I don't imagine all life as you know it's stopping instantaneously and every molecule in your body exploding at the speed of light. Total Protonic Reversal. Protonic Reversal. Protonic Reversal. Protonic Reversal. With your host, Gullin Neutron. Broadcasting from a secret underground lair in Milwaukee, Wisconsin. A gigantic middle finger. Do everything that is rock. About music, rock and roll, and program power. The thing is, though, if you don't laugh, you're going to go to the wrong killing screen to shop in the neighborhood. Don't, don't, don't, don't, don't, don't.
That's like a science thing, right? Indeed, indeed, indeed. It is a science thing. It is a scientific fact. we are all up in your face it is time for the one the only protonic reversal and welcome to it lovely episode for you today they're all lovely let's not kid ourselves but uh we have a special treat for you we have an alien visitor this time and it's going to be uh jay reptoid so if you know reptoid that's very exciting if you do not know reptoid let me assure you that is also still exciting and uh it should be a good time should be a good good time okay so uh what else Catching up on the archives. Yes, yes, I know. There's like 14 episodes behind or something. It'll get there. Just a reminder, patreon.com slash platonicroversal will get you the episodes sooner rather than later. One dollar per month will get you there. I think I worked it out. Something like two cents per episode or something along those lines. So, definitely worth it. But, always free. No ads, no sponsors, no game. Any case, so we're going to be back in just a minute. We're going to play a Reptoid song real quick. And we'll be on with the alien himself, Jordan.
and we'll uh yeah looking forward to that so here we go this dead planet there's a jaunty little number called dead planet and that is a song by an alien entity that is known only as reptoid and with us now we have a visitor we have a visitor visitor please hello howdy there he is for those that are on the brand new instagram uh tv instagram feed you can see the uh the visual components for those without it i will just describe that uh there's a hat it seems to be a pyramid
There's an eye involved. And there's some recording equipment of some sort. There's a green, greenish robe. I would say green is sort of the motif, right? Do you agree with that, Jordan? Are you reading me, Conan? Are you reading me? I am reading you, yes. Are you reading me? Yes, indeed. Thank you so much for joining me, man. I'm getting notifications that my internet speed is compromised. Yeah, glad to be here. I brought my props. I love a pyramid hat. I'm drinking blood out of a chalice here. Maybe we'll pull out some slime later if things get really wild. You're doing it, man.
I'm doing it. I'm here for you. Appreciate you, as always. Thanks so much for coming on the show. The whole reptoid experience, it's something that, well, it's funny you say that, because I think the whole reptoid experience is very difficult to articulate to people unless you are there. So therefore, it's interesting when folks only know the recorded material, which is gaining, of course, more and more traction as a reptoid fever overtakes the nation as the second most popular pandemic within this world.
What would you describe? We're getting up there. It's getting up there. It's getting there. What would you consider or what would you say?
a Reptoid Live experience would be akin to? It's hard for me to know being on the other side of the viewing experience. I don't know what it looks like to you people out there. I'm just trying to hit you with a ball of energy and make you feel it as deeply as it can possibly be felt. And there's a lot of sweat and there's a lot of me not knowing what my electronics are doing at any given moment and trying to react to that. Nothing ever happens how it's supposed to happen.
Yeah, if you've ever had a band practice and you guys are like, hey man, the songs feel good, you sound right, everything's clicking. I've never had a show that felt like that. That's never happened? That's not a thing that has happened before? No, it's never felt like, yes, I actually played the song.
So I'm reacting to a situation that's unfolding constantly. Sure. Of which you're not necessarily always the one in control, which is funny because of course what you're doing involves so much apparatus and so many different pieces to it that perhaps a different party involved might choose to have other people do those things. But it seems like you feel it's better for you to do all those things. Right. When I've described it to folks before. Yeah. Yeah. Go ahead. No, please answer a question. Yeah. We allow that. I mean,
I think, all right, so the uninitiated, it's a one man experience. I'm playing drums. I've got a bunch of fucking electronics. I got triggers. I got things blowing up. I got a giant pedal board at my feet that I'm trying to control while I'm just yelling incoherently to a mask in my face. And somehow this is all supposed to be music. So what I've often said. That's the best I could describe it. No, that's good. That's good. What I've often said is that it's like the end of the world, but in a good way.
because for the listener there's this like brutal attack of i'm glad you picked up on that yeah yeah it's definitely got an apocalyptic bent to it but not not this lame apocalypse like we're going through now but like a cool apocalypse like where stuff's exploding cool apocalypse yeah this is the worst possible version of apocalypse's apocalypse die that we could have chosen um hopefully it'll it'll it'll unfold in a different manner in the future yeah i feel like this was a whoever's in control of the simulation just Yeah, there was a choose the form of your destroyer moment. Yeah, I think there was a choose the form of your destroyer moment, and they chose poorly. So, yeah, like I say, it's... Yeah, whoever's in charge of the simulation right now kind of took it off the rails. Yeah, cut that out. You made your point. Cut it out. So, yeah, end of the world, but in a good... Yeah, let's reset. Reset back to 2016. That'd be nice. That'd be nice. I appreciate the description. It's a lot to handle. It's a lot to deal with. I recall... What I usually do for myself is I'll tell the story of how I came to see Reply the first time.
which was at Eli's Mile High Club in Oakland. And I knew your previous band, Reptilian Shape Shifters. I'd seen you a few times before with Survival Knife and like an outdoor thing, et cetera, et cetera. And I said that you told me like, hey man, you know, my new band's playing. I was like, okay, cool. I'll go check that out. And I did. And they have one of my favorite beers on tap at that place. And it's very strong. And I had a couple of them. And that's when I realized, like when I saw you setting up, I was like, oh, it's just him. It's just him. And then you just kind of.
you know, count it off and like went right into it. And I got to say, it probably was an overwhelming experience for the Stone Cold Sober, but for somebody under the influence of a high alcohol content, heavy beer, it was truly something to behold for sure. Yeah, I think that was probably my second show ever as Reptoid. And as you mentioned, this whole Reptoid thing was kind of like a spinoff of another band called Reptilian Shifters, which was a two-piece. And the guitar player in that band moved across the country. We kind of couldn't do it anymore. So I had just been building tons of gear, like pedals, synths, all kinds of weird shit, for a few years. And it's just kind of sitting, collecting dust. And I'm building it just for the sake of building it. And I figured, well, this is probably the time that I could probably put some of this shit to good use and try to make this weirdo one-man band thing a reality. Yeah, and it's something where I don't think you need to be deeply bought into the conceit of the whole experience to be overwhelmed by the passion that you put forth with it.
it's not ignorable to be sure. Like it's something like good, bad, or indifferent for folks. Like it's going to be something that they're going to be dealing with, which I always respect quite a bit. And it's interesting to me how much you can get over with stuff that you ostensibly mad scientist and built yourself. And was that a matter of, you know, Hey, this will be a fun challenge. Or is that something where, Oh, this, this doesn't exist and I must build it. There's definitely.
a few pieces of each of that element um for some reason i like building gear i love building guitar pedals and i can't play a guitar or another instrument besides drums for the life of me but i had to try to figure out some way that i could be a drummer and use a ton of fuzz pedals um and you're right it's the kind of thing that it can be overwhelming for a listener i think you're either going to hang out and be into it and just enjoy the experience or you're going to want to leave the room immediately. And I'm okay with that. Yeah. There's not a whole lot of, uh, there's a lot of middling reviews or I don't know how I felt about that. Uh, when it comes to reptile, it's like, you're going to be very clear binary concept. It's either one or zero. You're in, you're into it or you're, you're not. It's music for a polarizing times. That was inadvertently not a bad question, but an excellent setup. So well done with that.
So what are, and knowing full well that the whole reptoid experience is a, is a touring concern that you do take it on the road, you take it to other places. What has been your most funny or befuddling reaction to setting up the reptoid live experience? Um, God damn. I said, well, I'm going to, I'm going to change my response and I'm going to make it one of the best reactions I've ever got. Sure. Sure. It doesn't need to be someone just coming up to me.
Right. If someone came up to me once and said, that was the heaviest shit I've ever seen in my life. And that was probably the greatest compliment I've ever received. That's pretty good. I mean, you know, you know, you're doing something that'll get your attention. Right. I want to make you feel something, Conan. Well, you very much do. And it's something where.
And again, other than the short one sense of scripture I've given, I've usually been like, you should just, you should see it. And no one that I've ever said that to that I'm aware of ever was disappointed. Some of them were very confused or maybe shell shocked. Might be the better way to put it afterwards, but none of them were disappointed. So I played something off of the, oh, go ahead, sorry. Playing live to me, yeah. Playing live to me is really the whole point. Like the recorded stuff is great, whatever, but I'm not sitting back at home getting kicks out of the thought that maybe someone's listening to my record. What I really want is to see your face.
in a club standing 10 feet away from me and giving you something and hoping that you give something back. Right. And it seems like that's an interesting position to take for someone that ostensibly records bands for a good portion of your time of living. Basically, you shoot the recorded material as anything other than classic, you know, Minutemen-style flyer for the show. Right. So, do you think that your Reptile Live experience is
fully conceived as it is now or is it just lacking in budget for more oh it's definitely lacking um i'd love to make this huge uh i mean you could always improve but i i have i have a friend who um sometimes performs with me he just hits a drum and i never know what he's gonna do and he kind of just does his own thing and i disregard him completely but he adds something to the experience but if i had if i had my little way i'd probably just have a hundred guys on stage with a bunch of drums and percussion instruments playing along with me that would probably be the full experience it's just like an army of drums coming at you a bunch of minions that all were doing your bidding if you will yeah exactly i can be up on a pedestal somewhere and just have 100 minions drumming along with me and i think nothing would feel better than that so if there was a sort of a vegas stage show if you will of reptoid there would be a sort of a human minion chorus if you will yeah i think
I think I'd like to usurp the blue man group, take that over, make it the green man group. And just a reptoid-themed green man group. That's probably what I'd do if I was in Vegas. I mean, as far as takedowns go, or takeovers, I suppose, that's a pretty good one. I think they're very successful, I hear. Yeah.
You're doing a great job at throwing these questions at me. Thank you. I've done this before. You're doing a great job at making somebody who doesn't know how to talk to people talk. The reason I brought the live sound thing, too, is because that's something that you're basically creating your own nightmare in a lot of situations, one would imagine. The fact that you have a lot of unpredictable equipment, you have a lot of unidentified things that may or may not...
break at any given moment in time uh you mentioned the unpredictability of it as being sort of baked in to the concept is that something you've had to come to terms with or is that just something that you're just figured you're buying the ticket and taking the ride on it's definitely something i've had to come to terms with and realize that i'm actually not the only member in the band um all this shit that i've assembled together has a life force of its own and i need to play with it as much as it needs to play with me If I had my way, it would all go perfectly, and I would be able to play the songs with no errors, and every little piece in the chain would react just the way I tell it to. But that's never really the case. It's entirely frustrating and maddening, probably just as much as having to play in a band with other people that you're always fighting with. So, to answer the question, I think I did. Yeah, yeah, absolutely.
It's completely unintentional, but it's become required. The disaster isn't the show, but it's something that must be part of the show. You're making the tiger part of the show, as they say in the parable. Yeah, you're absolutely correct. So how do you approach recording, Reptoid? Because I know as a mad scientist, where this isn't just your conceit and vision, you're also recording everything yourself. And you're writing it, obviously. You're performing it. There's a lot of things that are time-intensive and labor-intensive and creative-intensive there. Right.
Every reptoid practice is me sitting in a room by myself. Every writing session is me sitting in a room by myself making stupid loud noises. And the recording sessions are more of the same. I'm sitting in a studio by myself. Recently, or not too recently, a year ago, I recorded a full length that's to be released still at Santo Studio here in West Oakland. And my process was to, with some assistance from my buddy and great engineer, Joe Finocchio, he helped me set things up, but then kind of took off.
Let me have the free reign. But it's me sitting in a studio. I have a laptop next to me that's controlling the computer in the control room through screen sharing. And I'm just playing 100 takes over and over again by myself and then trying to find the best one. So yeah, everything I do is made in a vacuum. And then hopefully someday I'm going to play in front of somebody and it's going to click. It's a dangerous way to be creatively when you are in a, not even a feedback loop, a feedback list loop. You're creating this world and you don't necessarily have. Right.
you don't have any context for uh for reaction to it until maybe much later so have you ever found that something maybe didn't work exactly the way that you thought uh i don't think any of it works the way i ever thought it all just i'm just i'm just doing my best to have some kind of control and it's doing its own thing and i'm gonna have to try to control it even harder or let it be what it wants to be so i i am desiring control and getting very little of it as someone who's a relatively together guy is that Is that abdication of control for a very controlled environment something that took some dealing with? It drives me crazy, Conan. I can't stand it. I must have control. Every live show, I walk off the stage and go, fuck, I fucking hated that. That made me so mad. I'm just going to have to come to terms with it at some point. But the struggle continues.
So the focus is on the live show, but you're very skilled at recording bands. But what you're recording is a very raw, brutal thing that a certain, excellent chalice, by the way, that a certain segment of the population will latch onto, but isn't necessarily something that there's a handbook for how to record. So have you made a path forward to more easily do that? Or has it been something that has been an evolving process? No, it's so tedious and done.
yeah so making the music the way i make it is completely artificial right i'm not i'm not playing off of other musicians i'm not even playing off of other real instruments in a way every sound that you hear in reptoid is a sample that's been made by me and it's being triggered by my drums so it's a completely artificial way to make music and the recording process in itself is completely artificial as well when whenever i mean for recently i don't even record cymbals at the same time as everything else i play the drums The triggers happen. They all kind of get DI'd and go off in the computer and kind of just live there while I'm playing drums. And then I'm going to have to go back and overdub cymbals and reamp everything. And there's nothing about it that is like a band playing a room. Yeah, that sounds like a lot of work. But that's fitting for Reptoy, I think. Have you ever considered doing something? Yes, it's so dumb. Every part of Reptoy is so much more work than I want. Have you ever considered doing something that is not as much work? I mean...
i've i've been doing i've been playing in regular bands since i was like what 13 or something like that so this is this is the first thing that's like totally artificial and manufactured and not just musicians playing off of each other and uh it's it's been a challenge i mean i've never even sung or done any vocals in a band before reptoid so the whole the whole thing was just a challenge to see if i could do it and then like surprise surprise a couple people liked it enough for me to say all right maybe i'll keep doing it and we'll just see where this goes and um i mean i'm still surprised anybody could ever get into it but somehow they do so i'm just going to keep doing it until people stop caring so with the with the vocals and you mentioned that that's it's something where their vocals are i suppose the correct way to put it would be heavily processed right they're uh processed vocals did you yeah you could say that when you thought about it and that being part of the presentation and what you're doing you were thinking about the fact that you are trying to do vocals as well as play drums and then like with another limb operate this you know these samples and pedal boards and things along those lines uh
was that technology something that was co-opted? Was that something you just made on your own? Like what, I mean, certainly there's some like an SM58 on a mic stand situation at all. Yeah. I don't trust myself for the mic on a stand while I'm drumming. I'm definitely going to chip a tooth or bust my nose open or something in that scenario. I need to be able to whip my head around violently at any moment. Um, so yeah, I mean, obviously I'm not the first drummer who like strapped a mic to his face through a mask or some other means.
i'm sure i'm sure you've seen it before i'm sure you've seen one guy or another do that and so um of course it's not like my original idea but i'm i'm trying it's it's not something that i'm doing because i'm like oh it looks so cool to have this mask on your face like it's it's so spooky and creepy or whatever it's it's it's all out of utility for me i just i just wanted to have a microphone that i could sing into and still shake my head around i guess so it's it's all just functionality but um yeah obviously i'm not the first guy to do it but In the realm of things being processed, there's not that much processing, but I've got just a little bit of harmonic content, a little bit of fuzz and a little delay. And that's basically it. And I've even kind of dialed it down over the years as I've got a little more confident in my vocal approach. At first, it was just to hide the fact that I don't know what I'm doing with my mouth other than breathing. So I'm just trying to cover it up as much as possible. But I kind of have an idea of what I'm doing now. So I'm able to tone it down and let you actually hear a word or two.
Well, and so that has been something of an evolution from the beginning of the beginning of the process, right? Like that's something that wasn't necessarily... Absolutely. Okay. Yeah, every word before it was indecipherable. I would try to talk to people in between songs and no one would know what the fuck I was saying. And I thought that everyone was just really bummed out on what I was doing and they were trying to ignore me. But I later realized that it was just unintelligible gibberish. And to some degree it still is, but I tried new ways.
Well, yeah, I mean, it's no more unintelligible gibberish. That's funny that would mess that up than any other band or lyrics. But the thing that gets me with Reptoid is that there is actually, there's content within the lyricism. Like, it's something that, it isn't just shouting inanities. Like, you have, like, a worldview that you're presenting that matches the music of some sort. I mean, it's something where, again, end of the world, but in a good way. But it's...
more interesting than you would maybe give credit for for something that just sounds so much like just another instrument that would be buried in the mix. So as you go forward and continue to do Reptoid and change the Reptoid live presentation and maybe lifestyle brand, how do you factor that in and balance out presenting those ideas versus it just being something else that's grinding away that is assaulting people? Good question. Okay. Well, So Reptoid has become kind of a themed experience. It has a message. It has an atmosphere and a world into itself. And that's not something that happened because I sat back and thought about it and thought this would be cool. It's something that just unfolded on its own. And it's another one of those things that I didn't feel like I had full control over. It just kind of happened and I went with it.
So yeah, I mean, if you're into Reptoid and you've heard what I do and you see me live, you kind of get the idea about what my views are, a little bit maybe, and what I'm putting across. And it's just something that came out of me and I feel like I didn't really have any control over, I guess. So how much did the form follow the function? Meaning, how much of that came pre-existing and how much of that came as it sort of took on its own gravity? I mean, in a lot of ways, Reptoid is a character and it's not...
it's not a made up character it's like a part of something that's in me that's trying to get out somehow right let me take a sip out of my chalice here of course we always allow chalice sitting facts encouraged yeah good policy um so reptoid is kind of just a part of me that wants to come out in this form and when i open it up and let reptoid come out reptoid bees reptoid i guess you could say um in a lot of ways i'm not i'm not jordan anymore and That sounds a little weird, but I think being a performer or being anything like that where you have to perform in front of people, you start to realize that you have a persona that you're presenting in front of these people. It's not the same person that's hanging out after the show, talking to friends. It's something else in you that you're trying to portray. And you have a message that you're trying to get across and a feeling that you're trying to get across as that person.
I'm kind of bumbling, but I'm sure some of that makes sense to you, Mr. Conan Neutron. If you think about, like, Alice Cooper, right? Alice Cooper has made a special point of saying that, you know, the guy that goes out golfing is not the same guy that's, you know, getting guillotined on stage. Like, it's a show, but it's also an alter ego. And that he specifically mentions that during...
you know the late 70s early 80s and heavy times of alcoholism like he felt like he had become the alice cooper character in a bad way and it was destructive to his own his own life uh so what i'm getting with that is that there is precedent to it and i think it's interesting because you mentioned kind of becoming the character it's definitely something where when folks have met you they're like oh what a you know what a nice pleasant young man like he's so nice and and well-mannered and soft-spoken and then to see you you know go on stage with this like ridiculous uh amount of gear and set it up and put it in this way that just turns you into this uh green bathed killing machine that is throwing out this debaucherous sound is uh all the more jarring and actually makes for a better effect as as an alter ego than if it you know if you were i don't know either rowdy all the time or if it was Sounded like Mumford and Sons or something when you got up there. Yeah. The Jordan that you and everyone knows is a pretty chill guy. I'm not very extreme. I don't party hard. I don't partake. I'm just chill and mild mannered and I mostly just kind of keep to myself. So being reptoid lets me experience my personality from another side and lets me be outgoing and in your face and scream things at you and just allows the other side of my persona to take hold.
to kind of balance out the chill guy that you actually know. And with that, and with the way that the music is, as we've mentioned many times before, so far, it's a very forceful presentation. It's a, it's a big, it's a big show. And. still waters run deep. I mean, you present as a very, you know, a very quiet man, but I know that you're a very intense individual in your way. And it's interesting to watch that dichotomy and to watch you express yourself in your art. And the reason why I mentioned this, because I mentioned that to someone, I was like, oh yeah, his only vice is Reptoid. Reptoid is his vice. Because where others turn to like crazier forms of expression, let's just put it that way, which you decided to do as Mad Scientist together, a one-man concept band that has a brutalist presentation that...
we'll go ahead and charitably say is an acquired taste, but is also undeniably you. And you've made this world around it. You've created a world, created a universe, if you will, around this thing and this presentation with velocity and force that is completely undeniable. Even if you don't agree with or are interested in the articulated vision, you're not going to be able to ignore it. Well, thank you for getting that. Yeah, I mean, you're right in the fact that I have very few vices in my life. I don't drink. I don't do drugs. I'm a vegetarian.
I live a pretty mild existence, but Reptoid lets me just express myself in a different way that the chill Jordan doesn't come out and do. But I'm sorry. I lost track there. That's fine. You've heard the show. You're right. So with the image that comes with everything Reptoid, there's antecedents to things like the Illuminati. There's...
uh certain other historical figures and certain conspiracies that are involved with it is there any yet it all seems like the the overarching ethos with reptoid isn't tied to any particular ideology at all it just seems to glorify in the in the ride if you will of the conspiracy uh and is that something that you found easy to implement is meaning taking ideology away from uh largely from other like more loaded concepts i bring that up that you know reptilians in some cases were meant to be a analog or substitution for you know jewish people of a higher stature and they control the media and things along those lines and there's certain ways that that has gone but i find it interesting that you've just kept the cool parts with all of it and is that something that's been misinterpreted ever uh yeah to to put this on the record um there's no there's no anti-semitism thread within reptoid whatsoever um but yeah conspiracy theories can be a dangerous thing um i
I'm against fully saying what I'm into and what I believe, what I don't believe, because I want the art to speak for itself. I want you to look at it and figure it out what yourself, what you think it means and take that for yourself. But, um, obviously there's a lot of aspects of conspiracy theories that I do have think are partially true, if not completely true, but that's, that's not the full goal of reptoid is to like put, put that conspiracy message out. And I don't go for all conspiracies, especially, I want to say, I don't go for any anti-science conspiracies to be on the record. But it's something I approach with great interest, alternative ways of looking at the world and the universe. And I think at the very least, it's interesting to look into it and just see what it makes you think, if that makes any sense. Well, sure, it does. And expand on that a little bit, if you don't mind. So talk to me about what are...
I certainly have my suspicions, but what are some of the conspiracies and secret organizations and things that have informed what you have done with Reptoid so far? What is canon and what is not? Well, obviously, I named the project Reptoid. That's after some of the ideas that you might have heard about through characters like David Icke. That's why for sure, yeah. Yeah, yeah. A little sip here, hold on. I was going to say, it was a bit of a complicated figure himself, to put it bluntly. Yeah, David Icke's a complicated figure for sure. Part of his thing is he thinks, literally, I think depending on what time period you're asking him, but he literally thinks that there's shapeshifting creatures.
running muck as humans who are really a race of ancient reptilian beings that maybe have been here before man or maybe arrived from the draco star system depending on who you ask but um but that there's this race of creatures that's hiding amongst us uh they're in control governments they're in control of shadow governments even the media um financial institutions and so forth and that's it's a fascinating idea um you could take with what you will from that but even if you don't believe it literally there's aspects to it um that whole water i think that there's a class of people that are running the show that we're living in and unbeknownst to us many parts of our lives and our reality are being controlled and manufactured in a way that we're not fully aware of all the time right and that would be the thing where where that's been interpreted multiple ways by multiple parties and my favorite with that person
in general is i believe there was some conversation where someone's like oh yeah well you you really mean the new world order the bankers he's like no i don't i actually mean right real reptiles that and they're like oh oh and then suddenly they were bummed out which is amazing they don't have to be aliens or transdimensional beings for the idea to have some weight and certainly so how you knowing full well that there's all kinds of conspiracy and unfortunately conspiracy has gone mainstream in a very real way right if you look at You know, there are many different theories about the global pandemic we're currently experiencing, for instance, that are kind of what we'll call a science optional way of thinking to be charitable. And to me, it seems like the whole reptoid world comes from the more Art Bell kind of school, where you have people deeply believing in something or even troubled by something. And it's not necessarily to pass judgment, but to present an alternate viewpoint that, as you mentioned, is maybe a belief process to explain actual...
situations and power structures that are out of their control be that personal or political right i have great respect for art bell um i think i think the way art bell and um his whole platform kind of took a conspiracy theory angle is that this is something that we can listen to and think about and learn about and we don't have to always believe it but we can use it as information to make us think yeah we can use it to make us think and question our reality and make up our minds from there Now, to me, that's like the punk rock conspiracy theories, whereas a lot of what's floating around right now are more than new metal conspiracy theories, where it's just like, ugh, why'd you take the worst aspects of this and magnify it? New metal conspiracy theories, is that what you said? Yeah, yeah. Like flat bass. Yeah, yeah, exactly. There'd be some, you know, crab walking, you know, just think of all the tropes that you can think of. Yeah, I mean, a lot of that's really cringeworthy. I'm not going to get into that. But what I'm into is just looking at the world from new angles.
I think that's the healthiest way to look at it all. Right. So again, harking back to what I mentioned earlier, what makes it in? Is there like a rule system for like what? There's no rule system. And I mean, I'm not outwardly professing that I believe in any specific conspiracy theories. I'm just going to say that you judge for yourself what you think the message is. And as the consumer of this product, I'll allow you to do that. And I'm not going to get in the way of that process.
So certainly there's aspects of the Reptory presentation that work well. I'm thinking of the alien invader motif of a Raucus lie presentation coming in like a flying saucer attack, for instance, that kind of work with the thing. But it's interesting to me that you've been able to maintain some degree of, and I mean this in the deepest respect, the shtick, even through like weird, very weird non-satirical times, meaning times that are difficult to satirize or lodge through that worldview. Have you found it? trying sometimes to sort of, uh, figure out how to digest that stuff. Um, I mean, certainly you could say reptoid has a stick, but it's, I'm not trying to have a stick. This is just me. This is just something I'm trying to create and it's just coming out of me. So I'm not, I'm not sitting back and manufacturing a stick. I'm just, I'm just putting out what I think and what I like and how I want to be as reptoid. Um, but I mean, the way that it hits other people, I can't control and I don't want to control.
but there have been a few times where I've been contacted by individuals who are highly disturbed and I didn't know how to handle myself in that situation. Like people who are quite possibly going to go off the rails at some point, I don't want to be a part of that. Um, that's, I don't want that responsibility. Yeah. And they're looking at it like they found a kindred spirit or they, you know, or someone to listen to my theory. Yeah. I'm going to, I'm going to say to all those people,
don't look to me to be your leader. I don't want to be your leader, be your own leader. Let's just come and have a good time with me, watch the show and take whatever you want out of it. But I'm no one's role model, nor should I be. So you touched upon it very briefly, but how do you compose the songs that make up the reptoid pantheon of music? Is that part of the presentation? And you mentioned that there's, there's, you know, you went into it very briefly, but I think it's very interesting because you're a drummer as, as far as instruments go by far, but it seems to be there's a,
There's a bit of an expansion of the crayon box towards a lot of this stuff. And I wonder if you might go into depth on that. Yeah, sure. So I'm a drummer. I play drums. I don't really know how to do anything else well. I could fiddle around a guitar a little bit, but I couldn't play a song for you. What's happening in a reptoid writing process is I'm probably making some noise with pedals or a guitar or a bass or something like that. And I'm thinking, oh, that's kind of cool. I'm sitting with a big pedal board and some noise just happens while I'm fucking around. I think, oh, that's cool. I'll record a little sample of that one.
so i have a little npc sampler that i use i'll record a little sample get that down and now that sample can be my kick drum like oh that's cool how does that work on my kick drum yeah i can play a few beats with that sample and see how it works rhythmically and take it from there. Oh, and just build off of that. Like, Oh, maybe it'd be cool with my snare, my floor Tom sample of something else that would play well with that. And maybe I'll have a loop playing on top of that. Then I'm going to trigger with another pad or something like that. And it's, it's all just this trying process of experimentation. I'm not sitting there writing riffs or writing parts or anything like that. It's, it's kind of just this free for all of fucking around and thinking, Oh, maybe that'd be cool if I could trigger that rhythmically in some way. So.
What makes the cut and what doesn't, when you're just basically making sounds? Where's the dividing line? Where's your North Star for that? I mean, that's songwriting, isn't it? It is, but you're talking about composing songs in a way that, I'm going to go and charitably say, is a little more rarefied than a fellow with an acoustic guitar or something. Right.
I actually do spend a lot of time just trying out different structures and trying out different ways of playing with the same sounds. And I never walk away after two hours and say, cool, I wrote a song. It's more like, it's more like I recorded a version of me playing this thing. Now I'm going to listen to home and think about it and think how I could change it. And then I'll come back and change it and add something else and add a new part on top of it and record a video of me playing that and then come home and do it all over again. And it's just, it's really.
honestly tedious process of going back and forth and changing it over and over and over again so i think okay that's that's a song i guess and even after i get there i might play it for a year and be like you know what let's change this song completely and do something different with it and i don't have to teach anyone else i could do whatever i want i could change it in the middle of a live show and that's that's fine so and that's something that i think is notable too that because because of the sort of unitarian nature of the whole thing does that mean you said you find yourself being less precious about things that way because you can change it and there's no one that's gonna wait what are we doing different anything along those lines um i would say that i'm overly precious about it because i'm trying so hard to control this process and get out something that i'm that maybe is in my head and make it reality and it never turns out it never turns out the way i wanted it to but I have to try to be precious and then let it become what it becomes after that, if that makes any sense whatsoever. Well, so again, where are the walls in the building? When do you decide, cool, that's a thing.
Honestly, it's almost always at the four-minute mark. Whenever I have four minutes worth of stuff, I'm like, that feels like a song. And usually when I start writing something, I'll be like, you know what? I could just put two parts together right here, and that could be a song. And maybe I'll write a short one this time. Maybe it'll be one minute or two minutes. And then every time during the process, I'm like, let's add something else. Let's add something else. Maybe put some weird noise over this. Add a weird noise thing over that. And it's almost always at least four minutes. I go from four to eight minutes, somewhere in there. I think if it's long enough for me to get really fucking tired and want to stop playing, then it's a song.
So it's exhaustion-based, is what you're saying? A lot of the way I write music is exhaustion-based. It has to be like, do I have energy for this part right here? Maybe I'll make an executive decision and put a part where I'm not playing a lot of drums really fast, really hard. And then I'll catch my breath for a moment. And then I'll play something really fast and really hard again. So do you ever think about that when you're arranging the songs, as far as making sure that you have room to breathe?
Absolutely. I have to write parts into songs that just give me a space to breathe for a second. And sometimes I'll write a song and I'll put it all together and say, fuck it. I can't play that live. I can't sing for four minutes straight, yell my ass off and drum as hard and fast as I can for four minutes straight.
I need a little break in there somewhere. So yeah, there's a lot of practicality that has to be baked in. And that's the whole challenge with Reptoids. I can't make this song exactly how I want it to be. I have to try to find a creative way to make this sample play off the floor tom and trigger this other thing that starts another thing that stops what was before it. And it's a lot of me switching pedals around and stopping and starting loops. And I can't have it the way I want it. It has to be built with practicality in mind. And that applies to my human interface as well.
Just being able to do something, engage the exhaustion level, and tone it up and down based on whatever I'm physically capable of doing. It seems like there's a lot to keep track of. It's so fucking much. It's so dumb, Conan. this is like people ask me sometimes like how do I do that I want to do a similar thing um and I always tell them not to because it's it's so dumb and it's so hard and you get you get so little in return when you could just jam in a room with two other people and write a song and it just feels instantly great there's there's none of that in reptoid it's all slogging uphill in the mud but that said there is something there is something to be said for something different something that is not like everything else that is that is unique and strange and it's i'm not saying that the american public especially craves nuance uh because i'm not a fool but by the same token when you're when you're walking that sort of path you do tend to find other like-minded individuals and find other folks that along the way do get what you're throwing down uh and as for as an example uh you know there is that addition of dope guns and fucking in the streets that
there's a Repcoid song on. And that was a Tom Hazelmeyer thing that he specifically put on some newer bands that are trying to get people out of the mindset of stuff that they listened to 20 years ago. And can you speak a little bit to that process and, you know, how that whole experience went for you? I have to be up front and say my memory is such shit. I forget almost everything that ever happened to me. That's Tom, so don't worry. Okay.
I'm pretty sure he just contacted me out of the blue. Actually, I'll take this back. Now, it's coming back to me. I met him when I was on tour with you, Conan. Oh, right. On tour as one of the secret friends. I was not throwing down bait there at all. Right. Well, credit where credit's due. In a way, you opened that door up for me. I was able to meet Mr. Hazelmeyer, and we had an excellent lunch at Grumpy's, which is Grumpy's still there? I'm not sure. The downtown Grumpy's is actually now closed, unfortunately. Okay. Yeah. It's a pretty big bummer.
But so we had a great lunch there, hung out and checked out his art studio, which was amazing. And then, you know, kind of went away and forgot about it for a while. But after that, he contacted me out of the blue and was like, just like, hey, I'm going to do this thing. Do you want to be a part of it? And obviously I had to say yes. I mean, that's such a huge honor to be part of that legacy.
Yeah, I mean, it made me feel great about it. But I really appreciate the fact that he gave a few unknown bands a chance to be heard on that platform and to be a part of that long-running compilation that includes so many of our heroes and so many bands that we've been listening to for decades. Yeah, and so did you find that that was a shot in the arm for Reptoid in the fact that it's a trusted source, it's a trusted name and weirdness, right? Sure. I'm just doing this weird thing, and sometimes I'll get a little hint that people are digging what I'm putting down.
But to get a little bit of recognition in that way and a little bit of just acceptance in the community that like, maybe I'm producing something that's worthwhile after all. And maybe some people actually like this thing. And maybe I'm striking a note or hitting a nerve. And it's worth continuing and worth continuing to put my heart into. It feels really great to have those moments when so much of it is just the uphill slog that I mentioned, just working this tedious process and playing shows for 10 people and driving really long distances to lose lots of money.
We live for those little moments where it feels like the thing that we're doing is actually worth it. Certainly. And again, when you're doing something that doesn't have a quick boilerplate description that someone can latch onto and lock into as well, it's already an uphill battle. Then you take into account all of the activity that's required to do the thing at all. It's daunting at best. It's probably the best way to put it.
What are some moments that make it worth your while? Like you mentioned the person that said that was the heaviest thing I ever saw, which is pretty great. Yeah, it's moments like that. And that's why I love playing live so much is that, I mean, I love to perform. I love to play the music. I love to just totally exert myself 100% and tire myself out. And if someone comes up to me after the show just to say one little nice word, like that makes it all worth it, honestly. So it's just having that feedback and knowing that I maybe made a difference for somebody in some weird way.
that makes it enough. So would you say that there's a lot of, you know, for lack of a better term, fellow travelers for the world of Reptoid? Expand on this term, fellow travelers. Meaning others that aren't necessarily sharing, if they're not sharing, nobody, let's be clear, nobody's sharing your exact vision. But for folks that are like-minded individuals for musically and mindset-wise, folks you consider compatriots, trench, fellow folks in the trench, et cetera, et cetera.
It's hard to find a bill or another band that I think, Hey, Reptoy is just like this. I got to play a show with them. Those, those bands are few and far between. Um, I've kind of been able to strike a chord within the quote unquote noise rock community, even though what I'm doing isn't like Jesus lizard or unsane or shellac or whatever Melvins. Um, there's some, there's some common thread in the fans of those bands and the bands that they're playing in and Reptoy. And somehow we've been able to, to work together in a way that makes sense. But.
if are you asking me to name another band if you want to i mean you don't you don't have to i'm just saying that like who would when you think of uh allies and enemies right who would be who would be some allies that you would think of that were if they're not doing a similar thing you find common cause with um i'm gonna take off my hat here to answer this question very seriously no um I think a band that I work really well with that I love from Seattle is called Haunted Horses. And I'll just throw that out there. Check out Haunted Horses. I don't know what they call themselves. Maybe it's industrial punk or something like that. But they're another two-piece thing. At this point, they're also entirely sample-based. They're triggering samples they've made through a keyboard and through drum pads and shit like that. But they also have kind of that industrial influence, dark punk, whatever the fuck it is. But I love those guys. I've played with them a few times. I'd love to do it again.
So you mentioned before that you feel that the best presentation of Reptoid is the live experience. And it is a live experience. But as someone who records bands, you want to be able to present something in a recorded format. Right. What's been the biggest challenge about trying to get this in a recorded format so far? Put on my consume hat for all of those who are joining us visually. Consume hats, $25. Come on. Bandcamp merch page. We'll link that in the show notes. Only two left in existence. I've got mine. I have not gone shopping with you yet.
God damn it, Conan. Summarize that last question again for me. I'm sorry. I got distracted plugging my wares. You pivoted to selling hats. Yeah, hats for sale. Come on. Challenges for recording Reptoid is what we're talking about. Oh, right. I mean, every recording, up until this latest full length, it's not released yet. Every recording was just meant to be a demo. And then I started over mixing the hell out of it because I have the time to do it and the means to do it. And I thought, well, this is good enough to release. I guess we'll press it on 7-inch or whatever.
I'm a recording engineer, so obviously I have all the gear. I have a mobile rig that I could just take to my practice space and record a song any day I want. And it's not that much of a production. But the challenge is, as any recording engineer has, is to try to get this thing that exists in the air and put it down through electronic means and make it translate in the same way. Right. How do you make something that's supposed to hit you in the chest translate to you wearing earbuds? You're not going to be able to get that across just because of the mechanical limitations of sound. You're not going to be able to necessarily get that across in the same way. Right. So like any engineer, all I can do is do my best and try to make it the biggest, baddest, heaviest, loudest, noisiest thing possible. And maybe that'll be half as good as it is live, hopefully.
So where do you feel that the vision of Reptoid is versus what you would like it to be in your head? I was joking around about the Las Vegas State Show with the main chorus, but is it really that far off base? It's not far off base because it's become what it is organically. I mean, keeping in mind that it's completely artificial, but I've made this sound just through experimenting and thinking, oh, that sounds cool. How can I change that? Okay, finally I've reached this level where I can just write music with the gear I have and think that...
I'm pretty locked in and I can just keep doing this. Goddamn, I lost sight of your question again by a constant pathway. The overarching vision, the full-on vision. Oh, yes. So there isn't necessarily an overarching vision. I'm just kind of like taking this as it goes and seeing what happens. Like every song, I'm just like, maybe I'll try something new here and do something a little differently. And it's all just unfolding organically in front of me. And I've accepted the fact that I have very little control.
And I'm just playing with the happy accidents and making the music. So I'm just, I'm just going to keep doing that because control is an illusion. We spent all our lives trying to control everything, but how much control do you really have? You just have to work with what you have in front of you and keep rolling. Talk to me about the, about the hat, about consume. So this is consume hat. It's a black hat with white embroidery.
And it says consume on the front and reptoid on the back. This is my version of the MAGA hat, um, made, made, made in Vietnam, but, uh, embroidered in Los Angeles. Uh, if, if anybody has seen, and you should see the movie John Carpenter classic, they live, you would probably understand this hat a little more. Um, the whole premise of they live is very similar to the whole premise of reptoid in that there's these shapeshifting entities that are running among society, disguising themselves as humans and secretly controlling us. Right. And, um,
That concept was made into a movie. I couldn't tell you which year. Somewhere in the 80s. John Carpenter, classic. I would hope anyone listening to this show would know they live. Starring Rowdy Roddy Piper. Doesn't get much better than that. But there's these sunglasses that are being manufactured that our star finds. And he realizes that he can see these shapeshifting entities in their true form. He can see the billboards and advertisements and magazines.
And he could see the true message for what it really is. It's not an ad for cigarettes. It's just a black text on a white background that says consume, right? Things like that. So consume is one of the messages from They Live. And I think that movie has a lot of messages that parallel our own reality. And if you haven't seen it, go watch it right now. But it's interesting to think about it in the fact that...
The ads that you're seeing, the commercials you're watching, the messages that you're hearing maybe from the government or from industry leaders, they're not saying they're here for you. They're not saying we want to be there for you and help you. Maybe they're actually just saying buy our shit. Keep consuming. Stay on the path that we laid out in front of you. Keep making money for us. Likewise and so on. Which, yeah, in the comments they're saying it's 1988. 88. Not much has changed, honestly, as far as that goes for consumerism. Right. It's a bold hat. I can't wait to go shopping with it.
Yeah. And then talk about the song. The song is just on the same element. Yeah, the song is very much on the same element. The song is from the Dope Guns Fucking the Street Volume 14, as we talked about a little earlier. But yeah, the song is very much on the same element. And that overarching theme is a part of a lot of the Reptoy songs. I actually have a hard time writing a song about something totally different. So there's not going to be an album of Reptoy that I love songs, like songs to invade your lady's planet with?
Uh, I mean, I can't say no, but I would have to be pretty old. So what do you, when you're trying to get a message across lyrically, uh, in the way that you are presenting everything else with, with reptoid, does it choose, does it change how you choose your words? Let's put it that way. Um, like a lot about pragmatic concerns, like making, like leaving in spaces for breath, things along those lines. Yeah, it's another part of this challenge where I'm trying to get something across, but I have to do it solely within means that I'm capable of doing. And maybe this thing that in my head has to change to fit what I'm actually capable of, right? I can't just be screaming my ass off the whole time nonstop. I have to tailor it.
my dynamics and I have to leave one little period here for me to suck in air before the next thing starts. Right. Because you're not just singing, you're also hitting the drums, you're, uh, samples. There's, there's, you know, I get it. At times it almost seems like you have octopus arms going on. I have to. Um, but the way the lyric writing unfolds is a lot like the rest of the music. Like I don't sit down with an agenda. It just kind of happens and I roll with it and, uh, I modify it based on.
you know, how many syllables I can do in this bar and how many syllables I can do in that bar and change it and tweak it until it's something I can do. And it still gets the same point across. And is that a trial and error process? Or is that something that you feel like you've got? That's completely everything. Reptoids trial and error. I don't, I don't know what I'm capable of until I try it. And then I might do it a hundred times and say, fuck that. I can't sing this part over these drums. Like something has to change. That's, that's the challenge of Reptoid is trying, trying to bring the concept out and trying to bring out what I'm thinking. But,
with methods that are so limited. I can't just have this song and this beat and have everything the way I want it to be. I have to change everything just to make it be able to become, if that makes any sense. No, it does. And it's something where it seems like it would take a lot of patience to do one of these things, let alone all of them. So much Conan. I have endless patience. I'm a patient man.
talk about no human also speaking speaking lyrically i need to refill my chalice refill your chalice can we take one sec yes go ahead virgin's blood one moment okay jordan is gonna go sacrifice a virgin and drink off his mighty chalice i'd like at this point to mention uh reptoidx.bandcamp.com is the Bandcamp page to find most things Reptoid, if not all of them. I know there's an upcoming record. I mean, we'll talk about that as well. Thank you. Yes, thank you, Raiden Oak, Instagram, for posting that. Appreciate you. All right. I'm a quiet man. I'm not used to talking this much, to be honest. I'm a pretty quiet guy.
Ron and St. Virgins are overrated in the chat box. I'll take any blood I can get, to be honest. Yeah, I mean, if you're going to self-quarantine, you can't be choosy about your blood. Right. We have to be flexible on our demands in this trying time. Flexible about your blood demands. Yeah. That could be a new Reptoid Song title. So no human is what we're talking about. No human.
let me remember which one that is every song title is a fake song title i don't call it that in my own mind it's just something that i had to i had to name it something so oh no you know he was the one that's on the secret friends split right it's on the protons and electrons so it's correct um a lot of that one has again we're going for the end of the world sound right i'm riding you through the apocalypse but a lot of that song is kind of about what we were talking about earlier and in the fact that Retoid is a persona, but it's not completely artificial. It's a part of me. It's part of who I am that I've chosen to let out in this fashion, right? And a lot of No Human is about kind of the masks that we wear in daily life. Maybe you have a mask that you put on for work, a mask that you put on for your social life, a mask that you put on for your family. And we're all faking it and we're all trying to be human in this way. And what part of it is real and what part of it is just the mask? I think that's an interesting part of the question, kind of what I'm exploring in that song.
It's one I certainly heard a lot. So it's one of the reasons why I thought there was some lyrical content there that was, if not more relatable, certainly less ethos intensive as other reptoid songs. You don't have to be a reptilian shapeshifter to understand the idea that we're putting on masks in our daily life to try to present who we think we are or who we want to be. And each one is tailored to each individual situation. And it's just kind of an interesting thing. I was exploring that one.
Can you speak about the record? I think it's been announced, right? In no official form, really, but yeah. Let's break the news here. This is the place to break it. Yeah, let's let the cat out of the bag. Learning Curve Records. I recorded this thing a year ago, over a year ago. It's been finished for a long time. My goal for 2019 was to release this record in the summer and do a big tour and do...
PR campaign and all that kind of bullshit, right? But that didn't happen, partly because I spent too damn long mixing it and partly because I had some health issues that kind of kept me back last year. But I'm back and I'm full force now and ready to not tour again because we're in a pandemic. 2020 was supposed to be my big year again, releasing debut LP, big tour, PR campaign, blah, blah, blah. But that ended up not working out either. So I don't know what's going to happen with the record now. The record's called Worship False Gods on Learning Curve Records.
And it's being printed right now. We'll see when it's done. Who knows how long it's going to take. Yeah, who knows what position anyone's... Who knows how many more people will die between now and then. Maybe the vinyl manufacturing plant is still running. Maybe it's not. I have no fucking clue. My plans are on hold. I don't know what's going to happen. Am I going to release the record whenever it's ready? Am I going to hold out for the big release with tour that I wanted? That's probably not going to happen for at least another year. So I kind of haven't figured it out yet.
We're just going to have to see how the situation unfolds, Conan. It's a developing situation. I appreciate you breaking news I've already known about for a really long time. It should have been a year ago, to be honest. Like, I've just been sitting with my thumb up my ass. Assuredly not the case. So, Jordan, I want to thank you so much for spending time with me and doing this and going full bore, as you always do with all things you do. And it's been a pleasure. The last thing, it's the only canned question I ever have. It's just ask folks, why do you do what you do? Because I don't know any other way to be. That's as honest as I can answer it to you.
Well, I'm glad that you're the way you are, and I'm glad for the music you make, and I'm glad there's more of it coming. Thank you very much, Conan. You're the man. Love you. Respect. Take care, brother. Stay safe. All right. Later. And there he goes. The Reptoid. The Reptoid. Turn so low. That's not the time for freaking OS upgrades. Come on. We're in a show here. Yeah, so ReptoidX.bandcamp.com for most things Reptoid. Let's hear Consume. Okay, that was No Human by Reptoid. That is off of... Well, I know exactly what that's off of. That's off of protons and electrons. Atom5.
The Cone of Neutron, the Secret Friends split single series that's available on vinyl as well as digitally on any of the normal things that you would find your digital stuff in. Let's see if I don't have the scram feeding where I can turn that back up. Okay, cool. Yeah, ReptoidX.bandcamp.com. Before that was Consume. That is off of the Dope Guns and Fuckin' in the Streets soundtrack volume 7,005. I don't know what it is. 14, 15? Sure. That's great. Also comes with the Reptoid hat, the Consume hat.
Well, let me tell you, folks, I'm not much of a hat person, but I got that hat. Let me put it to you that way. I don't know why I said it in that voice, but I did get that hat, and I'm very excited about it. So, okay, cool. What are we going to do here? Let's play another Reptoy tune. One more, then I'm going to close it out. And, yeah, let's do Overlords. Overlords by Reptoy. That is one of many tunes by Reptoy. I forget what that is. Scum Supreme, I think is what that's on. Anyway, whatever. You can find it on the internet. Find it on the internet where the rest of that stuff lives.
There's also a Mission Recorders YouTube thing I would highly recommend for people that liked what they heard. I recommend it even if you didn't like what you heard. Regardless, here we are. Okay, Dronsalo, Reptoid. That was a treat. Love that dude. Reptoidx.bandcamp.com. Check that out. And I hope you do. And I hope you do. I don't know why I said it like that. The name of the show is Cone of Neutrons, Protonic Reversal. It airs on RadioNope.com. Podcast at RadioNutron.com. For free, always. No ads, no sponsors, no kidding.
Patreon.com slash Burtonic Reversal. It's just worth the show. One dollar a month will get you all the episodes immediately as soon as they're available. Words and all. Now compulsory. Everything's always free here. Rob Montage of Wax Eater tomorrow in my personal timeline as well as Tony Visconti. David Bowie, producer, TRX producer. It's been Lizzie. It's Thursday. So stay tuned for that. What else?
Yeah, buy that consume hat if you like hats. Can't think of anything else better to go shopping in. Stay safe out there. As always. Take it easy.