I would say to a roaster, try to understand how your sourcing is being done, trying to understand, well, how your supplier works, there is, it's a medium. So there is big ones, good ones, small ones, funny ones, super happy ones, whatever. It doesn't matter. You just understand that, understand how it works.
So you can be prepared. If it's a black box that has work, fantastic, try to identify what's happening in that black box and how it's done and how the relationships are and all of that stuff. That would be my place to start because the other things is just keeping your eyes open and try to follow the market, follow the basics and the fundamentals of it, follow the news, how is your politics and a lot of stuff and have to have a picture of it and have a community like the one that we have that you can talk to peers, you can talk to different actors in the market, you can have different opinions and all of that stuff. Due to the success of the last time we ran this workshop, future proofing your coffee business 2026 and beyond is back again in February.
This three-hour live workshop is designed for coffee business owners across the supply chain who want to plan properly for what's ahead, not guess, not react and not rely on hope. Together, we'll work through a practical 12-month roadmap for your business, including pricing decisions, risk planning, campaign planning and a cash flow model that helps you stay profitable and adapt in an increasingly uncertain industry. This isn't a high-level talk or a trends presentation. It's a working session for people who are serious about staying in the coffee industry long-term and surviving this coffee crisis.
If you're running a coffee business anywhere in the supply chain and want more clarity and control going into 2026 and beyond, and you missed the last sessions at the end of 2025, you can learn more and book tickets at mapofour.coffee or find direct links in the show notes. Early bird tickets are available up to two weeks before the event, and if you're a Patreon backer, you'll receive the usual discount. Welcome to the Daily Coffee Pro by Map Up Forward, friends. I'm your host Lee Safar, and unfortunately, this is the final episode of What Has Been and absolutely delightful series with Augusto Amaya.
This really could have been one of the conversations that you and I have had, not recording for the podcast Augusto. And I'm really, really glad that people got an insight into what our conversations are like. This has been one of those conversations, one that has gone far too quickly, but two, I feel like we could have every episode gone for a double the amount of time and still not run out of things to talk about, is exactly. So we were talking offline, and I said to him, stop, stop, stop, stop.
I want to have this conversation on the podcast in between episode four and episode five. We were talking about volatility and how you coming from coal into coffee at the time that you did, you were really quite primed in this episode, folks, just to give us the context. We're going to talk about what the worker head is so that we can survive 2026. And how do we navigate what is continued volatility in the coffee crisis, right?
And Augusto, you were telling me the correlation between your work in coal and how it prepared you for what's happening in coffee. Do you want to say more about that? Yeah, so I was telling you that I'm not like, my mind is not blown in terms of what we're going to do, it is a crisis, 100% it is. And it has been for far too long, and God knows for how long it's going to be among us.
But it is a commodity at the end of the day. So when I was transferred to Dublin, it wasn't transferred that it was for three years. And I was doing maintenance first at the mine site. Then I went to do sourcing, and I was buying materials and whatever.
And I went, I was sent to Bogota to do that. So I was a procurement for the mining company. And then one day my boss came in and said, you are a candidate to go to Dublin. It's like, what the hell is going on in Dublin?
Well, we mine coffee, we need to sell it to the private stations. So we have an office in Dublin, which is the marketing office of Serhun in Europe. So if you get a gig, you're going to be selling coal, fantastic. So I got a gig, send it here, and it was three years.
And then I was supposed to come back to Columbia to keep growing my professional career, whatever. So long story short, I loved it, and they asked me to stay and stay for 16 years. My view at the beginning, as soon as I landed here, was like, I'm not going to be a salesman for three years. I'm going to get bored, and then I'm going to go back to Columbia or do something else.
And it has happened to me in my career. So usually three to five years, if there's no new challenges, whatever, I want to go. But it was a huge company. So 12,000 people working.
So you can demo your professional career inside. You don't have to go anywhere. So you go to different positions, you learn things and whatever. I'm not going to be selling coal for three years.
But little, little many years, this is a commodity. And in those 15 years, there was no a single year equal to another one. The challenges were different. The things were coming from different directions, from places that you were not thinking of, that you never knew of, geopolitical situations, blockages in the shipping lines, issues in Columbia as well, issues in the countries you were delivering to, you cannot deliver to the country anymore.
The European Union took this decision, they're closing. I remember, when I joined, we were setting 70% to our coal to Europe. 70% was managing the Mediterranean and Ireland. And it was beautiful.
It was absolutely beautiful. So you have these long-term relationships, you were trying to navigate the challenges. But then the European Union was saying, OK, that's it. We are caught in the links we call, and from one day to the next, one year to the next.
Same green energy. Yeah. And they did the same with nuclear as well. So it's not only because coal was the bad guy.
They did the same with nuclear in Germany. And it was like that. It was taking the decision and that's it. So you need to prepare for those things.
But sometimes they happen and nobody's giving you a heads up for it. So what I'm trying to say is that, yes, we're in a crisis. Yes, there is a lot of unknowns. We're welcome to the commodity world.
This is the way we're. And you make a great point there when you say welcome to the commodity world. Because, and you know, something that I've proposed quite a lot in our discussion group that I've only really talked about on the podcast in the series with Felipe and Armhill is that I think that we look at the podcast, the industry. We split the industry between commercial and specialty.
And I don't think that that's the right way that we should be looking at it from 2026 and moving forward. I think that we need to be looking at it where we split it between corporate and independence. And the reason I say that is because for far too long as the independent part of the coffee industry, we have not associated ourselves as being a part of the commodity industry. But we are on a very small scale and we have a very different way of doing business than the big corporates do business.
The big corporates can afford to use the tools that we can't afford to use in the independent side of things across the entire supply chain. And managing risk throughout all of that is usually the tools, the C-market, being able to buy options so that they can hedge against what their position is. That is a very expensive endeavor for, it's a very expensive insurance, right? And that's what it is.
We have to start looking at what we do as a commodity and many people don't. They think that their job is like hospitality industry. Yeah, an element of what we do is the hospitality industry. But you as a coffee roaster are in the commodity industry and you think you're in the hospitality industry.
Do you see where the reframing needs to happen, Augustal? I didn't see it that way. I mean, I'm listening to this concept right now and it makes 100% sense. And I tell you why.
Why I see it. I haven't thought about it. And I told you before, we don't do commodity coffee. But we don't do commodity coffee because the industry is so big that for us doesn't make sense to be part of that.
It doesn't. And there is no interest as well. But in fairness of what you said is totally the way of looking at it because the difference between at least Colombia and with the farmers that we work with, the difference between the commodity coffee and the specialty coffee is that you're picking everything that is there. Yeah.
Rather than picking the red ones. The red ones. Still the same coffee though. It's coming from the same producer.
So I don't see the big definition, the big device like it's to think no because it's the same farmer. It's the same fruit. It's the same. Everything is the same.
It's only you want the red ones or you want everything. Right? Because who are typically sending things to the specialty market before when the price goes to 440, it's a much easier decision for them to say, I know I've been doing specialty for the last three years, four years. I'm going to strip everything and I'm going to send it to the commercial market because it's just quicker.
Yeah. It's the same fucking coffee. It is. It's the same plan.
So if you have a relationship with that farmer, fine, he's going to do the right picking and he's going to explain people how to pick. Why? Because from our species, again, I cannot be generalizing. But usually our farmers who are delivering products, harvest after harvest in the same consistency is because they like to do things that way because they're disciplined, because they like to pick their red ones and the purple ones, but that's the way it is.
They could pick everything and they're going to have what they don't, right? Because the green ones that you live in the plant, three weeks after you compete them again and they're going to be red. Yeah. But it's a position that you need to choose and some of them would choose to pick everything and get the money.
And you're making the point. You have the market at 440 and you have one harvest per year. And you have a problem accessing labor, which is a very real thing. Yeah.
Yeah. And people don't want to get into the business. It's a good generation. Don't want to do anything with coffee and whatever.
So I wouldn't blame them, to be honest, but again, you need to know where the coffee's coming from. Who's behind your coffee? Who is because I wouldn't want to have a business based on, is this year the price is high? So he's going to sell everything as commercial.
If this year the price is low, he's going to sell it as a facility. I don't want to be dealing with that. I like every harvest with that farmer. So you need to understand how you're sourcing and where you're just from and who's behind the coffee in order to be able to at least know what to expect from that farmer.
But I really like that division. I think it makes sense. I think we should be able to have those tools as well and be able to say, okay, well, if you're looking for something that is not a specialty, it's not about being a specialty because it's the same tree. It's the same farm.
Well, and basically what we're saying as an industry, when we separate ourselves out as commercial or specialty, we're talking about an industry that's divided by cup quality. That is a tiniest little aspect of our industry and we need to grow up. We need to understand that we are part of a commodity market that is far more brutal than us at the tippy tippy end of this giant industry. And those people who are running those corporate enterprises, they have the same qualifications with regards to cupboards and curators and all that kind of stuff.
They just don't put as much weight on those things as what the specialty industry does. They care about making sure that good business is being done or not, but they're taking care of the business side of things as much as they're taking care of the quality side of things. And they're taking care of marketing and they're taking care of their customer acquisition strategy and they're taking care of managing their risk and all of those things. But when people say to me, but a coffee roaster just wants to be a coffee roaster, they just want to be an artisan.
And I'm like, then they should go and work for somebody and be an artisan because a coffee roaster in 2026 and moving forward is not the same as it was from 2024 and moving forward. I would argue even in the 2010s because shit has changed so much that if you're a coffee roaster and you are not aligning yourself with the fact that you are a commodity-led business that is dealing in specialty-grade coffee, you're in trouble. 2026 and beyond is going to get really tough. And if you're not doing business with people who understand that, you're in trouble.
And you need to be prepared to get challenges that are going to be different and they're going to come in different ways and they're going to be unexpected. Some of them, you will probably have time to add a heads up or not or see signs about it. But they walk in the park market is not around the corner, it's not? No, it isn't.
Tell me, if you were speaking to roasters out there and you are, but if there are roasters out there that are listening to this and they were interested in what are the risk factors that they should be thinking about if they're not already thinking about it, what would you tell them in order to prepare for 2026? I think we only do Colombia for one particular reason because we're in the country and we know the people of Colombia. But some people have asked us, would you sell our coffees from different regions? And it's a very straight, polite no.
We don't know how coffee works in different countries. We don't know how it's traded. We don't know how it works. Let me tell you before we have in Colombia, we have the FNC.
So there is a minimum guarantee price. So you cannot take advantage of Colombia producer in Colombia, nobody can. I can fly tomorrow with a million euros and go to Sulli and say, Sulli, I'm going to buy your harvest today and she's going to say, yeah, what's your price? I'm going to say 25% below the minimum price and she's going to say no.
So we know that. So we have a level playing field in Colombia and we know the country. We know how it works and we think that we have a structure that works for our customers ourselves and we won't go to different countries. So that's why I cannot talk about the countries.
I would say to a roaster, try to understand how your sourcing is being done, try to understand well, how your supplier works. That is a medium. So there is big ones, good ones, small ones, 20 ones, super happy ones, whatever. It doesn't matter, just understand that, understand how it works so you can be prepared.
If it's a black box that has worked, fantastic, try to identify what's happening in that black box and how it's done and how the relationships are and all of that stuff. That would be my place to start because the other things is just keeping your eyes open and try to follow the market, follow the basics and the fundamentals of it, follow the news about geopolitics and all of that stuff and have a picture of it and have a community like the one that we have that you can talk to peers, you can talk to different actors in the market, you can have different opinions and all of that stuff. So it's about being a community and some of the things that I love about the coffee market is that I was coming from the cold industry and that's competitive as hell and you go out with a knife in between your teeth, go for the customer and try to get it. It's totally different here and I love it and I love it.
I mean, you go to events and you talk to everybody, everybody is super friendly, super happy, nobody is trying to kill each other and all of that. So on that point of view, it's amazing and it's fantastic. I don't have to wear a tie and that suits, I haven't done it in three or four years. Crazy, hey.
I love it and use that as an advantage, build community, talk to people, understand what's happening and roasters, they have different business models and I love it. No, everybody was the same way. Some of them, they have their own shops, they already supplied their own shop. Some of them are wholesalers.
Some of them are very local. Ireland is a beautiful, small country and you'll be amazed, roasters in the middle of the country supplying in their own communities with a six kilo roaster doing 10 tons per year. For some people that is a lot, for some people it's too little, but they're running a business and it's a profitable business and it's sustainable as well. But be open to that, be open to understand the market union because you're a roaster.
You buy coffee and you roast coffee, there's nothing else. Our last question is always, when the future version of you comes back and watches this, what do you hope for him? I hope that we will keep growing organically with our customers. I hope that I would say to myself, the system works, the structure works, don't change it.
And I would say to myself, don't have shareholders to report to. Yeah, I love that. Yeah. Yeah.
Augusto, this has been an absolute delight. I can't wait for you to come back again so that we can continue the conversation with a whole, who knows what Trump's will have done by then, who knows what state the world will be in or the coffee market will be in. But I'm looking forward to our next time on the podcast. It was really, really fantastic.
I really appreciate you being here. Thank you. Thank you very much. And remember, Arcadia is with a team of four and each one of us is brilliant at what they do.
And I'm very, very happy to be able to say that we have a strong team and the work that we have done for the Irish market is available for other markets. So half of the way space already. So we just want to keep making the relationship real. And how can people get in contact with you?
Where would you prefer that they get in contact? Because we have links in the show notes, guys. We'll have links to Instagram and WhatsApp and a website, blah, blah, blah, blah. What's the best place that people can get in contact with you?
So, yeah. So we are four and each of us is focusing something hard to him in logistics, Jessica is in Colombia, doing a cracking job over there, and Mateo is here as well. So share out to them. So the easy way to get through to us is to me.
So probably WhatsApp or email would be easiest and the quickest. Yeah. Email is sales at ArcadiaCoffee.ie. That is right.
Yeah. I remember these things. And we'll have links in the show notes, guys. And as I said, Arcadia is a sponsor of the podcast.
So there's always like in our sponsor links, you'll be able to see it there as well. Only one other thing left to do, sir, will you do us the honor by signing us off for the series? Yeah. Pass.
Amor. I'm peanut butter. Bye. That was the first time in Spanish.
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