Bible John

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Ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha. Precisely. There it is. Precisely like a garage.

So I think we don't have a whole lot to get to today before we jump into the case, which the case this week is Bob and John. I know I'm pretty excited for this. Yeah, it's like a little continuation of Peter Tobin because it connects. We had a lot of people from the UK and from all around the area being like, yay, I'm glad you're covering this because it's huge here.

So I'm so glad that you guys are psyched about it and that I didn't ruin things or screw up things. I love to me. And also I think the last couple of days on social media, like on our Instagram, we've been asking people to give us ideas for Halloween costumes for us. And first of all, you've all had amazing ideas.

You guys are killing it with the ideas. Yeah. And keep it coming. Like we are loving it because there's a reason we're asking for these ideas.

Let's look at telly-all. We can't tell you. Yeah, but we're going to hopefully tell you I think the coming week or so? Yeah, I think not.

I want to say not this coming week but the week after. Yeah, I mean, we'll let you know. We'll let you know. We actually don't really.

We actually have no idea. It's going to be very soon though because Halloween is next month. Yeah, so we're going to tell you very soon it's exciting. We can't wait.

We can't wait to utilize some of these ideas. And if you didn't get on Instagram to hit us up with your Halloween idea, we'll do another post. Yeah, we'll be like, what do you think? Yeah.

So you can throw in what you think because you guys are so creative and amazing that I just love it. Yeah, somebody said that because we asked specific things like, oh, what game of thrones things to me? And somebody said one of us should be a dragon and the other should be a dire wolf. That was a great one.

I loved that one. It was just so good. It was so perfect. So keep them coming.

And I think the only other thing we wanted to mention was a new merch in the merch store. Yippee! So we did a design that captured both of our essences. It was a mixture of both of us.

Yeah, like a scalpel and a pair of sheers. So there's a tarot card one. There's a Ouija board one. So there's a lot of cool stuff.

And you can go check that out at shop.morbidpodcast.com. And of course, we will be adding more stuff all the time. Yes, I know switching it up. A lot of people want to see about ponies and some people are still asking for that.

People are still asking for rhinestone but some guests. Oh my god, yes. I just want to see the merch companies face when we ask for that. So can we have this?

We were just actually wondering if you could bring that on the butt. Could you be a be desolate for us and appreciate it. Thank you. That's not going to happen.

But we'll give it a shot, guys. Let's try it. We love you. We'll do what we can for you.

We want to give you the world. We can give you the world, but dazzled with rhinestones. We'll do it. There you go.

So I think without further ado, let's talk about the battle. So we connected him from last week or last episode, because a lot of people think that Bible John, who is technically an unsolved case, a lot of people think that he is Peter Tobin. A lot of people think that they solved it. They think they solved it.

I don't know. I'm not sure. I can see both sides of it. You're not in a place.

I'm not convinced. I'm not convinced. I feel like we actually got a couple of emails from different UK listeners. More people said they didn't think that Peter Tobin was Bible John, but we did get a couple that said they were convinced that he was.

It's interesting to see what everybody thinks. But you're with the majority. I'm with the majority. I'm with the majority.

I'm standing firmly with them right now. Like I said in last episode, he's known as Scotland's Zodiac Killer. I know it's crazy. He's infamous.

Obviously, it's unsolved as of yet. Also, a lot of people don't know if these are three murders that are connected to him. A lot of people don't know if these three murders are technically the same person. Are they different?

Not really, but there's a lot of people think that the first one that we'll talk about obviously first is kind of a one-off that happened. And then the two that followed were copycat. Okay. But I don't know.

I think it's the same person. When I look at it, to me, it seems like the same person. So just to clarify, you think that it's the same person that committed these three murders but you don't believe it's me. But it's not the future of it.

Exactly. Let me spell that out for myself. You're also awake. Let me catch myself up here.

So the first murder was in Glasgow, Scotland. It was on February 22, 1968. So his first victim was Patricia Docker. She was 25 years old.

She was a nurse at the time. She had brown hair, brown eyes. She was considered very pretty. She was pretty, she was just adorable.

She was also married but was separated from her husband and starting a divorce. Well, Patricia, her husband was in the military. They had one child together, a four-year-old boy. And while they were going through the whole divorce proceeding, she was living with her parents with her son.

And this evening, February 22, she decided to go out to the Barrowland Ballroom, which we mentioned in the first of the other episodes, where the dances were going on. This is where it's a dance hall. So this is just like, you know, kind of like just somewhere you would go to like have a night out. And she was leaving around 6.30ish that night.

And she was going to be going to their 25 and over singles night. I think it was like on Thursday nights. Oh my God, that sounds like fun but also horrible. Well, here's the thing.

So at this time in Glasgow, I mean, dance halls in particular were like Hoppin'. Yeah, Glasgow was Hoppin'. It was like the OG like club. It was lots of dance clubs, lots of bars, lots of night life going on.

The Barrowland Ballroom was located in the East End. It was fairly popular, but not popular for the greatest reasons. Not popular because it was this really high end place to go. And like, it was kind of a place where a lot of married people would go to cheat on their, you know, carry on affairs.

Yeah. It was basically just a pick up joint. Cool, cool. Like you went there for that specific reason.

Every city has one. Yeah. You got to have one. I think the majestic ballroom was like maybe like a notch higher than the Barrowland Ballroom, but it was kind of a similar vibe to it too at this time.

Okay. So there definitely was a couple in the area that were like this, but I guess the Barrowland land Ballroom was like pretty well-ological. Right. And then the single nights on Thursdays were known as the time when people that were married came out.

Oh, the woodworks. Like just coming out to try to cheat on their spouses. Wow, that's horrible. They were also a lot of older women that would attend these, like older like Cougars.

I was going to say like Cougars, if you will. Yes, I will. So I won't. So that in an article I read on the Daily Record, they labeled this night, like a lot of people would call it grab a granny night.

Shut the fuck up. Grab a granny night. I'm out. Grab a granny night.

That's a fucking hilarious. Get out to the Barrowland Ballroom and grab a motherfucking granny. See that I feel like as a 25-year-old, I wouldn't be going to grab a granny night. I feel some competition with the older gals.

Nabbin' nah night. Nabbin' nah night. Oh my god. I'm trying to think about it.

Move with a me-ma night. Did you hear that? I did it. I did it right in the cuff over there.

I could show you. I'm like trying to think. It's too gloomy. It's too gloomy.

Maybe that's why I'm inspired. I'm like, Coloom gets me go. So yeah, so grab a granny night. Move with a me-ma night.

That's my face. So that is where she went this particular night to grab a granny night. Not a granny herself, not to grab a granny herself. But she was, you know, she was 25 years old.

You got to go to the 25 and older singles. And she was in the process of getting divorced. So I'm sure she was like, just trying to get back out there. Well, I'm sure it wasn't all manners and grandpas.

Yeah, I think it was just trying to get back out there. She was trying to, she was like, you know what? Maybe, and you know, I'm sure going through something like a divorce. You just need to go.

Obviously I'm not going through one. But I can imagine it's a traumatic experience, no matter what. You loved it at person at some point. Yeah.

And it's like, you probably feel a little like knocked down a peg. Yeah. You want to get some attention and feel like you're, you know, like, get some attention from a vibe for someone else. And you want to be someone else, you know.

And this did cause some issues later in the investigation when everything happens because initially her parents thought she had gone to the Majestic. This is a paid ad by BetterHelp. If you've been feeling overwhelmed, stuck, anxious or unsure, that's okay. Those feelings are more common than we think.

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H-E-L-P.com. So the following day, her body was found. Oh, Patricia. No one had read like she left the club and that was it.

No one started again until the next morning. Yeah. She was found naked, saved for one shoe on her foot. She was found near her home in Langside Place and she was found by a man on his way to work.

Oh, God. That'll help you day up. And I guess she was placed near his garage so he was just like, oh, okay. Her clothes and her purse were missing completely.

She was very close to her parents home like yards away. Yeah. So this made a lot of people think like she must have been on her way home and was attacked because why would she be so close to home? Or maybe that's a coincidence?

That's the thing. It's like, was it coincidental? Mm-hmm. That like he happened to dump her really close to her home or...

And you know what? Already I'm thinking not Peter Tobin because Peter Tobin took these girls to his home. Exactly. And he hid them after.

Right. He was like a high-dish it. Right. He didn't like to display it out.

Bible John, if you see, is known for display. For display. See, that's a totally different. Yeah.

Exactly. Exactly. I've learned a thing or two. You have.

You really have. And you know, you're on my same page here. I love it. But yeah, the proximity to her house really can't be ignored.

That's just a coincidence. There has to be something to it. No. So she was on her back and this is interesting.

Her sanitary pad was next to her on the ground. Mm-hmm. Because yes, all three of Bible John's victims happened to be menstruating at the time of their death. That's interesting.

Because it's like, how would he have known that? Exactly. And we're going to get into that. Because in their pads, we're placed on or near them.

Oh, that's interesting. So he made a show of this. Right. Which is interesting.

And we're going to talk about it later because I have some theories about it. That's like when we talked about the Papine sisters. Yeah. I don't know why I said it like that.

Papine. Papine. The menstrual blood. It definitely means something.

Mestral blood isn't just... It's not just... It's not just... Let me tell you.

It's never just menstrual blood. It isn't. Anyone who's ever menstruated can tell you it's not just menstrual blood. I don't want some more.

Maybe it's menstrual blood. Maybe it's maybe you never know. I don't know. Maybe she's born with it.

She was. She definitely was. We all were. So her head was also in a position.

Like it seemed like he had put it looking to her right side. It didn't look like it was just falling that way. It was like she was looking at her pad. Oh.

Yeah. Which is just strange. Her head and face were beaten very severely. Oh no.

She had marks on her neck that indicated strangulation by some ligature. It was later determined that the cause of death was indeed strangulation. And it was also revealed that she had been raped. Oh no.

She hadn't returned home the following morning after she left for the baroline ballroom. Her parents reported her missing right away. They had no idea that because she was found the next morning. Remember, they already found this woman.

The police had no idea that that was their daughter. Oh no. So when they called the police and reported her, they were like, oh, like they found the woman. Which is really sad.

Yeah. Of course, police went searching for answers because there was nothing going on at this crime scene that could tell them really anything. Right. He took basically all the evidence with him.

I mean he left some DNA because he left semen in a lot of the. I was just going to ask you that. I'm just not. But at the time in the 60s, they could collect it.

They just couldn't do anything with it. And one neighbor told investigators that she had heard a woman scream, leave me alone that night before, but that's all they got. And it's like, why didn't they call the police? I would definitely call the police if I heard somebody scream, leave me alone.

Like I don't know. Like my dumb ass would be like, I'm out. Like, let's go save her. Yeah.

Like if you hear someone screaming, leave me alone, just call the police. Like someone. I don't know. Try something.

Go help her. Just go risk your life. Do it. Be a hero.

Don't you want to be? I don't know. It's just like when you hear that, I do something and you call someone other than just like, oh, it's a friend. I don't know.

People, man. 50-50. Early I said that she had told her parents she was going to the majestic ballroom. And that I didn't hurt the investigation.

Yeah. Well, that's because now they were going and interviewing all the employees at the majestic. And they were like, yeah, we didn't see her. And they were like, yeah, we don't know.

And they really dug in and tried to get any witness accounts or sightings of who she may have left with, who she may have danced with that night, which were there. No one here. So it was a colossal waste of time. So it was like weeks, like a couple of weeks that they were focusing on the majestic and that wasn't it.

Right. Her purse was eventually found, not her clothing, but her purse was eventually found in the river cart. And then they were thrown in the river. Is that close by?

It was close by. It seemed like they must have just thrown it out on their way, however they were going. This would be the first of three murders, like I said for Bible John. All three were raped.

All three were strangled either with their stockings or by his hands or they think that patricia may have been strangled by a belt. Oh. But it was never like, it was always a ligature. Yes.

All three were menstruating at the time. That's strange. Yeah. And all had the sanitary towels left on or near them.

And then all three of the girls handbags were missing. And the contents were just discarded. They were either discarded like near them, somewhere else, but then the handbags were gone. They only found that one handbag.

Weird. So the next one was August 15th, 1969. So that was a year and a half later. So that's a pretty long cooling off.

Which is why a lot of people think that first one is a one off and not the other two, but like there's other one like Jeffrey Dahmer. You're in a very long year. In a very long year. And a second one, there was like 15 years or something.

It was like a long time. Ted Bundy had a really long, cold, long period before he went fucking BTK while 30 years about doing nothing and then start trying to start again at least. I can't remember how a little bit of a cooling off didn't he? I think he did.

I think you're right. There's definitely examples of them taking time off. I mean, that is long, I will say. And who knows if he wasn't in prison for part of that?

Who knows? You know, people get sick, people get jobs that take up their time and they can't focus on it as much. Maybe you had kids. You don't know?

That first two years is busy. You just don't know. So the second one, like I said, a year and a half later, her name was Jemima McDonald's. She was 32 years old and she was a single mother of three.

Oh, God. So she went out to the barrel land ballroom with friends while her sister Margaret watched her children for her. The next day, she wasn't home. And her sister was getting really worried because she was like, she would have come home for her kids.

This just doesn't make sense. And she would have contacted us if she wasn't. So Margaret kind of asked around and was like, has anyone seen her? Have you heard from her?

And then she started hearing rumors this following day that people had seen these young kids, like little boys coming out of an abandoned tenement building on McKee Street and that's in Bridgton. And these little boys were talking about seeing a dead body in an abandoned house. She's like literally stand by me. The body vibes.

That's like a little boy's being like, you want to say your body. I'm like, what's up with all the little boys in this town? Because the early in the last episode you did, they were playing with the dead dogs head. They're playing football with the dead dogs head.

And then there's a little boys over there. Just boys being boys. Now boys will be boys. You know?

Just kidding. But yeah, this is like straight up stand by me. Body style. Yeah.

So she heard this and she's hearing these rumors and she's like, I don't know. I have a bad feeling. Yeah. So she went to sleep that night and she said all she could think about was that.

Oh, she still hadn't heard from her sister. And she's like, I got to know. Her kids are probably like asking for her. Well, and for the next month.

So the next morning, which was a Monday, she was her sister was so concerned. She went to that house. Oh, wow. Oh, I just got like chills.

Where she found her mom's battered body. Oh my God. She found her sister and she had a feeling she knew it. That's like that's some sister.

Right there and she found her sister in a fucking old abandoned tenement house after little kids were talking about seeing a dead body. Wow. Yeah, like that's some shit. Because I could have been anybody's body.

Yeah. Or she just knew it was like making shit up. That's what she was like. I would have been like little kids are weird.

Right. But she was lying face down on the ground. She was fully clothed but her clothing had tears and like rips and was all disheveled. Her stockings and shoes were placed next to her as well as her sanitary.

She had been beaten exactly like Patricia in her head and face. She was clearly strangled and had been raped as well. It was determined that her own stockings were used as the ligature to strangle her with. And they said always that the cause of death was strangulation.

It was never the beating in the head and face. It wasn't severe enough to kill them. Oh wow. But it's like, it's like to make a difference.

Yeah. They started, so the police started speaking with anyone that they could again and they're trying to get information since again not much of evidence is left on the scene except for semen which they found on the stockings and such. But they can't do anything with it. So her photo was actually put on the huge screen at the barrel and ballroom.

Oh wow. And because of this two witnesses came forward and were like, hey we can help because we remember seeing her. Oh good. And they were like, so they said they thought she came around 7pm and she was seen speaking with some random dude.

And they said this guy had a Glasgow accent. He was tall. He was slim. He had short red hair.

And he's always a fucking ginger. He's always a fucking ginger. As a ginger I'll say it. And around midnight the two of them were seen leaving together.

Shit. Oh. These witnesses were asked to work with a sketch artist to get a composite for the man and they did. It's not the famous sketch that everybody's seen, the one that we posted I think.

It's a different one. Okay. He does look similar to the other sketch but it's not that one. He just kind of looks like a guy.

There's really nothing that you'll just stick to. Oh I would know that guy. If I sound like it's just a guy. You can look like any guy.

Yeah. A lot of guys look like other guys. It's true. But a lot of people will be like oh Peter Tobin looks just like that.

And I'm like not really. First of all and second of all you could stick a lot of guys. You could probably stick Ted Bundy in there and force him to look like that. Yeah.

You know, it's just, I don't know. It just doesn't make sense. First some red hair on the first sketch didn't have red hair. Oh.

Because they didn't colorize it. So it's just like oh gotcha gotcha. A pencil sketch kind of thing. So it literally could look like anybody.

Right. That's cool too. On October 31st 1969. Halloween.

Halloween. This is Halloween. A man was walking his dog in a field and found a naked body of a woman. The woman was Helen Pudick or Pudick P-U-T-T-O-C-K.

Pudick. Pudick. Pudick. Talk.

Pudick. She was 29 years old. She was married and had two children. But I believe.

Exactly. There's differing accounts of if she was married at the time or if she was separated. Okay. So either way she had two children.

Interesting that they all may have been separated or divorced. Exactly. I actually say that later because it is an interesting little connection. I don't want to mess up anything that you're saying but I do have a theory going.

This guy has mommy issues. Oh yeah I'd say so. For sure. I'm not sure.

I'm knowing things. So she had been beaten in the face and head severely. She was raped, strangled with her own stockings. The contents of her handbag had been scattered nearby.

But the bag itself was missing. Her sanitary pad was put under her arm. Oh that's very interesting. That's weird.

There were grass stains on Helen's feet which investigators took to see that there was definitely a struggle which she maybe tried to get away. And they said she definitely fought and tried to escape her killer. She also had a deep bite mark on her leg. Oh wow.

Yeah. Very deadbundies. She had managed to tear off one of the killer's cufflinks and it was found at the scene. Oh wow.

That's great. And this is very interesting because in this is in regards to connecting it to Jemima's case especially because the man they had a sketch of and the one that witnesses saw her speaking with and dancing with that night, they said that he was one of the things they said about him was that he was dressed very nicely. And cufflinks early. And they said like a suit like Dapper's Fuck which was a very out of place for the venue.

Right. Barrelan Ballroom was not somewhere you came in your three piece suit. Like you said. So a cufflink seems right on par with this.

Her killer was dressed so nice he was wearing cufflinks. So these two connect to me. They asked around the area and one woman said she thought she heard screams. Good lady.

All the fucking po at least. But she said she couldn't be sure. So what? She was like I thought I heard screams.

But her normally sure. So after speaking to Helen's parents they learned that Helen went out to the Barrelan Ballroom with her sister Jean around 630 that night. Both Jean and her left the kids with Jean's husband because I believe that this is where I think Helen might have been separated because they left them with one husband. Both women met men there.

And they weren't doing anything wrong but like they like danced hung out with some people. Yeah. And they were kind of like hanging out with these men. And the man Helen was with said his name was John.

Okay. And Jean the sister said that this guy was tall slim with red a chair and was dressed very nicely. Mm hmm sounds like the guy. Does.

The other dude left. I want to point the guy that was talking to Jean the sister. Did they say it seemed like the two were friends? No.

They just met there. Just totally something. And John and the girls decided they were going to share a taxi back home. Because this is coming from her sister.

Her sister's an eyewitness here. Yeah. Like has hung out with this man. All that nuts.

And he talked about but did not directly quote the Bible. And he said he didn't like he was he kept talking about like religion and like morals and he told the women quote I don't drink at Hoggman a I pray. What's Hoggman a no idea. He also said that dance halls were dens of a equity.

Tomorrow either. And he also told a story like some Bible thing where the woman was stoned to death for like adultery or something. And he's telling the story and they were like cool. Like they were like this is weird now.

Yeah. And they're like that we shared this uber. And this is obviously how he earned the name Bible John. Don't share anything.

If I've learned anything in life don't do it. Gene said he really wanted gene dropped off first. Of course. He was assistant because he like talent and he said it was because Gene lived the furthest and he said he would he said he would she would have to be in the taxi alone if she was dropped off last which is a good point.

And he said he was worried about that he didn't want her left in the taxi alone. Fucking praying on people's. And it's so logical that you're like yeah. So she also remembered that he said his name was like Templeton Templeton or Emerson something that sounded like that.

Okay. She can remember exactly. She also said something like when he was speaking she noticed he had a tooth on the top right that kind of overlapped the one behind it like a snagglety. Don't you know it's so funny.

I thought that Peter Tobin kind of looked like my old stepdad and he had that. He did. You're right. Well, Jean was dropped off first because he wanted her to be and Helen was like I'm fine and Jean's like you know like she's in she this is where like Jean have her children.

Yeah. Oh so she was like I but I think she was like you know Helen was coming out with the. That's a gotcha. I got you sister.

Yeah like I'm just trying to give you some time you know because again I think she was recently separated too so I think it was like get a girl right now like I'm just gonna let you female empowerment of course Helen wasn't fine. So they this is you know the next morning she was found in fields they created a so Jean helped create a composite sketch. You imagine having to do that while you're also mourning the loss of I can't imagine. And this is the infamous sketch like the with the red hair and everything and again Jean shared a taxi with this guy and like most of the night with him so we can believe her description here.

Yeah and police now knew they had three connected cases because of everything we said now little side note at first I was I was starting to think like what they were actually calling this killer because they were like yeah these three cases are connected but serial killer wasn't a term until later as far as I knew holding coffee hold and not holding coffee hold and especially holding and stepped on the same thing. Oh you know hashtag Jonathan Groff so but then I did a little research of course you did and it may have been a term kind like before Robert Resler was actually credited for it in the 1980s but they hold in coffee up but then apparently way back in the 30s a guy named Ernst August Ferdinand Gannat. Hell yeah the director of the Berlin criminal police used the term I'm gonna butcher this and I apologize. Sarien Mortar in reference to the case of Peter Curtin who's the vampire of Dusseldorf we'll cover that.

Oh yeah that's a good one. And in English this roughly translates to series murderer. Right fascinating fascinating back in the 30s. Yeah I like that's interesting I don't know if they were referring to Bible John as a serial murderer at this point I like a series murderer you know like it's interesting to think about it I couldn't find anything of what they were at the following time.

You know I want to say they talk about that in what's the show that we always want to I think they talk about that they say something about series murder series murder. Yeah it used to be called that yeah it makes sense so it's cool that was a fun little fact a little bit back so a man matching the sketch was seen at 1.30 a.m. that night by another witness they said he was very disheveled because he had just beaten a woman he had scratches on his face because she fought like hell yep and he was headed from the bus to the Clyde Ferry that night because he was getting a lot of there which I can see why people are connecting it to Peter Tobin because that was kind of his MO too he did the deed then ran yeah but he also like brought them with him yeah exactly now tips started coming pouring in they were like they said something like 200 over 250 tailors were interviewed in the area because he was known to wear a suit right none of them could recognize him at all they're like I've never seen him a bunch of barbers like almost 500 barbers were because he had a very like like slick haircut they interviewed over 5,000 suspects wow got nothing wow over 100 detectives worked the case and they took over 50,000 statements so one thing I wondered was like did they interview the taxi driver I feel like maybe but also it might have been really hard to narrow him down but like when I don't know because it's like the certain time he picked her them up yeah you know for a cab cab how big is Glasgow I mean it's I don't know if that would affect it like I don't know if it's like they could find one like taxi driver in New York is like what I'm thinking yeah that's true but if it's like a certain like if it's like a certain company and I don't know if it's the same as I don't know this is your case I don't know so this is also when 16 police and investigators started staking out the Baraland ballroom trying to mesh with the crowd like dressing like you know under the inns and they were trying to see if they could spot this guy because obviously all three of them he met them at the Baraland ballroom that was his place they were led by detective superintendent Joe Beatty and Jean went with them sometimes the sister of Helen that must have been horrible I know I know and she always tried to help with like sketchups sketchups sketches lineups like all that shit she was always trying to help the case her to like to do that yeah she was always into it like till the day she passed away it remains unsolved I know that's so nuts yeah it's insane so some of the theories are that maybe he was in the military and went overseas and that's why because again it stopped right after that third murder it stopped and I'm sorry what year was that last murder was it 71 did you say no that last one was 1969 oh 69 okay where the fuck did I get 71 not sure but it's okay and I think you know maybe he's in the military maybe he went you know that's why it stopped maybe he was in prison for something else yeah or like you said he might have mommy issues and maybe he was being hidden right by a mommy right because it certainly seems like that could be the case it definitely that's the first thing I thought of now when it comes to the sanitary pads and menstruation like you were saying how would he know yeah well maybe his whole thing was he wanted to sleep with these women and that's why I was thinking and he would get pissed when he found out that they were menstruating and he freaked out and murdered them and he read the other but that's the thing some but maybe they were like I'm on my period we can't have sex and he would get pissed and then all the other times he would pick up women they weren't on their period so he would just have sex with them and leave yeah but these women who said no because I'm on my period probably got him angry it's kind of I don't know if this is super to say but it's interesting that they indeed were on their period because I can't be times have you been like a mommy period we can't yeah exactly so but it's like it seems like these ones were you know this is telling the truth and that's why he decided to make such a display out of it because it was the reason he was so angry actually that is like yeah because I can't really think of another there's no other way reason well I can't think of another reason why he would display the sanitary pads because I feel like it's almost like it was a fuck you to him and he made it a fuck you to them exactly that's the thing it enraged him that was the reason he couldn't sleep with them right so he would rape them and then display the pad like see I still got to do it yeah you know his like flag of like I did it yeah exactly which is disgusting so all the way you know forward in 1983 all of a sudden this dude came forward and was like whoa I used to go to the bareland ballroom all the time with my friend and I was reading the papers and for five years and for five years I was like wow this Bible John case is like really bad and wow that's crazy and then it hit me that this guy was totally my friend I went to the bareland ballroom was took you a while there buddy and now apparently this dude who is not named anywhere was living in the Netherlands and was married and nothing really came up this so just weird this guy just came forward and was like I think it's my friend and they were like okay and then I was maybe they looked into his friend they must have looked into it and like yeah you're del he's never been named so that was just interesting because it seemed like it was gonna be a big break and then it was nothing yeah now during the murder spree people in the area thought that the Bible John was this guy named John Irvine McInnes he was related to another suspect that was looked at and he kind of fit the bill why of what it was well in 1980 unfortunately though he completed suicide at the age of 41 and he had done it by cutting his brachial artery which is in your upper arm that's right which is like a very random way to do it yeah so in 1996 they exhumed his body yeah and they exhumed him for his DNA because they were gonna compare it and they compared it to the demon found I broke the demon it's probably autographed it is Damon no Damon Simon and see it as Damon it is Diamond they compared it to the Stephen found on Helen Stockings and it was inconclusive okay that's annoying so not enough to name him as the killer but it's like not enough to roll him out either and I think like when I said he fit the bill I think he looked like the guy he did go to the barrel and ball room he kind of like he kind of fit the whole vibe so they were like hmm like a lot of people were like you should look into this guy so that was like like like shit you know it's too bad they kind of got like more of a sample exactly and the sample was deteriorating the longer we're going price this it's like we're like how many years later it's like deteriorating nothing then we fast forward to 2007 shit when Peter Tobin did his whole shit so Professor David Wilson was the guy who pointed out the idea that Tobin was too old to just be beginning killing with Angelica Clex murder which is true like he was like this doesn't make sense and how he behaved after it suggested that he had done it before also all of his wives said they were beaten raped and strangled by him yeah which is exactly what Bible John would do but all of his like not his wife victims like the victims that weren't his wife they didn't have their even similarities no well they they all were beaten right and most of them were strangled to some degree but they weren't killed by strangled yeah he also met his first wife that barrel and ballroom and people think that he does kind of look out like a sketch but I don't agree I don't think it looks like a sketch at all yeah I don't think it looks like a sketch also Peter Tobin was short right he was like by I can eat or something like that he was like short as in not like short you know he just shorting shorter than Bible John was said to be at least six feet tall like he was known to be and you're not gonna mistake like yeah you're just not and also Peter Tobin doesn't have red hair at all and I mean I guess it could be like a lighting thing that like maybe some people thought he had red hair but like I feel like when dudes have red hair you know it right yeah so yeah I just don't think he looks like the sketch but his wives all also claimed that it pissed him off when they were on their periods okay that's weird and that it put him in fits of rages huh that's a very just fits of rage I didn't even think I was like why did that sound so weird coming out of my face he was also a Roman Catholic he was also super religious so Bible that does it does check out I wonder if he had mommy issues because we didn't really know what I was trying to do don't know a lot so he was five ten by the way okay not too far so he wasn't short he was just not over six feet right that could be a mistake well I have no like I know I'm really bad at that too so I could do that to be like he was six feet like I could say that John was like six seven and the other thing was all these women were short so he probably looked at all or so and he looked like six feet right so maybe so maybe it's not because you you make John look taller because you're tiny next to him not Bible John you're John yeah I mean in the beginning like when you were going through all the murders I was like no no no but now that you are saying they're all these things like sense I just I'm not I'm not either way right but I'm not totally on the other side exactly that's why I'm kind of like I get it yeah both sides yeah two women did come forward at this time in 2007 to say that they had been attacked or almost attacked at the Baraland Ballroom by Peter so the Berlin Ballroom I know they both said that they saw his photo in the media and they almost fell over because they were like he's 100% Bible John wow and they were like this was around the time that like Bible John was doing his thing yeah Professor Wilson the guy who first said like you know the Angelica or the Angelica Cleck murder was not his first he said that he knew they he was like I know these two people are the same people and he was like during the trial he was like Bible John is Peter Tobin Peter Tobin is Bible John right and he said that and this was during the trial for the murder of Dynamical yes and she so she was the one who was hitchhiking with that guy David Tremblick after the music festival yeah and David Tremblick was dropped off first left her with just like how the Helen exactly Helen systems and he said that the man who killed Dino was very superior acting and like very like Sanctimonious I can't picture like Peter Tobin being sanctimonious I know but he was because he was like he was very like he used his religion a lot to like be high and mighty right everything and Gene Helen's sister said the man who killed her sister was the exact same way like very sanctimonious very superior acting like same exact thing interesting now apparently one of Peter Tobin's known aliases because remember I believe he had over 50 aliases yeah was John's simple and she had said it sounded like Templeton or exactly she had actually said his last name was Templeton or Simpleton or something like that and he's and it's John's simple huh but she says Gene Helen's sister who spent the whole night with this John and he said Peter Tobin is not Bible John so maybe he just didn't age well that's the thing you like so long that's really the only thing that like gives me pause right sister saying that he's absolutely not him right you spent the whole night hanging out with him but it's true taxi with him that is true like I don't know the only thing that I can think of is like you said like a lighting issue where it was always dark and bars like that and then exactly driving home in a taxi at night like yeah but I definitely and it was a long time ago so maybe but you're right the sketch looks nothing like it doesn't look like him I don't think it looks like him at all no so Jean passed away in 2010 oh I repeat weirdly her last name was McLaughlin shut the fuck up and alias Peter Tobin used that he would almost do as a fuck you yep if you think about which I thought was like that's weird isn't that weird that gave me a little bit of a chill yeah I really think that's weird and they did test the DNA on the stockings and compared it to Tobin's DNA and it didn't match but that could be because it was decades old that yeah it's just not a good sample to use that's not a good sample I think anything was that no yeah now David Wilson the professor that we talked about before he said about this case about Bible John being Peter Tobin he said quote I didn't set out to prove Tobin was Bible John but I would stake my professional reputation on it wow yeah now I mean I don't I mean obviously he's a lot more educated than we are yeah it's like it's I think some of the weird things about this are obviously the menstruation aspects yes and what his wives had said which to me is what I believe is that he would pick these women up to have sex with them some of them he was able to have sex with and went about his merry way yeah the women who said no I'm on my period he went into a fit of rage and murdered them and made a show out of the period and then I also think that there's something to do like you said these women are single mothers yeah he's very religious mm-hmm I'm not saying all religious people are like this but he sounds like very very sounds like a very like aggressive like angry religious person that like is very judgmental and it sounds to me like he's might be using these women as an example well I think especially like some religious people like they take the Bible is like more not a suggestion but they don't take it like word for word they warp it to fit their own and I think he was like really something like a hateful person yes warped it to fit his face exactly and I think he was doing that like the adult or a woman gets stoned yeah and these are sing these are women who are separated and also single mothers and now they're out and they shouldn't be out which she's probably saying like what exactly why are you out these places are dens of iniquity you're a mother you're gonna be a little bit too young and let it teach you why you shouldn't be out yep wow yeah yeah yeah but again technically it's an unsolved set of murders we don't know who Bible John is another doesn't we may never know part of me definitely thinks he's Peter Tobin but then another part of me gives pause he's Peter Tobin esque for sure yes but but a lot of serial killers are just serial killer esque you know it's the other thing it's like they all kind of like right and you can kind of fit them all to like each other right in a little way right here there and there are some similarities that you're like all right that's that's interesting that you know that professor saying I would stake my professional education on it and I know some of the original investigators in the Bible John case I have all said they believe 100% Peter Tobin is Bible John huh but I don't know I'm not convinced I know well that happens sometimes like people are like I would stake my career on that and I believe that and then it turns out like you got like 100% matching their bullshit like all those crazy yeah it's like maybe it's just you just never know I don't know I can't I honestly am not I can't stand on either side of the fence I don't know yeah I want to stand on one side but that one gave me like such an eerie feel yeah that was a very crazy one so that's the tale of Bible John thank you Bible John the Bible what's that what is that from why do I keep saying that the Bible I don't remember what is that from you remember we like it's from a movie that is a lot what's that what's that movie everybody the Bible the Bible like somebody just says it like that yeah oh it's gonna bother me yeah if somebody knows what because I'm sure somebody's listening and screaming exactly just scream the answer at us please because I need to know comment it to us on Instagram at morbid podcast hit us up on Twitter a morbid podcast send us a gmail morbidpodcast at gmail.com and definitely shop our new merch at shop.morbidpodcast.com yes it's so good we hope you keep listening and we hope you keep it weird but not somewhere that you got mad at me for being on the period and then you're like really beating them and like hurting them really badly and then you kill them and then you tape their sanitation about it to their eye because that just really grows with you it is stop having your mommy issues don't do it it's like come on don't be Bible John get out of here