Episode #2 - Joel Gage

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Hi everyone. Thanks for listening. Thanks for downloading our second episode of the Upskill Masterclass. My name is Ralph Tucker.

Today we'll be chatting about the importance of innovation in today's business environment. Innovation is a key feature in Upskill's management and leadership courses. So let's talk about it in greater detail. We welcome the founder of Upskill, Joel Gates, Joel.

Thanks for chatting us on the Upskill Masterclass. Hi Ralph. Thanks for having me. Matt, not a problem.

Innovation. What does it mean to you in terms of how it fits with Upskill as a business? Okay. I've been in the broad term and it's used a lot in the industry at the moment, across many industries.

To me, I was thinking I bring it back to when we first started the business that innovation was our tagline. So it was Upskill, innovation in education. We knew that we needed to innovate or be in front of the game as far as technology, as far as new ways of doing things to be successful. More recently we've had a brand alignment and it's moved from innovation education to qualify for tomorrow.

But we still live and breathe that innovation inside Upskill. Innovation to me is improvement, is about doing things better or doing things different than what others have done in the past. So not so much inventing but more improving, more finding different applications, more finding different ways that we can improve what we do and then as a result, get in front of the game. That's probably the key thing is that education in particular is a field that the landscape is constantly changing.

So trying to come up with fresh ideas and new concepts and different things around that, it's obviously a key component for Upskill. You and I are probably from a similar era. But I just remember the smell of the ink when I had to go down and get the overhead trends. The overhead projector, overhead projector, and you had to go and get your own, you know, you transfer and put your own piece of paper to put up there on the board and everyone copied their notes from there.

Boy, we've come a long way since then. Internet wasn't around when we went to school. So to come from in such a short amount of time to where we are now, that the children these days are in such a different environment, such a different place to where we were, that it's just trying to figure out what the tools are and then how to utilise that technology I suppose within the education space. And adapting and being willing to adapt to new scenarios and take on new technology all the time, it's for the educational field, it must be something that you've always got to keep your eye on what's next rather than what's behind you.

Keeping ahead of the game is critical. And also making the market aware that your head of the game is just as critical. So if you're doing stuff, you know, if you're innovating and you're using technology above and beyond what those are in the market, then it's really sharing that with the audience and saying that that's where we're focused and we're focused on providing, I suppose, reinvestment from Upskill back into building ongoing innovation and ongoing improvements for the sake of growth and long-term growth. So where he, innovation is our mantra.

We're big one here internally in Upskill. We have an innovation team, which anyone from the janitor to the CEO can put forward of innovation or new business ideas and that gets put out to the wider team and the team can then dissect that and figure out, you know, is there a business case and then how do we commercialise it. So the entire company from Reception all the way through to the top is used all the time and that is what can we be doing, what I wish you and these are in the market. And it's not isolated to one or two people to think of that.

It's creating an environment for people to be able to speak, make mistakes and come up with ideas that they aren't laughed at, but they're outside the square. Online learning, it's obviously a huge part of what you do. You think about, as you mentioned before, going back to your school days or even people that attended university and so forth many years ago, you're required to be in class at a certain time to hear a certain lecture or to get your skills. Now, if you want to further your education, you can do that at any stage.

I mean, it's not just about learning at a certain time. It's learning on your terms rather than learning to a certain structure. And I guess that's an important way. If people want to better themselves or improve their overall qualifications, they can do so whenever they want.

We're not putting together a one-slide speech or model. It's very much tailored to the individual and with the systems that we've put in place and the technology we've put in place, we're able to do that without a huge amount of intensive resources. So we can use technology. We've got a large student support team and a large customer support team, but it's a technology that allows us to really focus on giving each and every one of our students that tailored learning approach.

The online access part of the business, as you mentioned just there, if it is as empowering as you say, how does it translate to innovation? The two sides to that. One is innovation for the students. So they're continually innovating how they learn, where they find their answers, how they find their answers.

But for a business, we're trying to stay here the game. So we're trying to find content that's enriching, that's engaging, and we're trying to find different ways of structuring the content so people can access just in time learning as well as the structured learning environment. So it's about investing again. We're reinvesting back in for quality content and reinvesting back in for innovative ways.

It's reaching people where they want to be reached or where they are. Yeah. And that's a good point. We're successful and we're more successful than others in the industry.

There's a shift coming from, so it's coming back to when we went to school. It was thought that education was a pure, non-for-profit business. These days, for us to be able to innovate, we need to make a profit. For us to be able to innovate or for us to be able to grow our business, we need to be successful.

So it really comes back to marketing. It comes back to being able to communicate to that audience, that innovative product, how we do things targeting that audience who really wants to hear about what we have to offer, using the technology to be able to market our product and market the following case studies that arise from that. So when we've got success stories, we've got some great success stories now with people that we've affected in a positive way and affected their businesses in a positive way. So it's marketing that is just as important part of innovation than the actual product enhancement development.

If we could invest all of our money on product development enhancement, but unless we communicate that out to the audience, we might be able to further invest because we might be selling products. So we've got to really focus on aligning what we're building to the audience that want to buy. Do you find that there's more of an acceptance for people to embrace and you learning culture and you learning experience and that's why you've managed to develop so many success stories because people are willing to try new things. They're willing to, I guess, look at the age that we live in in terms of iPhones and different technology that have really enriched our lives.

I guess you can sort of draw some parallel to that in terms of education and learning. It's exciting. It's scary. It's a few things that we'll throw into one at the moment.

We don't know where the technology is going. We can put out the crystal ball and the next piece of technology we might be able to guess, but where it's going, the marketplace, I mean, you've got places like you, you've got places like Airbnb, which is a global marketplace, which allows people to really create that interface to buy and sell to the market. That type of market, I think, is going to be a lot more of that in the market. I think it's still a huge place for aligned qualifications.

So whilst there's learning, just in time learning, but then there's your actual qualification aligned to receiving nationally accredited qualifications. So I think there's always going to be a place for that that is upskilling and it's bringing our country into the next stage. But I think that that's also going to be the element of being able to tap into just in time learning. So when you need something, being able to source the world expert and being able to get that information at the click of a mouse.

And upskilling point of view, I mean, how has the business embraced and supported innovation in its day to day operations? I was going to start it in my bedroom with myself sitting down, thought I had a good idea and thought that the idea was good enough to be able to try and push out and build a business off the back of. So as innovation from us started, we started the business by using the facts and it was a three page facts. And when we first rang up to build the facts to send out, we got laughed off the phone.

There's no way you could send a three page facts. No one would ever use. No one would even read it. And so we took a risk in the first stage, I using the facts, but using a three page facts and probably investing nearly all of our budget and marketing budget in doing so.

Whilst there was email whilst there was other marketing at the beginning, facts was 90% of our business and marketing. Moving forward today, we don't send facts anymore. We use technology. We use the smarts to be able to do the email, to be able to do digital marketing.

And so from a marketing perspective, I've started off trying to innovate and continually trying to innovate. Products and qualifications wise, we're continually innovating. We invest a significant amount of money back into making sure our product has got some governance, quality control. But we're continually building new qualifications and we're continually investing in building content.

By doing that, we're trying to make sure that we've got this quality product. The only way we can ensure that is by investing in building it ourselves because the market doesn't have a vast array of catalog of all the content available. So we found that by building our own content, investing in doing that, investing in our people, we're starting to really get some benefits from building content and building it inside our own learning management system and therefore building our offering in our scope. I mentioned your staff there.

The first one, the first thing you notice when you come to Upskilled is that not everyone's walking around in a suit and tie and everything like that. It's more relaxed. I guess you could call it a business innovation in that you're making sure that your staff are relaxed at work and they're comfortable to be here. Do you think that's a key factor in changing the way people are around work?

They don't feel like they're encumbered by, they need to adhere to a dress code or anything like that. Just come as you are and then you might get the most creative benefits from that. Yeah, and that's been, I suppose, one of my biggest contributions to the business. It's been making sure that we find the right people and then making sure those people fit into their culture and the culture is the family culture, the culture is the casual culture.

But the culture is also, we need to work hard to be able to get the nice things that we like to. So, upscare we go away for a company trip once a year and that's the stuff going away to that company trip and it's just just having fun. Every quarter, we go on a company outing where it could be at the race day or it could be where the partners get to come along and so it's another event that we all get to go out to. Once a month, the whole company goes out for dinner.

Once a Friday, the whole company stays for drinks. There's a social element to the staff. There's a saying inside, if you turn up in a suit, the first thing that will happen is someone will say, how did you job interview go? So we pride ourselves on the casual element but we also have created a team that if you were to slacken off or if you were to look to those around you to carry your load, the culture has been created that you're letting the team do.

So whilst we have fun, whilst there's no such rules, whilst you can turn up when you need to turn up, if you take advantage of that, you're letting down the others in the group. So there's very much a family culture that's not up to one person to discipline. It's not up to the top of the organization to pull someone aside. It's up to their neighbor or their colleague to say, I think you've been the pub long after day or thing.

So there's that element of being able to... Just looking out for you. Also, when someone's taken too much or not realizing what actually happened or the freedom they actually have, they get reminded of their peers. You get out of the lift and it's a pool table.

There's no... Everyone's playing pool. It's about being out of the business wherever you are in the building. There's the sales guys are walking around with wireless headsets.

So they're not stuck to the phone. So there's guys walking around talking to walls. There's guys talking out, you're walking around the corner and there's a guy's facing. So it's not like a 10, 15, I have to take a break or there's no set structure or guidelines or rules.

But by doing that, you're giving people enough right to do what you need them to do within certain parameters. So one of the key aspects and a great testament to the culture that you've actually built here is the fact that once people are employed by upskill, there's a low staff turnover rate. So is that success in your mind, in the culture that you've created, that you want people to come in and embrace what they're doing, have fun doing it and also achieve goals? We don't have a very big train rate whatsoever.

And that is something that I pride myself on and then the other guys pride themselves on. It's a big thing if someone wants to move on. We've only had a few occasions where we've asked someone to move on. It hasn't been a good cultural fit and again, the team certainly identified that early.

But when you come in here, we're here for you when you need it. So it's not just about work, it's about work life. If you've got problems at home, if you've got problems outside here. So we pride ourselves on creating that environment.

But what we also expect in return is that additional effort or that additional level of responsibility back to the company. We're going to give you the freedom to play pool when you want. And I've launched the pub when you want. You can see your family when you want.

Do all those things when you want. When it comes time to really get in and work as a team to get the results that the company needs to keep delivering those things, we expect that you're all there and we expect that you there is a group. And it works. It really does, as I said, it's just that I think it's their family culture, that it's not about one person watching.

It's every single person watching each other. Not to try and catch each other out, but to try and improve what we do and how we grow. Because everyone's has that sense of responsibility and everyone has that sense of reward. Once we succeed, the trick away is better.

The quarterly, the quarterly company events is better. And based on what you just said there in your experience at looking at the growth of upskill over the years, you definitely suggest that the key elements that create the business culture also supports innovation and also getting to that point where you ultimately want to succeed for each other. Yeah, I mean, as I said, going back to the seven years ago, I mean, if we knew what we knew now, we probably could have created that culture earlier. We certainly started on the day one trying to try and do what we wanted to create.

But I think that it's the culture and the way the company's been set up for innovation is certainly paying dividends. And it's certainly allowing us to take advantage of opportunities at the moment. We've got credibility in the market. We've got some great success stories.

So innovation inside the business is providing success. It's enhancing culture. And I think fundamentally that if you sit around doing the same thing every day and you're not trying to think forward or you're not trying to be innovative or you're not trying to think of a new way of doing things or a new business or a new product, you know, you get stale. So by involving the company to be part of what's the next big thing or what's the next idea or how could we do that or what's what's, I mean, even in the business name I did, we put it out here and put a name forward, you know, vote for the name continually involving the company from the bottom bottom up and it gives them accountability, accountability and ownership.

And also if you get something that comes through the ranks and becomes successful, then the ownership is a good thing. I mean, we're not going to crucify you if it doesn't become successful. But if this is a great idea that this commercial is, then you will be rewarded and you will be known financially rewarded, but you're rewarded with responsibility further responsibility to take this project forward. And that's what I think everyone needs to have the ability to break through, break past wherever they're behind or wherever they're barriers at the moment.

So if they're a manager, then they want to be able to have an opportunity to grow or to show their ability. So I think providing that across the board is one of the most powerful things we've done. Upskill success in the past five years, it's all about identifying what people need, how they need it, when they need it. If you were able to look forward to probably the next five years, how important do you think education will be to the future in this country?

There's a different shift. There's a different transition whether it be from the old way that, you know, vocational education or the shift from even higher ed down to more practical skills that can be actually related back to our economy. I think that there's a shift now between the way things were done in the past, you know, chalk and talk about, you know, you're going to give education education was tafed. Moving forward, I think as I said, it's going to be about aligning the individual or the learner with an expert and then being able to provide the framework for the knowledge that's already that individual or the learner has to what the gaps are and then individual learning past.

And then the system or platform or the technology to be able to connect efficiently the educator with the students. I think it's going to be a lot more about less bricks and mortar. You know, traditionally if you had a school, you had a building. The building's not as relevant as it used to be.

Well, it's got a whole lot smaller, right? With the internet, I mean, why do you need to turn up somewhere to learn? You can learn under your own steam. That's only going to, I guess, better over the years as technology evolves more and more.

I mean, it would have thought five, ten years ago that you'd be able to do anything on your phone. I mean, your phone was something that was attached to the landline of your house and now you can access anything anyway. And I guess that's from an education standpoint, as we sort of discussed earlier, you need to identify what the trends are in order to move forward. Yeah, and I think we're finding out, and I mean, we can't be all things to all people.

So we're not trying to be the moment, you know, the answer for a kindergarten student and the answer for a person who's better retired in education. Well, I think we're, as we go forward, we're going to find out where we're going to focus most of our attention and on the vacation education space, that's where it is at the moment. That's a broad audience. So that sort of is from your 18 to 80 years old.

And I think we just continue to provide, see the platform, I suppose, the weather platform to be able to provide that customer's training to that individual and align it with national qualification framework, which will then be able to take that back to industry and be able to provide the skill gaps or feel the skill gaps that are actually being identified from industry at the moment. And then therefore be able to improve or assist Australia in the next chapter of the buzzword of innovation. Everyone's talking about innovation. I don't know if everyone knows what innovation is, but everyone's talking about it.

And the government talks about it. They've got to become competitive. We're certainly trying to do it. Obviously, it's growing as a result of being innovative, taking some risks.

But the other part of it is that we are an education institution. And the governance and our credibility is 100% aligned to our ability in the market. We focus a huge amount of our attention on making sure that they're brand and that the way of working is in line with the best practice. And that is that you're not going to get an accreditation or certificate from us.

That's just there. We don't give stuff away. We make sure you earn it. By doing that, we then create value in our qualification.

We're not a flood by noider. We've got a long time to come. Right, Joel, thanks very much. You've given us some really interesting thoughts on innovation and how up skills always try to stay ahead of the game.

Thanks, Ralph. Joel Gage, the founder of Upskill, joining us on episode two of the Upskill Masterclass. Thanks for taking the time out to listen today. If you've got any questions or feedback, please head to the website, upskill.edu.au.

Don't forget you can like us on Facebook, follow us on Twitter. You can also leave a review on iTunes, which would be greatly appreciated. And if you really enjoyed our chat with Upskill, found a Joel Gage, please, tell the friend. I'm Ralph Tucker.

Thanks for listening. Thanks for downloading. We'll catch you next time on the Upskill Masterclass. Upskill, Upskill, Masterclass.