Claude Steele on Churn, the Awkward Social Distress That Divides Us All

from Depresh Mode with John Moe · host john moe, claude steele

I’m pretty sure you’ve been in this situation: you’re in a group setting of consequence and importance. Maybe it’s at work, maybe in school, but something is on the line. In that place are people different from you. They’re of a different race, ethnicity, gender, sexual orientation, and you begin to worry about how you are being perceived. Are you an individual in everyone’s eyes or are they seeing you for the group you represent? Does your behavior match the stereotype that exists for people like you in the eyes of these other folks? Claude Steele, distinguished social psychologist, calls this churn in his new book, Churn: The Tension That Divides Us and How to Overcome It. He says it can have an effect on your mental health, particular in the areas of depression and anxiety. Steele explains the fascinating research and experiments that led him to explore the idea of churn and offers ideas on how to stop feeling it and establish yourself as an individual. Thank you to all our listeners who support the show as monthly members of Maximum Fun. Check out our I’m Glad You’re Here and Depresh Mode merchandise at the brand new merch website MaxFunStore.com! Hey, remember, you’re part of Depresh Mode and we want to hear what you want to hear about. What guests and issues would you like to have covered in a future episode? Write us at [email protected]. Depresh Mode is on BlueSky, Instagram, Substack, and you can join our Preshies Facebook group. Help is available right away. The National Suicide Prevention Lifeline: 988 or 1-800-273-8255, 1-800-273-TALK Crisis Text Line: Text HOME to 741741. International suicide hotline numbers available here: https://www.opencounseling.com/suicide-hotlines Thanks to everyone who participated in this year's MaxFunDrive! Still want to get in on the action? Follow this link to support this show (and get in on our limited-time keychain sale to benefit the Center for Constitutional Rights): https://maximumfun.org/joindepresh

What this episode covers

The eminent social psychologist explains the effects of a situation you have definitely found yourself in.

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Claude Steele on Churn, the Awkward Social Distress That Divides Us All

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This episode is 55 minutes long.

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This episode was published on May 11, 2026.

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