Have you built a life to die for this episode? We're talking to author Karen Sammelson, who's sold over two million books worldwide. She is the guru of gurus. We're going to also talk about or ask the question, do you need a penis to succeed in business if you're an author or soon to be author or want to be author? At the end of this episode, Karen's going to give you an amazing tip.
Ladies and gentlemen, I present my good friend, Miss Karen Sammelson. Ladies and gentlemen, welcome back to another exciting episode of Mic on Plug and today I have someone who's been on my bucket list for a long time. So I'm truly honored. She took a career leap from Madison Avenue to the mindfulness arena with over two million books sold and science back tools that stick. She's redefine self help for the modern soul. Join me in saying hello to the witty, the wise, the wonder focused my friend,
Miss Karen. Hi, it's so great to be here. I've been so excited to talk to you. I love it. I love it watching you listening to you. Everything you're doing here. I'm truly honored. You've been someone
that I follow for a while. You have some of the most amazing books that I've read. You're like that mentor that you probably don't know that you are for millions of people. So I genuinely wanted to say thank you for what you've done for the self help arena or for women having voices. Just truly thank you for the soul that you are. Thank you. Thank you. It means extra coming from you. Thank you so much.
Well, that's awesome. That's awesome. So, Karen, I'd like to start the show by asking my guests about what their be cause is, right? Like Simon Senate did start with why and I like you need to start with why but I think you're fueled by your be cause that deeper purpose, that deeper drive. So, if I were to say Karen, what is your be cause? What is that?
Because I've been in potholes and I want to make sure other people don't wind up in potholes. I don't want to make sure that they walk around the potholes, avoid the streets with potholes, heal from potholes, recognize a pothole to be a pothole because sometimes potholes don't look like potholes. So, that's my be cause. I love that so much and I want to talk about those potholes, right? So, it's one thing to see the pothole, another thing to be in the pothole, but Karen, you've come out of them. And now you know what they
look like and how to avoid them. But when did this start for you? Like, let's talk through some of those journeys of the potholes that you had to get out of. Well, I'll go way back, but I'm on coffee so I can go through it quickly. Let's go way back. But when I was a kid, I was always interested in psychology
and humor. My mom used to pick up my dad in the train station and there was a little magazine shop across the street and I go in and I get one psychology day magazine and one mad magazine, which is like funny magazine. And I kind of think if you took my, if you look at my books, if you took psychology day at mad magazine, put them in a blender, press, press, for a pair, you get my books. So, and the reason why I was interested in both of those, first of all, I always love humor. It's just kind of how my brain works. But I had a family member that I knew who was very unhappy
and I was wanting to figure out how to make them happy. And that actually was the reason why I started really want to understand psychology, what makes people happy and what makes people not happy. Yeah. And so I learned it as a kid for that reason. And then I just stayed intrigued by human behavior because I did have challenges my own life. So I always kept going back to psychology.
And I used to read so many self-help books and was embarrassed to read them. I used to rip off the covers and read them, you know. And then I wanted to recommend them to friends. And I realized that that could come off the wrong way. If I said here, you need to read this. So I felt like there should
be like self-help for people that wouldn't be caught dead during self-help or self-help that you could give to a brand as a gift. And they're not going to punch you because it looks kind of cool and fun to read. You know. And that was how I wound up writing my first best-selling self-help book, although I don't even like the word self-help, how to be happy, damn it. Which had the word damn it in the title, which my agent tried to talk me out of. But I just kept moving
forward. I could see it. I could see the whole book from beginning to end. It has stylized graphics. I believe that I love design too. And like a spoonful of eye candy helps the self-help
medicine go down. The book is like looks fun and interesting. Instead of hiding the book, you want to put it on your coffee table. You're proud to be reading it. So that's sort of how I formulated my first of a series of books like this, The How to Be Happy, The Fact is a weird claim to be. But I think I'm the first author to put a naughty word in a book title,
especially a personal development author. Oh yeah. But back then, that was part of the reason my agent thought I was crazy, like damn it in a self-help book. But people feel damn it. Like feel it. Like that's how you feel. There's a lot of damn it. So how to be happy, damn it, felt very
how I felt a lot of times about, you know, nowadays we call it positive toxic positivity, right? So I don't do that. I do like real talk about it. And that book came about, it was sort of a collection of things because I read from all different areas. I read from psychology, which I've mentioned, but I also love to read Eastern philosophy, Western philosophy, biology, even how the brain works, neuroscience, quantum physics. But what I'm capable of doing
is reading the boring, dense stuff, and then rewriting it in simple terms with humor within in the past stylized graphics, although my newest book doesn't have graphics in it. It just has the humor merged with the psychology and philosophy. I love it. I love it. You know, Karen, you have one of my favorite mantras. And you actually, by saying this,
help me overcome something. And you say a lot of times that you need to be your own best friend. Yes. I would love for you to break that mantra down and why that philosophy means so much, not just to you, but why other folks should take that on. Well, I believe for many reasons that the world is like a mirror, that the more you love yourself, the more you'll create circumstances that mirror back a loving environment around you.
Because you will do that. A lot of people think of it as more like quantum physics, you know, like law of attraction. But I also say it as psychology, that what you believe you deserve, you create a life like that. And there's a term in psychology called masochistic equilibria, which is really interesting. And it's based on if you grew up in a home with about 30% love and 70% pain, then that becomes your masochistic equilibrium, what you think you deserve, love, why? So if you're not careful, it's not the definition, but it's the programming
that's gone in. And then you will recreate circumstances that match the 30% love, 70% pain. And if you wind up with 90% love, 10% pain, if you're not aware of self-aware person, and if you're not treating yourself like your own best friend, then you will do things to self sabotage, to bring the love down, down, down, down, down, to your masochistic equilibrium that you were programmed with of 30% pain, 30% love, 70% pain. So you have to get out of autopilot, get out of the default, and learn how to love yourself, learn how to be your own best friend. So you can recreate, we repeat what we don't repair. And so you have to go in and do the repair and get out, a lot of it's about
getting out of autopilot. A lot of us are in autopilot and, you know, taking control of the wheel of your life, you know? No, I totally agree. And for me, why I also needed that of being my own best friend, is there a lot of times you count on people that don't show up, right? And they don't not show up on purpose, but someone could be going through a bad time or bad situation when you're also going through something and you need that person, but that person can't help you because they're also going through. And so it made me understand that I have to love myself first. I have to be my support system
first. And then that can then allow me to be that for other people. You know, my mentor Les Brown has a saying of, don't be a go to person for people you can't go to, right? It's really what, yeah. And I take that saying with your saying and it's like, Mick, love yourself first. And then more importantly, make sure the people that are receiving your energy
could also give you energy back. And so I'd love your take on that too with just the energies of people and the give and take that that. Yeah, well boundaries are actually a symbol of self worth, self love, self care. So it's valuing yourself enough more than people pleasing your way to misery quite frankly. So but it all starts with self work and self love. And owning that for
yourself. Yeah, yeah, totally amazing, totally amazing. Let's talk about a couple of other books of yours. Okay. I know the, I'm trying, I don't want to mess up the title. But yes, you asked the question
for businesses a little time ago. Well, you're bringing up that one with another naughty word. Okay. Yeah. And and essentially the question was, do you need to have a penis to lead or run or own a business? And I know that wasn't the exact title. But it's also one of my favorite books.
Oh, thank you. I love to talk through this book because it is for family members, for my wife, for a lot of my friends, it was a book that helped them say, wait a second, I can be in charge. I do have so you gave a voice to the voiceless. I knew that you knew that when you're writing that book, but I'd love to talk about that. Thank you. Thank you. Yeah, that book was loved by a lot of big
important business women from Donna, Donna Karen, Teril teen labor, and like a lot of big business women. But I'll tell you the story of that book. I started my career in advertising and I rose up pretty quickly. I got a Clio my first year in the business, which is sort of like the enemies of advertising or whatever. And then I became like a senior VP creative director at my late 20s. And then I quit to my parents horror to become a novelist. My first book that I wrote
was actually a novel that I sold to St. Martin's Press and then to Miramax to be a movie star at Marissa Tomei. So I was starting to be asked to give seminars to women's organizations to help women to pursue and snag their passions because that's why I left advertising. I wanted to write books. So I was giving one of my seminars to women, which had a normal title. I don't even remember what
the title was because normal can sometimes be not memorable. Right. So and I said, my agent called me. This is back in the 90s. And my agent called me and I said, I can't talk. I have to give and I
said it as a joke. I have to give my how to succeed in business without a penis seminar. Press, there's a play and maybe it was a book first, but how to succeed in business without really trying is the name of at least I know it's a musical play. I think. And so she laughed and she said, you must write a business book with women for women with that name. And I thought she was joking, but she stayed
on it with me. And then I did it became big bestseller. And I went across the world and sold in different countries. I was shocked because the title was feisty, but it sold in countries you would not think would have a sense of humor about it so much so that I went around the world getting seminars from that book. And I joke, but it's true that I learned how to say penis in about 11 different languages because they all translated the book. And then people have a sense of humor. I started,
can I be a little feisty here? I don't know. Of course. Okay. I used to jokingly refer to them as my seminars jokingly. And because I'm, you know, I just find here and things, you know. And one of my
underlying premises of the book is a woman doesn't need a penis to succeed just balls. And then I even wrote a follow up called ball Z because when I look at everything that's happened to me in my life, it's happened because I was ballsy. And I wrote that book and that book also did very well. And it's so funny, I was looking at the cover for that book before it went to print and they asked me to get advanced praise for it. And I was just going to go back to the usual people, usual suspects. And
then I thought the book is called ball Z. I'm going to be ballsy and see who I could get to write some blurb sport that I don't even know. So I reached out to Seth Godin, who I don't know if you know who he is, a huge book writer, amazing brilliant man. And he wrote me back and he met me for coffee at a Starbucks, gave me a blurb, became a friend. And then I reached out to keep for Razzi. Anyway,
the book, the title of the book made me want to be more ballsy, which then helped my career further because really a lot of the things that I've gotten in life was not because I was like a 100% person given 100% of it. It was because I was 150% person. I would go above and beyond. And that really is something that women have to do. And in fact, that book could work for men too. But it was about
a rallying cry for women that, you know, to go out there and ask for what you want. Yeah. So let's go deeper there for a second. For the viewer listener right now, that's like, yeah, I hear Karen, and I do need to sort of be risky to be ballsy to step out to take that leap of faith. What are some things that they can do in that business or even if it's in their life? What
are some things that they could do now to prepare themselves to take those risks or to be ballsy, as you say? Well, what I feel like you have to do is stop staring at what could go wrong and stare at what what, right? So I sort of liken it to if I was walking across a bridge, like, well, make it like graders have lost arc. I haven't said this in the allergy in a while. So now I have to refresh my memory of it. And there's all these like alligators beneath me. But there's like a pot of gold at the
end of this bridge. If I stare at the alligators that could like, you know, gobble me up if I fail, then I'm most likely going to fall. But if I keep my eye on the prize of the pot of gold, I'm going to get across that bridge. So that is what I did when I wrote my first book, my novel, I would go to bookstores and my last name is Salmonson. And I would envision my book on the bookshop. And Salmonson was going to be next to a salinger, JD Salinger. And that
we were really excited that I had a good neighbor for my novel. I was going to be next to Salinger Salmonson. And I would do things like that. And I would also stay focused, like on books like when I wrote my bounce back book, which was hard for me to write. Because sometimes I write books after I fell into a pot hole. And that book was about resilience, how to say resilience, how to bounce back.
And it helped me to kind of sometimes writing for me is cathartic and its therapy. And writing the book then changes me. I try to analyze this from a victim story to a victor story. Because now I'm writing the book of how I got through it. And it means that I have to show up as somebody who got through it. And I can't go back, sneak back to that curled up in a ball place, you know. And it was hard
to write because I had to revisit some of what I had gone through. But I kept focusing on people need to read this book. This book is going to help people. And then I would envision on my book tour, people coming up to me and hugging me and thanking me for writing this book. And it got me to keep writing the book and not letting any of my fears or even creative block get in the way.
Because I got my stuff re-excited and re-re-excited. This book is going to help people. And on my book tour, it was so interesting. People did come up and hug me just like I had visualized. And it felt really good. I was like, I'm so glad I pushed through any creative blocks, any doubts, any of
like, oh my God, I can't write those moments because the book did help people. And so, envision keeping your eye on any of those golden treasures at the end that will help people that, whatever it is that gets you to keep going, whatever your cause is, I guess. Yeah. And actually, one of the pillars of I have something called the Mick Factor that Les Brown gave me. So it's the initials of my name, MICK. And the K is keep going, which is something
that you and I both have in common because I know you talk a lot about emotional resilience. And why that is so important. Can you talk to the listeners and viewers about emotional resilience and why that should be a go-to strategy, a go-to trait that you have? Because life is nothing but curveball. We knew it was going to come right down the plate fastball every time. We could get up
and swing, right? But life is curveball. Definitely. Definitely. Well, okay, two things. I think
metaphors help people. Back when I was younger, I don't do this anymore. I used to run around Central Park. And it's a very long run. I used to see how many times I could get around it back when I was younger in my kick ass shape. And I used to tell myself, I just need to get to that next treat.
I just need to get to that next sign that I see ahead. I have to get to that next bench. And I would make small markers for myself because if I told myself, I have to run around this park three times. I'd be like, oh my God, that's too much. I can't do that. But just set little markers
for yourself. And when I was doing that, I thought, oh, I got to do that with business too. Just have to write one chapter. I just have to do it. So if you break it up in small, little biteable chewable steps like that, then you're more likely to do it. The other thing is a tool that I use
stale today, which is what I call a stop and swap tool. And I mentioned this in my new book, my new book called You're To Die For Life. This is one of my favorite tools. And it's so simple. It really is. If you want to stop a thought or stop a habit, you can't just stop it. You have to do a
stop and swap. And I'll give you an example because examples work, we have dogs. One of them is a little bit naughty, Pablo. He's a naughty dog. And he's always like chewing on a sneaker, chewing on a slipper. And if I only remove the slipper and put it back down, he would go back
to the slipper because he's anxious. He's doing out of anxiety. And his brain needs, it's actually his brain. His brain needs something to chew on. So I have to do a stop and a swap. I have
to give him something healthy to chew on instead, like a bone. We're like that. When we're anxious, our brains need something to chew on. And it will keep going back to the negative thought, unless you put in something healthier to think about because the brain needs something to chew on. So if you're thinking, nobody likes me, you have to swap in the right people like me.
Or if you're thinking, this will never happen for me. You have to swap in the thought, everything has its process. I must trust the process. Or whatever it is, you have to do a stop and a swap, not just try to stop the thought. That's an amazing analogy. I like that. That was very
clear. And you know, you're helping me with the segue because next I was going to your new book. So let's talk about the new book and some of the principles that you released in there, because one of the things that I love about all of your books, that is full of principles and standards in guide. So let's talk about the new one. Okay, my new one is called You're to Die for Life.
And yes, it has the word die in the title. And it does touch upon death. I think that mortality awareness is not more that it's motivating if you use it right. Because mortality awareness gives you urgency. You realize life is short. It's fleeting. And that urgency creates action. It
inspires you to move forward. I wrote this book. I joke, I have two reasons why I wrote this book. The first one's funny. I'll tell you the funny one first. I did not write this book because I had a
near death experience. I wrote this book because I had a near life experience. And I made up that term, but there had to be a word for this because too many of us are having your life experiences. And what I mean by near life is experiences. You're on autopilot or you're on your phone or scrolling so much, you're not fully in your life, you're near your life, you're like the Jason or you're out to dinner with a friend. And they're talking and instead of really focusing on them, you're worrying about
something in the future or you're ruminating about something in the past and you're not fully present. So again, a near life experience, you're not fully in life. And the third kind of near life experience is where you keep putting things off to someday or later. And again, you're not fully in your life, you're near your life, you're going later, later, you're not in this moment if you keep putting things off to someday. And I woke up to the truth that I was having your life experiences when my dad died. So he was my wake up call his death. Death is an excellent alarm clock. And I
realized I was putting a lot of things off to someday. I realized that I was working so hard, which was not exactly fully noticeable because I loved what I was doing, but noticeable enough that I kept saying someday I will start a family someday. And then when he passed, I realized it was very, it was very hard to realize this that my dad would never get to see me as a mom because I didn't have a family yet. My dad would never get to meet my child. And I, his death was more of a wake up call to my own biological plot to, okay, I need to have more balance in my life. And I read
through a lot because I go into research mode a lot, a lot of the topper gruts at the dying. And what I was dealing with, a lot of people deal with one of the topper gruts at the dying is I wish I hadn't worked so hard. I wish that I'd lived a life more true to myself. I wish I'd spent more time with the people that I love. I, you know, all there's a bunch of them. So I looked at each the topper
gruts at the die and I reversed engineered them to make sure that I wouldn't have them. And I also created a whole system, which I write about in the book that woke me up and I had my, I had a child thanks to the system. In fact, my dad died on August 27, four years later, after like embracing weariness and waking up my life and shaking up my life, four years later, on August 27, I gave birth to my now son. And so my dad's step is my son's birthday. And I credit mortality awareness for putting the fire under my tush. And remind me, I don't want to die with those
requests. It's time to snap into action. And one of the tools I used was I wrote my own eulogy. Wow. Wow. That is deep, Terry. That is deep. And I make it, I put it in the book, but I know a lot
of people are like, right, my own eulogy. What? Like, you know, like it's, so I make it fun. But fill in the blank template, like Madlives, where you just fill in the blanks to write your own eulogy. Yeah. I'm going to give you a little spoiler alert here, even still read the book due to the template.
A lot of the blanks have to do with core values. It's about who you are, because I believe from my background and behavioral change, that identity is destiny. Yes. You think you are determines what you do. Like, Frank Sinatra saying, do be, do, be, do, great tune. But that's
backwards thinking personal development. It should be be do, be, do, be, do, it's who you think you are. Your identity is the puppet master for your habits. And we're, we're operating like that now, whether we know it or not. If you walk around thinking, I am sloppy, you're going to do the habits, the sloppy person. If you think I am organized or I'm healthy, I'm athletic, it's why,
it's why people that go to the gym can sometimes still keep going to the gym, because they think I am athletic or I am just when they're thinking those thoughts. And it's why sometimes it's hard to start a new habit like that. It's also why the rich, that expression, the rich get richer. They already think of themselves as rich. So then, you know, so you have to change your identity first and foremost. So one of the strategies in the book is to help people to create identity based habits,
to become the person they write about in their eulogy, to go from current you to aspirational eulogy. And I help people do this on a daily basis, because I think that we shouldn't just write to do lists. We should write what I call to die list. And that's not a bucket list. I'll tell you what a to die list is. I believe that to do lists have a fatal flaw.
They're about productivity. Everything they say, we've worshiped productivity. It's too much already with the productivity. I could do everything on my to do list. And it ended my life feel like I wasted my life, because a to do list is just about like, like productivity habits. And it doesn't include
things that make a life meaningful. You won't see things like on your to do list like speak up with with more authenticity about how I feel or be present for my loved ones and put down my frick and phone or you're not going to see things that really make for a meaningful life. So what I have people do, right? Still write your to do list. That's fine. But the truth is, nobody's going to read
your Google calendar at your funeral. Nobody's going to read your LinkedIn profile at your funeral. You know what you're going to say at your funeral when they eulogy you? They're going to tell stories about you. I remember I was sick and he showed up with soup. I remember when I was going through
troubling time, they were patient and they sat with me. And all of these stories have to do with four values. They were kind. They were patient. They were communicative. They were present. All core
values. All of the stories that people will share about you and remember about you and love you for will be will be about something that had to do with the fact that you embraced strong core values. Who I help you to live a life where you're embracing strong core values. I am loving. And so I always show up present for the people that I love. And I have people write every day the following question.
I had a lot of tools in the book, but this is my quick summary of it. Who do I need to become to get everything I want in my life and answer core values? Because you think about like, where am I going wrong a little? And you can also reverse it like this. Who do I need to become to stop fighting with my partner so much? Who do I need to become? To have my son share openly and
honestly about what's troubling and so we feel closer. Who do I need to become to write that novel? Who do I need to be business next to? And then the answer is always core values. I need to be more disciplined. I need to be more patient. I need to be more compassionate. And then you have to think
about that. And then you attach a habit. And so I do. And that's what goes on your morning to dial us. That's amazing. So for all the viewers, all the listeners, that's something that we can start doing
now. Right. And I'm going to challenge everyone to do that now. And then what I want you to do, and Karen, I want you to tell people where to find and follow you, I want you to message Karen and I together and give us a couple of things that are on your list. Is that fair, Karen?
I love that. Absolutely. I want to see what everybody's doing. So Karen, where can people do that? Where can people find and follow you? Thanks. Well, my name is Karen Salmanson and
everybody mangles my last seven not salmon. So I'm always going not salmon, not salmon, not salmon, not salmon. So that's how you can find me. My Instagram not salmon, Facebook not salmon, sub stack, sub stack.com slash not salmon, my website not salmon. Although my book is called You're To Die For Life. And I gave this book its own website where you can get lots of freebies on
there. And that's called your to die for life.com. So if you want to find out more about this specific book with more tools in it to help you to live more meaningful life, just go to your to die for life.com. We're going to do that. I'm going to make sure that all of those are in the show notes in description. Karen, I got to get you out of here on my top five quick five rapid fire. You ready?
Okay. All right. What's your morning mantra? What's something that you can't start the day without doing? I am smarter than this problem. I'm stronger than this problem. I'm more resilient than this problem.
Whatever it is. Yeah, I tell myself that. Love it. Love it. What's a book besides one of yours, this changed your life. It's a bet in book of living and diet. Oh, I'm going to go get that.
I'm going to go get that. Your favorite guilty pleasure comfort food. Oh gosh, I'm thinking of so many. I think chocolate mint ice cream. Okay. Okay. Okay. Got you. I do. I love that. If your life
was a theme song, what would that song be? I was about to say Gloria Gaynor, I will survive, but that's probably just because I put that up with an Instagram post recently. But oh, Alexa Marset, you live, you learn that one. I love that one. Yeah. I love that one.
And for the aspiring writer, what's one tip that you give them to sell books? No to sell books? Yeah. To think about your bacons at the table. But also about who your audience is.
And here's a weird one. It sort of answers you, but it's a little bit slightly different. That when I write, sometimes I envision one person reading it because I realized whenever I finish a manuscript and send it to my agent after I press send, I would then go back and read it again. And I'd see it differently because I was envisioning her reading it, or if I would send it to my friend Bonnie and press send, I would picture her reading it. I would notice things more. And so if you go
back and you think about different people reading it, you notice things in it and you want to fix it a little. I notice that sometimes when I was writing my books that I just think, okay, what will Bonnie think of this? Like, like, how does this land with somebody? So I mean, that was something that I would do on purpose because I was doing it by accident. And I also write books in different places.
So because of my brain thinks differently, like, I don't just work at home. I work in cafes or I change the room I'm in or I go outside, I take a chapter, I put it in my phone, I sit on a bench, and I read it from my phone. I always notice different things in it. So that's what I'm trying to do. Always notice different things in it by picturing it from how different people would read it and read reading the manuscript before I send it out to, you know, to send it to a publisher.
So the book shows up at its best. Amazing. Karen, I know how busy you are. You're one of my favorite people in the world. Just so honored, he took some time with us today out of your busy schedule. It means the world to me. So I just want to, again, from my heart tell you thank you for who you
are. Oh, thank you. This means extra once again coming from you. I love Adore and Respeccio. Amazing, amazing. And for all the viewers and listeners, remember your because is your super
power. Go on, Lisa.