Paleo, carnivore, high-carb, low-carb, high-fat, low-fat. Does it really matter what you eat? Well, maybe it's not what you're eating, but what you're absorbing. And I don't mean biosomosis, because that's a whole different thing.
And not even what you're absorbing on this podcast, the movement move with the podcast where people want to know the truth about what it takes to have a happy, healthy, strong body. We typically start talking about the feet because they're your foundation. And now we're going to talk about some things that are a little higher up. It's also a foundational thing.
You kind of got the hint. Anyway, I'm Stephen Sashan, CEO, co-founders here at issues.com. This is a podcast where we break down the propaganda, the mythology. Sometimes the outright lies you've been told about what it takes to run, walk, hike, play, do yoga, crossfit, skydive, play dance, revolution, whatever it is you do.
And to do that, enjoy it, play it efficiently and effectively today. Say enjoy it, play it as a trick question. Of course I did, because if you're not having fun, do something different so you are, because you're not going to keep it up if you don't enjoy it. And we call this a movement movement because we're putting a movement.
I'm going to talk about that in a moment. It involves you, no pressure. About natural movement, letting your body do what bodies are made to do without getting in the way in the name of a technological advancement. I put air clips around that.
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So let us jump in, Oliver Wood, please tell people who you are and what you're doing here. Steve, I love that. My name's been in the health of space for a bit of part of Gekko now and I absolutely love your background. I'm a huge fan of the zero, zero lift shoes and the whole foundation starting from the ground up.
And that was very much my background as well. For me, I grew up in a very small town over here in New Zealand. I'm still back there and very much grew up on Whole Foods, Real Foods, Kneesville with the ground, connected with what I was eating, all of these things. And going into all of the slots from rowing to rugby to even the bodybuilding shows down the line and just understanding all the different nuances, skill sets, how I would eat, how I would move for all of these different categories allowed me to just be a sponge of I really don't know what I don't know.
And everything as soon as you start learning, you realize how much more you have to learn. So this last year, Adam will continue to be just a complete exploration of how do I make sure I feel better, how I function better and how I do more stuff in a way that my body is working with me on the way. And I think that's a huge part of your message as well is just looking at it through the lens of how do we tune in, how do we make sure that this body is working as well as it can. And that's really been how we've structured our entire approach is it's not just a case of forcing the body to exercise more.
It's not forcing you to drop your calories through the floor. It's not throwing in an arch support when you think don't work right. It's taking the time to look at all of this stuff and make sure that you're actually in terms of what's actually happening underneath you. Okay, yes, we're done.
So I agreed. Now, I got it back up. For people who are watching this, we're going to have to address some elephants that are in the room. So elephant number one, you have this wonderful little clothing accessory that you're wearing.
So people can start paying attention to that. Yeah, I'm in a sling. I got a broken wing and this is my third time I've had a broken wing in the last what three years. I had a pretty big motorbike crash back in the end of 2022, ended 2020.
Sorry. And it was kind of a near death experience to me. I was going about 140 miles an hour, 200 Ks over here on a track. So I wasn't on the road and having complete complete break failure.
So coming into a corner doing that sort of speed and the brakes do not work. So I hit the wall at that sort of speed, managed to drop a couple of years and get some speed off the bike. And luckily I managed to jump at the very last second, rather than splatting the wall. And I went 30 odd meters.
I can't do the mass into feet right over the top and landed inches from the road. The fence missed the gutter, missed the road and somehow landed somewhere in the middle. So it all things considering I have a power sign I would stand up, but I've got a couple of rear-attached tenors in my shoulder that have taken a while to be reattached. Holy smokes.
So I want to dive into that for a second just for the fun of it. While this whole crash was happening, I love you saying you dropped a couple of gears to try to get some speed down. While this was happening, what was happening in your mind and body? And I'll tell you why I asked about it, but I'm going to let you start.
Yeah, well, the whole experience of going to a track day is adrenaline anyway, right? Like you're just going around circles really quickly in order to somehow have some fun. It's been a lot of my own petrol process. Right.
So in the moment, you're very much already in a very heightened sense state anyway. I'm really, really glad that I didn't freeze because I'm assuming for most you would in that space. My goal became very narrow in on, well, I'm going towards the wall and I have two options here. I either jump off now and roll and probably break everything or I hit the wall or I find maybe a third option and try to jump somehow and I just jump at the right second in order to get over the wall.
But there wasn't much more going on than that. It was just like, well, I didn't go through a whole recollection of everything like I'm about to die. It was very much like, this can be really, really bad. And there's a couple of very, very small options that I haven't played.
Brilliant. Because I have a friend I spoke to this morning actually who he developed a, it was a neoprene vest that did real time monitoring of all your physical actual data. This is 10, 15 years ago when this was not really possible. And so they had one of these vests on a race hard driver who, they're just looking at the screen and looking at the guy's vitals and seeing his heart rate, seeing his respiration rate, bunch of other things.
And suddenly everything just got really slow and really low on the chart. They're like tapping the computer to make sure it's okay. Then they look up and the car is just rolling. And while it's rolling, the guy in the car could not have been more relaxed.
And when asked about that effort, he said nothing for me to do. I didn't wait to see where I land. And it's just a wild thing that people can't even imagine what that situation is like. And I'm sure what I just said makes it even more unimaginable.
But you added something that's in that same vein. Yeah. If I got excited, I would have freaked. So I think from a survival standpoint, you have to say some people come.
I don't think I was that calm, but it was very much like a situation where we do, this isn't going to be good either way, but let's see what I can do with it. Yeah. Those situations are fascinating. You're giving a flashback back when I was in Jimis mode.
I remember vaulting. And at one point, things did not go well. And I'm like 12 feet in the air, rolling slowly and I'm realizing I'm battling in my head. And in about a second, I'm maybe dead.
And I pulled it out of wherever and made it slightly past my head. But those moments, and I'm sure many people have had them, they don't get talked about a whole lot. I mean, I was in 10 minutes squared during the 1989 when that was all a mess and got caught in a shooting spree and had six-ounce pointing machine guns at my head. And I tried to decide which one was going to have the pleasure of pulling the trigger.
And I say this very casually now, it was 1989. But B, when I really think about it, it was the most lucid I've ever been in my life. Everything was very crystal clear. And same thing, it's like I'm just looking for an exit.
I'm looking for an exit. I'm going to jump and not hit a wall. And I say it definitely changed my life. It was a very profound technique.
I just don't recommend it. Yeah. Yeah. And so one of the things as in terms of elephants in the room, so I'm assuming the helmet behind you is the helmet you were wearing when you were riding.
And whatever you want to call the image of the car behind your head is that one. What is it? There's a jagiv time. Nice.
So I'm not sitting on the garage. I forgot I got a photo for the office. I was going to ask if you had one that's really not. I'm like, my dad had a jag where an XKS and he let me drive it once and I'm taking a turn at some very fast speed.
He got very uptight. And I said, that's what they made this car for. And he was kind of a little grumpy. And then we pull onto the road that was heading to the house that I grew up in, which is pretty much just a straight road for about a quarter of a mile.
And he says, all right, pull over. I said, wait, pull over. I said, wait, pull the damn car over. So I pull over and I stopped the car.
I said, what? He goes, OK, Florida. Yeah. It's good, man.
Yeah, for the next day, you should know what that shakers because it was very much so full of same concept. Well, it looked very familiar, but there's a lot of cars that have that shape now. Yeah. I mean, I hate to say it.
It's a little Tesla-esque in that shape. I don't know. But I mean, look, there's only so many ways you can make things aerodynamic. All right, look, I'm going to be a total geek.
Have you looked at the Aptera? Do you know what I mean? The Aptera is a three-wheel solar powered battery, solar powered EV. It's the most aerodynamically efficient car ever made, APT ERA, or even better go to zero issues.com slash Aptera because you can put a, I think it deposits like a hundred bucks, but if you go to that link, you get 30 bucks off.
Anyway, they're hoping to start producing them en masse within the next six to seven months or so. It's crazy. And they're inexpensive. You can get a solar powered electric car for under $30,000.
It's totally amazing. Anyway, and very fun. All right, but back to where we started. So my opening, inspired by something you and I said before I hit the record button, was it's not about what you eat, but about what you absorb.
And that's a really interesting message for a number of reasons. It was funny. It, or coincidental, Laina and I watched the show 60 Minutes last night. And I think what we watched was actually recording from a week or so ago.
But they were talking about this drug, Semiclutide, which has been very effective at helping people, especially of these people lose weight. It reduces your appetite in a number of ways. It also has a bunch of side effects. But the interesting thing was they had a number of people who were very overweight claiming that they were eating very low calorie.
And there was a hint that maybe these people were absorbing calories differently or better, more efficiently, I guess, would be the appropriate way of saying it, or that their metabolism was freakishly slow despite the fact that they were very, very overweight. And so this whole question of absorption is one that really doesn't come up very often. And then throws a monkey wrench in the whole question about which diet you happen to be on and what seems to work for you. So given that long, ridiculous intro, say more about what you were thinking about what we're talking about with this whole question of absorption versus ingestion.
Well, the issue, as you just mentioned, is that if we're in the category of trans-drop body fat, we start to notice that if there's initial deficit that is every man in the dog knows we'll start something, it becomes a way to elicit some of your fat loss. Now, the problem is, is if they're just focused on the intake of food in order to create their deficit, then they get to the point where they're lowering and lowering the amount of food they're eating to the point that they're eating a couple of their sleeves and the moment. They're no longer at a point where their body's operating at a particularly high level. So looking at the other variables here that actually play a role in how we can improve how our body absorbs, how it's going to burn foods overall, some of the food is going to have a rock.
So if we're looking at this through a binary lens of intake of food and output of exercise, then we tend to be playing quite an hour game. We're looking at it through a lens of being machine. Well, let's start there. So the big, one of the biggest arguments in the body recomposition world, let's label with that for the fun of it, is it just calories and calories out or is it something else?
And spoiler alert, every bit of research ever done says calories and calories out. But what you're just saying is that we may have a difficult time actually measuring what the calories in is at the very least because of what your body does with those calories. Did I get that wrong? Yeah.
I think the best summary of this is if you say it's just calories. You're 90% right and you're 100% right because you're looking at it through the lens of, again, you're trying to track it, but you're not looking at how the body is adopting to the outside world. Now, the best focus that we've been focusing on recently and our audience, if you were, is very much focused on business owners and contractors and people that are very much in a production sort of output type space, that there's a huge aspect here where stress-alcy plays a role, but it's not simply the reduction of stress. It's the resilience of stress itself because stress is not a level but a threshold.
And when we look at it through the lens of what's happening with our sleep, what's looking at our recovery, our movement, just all of these things that come back to a happy whole human, it's going to make a huge difference on how our body is reacting to the outside world. And if we take them to account, this whole equation, although it's still an equation, we consider other factors of other variables that are actually going to play wrong. So without trying to make the whole thing complicated, we're looking at tuning in. And that's really where we started today, is looking at it through the lens of movement, how we are just going for a mental health standpoint, which is amazing, or are we going into another spin class to block out the outside world and stress our body out.
And sometimes that can be beneficial, sometimes that's really the last thing you need to do right now. And we tend to see this pull of eight type personalities getting pulled into another spin class rather than just sitting down and maybe breathing for five seconds. So there's just a big conversation. So that's a very interesting point that people who are stressed to begin with because of whatever they're doing for their life or how their mind works, I think maybe have a natural tendency to lean towards some other high intensity activity, whether it's high intensity intervals or spin class, et cetera, which it's interesting.
I don't think I've thought of it that way as it's just adding on to the stress load that you currently have. And if you've got all that cortisol running through your body, that's going to affect what you do and don't do with food and what kind of foods you're even interested in, et cetera. So that's a fascinating thing. I keep thinking when you talk about sleep, it's one of my all time favorite things is checking my weight before I go to bed and then checking my weight when I wake up.
So my favorite is checking my height before I go to bed and then checking my height when that was the first time I did that, it was like, holy crap, I have five six for about an hour in the morning. And those days are long gone. But I love the losing weight while you sleep part. I find that utterly brilliant slash hysterical.
And I think so much about a diet book that's called Lose Weight While You Sleep and the ideas that they just put in a coma for a month and then you end up in the perfect weight. Interesting, I did. So if type A people tend to lean towards these high stress activities as well and that could get in the way, say more about what might be happening and what would be a more appropriate intervention and how that relates to this whole thing of what happens when you're taking in food, when you're in the high stress and more stress situation versus whatever the opposite of that might turn into. Yeah.
So the biggest thing, when we started to look through the lens, we saw this specifically with the authority clients, right? And we started to see that there was a nutritional element here, there was a nutrient deficiency verse and a stress, there's something else going on. And then it's like, well, let's have a conversation about stress because the stress through the lens of psychological and what we're doing to adapt the outside world. But then there's also physically what we're going through.
Now there's a very different type of stress through stimulating the nervous system verse more of a metabolic type to mount. Now there's going to be a significant difference on how the body adapts to that stress based on whether that is metabolic or whether it's more symptom based. So when we look at it through the lens of whether it's far and functional, what we look at through historically being quite a chronic level stress situation, i.e. someone's work at a high level, no human or even animal has ever been designed to be stressed for long periods of chronic time.
There's supposed to be short bouts and obviously we went through that whole period of a quarter old bed and they realised when they blocked that entirely nobody had any idea to start with. So there's absolutely some benefit of having a quarter old wake up and a natural spike of cortisol when exciting. But it's now chronic for 6, 8, 11, 11 hours throughout the day. Now we're running to some really big issues, right?
We're breaking down muscle tissue, we're storing more body fat, we're pulling a lot of the blood away from our digestive tract and more towards our muscles because we, you know, our body naturally thinks we're going to go fight awfully instead of sitting in the chair and just getting kind of pissed off in our native, right? Of course, I'm driving past us. So there's all of these negative responses to cortisol being high for long periods of time, which we need to regulate at some degree. Yet what we're doing is by to de-stress, we see all of these people putting themselves in a position of either blocking stress entirely, which is the alcohol, the caffeine, the TV, whatever, which we know is not particularly helpful.
And then two, there is a, I'm going to be fit, I'm going to force myself into spin class, and I'm just going to stress the body out further. So we have two polar opposites. We have one where we aren't undernourishing the body yet over consuming and we really run into quite a sluggish state. Or two, we have a space where we're really trying our hardest, but our body's not even changing.
It's not responding. We feel worse and we're dragging ourselves through this process because we need more discipline, right? Rather than actually working with our body. So it just becomes a more wholesome conversation around how we talk to ourselves and often what is the result of the activities we put in our day that are truly effective rather than just forcing change.
And as you know, as we start to get older, you know, through agents age and age and life, it's going to be a significant adjustment in how we operate, how we exercise and what we get there for tells. When we were 21, we probably found that, you know, we just stopped having the pizza on the Friday night and we go for a couple of runs and it seemed to work a little bit different now, right? So it's not just an accuracy of information, but I think truly the conversation comes around relevancy at what agents they do at currently. Are you someone that's been fit for a long period of time, you feel your body's operating with you?
Or are you trying to now make some changes and you feel sluggish, you feel run down and things aren't responding the same way? So there's a big part there as well. Well, there are a couple of thoughts that you just gave me. One is, so how do you know?
I'm actually only 20% of it. Oh, here, child. So, wow, I don't think I've said this to anyone before. I'll say now, I'm over twice your age.
So I drew 60 recently. So there's two thoughts. One, I imagine that even just try to go on a calorie restricted diet. I don't imagine an over fact that adds in the layer of stress as well, since your body is trying to keep metabolically sound.
There's another word that I was looking for. Homie stasis. There we go. Your body's trying to maintain homeostasis.
You're putting it through this caloric deficit, this little stress, which ironically can just add to the problem. That was not one. Not two. At 60, the annoying thing, yeah, it used to be that I don't have pizza on Friday and I weigh a pound less on Monday.
Now, getting that last five pounds of body fat down, which I would love, it's not the last, but getting five pounds of fat down would make me a better sprinter. I'd have a better strength weight ratio. Man, it is a bitch. It just doesn't want to go.
And I'm not very responsive to dietary interventions, but I am responsive to activity. But the problem there is at 60, I can't recover fast enough to do the amount of activity and the type of activity where my body would respond accordingly. So, in this interesting catch 22, where part of me is like, yeah, whatever. The other part is still trying to optimize what my body can do because I like competing as a sprinter.
And I'm just thinking about how this starts about either of those because I don't remember where the hell I started that whole thread. It's almost to go down there. I think and the big thing for me is clearly at 20, my focus here is not on what works for me. It's after working with specialised clients in 40s and 50s.
So, there's a huge amount of understanding of, okay, they're not responding the same as me. This isn't working the same way. What's different? How do I start?
Just asking good questions are going further down the route. So, certainly through the clients I work with and I'm assuming you're on the same code, but the same conversation is we tend to go from being maximised in our 20s and then we start to actually have to force towards being optimised at some degree. I'm just going to say today, he was getting ready to do like an ultra marathon type, you know, cross-country type run. And he's like, okay, well, I know how you did this run 20 years ago.
You would have started running 5 to 10k every single day and you have built that up until you got to the event. Now, I suggest that's probably not the best strategy. We're going to look at how we increase your fitness without and reduce joint impact as much as possible so we can actually get you to the event and build up that in other ways, right? So the focus really becomes not how can you get more done in your data?
How can you get more of an impact from the things you're doing? So I think that becomes a really nice shift and it allows you to have, you've still got some very miserable goals, but how you're getting there might be different. Well, you reminded me, there's one of my all-time favorite exercises and it's apparently very good for sprinters is the Nordic hamstring curl for people who don't know. You're sitting on your knees, you have your feet held down and then you, you're just kneeling with your feet held down and then you try to keep your body as straight as possible and lean forward by hinging at your knees until you fall on your face.
And then ideally you can come back to it. And that's all thing. Anyway, I was trying this like doing a couple sets of eight, three times a week and I was just never making any progress. And then I went to doing like five sets of five with a good two, three minutes rest in between once a week and suddenly made a huge progress.
Now I can do this exercise. I can go down, I can do that repeatedly. And I was stunned and both pleasantly and annoyingly stunned that that was the protocol that worked for me because it wasn't psychologically satisfying to just do this thing once we can get the results. That was so funny.
Getting the results wasn't as satisfying because I wasn't putting myself through the paces. I wasn't having to, I wasn't working hard. But that's what worked and I don't know if that'll continue to work for other exercises because I don't, I mean just getting basically my feet ankles and hamstrings and butt stronger the only things I care about at the moment. Other than a little vanity, I'll do, you know, for the sake of vanity, I'll do some bench press, I'll do some chin ups.
But I don't need that. That's just to make my wife happy. But that, good. I was just going to say the biggest observation for me initially was I started in the triathlon space before I went into rowing, which is kind of a really horrible mix between endurance and sprint anyway.
And then moving into bodybuilding, which is very, you know, like just explosive power and no endurance. So I re-forced myself into three different categories and how my body adapted to each one of those, you know, extremely different in how my body felt. But one of the things I noticed in the triathlon space and the endurance space in general was when I got older, I must be able to be better at doing triathons in a, in a, in a, in a more endurance type scenario. And as I understood more about the physiology and what was actually going on, it's like, well, actually you don't get better in endurance.
You just tend to get worse at sprint. So people tend to do things for longer. Yeah. And they don't, you know, and you're in a beautiful category here where you're holding on to the level of power, explosive power to keep yourself young, strong and functioning at a high degree.
Right. Whereas most people, when you see this in a, in a gym is you'll see 30 signals and you'll see one or two rows, right? Or one person doing sprinting because it is much easier to walk for an hour rather than get up and go for five minutes. Right.
I'm not saying it's better, but it's just easier. And I think when you shift that to really, as we get older, focusing more on that explosive power and that strength, the impacts are obviously drastically, you know, they're very helpful, but two, it also takes a very small fraction of time. People are just not willing to hit them. It's hard.
I mean, you know, this is the thing when I go to a master's track meet, it's sort of like having a secret handshake with the other athletes because we're working really hard, not for very long, but it's just very difficult. There's no prize money involved. There's no bonus points involved. No one really cares.
I mean, at 60, here's the thing, it's so funny. You go to a track meet like an open track meet for people of all ages and everyone's like, you know, going crazy over the kids that are up to 25 or up to 30, maybe they're the fastest people there. And that's very exciting. They get a lot of attention and everyone in between, where I'm now, no one gets a crap.
And so it's very upsetting. But what's, but what's, it is interesting, it's a silly, and also we're really, really competitive, which makes no sense because there's no reason to be that competitive. But the fun part is we're all old enough to know that what we're doing is difficult, pointless, and ridiculous, and we love it. And therefore, again, there's a handshake of like, hey, we're both morons and I've literally never met on the track that I don't adore because we all have that weird thing in common.
But yeah, I mean, sprinting is way, way harder. You know, pushing yourself to limit is way, way harder. And interestingly, and I would argue this is, this is going to sound funny. This is a weird version of ingestion versus absorption as well, is finding that balance between how much effort you want to put out and because you enjoy it and what you think is going to be beneficial and what it does do to stress your nervous system where, you know, the next two days, you're going, I never want to do that again.
And finding that balance, you know, finding the right dose where you can absorb it in a way that it's nutritional, nutritious versus something that is more catabolic and, you know, and psychologically difficult where you think, I can't keep doing that. Yeah. And I think, you know, just simply asking yourself, what is the goal is something that will change over time and through the simple lens of health, wealth relationships, right? Which one's more of a focus right now?
And we tend to see very natural, like, okay, January, we're going to focus on building a health back into a space we're happy with or, you know, there's a September, October period where we've got to double down work and get these projects. So there's always a natural tendency to make those adjustments around what is the focus. But what you're going there is this kind of a separation of like, well, there's health as a category, but now we've got performance, span, lifespan and health span. Now if something's focused on performance and I'm getting really for an iron man, well, it's not really helping particularly well with my lifespan, but there's a balance of all three of those.
So I think it just becomes very clear on what is the goal in making sure it's your goal, not your personal training space, and then really being able to optimize a little bit closer to what that looks like. There's actual steps, your goal. I think that that little Venn diagram you just painted a performance lifespan and health span is a very interesting one. And it's an interesting introspective exercise because I mean, I wrestle with this one.
Like I know that having more muscle mass is better as you get older. So I should be if I really pay attention to that, I'd be spending more time working on hypertrophy and building more muscle mass. But that gets in the way of what I'm trying to do on the performance side, which we know power athletes tend to die a little sooner. And so, you know, that's the thing that I enjoy doing.
And then the life span part, that's the part because, you know, there's the fun component. But it's, but, you know, that's a really, I think people are going to, it's an interesting exercise for someone to go through to think about how to prioritize your time and effort based on how those little, those three circles do intersect or whether they intersect at all. Yeah. I spent a whole afternoon on this about halfway through last year, just like trying to understand this whole concept.
But it was really just came from a conversation with our coaches around, are we truly optimizing towards their goal? Because once they hit the first, you know, 10 kilos, weight loss or whatever it might be, it's like, cool, I took the health back. And like, well, what does health look like for you? Right?
Because health is not a, you know, you took it and then you never have to worry about it. It's a, how do we make sure there's something you want to do every day? And what are those tips look like towards something that you're pursuing? And I really love the, you're probably going to have to use that sort of something around, you know, everyone's focusing on the people building up to their mid 20s or 30, whether it's absolutely at a peak.
And then everyone's congratulating people over the city because they're still going. But then there's this whole space in the middle of like, rediscovering a recreating yourself and finding a driver or a pool that is not getting into you, even if it doesn't bring them out. Right? And I think that's a really, really important part.
Well, you know, I've given up the idea of winning certain races because there's some, I mean, I'm a genetic freak, any sprinter is a genetic freak. But there's some guys who make me seem, you know, like, I don't even know what I'm doing. A friend of mine who, his times, he's 62 or 63 and he's running times that any high school kid would kill for. I mean, the guy's just a machine.
I'll never come close to beating him. So my goal is just hitting an all American time every four years or every five years when I had a new age group, and which, and they get incredibly slower, you know, like they go from, so the way Masters track field works or Masters track is every five years, there's a new age group and in that age group, there's certain times that you have to hit for to make an all American. And if you look like the 100 meters, it goes down by a tenth and then two tenths and three tenths and then a second. It goes off a cliff pretty quickly.
Like the first, the first senior games I was at, I was 50. So I qualified and there's a bunch of 60 year olds telling me, just wait, when you turn 60, it falls off a cliff. And there's some 80 year olds standing behind them going, dude, you have no idea. And you know, so, but having that goal, like, like the only thing I care about, I don't need to be faster than it was last year.
But if I can just keep hitting all American times every time I enter a new age group, that would make me extraordinarily happy. It's an identity that I enjoy having. This is an interesting question. I just want to ask you a question, but based on the decline in overall performance, but your consistent motivation towards hitting a time, how do you detach the actual outcome being declining this your motivation to keep going?
My motivation hasn't changed. I mean, it's still the same. I mean, I really, I enjoy competing. I enjoy training.
I enjoy sprinting is like going to Las Vegas because it's all intermittent reinforcement. You go to Las Vegas, you pull the lever, you cross your fingers, you pull the lever, you cross your fingers, you win, you go, and then you keep holding the lever. Springing is the same way. You can't do it perfectly.
There's, I mean, it's a very simple thing. You come out of the blocks, you drive, you stand up, you go as hard as you can, you hold on. But there's always something that goes wrong. So like the joke is at the end of race, what's this had to do?
And I go, do you just want a number? Can I give you the excuses first? And I also enjoy the competition because you can't fake that. You can't fake what happens when there's a guy right on your shoulder, either right in front of you or right behind you that you want to beat or that you're afraid of even you.
And I like the psychological component of that because like it took me years to learn to, to metaphorically stay in my lane where I'm just focused on what I'm doing. Not what the people around me are doing. And so I just find it all really, really enjoyable. And then having that hitting that all American time goal adds to it.
It gives me just enough to get me off the couch, but not so much that I'm really, you know, really all tied up and not about it. In fact, I got my first indoor track meet this coming Sunday. And frankly, if I hit an all-American time, then which if I don't, I'll be stunned because from the 55 to 59 age group, I think it was 8.5 and I was running 8283. And now it's 8.9 and if I've dropped half a second between two years ago when I ran an 8283 to now or at least almost a second, then something is very wrong and I'll be depressed and want to figure out how to fix that.
But if I hit it, then I can just relax for the rest of the end of the season. So ultimately, in summary, there's a competitive nature which allows a chronic camaraderie aspect, but there is also kind of a there's a measurement against the performance band that you have at certain areas. So that's kind of cool. Yeah.
It's, I mean, that's what's so really enjoyable about master's track is that there is both the opportunity to do the silly thing competing with people for no reason. And there's an objective measure as well that you can use if you want. And I know some guys who come to the track who will always be last, but they just like that there's A, that camaraderie and B, it just gives them, you know, there's a reason for getting out there. They're not trying to win.
They're trying to get from the finish or the start to the finish. And I applaud that. I know that if I was, if I was a little faster, the urge to compete and try to beat that you know, my friend who will, I'll never beat would be obnoxiously high and I wouldn't enjoy that. And I was slower and I wasn't showing some form of competence.
I wouldn't enjoy that either. Yeah. Well, I just, you know, I've been bloke that joined our community yesterday. His, his entire thing, he summed it up beautifully.
He was 74 and he said, my entire thing is making sure we went, my mind stays go. My body doesn't say no. And I really liked that link, right? It was just that awareness of my mind's always wanting to find a new thing to do, but my body's always talking my way out of it.
So it's just trying to get a connection between those two that feel like I'm on the same path. And you know, this whole tuning in is part of it that I think that explosive power focus drive at some level, if you can just keep that going, and rather than just kind of leaning into the, the comforts of the world that will just make you feel slower, more run down and less able to do it once you stand back up. I think that's a really cool conversation as well. Yeah, there's little things that I notice on a daily basis where like, you know, getting up from the floor without using my hands or, you know, as a man or running up the stairs, you know, three to time or whatever it is.
I mean, I also like, if there's anything that I can do, any physical thing that I can do where people half my age can't do it, that makes me extraordinarily happy. Yeah. And so, and I got a couple of those. Yeah, right.
Like, what I can't string is one. I can't do anything that I can do where people are like, well, how do you do that? And some of it is because I've been doing it for 40 years, but some of it is I've been working on it. And so, yeah.
So I'm not suggesting that anybody else should have that whatever, you know, competitive nature that leads to some of these things that I do. I guess the reason I even bring it up is really to kind of invite people to figure out what it is that makes them tick and what's enjoyable. Like I said, at the top, if you're not having fun, you're not going to keep it up. And so, and to this, and to be clear and candid about it, I'm still working on the having fun phase for some of what I do.
Like, I've got this, I mean, this great home gym. I've got like every piece of equipment that I would want. Look at that crap anymore. And so finding that right balance is it's challenging.
And it's gotten more challenging as I've gotten older, where I just don't have the resilience that I had where I could just push through it or the motivation that I had where I would just push through it. Because again, in my 20s, I could still compete at a reasonable level. And so that was motivating. I don't need to do this now.
So it's a whole different game. And I guess where I'm going with this, the reason I'm hacking out with you in real time is another Venn diagram of just what it is this enjoyable, why it's enjoyable, and then the how to do it in a way that works with what your body and mind can do. Yeah. I was going a different way.
I was thinking more down the lines of motivation and where that stems from, right? Because you have it, but it's underlating. And I think that's normal. And I think there's a huge part here where people that are the most resilient are usually the ones that self-compassionate, right?
Because even being yourself up inside your own head, you're not going to have to be good spot than what I'm going forward. So I think that's really, really helpful. And I think if anything, that's a... Let me ask you a question about motivation.
Because this happens both as an athlete at whatever level somebody might be, but also happens in business where people ask me often, they say, well, what motivates you to do what you're doing in business? And I go, what are you talking about? I got shit to do. Yeah.
So, it's like, what makes you make you Ant-A-Beats, we have 72 employees, I'm primarily responsible for making sure that they get paid. I don't need to do something to get psyched up. Does it mean I enjoy it? It's like, this is what you do.
So, what's your experience with, let's call it intrinsic motivation versus extrinsic motivation? And what you've seen with people as they have, do they try to psyched themselves up or do something or are they trying to find a thing that naturally gets them out of bed and enough to do what they do? Yeah, so this blew up my face. I love this conversation because I was in a world that for at least 20 years, everything was about some sort of external gut, right?
It was the triathlon. It was the rowing championship. It was the bodybuilding middle spear. all of the stuff.
And then it was business, right? And hitting certain accolades and business goals and all the stuff. And then you hit all of them, you're like, what do I do now? And if your focus was entirely on the goal, there was just a bit of a, the motive that it was needed for the money, it was needed for the middle.
There was one photo that I took on the bodyboard stage. And these things here are not there because of the award. It's more the reminder of the photo that I had when I got on stage. And my face was blank, like, job done, onto the next, right?
Like, I got a pause. When I became an American gymnast, which I had worked three years to make that happen, I literally was confused when people were congratulating me because I said, we set out a plan. So what's the next step to that? Right.
Right. Yeah. And I've been in that space so we thought, well, you expect the goal, you take it off and you move on. And I think there's a celebration of the point that I completely missed that I've started to realize it's helpful now.
But as you've just said, is you move from those initial accolades and a narrow focus to nearly a responsibility type thing, or often just coming back to like how I conduct my day and a level of standard that I hold myself to. And I think that's an important shift that you bring in this beautiful sort of competition space where you're able to do it regardless of who else, you know, who else is involved. There's a driver for me that I'm going to, and anything, it kind of highlights like a healthy version of comparison. But for me, I went through that whole space while also breaking everything in my shoulder and going from the fittest, best shape I've ever been to kind of feeling like that entire identity removed.
Kind of like, you're in a space where you're being the NFL staff where you're going to find it, you know, reach the other way. So I went through that in the same time that, you know, we hit business targets and I was like, well, what's next? Nothing's driving me. Nothing's pulling me.
So it shifted to that space of, as you mentioned, responsibility for me personally, it's a level of standard I hold myself. And I think there's a really nice phrase that's got to me the other day is ordinary people come extraordinary when they raise a minimum standard. So my goal is never hitting the perfect day every day. But there's a minimum standard that I hold to myself and it's typically a lot higher than most.
And that's simply just, I don't know why, but that's just literally the nod to that I have for myself. Does that make sense? It does. It made me think of another barometer or another yardstick.
Some of you know, there's been something going on for me lately that to make a very long story, very short, I've become hyper aware of my mortality in a way that has been so unbearably pleasant. I don't know what to do with myself. Like little things that are mildly enjoyable are now like extremely enjoyable. Random things that are literally random, like the other day I'm walking our dog and I wasn't paying attention to where we were and I look up and I realize, oh, we're really close to home.
And for some reason, just seeing the corner that was like the last corner we turned may be unbelievably happy and everything just feels very precious. And it's added a different flavor to the way I'm perceiving all of this stuff. That I don't even know what to do with it yet because it's still very new for me and I just haven't ever goes away because it's just so delightful in recognizing that even if I have these goals, what's happening now is enough, or maybe even more than enough, frankly. And I don't know in a material sense, I mean just breathing in and out and having people that you care about and vice versa, food that tastes good, just a dog that is utterly delightful.
I mean, these little things. And it's just turning me there as we've been having this conversation. That aspect of stuff has been sort of on the sideline of what we've been talking about up until now. Yeah, I think the beautiful part of that, this is I don't think either of us have the answers.
It's just we have literally communicating what we're sort of discovering as we walk through it all. But I think there's a really nice space where you've clearly gone through a space of growth in company to a level of maturity of all these things and then you found like a happy medium. And I think that's a really interesting space where a lot of people stuck in a, went into the next paycheck or just trying to have a horta. And then there's people that are born into wealth and then they have no direction at all.
But when there's a growth from nothing to something and then a recalibration in the middle, I think there's a, it allows you to get some, it gains a different perspective on what you get out of life and what you focus on because at the end of the day, something that initially was upsetting to me, but is becoming more of a relief than anything is that nothing matters, right? It's like great meaning of it. And I think it's an important part that you've done with your sprinting. But it's like, I understand that nothing matters unless I create meaning behind it.
And I think that's been a continual look for me at least that maybe I haven't closed yet. But it allows you to look at that level of what I see or deem valuable. And I think when you have a whole team of senior people behind you, or in my case, 20 odd people, there's just a deep sense of, well, these guys are all here with me and we've created this incredible team and there's just a growth path where we feel around the same line. And that becomes deeply meaningful.
What more is there to life than what I've created meaning behind? Well, that means it brings me back to sprinting. My favorite thing is at the beginning of a race, this happens repeatedly where someone, and typically someone who's looking very intense looks at me and says, hey, good luck. Or you have to race, whatever, I go, hey, look, you know, there's no prize money at the end of this.
Just I hope you stay healthy, don't get injured, have a good time, and oh, right, by the way, I totally want to kick your ass. And so, you know, I just like saying, because it makes, and you know, I do something funny. You can't use me to think of this. I do something funny at the beginning of a race.
I look at the finish line and I remind myself that the only reason it looks far away is because we have binocular vision. If you close one eye, you can't really tell how far away something is. And if you think about it, if you really want to get fun about it, you think that the only reason you're perceiving it at all is because there's some weird thing happening in your brain after, you know, information hits your retina and then goes back to your brain. And it's all sort of internal in a way.
It's kind of, it's like a dream. And when I do this, I'm not describing as well as I could, but it's sort of like the distance between the start and the finish collapses. There's just, there's this visual image, the distance is a concept. And so it feels like I'm not having to run anywhere.
There's nowhere for me to go. Do you know what a really fun way of having this experiment played out as? No. Try rowing when you're facing out the direction.
Oh my God, that's really interesting. Say more. Well, you know, one race will feel 5K long and some will feel 1,000 meters. Like really was that big?
Because the only thing that you're really playing off is you have 500 meter, you know, distance about, that's about 500 down, that's 1,000 down, that's 1,200 down, last 5,000 go. Right. And, you know, race is where you've got people behind you that you're chasing, you're like, where are they? Always feels like a longer race, rather than when you're out in front of seeing everyone behind you.
So that whole concept of distance and time and stuff really is quite different. That's really fascinating. So what's it like? I'm talking about staying in your lane, you know, when I'm running, but when I'm running, there's either somebody, you know, some amount of in front of me or I hear them behind me.
Yeah. On the rally side, what's that like when you are not the one leading and you can't see everybody? How do you deal with that? And ultimately, it's summed up as if they're behind you, the last great, if they're in front of you, i.e.
behind your back, life's horrible. Because you're constantly chasing, you don't know where they are, it's horrible. So the balance really for me was, how can I get out of the gates as quickly as possible without using all the energy through the race? But I know that there is massive value in getting out quickly, so I know where the whole field is in order for me to stay there.
So, yeah, there's a massive drive in that first crucial, 250 metres in order to be out in front in order to make sure I know where the whole field is and go from there. Are there other people who had a different relationship with where their place was and could handle that not being the lead well enough and sort of internally enough? They pulled it off at the end. Yeah, the only way that it plays out any differently is if the boat isn't at least a full boat in front of you.
So, if you're an eight before something bigger than just a single where you can focus on like, okay, I'm up to number eight now, I'm up to number seven and I'm pulling them in and it becomes a whole really in-processes of what I can see in my periphery, as opposed to if you have to turn around and their way out there, it's game over. That's what I got into thought about. I love rowing, I hate getting up early enough to roe. Yeah.
I mean, literally, it's sort of like, yeah, if I have to wake up before six a.m. to do something, it's just not gonna happen. And around here, that's the only way to do it. Do you miss rowing?
I do. Only from the same conversation you're having around the sprinting is there's a level of, you know, when a boat, if the whole boat works together, it's just simplicity of their click happening at the same time, all of that stuff just is brilliant. But there's probably a fantasizing over the good parts, as opposed to the all of the days, but the structure and the whole space of just having an aligned crew and then being a sound to that aligned crew, I think it's pretty cool. No, I'm gonna go back to the intermittent reinforcement thing.
I mean, when I first was learning a row, I'm in an eight and it's mostly middle-aged women who are in the boat with me. And the woman in front of me kept yelling me, why do you keep hitting me with your aura? So because you're not getting out of the damn way. And, but we had like three strokes where everybody was in sync and it's just magic.
And I could only imagine, it's sort of like, you know, somebody said to me and I will confess, I've never had the experience he'd come about to describe. He said, there's that time when you're sprinting where your, just your form is right on point and it just doesn't even feel like you're running and you're going faster than you ever have. And I went, yeah, I haven't had that yet. But I had that in that boat for a minute.
And I can only imagine if you've got, you know, seven other people in that boat with you and they're that good that that feeling must be even better than that. And you go past every liking and you're like, ah, I want to roll in there. It stays with you perfectly by the time. Yeah.
That's really dreamy. That reason a whole other thing for, you know, figuring out, by the way, we got to come back and we start this conversation about absorption and ingestion versus diet. But before we get back to that, finding something to do where there is that possibility of that sort of transcendence within the action itself, I think that's highly underrated or not necessarily understood or, you know, and the interview. I think it's massively rated where it needs to be for the people that have achieved it.
But like you said, very few people put in the time the effort or the focus notice we've achieved it. So there's probably not talked about that much because very good people got that point. Well, there's also certain activities that in general, differently than others. Like rowing, when it's really smooth, it's just really smooth.
And there's just something about the act of rowing where that's a possibility. Running, there's that possibility. It's a little different, actually. But there's some activities where, you know, it's just not built in and where you don't have that, that kind of, I don't want to describe it.
That relationship between what you're doing and how it's working, where it's that immediate and the outside part of it is as important as the inside part of it. Because you know, what's happening around you on the water, if the water's choppy, if the water's smooth, if you, you know, if you cram it or, I mean, there's all these little things that are external to you. Yeah. Some of it you have control over, some of it you don't.
But every now and then it all lines up. And I'm just thinking about the number of things that are like that. And there aren't a lot. Yeah, I think the only lens that I would look at through, well, my thought process with what you're saying was flow usually is on the other side of you doing something for a really long time.
Doing the boring work for a really long time and all to get good at something. And most people are not willing to put in the time to get really good at something because it requires a lot of years of delayed gratification. And that's kind of what you were, you know, is taking the time to get through the choppy water or do the boring work or do it when nobody's watching or just take the time to refine a skill to a level of focus and flow. You know, because flow really comes from everything aligning together.
But there's so many stimulus that need to come together in order to be one fluid movement that regardless of what skill we're not only saying that because I've been able to be part of so many sports and I've experienced flow on the track, kind of experienced flow, even in a body burning space on a stage, which is the last thing I'd ever think I'd find flowing, the rowing. You know, that's the thing. Like just being able to spend that, you know, I probably think it's 10,000 hours and all of those things. but to a substantial amount of time in each one of those sports that's what this whole thing feels like.
And now, you know, watch, and it's the same as reading a book, you know, 10 years ago when you knew nothing about this, but there's a couple things that were kind of interesting now. And then I went back to a book, you know, five years ago, I'm like, this makes sense, this makes sense, like 100% this, right? It all just makes sense. And then I went and watched a MoGP thing on the TV the other day and I was like, finally, I was out leaning in the corner, seeing who was trying to get us like, he was holding his revs at a certain level, like all of those things that felt like flow because I understood what that skill set required and knowing that there was a whole, it wasn't just getting on a, you know, I did follow as well for a amount of time.
So it's not even just jumping on a bike and twisting an accelerator. It's like, now you've got this whole animal underneath you having to run as well. So there was all of these areas of, you know, a whole bunch of things having to align in one space and all of that kind of work. So I think that's a, that's, you know, it takes quite a bit of time.
Well, you just highlighted something though, that I think is the biggest difference between you and me and I don't know if we'll be able to resolve it. And that is, my fantasy is to have enough money to go to bookstores and buy all the business books and take them out into the parking lot and burn them because I find them all so completely useless. It's all, you know, survivorship bias and hindsight bias and people trying to make a living by, you know, coming up with some story that makes people give them money and the story is always here is how to make money. And that's how they make money.
I just find it all reprehensible. And my wife early on said something like, you know, I feel like I don't know what I'm doing. I said, no one knows what we're doing. No one's ever done what we're doing before.
Our job isn't to know in advance our jobs to figure out every day what we need to learn and then hopefully learn it as quickly, as humanly possible. And that's a boring business book. Or if I had to give a lecture on business success, it would be try to prove that there's a market for what you're doing before you waste a lot of time effort and money and then just crush your fingers. Work hard, crush your fingers.
Yeah. Yeah. Well, the biggest, quite the best guidance I think I've had on reading books is don't read something that someone's trying to say something. And how do you do that?
And I will start with people that are no longer alive and focus on things that actually weren't over. No, no, no, you can't do that. Because a lot of those people who know a longer live, they wrote those books because they were trying to sell you something and then they just died. So, you know, people don't know.
Maybe that's not a good filter. Yeah, yeah. Or at least if you know that there's been something solid in the day, you know, I think things like... Even still, I'll tell you why.
People, this is a variation on reading a book. Somebody said to me, hey, we have an opportunity to pay some amount of money to go to Nectar Island, which is Richard Branson's Island, and hang out with Richard Branson. And I said, why would I want to do that? And they said, well, you're a business person in a marketer.
I go, yeah, well, imagine what you could learn from him. I said, I can tell you right now what I've learned from him. They go, what? I go, I'm not Richard Branson.
I mean, that's it. Have you ever had your own mentor? No. Yeah.
Yeah. So I've come from a much younger, and I think one of the big things that I think I've taken, the only thing that's worked well is that I've taken the time to be like, I know very little about this thing. And I will look to, I've got one or two things. I can spend time on money in order to learn.
And I've definitely had measurable adjustments in learning the skill quicker. And that got me to a level of getting my head above water and seeing what the difference was between applicable skills moving forward and then just building this big, like I'm going to talk about the what without the how. So I got very good at putting a book down after two pages, because I was like, this is just building a story to talk about a what without the how and how to talk about afterwards. But I think that space, and I just had a conversation with a guy that's joined us in our community today, was talking about it through the lens of, well, at the end of the day, you've got to do the work.
I'm absolutely not doing that for you. I'm just going to make sure that we can have a discussion of you running the right direction and that click for him to be like, well, now it's just a guidance of those subtle little tweaks now. Yeah, because there's been very few periods in the last sort of six years, at least where I haven't had some sort of coaching on the side. And so I've maybe biased all that's one thing that's different here.
But I'm certainly into a space now where I've done some things and I've done to realize there was a lot of people just talking about what they're hoping to achieve, or I'm not actually done. And that space is not very fun. No, anyone who's made their career by teaching people how to make money, I couldn't care less about. Anyone who's never sold a physical product, I don't care anything about.
Anyone who hasn't tried to upset an industry, I don't care anything about. And then you're left with picking up nobody, or then you're left with this rare group of people who are by definition, they're inimitable. They are weird in whatever way that allowed them to do whatever they did. And often the people around them are putting them on a pedestal inappropriately.
Like, I'll name names. Everyone talks about Steve Jobs. The number of people who allowed Steve Jobs to be Steve Jobs is huge. And if everyone thinks that Steve Jobs, they're missing the point.
There was a whole bunch of other people and they go, well, Steve Jobs who hired them. We have this fondness for idolizing individuals. And it never works well. It always ends badly.
I mean, my god, look what's happening with Elon right now. I don't know how he's going to do what he's going to do coming out of this if he'll pull it off or not. But it's, but there's, I mean, people forget that Elon bought Tesla. He didn't start Tesla.
And there's just anyway, it's a peculiar thing. But I think a lot of the things that you could learn from a whatever, from a coach, a book, whatever, you get forced to learn most of those or you crash and burn. I mean, that seems to be the way of it. It's like, you know, you start doing everything on your own, then you realize you can't do everything on your own.
And then you do one of two things. You keep beating your head against the wall, trying to do everything on your own. You crash or you go, geez, I got to find some other people who know how to do this better than I do. And then you have to manage them because they never have the same motivation that you do.
And I'm assuming that's probably where you're at in your company now is if you've got that many people come through, you've gone through four or five people's by now of, you know, managers or levels of control that need to be given in order for Steve not to run whole thing. Well, my wife's done a better job than I because we have a COO and CFO who took over what she was doing. I'm still doing it on my end on the marketing and product side. And I'm not saying this to pat myself on the back quite the opposite.
My biggest problem is that I'm really good at both of those things. And I see that other people don't see. So I'm always going to have a role until someone tells me they just don't need me anymore and they hand me a big water money. But until then, I'm always going to have a role.
I'm never going to be able to turn it over just because I do it better than the average bear. And so my goal is to make it so that the things that I do well is all I'm doing and not all the extraneous stuff. So it's like if somebody writes a, I don't have to say, someone gave me a press release and said, what do you think? And I rewrote the whole thing.
But it was easier for me to rewrite the whole thing based on what she'd already done than for me to start from scratch. So find use of my time. But anyway, speaking of use of our time, we've used a bunch of time. But I do want to back up since we started with this.
Is there anything else that we want to talk about just to give people a something to pay attention to, something something they can walk away with from where we started this conversation that took any number of terms, which is my favorite conversation about this whole thing of absorption versus ingestion and how they can pay attention to that in a way that will be useful? Yeah, I think two things that I've taken from all that tangents today is the first one is you don't have to, you get to. So whatever you choose to have meaning, then do that thing and do it well. And whatever that takes to find your flow of finding enjoyment, what you're doing, I think is huge.
The second part there is just starting to understand more than simply the more than the obvious tangibles like calories and calories out, start to tune in with your body and understand what's actually going on. So to give you one actual step from this, I think a really, really great place to start. So many people is take three or five deep breaths before a meal, right? And just get to that space where you're tuning into your actual state before eating.
Now, it comes from a very real like, where am I at? Am I the sympathetic response in that final flight or am I in parasympathetic or I'm calm, recent? And I just, and most people, I mean, they realize that they're mildly hyperbulating all day. It just allows them to have a slight check in of, okay, let's just slow down a little bit before I have this meal because there's so many people focusing on, you know, here's the fancy new smoothie, but they're eating it while they're running out the door or they're still on a whip, meaning whatever else, right?
So that's really where this conversation is. It's what you absorb, not what you eat. The matter is, is it just paying attention to how that body actually operates? And if we can do that, then what you're eating actually gets you is not the fancy herbs you're putting in the thing.
They're actually going to do something because you're allowing the body to operate as it should. And the body's very smart thing, but we're not allowing it to function how it should. So I think that whole conversation is just tuning in, creating meaning behind the things that really matter in your life and then creating those tangible results based on what you care about, what you're driving and then having that clarification of what health looks like, is it performance? Is it life span or health span?
The answer is never buying here. It's always going to be a procedure to each one of those. What are you truly wanting out of life and how can you make sure you buy as long as the right? Well, I can't thank you enough for finding a way to synopsize what we've talked about in the last hour in a few minutes because I couldn't have done that.
And that was brilliant. I'm going to have to bring you in for everything that I do because that was just splendid. I hope people appreciate that. So speaking of people appreciating that, if they want to find out more about what you're up to and how they can interact with you, be helped by you, et cetera, tell people how they can do that.
Yeah, and I've really enjoyed today as well. I think if you want to find out a little bit more and less, I think the easy place to start would just be Hollywood, In-Zid on Instagram or Facebook, can I be social platform, you'll find us there? You can just spell it out just because of your New York New Jersey accent. New Zealand accent.
So just go to Hollywood without the H, right? So O-L-A-Y, would In-Zid or Z, whatever, yeah, In-Zid would be the main one. I'll do it for Americans. So Hollywood without the H and Z.
And so... Yeah, In-Z. Yeah, that would be the place. Yeah.
Body research and main company, that would be as a whole lot of stuff on there. I think social would probably be the place to start. Perfect. Well, Ollie, this has been a total pleasure.
And we could do this for hours and maybe we'll do a part two at some point on a different topic that we won't talk about for an hour and more fun. And most importantly, of course, heal well, feel better, look forward to what happens when your wing is all working again and you're out having more fun and seeing which new thing you tackle next. Yeah, absolutely. Thanks so much for your time.
As soon as I saw the B-foot focus, I was all in. So I appreciate your time and thanks so much for asking your questions and your great conversation. Oh, no, no, no, my pleasure. So for everyone else, thank you also and just a reminder, head over to www.jointhemovementmovement.com.
Nothing to pay to join. There's no secret handshake. Just all the previous episodes, all the ways you can engage with us on social media and everywhere else. And again, give us a like and a thumbs up and share and five star wherever you can find it.
You know, the drill again, if you know what to do, you'll do it to help spread the word. And most importantly, or at least equally importantly, if you have any questions or comments or feedback anyone would recommend to be on the show. If you want to tell me that you think I have cranial reccore orientation syndrome, whatever it is, you can drop me an email at movemovme at jointhemovementmovement.com. And until then, just go out, have fun, and live life-feet first.