That's an example of a cultural limitation that we really need to figure out how to solve, right? Yeah, yeah, sure. I mean, it's really the big elephant in the room that nobody wants to notice that. It's there.
And one of the key issues that we face is people being shy or trying to be as culturally aware as possible when it comes to approaching customers of both sexes. And we find this also with both expats working and as well as nationals. So sometimes an expat, Filipino, Indian, Kenyan, whatever, Indonesian, wherever they are from, they would find, they would feel a little bit reserved because they don't want to approach a lady and ask her what type of coffee she prefers because they wouldn't know how to... but it's something, it's a skill that you start to learn.
If you're a roaster, you've probably felt it. It's getting harder and harder to find great quality coffee at volumes and prices that still make sense. One origin that's often been overlooked in the search is Honduras. For years, it's been treated as a conventional origin, even though there are producers quietly growing exceptional coffees that never make it into the specialty conversation.
The Honduran Coffee Alliance is a social enterprise with a simple mission. Connect those producers and buyers in a fair, sustainable and commercially viable way. They work with organized producer groups across regions like El Paraíso, La Paz, Olancho and Comayagua, helping them evaluate quality, tell their farm stories and move coffees that belong on specialty menus, not buried in anonymous blends. What that looks like for roasters is previously untapped lots that hit your flavor and quality targets, a minimum of just four bags to get started, transparency reports so everyone can see where every cent of the purchase goes, and turning that first buy into a long-term trade relationship, not just a one-off.
If the idea of forming a long-term relationship with producers in Honduras is of interest to you, reach out to the Honduran Coffee Alliance so that they can work to find you a fit for your 2026 menu. Samples are going to be ready soon. You'll find Sean Warner's WhatsApp and email in the show notes. Send him a message and tell him you heard about the Honduran Coffee Alliance here and start exploring what these overlooked Honduran coffees could do for your menu today.
Check the show notes for links. Welcome to the Mapperford Middle East podcast, friends. I'm your host, Lee Safar, and this is episode four of a five-part series with Osama Alawam from The Roasting House in Riyadh, Saudi Arabia. We're talking about the challenges of running a business in the Middle East.
And in this region, this is a very culturally rich region of the world. And I feel that that's quite the blessing. I've worked in the coffee industry in Australia, the coffee industry in America, in the UK. And while those have rich coffee cultures, they're very diverse from...
It's not as rich culturally as this region of the world. And in this episode, we're going to talk about the cultural limitations that enable the challenges that business owners face in Middle Eastern specialty coffee industry. So we were talking at the end of the last episode about how, what are some of the barriers to entry of a barista being able to sell? And I know from working with Sarah, shout-out to my dear, dear friend, Sarah Laleh from That Coffee in Saudi Arabia.
We love her. We love her, don't we? She is a blessing in everybody's life, and she is the true coffee professional. And one of the OGs of the region, the original kind of people who pioneered.
And what was really interesting being involved in the launch of that is that at the time that it was emerging, asking women to start conversations, so we would go through the process of training, right? And how to have conversations with customers. But what was a challenge was asking women, or men, to start conversations with the opposite sex or with strangers. It was something that they hadn't had training in before, in life.
And I find here in the UAE, we see a similar thing, not just with Emiratis, but also with people who have come from India, or people who have come from other parts of the world to come here and work as baristas. Starting conversations with people if they don't have the training to do that is a barrier that stops them from being successful in what they're doing, which in turn stops the business from recognizing the success, financial success, it could possibly have, right? That's an example of a cultural limitation that we really need to figure out how to solve. Yeah, yeah, sure.
I mean, it's really the big elephant in the room that nobody wants to notice that it's there. And one of the key issues that we face is, is people being shy or trying to be as culturally aware as possible when it comes to approaching customers of both sexes. And we find this also with both expats working and as well as nationals. So sometimes an expat, Filipino, Indian, Kenyan, whatever, Indonesian, wherever they are from, they would find, they would feel a little bit reserved because they don't want to approach a lady and ask her what type of coffee she prefers because they wouldn't know how to...
But it's something, it's a skill that you start to learn. Does this person want to ask questions? What should I do? But the first thing should stem from you as a barista or a salesperson to offer that helping hand, essentially.
What can I do? Can I direct you to a coffee that you prefer today? Do you like acidity, fruit flavors? Do you like a latte, espresso?
You start to gauge that person. You start to build rapport with that person or stop it by the first one or two questions because you're there professionally to represent something. You have to understand that there is nothing wrong with you engaging with that person or with that customer coming in and asking them if they need help. You would find that you start to build this conversation and trust with the person coming in.
I've had people, and I've done this. I've approached people who seem really reserved and coming in, just tired at the end of the day or just it's hot and they just want to get coffee or they're told by their daughter or son, a father is told by his daughter or son, get me a coffee, or his wife, get me a coffee. And they would leave happy and they would leave satisfied. They would leave proud that they were able to ask questions.
Why? Because we started to engage. Because we're humans at the end of the day. Everybody has needs.
Everybody has questions. Everybody has answers. And we have to sort of break that ice gently, essentially. And there's an issue that we have with locals.
And I genuinely invite locals. I would say it in Arabic so they can understand. We need you. We know that you have the ability to consultatively sell.
Yes, I have a business owner. Yes, I want to sell more. But at the same time, I want customers to be happy and believe in that brand so they can continue to come back week after week. I built The Roasting House to be a business that people can come in, much like going into the supermarket and buying milk, bread, rice, sugar on a weekly, bi-weekly basis because that is a necessity that people have.
And that is better quality coffee. Make it right. Make that person come and enjoy that experience. I want to interrupt you there for a second, and I'm sorry.
But I have to give you props on something that you do. You do an exceptional job on your social media helping people get there where you were just saying. For those who don't follow Osama's personal account, I would highly encourage, particularly if you speak Arabic, I would highly encourage you to go to Osama's account and follow him. Why?
Osama takes you with him on his personal journey exploring coffee, no matter where he is in the world. And he shows you the things he finds fascinating about coffee. And he tells you why he finds them fascinating. And I feel that, and I'd love to frame this as a question.
When you're posting on your personal social media, mashallah, you have so many followers. It's so amazing. But who is your audience? Who are you talking to?
Are you talking to the industry or are you talking to consumers when you start showing us all these things about being on a coffee farm or being at a cafe in the UK or being in Jakarta? Who are you talking to? Look, one of the things that I learned about the coffee industry at large is when I'm talking to the camera or to the phone, essentially, I'm talking to consumers. But who are consumers?
They are the industry leaders themselves. So they are the people who lead purchasing in a company or who are people who have a friend who has a coffee shop that would come and buy coffee from me as a B2B client or who would have a friend who is an F&B manager at a hotel or who would see my account. So I'm talking to the real person. I'm not trying to represent a corporate entity talking to people, but represent...
And this is what I stress to my colleagues in the e-commerce team and the digital marketing team. Don't act like a corporate entity trying to send messages. You should be coffee-loving people talking to other people who want to learn about coffee. And you should...
When I talk about this online, I'm targeting, I'm making the message, I'm trying to make the message as easy as possible for the average Joe to understand and to enjoy. And sometimes people who are advanced in coffee may find some of the information that I share too easy for them. But that's fine. I mean, I don't...
I feel we just started to scrape the edge of the iceberg when it comes to people who are knowing more about coffee. I'm not being repetitive. I try not to be repetitive. Sometimes I have to be because some messages are The spoils.
Yeah. And don't worry about any of the business to others, where 60% of them will believe. But can you imagine that only 13% of businesses succeed in the third generation? Really?
That is a study that was conducted by Ahmed Lasem who was a corporate governance leader, and that was in 2010, many, many years ago now. I hope it has changed and improved. But I think it's still going forward where people, people are not delegating, or business owners are not delegating to their family to do the business. Okay, there are...
It depends. Do you want to continue your business as a family business? If yes, then you have to get people involved from your family to run it correctly. If not, do you put the standard operating procedures correctly, where you can monitor them easily and let go of that business from being a family's business into a separate entity?
There's no right or wrong. What do you want? It's your call. Right.
You've got to build that from that way from the start. Yes. So you have to decide yourself as a business owner. Is this a business that I want to run?
If so, I have to. There is no way out of it. There's no way out of it. And it's not because people are incompetent.
It's because you started it. You know the ins and outs of it. It's your target to enable the people with you. If you think they're incompetent, then it's your fault that you have not enabled them correctly or hired people who you feel are competent to run that business with you.
You've not enabled that. You've not set that passion with them. You've not given them the opportunity to learn and make mistakes. And that's fine.
They need to make mistakes like you did. 100%. Well, that you can learn as well from them. But the mistake is continuing to make that mistake and not fixing it and not showing them how to fix it and learning from them and admitting if it's a mistake, you don't say it's your mistake.
Oh, look, guys, it's our mistake. Let's do it. Let's see how we can do it. Let's see how we can avoid this happening.
And we... It's important to be humble as a business owner and understand that you as a business owner, you need to get involved. It's like a baby. It's like raising a baby.
You have to. There's no way. I mean, the one thing that I see again and again, and we have an epidemic here in the industry of, in this region. And I would argue that it happens all over the world, but I've worked in a number of different countries in coffee and it is by far something that needs urgent addressing here.
And that is when you have an owner that's not involved in a business, that leaves the environment open to chaos. Yes. Yes. Right.
And that's, I suppose, that's the dark side of entrepreneurship that people don't show about that you... or don't necessarily feel comfortable about talking about it. You see from an outside perspective as a non-entrepreneur, non-business owner, you see the shiny things behind owning a business. Free hours, freedom, guaranteed wealth.
But it's not at all like that. It's not at all fun. Not at all. There is definitely a dark side to owning a business that you must understand and be fully aware of that it will take an impact on your social life.
It will take an impact on potentially your health if you don't control it right. It will take an impact on your financials as well. And you have to be patient and you have to be strong if you want to continue in that business. If it's not for you, then do not get into business.
It's not easy. It's time-consuming and it requires dedication. But then you have to learn the art of delegation where you empower those with you to lead the things that you used to do as a barista or a roaster or anyone who was got operational skill. You have to give that operational skill to somebody who is willing to learn and delegate so you can focus on growing that business, scaling it up, sustaining it and making sure that it continues to be a successful business for you, but also for the people, for the 20, 30, 50, 100 people, 150 people that you hired and who depend on you that they will receive a salary at the end of the month in a timely manner that is not late.
So there is a dark side of becoming a business or a woman, but it's very doable and it's challenging and it opens up a lot of things about yourself. It challenges how much you can withstand and it enables you to become a stronger person. But you have to learn to put a barrier between this, your sanity and insanity, essentially. So you have to understand that you have to put that barrier.
Yeah, we have a saying at Mapha Forward with our clients, our consulting clients. Being in business is going to teach you everything you never wanted to know about yourself. It's a pilgrimage. It is, absolutely.
And until you start this pilgrimage, you can never understand what the path is ahead of you. And it is, if you have what it takes, it's worth doing. Go ahead. There's epiphanies that you really generally tough to warn about life.
Life-changing. Yeah, life-changing. Yeah. Yeah, well, and you, it morphs you into a different person, right?
And this is why I'm often, when I have conversations with people who own businesses, but choose to stay in their full-time job, I, from my perspective, I'm kind of sad for them because they're missing the opportunity for this business to turn them into the person that it could turn them into. No, but sometimes I say, maybe they're not ready for that move. Maybe they're not, okay. I, I, maybe.
And maybe making that move would make them miserable, successful in business, but miserable in person. So if they're comfortable in that zone and taking them outside of that comfort zone, that, that exterior from their comfort zone won't work for everybody, I suppose. But is it fair, and I wrestle with this, is it fair for them to transfer that responsibility onto other people for them to carry that weight? Well, if somebody, this is where, this is where the saying, give the, give the baker, give the baker the bread or the doctor make bread.
If you're not capable of doing it or you think you're not comfortable or not ready, why not find someone who can run it for you and take a share of it? And 1% of a small business or a big business is not bad at all. 1% of a big business is not bad at all if, if you're just there and somebody is doing the work and you're enjoying the money out of it. And you have a nine to five job and after five o'clock you're there with your family and friends and enjoy life.
Why not? Maybe it's, maybe it's the right decision for you to make. It's your call as a person. So it's not, nobody should say, look, business is fantastic.
It's opportunity. You get to discover yourself and you get to become a better person. Yes, there are difficulties and challenges, go and make it. And then you realize, whoa, it's a, and maybe design.
I designed after three and a half years from starting the business when I realized that I had a solid business. And I took 2000 grand salary a month, which I did not pay myself until after the first year. So you have to make sacrifices that you are willing to make. Yeah.
We've, we've all been there and that's the part of it that you realize, like, business is not for everybody. Going back to what you said, just to wrap up this series, going, this episode, you know how you were talking about the first generation, second generation, third generation. The Italians have a saying, do you know the saying that they have about this? It's beautiful.
The first generation builds, the second generation grows, the third generation destroys. Wow, wow, wow. So true, isn't it? Wow.
That's an Italian saying. Wow. So, okay. One episode to go, folks.
And in that, we're asking the question, what are the opportunities that exist for the future of the specialty coffee industry if we build a robust ecosystem? So join us for that. Peace, love and peanut butter. Have an amazing rest of your day.
This episode is part of a five-part series produced by Mapper Forward. Check the full playlist and guest details in the show notes as well as how you can support our work in the coffee industry. Become a premium YouTube subscriber, explore our Patreon and any brands we've partnered with to bring you this podcast. Please don't forget to like, share and subscribe.
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