Competing models of the Gospels: Why is the confirmation of details so helpful to reportage? episode artwork

EPISODE · Jun 28, 2026 · 17 MIN

Competing models of the Gospels: Why is the confirmation of details so helpful to reportage?

from The Lydia McGrew Podcast · host Lydia McGrew Podcast

Here I return to a point I discussed a couple of weeks ago, here:https://youtu.be/Xs4mRIzICKwThe historical reportage model and the fact-changing literary device model give quite different probabilities to finding details in the Gospels confirmed. The literary device model says that it was part and parcel of the Gospels' genre that their authors felt licensed to change details. In fact, Dr. Licona has gone so far as to say that we see these kinds of things all the time in the Gospels. Therefore, finding these details confirmed is evidence for the historical reportage model over the literary device model.Today I revisit the orator Quintilian and discuss the claim that Quintilian is evidence that the Gospels are probably in a genre in which they felt licensed to change facts. Here is an earlier video I did on this topic, in which I quoted Quintilian:https://youtube.com/live/weDCbf7bKDYHere, cued up, is Licona comparing the "green grass" detail to Quintilian's advice and implying that it was added just to make the readers feel like they were there.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qcAHjxkvT5A&t=3442sHere is the comparison of errancy and deliberate making up or changing details, with their different effects upon the estimate of reliability:https://youtube.com/live/pS9pFGV8l8wHere is the footnote from The Eye of the Beholder:"Michael Licona has suggested that specific sensory details in the Gospel narratives may be added (apparently with or without factual justification) to make the reader feel like he is present in the scene, citing Quintilian as giving permission to historians to do so. “Do We Have Evidence for Jesus’ Resurrection: Mike Licona Responds,” S. J. Thomason, Christian-Apologist.com, February 2, 2019, minute 57:22, https://youtu.be/qcAHjxkvT5A?t=3442. But Quintilian is discussing high-flown rhetorical embellishment in a speech by an orator in order to excite emotion or win a case. Quintilian, Institutio Oratoria, 4.2.63-64, 8.3.61-71. He envisages either open imagination in painting a lush scene (“I seem to see,” etc.) or outright deception in an attempt to sway the judge to one’s side--an activity of unscrupulous lawyers both past and present. Nothing could be further from either the genre or the style of John’s Gospel, with its sober narration and its casual touches of realism, than what Quintilian envisages. Licona also misses an undesigned coincidence in this context, suggesting that the reference to the green grass at the feeding of the five thousand found in Mark (he accidentally says that it is found in John) may be such a rhetorical flourish. But in fact the “green grass” reference found in Mark dovetails nicely with John’s mention that the Passover was near."

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Competing models of the Gospels: Why is the confirmation of details so helpful to reportage?

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