What would you do if you were in the middle of nowhere and needed to have some sort of protection for your little piggies and toesies and feetsies? Well, that's not quite what we're going to talk about, but we're also going to talk about that on today's episode. So the movement podcast, this is the podcast for people who want to know the truth about what it takes to have a happy, healthy, strong body starting with your feet because you know those things are your foundation. And we break down the prop again and the mythology sometimes is straight out lies you've been told about what it takes to have a happy, healthy, strong body again.
But more importantly, to what it takes to run or walk or hike or play or to yoga or crossfit or be out in the middle of nowhere and to do that enjoy being efficiently and effectively. And we call it the movement movement because we're creating a movement that involves you. It's really easy. I'll tell you how to say about natural movement, letting your body do what it's made to do.
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You know what the drill is simple. If you want part of the tribe to subscribe. So Sam, tell people who you are and why they might know you and what you're doing here. So my name is Sam Ander.
I was recently a participant of the Naked and Afraid 21 Day Survival Challenge. And in my day to day life, I'm a mental health support worker. And right now I'm here to talk about what I did to prepare and train my feet and prepare them for the onslaught that was the Naked and Afraid Challenge. Well, why don't you tell for people who haven't seen the show at all?
Tell them about what Naked and Afraid is. I mean, it's one of those titles that kind of says it all, but not quite. So hit people with what I was all about. So Naked and Afraid is essentially two individuals.
They're dropped after in a totally unfamiliar environment, absolutely naked, totally stripped bare with only the most essential of survival tools. And these two strangers have to enjoy this 21 day ordeal. They can only eat what they can capture or kill or firerage. They can only drink the water that they find.
And at the end of the 21 days, they have to still have the strength remaining to extract from the survival location and get to rescue. Let's start with naked and but with a few survival tools. What was the list of tools that you had at your hand? Well, it just so happens to have them right here.
So I took my knife. I've left nice and grubby. Hold on. That is very that is very much a cracker.
I've done the this is a knife. That's a hell of a knife. Oh, yeah. I'll crack it all then.
Do you would exactly do the pull this one out back on him and do the make the run. All right. So you had a knife. What else?
Anyway, so wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, did they give you like some parameters about what you could bring with you or did they supply things? I don't remember how it works. It's actually very interesting that you ask me that question, Stephen. So if you turn up with anything, they will supply you with something which might not be the most optimal tool.
I'll probably give you a knife for the fire starter, but it won't be one of your selection and obviously the quality might not be guaranteed. So obviously, especially if you bring your items from home, usually each team will have a part the knife for fire starter. And in our case about as well, but my partner had his personal item. And I know you've opened yourself, I believe if I'm not mistaken, is that you've been a hunter before?
No, actually, I'm a new archery. Yeah, I've never been a hunter as an archer. I've been a target shooter. And so something I adore, but it's something that I think about often that if I had to be somewhere, archery would be my best choice for being able to get food.
Well, it just so happens that I'm in exactly the same boat. It's no legal boat hunting in the UK. So it's only target true for myself. And it was from a partner, Lily, but until we ended up on our wild adventure and she managed to bag us a jackrabbit, which was fantastic.
And it was definitely the big score, the big protein that got us through to the end of the challenge. And I was so grateful to her and the rabbit for their efforts in their life. That's a very good thing to be thankful for the rabbit. Or too well, I think that one of the lessons that the challenges taught that taught me or reaffirmed to me is how precious every mortal of protein we consume is and what goes into producing it and retrieving it.
And I think a lot of people cringe at the mention of hunting. But if I knew what a lot of the creatures that end up in those little plastic cellophane packets of the supermarket went through to get there, I think they'll probably change their tune. And it's making actually think a lot more about that. It's a moment of suffering at the tip of the hunter's arrow, worse than the ones in entire existence in the cage.
Or they would rather go. Or even just your existence as a prey animal, where your entire life is basically running away from things that could eat you. So it is a shame that we are so disconnected from the production of the food that we definitely would change people's opinion. And many people think they would instantly become vegetarians.
I don't know that that's true. I think they would instantly have a different understanding of what food is, what it means, what it does. And to have an active role in providing your own food. I mean, that's a very rare thing for people these days.
Yeah. And I think it's something that we're becoming more and more disconnected from as a kind of a civilization, progresses and advances, which arguably is a good thing for the most part. But it still makes me think that maybe every individual should experience that or be given the opportunity to experience that. And as you say, I think there would be many people that I can't do this.
I would rather be vegan and fair play. I would totally understand that. I think there would be a lot of people that would respect their meat more and their protein and where it comes from going forward in their lives as a result of doing this challenge. And I think there would be those that would be very much interested in the quality, not just the quality of the meat itself, but the actual life that the animal has.
And I actually do believe those two things are very closely into time. I'm not saying that Jackrabbit who consumed was, if it was served up in a restaurant, it would be the most beautiful identity because it was grass-fed. It was lived its life in the open air. So maybe it tastes a little bit more delicious because I'd start for 10 days probably previous.
I mean, there's so many questions that happen at the very beginning of what you said. But I want to start to stick on this one. So how if it all has your diet changed since the challenge? Well, I think in my house, we've got down a lot more on our food waste.
And we now use a set meal build delivery service, which allows us to select a much wider variety of foods. But at the same time, it's all proportioned. So there's far less waste if it's all penny, things like what might be left on one of my son's plates, for example. But that's been one of the main, main switches we've done in my household.
And it's actually working out to save us money as well, which is fantastic. After capturing and eating a rabbit, do you find that you even have just whether you do it or not have a willingness to experiment with other kinds of food that you hadn't had before? Yeah, definitely. I mean, when we were out there, I mean, the first thing we ate was a Western Diamondback rattlesnake.
You can see on the episode I had my trepidation about sucking into it. But again, it was only the first night. So I was a particularly hungry, but I knew when you did that fuel, because I was going to be very hungry the next 72 hours. And I was actually surprised and delighted to have had delicious.
It was very good. Again, we had 25 crawdads, crawfish, and although they're a tiny muscle, again, delicious. And I do think that a lot of the foods to some of the people eat are making, if I do actually tend to be a delicacy somewhere. So yes, it's definitely given me the mindset to be more open-minded about trying new foods and never say no to anything.
And if not a delicacy somewhere, the exact opposite is something that people eat regularly that we're so that we don't eat that we think that there's something wrong with that. But it's something very, very common. I think about larva and ants and insects of various kinds that in many places, especially Southeast Asia, very, very common around here. People just can't wrap their brain around it.
Yeah. And again, as part of my research, there is actually very few insects that we assume and can't consume because during our evolutionary process, we ate a lot of insects. It was probably one of our staples. And on that note, I would like to say that grasshoppers are actually delicious.
A little frazzled chicken nuggets. You were always kind of as a drumstick. So, so backing up a giant step to where we started. So you had your knife.
What else did you have with you or what else were you given? So knife, pop, fire starter and boat. And that's it. You get a little satchel bag that has a mic pack in it and your microphone is embedded inside your necklace.
You're given a very simple map. And off you go. Where did they drop you? So we were in the Sabino summit region of New Mexico in the high desert.
It was actually one of the most beautiful places I've ever been in my life, actually. But it was very arid and it was a very brutal dry place. But the main thing that surprised me about it is how cold it got, especially as soon as the sun goes down, that's right. I was going to go.
Unimaginably. Yeah. I even alluded to it on the episode on the challenge. I can't believe I'm in the high desert.
And I was dithering wet in this horrible rainstorm freezing to death in the middle of the desert. I was just thinking, how am I going to explain this to my family? If I look at what we had with hypothermia from the desert. Well, and PS, having watched the episode, I'm asking a bunch of these questions for the people who haven't.
So once you realized something that those of us who were living at altitude, we're in Colorado, experience on a daily basis, that exact thing is the sun goes down and suddenly the temperature drops 23 degrees, although sometimes frankly, it'll just do that in the middle of the day one year. This is, I don't know, 10 years ago, I was living in an apartment right on Boulder Creek and I would swim in the creek almost every day in the summer. I got out of the creek. It's like 85 degrees.
And I bumped into a friend of mine who I hadn't talked in a little while in the parking lot of our apartment complex. And by the time we were done talking, which was maybe two hours later, it was snowing. So temperature changes are very common for those those at altitude. So what did you figure out about how to handle the both temperatures, both extremes?
Well, the main thing was there's very little time once arriving in the region that you're going to undertake the challenge to actually being deployed onto it. So there's no time for any real genuine acclimatization or anything such as the best you can do is keep on top of your hydration as best as you can. If it's hot, try and get the water to as cold as possible. When it goes cold at night, get the warm drink, stand throat and stay close to the fire.
My partner should construct a beautiful lung fire, which is actually normally used in like sub-artic regions. It's quite popular in Alaska to build like a long fire, like the lead to the body. We actually found that was very, very good at night. And we also buried the fire pit about a foot down.
So it heated the soil around us as well that we were lying on. And then it took the edge off the cold as well, I would say enough for us to be able to endure it. But still, it was quite uncomfortable. But we would have been in real trouble having had the long fire for the evenings and hot drinks.
I'm sure. And so obviously, one of the things that people, I'd say is in my world, in the natural movement world, I find it very entertaining. And by entertaining, I mean, annoying, where people will, I'll say something about being barefoot or being in shoes that don't have a whole bunch of cushioning. And people will jump to these ideas about what would happen if you were in bare feet or if you weren't using art support or motion control or whatever, that are situations that never happen.
I mean, here's the simplest one. My favorite one is I talk about going barefoot and go, what if you step and dodge it? I go, when's the last time you did that? I don't know, 20 years ago.
I say, well, then why are you going to start doing it now if you take off your shoes? And so the idea of being in the desert, being dropped off without footwear is one of those things where people have a lot of ideas about how you want to be able to survive it from that alone. So talk about your feet and footwear. So in the run up to the challenge, a new couple of months before I was going, you know, so I had time to prepare.
And the first thing, and I'll not just say this because I'm on your podcast, but I've won zero for some time. Actually, I remember seeing a video about Mac Graham, who talked about zero genesis. So obviously he does a low barefoot and sandal running in Karachi, and talking about the tactility and being able to usually feet as an extra sensory apparatus, that kind of thing. And that's my first pair with Hannah, because I was a little bit anxious about having all my toes exposed and everything.
So I liked the Hannah because they had that nice kind of suede cover and that kind of train a look and all those to destruction. But obviously, because I knew I was going on the challenge, I went for the genesis and purchased a pair of these simply because they're the simplest design, literally just enough to cover my feet. And also, I could study them in case I needed to make some. So Mac Graham, I'm not getting into a copywriter.
No, no, no, it's my favorite thing. I love it when I meet people who say I followed your instructions online, but I never bought anything from you. It's like, perfect. That's why I put everything online.
I want people to have the experience. And Matt Graham, for people who don't know, Matt was on a show called Dual Survivor. And Matt replaced a guy named Cody Lundin and Cody on one episode made a pair of orachi sandals. Now, he didn't do the lacing quite right, but they still worked for him.
And this shouldn't be surprising because this is basically what humans have done since the beginning of humans. So, you know, that Genesis sandal, it's something to protect your foot, something to hold it on your foot. That's really all you need, except for when you're in a place where a little bit of insulation can come in handy. Well, to be honest, they were the perfect shoe, if we're going to call them that to train my feet because obviously they're still very comfortable, but they have that slightly abrasive surface.
And if I'm not mistaken, it's like, it's kind of like I'm mentally like an all-star-ane slayer rubber. So obviously, it's very hard wearing and just in enough friction on the skin at the bottom of my feet to help generate those, those, you know, that's naked and afraid gold, those canals, just hard on my feet. So I'm ready for what was coming. But there's a lot more to it than that.
I think it's not just the fact that it was preparing the surface, the epidermis on my feet. I think it's also the nerve endings as well, as you allude to, because they're so incredibly thin, you can feel every single temple or stoney step on. Not necessarily with any discomfort, but you know it's there and it's giving all those nerves a little snippet of what they're going to experience now. Again, I'm not a doctor, but also what I will say is I am convinced that had I undertaken the challenge without wearing these in the run-up, I think it would have been a much more brutal experience for my feet.
It would have been quite a shock for them to go into that environment, because there was a lot of cacti, there was a lot of sharp stones, there was a lot of nasty pebbles, there was a lot of forms. Now, I won't lie, I think within the first five days of being totally barefoot in the challenge, my feet hard and more than in a month of wearing the Genesis that being said, every minute wearing this pair of shoes definitely prepared my feet for that challenge, got the patina on them that they needed to be able to stride out there. So I'm very grateful for saving. Oh my gosh, thank you.
Well, you know, people have a mistaken idea about the purpose of footwear or being barefoot. So like calluses are not necessary, but what does happen is when you're using your feet, especially on surfaces that are challenging, you do the skin thickens a little bit, but to your point, you become very sensitive to what you're stepping on and your reflex arc and your brain get very good at making these micro adjustments to allow you to walk on things better or respond to things and step off of things more quickly if it's something unpleasant. I mean, I remember when I first started on barefoot, there were things in my driveway that I couldn't step on and a year later, I'm walking on them without a problem. It's not because I got numb quite the opposite.
It's because my feet became more flexible. I was stepping in a way where I wasn't just over waiting, just putting on my weight on one foot before I knew what I was stepping on. And I would argue that, but I have no proof for this, but it feels like my reflex arc improved as well, that I was just reflexively stepping off of things that were unpleasant more quickly than just kind of committing to that step and crossing my fingers. So there's definitely that component.
What else did you discover though, once you were like barefoot barefoot, which is definitely a different experience and in your situation, even more so? At first, it is quite an experience. You know, there's walking barefoot at home, there's going barefoot on the beach. There's maybe slipping your shoes off of a barefoot walk here and there.
But again, you're psychologically going to prepare that. You're going to think about the place where you're going to slip your shoes off even if you're on your hike. It's not going to be on the grass, obviously that's not an option out there. So it is, I mean, obviously, it's the whole thing is a lot to get used to.
I mean, I'm not really a walking-raided kind of guy. Well, let me interject. I am a walking-around naked kind of guy, but only in the confines of that house after that. Yes, in your house.
Yeah. But yeah, I mean, one of the where it was pretty much flat from her eyes and her eyes and her feet, but naked was quite a thing. And then obviously stepping off, I mean, you thinking about the cameras, you're thinking about everything. And then all of a sudden, one of my peers is another survivor.
He said, it's the moment that first, cactus needle pierces you flesh, the first thorn, the first sharp rock, everything suddenly very real. And that was, I suppose, what my feet told me about the challenge. Very quickly, how much trouble I was eating. I was concerned about the heat on the ground as well.
And I'm going to blister up and what have you. And actually, again, I think my feet performed very well. Now, whether that's the preparation I did in these beforehand, I don't know. Perhaps the circulation being improved was removing the heat from the pad of my foot more efficiently.
I don't know. But yeah, very quickly, my feet became acclimatised. And I would say there was maybe five or six cagens throughout the challenge, where as you say, I was probing correctly with my feet, I was distracted on other things and I tried on a cactus or stubbed a table or something like that. That being said, nothing significant out there, that no thorns are going to pull out.
And to be honest, out of all my body, my feet performed fantastically. I was very impressed with them out there, actually, aside from a few bumps, scrapes and stubs, all went well with them. And I also think as well, with the zero elevation footwear, it adjusts the musculature, the muscle structure in your legs. So obviously, if you're in normal training, your heels are quite high up and your muscles are sat differently.
So I actually think I got into that kind of, there was no general serious discomfort or anything as my body adjusted. It's gait to be barefoot. So again, that's definitely reduced the shock to my system. And it was one less thing for me to worry about, to focus on more important things, like the food, the shelter.
Yeah, the little things. You mentioned circulation, you mentioned the circulation possibly being a part of it. This is something that I hope someday somebody studies, because I'm also convinced that your circulation does change. You develop more capillaries in the social media when you start spending more time barefoot.
I mean, my first, when we started the company, it was in November, and I was just kind of curious, like, how long would it be that I'd be okay wearing sandals or going barefoot? And the next thing I knew it was spring. And over time, it seems like the capillaries, my feet has changed, because when I'm out and it's called, my hands and my face may really cold, but my feet typically feel fine. And someday, I hope someone actually does a study on how you do acclimatize.
I'm clearly humans do that, because we live in all different environments. But to see that happening sort of in real time, that almost evolutionary process would be really, really cool to study, I think. Yes, I've been kind to agree that would be quite fascinating to find out what is it, you know, the cold didn't seem to bite my toes as much until I've lost quite a significant amount of weight. It's definitely something going on.
I'd also be intrigued to know how quickly does the process reverse, if at all, if you stop and go back to... That's interesting. I wonder if it's sort of like building muscle. It takes quite a bit of effort to build it, but once you have it maintaining it, it's very simple.
So you have to lift, let's tell it three or four times a week to generate enough stimulus to build muscle. But once you have it, you can lift once a week, and that's enough of the signal in your body to hold onto it. So I wonder if there's a similar effect to that. I would think that there would be, because the idea that when you've made any sort of adaptation, that it would revert quickly seems a little non-optimal.
If you're going to make that change, part of your body going, eh, this could stay this way or it could get worse. I think my theory on it would be, it would just seem like a sofa affecting microcosm, a fancy pair of trainers with all the squeegee pads in it is what just a really comfy cage for our traitors for our feet. And that's nice, but at some stage, you have to get off the cage and actually, I don't know what you could work out maps for your feet maybe, give them that exercise to give them that experience. And I hope no one wants you to think, I don't want to give my feet a workout.
It's the best thing you can possibly do. There's no go back to me now. I'm not sure. You know, your feet are your foundation.
This is screaming obvious. And people don't realize that their feet have become weak, except for the fact that they somehow think that they need all this support and all this cushioning, all this padding, which just makes no sense. But part of it is also the industry convincing people that their feet are fundamentally flawed and therefore you need something. So but anyway, be that as it may.
Now, let me jump on to a totally different thing. Speaking as one reality person to another, although our experience was like 45 minutes in Shark Tank versus 21 days in the high desert of New Mexico, what can you, and I say this knowing there's something where you may be legally bound to not answer this question, what can you tell us about the difference between reality TV and reality? In other words, what happened that we didn't see on camera? The main thing to remember is actually what happens is generally, I can only speak for our experience as opposed to the experience of others because I wasn't there, but you know, is the how everything becomes condensed and it kind of creates a narrative, which you might not have perceived so much when we were out there.
Like I knew that certain things like I got, as we was cleaning the snake, it erupted its bowels all over me. Like the moment it happened, you can see me look at the cameras as if to go, well, that's going to be on telly, you know, the same moment. But then there's other things that, you know, I didn't even, you would never even contemplate that they would be able to get in. But the main thing to remember is every hour we were out there on a mean average basis that the audience is going to see five minutes between two and five minutes of each hour.
So obviously, everything becomes much more compressed, much more caricature, being said, what you see on the screen is a fair representation of what happened in the order that it happened. And so I can't speak for any other reality show, but also I can say about making them afraid is that it's the real thing I've ever experienced. It's almost like there's a disconnect between doing the challenge, which my mind's kind of prepared for it and approached it like I'm going to participate in my favourite sport. It's not an endurance sport that's over distance, it's an endurance sport that's over time, which is an interesting take on an athletic feat if you want to call it that.
And because it's a test of your mind and your metabolism, and you know, how you're going to expend that currency of body fat muscle or energy, whatever you have, to best effect. But I really do think that what happened there is the episode is a fair reflection of that, which to be honest, when I got there at Ferris, you're thinking, oh, is there really going to be, you know, hotels or what's this going to be like, you get there and it's like, they say like, you're here, we'll see you here in 21 days. And it's, it all gets very, very real, very quickly. Tell me about this experience.
You've had what was the shot tag? Yeah, yeah. Well, ours was much easier because we were in the tank for about 40, 40, 45 minutes. But what you see on camera is actually very different than what actually happened for real.
So, because we have, you know, we have 45 minutes gets cut down to about basically seven or eight minutes really. And we were very clear about what we did or didn't want the kind of deal we were willing to make. So whenever one of the sharks said, I'm out and they cut to us going, what? You know, we pretty much didn't do that because we didn't care.
We were just going to go on to the next one. And so what you see is not the order in which things happen. The show makes it look like it's a normal conversation about your business, but it is far from a normal conversation. The sharks are always trying to like say something where they gotcha.
And, and so, and they're often not paying very much attention to you. They're in their own private Idaho, just trying to figure out how they can make good television about them. And so they're coming up with one liners that they think are going to make it on the preview. And it's one of the sharks will ask you five questions.
And then a minute later, another one will ask you 10 questions. And if you switch, the first one gets mad and if you don't switch, the second one gets mad. And of course, Barbara's line, her opening line was, I hated you from the moment you walked out here. And I just laughed.
Good. What are you going to say? So, but what I can tell you about Shark Tank, and this is behind the scenes thing, is when we walked out of there, I just turned to Lane. I said, well, that's not what we expected.
And I could think of, I mean, I have a master's degree in film. I could think of a million different ways of editing that to make us look like complete idiots, if they cut out the way they could. And so we talked to our producers and mentioned that. And they said, no, no, we don't want anyone to look bad.
If, you know, we're a Disney owned network, we want people to want to be on the show. If someone looks bad, it was way worse in real life. And I had two stories that echo that. One is someone that we know who was on the show.
She was so upset about how badly it went that she almost divorced her husband over it because he decided not to be on the show with her. So she felt that she just, you know, he threw her out to the lions. When the show aired, it looked pretty good because she's a smart, funny, attractive woman, you know, and there are a couple things that she answered a question badly, but mostly look good. I have another friend who likes to claim that they gave him a really bad edit and make him look like a complete ass.
And I have said to him, I know you're pretty well. Talked about a really good edit. I like that. I like that.
But he's not fit for human consumption. And by the way, that people who might be listening, there's like four people who might think I'm talking about them, you're probably all wrong. But anyway, so that's a difference. So for us, some of those people are the best people.
Great television, great television. So, so but backing up like for us, you know, people said to us, Hey, you should be on Shark Tank after we'd started our business and we looked into it. Wow, we should. What was it that made you want to be on the show on naked and afraid?
And what was the process of auditioning, et cetera, until you got on the show? That's a very good question, so I've actually been a fan of the show since the beginning. I've always liked survival shows. I mean, we got to talking about Mac Ray.
I'm obviously watched Joel and follow him quite closely on Facebook, which is how I first got introduced to zeros. But yeah, I've remembered watching EJ Snyder stride out into the Savannah, it didn't do the pilot. And I was just, what is this? This is the wildest thing I've ever seen in my life.
This is absolutely crazy. Who'd watch this? Oh, yeah, me. I was just hooked from the note from as soon as it started.
And I was pasting casually on Facebook, because not many people watch it in the UK. It's like, there's anyone watching the show. Does anyone else like to naked and afraid? And I got invited to join a private fan group.
And we've only got about 14,000 members, but most of the cast are in there as well, folks that have been on the show. And I've got to interact with all the cast and all the legends that have done like, you know, a dozen challenges each. And it was amazing and a great community full of characters and what have you. And I started applying for the show to do a challenge.
You know, several times we've made these levels of effort. And it just so happened that my love and interest for the show. I'm a moderator for this fan group now. You know, I share some of their interview cast.
We range live. So my love of the show. And I suppose the things that have happened in my life in the run up to it, you know, everything from the whole to interest or scales and army connects and I had a brief career in the military as well. All kind of culminated in I suppose, if anyone can be qualified to give me a shot of maybe getting to the end.
And it all came together. And last February, I was contacted. I thought it was wind up at first. I thought it was some kind of scam, because obviously I do stuff with the moderator.
And I ended up searching for the person that emailed me and I was like, oh my goodness, they're in the fan group. It's real. And it went from four years of absolutely nothing happening to everything happening inside of a week. You get an EJ Snider.
He's one of the best great survival lists in the world. Brings you up. And I've met him before. And obviously it's like my background.
He's like, you know, I'm just I'm just bringing you up to do your survival rating. This is just a formality at this stage. And I was like, oh my God, terrifying. And lo and behold by the autumn, there I was out in New Mexico, you know, up to my waist in snake poop and running around with my Austrian survival goddess and the way we went.
So you're up to your butt and snake poop. What were you doing about human poop? That's actually a good question now. I've been listening to the podcast and as I've been a fan of the show for a very long time, apparently there's two camps in the whole crew group.
So there's some folks that apparently will just barely dig a cat's spray, but just right next to the shelter now, I'm sorry, but I would be moving house if my partner doesn't know myself. Thankfully, we were both stuff how many calories it takes half a mile, nice peaceful spot, birds tweeting, lots of deep Zen breathing and day 17, all the magic happens, covered it with some rocks and had a lovely bathe in one of the little balls and went about by day. I can't even think of how to wrap this up because we can keep doing this all day long. Oh, you can have one last question because you kind of referenced it.
What changed with your body from day one to day 21 and then what changed after you got home? That's actually a very good question and the answer is a lot. Some things quite significant, some things more subtle. So obviously my weight, my body mass challenge and again, while we're on the subject to feet and gait and walking, I actually think that if you've seen the episode, I did put on as much weight as I safely could to participate and used to buy day 10.
It's just gone. And so obviously, as the challenge progresses, that the difference in the mechanics of your body, I mean, imagine being a bipedal robot that's mass changes throughout the process. So it actually helps in a sense because as you said, as you alluded to earlier on, you can put in less pressure because there's less mass in your day, but your gait has to change and weight shifts. And again, when your body's switched to four ketosis and it really is, it's not just your thought.
It's also the function of your body. So we'd be having, you and I were out there, Stephen, we'd be having this conversation, but it would take three times longer. But we wouldn't know that because subjectively, brain's clock speed will have slowed down that our time is subjectively still feeling the same. But after day five, the day's just fly back.
And it's because your subjective time, again, I'm not a neuroscientist, but I think that because of the ketosis, your thoughts slowed down, still the same, if anything, a little bit clearer, much more slow, much more measured. And I think even once you're back to the land of carbs and processed sugar, you can still actually maintain a degree of that. I want to call it like a zen state. I found it actually quite euphoric.
But my body physically, I felt the lack of protein around day 15, 16, and I felt my joints beginning to become quite clicky because obviously we saw a lot of our protein in liquid in our joints. So once that's gone, oh, I felt that my body felt like it was 80 years old. But just to wrap up what you asked me when I got back after three or four meals after about a week of being home, some good food, good food, a good variety of food, and loads of protein. In my wife's home, she said, I looked like I was 21 again.
Effectively, it'd been an impressive fast and cleanse. And I got back and obviously I'd looked extremely emaciated when I got out, but once I traded and a couple of good meals down there, I looked in the best shape. I've looked for years, for years. So it's not all negative.
So you need to combine Nick and afraid and the biggest loser and you've got something. It's funny you mentioned thus long down in time changing. I just read about the woman who, as an experiment, they had her underground for 600 days. And when they said, all right, time to come out, she was stunned.
She thought like 150, maybe 160 days had passed. She had no idea that was that long. She also said she would happily stay and never left because it was just so pleasant for her. She had no contact with the outside world other than they would give her food, they would take out her waste and trash.
And I don't know how she got books and things didn't yet and whatnot. She had very few activities. But just the idea that you would be that disconnected from time and again, now she's underground. So there's no sun, there's no night.
But to be four times, one quarter of the way off or whatever, 70% off about how much time has passed is almost inconceivable. So your story is fascinating because you still had days and nights, but still the feeling of time moving differently is really intriguing. Yeah, I think our brains can do a lot of things. And our bodies, well, for me, I'm not a jute, it's all one thing for me.
I think our brains and bodies can do a lot of things. And I mean, to summarize heavily once once your ass knows, your brain's not quitting. It will adapt. It will figure something out.
It will build a house inside its head or subjectively slow time or whatever it needs to do to get by. You know, it didn't, I didn't experience it. But I know when I was in the forces, actually, it gets to do a horrible exercise where you have to dig trenches like it's world all one and there's no all manually. I remember some of my colleagues, some of my comrades, you know, it's hallucinating just from the shearing exhaustion a bit.
But no one was out of the two or three people that did. They weren't unpleasant. They were all very amusing things, you know, that they described experiencing. And I think again, it's a case of once your body knows your brain's not quitting, it will do whatever it has to get you by.
And if that's manifesting the giant beaver, helping you dig your trench, which is what my colleague reported, you know, I just like the idea that it's unusual that not only is it a beaver, but it's a giant beaver. I think that is, that's like, yeah, of course, yeah, when we discussed it afterwards, he said, well, I rephired in the most after the experience and after we'd all had a good feed and a good sleep was, he found it like it was like when you're in a dream and the most wild thing can happen and it'll put it seems perfect in all the time. All right, I'll do this. Oh, goodness.
But yeah, it's, I've had a great time chatting to you. And if you've got anything else, one last question that occurs to me. So now that you've had that experience, is there, does it inspire you to do anything next, whether it's doing something more or something different or never again? What's, you know, what's the app now?
Because I got to tell you from this is a weird version for us in Shark Tank. We were in season four, I think maybe by season five, beginning season six, someone in our private Facebook group for Shark Tank alumni, asked how many of you still watch the show? And the answer was nobody. So because we know how the sausage is made and we know the back story, et cetera.
So for you, after being into survivalist things and then having this experience, what if anything is next? Again, that was a great question. So now we're into the territory where I can't talk too much. But I'm definitely well up for another challenge.
I'd go tomorrow if I was called upon. And I've decided to adopt an always and never policy, which I think is what they actually do with nuclear weapons, but I think it works with making them afraid challenges as well. Always, always be ready to go at the moment's notice, but to never assume that I will be and that way can keep my humility. I can maintain humility and not let you take over, but at the same time, have the sense to make sure that my body's tuned and whatever item I might take is prepared.
And I think that's just a sensible way to move forward. And obviously that my feet are hardened, well equipped and trained, ready for whatever they may face next in the future. Hey, I love that. And be when you say that, it gave me I kind of got chills because I barely mentioned, I think on the podcast, I had a what we affectionately refer to as a medical situation, where it actually is still kind of going on.
But for a period of time, for about four weeks, there was definite concern that I would have a very short amount of time to live. And Oh my goodness, Steven. Oh no, it was the greatest because it was sort of always a never. So it's a similar thing of like, I'm not expecting I'm gonna die at any moment, but I'm simultaneously expecting that I could die at any moment.
And it is the greatest way to live that I've ever experienced. Now, I know I'm not there 24 seven, there's times where someone's doing 10 miles an hour under the speed limit in front of me, not happy about that. When I'm walking the dog and it's pouring rain, I'm not so happy about that. When people I don't like it when people get in front of me like in my way, going to airports, I want to go quickly, you know, people in my way bothers me still.
But even through that, there's an undercurrent that has changed that it's kind of ironic. My dad two weeks before he died made a comment to me, he said, I don't feel like I had died at any moment. And I said, Oh, I do every day, but that was more conceptual. And now it's having had this experience.
It's more real. And I imagine there's a similar thing for you. It's like, for always a never, that's a fine concept. Now you've lived it and it's probably more visceral, more tangible.
The ultimate truth of our existence is, you know, it's going to end at some point, unfortunately. And it's probably going to stink a bit. You know, and the only question is, you know, what you're going to do in the meantime. But I mean, one thing I will say is I guarantee that every meal you have from now on, since you're scared, you know, every breath every bowl of cereal you eat in the morning will taste better than the one that was the day before.
It is the biggest thing that's changed for me, exactly that. Every meal I I'm so appreciative of it. Even if it's, you know, mediocre, it just makes me crazily happy. And more than ever did, I'm always been sort of a sucker for good food.
But but every meal is totally, totally delightful. As is, and this is going to sound like that. But as is every evening when I'm sitting on the couch with my wife and our dog watching television, it's like, I think if I knew that I was going to die tomorrow, what would I want to do tonight? Sit on the couch with Lena and Paolo and watch a good movie.
It's all I need. And you know what? That's wonderful. And would it be so bad?
You know, it's going to happen at some point and on the sofa with my wife and my dog watching a movie sounds good to me. Sam, if people want to find out more about what you're up to or they want to see the show or anything else by getting in touch with you or whatever you can think of, what can you tell people about how to do any of those things to find out more, get in touch, etc, etc. So you can check out Naked and Afraid. It's always available.
The whole catalog is on the Discovery Plus app. I believe you get a small free trial and it's a very minimal subscription charge. And there's tons of great content on there. Obviously, I was season nine slash 15 episode one.
Welcome to America. Also, as on Discovery Channel regularly now I'm assuming with three runs, I'm best found on Facebook. Sam, as you can't miss me. And the fan group that I'm on drag for is fans of Naked and Afraid and Excel.
You search on Facebook, you'll find us, tell them you want to join, answer the questions, tell them your favorite survivalists. Sam, I'm a little bit weird. And so when people are looking up on Facebook, Sam is a MOU ZER. So that's correct.
Yes. So this has been an absolute pleasure. I don't know to say beyond that. It's wonderful here what you went through, what you learned, what you discovered.
I hope people get inspired in some ways. At the very least, you know, try a grasshopper. You never know. That's a secret.
It's been a pleasure talking to you. And in regards to that last thing that you said, you know, don't worry about things that you can't control, but you see that kind of guy is really good at that. Oh, except again, when there's people in my way in front of me, that one, I don't worry about it. But I was, I did have a fantasy that that wouldn't bother me any longer.
That's still there. That's that one. So you know what, but I'm not second guessing it. I'm not making it a problem that it's still something that annoys me.
It's just the way it is. And maybe it'll go away, maybe not, but I don't really care. And that's that's a difference. So it's unpleasant, but it's not suffering.
It's the best way I can say it. Anyway, on that on that weird note, for everyone else, thank you so much for being on this episode or listening to this episode. A reminder go to www.jointhemovementmovement.com find all the previous episodes, all the ways you can interact with us. And if you have any recommendations, anybody you want to think should be on the show, any comments, any questions, any criticism, any any wonderful things, whatever it is, like this matter, you can drop me an email, move m-o-v-e-e-at Join the movement movement.com.
But most importantly, until next time, go out, have fun and live life. Be first.