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Featuring a haunting original score and spatial Dobie Atmos sound design, Bram Stoker's Dracula invites you to feel the terror of being hunted and the thrill of the hunt. Now on Audible, listen to the darkness. Go to audible.ca slash listen to Dracula. This is a paid ad by BetterHelp. You know those super awkward moments that you just wake up in the middle of the night thinking about? Like for example, when I used to be a server, sometimes I would just walk up to a table and jumble my words so badly that I'd essentially say, and I wake up in the middle of the night and I think about that all the time. I wish I could delete that from my brain. But the good news is by connecting you to a qualified therapist online, BetterHelp can help you find an experienced professional to talk through the thoughts that are taking up way too much mental real estate.
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This is morbid. Oh, that's like Trixie and Katya show. Oh, yeah. Because it's their show, not yours. Oh, they're so funny. I love them a lot. They make me laugh. They're kind of like us, actually. They are. I saw, I don't know if it's recent or not. I saw a clip of their show the other day and I think Katya was house-sitting for Trixie and Trixie was like a little intense and Katya was like, I can't handle this. And I was like, that is us. Yes. Not that you're intense about your home, but you're just intense period. Just intense period. Period. And I feel like the aesthetic is very similar. But you're Katya in that sense. Yes, exactly. And I'm like, Trixie, Trixie, Trixie.
Oh, yeah. I don't think, I mean, we got some good stuff happening, but it's in the background and will be something you guys know about in a little while. Yeah, like months. But like, well, but be psyched about that. Yeah. It's pretty cool. My water is loud. It's loud. My water is loud. Covering it is loud. But if I leave it uncovered, I'll throw it. There's cool stuff happening that, you know, we'll let you know about. Don't worry. Soon enough. It's like the Tobias thing. Don't worry, you'll find out. Yeah. We'll always tell you. TLDR. Don't worry. Also, how cool is that?
I know that happened weeks ago. She said, I'm just going to slide that in there. Still very cool. How cool was that? How cool was that? Check that out. No, that was pretty cool. But yeah. I'm trying to think of any other updates that could be coming your way. I can't think of anything right now. Anything to talk about? I was going to apologize because I'm a little bit sick, so my voice might be a little bit annoying, but also I find it kind of sultry. I was just going to say you're sultry. Thank you. So I'm sure everyone will agree. Thank you. Yeah.
That plane is a plane landing at my house right now. I apologize. She said, well, she really said, I'm flying. We're saying, are you okay up there? I do. Are you all right? Yellow jackets? How's everyone doing flying? How are you guys doing? I'm just not, period. I'm still scared. Remain scared. I remain scared. Drew and I are going on a trip in a couple of weeks and I will not fly. We're driving. But how are you guys doing? Is anybody else, anybody have any tips, tricks, anything that's making you feel better about it? Right now, no.
One thing I can tell you, in case anybody else shares, which I know you do, shares my fear of flying and this, you know, gestures broadly at the world has made it worse lately. Follow some pilots on TikTok. Okay. I'll start. You know what I'm going to do for you guys? Because it's helped me and I want to share the love. Wow, look at you. I'm going to start sharing on my story some pilots that I follow in case anybody needs some, like, help getting through it. Because Mikey's just playing music over there. He's like, shut the fuck up, Alina. You're fired.
No, but I'll start sharing it because they have helped me. They kind of bring you back to reality for the situation because right now it's so scary. But they'll bring you back to a place of at least being able to be like, okay, someday I will step on a plane again. Well, I think it might be helpful. Right now is obviously scary, but it's also like being so...
Well, it's among everything. It's so prominent right now. And it's just among all the chaos. So I think it's definitely, it's a problem. That's for sure. But I think it's, it can, pilots, like actual people who do this all the time, if you're listening and you're a pilot, like, we're pouring one out for you. Superhero. Shout out. Superhero. But they can bring you to a place of like, okay, like this isn't where we're going to be okay. So I'll start sharing them on my stories if you need.
You're so kind. If you need some help because it's helpful. That's one thing I love TikTok for is like that kind of shit. Oh, bitch. I love TikTok. That's the one streaming thing I keep. Yeah, I do love a TikTok moment. Social media thing. I love it for the recipes, for the pilots that tell me everything's going to be okay. I love it for organizations. And organizations. What did you say? I said organizations. Like organizing TikTok. Those organizations. I got too much sleep last night. Sometimes that is detrimental. No, I actually believe sometimes that I perform better on less sleep and then I'll get more sleep and I'm like, oh, maybe don't talk to me today. Yeah, we went to, we actually went to bed at like a decent time like upstairs to sleep because like.
We always just try to get like as much time. Like when the kids go to sleep, we try to like make the most of the time between then and when we have to go to bed, like get things done that we can't get done while the kids are awake. So it's like it's hard because you want to like use up all that time. Like we'll try to watch the shows we can't watch when they're awake, you know, like all that stuff. But it's not really great when I'm going up to bed at like midnight every night. And then waking up like super early. Because then you wake up early with kids. So it's like whatever. But we went up a little early last night and I have my little watch that like tracks sleep. And it told me I got like five and a half hours of core sleep. Damn. Which I think is like pretty.
Fucking rad. The competition girly in me just wants to start wearing a watch when I sleep to be like, I got more sleep than you. You probably would. I would, yeah. But I'd win, so. Yeah, you would. I'll stay with that. Would it feel like a win? Yeah, I would. I'll take that win. You gotta take a W's where you can get them. It's true. Right now, especially, we gotta take all the W's again. I'll scoop that W right up. Speaking of W's and the opposite of them, which is an L's. Wait, like a loss.
The way you looked at me like, what? I was like, how is it an L? That's fair. I'm sick. Okay. She's on that cold medicine. So speaking of L's, like losers, we're talking about David Kappender. Oh. The trail side killer here. Yikes. He's a big L. He's a M maniac. There you go. How about that? There you go. Yeah, he's definitely an M. He's an L. He's nothing good. And when we last talked to you about him.
He had been released on parole. Which was crazy. Because one thing about this case is it's a prime example of the system failing on an extraordinary level. Yikes. I mean, failing superbly into oblivion. I have one of those coming up too. Yeah, several times they should have kept this guy behind bars and they just kept letting him out, kept giving him slaps on the wrist. For like rape and that kind of thing. Yeah, and he kept escalating too. It's like, what are you doing? And when we last talked about this, we talked about Etta Kane and John Kane, the couple who were very established hikers.
Etta had gone out by herself and she hadn't returned home. They had eventually found Etta dead, unfortunately. And when we last talked about it, poor John had just kind of like withered away after she died. It's very, very sad. Now, that had happened in like early fall. Now, a few weeks later on September 6th, David Carpenter was discharged from the halfway house because remember he had been paroled to a halfway house where he was being like conditioned to kind of go out back into society. It was a specific halfway house that was for like felons who were being reintroduced into society. He never should have been among them.
He should have been kept in jail. Yeah, no, he's not the kind of person that can be reformed. No. So he was discharged from the halfway house and returned to his parents' house. Which I was like, ooh.
His former probation officer, Rich Wood, said, I'd gone over to the house a number of times before he got home from work. I talked to the parents to see how he was doing. And as far as anyone would say, him moving back into the house had really not caused any problems and things seemed to be going well. That's really all they could go on at that point. A few months later, in February 1980, David found work in a keychain distributor and seemed to be meeting all the requirements for his parole. But this is kind of what he does. He meets all the points that he has to. And then something happens and he just flips a switch. That's the problem.
Now, on the morning of March 8, 1980, Barbara Schwartz went out for a jog on the trails of Mount Tam. That afternoon, another hiker on the trail spotted 23-year-old Barbara arguing with a man who appeared to be in his 20s, according to this person. Then the man pulled a knife from his belt and started stabbing Barbara out of nowhere. By the time the police arrived to the spot, because they immediately called the police, by the time they got to the spot where Barbara had been last seen, her attacker was nowhere to be seen and Barbara had bled to death from multiple stab wounds. Oh my God. Where she was stabbed, yeah. Barbara Schwartz's death was the second murder on the mountain in a pretty short period of time. And like we had talked about before, there had been deaths on this mountain, of course. But as far as they knew, there wasn't any murders before this. Right.
But unlike Etta Cain's murder, this time there was evidence recovered at the scene. In addition to finding a butcher knife that investigators were virtually certain was the murder weapon, they also found a pair of blood-stained eyeglasses. Oh, shit. That'll tell you a lot. Which is always wild when they are in such a frenzy that they leave something that important. Now, there's no way of knowing who these glasses belonged to, but the prescription was a very heavy bifocal that, if matched to the right person, could be a very compelling evidence if it was in a trial. This is not a regular bifocal. It's a very thick, heavy bifocal.
Now, in their first examination of the body, it looked like Barbara had gone to great lengths to fight back. Sergeant Keating said she was repeatedly stabbed, but she put up a hell of a fight. Now, based on her defensive wounds, sheriff's detectives actually strongly suspected that Barbara's killer had most likely, very likely been wounded in this attack. Good. Yeah. Now, that night, a little past 7 p.m., David Carpenter arrived at the emergency room. Oh, imagine that. In Peninsula Hospital in San Mateo, about 35 miles from where Barbara Schwartz's body had been discovered. Stupid ass. He had a deep cut on his right hand and his thumb. When the attending doctor asked how he got this injury, David said, quote, there was an attempted robbery at a 7-Eleven store in Burlingham.
Burlingame, excuse me. I was attacked and injured by the holdup man. Now, so he's claiming I tried to stop a holdup. I am a hero. I'm a hero. And I got hurt there. So the hospital policy was that any injuries sustained during an illegal act had to be reported to police. That makes sense. So the doctor did that. Despite no report of a robbery ever having been received in that area, the officers that interviewed David Carpenter just accepted his story.
And they allowed him to go on his way after being stitched up. So they saw that there was no reports of a robbery there. And they just said, okie doke. He said it though. They could have stopped him right now. Yeah, of course. When I tell you the failures at every single layer here. That's also just wild. Like you would think that that would hold him up for a little while. Yeah, you would think. No, they just let him go. He got stitched up, let him go. And the doctor did his job. He called them to try to figure out what was going on. Right.
Morbid is brought to you by Audible. He lurks in the shadow. He slips into dreams. He casts no reflection. Audible presents Bram Stoker's Dracula, a new full-cast audio thriller starring Jonathan Bailey as Dracula, Ella Purnell as Mina Harker, Maggie Gyllenhaal as Van Helsing, and more. When Mina's fiancé vanishes in Transylvania, she pieces together letters, diary entries, and chilling testimony to hunt the predator stalking those she loves, only to discover Dracula is already hunting her. Joined by the enigmatic Van Helsing, Mina and a fearless band race against time to stop an ancient terror. Her intellect and resolve may hold the key to bringing down the count if he hasn't already found his way inside her mind.
Featuring a haunting original score and spatial Dobie Atmos sound design, Bram Stoker's Dracula invites you to feel the terror of being hunted and the thrill of the hunt. Now on Audible, listen to the darkness. Go to audible.ca slash listen to Dracula. This holiday season, it's not just about what you want. With Amazon Prime, it's about how you want to feel. In the mood for a little excitement? Stream thrilling movies, shows, and sports on Prime Video. Feeling cozy? Get everything you need for the perfect night in. Delivered fast with Prime. Because whether you're looking for a little holiday magic or a much-needed moment to unwind, Prime helps get you the feeling you crave. From streaming to fast shipping, it's on Prime.
So it wasn't until the next day that San Mateo police received the all points bulletin about Barbara's murder. And by then, the interviewing officers had completely forgotten about him. Like they just didn't even, they didn't even put the pieces together. Come on. So things were relatively quiet in the months after Barbara Schwartz's murder. Detectives continued investigating her murder and the murder of Etta Kane. But without any new information or evidence, they really weren't going to be able to get anywhere. Then in October, the sheriff's department got another call about someone having gone missing at Mount Tam. This time it was a couple. Oh. 19-year-old Rick Stowers and his girlfriend, 18-year-old Cindy Moreland. Okay.
So the couple had just been, they'd just gotten engaged. Oh. And Rick had gotten his orders from the Coast Guard that were going to require him to report for his latest position at Point Reyes, which was a small coastal village about, you know, an hour outside of San Francisco. Okay. On the morning of October 8th...
Rick had picked up Cindy, and they were headed out to Point Reyes to kind of check out the area, see where they were going to be staying. So later that afternoon, they were shopping in that area, and another couple saw them at a bookstore in town. Then they were seen a little bit later than that by two hikers, Sharon Melnick and Larry Drapkin. They saw them on Bear Valley Trail. A little later, Melnick and Drapkin were hiking when they heard a succession of loud booms. Later, they said they sounded like noises in rapid succession from a backfiring motorcycle. But they couldn't really tell where it was coming from. They were having trouble.
pinpointing it. Because sometimes when you're in an area like that, sounds sound like they're coming from either one place when it's a totally opposite one, or they sound like they're coming from everywhere. Even certain sounds, I feel like, do that. We'll be watching TV sometimes, and it's a sound on TV that sounds like it's coming from the back of our house. Yes, that happens to us all the time, too. I think it's the girls coming down or yelling my name or something, and we'll always be pausing and listening or going upstairs. There's so many times where I'm like, was that our alarm? Yeah, I'm like, what the fuck was that? So that evening, Rick and Cindy had plans to meet Cindy's sister, Alice, for dinner. And when they didn't show up...
she got very worried. And around 9 p.m., she called her brother and explained the situation. But he was like, I don't know, don't overreact. He was like, maybe wait until tomorrow, see if Cindy shows up for work. Which I was like, okay. I don't really understand that. But Alice said, Cindy was supposed to work at her job on Sunday morning. I was a little overprotective, I think, and I didn't want to worry anyone. Which, like, I get that. But the next day, Cindy didn't show up to work, and she wasn't heard from anybody. So Alice and the rest of the family started taking everything a little more seriously, and they reported both of them missing. A few days later, on October 15th, a third body of a murdered woman was discovered on Mount Tam. Damn. A research scientist and former Peace Corps consultant, 26-year-old Ann Alderson.
So she was visiting her parents in San Rafael over the holiday weekend when on October 13th, she just decided to go for a solo hike on Mount Tam. So she was literally visiting. Like, wouldn't have been there otherwise. And again, a research scientist and Peace Corps consultant. That's crazy. Like, come on. So she just wanted to go out for a solo hike on Mount Tam. And days later, a witness named John Henry told police he'd seen Anne sitting alone in the amphitheater around 5 p.m. and had considered warning her about the recent attacks that had occurred on the mountain. He just wanted to be like...
You should just be a little careful. Yeah, especially like being alone. He said, but she was so deep in introspection, I didn't want to bother or scare her. Oh, man. Yeah. So Anne was one of two people that Henry saw on the mountain that day. He also saw a man in the parking lot.
He later said he was just hanging around. He was in his late 40s, early 50s, but there was something different about him. He was simply standing there all but motionless and wearing street clothing, slacks, and a Hawaiian-like shirt. The man would later be identified as David Carpenter. It reminds you of that thing where it's like, would you rather run into a bear in the woods or a man? Yes, a bear. The next day, two park rangers were out on the mountain looking for some wild Ridgeback hogs that had been spotted in the area when they received an APB about a young woman, Ann Alderson, who had gone missing on the mountain. According to the bulletin, Ann had told her parents she'd be back by six that night, but they waited until the following day to report her missing.
Search and rescue teams, along with family and friends, had combed the mountain that night looking for Anne, but found no sign of her. It wasn't until the next day, October 15th, that Anne's body was discovered in an area of overgrowth, about a quarter mile from the amphitheater where she had last been seen by John Henry. Oh, that's awful. Unlike the other two victims, none of Anne's clothing or jewelry had been taken, except for one gold earring. Yeah. That's so chilling. She had been sexually assaulted, and the cause of death was a gunshot wound to the right side of her head. And it was from a, quote, high-powered weapon, like a rifle. Yeah. Although she was clothed when her body was discovered, investigators believe that her attacker redressed her after, so she was undressed. That's even scarier. Yeah. That afternoon, the sheriff's department shut down Mount Tam to the public, and detectives searched the area for evidence and found, among other things, a metal fragment from the bullet jacket and Anne's underwear.
which appeared to contain semen that the investigators believed was likely left by her killer. Although DNA testing was obviously not available at the time, this sample was analyzed by lab technicians and determined to be, quote, a type consistent with about 6% to 8% of the general population. Or at least that's small. That's a small portion. Now, on December 2nd, 1980, about six weeks after Ann's murder, Teams of park rangers were searching the mountain looking for 25-year-old Shauna May and 22-year-old Diane O'Connell, who had been reported missing a few days earlier. God, so many missing people. So they're looking for Shauna May and Diane O'Connell, and they made a horrific discovery. So O'Connell and May had gone out for a walk along the National Seashore at Point Reyes on November 28th. And when they failed to return home that afternoon, they were tourists, so people were like, where the fuck would they have gone? They were immediately reported missing. It was in a heavily wooded and sparsely traveled area on Mount Tam where they were found.
They were both, unfortunately, murdered. They were nude and had been shot in the head, both of them. Based on the initial evaluation, it looked like Diane O'Connell had been strangled by, quote, something like a narrow piece of cord of wire. And a pair of women's underwear had been shoved in her mouth. Oh, my. There was no evidence to indicate that O'Connell had been raped. Shauna May, on the other hand, had been sexually assaulted before being shot. And there were ligature marks around one of her wrists, which indicated she'd been found at some point. Now...
The discovery of two more murder victims on Mount Tam was bad enough. But less than an hour later, rangers discovered the decomposed remains of Cindy Moreland and Rick Stowers, about 200 yards from where they found O'Connell in May. Both bodies were found lying face down in what appeared to be a shallow, very crudely dug grave. Bullet wounds were in both of the back of their heads. They had been in the woods for about seven weeks at this point, so they had undergone a lot of decomposition. And Cindy's remains had to be identified through dental records. That's always so sad. Yeah. When they left Moreland's house on the day they went missing,
Neither Cindy nor Rick had said anything about going hiking. That's the problem. So when they reported missing, they just never thought to look in the area of Mount Tamar because no one knew they were hiking. Right. It was like a... It was just like a spontaneous thing. Now, the body count now is at seven. Jesus. And the sheriff's office finally started, you know, we're like, you know what? I think there is one killer that's responsible for all these victims. It doesn't feel like just a coincidence. Right. Sheriff Al Hauenstein told reporters the two most recent victims may have been slain by the killer to draw attention to the earlier killings.
He said, we're looking, we believe, at an individual who has strong feelings about women. And he also said, sometimes the Slayer can control his feelings and other times he cannot. When you think of it, like he killed Diane O'Connell and Shauna May. just to draw attention because he left them right. He did it and left them right near where Rick and Cindy were. Right. For him to do that just so that they to be like, oh, you haven't found them yet. Right. So I'll just take to other people's lives. Like that is so fucking chilling. That line of thinking is just so chilling. Wild. And it's very him. Yeah. So the news that there was yet another serial killer, because remember, we're in that time period and in that time, in that place, that location where serial killers are running a fucking muck around here. They were confusing the cases, confusing the victims like they were overlapping. They're working in the same kind of areas like it was a wild time. It was.
I can't imagine being in this place in the United States at this time. Especially as a woman. I really can't imagine it. No. Horrifying. So this is just the news that there was yet another one of these assholes operating in the San Francisco area was met with a lot of justifiable fear and anxiety from residents.
Hauenstein said in a warning to the residents in the area, without question, this individual is capable of striking again, which must have been horrifying to hear. That's very scary. He said he commits his acts in an effort to achieve psychological relief, but the murders will not satisfy him and the problem will get worse. And in the same statement, he released a sketch of the man they believe was responsible. And he was described as, quote, a clean-cut man in his late 20s or early 30s, dressed in hiking clothes with a knapsack on his back. And according to witness statements, he's beginning to fall apart psychologically. And so Hauenstein said,
hikers especially, remain vigilant and do not go on solo hikes. Like, no more solo hiking every day. But what's even worse is you're not safe even with two. Well, yeah, because look, Cindy and Rick work together. Yeah, Cindy and Rick and Diane and Shauna. Yeah, and like, you do inherently, I think, as a woman sometimes feel a little bit more defended when you're with, like, a man. But that didn't even matter either. Yeah, like, that's very genuinely scary. It's horrifying. Now, investigators check the local sex offender registry for anyone who might match these descriptions, but because Carpenter was still technically a federal prisoner on probation, he was not yet required to sign up for the registry, and so he hadn't.
If you're out, you should have to sign up for that. Agreed. Like what? Another fail. Yep. Also at the time, this is even worse. At the time, California's sex offender registry program was woefully underfunded. Really? And overworked. And it was run by three people, that department. What? Yeah. It lacked even the basic resources to operate as a department, much less to operate as like a functional arm of law enforcement. Like three people.
are having to deal with all this. So the fact that he fell through the cracks in that scenario, not surprising at all. Awful. I would have been surprised if they actually found him on the registry. Truly. Now, as for David Carpenter, the sheriff was more or less kind of accurate with what he said. He was starting to fall apart psychologically or, you know, he was becoming more reckless at the very least.
Morbid is brought to you by Audible. He lurks in the shadow. He slips into dreams. He casts no reflection. Audible presents Bram Stoker's Dracula, a new full-cast audio thriller starring Jonathan Bailey as Dracula, Ella Purnell as Mina Harker, Maggie Gyllenhaal as Van Helsing, and more. When Mina's fiancé vanishes in Transylvania, she pieces together letters, diary entries, and chilling testimony to hunt the predator stalking those she loves, only to discover Dracula is already hunting her. Joined by the enigmatic Van Helsing, Mina and a fearless band race against time to stop an ancient terror. Her intellect and resolve may hold the key to bringing down the count if he hasn't already found his way inside her mind.
Featuring a haunting original score and spatial Dobie Atmos sound design, Bram Stoker's Dracula invites you to feel the terror of being hunted and the thrill of the hunt. Now on Audible, listen to the darkness. Go to audible.ca slash listen to Dracula. This holiday season, it's not just about what you want. With Amazon Prime, it's about how you want to feel. In the mood for a little excitement? Stream thrilling movies, shows, and sports on Prime Video. Feeling cozy? Get everything you need for the perfect night in. Delivered fast with Prime. Because whether you're looking for a little holiday magic or a much-needed moment to unwind, Prime helps get you the feeling you crave. From streaming to fast shipping, it's on Prime.
Now, on March 29th, 1981, 20-year-old Ellen Hansen and her boyfriend, Stephen Hertel, were camping near Henry Cowell Park in Santa Cruz, not far from Point Reyes. This was a popular area at the time, and it had about 90 other campers on site at the time. If Henry Cowell Park in Santa Cruz sounds a little familiar, this is the same camping area that Herbert Mullen took. solitary hikes in, and brutally ended up murdering 18-year-old David Oliker, 18-year-old Robert Spector, 19-year-old Brian Scott Card, and 15-year-old Mark Dribeldis in their tent. Oh, wow. So this is the same place. And around the same time. Yep. And this is where Ellen Hansen and her boyfriend, Stephen Hertel, were camping. Oh, man. So that morning, Hansen and Hertel woke up early and went for a walk along the beach. For much of the walk, they were alone. But eventually, Steve spotted another person on the beach.
This was a man wearing what looked to be a backpack and very heavy bifocal glasses. Oh, he got them replaced. And he was walking towards them. Oh, thanks. So as they got closer, Steve and Ellen could hear what Steve later described as, quote, shuffling steps and then heavy breathing and cursing. Oh. But they thought, like, whatever, and they just kind of, like, because they were walking towards each other, but, like, going past each other. Yeah, so you're just going to say, like, hey. So he said they nodded a hello, then he did too, and then they just kept walking. Now, later that afternoon, and nothing came of that. Yeah. So they were just like, whatever. Later that afternoon, Steve and Ellen ran into that same man from the beach again. This time, while they were hiking Ridge Trail on Mount Tam.
When he saw them, he said, oh, I see we run into each other again. So they just kind of were like, huh, yeah, like weird. And then as they're being like, oh, yeah, that's like funny. As they're saying that, he reached into the waistband of his pants and produced a robot. Can you imagine? You just see this man again. And he's like, oh, funny. We run into each other again. And you're like, yeah. And he's just puts a gun in your face. Like what? Like the fear, the fear and just like the split second change there. He just pointed it right at them. My God. Like that was probably me. What the fuck? The universe. Like, why did I cross this man's path again? Now, at the time, Steve was fixated on his the man's hands, which he later described as extraordinarily white and clean.
Which is strange. He also noticed the strange way that the man was holding the gun. He said it was like very specific. He said he had pulled back the hammer, but had his thumb between the hammer and the firing pin. Because he's injured. Yeah. So if the hammer slipped, it would hit his thumb rather than discharging a bullet too. Right. Like, which is strange. The man said, if you don't want to get hurt, do what I say. Put your hands on your head and you won't get hurt.
So he was like, this is weird. So he's thinking we're just being robbed. Also, him putting his finger, his thumb between that probably made him think like, okay, even if he pulls the trigger, we're not being fired at. So to me, that would probably make me be like, okay, this guy's bluffing. Right. Like, this is fucked up. Let's just do what he says. And I think that's why Steve was like, okay, I think he's just robbing us and he's trying to threaten us with a thing. So Steve pushed Ellen out of the way and thrust his wallet at this man. But the man was like, no. And this is one of the most chilling things I have ever heard. Oh, no. He said to him, I don't want any money. I want something else. You know what I mean. All I want to do is rape her.
Oh my God. Said this to her boyfriend. Steve was probably like, what the actual fuck? And what do you do? And imagine Ellen being like...
Like, what the fuck? Like, what do you do in that scenario? I have no idea. And it didn't. It's so scary. It's like so scary. And apparently it didn't occur to Steve in the moment. But he later said that the man was slowly pushing them back off the trail and into the woods as this was happening. And Steve and Ellen were moving backwards. And he was just kind of like just to create space. And like he's like getting them out of the way. Now, eventually, Steve and Ellen made a move to run and things just erupted into chaos. Steve said, I heard two shots. And then I felt like somebody hit my neck with a sledgehammer. I remember falling to the ground with a buzzing sensation in my arm and everything was slowing down.
The bullet had ripped through Steve's neck and severed an artery in his arm and then had settled in his sternum. Oh my god. So he went unconscious. I'm sure. When he regained consciousness a few moments later, the first thing he saw was Ellen laying beside him and her head was resting in a pool of blood. The man who had shot them both looked like he was walking away and Steve knew if he didn't stop him, they might never find him and he might hurt someone else.
So despite being incredibly injured, Steve forced himself to his feet. He's been shot in the neck and an artery has been severed. Not only the fact that he's gravely injured, but the fact that he knows that this man still has a gun and could shoot him again. He's still going up against him. Because he doesn't want somebody else to get hurt. He forces himself to his feet and slowly starts walking after him, walking up the trail in the direction of the observation deck. And he hadn't made it very far before he found a father and son hiking the trail. And he's like hysterical and he's slipping into like shock at this point. And Steve did his best to explain to them what happened, but he wasn't making a lot of sense.
Lee Fritz, who was one of the guys, said he told us that he and his girlfriend had been shot and he thought she was dead. Which, like, I can't even imagine having to say that. No. So with the help of some other hikers. Fritz managed to get Steve to the observation deck where they called the police. And later, several witnesses on the trail that day recalled hearing the gunshots and passing a man in a gold jacket as they rushed to see what the commotion was about. It's also just so crazy to think that, like, so many people that day were just out for hikes. Like, that guy that Steve ran into is just on a hike with his son. Yeah. And, like, think of the hike space that they're in. Like, they're like, oh, nature, beautiful. Yeah, and this guy's fucking everything up. And Steve just woke up from being shot next to his girlfriend. And seeing his girlfriend shot next to him. So two of the hikers from the observation deck ventured out into the woods and found Ellen's body. She was dead.
She had been killed by a gunshot wound to her head. The two men sat with her body until the rescue team arrived, which I'm glad they did that. In the meantime, Steve was loaded into Lee Fritz's camper van and they started their way down to the hospital. So like all these campers are like helping each other out. When they reached the parking lot, Fritz spotted a man driving a Volkswagen Beetle that appeared to be stuck in the mud. Good. Fritz said something about the rearview mirror caught my eye. It was extra large for the car. So it was just a very specific thing. As they passed, Lee and the other driver made direct eye contact with one another.
And it occurred to him that it was the same man that he passed on the trail just before he found Steve. God, can you imagine? And he said he yelled, there goes the person I think committed the crime. But he said, at the moment, I had to get Steve to a hospital. I was worried he was going to die. Like, I couldn't stop and try to apprehend this man. Like, you have to weigh out what is more important. He's like, so I just had to get Steve to where he needed to go. Now, despite the serious physical and psychological trauma that he'd endured.
Steve was able to provide a very detailed description of the killer. That's incredible. And he used that description to refine the existing composite of the sketch of the suspect. Nice. The problem, though, was that they still had no one to match the drawing to. And unfortunately, it was going to take one more murder before this man was finally identified as David Carpenter. Jesus Christ. Now, with the exception of the attack on Lois D'Andrati in 1960, all of David Carpenter's victims were completely unknown to him and were just kind of like victims of opportunity, unfortunately. For that reason, it's really strange that in choosing his last victim here, he chose someone that he knew like...
pretty well and could easily be traced back to him with very minimal effort. Because again, psychologically, he's unwinding. He's unwinding. Now, on May 2nd, 1981, just one month after the murder of Alan Hansen and the attempted murder of Steve Hertel, 20-year-old Heather Skaggs was attending the same trade school where David Carpenter was working as a printer. And she mentioned that she was looking to buy a used car, since hers had finally broken down for good. Well, as it happened, Carpenter told her he had a friend in Santa Cruz who had a car for sale at a pretty good price, and he was happy to drive her over there after they both finished their shifts. Okay. If she could get the car, Carpenter pointed out he could help her get a job at the school.
Heather agreed, you know, but there were two things she did find unusual about this whole thing. Carpenter had told her to bring cash and not tell anyone when she was going. Okay, that's strange. Yeah. So Heather's mother, Mary Jones Skaggs, said that Heather called her that afternoon and seemed upset and was like, I feel like something's weird about this. She actually broke into tears at one point. She said it doesn't feel right. Yeah. So her mother begged her, like, trust your instincts. Don't go with this guy. But Heather was like, I can't pass up the opportunity for a job, which is so sad. I know. And so she told her mom, don't worry. Don't worry about it, mom. Just wish that somebody else could have given her a ride. I know. And that was the last time Mary Jones Skaggs talked to her daughter. Oh, my God. Now, later that night, when no one had heard from Heather, some of her friends reached out to David Carpenter for information, actually, because they knew the two had plans that afternoon.
Because some people were there when they made these plans. But David claimed that they hadn't met up as planned because, quote, he overslept and had car trouble. So because multiple people knew she had plans to go look at a car with David Carpenter, when Heather was reported missing to police, his name came up repeatedly. But when investigators interviewed him, he just said, I overslept and my card wouldn't work. I didn't see her that day. You know, it's just a coincidence. I'm a violent criminal. And it's an easy alibi. I overslept. I didn't see her. Now, at the same time, that investigators were looking into his background in the context of Heather Skaggs' case.
The composite sketch that had been updated with the help of Steve was finally starting to get some traction. And the first tip came in from a 69-year-old woman in Ben Lomond, California, named Roberta Patterson. She reported recognizing the man in the sketch as a man she'd been on a cruise with 26 years earlier. Patterson wouldn't have remembered someone from that long ago, she said normally, but she recalled being very disturbed by Carpenter. It was David Carpenter. Because he was making her teenage daughter very uncomfortable because he wouldn't stop touching her shoulders. Patterson told a reporter from the San Francisco Chronicle, I just didn't like the guy.
It turned out this was not the first time that Patterson had reported this particular man to the police. Years earlier, she called police after seeing a sketch of the Zodiac on TV. Oh, shit. Yeah. We're about to cover that.
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Get everything you need for the perfect night in. Delivered fast with Prime. Because whether you're looking for a little holiday magic or a much needed moment to unwind, Prime helps get you the feeling you crave. From streaming to fast shipping, it's on Prime. Now, by the time they called him in for an interview about the disappearance of Heather Skaggs, investigators already suspected him of being involved in the murders at Mount Tam. But in person, he was much less believable as a threat to anyone. Detective Walt Robinson said when he sat down and started talking to Carpenter, the first time he opened his mouth, I thought, my God, this guy can't possibly be involved in the Santa Cruz homicide. In addition to just appearing pretty meek, according to them, like he just didn't seem like, you know, judging a book by its cover, I suppose. They were also saying he was struggling to get a single sentence out without stuttering.
When they asked about Heather, his response caught their detectives off guard because he said, I hope she hasn't been killed. I hope she hasn't been raped. But they said he stuttered very hard on the words killed and raped. Oh. So that's why it really hit them. They were like, first of all, why would you say that? That's just bizarre. And second of all, why are those words hitting so hard? Yikes. The more he talked, the more investigators started seeing the facade of a mild, awkward man to someone who was clearly very more controlling, manipulative, and cunning. To Robinson and his partner, Carpenter's alibi seemed way too perfect. His descriptions were too well rehearsed. Everything was too much.
So sensing he would need to establish some kind of rapport with the suspect, Robinson told Carpenter that, like David, he had also been forced to take dance classes as a kid and would often get made fun of by his peers. At that, David calmly rose from his chair and for nearly 10 minutes, he went through all the dance positions he could remember, moving fluidly around this little interrogation room as the detectives just watched him without any emotion. That? He needs to be hospitalized. You would see that in a movie and be like, that's too much. And be like, that's a lot. Like, that was crazy. No, that is. It's also like he did. Weirdly sad.
Yeah. But I don't feel bad for him. But yeah, like the entire performance from, you know, the awkward, you know, weird embarrassment and the dance routine. It all felt very planned, though, to them. Because at first when you hear that, you're like, oh, he's just really like he's really going out there, you know, trying to make it seem like to them. They felt like this is part of it. They said he was playing a game. Yeah. As he danced, David said, I know you guys think I'm the number one suspect as he's dancing. Oh, and they reminded him that they were from missing persons, not homicide. Uh huh.
And but all David said was, hey, I'm the number one suspect. I should if I should be if I'm not. What the fuck? And the detectives concluded their interview and took three Polaroid photos of Carpenter, then allowed him to leave. That's so bizarre. They said it all felt very rehearsed. It sounds like it. He literally did a dance rehearsal. Yeah. In the days after that, FBI agents working with the Santa Cruz County Sheriff's Office ran a 24-7 tale on David Carpenter. Oh, I always love that. And during that time, they witnessed him attempting to sell his .38 pistol, among other things. And in the meantime, Santa Cruz homicide detectives continued to investigate the Hanson murder, focusing on David Carpenter. It was during an interview with his former girlfriend, Candy Townsend, that the first break came.
During their conversation, Townsend mentioned a gold jacket of David's that had gone missing in early April. Oh, shit. Which he told her had been stolen out of his car. I bet. Detective Stoneybrook said, and his name is Stoneybrook. That's iconic. Can we all just hold space for that? Stoneybrook. That's a great name. It is. He said, up to this point, we lacked the Nexus, the connection. We had him fitting the description, but we could not put him at the scene with the gun in his hand. That jacket was it. The Nexus. I love it. Only Detective Stoneybrook could say it like that. It's true. And only Detective Stoneybrook would say Nexus. Exactly. That's the only thing. That only Stoney.
Now, along with the pistol and the witness descriptions, the jacket put David Carpenter at the scene of the Hansen murder the previous month. That afternoon, Brooke called the FBI surveillance team and reported what they'd learned on the afternoon of May 15th. David Carpenter was arrested for the murder of Ellen Hansen. Following his arrest and arraignment for the murder, seven witnesses, including Steve Hertel, identified Carpenter as the man who they'd seen fleeing Mount Tam on the day Ellen Hansen was murdered. About a week later, on May 24th, hikers walking along the railway at Big Basin State Park unfortunately discovered the nude decomposing body of Heather Skaggs. She had been sexually assaulted and shot in the face with a .38 caliber handgun. The same gun used in the shooting of Ellen Hansen and Steve Hertel. During the trial, one of Carpenter's friends, Molly Purnell, testified that she had purchased the gun at David's request. And two other witnesses testified having been shown the gun by David Carpenter at various points in the previous year. During his interviews, Carpenter claimed not to own a gun.
But one of the former halfway house residents David lived with had turned on him and confessed to having been given the gun by Carpenter and asked to destroy it. Oh my God. Yeah. You're just like, the fact that he thought that was never going to come back. You really think they're going to have your back here? No. Like, come on. That man led police to where he had thrown it and the weapon was recovered. Whoa. Yep. In late July 1981, David Carpenter was charged with five counts of murder, rape, and attempted rape in Santa Cruz County. Also, in his 1981 mugshot, he's wearing a fucking monogrammed sweater. Yeah, he's terrifyingly normal. He's wearing a straight up monogrammed sweater. I don't know what the monogram is because it's not for his name. Yeah. But...
Which is even scarier somehow. No, it is. I don't know why. It's just... Like, whose is that? I hate it. Yeah. Now, a trial was scheduled, but in the months that followed, additional charges were added for the murders in Merritton County, and that complicated the case. Things were further complicated by multiple requests for a change of venue after Carpenter's lawyers argued that there had been too much press coverage in Santa Cruz and the jury was going to be biased. Yeah, yeah. By the time the case went to trial in April 1984, it took nearly three months to impanel a jury in Los Angeles where the case had been moved. Now, in July 1984, after a three-month trial, David Carpenter was found guilty of all charges in the Santa Cruz cases.
and in November of that year, he was sentenced to death. Goodbye. Two years later, in September 1986, Carpenter was tried for the murders committed in Marin County, where he was also found guilty of all charges, and in 1988, was also sentenced to death for those as well. Damn, two times. You're gonna die twice. Oof. Given the complexity of the cases and the fact that death penalty cases are automatically appealed, David Carpenter appealed those convictions and sentences to the state Supreme Court several times. Although two of his convictions for the Hanson and Skaggs murders were at one point overturned on a technicality, the convictions and sentences for those murders were reinstated upon review.
David Carpenter has always denied killing or sexually assaulting any of the individuals he was convicted of killing. Yeah, yeah. Despite a wild amount of forensic evidence linking him to the murders. Like, there is no question whatsoever. In the years since he was incarcerated, he's been linked through DNA to the 1979 murder of Mary Bennett, who was killed while jogging at Land's End. And he remains the prime suspect in the murders of Etta Kane and Barbara Schwartz, who they were never able to pin him for.
As of today, he remains incarcerated at San Quentin Prison. And he is 94 years old. And he is the oldest resident on California's death row. That's bullshit. That is some bullshit that that man is allowed to live this long. He shouldn't be allowed to live that long. And I hope that death row is just fucking awful, though. Oh, I hope he's having the worst time. I hope he's having the fucking worst time. I hope he can't dance. I hope they don't let him dance. Oh, yeah. I hope they just... I hope he lives with a constant hangnail. Yeah. And I hope he always has a cut inside of his nose. And I hope the faucet is always dripping. Always dripping. And that mice are in his cell. And I hope his eye twitches.
And then it stops. So he thinks it's gone. But then it just goes for like a week straight. Yeah. And I hope he has a dull headache. And then I hope he has an abscess in his tooth. Several teeth, actually. That's crazy. And a sore throat. Oh, definitely sore throat. And no cough drops in prison. Nope. Except for Mucinex. And he's one of those people who Mucinex makes puke. Mucinex makes me nauseous. Me too. And I hope it makes him nauseous. And they only have that. You heard it here first. Yeah.
Wow. That's a really sad story. And the fact that so many of those deaths never would have happened if the justice system had actually prevailed. We got to tell a story soon where the justice system does good. Yeah, we definitely need to find one of those because this was not one of those situations. David Carpenter's an asshole. Those poor people just living their lives and they were just victims of opportunity. It's awful. It is. But a lot of civilians in this case, a lot of the detectives did a great job on this case. And a lot of civilians really pulled it together in this case.
Like camping culture and like hiking culture, those people really stick together. Yeah, they take care of each other. Which is good for you guys. Whenever people go hiking on the, like do like the crazy hike. Pacific Coast Highway. Pacific Coast Highway, did you say? No, but that's a thing. The Pacific Coast Trail, right? Is that it? In my head, I was thinking like the Appalachian Trail. Now I'm just thinking Panama. Pacific Crest Trail? That's not in my head. But I don't know what it's called, so at least you had a stab at it. The Reese Witherspoon.
movie where she throws her hiking boots. It's like a whole thing. I've never watched that. And they talk about it in Gilmore Girls, the new ones. I know what you're talking about, yeah. Pacific Crest Trail. I was like, I know I'm not totally off on here. Anyway, she was going to do wild. So that's what it is. It's wild. Yeah, the Pacific, the Appalachian Trail, I think, is part of that whole thing. You were also correct. See, look at us both being great. Basically, my point was just that when people do that big, long trail and they go wild or they do wild, people take care of them. Everybody takes care of each other during the wild. They do. I think people who... It's a community. People who hike.
I think that's just like in your bones and your blood and like, which makes you pretty fucking great. I wish I could hike. I keep looking out for each other and please be careful. And with that being said, we hope you keep listening and we hope you keep it weird, but not so weird that you don't do and go wild, wild, wild, wild, wild.