This is the Defenders podcast on TV Podcast Industries, and we're talking about Daredevil Born Again, Season 2, Episode 3, The Scales and the Sword. And you? Me? Mm.
I'm the knight. High opinion of yourself. All right, a man at arms then. Hmm.
Is this amusement for you, or self-soothing? categorizing the sharks that might one day tear you apart now that is a very good question dr glenn welcome back fellow defenders to the defenders podcast on tv podcast industries we're here and we're talking about Daredevil Born Again, Episode 3, The Scales and the Sword. I'm one of your hosts, John. I am your other host, Derek.
Excellent stuff. I hope you're not sick of my voice yet. We've been doing Invincible. It feels like two episodes a week, plus Daredevil Born Again as well, which we've been doing, what, three episodes in the last week?
Absolutely. There will be no Easter for us. Well, once we get this done, we'll be able to go and eat our eggs, John. Yes.
hopefully. Yummy. Absolutely. Yummy eggs.
Yeah, but thanks so much for joining us. I hope you're enjoying the return of Daredevil Born Again on Disney+. It's really cool to be chatting about Daredevil. Just a reminder, though, if you want to get access to the podcast and you haven't subscribed yet, pop on over to our website at tvpodcastindustries.com and you'll get all of the shows that we've covered.
We're almost at a thousand episodes so lots and lots of stuff to listen to over there. Or you can actually still pop over to our website defenders tv podcast.com which has been our home for marvel for 10 years so lots of stuff over there we also want to hear your thoughts on the show you can email us to feedback at tv podcast industries.com or join us in our facebook group at facebook.com slash groups slash tv podcast industries to share your thoughts on the spoiler posts and finally you can also join us over in our discord the details of which are in the show notes for this very episode yes excellent stuff that reminds me actually with you mentioning about the thousandth episode I still need to figure out a venue and a location where we can all meet up I probably erring on the side of Dublin later in the year I think that could be quite good. It could be that. And if John doesn't get his finger out, it will be virtual, so we can meet from all across the world.
That is true. I think we should do both. We could do both, yes, as well. It would be good to get all the defenders that can over to Dublin, where we can sit and chat in a pub.
You're going to need to make a plan soon. We're cracking on, John. I know. Especially at the moment.
Almost April. Yeah, but it's not even that. We've done five episodes in a week with one more episode to go. So we're going to be close to 980, I think, in the next couple of days.
It's tossing up. It's tossing up, fellow defenders. It's tossing up. And breaking feedback news.
We got a voicemail in from the wonderful Mr. Steve Brann. hello tv podcast industries industries this is steve and i know i've been in my for a while but gosh daredevil born again season two is back and my goodness it's uh such a relief uh i i absolutely love this show i love podcasting on this show with my partner mark and uh just uh can't can't wait i love hearing your guys's uh coverage of it and can't wait to hear you uh cover the rest of the season the uh um this episode i won't say anything uh spoilery and i don't want to give away the pub quiz question because i'm going to answer it via email but uh i do i there was one thing i i kind of caught and i'm not sure they that kind of talked about on the official podcast is i know that langley sometimes is is associated with the fbi but a lot of times it's also associated with the uh the cia and when i think it was lieutenant governor the attorney general is talking to Mr. Charles.
He says something about the agency, which that's usually referring to the CIA. So I don't think Mr. Charles is part of that. I think he's part of something different, but just thought I'd give my insight on that or my thoughts on that.
Loved actually seeing Matt and Karen together. I think they're great. They're a good couple and I'm impressed by it. Gosh, what else can I say about this episode that I didn't say in my own podcast?
We agreed with a lot of the points you guys made about this this first episode and just can't wait for the rest of the season can't wait for the return of jessica jones loved hearing her name dropped there in the in in the dialogue and can wait to see what they going to do with bullseye all we seen is a dagger throwing at this point But gosh Wilson is it Wilson or Bernthal Not Bernthal. Anyway, the actor who plays Bullseye did the pre-Born Again Season 2 kind of premiere for the official podcast episode. So anyway, yeah, that's all I got for now. I'm going to try to send in stuff every week.
Other than that, talk to you later. Thanks so much, Steve. It's great to hear from you. I had to put this into our episode three podcast feedback because I couldn't hold it out another week.
And we're recording so many podcasts at the moment. I want to get you back into this episode as soon as I possibly could. Great to hear from you on this. Yeah, great stuff.
Thanks, Steve. Don't stay missing in action for too much longer. Absolutely. And make sure for sure that you keep your pub quiz answers rolling in at the end of the season.
I'm watching out for you as a fellow defender and a fellow quizzer to be coming in with a full set of answers to our pub quiz questions, of course. And I think the episode spoils the pub quiz question for episode one, so I think you're okay. I love that poor Steve thought he couldn't say the name of the episode because it would spoil it. Don't worry, everybody has it right already, Steve.
even though we don't normally get our answers in until after the end of the season. Everybody wanted to tell us how easy the question was. I even got somebody on Spotify making a comment on the podcast going, it's the name of the episode, basically. So don't worry, you're not ruining anything.
We're making the questions harder from now on. Yes, absolutely. Einstein-level hardness will be coming in. I haven't had a chance to check out the official podcast.
They're doing a videocast with Charlie Cox and Vincent D'Onofrio and some of the other cast members and some of the other members behind the scenes. This is the new thing that all of the major channels are doing. I'm checking out lots of the fan podcasts, though, so definitely hearing lots of good things from fans of Daredevil. So hopefully the cast are adding a bit more, a bit extra information to their views as well.
Yeah, absolutely. And I think I'm totally with you there, Steve, around Matt and Karen's relationship. I'm really enjoying it, and it's mainly because they're not forcing the issue. It was kind of like, oh, wow, surprise.
They're now a couple. And it just feels quite natural in a sense. I do that in inverted commas for two people effectively on the run technically with both dual identities given the wigs the wigs involved for for karen and that uh is it wiggy pages exactly wiggy watch and that basically um you know they just doing as they can in the moment and i like that it's kind of done in this very matter-of-fact way rather than a big sort of drum roll who-ha about it well i guess they kind of had the big drum roll who back in season two of the Daredevil show on Netflix. Exactly.
So they got together there, and now they're back together here after being on the run for a while. So it makes sense. They know each other very well at this stage, right? Yeah.
Yeah, really good. Excellent stuff. Thanks so much for your feedback, Steve. Hopefully everybody else is going to be sending in their feedback, and we'll chat about it on the next podcast as well.
But Derek, let's get on with our podcast of episode three of Daredevil, the scales and the sword not the sandals nope and who gave us what when where and how well the showrunner for the show of course is darius gardipane this episode was directed by solven slick name he directed episodes of the blacklist and snowfall but i dug really deep on this one john he also wrote directed and produced a show about his dog called it's bruno that starred Rob Morgan, who played Turk Barratt on Daredevil and the other Marvel Netflix shows. Everybody wants to see Turk Barratt back on this show. Just for a little cameo, Rob Morgan famously went on to star in multiple episodes as a police officer in Stranger Things on Netflix as well, so he seemed to have a contract on Netflix for many, many years. I'd love to see him back just for one little moment with Turk Barratt.
Wouldn't it be kind of cool? Yeah, definitely. And who wrote this episode? The episode was written by Heather Bellinson.
this is the second episode of three Daredevil episodes that she wrote. She wrote the season one finale and has episode seven of this season as well. She's got some great writing credits on The Walking Dead, American Gods as well, and recently wrote Interview with the Vampire, season two, episode three, No Pain. And she wrote The Sandman, season one, episode seven, The Doll's House.
Two great shows, two great episodes as well. Yes, fantastic stuff. And the third season of Interview with the Vampire is coming out in a couple of weeks' time, John. I know, it's mad.
Maybe it's May, I think it is. Mad. And I think it's the Vampire of the Stat is the third season. Great book.
Great TV show. Go check it out. Absolutely. Great ads.
Yeah, absolutely. Yeah, yeah. Great characters. John.
Great teeth. John, do you want to tell us what they all gave us? With your synopsis for Daredevil Born Again Season 2 Episode 3 The Scales and the Sword. Sure.
Kirsten McDuffie is called up early to defend Jacques Duquesne from the allegations that he is the swordsman. It's a sham trial and unable to find a way around the Mersnew Acts, Duquesne is found guilty on all charges. Karen shares full details of the Red Hook Charter with the Governor of the State of New York, hoping she will revoke it and after a brief interrogation of the captured AVTF agent, Matt trusts that he's telling them the truth. The agent provides him access to the port at Red Hook and using Kirsten McDuffie's directions, Daredevil finds his way inside the hidden facility.
But instead of getting to Fisk's illegal weapons, Matt chooses to free the prisoners fighting side by side with Jack Duquesne to get everyone out. Beyond the walls, Angela Del Toro, inspired by her uncle White Tiger, arrives to help the resistance. Angered by the attack on his facility, Fisk goes ahead with his plan, setting off an explosion that kills all the night workers who removed the weapons from the Northern Star. Oof.
Indeed. Old Karen and Matt Murdock are very shocked at that. Yes, they are. Absolutely.
Even Wilson Fisk would go ahead with that kind of plan. Well, he's supposed to be making it look like an accident, according to the conversation that he had with Mr. Let's Say Charles back in episode one. So so I guess they're just surprised at the explosion because they don't know Fisk's behind it.
They may suspect, but we'll see that more, I guess, in episode four. Before we get into discussions on episode four, we've got to get into our major case notes for episode three, though, John, don't we? Yes. First off, it is case note number one.
Order. Order. Time for the defense to present their evidence. And nicely enough, it does link into the trial of the swordsman on Jack Duquesne.
This really has kangaroo court written all over it. I'm still not entirely sure to what extent the main judge is happy with it. But ultimately she goes ahead with it It feels like she being pressured by her kind of co or companion judges to make sure that she stays on the right path Because, like he says to her, book up Buttercup, you know, let's get on with this. Now, we'll say there is a moment she walks in and there's the sign over the bench saying, you know, justice will prevail, basically.
She kind of throws her eyes to heaven as if like just just so everybody knows in the audience, justice will not prevail in this course. Yeah, exactly. It's a little a little heavy handed, but I kind of like it as well. No, I do.
I mean, I think it's on the nose, but it makes it fairly clear. I mean, even, you know, we do see Kirsten McDuffie going to have some time with her client at Red Hook. but she's only taken the blindfolded so she doesn't see any of it i do like how that plays out later where um you have daredevil asking her how she got in and she goes well i couldn't see anything and daredevil goes well i can work with that and so i thought that was quite cool and it also explained why they were showing the pigeons and you know walking you through what she was walking through to get to uh the room where Jacques Duquesne was being held and like it's like it's cool and it's a it's a tv show thing definitely but John um do you remember yesterday when you went over the shops uh could you describe every step of the way that you got there and what was uh what was going on around you uh to someone that's never been in the location before so they can get through that walk no no I can't I can't do that even if you told me in advance I would have to describe it i'm sure i'd miss if you think if i was blindfolded i would be more heightened to everything else right i guess hey look it's it's a fun scene i like i like it but i'm not too sure how realistic absolutely but i like then that you know jack duquesne is fairly uh somber about all of this he knows he won't win the case and that it it's all because effectively he hadn't thrown his money behind um wilson fisk that fisk also needs this public show um he says it started as a shakedown and now he going after his personal enemies uh because we effectively turned him down on the investment in red hook This is news to Kirsten McDuffie and she at least has some kind of dare I say it hook that she feels she can use in court And she does try to get him, she just tells him, speak the truth in the case when it's his time to go on the stand. but equally she's frustrated that she says it seems as though the press has had longer to prepare for this court appearance than i have with my client and so is really trying to get some kind of compromise or some kind of leeway from the main judge who ultimately really appears, at least on the face of it, not to be having any of it.
But I'm still wondering whether we will see that she's being coerced into doing this, whether it's from the other two judges either side of her or more directly, say, from Buck Cashman. I don't know. But yes, I mean, she seems reluctant, but also resigned to it. Yes, I think the frustration here is that Fisk has introduced the Safer Streets Act, and all of that is to allow him to do whatever he wants to do, and allows judges that are in his employ to disregard due process, to find in favour of the district attorney, who is Hockberg, who we've seen.
These are all great elements that add into the frustration of what's going on, right? I think lots of us in the world thought 10 years ago, the way things have gone, they wouldn't go this way again. How would you be ever able to repeat the mistakes that were made 50, 60 years ago? And showing these scenes of frustration where a well-trained lawyer like Chris McDuffie, she had her pick of whatever legal firm she wanted to go to.
She could have even worked in the district attorney's office. she's here being told that the case has been moved up for her clients so she doesn't even have more than like a week to prepare or more than a couple of days to prepare you have jack who instantly when he finds out he's the first vigilante being put on trial knows the reason that happening is because fisk wants his uh his um court case on telly and he wants to have this big takedown of his of his own personal rival um and you have these judges who are who know they just sitting there not to listen to any evidence not to make any kind of determination whatever happens this guy is supposed to be put in prison he's supposed to be found guilty so you hear you know things like um hopper reading directly from the transcript that um heather glenn had put together like heather glenn says in the transcript that swordsman is just like the killer um muse well she has absolutely no frame of reference to say that sand that that swordman could be anything like a person that actually did try to kill her there's nothing oh absolutely it's pure speculation and when kirsten tries to say that they go uh no no um he's allowed to read whatever he wants to basically yeah and i but i like that kirsten does bump into dr glenn outside of the court earlier on and she literally says your psych evaluation is a hatchet job yeah so i kind of like that and you do get these a couple of glances over at her as she sits in court yeah and you hear later actually from vanessa who says your evaluations were instrumental in uh getting jack duquesne uh sentenced as guilty so this is really as in fact in the words of Jacques Duquesne, it's a tribunal, not a trial. Yeah. And, you know, this is just coming down on high because of the way this new law has been, the Safer Streets Act has been sort of phrased.
So, yes, really kind of interesting. Yeah, this is purely to get what Fisk wants to say out into public domain. That's why the courts are allowed to have reporters in there with cameras while it's going on and why Kristen isn't allowed any time to prepare her defense, because it's much easier for them to prosecute him if she has no defense to put forward. So a really interesting one.
I just remember, again, I think we mentioned in the last episode about Handmaid's Tale, but remember watching that first episode of Handmaid's Tale where you're going, well, this can't happen. You know, you think it's something that's happening in the 1800s because of the images that you've seen of the show, but actually it's set in contemporary times, and the ruling class in Handmaid's Tale have found all of the people that could possibly form a resistance and taken them out systematically, which is what's happening here with Wilson Fisk. He's looking to systematically take out anybody that could form any kind of resistance to him. You know, the episode even opens with things like the basketball courts, in the local area all being shut down.
So people can't even meet me to chat with each other, you know, there's loads of signs everywhere saying due to the safer streets act, places are closed down that have been decided just on the whim of Wilson Fisk, you know? So, so yeah, it's really interesting that it's led to this. It's really interesting that it's formed around Jack Duquesne and he's, he knows he's going to be sent to jail. It's, it's a, I love the scene between himself and Kristen McDuffie when she's talking to him.
There's lots of amiability between the two of them. He knows what he's there for. He knows that he's just being used. And he knows there's nothing she can do about it.
So he's not angry. Yeah, he understands the absurdity of the verdict. And I do like the way that as he the judgment is coming down from the judge, he's he kind of says this is a farce for the entertainment of the masses. And you see Wilson Fisk watching on TV in his office and laughing as the win effectively takes place.
and he gets the guilty verdict and you have Duquesne saying presented in all its ugly glory by the man who holds the scales I mean what do they say is that Mother Justice is blind that's why she was the blindfold but in certain circumstances yes in this case not very blind at all very pointed in fact from Wilson Fisk well yeah not justice at all i would say well exactly i mean it's always the interesting thing i always remember when i arrived in ireland and there were a few going to dublin castle which was obviously the seat of british power in ireland uh back in the day during the cloak that it's colonization and so on and that lady i said mother justice tonight but lazy justice is that faces into the castle, not out towards the city. And there's always, that was kind of like, you know, is that trying to say the justice will always be weighted towards, you know, the occupying officials and forces. Yeah. Interesting.
Must have a look at that, John. I haven't noticed that in Dublin Castle. Let's go check that out at the weekend. Well, lots of symbolism in the way things are put.
Absolutely. Whether it the phrasing of words or architecture and all that kind of stuff Anyway Interesting one Ultimately though yes the trial of the swordsman goes ahead and he is found guilty but with sentencing to follow Yes. Absolutely. I think we should get on to our case note number two.
Mm-hmm. Yeah, let's talk about Heather Glenn in this episode. our first moment is where we've got the case note, which is the obsession with the Muse mask. She kept it after being attacked.
She certainly did. And I'm wondering, is she about to hang it on the wall? It does look like it. She looks like she's taking a moment with the Muse mask there.
She's counting one, two, three. She's looking at it as if she couldn't face looking at it before. So she's trying to build up that tolerance to looking at the thing that almost killed her is what it feels like. But she's not in a good place.
And, you know, you wonder whether the reason why she has access to it is because of maybe Vanessa or Wilson Fisk got it for her and brought it to her thinking, you know, well, this might keep her even more on side. You know, there seems to be a relationship developing or a friendship developing between Vanessa and Heather Glenn in this episode as well. and given that when she meets up with Kristen she says to her, well, as a friend, even though they're not friends anymore even though she's saying things like maybe Matt Murdock was working with Daredevil and Punisher, you know, or maybe they killed him or maybe he was working on their side, you know, she seems to be full of conspiracy theories. I love that Kristen's kind of dealing with her like she's a fragile egg, you know, she's kind of saying, well, I don't think that's exactly what happened and i do think matt's alive like they they clearly differ on their views of fisk and um i think kirsten's kind of like going you've kind of warped your thoughts on matt yes and he's never as you described there ultimately i do like the fact that kirsten comes down and says why are you working for him he's not the answer so you know she's been she's very clear on that and i i think someone needs to needs to be with with dr glenn because like it's really great characterization here because i'm really disliking her and i but i can see now in this episode she clearly going through something like she looks really kind of preoccupied um in the trial like shaken almost uh whether it because because the realisation of what she done or how she been manipulated again.
I don't know, but it's just really good. Yeah, I know what you mean. She just feels uncomfortable, doesn't she? She is a supporter of Fisk, both Wilson and Vanessa.
She is someone that's on their side. but it feels like that could all come crashing down at some point as the episodes go on, doesn't it? One other thing as part of the relationship with Vanessa, interestingly, she starts to kind of pair her up with Buck Cashman. They have the dinner at Vanessa's house and their mates sit beside each other.
I just love the conversation that's going on between Buck Cashman and Heather Glenn. He's surprised that Heather's sitting beside him and he says, oh we've got the best table in the house looking onto the royal court and he starts cataloging them and saying the king locking horns with the governor the queen observing everything and making notes daniel um and heather kind of says that a jester and he goes well no maybe something more maybe he's the heir unapparent um which i love yeah this calls back to something last episode where um wilson fisk and vanessa were talking about the fact they could leave the city but they have no heir to leave the city too and potentially maybe daniel is being prepared to become the new kingpin in the future well absolutely but even just before this as well daniel and um and book how have a moment where you have book coming into daniel's office you know book is trying to find out about the leak um from the office in in respect to the kingpin in a mask um and he's like find out who is in the mask and turn them over to me he says um but it's also that daniel is effectively eating some street meat but persuades book to to eat it as though it it's one of the best and pieces of street food you're ever going to get but it's just from the local bodega or something and and he kind of says look how i've been able to turn you into thinking you're eating something exquisite or at least something better than you get at a massive dining because he's trying to find out about Governor McCaffrey does she have any weak points any secrets which is one of the other reason why um book is here sort of trying to sort of get the info from Daniel from his files so um I I kind of like yeah I like how that exchange has clearly put a different view on Daniel from book as he says this then to Heather. Yeah, absolutely. He continues to go around and an interesting one he calls out, Sheila, the chief of staff, or is she Iago waiting with a sharpened blade?
So, again, interesting. She did, at the end of last season, turn on the chief of police and that led to his death. He's still thinking maybe she's waiting for her moment maybe maybe that wasn't the moment and she's still keeping close to fisk and will eventually turn on him that's interesting and then the discussion turns to buck what's his position uh he says he's a knight or maybe a man at arms um and then heather gives a really interesting take is he there categorizing the sharks that might one day tear him apart you know i love this this this idea again it's just calling out what we've seen you You know, we've seen everybody being manipulative. We've seen everybody having their own perspective.
Everybody's a complex character in this show. Everybody from Daniel to Vanessa to Buck to Sheila to Kingpin himself, all of them are reserving everything that's going on around them and making decisions based on their perspective and based on what they're seeing. So who's the smartest one? Who is going to be the shark that will survive at the end of the season?
You know, so, yeah. Yeah, absolutely. I mean, even with Daniel sort of saying, you know, what's your thing, Book? You know, UX Special Ops from the UK, all this kind of stuff.
And Book's not letting anything out at all. So, yeah, really interesting thing in this episode with Book Cashman. It is. Interestingly, just a tip for anybody who's going on a date for the first time with someone they know.
He didn't turn his spotlight on Heather Glenn to tell her who she was in the course. he just said uh we're courtiers or courses and starts um he calls himself a night man alarms he literally lists off every one of the major characters that we've seen so far but doesn't uh turn the spotlight on to heather glenn so and they probably went quite well i guess so yeah i guess so um i can't imagine it will work out very well. I don't know. There was something about their meetings over the course of season one that I always felt there was something there.
Remember, it was Buck Cashman that found Heather Glenn for the Fisks when they were going through their marital troubles. He's the one that went over to their house to invite her plus guest, i.e. Matt Murdock, to the Black and White event last season. So he's always had a connection with Heather Glenn.
So it's interesting that Vanessa's setting them up and he's calling it a pleasant surprise. so hey you never know yeah absolutely really running together good stuff uh let us get on to our case note number three order in the court yes the governor is on to fisk this is governor mccaffrey yeah um i have to say now there is an exchange between these two that i just absolutely love she's here for the governor's sort of dinner and and she's challenging him in his office about the red hook um freeport and you know just because all these things are above board because all of your assets have been put into trust and she says it doesn't make you immune and you know she she basically makes a pointed remark and flags that his intimidation of her attorney general by his cia friend you know was not welcome and she seems to take a bit more of a conciliatory note where she says look i turned a blind eye to your powers the um avtf the court cases but a ship in the harbor i can't turn a blind eye to and fisk is like i don't know where you get your info from and she says you don't do you i love that great line and now on the other flip side of that at the the dinner that we've just talked about vanessa whispers to fisk's ear because she tries to take a lead on him by speaking first to the invited guests. And Vanessa's basically saying she's doing this because she's afraid of you. And there may be a bit of column A, column B here for Governor McCaffrey I think she just smart I think she just smart exactly And I think she knows exactly how to handle MERS in New York City Exactly.
The point that she's making when she's listing out all of the things that Fisk has done since he got into office, the point that I feel she's making is, I've been watching, I've seen it all. Absolutely. I'm seeing it happen. She also, in the post from an anonymous source, gets a copy of the Red Hook plans and the charter effectively.
Karen, we find out, has sent that over to her. But that's just the tipping point. What she's telling Fisk in that room is, I've been watching it the whole time. I usually allow people to hang themselves with enough rope.
I'm not there to take them out. They'll do that themselves. But yes, putting a ship into the East River, allowing it to sink, that is you hanging yourself. Absolutely.
And I'm here to watch it. With the threat that it is only the governor that can revoke the Freeport status of Red Hook. So is she telling him she is revoking it? Because that's what it feels like.
I think it's a threat. Okay. Like, basically, stay in your lane. Okay.
I think. Because I thought what she said, the ship in the East River is you hanging yourself. I thought that was her saying, I'm now about to go down and revoke the character. Maybe, maybe.
I took it as just get it sorted, because that's not acceptable, and it needs to go away. Yeah. Because it's not just a thing for the mayor of New York. It's for the governor of the state.
So, like, I think she's saying that not only have I been watching you, but I do have levers to use against him. Because he, Fisk goes, well, I hope for the people of New York's sake that this investment won't be. so I don't think she's decided to do it but I think there's a contemplation there or at least a veiled threat I just wonder if maybe next episode when she finds out about all the escapees from Red Hook will she shut the place down by submitting the charter or you know maybe she'll on her drive home she may end off in a similar way to Gallo exactly I just wanted to point out the actress who plays the governor is Lily Taylor who is another actress from Gotham. She played one of the child catchers alongside Frank Wally in episode 4, I think, of Gotham season 1.
Just fun again another actress from Gotham Didn have any seeds as far as I remember with sabrina greveira but certainly uh was on the show in that first season when both of them were when she was a major character so yeah she's also in a movie that i really enjoyed back in the day and i've not watched it in a long time uh hell house and it's from a book which i i think is entitled the same by Robert Matheson who also did I Am Legend so it's a really good book about effectively haunted house really but it's just really nicely sort of framed by Robert Matheson love him as an author oh absolutely he's great so yes she's great and it's good that she has some nice sort of spiky rebuttals to Fisk here. So, yeah. And one of the other things that's kind of going in and out throughout the episode is that everybody's trying to look for some dirt on her, but she's squeaky clean. You know, I love the conversation that Daniel's having with her.
Right-hand man, I think, is what he describes him as. He's trying to get him drunk to get information out of him. He's like, oh, she writes the traffic laws and then obeys the traffic laws. It's like, that's how squeaky clean she is.
You know, she writes the speed limit and also obeys it. So that's a sign, right? Yeah, definitely. So hopefully we'll see more of the governor.
Absolutely. Our introduction to the governor. I hope so. I hope she survives the series.
I hope so. Somebody has to survive a New Yorker. Absolutely. At least she's far enough away in Albany, I guess.
But I think on to our case note number four. It is the Red Hook escape. It is Daredevil's infiltration to get into Red Hook and expose all the ordnance and armaments that have been gradually removed from the Northern Star wreck, in effect, by the night crew. and is being sort of piled up at the Freeport.
And all based, as we said, on Kristen's visit to Jacques Duquesne and her retelling of this. I do like the fact that she's pulled into her office by Karen bumping into her after she just been given a drink from a guy And she kind of quite excited by this because she effectively drowning her sorrows after the awful court case and i love the bartender girl oh you're so much fun when you lose yeah exactly and so she goes over and says oh no you can't be here firstly i'm drunk and secondly you know everyone's after you yeah but and thirdly don't get me involved because i can't be involved in the resistance and again And, you know, this buildup, I mentioned the last episode, one of the things I'm really enjoying is this buildup of all the members of the Resistance, some more reluctant than others. You know, it's the fun part about these types of shows, you know, the people that are pulled in, some who want to keep as far away as possible from it, some who are on the side of the bad guy, in this case, Kingpin, and some who are on the side of the good guy in Daredevil, Matt. So I love this gathering all of them together.
Yes, absolutely. Absolutely. but we have Daredevil getting inside and I like that he gets this choice effectively so he hears the watch that he put into the crate when he was infiltrating on the Northern Star whilst it was still afloat and he hears that but he also hears this whole gaggle of geese I guess going on to the right and so he has to make a choice here And, you know, he has to mention this to Karen later. He said, I had to choose which way do I go?
And he chooses, as you would expect, to help the people who had been imprisoned there in this building in Red Hook. Yeah. So he chooses to release all these prisoners. I like he does it to Jack Duquesne.
I like the fact that as the alarm starts sounding, Jack Duquesne is given a bit of rebar to use. I like how he twirls this. I like how he kind of uses it as a sword. And I think you said as well that that whole fight scene, it's a little bit of the one camera take, which was really, really good.
It is absolutely, yeah. It's a single take extravaganza, as I have in my notes. Yeah, it's cool. I think weirdly we were looking at Matt, well at Daredevil when he was breaking people out of the cells and going how is he possibly doing that how is he breaking all the locks that easily surely they could have reached out and done that but that's part of the one take thing right, he's may not be hitting them hard enough for definitely breaking the lock, but you can go with it.
Look, he breaks the locks open. Each person comes out of their cage. They start to move up and down as the guards start to pour into the room, and each of the guards is taken out with the help of swordsmen. I think it's really cool to have this as their single take scene.
I think it's excellent. Oh, absolutely. I mean, I do like the fact that the rebar is used a bit as a javelin at one stage. So one of the guards gets it right in the shoulder.
All the kind of fire suppressants comes from the pipes in order to sort of mask where they are, because you hear use deadly force over the walkie talkies. But I like the fact that they get everyone out here and you have this side by side fight between Daredevil and Jack Duquesne as they're trying to get all the other prisoners to safety, which ultimately they get them outside, but we have Powell outside. Karen, who's now been joined by Angela, which is great, drive in with a huge, big armoured truck, so they're able to get in the back and to get the prisoners to safety. Absolutely.
And just to point out, Angela's now wearing the medallion, the white tiger medallion now. So she's basically arrived. She's taken out a couple of the guards, at least taken all their weapons and their walkie talkies. So there's a great moment when Karen calls to Code Red inside the prison and telling him where to go, basically.
So that's quite cool. So Angela being really useful here and saying there's no doubt her uncle would have done this. and she felt she couldn't sit on the sidelines and not help out. So here she is trying to help out Daredevil.
She has gone to Red Hook, realises Daredevil's there, so herself and Karen team up to get this massive truck. And as they arrive out, everybody gets into the back of the van. Karen tells Sorgsman to sit up front, is he okay driving the van in love? Great almost spit take from Jeff Duque when he looks down at the controls of this massive van and goes, this looks a little more difficult than I thought it was going to be.
but they do get out of there thankfully so all of the prisoners saved by Daredevil and Daredevil and Karen go their separate go a separate way take a different truck out of the facility Yeah and ultimately they split up I like the sort of end where it shows that Powell's about to get in the trucks and go after certainly Daredevil and Karen, but the tyres have been slashed with like the claw marks of Angela's knives in the form of sort of a tiger slash. Yes, very good. So very cool. I did like that.
I know. I'm still waiting for Powell to just get punched in the face repeatedly, which I hope is coming. I'm sure he will. I'm sure he will.
But shall we get on to our case note number five? Yeah, our final case note. Yes, the resistance is growing. Yeah, yeah.
We've kind of talked about this throughout the episode, but just to kind of call it out here, swordsman um and angela have now joined uh the group uh but also ariani uh who was the um owner i guess of the of the greek cypriot restaurant uh from the first two episodes uh she's joined and she's she knows a place to take all of the these runaways now uh to take them for to hide age basically so another member of the resistance there so um i i like this i like that that's happening throughout the episode that all of the resistance is expanding you know we did again mentioned that even just that little thing of Kristen uh giving the detail to Daredevil of how to get into Red Hook means that she's also uh included in the Resistance now so yeah exactly hopefully we'll see more people coming into it I'd love to see something like Sheila um joining the Resistance um potentially yeah absolutely as a sort of certainly on the inside maybe insider yeah definitely I mean we've already got BB there as well so you know there's a huge amount of people now you know getting involved even Josie managed and Cherry are in the wind they're still out of the hands of the task force and still members of the resistance of course it kind of leads from the promise that we got at the final episode of last season the kind of post credit scene where we had daredevil looking into a room of people around him um starting the resistance yeah exactly so hopefully we'll see more of that as the season goes on but that isn't going down well with fisk no it not and again it like i said he able to spin things so he knows that his facility been um compromised uh pals on Powell on the phone to him It following the governor dinner And he's like, you know, effectively carry out the plan. I can work with this. And effectively pinning it. He's probably going to pin it on the vigilantes again.
You know, it's all the nappies that have gone up in the explosion. all this kind of stuff the fact that the warehouse was broken into they have escaped so he's going to spin this one way or another but he goes ahead with killing the night crew workers who were removing the weapons from the ship at night and the point is that they can't report what it was they were removing so there's no connection from them there was that moment that we saw with Powell when he was talking to the night workers and they were saying, can we just go home? Can we not just pay us? Why do we have to wait for you to come back after delivering the weapons?
And Powell's like, shut the hell up, get on board the ship, effectively. So they followed the instructions and now they're sent to the bottom of the East River for their trouble. Exactly. So, yeah, looking forward to the next episode to see the fallout of that explosion, how Fisk is going to spin it.
Derek any notes for this episode? No I think it cracked along in a pace because we spent most of the time in court there's not even a whiskey watch in here I didn't see what drink Christian was drinking but she probably was drinking whiskey well it was shots for sure I think whoever her suitor was I think had gotten her a whiskey because that was in a tumbler come on Marvel Disney give us some labels give us some labels we're not just watching whiskey we're not just watching whiskey we want to watch some actual types of whiskey it's changed since netflix it has it has absolutely have john any other notes for the episode none for me at all all right then silence do you defend this episode john do you defend the third episode of season two of daredevil born again the scales and the sword I certainly do I like this I liked like the start of Fisk's plan with the court case complication of the governor and the coming to light of Red Hook all of this stuff it felt nice and juicy and elaborate and I like that Dr glenn got a bit more of an outing here and certainly also with kirsten um so all of this was great for me um really liked the escape from red hook yes love the little um flourish from uh jack duquesne absolutely and of course he's not the swordsman uh but yeah i really liked it so yeah i give this four nighty night crews out of five. They have gone to sleep for their final time. As I say, I just really enjoyed it.
Absolutely defend this episode. Derek, book up, buttock up. Do you defend this episode of Daredevil Born Again? The Scales and the Sword.
Yes, I do. Absolutely. the building of the resistance, love the one-take fight sequence with Swordsman, love the court case, even though it's a kangaroo court and the outcome was definitely going to be known. Really liked that.
Some great moments in this episode. And yeah, do you know what? The scene between Buck and Daniel is one of my favourites in the episode where Daniel manipulates Buck into eating a hot dog just to tell him that's how good I am. Cat food in a cylindrical shape.
I'd eat when I did eat when I was in New York. There's nothing better. Fantastic stuff. So with that, John, let's go down to Josie's Bar and see if we can get a drink from a stranger.
Absolutely. Yes, fellow quizzers, fellow defenders, it is Josie's Bar Quiz for Season 2 of Daredevil Born Again. It's Episode 3, so guess what? Surprise, surprise.
It's Cilaria and it's Question 3. what three bro-tivational words are on the black posters on the wall in Daniel's office right these are apparently very famous they are used by people who want to disregard the idea that work is for work and you have a real life outside of it John do you want to give the question one more time yes what three bro-tivational words are on the black posters on the wall in Daniel's office. One of them may be a little tricky to get because there is a pillar in the way. There is, but it moves.
But you do get to see I think half of the word, and you can work it out for sure. You definitely can. You definitely can. And I promise you, if you Google it, the three words come up as...
No, I don't mean connected to Daredevil. This predates Daredevil. This is out there from years ago. But don't Google it, fellow quizzes.
That's called cheating. It's not cheating. It's helping. It's a pub quiz.
You can't use your phone or laptop or computer. We trust you, fellow defenders. I know. Maybe they're just Googling the spelling.
great stuff thanks so much for joining us for this episode that is the third question of of eight for the season uh email us at the end of the season to feedback at tvpodcastindustries.com with your correct answers for the pub quiz questions and you can also email us there with your thoughts on any of the episodes of the shows as we go through them uh if you're missing chris uh he is discussing invincible season four in prime video with me each week and we'll be back of course with the boys final season in a couple of weeks time yes looking forward to that for sure and absolutely enjoying the Invincible coverage as well and the cartoon absolutely love Invincible it a great show and John even got to do an episode of the show this season I stood in for Chris because he was working but fellow defenders we'll be back next time with our chat all about Daredevil Born Again episode 4 gloves off and of course we will have our next question in the series for Josie's bar quiz absolutely this gloves off I guess this is the fight between Kingpin I suspect so did you see who he's fighting he's fighting the Matterhorn yeah I would say this will be the literal and metaphorical gloves off it probably will tip for tat tip for tat and he's fighting the mountain yeah excellent stuff looking forward to it see you then great stuff fellow defenders remember until next time keep watching keep listening and of course keep defending bye bye now you