Dave Rubin

Welcome back to another episode of Deconstructed Criticism. I am Aaron Vlam. This episode will be in English since today's guest is none other than Dave Rubin of the Rubin Report. Personally, I discovered Dave this Christmas, so I haven't known him long but the Rubin Report which he has has been a fixture of my YouTube consumption ever since.

Before we continue, I'd like to inform you that you can support this podcast on Patreon where it is called Decon Certificateic, which is Swedish for Deconstructed Criticism. Most episodes are in Swedish, but some are in English and won't come. My new comedy special, The Emperor is Naked or Shacer in the Knock, as it will be known in Swedish, will soon be released with English subtitles on YouTube. Dave Rubin is an ardent free speech advocate.

A former stand-up comedian who once worked for The Daily Show in the dawn of John Stuart and since long a host in his own right. Dave woke up as the fringes on both sides of politics usually refer to their respective perspectives while working on The Young Turks. I recently appeared on Dave's show The Rubin Report and those clips are available online among many interviews he's done with far more interesting people than myself. Watching Dave made me curious about him.

Apart from a five minute intro to his show, Dave lets his guest speak and always listens until they finish, and I thought it would be interesting to give him the same opportunity. Enjoy. Welcome, Mr. Rubin, to Deconstructed Criticism.

Thank you, sir. It is good to be with you, Aaron. I'm looking forward to chatting. Thank you so much for letting me be on your show the other week.

Well, I've got to tell you, people know who you are. I'm here in America. We're very America focused. But I got the burst of tweets and emails to talk to you.

I'm one of the few people I guess that are talking about Sweden. And I have to say, you got an incredibly good response, which doesn't surprise me after the conversation. But sometimes if I put on someone that's a little lesser known here in the States, the views aren't going to be as much or the response. They'll be like, ah, who's this person, even if they like them, why do I have to listen?

But the response to you was fantastic. And as I often say to my guests, it's always good to find another ally in this space because we definitely need each other because we're fighting a whole bunch of zombies right now. I know. I think you're absolutely right.

And well, I have been at this for over 10 years now. So some people should know me and we did get a retweet from PewDiePie. So that should have helped. That's as big as it gets, basically, in 2017 for two guys like us.

If PewDiePie retweets you, I took the rest of the day off. Oh, really? That's well deserved. I bought a Borgli Orli K jacket.

Very nice, very nice. Yes. So my audience may not all know you. So I would like to begin this chat just by in your own words to someone who doesn't know you.

How would you normally describe yourself? Going broad for the first question. I like that. Well, I will be 41 years old next about two weeks from now.

I was born in Brooklyn, grew up in Long Island, New York, lived in Manhattan. Most of my life went to college at SUNY Binghamton, which is upstate New York. So I'm a true New Yorker. I lived in New York basically my whole life until about four years ago when I moved out to your L.A.

Did stand up comedy for about 12 years in New York, which now I do sporadically here in L.A. But I'm so busy with the current show, which I'm sure we're going to talk about, and traveling and doing other things that that sort of been put on hold. I don't have to tell you that the life of a comic can be quite miserable. And as I've found more fruitful and enjoyable pursuits, it's kind of went to the back burner.

But basically, I was always interested in politics. I was a political science major in college. I've enjoyed traveling and meeting other people. And really what I think has sort of put me on the map is I genuinely like talking about ideas.

I like talking to people that I agree with and disagree with. And I've found myself in the last couple of years as someone that unfortunately there aren't many of us, but as someone that is a stalwart defender of free speech and your ability to say what you think and have capacity over your own mind and not feel threatened because of that. And there's a lot of people out there right now in a lot of political movements and a lot of power that is stamping down on that. And because of that, a lot of people have come to me and dig what I do.

And it's connected me with all kinds of cool people all over the world like yourself. And it's kind of a beautiful thing. I agree again. But can I ask you, you studied political science college?

Yeah, I did. Yeah. So did you want to be a politician when you applied to university or? You know, I don't know what I wanted to be when I went in, but I always was interested in politics.

I was paying attention to politics. And I remember in seventh grade watching, you know, the Dukakis George H.W. debate. And I've talked about how, you know, I did a mock election and I really want to do caucus to win.

And I thought he was the good guy, the Democrat, the liberal. Oh, by the way, at that time, Democrat and liberal meant something very different than it means these days. But as I studied politics, yeah, I think at some point throughout college, I did want to be a politician. I liked there was something about the way things were supposed to work with our Constitution and our government versus the way that they actually did work or I should say didn't work.

And I thought I could be a piece of that might be able to help. I think we have a pretty beautiful system here. The Constitution of the United States is possibly the most beautiful political document ever written. And it's why we've given more freedom to more people across the world and for all the lefties who hate America.

It's why still everybody wants to come here and doesn't want to leave. So I did want to get into politics and then sort of quickly after I had that realization, I also realized how messed up the system was. So if you think the system is messed up now in 2017, I mean, I remember thinking back then that just why would I ever want to be part of the scandals and they're going to hunt everyone down in my family and find out every drug I ever did and every sexual thing I ever did and all that. And who would ever want to be part of that?

And I was just 20 some odd years ago, which is kind of crazy because things have gotten much worse in that department now where it's just a constant witch hunt. And I don't have to tell you, but if you look at our 2016 election, it had very little to do with issues and mostly to do with just destroying people. And then that's a problem right now. Yes.

It was all about emails on Hillary side and Russia on well, it was Russia on both sides really, considering who might have taken Hillary's emails. Yes. So how did you fall into? Okay.

So you weren't openly gay back when you were thinking about becoming a politician, I suppose. No, but I did know at some level that that could be used against me. Again, this is a long time ago where, you know, not that we have a ton of out politicians now, but I did have that sort of in my head that if I, you know, I was really closeted into my mid and some part of my late 20s, which is in retrospect. All the late.

Yeah, it was rather late and it was a different time and I really don't blame anyone but myself. It was just how things work. I'm happy to get into that if you want. But I did feel like that if yes, I could be outed or blackmailed or something like that, which is such a sad thing for someone to have to think about.

But I did that was part of it also, why I didn't want to be involved in politics because I knew because look, I mean, there's so much, we have the politics of destruction. I'm sure you guys have it too. And when you don't have ideas that you can argue on principles that you stand for and policies that make sense, well, then the easiest thing to do is just destroy your opponents. And by the way, both sides are guilty of it.

Every side is guilty of it. But that's the name of the game. And then that what that does is itself selects out a lot of good people. If you were a good decent family, and I mean, picture right now, whether it's in Sweden or the United States or Mexico, you're a good decent family man.

You're 50 some odd years old. You got a couple of kids that maybe are in college or younger or older. It doesn't matter. You have a wife or a husband, whatever.

And you think there's something wrong with the country and you've been an honest businessman or whatever it is, why would you ever want to put your ass on the line and get involved in politics knowing what they will do to you, knowing that they will find a picture of you in college taking a bong hit or snorting coke or whatever it is. And then every other thing that they'll say about you and try to drive a wedge between your family, this is a huge problem because it self selects out the good people. Excuse me. And then we're left basically with this crappy selection that we usually get.

Yeah, it was kind of surprising. I think Ben Shapiro said it best that in a country with 400 million people, the two best people you could find was Donald Trump and Hillary Clinton. Yeah. That's kind of mind boggling.

It's a great point. And you know, look, Trump, I think, is the only in a weird way was the only Republican that could have ever marched through the machine that when I talk about the machine, I'm talking about the media and the establishment, all that. That obviously is left leaning in America and very intensely focused with the Democrats and Hollywood and all of that. So all of these people, we just posted an interview this morning with Jason Whitlock from Fox Sports.

Why don't we get into this a little bit? But all these people right now that think that they're part of the resistance because they're fighting Trump, they don't realize that he's the one fighting the power. Now, that doesn't mean you have to like Trump and I did videos on why not to vote for him and I did not vote for him and I said a million times, I don't know what his moral center is and I don't know what his political ethos is by the way. I don't know if he's governing day to day or is there a plan?

I think he's surrounded himself with some strange people. All those things. But the point is that Trump, just by the nature of him winning the presidency, is not the establishment, is not the powers that be. There are much bigger powers that be between the mainstream media and Hollywood and how we get all our information and old, you know, deep state political apparatus.

So these people, they're just faking this thing. They love hashtag resistance because it makes them think that they're the rebels in Star Wars and I love a good Star Wars analogy, but these guys are not doing what they think they're doing. No, obviously not. So, but what type of drugs did you do in college that you were so ashamed of that you had to go into comedy instead of politics?

Well, I mostly pot. I mean, mostly yes, I'm a huge pothead in college and I keep you not. I used to watch, I would take bongets and watch CNN. I mean, what person in their right mind does this?

I would watch press conferences. At that time it was George W. Bush that was president. I would watch press conferences.

Yeah, but they become so much more fun when you're a bit high, don't they? Oh, well, they do. I think Clinton actually was president for most of that, but then I did it after college too. But I was curious as to what was going on, crazy thoughts and all this other stuff, but mostly pop.

But I've done mushrooms many times and I've done some other things over the years, but it wasn't really about that. It really was about the other thing that I did think that I would be outdated or something. And that was more of a concern to me. And by the way, I think that still exists to a certain degree because obviously there's a quality for gays now, which is great and I'm gay married.

So I'm a living version of why equality is important. But there are still people that are shamed into all kinds of signs, partly because what I'm talking about before that we're all dysfunctional, strange creatures and the people that seem to rise in the top are the people that really say the least and pretend that they're these cleaning things when really none of us are. Because they care the least about what, you know, about the wrongdoings they do. Maybe they don't even see them.

Yeah, that's very good. On themselves. I mean, because you're asking what Donald Trump's moral center is, I think that he's a perfect trickster archetype. The trickster is not moral or immoral.

It's an amoral, amoral character. It has no morals. It will do whatever it feels like at whatever time suits it best. So I think that's an interesting critique and I think you're pretty much on point, but I think there is a somewhat silver lining to that, which is that as a populist and as someone that really wants to be liked, I think those of us that actually want the country to be better, that want people to come together, that want to find some answers, that want to give more individual freedoms and things, I think if we could unify, we could actually, because he wants to be liked, I think we can nudge him in our direction as opposed to a pure ideologue who wouldn't care as much and just wants an agenda to be driven through.

So for example, I would say that Bernie is more of an ideologue. He has, he's a progressive ideologue. Now, that's different. I think you have a tougher problem when you're trying to mold someone like that.

Now, I could, look, I could be completely wrong and maybe we'll never get Trump to do anything good. It's so up in the air right now and there's such endless hysteria around him and so many people actually think that the president of the United States is a Russian puppet that so many people actually think this, that they're spending all day long screaming about this and tweeting about it and all this stuff and it's like, how about if you don't like Trump, now I understand that you don't like Trump, I think that's totally fine. It's a beautiful thing. You're kind of, it's a beautiful thing to want to fight the power and fight the presidency and all that.

Well, if you don't like Trump, the answer isn't to destroy the system, destroy the presidency, destroy the three branches of government and take out the president, take out the VP and eventually go after Paul Ryan once he's installed or whatever it is. That's not the answer. What the answer is, is what I would argue the answer is for almost any political problem right now, which is stop giving the government so much power. Stop giving the government the power to control everything about our lives.

That's not what our founding fathers intended and it is your duty to protect your liberty. So it's not about destroying the system. It's about going back and looking at the documents that set up this country and saying, you know what the president, if you love Trump, well guess what he's not going to be able to act as a king and you're just going to have to suck it up. But if you hate Trump, he also won't be able to destroy the republic.

That's what limited power is about. And that's what I think we should be focusing on instead of, you know, screaming about impeachment, which by the way, that's 100% what the democrats are going for. Yes, obviously they are. The only risk for them is if they don't have a watertight case, then he will be even more empowered if they go after him and fail.

Absolutely. He'll be more empowered. And also they may find because we do know that there's a lot of corruption on the democratic side as well. We know there was collusion between the Hillary campaign and CNN.

We know certain things through WikiLeaks emails and things like that. They may find that they're going to unfurl some of this stuff and it may end up pointing a lot back at them about collusion between the administration and the FBI and things of that nature. So, you know, you've got to be careful what you wish for. Indeed, you mentioned populism briefly in relation to Trump.

What is your view on populism? Well, it's funny because the word popular, if you're popular, it depends what you're popular for. So Michael Jordan was very popular for great reasons. He was the greatest basketball player to ever dribble a basketball.

That's a great reason to be popular. Hitler was very popular and we all know who Hitler is, not Hitler was popular for bad reasons. So the word populism is sort of strange in and of itself because I think right now through the way we see it in America through the mainstream media, there's a negative connotation to it. But somehow if you're popular, it's because you hate immigrants or you're too pro-America or something like that.

There's just some weird negative connotation attached to it. Now populism, I think you could be a man of the people and want to do things right for the people and still be a populist. Now that may not be what Trump is. It might be, but it might not be.

So it's hard to define the word itself. You know, if you are truly someone that is trying to give as much control back to the people over their own lives, over their own ability to have property and, you know, yes, I think we should have roads and all sorts of other things. I don't think there's no role for government. But if your goal basically is live and let live, which as I say on the show all the time, that really is liberalism, although people don't think so anymore, then I think you could be a populist.

Now what modern populism is, which we see sweeping across Europe and now creeping into America, that's not exactly the type of populism I want. But in a weird way, I understand it. I mean, if the left won't talk about the things that we know are a problem, if it won't talk about jihad and radicalismism and all of this stuff, well then good, decent people who are not bigots, by the way, and who are not racists, but see horrific things. I happen to come across on Twitter today up some of the video of what happened in London a couple of days ago, like actual, the stabbings, I don't know if you've seen them, but really for the stuff.

And if good people that are watching that who are not bigots who don't dislike the Muslim person that lives next door or anything like that, but want to see a real problem addressed, because Islamism is a political movement, it is not just a religion. Well, if the left won't deal with it at all, then you can't blame decent people who turn to populists in this sense, so meaning the le pens or the people that are more traditionally thought of on the right, they're just trying to defend their own countries the way they've always known them to be. And so, I've seen everything on the right where those populist movements are so pure and wonderful all the time. But this is why I've made it my mission for the last couple years to try to clean up the left, because if the left will deal with things honestly, I think that the answers of liberalism are the answers we need.

So I have great sympathy for these people that look at the left and they say, fuck this, I'm moving over to the right. I understand it, I've resisted it, I suppose at some level, but I understand it. Because you did work for Daily Show for a while back in the late 90s, right? Yeah, well I was intern over there at a really interesting time actually, because Craig Kilborn was the first host of the Daily Show, who was a guy that came over from SportsCenter on ESPN, who I really like.

And he had just left and John Stewart had just taken over. So it was an interesting time because their senses of humor were very different, there was a lot of turnover with the writers because their styles were very different. And the Daily Show wasn't what it eventually became at that point, it was just catching on, it was just at the beginnings of that. But it was great to be here.

But it is fair to call John Stewart a populist for the left, isn't it? Yeah, absolutely. And that's exactly my point, that's a great point. So there are populists on the left, the guy like John Stewart, he's giving you the exact populism of the left.

But if you were to say, to the average leftist, oh my God, that person's a populist, they would go, oh, that means they're somehow right wing. So you're making a great point and an important distinction there. But I had a couple of interruptions with John, and I'll tell you this, you'll appreciate this as a comic. I was young, I was just out of college, I guess.

And I was at a party and I went up to him. And again, he wasn't the John Stewart we all know now, but was certainly a celebrity and I was on TV show. And I said, hey, John, an intern here, my name's Dave, I'm on the stand up. I said, is there one bit of advice you could give me?

Which now in retrospect, that's a comic, sounds like the stupidest and most corny thing you could ever say to a comedian. But without pausing, without even thinking, he said two words, don't stop. And interestingly, it really that has so always resonated with me because what he's saying there is, yeah, it's going to suck. It's going to suck.

You're going to watch great comics, you know, disappear. You're going to watch guys that suck, get to the top. You're going to have to perform at shitty clubs. You're going to have to starve at times.

You're going to have to stand out on the street and hand out tickets and all these horrible things. But if you want it, you just can't stop. And that always stuck with me. And there were times, as I'm sure you felt, where I just didn't want to do it anymore.

And I couldn't believe that the struggles of it and all that stuff. And that just always stuck with me. Like don't stop if I ask this guy, who's now the basically the voice of American comedy, what his advice was, and then I don't take it, well, then what kind of person am I? So he did stick with me in a good way.

No, and I think he's right because I've been at this for long now. And by now, it seems that one is in a way, unstoppable. You are your own little show and it just goes on. You've got what you can do, Aaron.

What are your other skills? By now, I've burned every bridge there is to burn in Sweden. So I think I will have, I have no choice, basically. Usually when it comes to, you know, the kids, they say YOLO, you only live once.

Well, I think it is basically it's the terrors of my past and the bleakness of my future that keep me centered in the now. I hear you. Yeah. So, but I think what you said about populism is interesting because I think what happened in Europe at least after the Second World War was that the right wing, because Nazis on the European political scale is basically a right wing phenomenon.

I know that on your political scale, there are left wing phenomenon beyond communism, but in Europe, they're generally seen as a right wing thing. And I think after the Second World War, the political right wing parties of Europe had to deal with their Nazi and fascist heritage. They had to throw them out, the crazies basically. The left didn't have to do that with their communists and the revolutionaries and the radicals.

So they just kept on going. And when the Berlin Wall crashed in 1989, one would think that the socialist or socialist democratic parties of Europe would come to their senses and, you know, try to get their crazies at arm's length, so to speak. But they didn't. And I think that is a big reason why we're in this mess today.

I think that's a great, it's a great point. And I can give you the American version of that, which is happening right now. And I'll give you the exact moment when I realized it. So there was a moment during the campaign.

You may have seen this when Bernie Sanders was given a speech outdoors and the Black Lives Matter people just grabbed the mic and they started screaming in the mic. And he just stood there and took it. He just tried to stop them. His people didn't stop them.

They had absolutely no right to do this. Everyone was there to hear Bernie Sanders. Bernie Sanders, the farthest, left progressive, basically socialist politician we have in America. By the way, who's been in the Senate for 30 years and I think has one piece of legislation in his name, but everyone thinks he's the one that's going to bridge the divide.

No, that'll get fun. But that example to me was so obvious that the monster, you're right. They didn't take care of their monsters. So what happened was Bernie knew intuitively and his people knew if Bernie gets up there and shows some balls and does what's right and says, you know what, people are here to talk to me or hear me speak.

But you know what, at the end of this, we'll do a Q&A and I'll let you vent your feelings and we can have a discussion after or maybe a meeting. If Bernie had had balls and principles and done what's right, he could have put a little bit of a stop to that to that monster. But instead he just stood there because he didn't want the same tactics that the left has used for so long of calling everyone to race this big at home of full Islam, he didn't want that turned on him. So he knew if he grabs that mic and does what's right, does what's right that the people that are further left than him will turn on him and he will now be an old white guy who's grabbing a microphone from black people.

This is a crazy proposition, but it goes to exactly what you're saying. They never clean up their own side because it's made up of destroying people and they know the second they try to do that and this is what I've done, which is why everyone that hates me is on the left. Even though I'm gay, married, I'm pro-choice, I'm against the death penalty, I'm for social safety net and for single payer, health care, I'm for legalizing weed. I get no hype, hate.

You're an atheist. I'm an atheist. I get no hate from people on the right. Virtually none.

If anything, I get emails every day from Christian conservatives saying, you know what, I disagree with you on a lot of stuff, but it's very refreshing hearing a decent liberal. I get relentless hate now from people on the left. Take a look at my Twitter. It's a joy, really.

So I have to, I do follow you a little bit. So that's my point is that because they didn't clean up what they should have, they've been left with this monster and I've been predicting it for at least a year, but mark my words, they will throw Bernie out one day. This thing is going to get worse and they will get rid of Bernie one day too. By the way, they'll get rid of Elizabeth Warren and everyone else because this is a movement based on destruction and victimhood is their highest virtue and you can only play that victim card for so long.

So bye-bye Bernie who made a million bucks last year and has three houses and drives a $100,000 car and all that stuff, which I don't begrudge in any of that by the way. But once that's out there really and he's going to slip up one day and you know, he gave the mildest couple months ago, the mildest, mildest defense of Israel and you know, the left despises Israel now because it represents freedom in a terrible part of the world. And they turned on him because of that. I saw an article in Salon about how if Bernie doesn't accept intersectionality, he can't be a progressive.

I mean, they will turn on him and I have to say I'll enjoy it when they do. But how did you get so bad in the United States? Because when I started the constructive criticism in one of the earlier episodes, I said something along the lines of I used to think McCarthyism was bad. But lately I've been feeling maybe he had the right idea he was just a bit ahead of his time.

So in Europe we never dealt with socialism but Americans, you really dealt with socialism in a very harsh way. How come this is happening now? How can this have spread so far through your system? Well, I think it has a lot to do with what I was saying about hashtag resistance and the idea that these are these ideas, this oppression Olympic stuff, this intersectionality stuff viewing everyone on their immutable characteristics.

You know, they the left will scream that everyone on the right is racist and they're the ones who constantly are looking at everyone's sexuality and race and color and all those things. And whether you have to do it, you have a limp or not because then we have to judge you differently in all this nonsense. This stuff got so entrenched in Hollywood, in the media and all of this that it has become a monolith of a monster. And a great example of this to go back a few minutes to John Stewart.

Watch ION Hersey Ali on Daily Show from a couple years ago. It is horrible. John, it is the single worst moment I've ever seen of John. He is so dismissive of ION and because she doesn't play the identity politics game and she goes in there and talks about the individual.

She talks about radical Islam. I'm sure I don't have to tell you your audience the story about her. I mean, this is a woman who has lived through it and there are dead bodies to prove it and go undergoing female genital mutilation and all that. I will try to get her on the show actually.

But I haven't. I haven't. Hopefully you'll get her at some point. She's a wonderful and a true hero and a true feminist by the way and a true individualist who I would vote to be president in a second, although she technically wasn't born in America but watch this interview and he's dicing up and playing the identity politics game.

He's everything that people don't like about elite leftist liberals. And at the end, he basically says to her, it ends by him saying, well, you're just trying to sell some books. I've never seen him that disrespectful or dishonest or smug to any other guest ever, including plenty of people on the right and Republicans and all that. But my point in this is that this is what's happened.

This is the guy who was thought of as the conscience of America for the last 10 years and all this stuff. And by the way, by me even telling the story, I'll get a certain amount of A because you can't not say anything about him. I respect him actually and I would love to have him on the show and I would try to unpack that whole situation. But to your point, this thing became so monstrous that right now the left will look at someone like Linda Sarsour who is an Islamist and think that she's a feminist and they'll look at Ion Hersialli and the Southern Poverty Law Center will put him on an anti-Muslim extremist list.

So everything's backwards and in a time when everything's backwards, if you bring a little sanity to the situation like you're trying to do like I'm trying to do like some other people trying to do, there's a price to pay for it. But at the same time, it's also why we have some traction behind what we're doing because a little sanity and in time of insanity offers a nice reprieve for people. Because this is the thing, what I wanted to warn you about also in your show and I hope at least some of my warnings were heated is socialism is a collectivist ideology. So they never really see individuals and then every new person a collectivist will meet, they will ask, so what group are you from?

You understand what sex are you, what religion do you have, what football team are you rooting for because these things will define you, they will never ask about your character traits like are you smart or are you nice or are you? You understand and I think this is somehow it has crept into American universities. I was in Canada for a year when I was at university studying there and I was studying film theory, is that what I'm studying? Yeah.

And I had just come from Marxist Sweden where I expect to be served a sort of buffet of post-modern theories in every kind of education I get. I have an astrophinanist as well and we had some gender in that too. Yeah, money apparently can be gendered. So I came to Canada and Canada is part of the Commonwealth.

I said, okay, so that must be British socialism just creeping into Canada. But how, where does it start for you? For me, it's, I want to find the root because if you find the root, maybe you can put it out. Yeah, you know, I don't know that I have the exact answer to that as to where this started in America.

I've heard a lot of theories on this and people have different start points. For me at this point, although I agree with the general principle, yeah, if we could find the exact moment and really expose it, yeah, you go to the root and that's how you tear up the whole evil tree. But at this point, since I don't have the perfect answer for that and maybe I'll explore that a little bit more because I think it's a good question. What I've consistently tried to do is show people that the things that you just mentioned about collectivism, about viewing these people as these labels as instead of as individuals, that this is the most dangerous ideology.

You, Aaron, phlegm represent to me, nobody other than yourself. You don't represent a white person. You don't represent Sweden. You don't represent all Jews or anything of that nature.

You represent you. And just look, you're actually a great example of this because the things that you're talking about are not representative of what the average you is talking about. You're not representative of what the average white person is talking about. They're certainly not representative of what the average Swedish person is talking about.

So that in and of itself is a great way to destroy this ideology. I think you have to make it personal, which is why I constantly feel like for me, I have to. But you're a very nice person. I mean, I've seen you even when you meet someone you don't agree with.

You're extremely, I mean, you're a joy to watch. You're very sympathetic. Yeah, well, thank you. I mean, my feeling is yes, we live in a world where not everyone's going to agree with me.

And I would never want to live in a world where everyone agreed with me. That would mean something has gone very wrong with the human brain, if everyone is walking around agreeing with David Rumin. So I don't mind. I'm not people.

You are here at my studio in my home. I am married to a man here. I have had people here in my home who are not for gay marriage. I had Bishop Baron from the Archdiocese of LA here telling you why he was not for gay marriage.

Now, what would be the purpose of me sitting across from this guy? I think how pompous and insane it would be from you have thought before he walks in. You know what? I'm going to get this guy.

I'm going to get the bishop to turn away from Catholicism and whatever the church has told him, I'm going to get him to say that the Pope's an asshole. I mean, that it's absurd. I don't mean the Pope's an asshole. But my point is that it's just an absolutely absurd premise.

So what I can do is sit across from this guy, tell him my feelings, ask for his feelings. Now my audience can go, all right, well, they can either go, you know, David's a fool or this guy's logic doesn't make sense or whatever. And by the way, the most interesting part of the interview with him was that I got a ton, as I mentioned before, I got a ton of emails from Christian conservatives saying, you know, I don't even agree with gay marriage, but it was so nice to hear that. And I'll think a little differently about this or that.

Ironically, Bishop Barron got in a ton of hot water because I got him basically to say that his head and his heart weren't totally in the same place on this, which for a Catholic bishop is a far, he's a representative of the church. He's a far place to go to sit across from a gay person and say that. So I think that's how you get wins. The idea that I would have walked in there to somehow get him or be offended by what he believes, you know what?

He believes something. Okay, we live in a democracy. The thing that I believe in that has allowed me to be married has passed. It's passed the law.

So I suppose if it was five years ago and I sat down with him, maybe I would have had a little more of an axe to grind. But I think when the arc of justice bends in your direction, you should try to be a little, you should try to acknowledge that and change along with it. So it's just kind of built into me, I guess, not to say I don't get angry and pissed at people. I mean, you were at the Young Turks for a while, and that's basically when you, to use a half post terminology, woke.

Yes. Yeah. And I guess it was the host of the Young Turks. I don't want to miss it.

I'd like to pronounce his name, actually. And then I'll say it properly. Yes, what? Yes, yes, yes.

Yes. No, no, it's Jake Yuger. It's Jake Yuger. Yeah.

Okay. There's a fair share of weird case in there and sees, isn't there? There's a couple of sees and a why that I guess is a little confusing for people. Okay.

But you work for them for a while. And then it was the Sam Harris interview that sort of woke you up. Yeah, you know, there were a couple moments that had happened before that where I, there were things that I didn't like where I realized I would be on air with them. And I realized, and I had many private conversations with some of the hosts who no longer will talk to me who now say I'm a bigoted racist and, you know, if I'm following me on Twitter and be friended me on this or that, I would get into arguments or even have to get arguments.

I would get into discussions privately with some of them, you're sometimes smoking a joint or having a drink. And I realized that many of them, and I mean this, many of them had no idea what they were talking about politically, that they would say whatever they felt and they would do that very well. But there was no political ideology. There was no sense of history in many cases.

And I'm not in this case, I won't throw anyone, I won't talk shit about anyone specifically, although I will address Jank. But that people that genuinely didn't know history, didn't know basic fundamental things about our government that would then go on this show and pretend that they were experts in this. So that was bothering me. But yeah, the Sam Harris thing was the real moment for me because I did not even know, I've told the story a few times, I'll try to make it look quick, but I didn't even know who Sam was the night of that he was on real time with Lamar.

I think maybe I'd heard of him, but I had no, I didn't certainly wasn't fan of his. I didn't really know anything about him. And I watched that episode live and Ben Affleck then calls him and Bill Maher grossing racist and all hell breaks loose. And then suddenly in the next couple weeks in the papers and then online Bill Maher is defending himself from being racist, which Bill Maher had been the standard bearer of the left.

Now there's some interesting things going on with Bill now, which we can get into. But then this guy Sam Harris who said nothing right, first off Islam is in a race, putting that aside because people are idiots, he said nothing bigoted or prejudice. He quoted pew statistics to try to have an honest discussion about something that's on people's minds. And then Jank unfortunately went all in on it, endlessly lied, selectively edited videos, made it extremely personal.

And then the final straw was he sat down with Sam for three hours. Sam laid out. I saw that one. Yeah.

I mean, I was still working there at the time and you know, Sam laid out everything for three hours with no editing, completely calm, answered every question. There's a point about 20 minutes in. I welcome your audience to watch where it's Jankton eyes probability theory. I mean, he really just, he just doesn't know what he's saying and he thinks he knows everything.

And Sam just destroys him. And at the end of that, I thought I cannot work here anymore. And then soon after that, the Charlie Hebdo thing happened and there was a, there were people on air saying that you shouldn't draw these cartoons, which is the worst type of soft bigotry of low expectations. And then by the way, although obviously it's gotten sort of nasty between the two of us, I publicly tried to reach out to him many times before it got nasty in a very pleasant way.

I said, you know, Jank, I think people are attacking you because this, this, this and this. And he just refused. And then, and then it just got worse. But yeah, I don't think he's a good person.

And I don't, and I think they're, they're doing a lot of bad misinformation to people. Yeah. I, I recognize that. I don't know if Jank is a good person or not, but I, I know of several colleagues here in Sweden that have had maybe one routine about racism or left or that they're leftists or whatever, and they get hijacked by these movements and made into gods and surrounded by sycophants.

And after a while, they become bad people anyway. Yeah. Well, that's a great point. And just real quick on the, on the update on Bill Maher.

I mean, Bill Maher, I actually think that at this point as a class at a liberal, I'm now to the right of Bill. I used to agree with him on everything. But I think what's funny about his situation right now is my one criticism of Bill over these last 20 years, and by the way, I totally admire him. Can we just quick for the audience tell them what Bill Maher has done?

So Bill Moore had an interview with a, is he a Senator? Yeah, Senator Ben Sasser, the Republican Senator. Yeah. And he ended the interview by saying, well, I'm a house singer, basically.

Yeah. So I'm not going to say it because I know if I even quoted that, that's, you know, I'm glad you say it. I was, I wasn't quoting Bill Maher. I was actually quoting Malcolm X now.

But being, because that's what he was referencing, isn't it? The field Negro versus house Negro speech by Malcolm X. Of course. And think about how idiot it is.

So first off, he didn't call anyone the word. He wasn't calling a group of people that were using it in a race on London. You can, you can say the joke was stupid or import a story or any of that stuff. But this, this outrage machine that blows up on him, I saw comedians who I know, who are friends of mine, who are popular people calling for him to be fired.

Bill Maher has stood for every leftist principle for the last 30 years, probably more publicly than anyone else in America. He has, oh, you know, you may argue, I think you can make great arguments now about why the Democrats have done a lot of bad things racially for, and the left has done a lot of bad things racially for the black community. But you cannot argue that Bill's intentions have always been to protect minorities, to stop United States imperialism, to be for gay people and be for black people and all of these things. Now, you may argue that his intentions are, don't match what reality is.

Okay, fine. But this is a guy who I totally respect. I hope he'll be on my show. I hope I'll be on his show.

And even though I have difference with him, I think that's totally fine. I think his one mistake over the last couple of years is partly why he's being eaten right now. He did play in the game of calling people racist and bigots when they're not. So if you watch his show, he often will call all Republicans racist or backwards redneck, you know, sister fucking drug addict, whatever.

So now those tactics are now being used against him because he was using a tactic of the left when he was in lockstep with him. Then he started talking about radical Islam. So that they've been waiting. The left has been waiting to find something on Bill that they could destroy him on.

And I think this is what this is the one that they're going to keep going on. And I hope it doesn't work. And by the way, if I sat down with Bill, which I hope we will, I would love to discuss this with him. And I would do it in the most respectful, honest way of a true critique because these are the tactics that are being used against him right now.

But the idea that this guy somehow racist or bigoted, resa Aslan, who's a really awful guy. I know who he is. Yeah, who has a show on CNN and is a hero of the left right now and he's one of the biggest slanders and still is he still a hero? I thought you had deconstructed him.

Well, he's taken major hits because of I think some of the things that Sam and I and a few other people have exposed him on. But yeah, he's still thought of as one of these people. But he used to go on Bill's show all the time. And I've read articles where he would refer to him as my friend Bill Maher.

He was talking about what a racist bill is this week. So it's just garbage. And beyond everything else, as a comic, there was a difference between a joke and a true racist thing, which is why I 100% stand with your most famous man in all of your country, PewDiePie, because he was making a joke. And even if, even if, and I don't believe this to be true, but even if PewDiePie secretly had something against Jews, guess what?

You're still allowed to make the joke. And Jews have a history of being slaughtered and pogrommed and sent to ovens and all sorts of horrible shit. Guess what? We're pretty much tough enough to take a joke.

And that's one thing I never want Jews to get rid of. There's a reason that nine out of ten great comics is Jewish. And it's because we know how to take a joke because pain, if you deal with it, is funny. And if it's not funny, you end up in a mental institution or drugging yourself.

And I would much rather be funny than be dead or be self-righteous. Absolutely. And I think they have been sharpening their knives against Bill for quite some time. I mean, he's always been anti-PC, which is kind of a leftist policy, isn't it?

Yeah, absolutely. By the way, for people think that maybe we're overblowing this. I mean, I can tell you this, the people, if I look right now, I mean, you could do this, put Bill's name in on Twitter right now and search his name. And every bit of hate you will see against him will be from someone on the left.

It will not be from someone on the right. And that's the irony. That's the irony because we live in a time where the right at the moment in America is more of a defender of free speech and the left is not. And this is again why I've been trying to clean this up.

But if you want equality for all people, Bill Maher is not your enemy. But you know what? If you want to find enemies everywhere, then go have at it. Yes, indeed.

There's so much going on right now in the world. So you asked me if I saw any hope anywhere. And I told you that my only hope is that I will be able to tell everyone I told you so at the end of my life, which seemed to depress you a bit. Personally, being at heart as cynic, I don't think hope is necessary to take responsibility or just trojon because I think survival is biologically programming to our species.

So it doesn't really matter if we have hope or not. We're just supposed to survive for as long as possible and provide the best possible life for our children so they can do the same, which may sound a bit depressing, I know. But it consoles me at night. So do you see any hope for the future now?

Man, you know, it's funny you describe yourself as a cynic at heart. I think I'm actually an optimist at heart, but I'm a realist also, which, you know, it's a fine line between being a realist and a cynic. Look, if I didn't have hope, I don't know what the purpose would be of me doing any of this. If I didn't have hope that you can change minds and that we can fight the stem of this, we can fight the tide of this, well, I guess I could probably do something else that I'd be a totally private person that would just live out my days and spend more time in my garden or something and probably practice basketball more than I do now.

So I have hope because I've seen it. I've seen the fruits of saying what I believe and then seeing that it changes minds. I've seen my own political evolution over the last couple of years. You know, there's a moment on my show from about two years ago when I still was not fully woke or red-pilled, as the kids say, and I had Larry Elderon, who happens to be a black conservative, and he really smashed me over the head with some numbers and some facts.

And we could have edited it out of the show. It was not my best moment. I mean, I look foolish, actually. I did not look like I was armed for the intellectual battle, and I sent to my guys, we're leaving that because it was a teachable moment for me, and I think it'll be a teachable moment for other people.

Many people have mirrored that clip on YouTube, and there's many, many versions of it that have hundreds of thousands of millions of views on YouTube and Facebook. And so I know that I have learned and changed over these past couple of years. So I know that many people that message me have done the same. So I do think we can fight this, and I think we have no choice.

If what would be the purpose of bringing a child into this world? What would be the purpose of doing anything? What would be the purpose of being a successful businessman if you do that on your deathbed, the things that you fought for, would all be handed off to a world that would only destroy those things? So I'm an optimist in that way, but as a realist slash cynic in another way, we have a massive battle to fight.

But it's sort of what I said to you before, and your answer is kind of good. It's like, there's nothing else I can do at this point. What else can I do? Where else can I go?

It's too late. I'm in already. And I think that's also the scary part for people is that when they get this woke thing, you see so much nonsense crumbled around you. And there's a piece of you.

I know this because it's, I feel it too sometimes. I'll see things now and I'll go, man, fuck, I wish I didn't see that in a way. I don't mean it in the end truth, but there's a piece of me that says, I wish I didn't see that because once you realize the bullshit and see that the bad guys that you've been taught or the bad guys aren't the bad guys and that the system and the powers that be aren't the system that you thought they were, you see it everywhere and it will cost you friends and it could cost you other relationships. It could cost you jobs and all of those things.

And you just have no choice though. Once you see it, you can't, you know, if a wave's coming, you can't put it in a small cup. And that's it. Well, yeah, I think you have more of a moral center and integrity than most people.

I think a lot of people actually, at least in this country, see it but are too afraid to act or to take that step because it means losing jobs, losing family, losing friends, taking a stand. That's what it does to people. And when it comes to hope, I will tell you not to debate them, but sort of what my grandmother who was in Auschwitz for a while and when her youth told me about fighting for survival and that is you don't need to fight for a better world. You just need to fight every day at your utmost so it doesn't get worse.

Because it can get worse at every single point in time. That's pretty beautiful. And I think that's true. I like that.

And maybe I'll quote you quoting your grandmother on that and obviously she lived through something that fortunately we've never lived through. But you just never know what can happen in this world. This world is capable of great evil. And I think you just, I don't know where this comes from within me.

I'm just some guy. The only reason you are in Flint and Sweden know who I am is because for some point I decided to make a YouTube channel and start saying what I think. That's all I do. I always think it's really funny.

There's this like cadre of like 20 Twitter people, almost all of them anonymous who just hate me and they clip all my stuff and they selectively edit my stuff and they twist my words and they all of the shit. And I'm like, wow, you guys are so devoted to making me the enemy. And it's like I'm actually not looking for enemies. And if you don't like what I'm doing, there's ways to reach out to me in an honest thoughtful way that I will respond to and I would respond to.

But if you want to find enemies everywhere, then you will. And to bring this back slightly to Bill Marford's second, he did a piece about two or three months ago where he said that the problem of the left is that the whole house is burning down and they're all standing in the corner trying to clean up the dust. But the whole freaking thing is on its way down crumbling and we're all arguing over how do we get that little dust bin out of here. And I think that very much is what's happening right now.

All I tried to do is tell people what I think and try to fight for the little guys that I believe. Am I right about everything? I'm sure I'm not. I have plenty of people on the right that respectfully disagree with me because I'm pro-choice, which I think is a horrific choice to have to make by the way, but I just believe that the choice should be with the woman.

But all of those things, those are all negotiable things in a pluralistic society that we have to fight through. But that's why I think the freedom of speech thing is the most important thing and I think it's why it's so important to you. You know, very obviously in a country that is so interested in just acceptance and collective thinking, well, that if we can't speak freely, there will always be worse people ready to silence us in other ways. So it's like if you think that it's bad to throw gays off of bridges or buildings in Saudi Arabia, well, then when those ideas start taking root in your country, they're not going to start throwing off gays off roofs on day one, but they will slowly start taking those rights away.

And this is why I've actually seen an interesting split in some minority communities lately. I think the black community right now is having an interesting split and they're shifting a little more towards libertarianism or real liberalism. I think the Jewish community is having it. I think the gay community is having it.

I think certain minority communities are suddenly seeing that we can't hold Islam at the height of what we can't talk about if it's going to oppress the rest of us. And that should be obvious to anyone. And that doesn't mean that you're your neighbor who's Muslim who invites you over to celebrate the end of Eid. That doesn't mean he's a bad guy.

I would suspect he's probably not a bad guy, but we should be allowed to talk about bad ideas because otherwise they will just grow in faster. No, I think you're absolutely right. And I want to tell you that I discovered your show this Christmas and I fell in love with it and you immediately. It's what I'm guessing a lot of people write and tell you.

It's a breath of fresh air. And I was worried, really, really worried last year because I didn't see anyone in the United States and I've always had a high admiration for your political discourse, your thinking, your philosophy. And I was worried that it had disappeared completely and then you came up on my screen. So I want to thank you for that, Dave.

Well, I thank you for your kind words. And this is what it's about. We're doing right now, whether 10 people listen to this or whether only 100 people listen to you on my show, we're at least having the balls to say what we think. And if that, if just not alone can spark anyone else to do that, we're not going to be here forever.

And it's sort of depressing, but they can't get all of us. The people who have bad ideas and bad intentions and who would use violence to silence people, they can't get all of us. So if just more people would stand up and say, that's what, this is my point. It's like, I'm not really saying anything controversial.

I don't think. And yet, I'm positioned as someone that's controversial. And I find that actually very funny. I don't take any pleasure in upsetting people and I don't take any pleasure really.

Even though I come from comedy, the way I always said it was never intentionally controversial. But now just by saying simple truths, it's thought of as controversial or it's thought of as ballsy or gutsy. But we just need more people to do it. Guess what?

If you think that if you're going to say something and you're going to get fired from your job, it's going to be much worse for your kid. So you've got to do it now while you have. It's exactly what your grandmother said, actually. It's a beautiful quote.

And it also goes to why, why these jokes, you know, PewDiePie jokes don't offend me. Guess what? Your grandmother went through something a lot worse than you're going through right now. It was only good ideas that made the world better for you.

And that's why we got to fight for good ideas. That is so true. If you, if one of our listeners was offended by the PewDiePie joke, they should have heard my grandmother's Holocaust joke. They were horrifying.

She had a very dark sense of humor. Anyway, I really want to thank you. And I think that it's so nice that you do a show that is long format so you let people speak their mind and you get more than these clips of sound bites that you come across online all the time. Well, thank you.

If I come busy, you went sweetened. Am I on the list? Am I they going to take me right at the airport? No, they're just going to be super passive aggressive.

And no, they won't take you. And I do hope you come to Sweden. And if you do, I'd like to host you and show you around. And I also hope...

Maybe I'll take you up on that. But if not, maybe we'll just meet an Amsterdam. I feel like we could get some good work done over there. Absolutely.

And I hope this wasn't the last time we talked or, well, we didn't see each other now, but see, so each other. I suspect we shall do this again. I hope so. And good luck with all your endeavors.

And I hope this episode will make more people in Sweden aware of your program and your deeds. Alright, thanks a lot, my friend. If you have listened to deconstructive criticism or in Swedish the constructive critic, if you like, please support me on Patreon until next time. Don't forget to subscribe to our channel for more videos.