Welcome to the movements movement with Steven Sasha and with Chris Duffin wait, I'm confused So are we talking feet today or we're gonna talk but I That was because of something we said privately Just because you're having it you're holding up a foot skeleton that doesn't mean I'm supposed to hold up a butt related something Okay, so let's just move up we can stay on topic for sure. No, we can't but that's a different story All together. Do you want to tell people why we're doing this and why we're doing this together? Yeah, so we today are gonna talk about Olympic weightlifting shoes in use of squatting and general people get confused weight lifting Thinking it's the term of everything with regards to lifting weights in the gym when Olympic weight lifting is a sport Just like golf and soccer and has a specific set of things and that's has some very specific movements There's shoes within that and those get used in a proliferation of other things We're gonna talk about that There actually happen to be a recent friend of mine someone that we both follow dr Mike Israel tell that did a video on this just a few days ago We were already planning on doing a video on this so this isn't really a response video in any way or form But I certainly added to the context and discussion So why are the two of us talking about this Steven what wait so first I'm gonna do the readers digest version of what you just said So whenever people take up some new sport, especially one involving moving your body the question is always what equipment do I need?
And when it comes to lifting weights people often think any swatch shoes you go to a crossfit gym You'll see a whole bunch of them And so when I was thinking about this and it came up in some conversation I knew the best person to talk to was you and not surprising that we had very similar opinions about this and yes As you said our friend Mike Israel tell did a little something about this and we'll dive into that So that's what we're talking about now. Let's talk about the who we are and why here I'm gonna do me first only because your credit is much more interesting in this world So I'm Stephen Sashan co-founder I was co CEO of now my wife is CEO and I have a new title. I'm the chief barefoot officer at zero shoes calm We make footwear designed for human feet and we've been doing this about 14 and a half years We have a complete line of shoes boots and sandals for casual and performance use of people use for everything from taking a walk to running Marathon's to playing basketball in the NBA we might talk about that briefly and Where's your issues calm off to you? All right, so I'm Chris often I'm an inventor in an author around things related to human resilience My the things that I've developed are used in nearly every professional sports team in North America close to a thousand colleges All branches of military leave in the White House when I talk about physical resilience I've lifted a lot of weights in the past So it's known for that did a thousand pound squat for reps and a thousand pound deadlift for reps unique specially considering my weight when I did it But my very passionate about the subjects of human resilience the passion developed in my very unique upbringing I developed a lot of mental models around how to use challenge and the struggles around us in all realms to become Stronger and more resilient and capable human being so there we are I left out.
Oh, and so I own a part of a Kabuki strength premier equipment provider related by mechanics as well as barefoot shoes BER and I guess we'd say we're even I are somewhat competitors, but we're not doesn't really matter in our views of things We do yeah, no We both hold the belief that the more the merrier and in fact I missed you at the barefoot shoe Expo two weekend ago Yeah, yeah, super super fun with a couple thousand people who showed up walking on crying and thanking us for what we've done for their lives Hey, I didn't leave out my only bit of street cred currently I'm a master's all American sprinter which I have been for last 15 years and I mean I'm in my age group. I'm one of like the 20 fastest guys in the country So does not hold a candle to lifting thousands of pounds over and over but hey, it's something for a 62 year old short guy Yeah, what's the race is the run a hundred meter outdoor 60 meter indoor? Well the season just started so I don't know yet in theory as you get older things get slower But I have some improvements my form recently that feel like I'm faster So I'm looking forward to first time racing just a couple of weeks I know you put on some additional strength to what you're talking about at least on my perchophy of the running muscles Yes, I have worked on the running muscles you can debate what those are so all that's why I left that is that yeah I'm not gonna I don't want to get into that. So anyway, yeah, I'm looking forward to the season See what happens last time I ran indoors around the 16 about 8.5, which is American time for people five years You're gonna be so I was pretty happy about that.
So let's go on to the thing So what started I don't remember what was the thing that inspired me to reach out to you and say hey I have some opinions about squat shoes and if anybody's gonna know more about this It's you and we started chatting so let's dive into that and why don't we start with a simple thing do you have any idea? But let's describe what they are and then we can talk about history and applications. Yeah, yeah, so a Squat shoe it's actually not a squash you when it's a little bit lifting shoe But I say in the same way that what we make are not technically barefoot shoes because that is quoted an oxymoron You can be barefoot and it's huge. So what you is it's just the term that people use more often Especially when they're not Olympic lifters a.k.a.
All the lifters. Yes, exactly. So it is a shoe with a significant heel raise in it It's very solid Which you do need a solid base within any lifting environment if you want to maximize your performance and the goal of that is to be able to get In a position so when you're throwing a weight Up overhead with a snatch so from the floor up and Let's just stay on the anatomy of these watch you Yeah, so yeah He'll stiff so I made of wood or something. Yeah, I think would one thing It's important for you and I as they tend to have pointy toe boxes.
Yes there again very very stiff They lock your foot down into the shoe Arguably nicely, but I can't remember what if anything are they doing for any traction on the ground itself? The primary piece of the shoe is the elevation Yeah, right if you can't if you don't have those you're trying to do those movements people often stand on a weight or something like that They're trying to get in a better position where they would lack mobility Do you do to angle doors of flexion to be able to get into the positions to perform lifts to make it easier? So do you but back to the half step? Do you know why or when the first watch you came out or how that all started?
I did pull up the history on that when we first started to do that plan on this before I canceled on you I think three times for context of my constant canceling on Stephen I had a pretty challenging month with my mother passing a few other things going on and I do not remember The so it the only thing lifting did start without the shoe and that was something that came later and it came after originally people were doing more of the split catch snatches and Something around the evolution of that there was some time that was when the shoes came in I'm not an expert in this area. Yeah, so no Ryan. I looked it up as well and similarly if I was smarter I would have pulled up whatever link it was I sent to you So what someone told me was that there was some early lifter and I don't remember if it was that if it was a Something that he made to accommodate the fact that he had either a lawn or femurs or shorter femurs I don't recall which and I can't seem to get in my head which would make sense if either of those But let's just say like many things something caught on in one world and then everyone's assumed and arguably for a particular type of person And then it just expanded now anyone who's lifting anything whether they're doing a lip lifting or if they're dead lifting or squatting And across your gym or whatever else it's like oh you've got to have these and you have to have that heel lift And why would that heel lift be important? Let's do it this way Why would that heel lift be important for people doing Olympic lifting and why would it be completely useless for anybody not?
Yeah, so you can do Olympic lifting without it and there are some top level top placing world athletes doing it There's a number of tremendous crossfit athletes doing Olympic lifting movements and competing at a high level without wearing Olympic lifting shoes So let's clarify that but the positions in that are very sport specific They are very demanding of ankle mobility particularly given limb lengths can play a role in that making that much worse So again if we get into sport specific type things, there's always some level of is that the reality of the way we function within the world, right? So saying that that's a reasonable shoe to wear in that environment does not mean that should be across the board as you Lift weights per se we're talking about an overhead movement with several hundred pounds directly overhead coming off the floor And that is something that does put a lot of challenge on that and so those people want to maximize the results It's about moving that weight as best as possible within that not the context of their overall physical development Not the context of their overall athletic development and injury risk. It is how do I maximize that and that means being an athlete doesn't mean being healthy It doesn't mean being safe. It means winning accomplishing your goal.
Yeah, exactly anything. That's going to help accomplish that goal is going to be Positive so there's two things to pop through my mind one is in the running world. There's the same thing I've got to get those super shoes this highly cushion maximum super shoes of the carbon plate and actually I'm gonna do a video about this I don't know if you've seen these videos where it's referred to as two cameras one light So you're looking to the left and you say something that it's you and it's not fit looking to the right It's talking with yourself basically and I'm gonna do once I get a marathon coming up And I wonder which of these super shoes should I get and then to me on the other side going well I don't know are you 110 pound Kenyan running it to our and slightly slightly over to our marathon No, well, that's who they're made for so in a similar vein people are wearing some of those shoes And let's say you're one of the top five runners in the world and one day one of the guys who you know You're neck and neck with shows up in a new pair of shoes and he beats you What do you think you're gonna buy the next day? And so I think there's some of that with lifting shoes as well like someone did well and I'm sort of doing it and then it becomes Somewhat ubiquitous, but highlighting two things and the third point that occurred to me That's I hadn't thought of before that you'll get a kick out of so when you are again in that position where you've got a whole bunch of weight over Your head a whole bunch of weight over your head and the proper form your shoulders are slightly hyper extended And if you and if you don't have the right ankle mobility which you mentioned then to balance that slight over extension I look by elevating your heels could be advantageous for some people and that's the geometry But I was just thinking about the clean Yeah, because you're actually going so people may not realize this but to lock that in you're going into quite a bit of Flexing with the shoulder That's a very far overhead almost a little bit behind you and you'll see the same thing in strong man athletes That's another one where we'll see and I do promote the the use or maybe not promote But I have no argument against and I see the evidence of why doing an overhead lift an overhead press of 500 pounds 400 pounds What these incredible human beings do then you have to go into that flexion If you've got it out in front you've got a whole lot more of your stable your triceps are pecking like all your risking injury of having Maintaining that position being lean back which being leaning back like that is going to it's gonna put a lot of more stress on the extension within the Discs right so being able to get into this nice flexion of the shoulder to get in that position elevate the heels It's gonna drive your pose for walking back into that back position much easier Well, here's the thing that struck me so funny though If you are doing a clean and jerk when you've done the clean and often you're sitting over the bar in front of you On your basically on your shoulders for lack of a term And you're squatting down because you know how to squat to get the bar or to get under the bar Ironically, it seems to me that would be the time where you don't want your heels elevated because that would be showing you forward So where you get the advantage in the lockout at the last part of the lift you're having a disadvantage at the beginning of that lift Yes, exactly So just like raising a heel if you're doing a snatch or still dead lifting the bar off the ground, right?
But you're much physically stronger for that with that given load then you are at the point of the lockout Uh-uh. Lock out is a key. You're actually carrying momentum at the lockout You're not even really strong enough necessarily to get that into position a lot of times You're carrying that through and so you're balancing your strengths through the total movement, right? So yes, you may be disadvantaging other times But let's just take that example of the strong man doing an overhead press for example If I does that mean I should wear those shoes if I'm doing Well, no, if I want to overhead press I want to have as much time on tension of the muscle tissue as possible and actually being in the lock position is actually when I'm Not right and I'm also behind.
It's not actually the pressing movement So it doesn't necessarily mean if I want to develop pressing ability and pressing strength should I be putting those on? No, possibly not It's gonna put them back in a little bit more hype or extension I'm gonna have a weight behind me instead of actually pressing in front and engaging those decks and triceps and impact things to develop it and coming up right as I touch lock but then going right back into the decent of the E- that's eccentric to maintain my time under tension on that's a very interesting thing It looks like you because I'm just remembering when the overhead press or for lack of a term of military press was part of powerlifting The way that people would cheat that if you will is by leaning back So it was more almost like a bench press without a bench So you're engaging much more those muscles which now is a very short story But yeah, as you get to that lockout getting your arms behind you is gonna allow you to lock out So that's a question number one So is there anything in a typical Olympic lifting shoe that is about giving you any sort of grip or traction at all? So I have not worn a one-pig lifting shoes No, but I know where you come because that was something that was I think addressed in dr Mike's video that he had on quite a bit was the grip or traction and I did not go do it as he suggested looking for Barefoot squat accidents But yeah, there's certainly the sheer gripping force on the floor is Substantially and I have encountered times when I'm not wearing any shoes that my grip is not good on a synthetic surface We're putting my barefoot shoes on plug plug plug that have a low-derometer so on it has really great gripping power within it, right? But oh, I don't you think so Mike's point was that the shoes are giving you that you have better traction with your foot in the shoe Then you would have if your foot was on just whatever surface or lifting on correct And and I would say that is a correct state.
I'd say possible depends on Yeah, because he keeps bringing up the turn sweaty feet So depends on your feet if you chalk up your feet That's gonna be a different story depending on the surface is a different story and depending on when I got back in a Sprinting and I said what do I need for shoes everyone said whatever you buy to size and have too small and I'm guessing They only way you could really lock your foot in fully other than the straps that people are using in that shoe is to have something that's squeezing your foot together Which we can dive into how non optimal that is yeah And that is an issue too with some of the shoes that we want to roll over I have experience with what Mike's talking about and so like in your when you have those high level of loads and you have maybe a Wood or concrete or a slight bit of dust on a rubber floor and you've got four or five hundred pounds on leg slightly spread Maybe to do a squat or deadlift there's times that yes your feet like if I'm climbing a tree or going over rocks or doing stuff Like my barefoot is the best But that's because I also have that proprioception that awareness of my environment the ability to grip and move and can Inform my foot but when I'm on that flat surface with maybe a little bit of something on there There is time rubber is going to stick to that Yeah, better Even though I may feel like really great if I'm going to run or something like that on it But the forces aren't as high as that so is that a potential issue? Yeah, and I think we've got a number of other potential issues there Like if we're talking about just wearing no shoes in a gym around an environment where if you were not taking care and cleaning yourself And you've got some potential disease transfer going in the back You're like there's I think that any public environment in a training space where somebody maybe that I would agree that you should put on Some zero shoes or some barefoot shoes or something like that unless it's an environment that people Are okay with that then it's fine as well. Hold on Getting some disease thing first of all I love it when people say my gym won't let me in there because they say that what happens I drop away to my foot I go the same thing if you have a shoe exactly That little bit of nylon is not gonna make a difference I had that when I walked into a grocery store and bare feet and they said you know you need shoes I said why they so sanitary purposes. I said it's cool if my feet get dirty They're like wait, no wait what I said oh wait You mean the other way around wait are you suggesting that my feet are dirtier or somehow worse than whatever people have been walking around in Their shoes that seems absurd all right guys We talk a lot about mental resilience on this podcast, but let's talk about another type of resilience that's movement resilience We want to move well recover better and do it for life and it starts with your feet and you can start today with Naboso Naboso is a sensory technology company founded by a functional podiatrist and all their products feature a textured to stimulate Strengthen and awaken your feet.
I use their splay toe spacers and neuro ball to release my feet at the end of every day They also have these textured recovery socks that feel like a mini massage when you walk around if you're looking for an effective way to bulletproof Your feet head to the moso calm that's in a B. Oh S. Oh calm and use code resilience for 20% off and yeah, no, I agree that because it's like What's the difference of your foot walking on the ground and transferring something then it does it makes no logical sense? But I think that there's some societal norms and stuff as well Yeah, it's environment I used to be a hardcore and that to that matter my gym is shoes optional and a lot of people choose not to great So it has been that way forever I'll tell you one day I was walking into our office and I'm wearing a pair of ratty shorts My zero shoes t-shirt was not as pristine as the one I'm wearing to talk with you My hair was particularly big on that humid rarely humid day in Colorado And I'm in bare feet and I catch my reflection in the window as I'm walking to the office and I just stopped dead my tracks Oh, I'm that guy.
Oh, so be it. Let's talk about my favorite And I think perhaps your favorite part as well, which we mentioned and that is and that is so hold on a second back Well, it's you had a question like when did it periff like beyond Olympic lifting? Yeah, so I think more of that started on to powerlifting Was a flat sold shoe environment for ages you look back in the 70s and it's boots in converse, right? People have known not to wear an elevated heel or a running shoe at least there have been some occasions of people in certain environments wearing that elevated shoe And I think starting strength mark riptoe.
I believe he is a promoter of that as well. Yeah, and Then the CrossFit would also be a role because CrossFit's been pretty closely tied with Olympic lifting and Well, yeah, so for the last 25 years or 20 years or so there's been more influences to bring the Olympic lifting shoe in as they splotch you into the Strength sports and over prior times. So again, that's that so I believe that those are the primary influences Now, I think we've seen a lot of change within that we're actually seeing a lot of use of minimalist shoes or barefoot shoes Which is or being barefoot entirely which is where Mike's video was really against just not wearing any shoes at all Right, and then I think we should apply like I do think his view was a bit of a reductionist view as it relates to it Because I didn't get fully enough where through to see if he was citing any research But it seemed to be I didn't hear any and in fact, I just realized I've watched a bunch of videos He's done about doing being on a light press machine or not so much in a hackswat But his light press machine where he's basically if he's not wearing his again I'm used to turn badly swatch shoes. He's which I think he is he's also the footplate that he's on is angled So that it's also elevating your heel even more.
Yes, he's a big fan of that And there's reason where that might be beneficial for the hyper traffic that he's looking for in certain muscles But other well, but he's clearly got a preference for this and he while he is off any very research back I similarly I don't recall seeing much research on that in fact I just found a thing on simply faster calm SMP SIMPL I Faster calm about the science behind weightlifting shoes and I'm perusing and by and large the research is if he Yeah, and actually I've got a ton of research citations to go through typically I don't go through because it's biomechanics It doesn't necessarily it's a right related to physics, right and Attachment points and so there's not necessarily research that needs to go into an engineering discussion Yeah, per se right but and that's why I said I felt for Mike It was a fairly reductionist kind of view at the same time You we have to understand perspectives Mike's looking at this at very much it from the body building how perchifing we're both looking at this from an athletic Development perspective, so these are very different perspectives at the end of the day But I would also temper that I could go talk to Ben Pekulsi. Yeah, it's a really known Biomechanist IFBB pro and all about 100% tell you all about barefoot or minimalist shoes for these reasons around Development and there's the key thing here is we're developing all the muscles within the foot and sure Mike doesn't want a jack foot He's already got a jack forehead, right? So First time I mean we've said about Mike and we put the door I Did that one for the social media? Since I think Jack the pulsing Jack to forehead, so anyway, yeah I think understanding the viewpoints is it is really really critical here But again, I know I've had discussions within but closely around this around muscle engagement and anytime that we can have improved Function of a tissue if I've got a weak foot I don't believe the tissues gonna work effectively upstream we have potential entry mechanisms and I could list off a number of pieces of research to do so Well even more if you're the other thing is one of the ways that I describe a lifting shoe is you've just taken the floor and put it at an angle And so one of the other things is that you're not really getting all of the feedback in your feet from feeling anything really Especially with your toes together and that information that some of that information goes straight from your foot to the base Your spinal cord and back down to your lower extremities to help you figure out how to move some of those all the way your brain And back with some of its reflex arch level stuff and if you're not getting the right neurofeedback You're not functionally and maybe just think we have a couple cycling teams that we've sponsored and one of them in the early days after a training race No training ride.
That's where I can find got out of there cleats and put on our shoes Just a regular sneaker and one of the guys noticed on his ride home He was putting out more watts in our shoe than when he was clipped in and I contended We still want to prove it that by actually using your foot rather than having your foot being a dumb lever You're not only getting that little bit of extra force possibly But the biggest things you're probably just sending signals up into your against my according back to activate things better and faster It's a thing. There's a thing. Yeah For set 2011 show that changing plants or loads and strength can also alter your foot by the bottom Absolutely, absolutely. So there's that thing where I think about how this reminds me a lot of the research is sort of anti barefoot or anti barefoot shoes They talk about how they've taken people who are used to running shoes and they've given them time to acclimate to barefoot shoes by having them Run in treadmill for five minutes at which point I face palm the hell out of myself It's like no, that's not getting acclimated and in a similar vein I don't think there's been there I can't imagine there's been research where's the right kind of comparison of someone who has gotten used to either condition And seeing how they perform it of course There's no way to do a double-blinded test because you can tell if your heels are jacked up or not So it's such a tricky thing and I wonder how much is also in the same way that some of the super shoes stuff is placebo because there's still people Winning races who weren't wearing no shoes?
I wonder how much of it is when you know you have a shoe that's supposed to improve your performance Your performance is improved because of what your brain is doing. Yeah more 2016 and this was actually on discussing potentials for Erisive element because you have the psychological dependence on the equipment This is specific to Olympic lifting shoes by the way, oh and the perceived performance enhancement, right? So I think we could extrapolate that but yeah, it's around increasing athletic performance based on the psychological effects of the shoes I had a hard one when I was I was an owner of a gymnast way back when and I had a TMJ issue This is before they were doing TMJ research on athletes So I was one of the first is back in 1976 77 and so when I got this mouthpiece to adjust my my TMJ that John Which basically by the way, it's your jaw if there's a there's some arguments If you have your John in particular position it can either make you weaker as stronger and and I couldn't tell I was wondering about this when I was in high school if this was placebo or not But I could hold an iron cross longer with it in with the mouthpiece and then I could without and it seemed like it wasn't a placebo effect Because I tend to be a bit immune to place you knows But yeah, it was interesting and you can mimic the same thing about pressing your tongue to the top of your mouth as well So there's an impact on the diaphragm and so the diaphragm then thus impacts the stabilization Which then thus impacts the neurological output, right? So this is how improving your bracing methodology for example increases your force output Yep, because your body quits down regulating due to potential injury risk situations in that becomes also the same mechanism that we see as it relates It relates to the foot or any unstable environments where we have that slippage or interference where it's a safety mechanisms to reduce your force output, right?
How ironic that training on unstable surfaces became some hip thing like this is gonna make you stronger It's gonna work on the quote stabilizer muscles, which I say there are no such thing as stabilizer muscles They're just muscles and the research is very clear that training on an unstable surface is not better for building strength than training on Something stable because you're not actually using everything probably but there are times and places for it as well I think David Weck has some interesting stuff And all by everything that he says but he was the inventor of the Bosu ball in the way that he uses the Bosu ball I think is highly effective the way most people you how it got used is a Literally upside down. Yeah. Yeah. Well, do we want to do we want to say anything more about the problems about squeezing your toes together and the benefits?
Yeah, yeah, I do but I wanted to reference this is actually direct to Mike's statement So need him at all to 2023 and this one pulled up This one pulled up and you weren't just pulling these out of your brain because I'm horrible remembering names so if I remember names with the people in the study Yeah, so specific to weightlifting and Olympic shifting shoes So they allow deeper squats and more upright trunk posture crucial for lifts like the snatch and clean jerk And then I can see where Mike's argument is Mike is asked to grasp full range of motion squatter, right? Yeah, and so to do the type of lift that he recommends I can see that being a positive aspect of that where like for me I'm going I work with a lot of athletes or strength athletes and going to your butt on the ground not often in those environments Certainly not for competitive squat as well And that's where we have the other research that I was referring to like this is verse sec 2023 affects a four week Olympic Weightlifting training on speed and power performance recreational athletes may hinder performance and non lifting activities such as sports requiring agility and speed We've got here's another one This 1985 but suggests that when people have to choose the rigid design of Olympic shows you choose can increase injury risk during non lifting activities Hellen 2017 indicates lifting lifting shoes may provide significant benefits over other training modalities for experienced athletes So again, so that gets back to my statement again Like how is it helping a strong man with a walkout but not necessarily helping with those other right those other pieces? So I think that there's a lot of context around this I could list off a bunch of other ones as well But then we get back to having a functional athletic being able to use everything change direction All of this like the foot itself is incredibly useful and the Olympic lifting shoes By the way, they're also the research shows that it can increase plantar pressure Yeah, by the way, but not in the way that we're talking where we need to actually develop and strengthen that tissue by using it and that tight Yeah, the type you want to talk about the tight that's very clear research at this point in time of what happens when we pull that large toe in and the Restricted blood flow we've got this the simplest one is actually here I can do this one but I don't do your so Continger proper research not so much on squeezing your toes together as arch support which is related to this actually We haven't brought that up but it occurred to me where she took healthy people put art support in their shoes They hadn't been wearing it previously and in 12 weeks They lost up to 70% of the strength of muscle mass in their foot and as I like to say I can't think of a time when weaker is better than stronger But yes, when you I think we're rigid which is a bit while you doing the research just taking that big toe and moving it in the way that It happens when you squeeze your toes into a shoe that's got a pointy toe box is reducing the ability to use your longitudinal arch and Blowing your foot as well the simplest thing I can do the anecdotal stuff is getting out of Olympic lifting into powerlifting We've just seen so many lifters who when they're able to use their foot by not having their toes squeeze together are lifting better We were at one powerlifting competition and women's trying on our shoes and they call her for the bench And she's like oh I gotta go I can't even see I can't wait these shoes she like runs over and then comes back to me I just had a 20 pound PR because I felt like my feet were screwed into the ground for the first time and most people who aren't Powerlifers don't even realize that a good benchcrest starts with your feet Yeah, so our lifters that are coming out of from your side wearing minimalist shoes has really started taking over the powerlifting environment I started pushing this oh gosh. I can't remember I think the first big piece I did was an hour and a half at Swiss society for weightlifting engine printing on sports of 2016 But I've been pushing it for years before that but we've seen so many top lifters just excelling with working on training their foot using Themless footwear and I don't have the research pulled up in this one But I got I did a keynote at Parisi and I think I posted this one online I've got the research a bunch of it on my Instagram I think I'm gonna post related to this but With that with the restrictive shoes the lack of planter or the support of the planter not using it pulling a large toe in like What we see I can't remember if the percentage is 96 or 98 percent somewhere in that range though of all planter fasciitis cases Are not planter fasciitis now?
I say that loosely because yeah, they're still an issue But the issue is due to the is atrophied muscle correct and degeneration of the tendons as a related to that whether it's a lack of use It's a lack of use injury and so everybody's then trying to fix it by finding more orthotics more support more lockdown Choose to give rest to fix it when it is and this is shown in it's shown in ultrasound It's shown in MRI or camera MRI and they're seeing it in biopsies as well I think I only pull the research for the MRIs and ultra sound in the piece But I've talked to a few doctors that have confirmed this on the biopsies as well like it's the jet It's lack of use and so we have a significant soon as you pull that big toe in you can imagine just grab your hand up Pull in like what happens we stop the blood flow stops happening We stop using the muscles and this is really basic stop Well everything that you and I talk about is all somewhat self-evident if you think about it You're not swayed by the misuse of physics and advertising by big shoe companies But to your point for most people and I'll do it this way. They don't have plantar fasciitis They have if they have anything that plantar fasciosis, so I met a guy so an I does is an inflammation and osis is a generation And I met a guy once who said I can't wear your shoes because I have a plantar fasciitis for 20 years I said that's not possible. He's like what are you talking about and my doctor said so I said yes It's not possible. You can't have an inflammation for 20 years and he said well went away for a year and a half out of nowhere I said yeah, so you don't even have planter You probably have a little plantar fasciosis, but what you really have is tight calves He's like what I said yeah So your calf is pulling on the plantar fascia from the proximal side and it giving you similar symptoms of heel pain But I bet you don't even have plantar fasciosis and I've had this happen with them at a trade show and I met a guy Special forces guy 65 to 66 percent body fat I got his own machine and he said yeah, we all switched to these minimal shoes We got plantar fasciitis and I took one look at him I went I don't think so he's like what I said can I stick my finger in your calf because sure so I can just see the spot from a Mile away and I just dug my thumb into it and this giant guy felt like a tree And I just had there rubbing the crap out of his calf for a few minutes as it stand up see how that feels He goes only shit that's 90% better.
I said right go back to the base have your physical therapist do that for a week or so And tell me how it goes I see him a year later he goes well just so you know that solid for everybody So in addition to your point that most people don't have an inflammation. They have a degeneration most of those actually are also starting From the proximal side not from this or so or the place where they're feeling the pain and ironically It's actually one thing back to our support It's the art support that's also making that happen because again if it's just a weakening and dis and non use the art supporters They're so you don't have to use your plan or fashion You don't have to use your foot and it's in there because an elevated heel shoe by the time your foot hits the ground You're putting your planner fashion under strain and rather than trying to get rid of the elevated heel in the regular shoe as well The shoe companies went out why don't we just put something in there to immobilize the muscles anyway? So that way they can't over strain them. It's like only crap.
I can't even know that's the original story to if anybody doesn't know That's actually what happened. Oh, yeah, you thought I was playing it on my butt Yeah, if we're using the tissue there, we're gonna get better engagement We're gonna get better engagement the tissue around it now the problem with that like you said if they all started wearing those and didn't Free it like a string training program. You don't walk into the gym and do 225 for 50 reps your first day, right? And then again your next day and then the next day right that's not a training plan, but it's progressive right?
It's just like strengthening the shoes not the fix you are the fix you need to get stronger there And if you do you're going to have better engagement of the tissues around it as well because why are we starting to lack? Why are we I talked about the tongue to the mouth and their friend that are like the inhibitions? Well, what else do we do if we've got weakness around a joint the body starts restricting mobility around the joint to protect it? So you lose what do we lose ankle dorsiflexion if you've got a weak foot?
Yeah, shall I say that again? You lose ankle dorsiflexion if you have a weak foot So which turn it upside down because most people think oh I need these statues because I don't have good Exactly pull your nose. Yeah, it's a process, right? So if I get a strong foot and then I get better engagements of those muscles and the muscle around it, I'm going to Reduce my injury risk.
I'm also gonna have enhanced proprioception enhanced neuromuscular control, right? I would argue that's going to give you at the end of a better hypertrophy effect Which is I think where better colsy stands as well But I do see this very specific position with these high-dep squats and what I'm like talking about and again Anybody that's using those type of shoes and seeing success do it. I'm not gonna do it. Yeah, do it Don't remove but get a stronger foot to put inside of it and minimize the use so wear it No, you know you're wrong with it.
So I was gonna say let's go to a suggestion This is kind of like what I say to people who are wearing those quote super shoes I go cool If you're gonna run in them run in the race in them But as soon as you can get out of them and into something that lets you use your foot naturally and build up strength and there's research showing that wearing a minimal Shoot yours or mine builds foot strength as much as doing an exercise program for your feet There's research from Isabelle Sacco showing that improvement in strength relates or correlates to a 250% reduction in running injuries over the course of a year So yeah, so get your feet strong Don't stay in something that you know makes them weak get your feet strong and then you're in a position where you can experiment and my god If you got a serious competition coming up Don't do it then do it when you got time to do the experiment and see how you feel and it feels like you want to make that Adjustment because you think it could be better in some way great, but like in the same way Don't switch to a new pair of shoes the day before a race. No, I'm wearing yeah Just like yeah, so like I said so no argument with my cone We have a specific shoe that we want to wear this do that Yeah, but very clear the more that we use that specialized footwear and I've quoted the research that I referenced in this discussion But it will restrict performance and activities in other areas that require high levels of agility and flexibility Yeah, it's going to increase your potential injury risk as it relates to that it increases plant or pressure leading to get a potential stress injury And again, we talked about too much time none use of the foot is going to what we've got tons of MRI Imaging and biopsies to show that it's causing atrophy of muscle and tendinopathy issues relating to problems So I mean this is just summarizing this and a short period done Yeah, I mean back up to Mike and David credit There are situations where that would be good But in the same way that the Olympic lifters were talking about where they might need this product are lifting serious weight when Mike is working with his Serious bodybuilders these guys are pushing serious weight. This is not your average Jim bro who even with me my god Like I'm five what am I I'm five five one forty five and put me on a leg press with 450 And I can just push that all day long but I'm fine doing that barefoot you get your average person who is not lifting that kind of weight Or proportionally with more it's my big beef with crossfit. It's like wait I got to deadlift the same thing as a guy who's six foot one ninety five that doesn't make any sense But anyway the point being that even Mike's athletes are not necessarily You although anybody watching his videos wants to you know imagine that they are one of those guys who is in the offices in 325 pounds and just a complete monster So that's actually whole other comical thing about how back to my point about being 105 pound Kenyan What do you care what that guy's doing?
You're not that guy so there's some of that still an issue where we want to pretend to be that person and do what they're doing When that's just completely inappropriate from every level I can possibly imagine. Yeah So yeah, so nothing saying that he's wrong at all in the statements But he's yeah need to look at those with a level of context because they appear to be relating to anyone stepping in the gym to Do a squat which is certainly not the case we're talking about a very specific goal and adaptation That's needed from that and a lot of other environments. It's actually going to be quite disadvantaged. So yeah And there we've got yes, I think we have reached a clear end point Is there anything we need to say in one to two sentences tops to wrap it up or do we just pretty much nail it in 10 to 12 Senses in the last two minutes Again this is coming from our perspective, but if we want to think about our long-term Muscles so it'll help and our greater training versatility and adaptation Yep, please give those a thoughts And I think that can help at least where we're coming from in this discussion And I hope that the citations around the research in the discussion around the mechanic side of it Hoped to where you know our viewpoint let's talk about maximizing your strength and resilience when chasing my thousand pound squat I made my own supplements out of necessity to help push my body to its physical limits So I founded build fast formula because I needed supplements that actually worked every time I trained all our formulas are backed by peer-reviewed research and third-party Inform Sport tested for quality and safety listeners can get 10% off by using code resilience at buildfastformula.com That's code resilience for 10% off everything at buildfastformula.com find your formula and feel your physicality today Yeah, I'm gonna just echo that and say beyond lifting similar thing for people running if all you're doing is road running Then you're not putting your body under the kind of positive stresses you stress that is helpful If you're just doing you know single-planeing movement over and over and over so get it on a trail do some other things jump rope Do whatever you can think of it's actually using all those muscles like this attendance at different angles different joint angles different actual angle angles from the Torquen Moman arm perspective all that physics stuff and I think this is a something what you just said something people overlook It's one thing to be able to do that activity that you like it's another thing to be a well-rounded healthy Person-slash athlete and ultimately we're all athletes just some of us do something about it some of the stone Yeah, so stronger feet and ankle complex is going to allow you a lot of different training environments and challenges and over the course of your life You're probably going to start engaging in different things and your ability to move into different sport specific trainings and needs and be able to adapt to that and push comprehensive training programs and all that you want to improve your overall athletic performance and in Recums to long-term muscle cellular health strong foot-nagle complexes always lead to better alignment better low distribution The lower body which alleviates stress on joints like knees hips low back when you're doing resistance training and there's research coming out shortly I can't site it specifically because it's not published yet But I know the lead researcher about balancing the elderly from just wearing minimalist footwear and the rumor is that the research is going to be Very positive for what we've been talking about so speaking as someone whose father died nine years ago because he had crappy balance I'm wearing shitty shoes and trip on something tiny fell down broke as heaven was dead two weeks later I have a vested interest in helping that go away And this is another thing strong feet leading to strong ankles and all the proprioception that goes along with that and just the nerves up as well You don't want to lose that because you don't want to be one of those people who is shuffling shuffling shuffling and then you trip on a Piece of gum on the sidewalk and then you're done So think long term which something humans are very bad at but to the extent that you can be the healthier you are now The healthier you're gonna be when you're at a point where most people aren't Cool, so here let's do the sign off point people to your thing.
I'll point people my thing you go first Yeah, you can find all our podcast episodes. I've got a new community free community that I've got this link down there Everything business everything's chris stuff and calm just go there. I my name in the internet to the socials all pop up It's not complicated. It's chris duffin like muffin, but with a DD you have F.
I am and you can find our stuff in two places my podcast This is my joke everyone's got a podcast. I'm getting really sick of it I'm not more on my podcast So we've got the movement movement podcast is at www.join the movement movement calm Nothing you need to do join That's just where we have everything you'll find all the previous episodes all the places you engage with us and of course You go to zero shoes calm to find out more about what we're doing for the footwear that just gets out of the way to let you do What your body and feet are meant to do like we've been talking about for the last 50 minutes and 53 seconds Yeah, that was a good discussion. We kind of we're around we're wandered around a few things But I thought we covered it pretty well you and me rat just going on tangents imagine that