Episode 4: Meet Jasmine

Jasmine is a mom of four, homeschooling/ afterschooling her children in Southeast Asia. Shifting her priorities to a more traditional homeschool, Jasmine’s approach is both intentional and thoughtful as she transitions her older two kids from middle to highschool. She has been homeschooling for seven years, originally in Pennsylvania, before her family of six moved to Southeast Asia. Her two youngest attend the local school where the are immersed in a bilingual program of traditional Chinese and English. She is still responsible for teaching her younger children ELA. Her family continues to adjust to their new lives,  taking it one day at a time. Show Chapters 00:00 Opening Highlights 01:36 Meet Jazz 03:12 Pennsylvania's Homeschool Requirements 08:13 How the Pandemic Led to Homeschooling 14:26 Raising a Gifted Child 21:42 The Decision to Move to Taiwan 24:34 Downsizing a Life Into Suitcases 27:27 Adjusting to Life in Taiwan 33:39 Homeschooling in a New Country 38:18 The Case for Traditional Homeschooling 38:53 Beauty of Play Membership 44:13 Teaching an Inclusive History 51:29 Arts, Music & Bringing Yourself to Homeschool 53:01 No Requirements: Homeschooling as a Foreigner 58:23 Homeschooling Teenagers 01:02:12 Creativity, Rest & Following Teen Interests 01:06:46 The Greatest Challenge: Time 01:14:50 What Surprised Me Most 01:16:32 Closing Jack and Link Core Knowledge History and Geography Science Language Arts Mathematics Ida B Wells Tennessee State Museum Women's History. org PBS Masterpiece Transcript Della (01:20) This week we're meeting Jazz. Jasmine is a mom of four, homeschooling and afterschooling her children in Southeast Asia. Shifting her priorities to a more traditional homeschool, Jasmine's approach is both intentional and thoughtful as she transitions her older two kids from middle school to high school. She has been homeschooling for seven years, originally in Pennsylvania before her family of six moved to Southeast Asia. Her two youngest attend the local school where they are immersed in a bilingual program of traditional Chinese and English. She is still responsible for teaching her younger children ELA. Her family continues to adjust to their new lives, taking it one day at a time. Della (02:11) This is a homeschool journey. Della (03:12) hello, Jazz, welcome. Jazz (03:15) Hello? Della (03:15) I'm so glad that you're here with me. Jazz (03:18) I'm so glad to be here. Della (03:19) I have started the previous podcast by talking about where people are and their requirements, but you were a little different because you moved your family from the United States to Taiwan. So I want start where you started homeschooling and then move to where you are now and the differences between that. So can you tell me what the requirements in Pennsylvania? were for you to homeschool. Jazz (03:48) Okay, so Pennsylvania was probably one of the more stricter states, just as far as what was required. Before you can homeschool, you have to have an affidavit that you give to the school district. And I would have to get that notarized every single year. I would do it online. then you have to submit your learning objectives. And then you're able to homeschool after that. at the end of the homeschool year, you have to meet with an evaluator and they basically go through your portfolio and depending on the evaluator, depends on what you need to include in your portfolio. I had one who was kind of in the middle. So she required three samples of each subject just to see progression. And then she would interview the kids just to ask them how they enjoyed homeschool, what was their favorite thing about homeschool. If they had any adventures they went on. She was very nice. And she told me I always submitted too much stuff. but I felt really good about it because I was really proud of our homeschool and all the things that we were able to accomplish. we do a lot of creative projects, which the public world doesn't see. So being able to show those creative personal projects really meant something to me. I think she saw the pride in that because she would always comment like, these art projects are so good. I'm like, thank you, thank you so much. But that was as strict as it got. We didn't have anyone contact us or check in for the year. The school district is allowed to do that. they are allowed to ask that you submit work within 30 days, but our district didn't. I didn't expect them to do anything like that. Submitting paperwork and at the beginning of the year and then submitting the paperwork after we had our evaluation, for the most part was smooth. I think the district. didn't really understand like, would you want to stay in homeschool? You know, why not send your kids to school? But I also had a child who was gifted. And so I think it was more of a, this will help our scores rather than, you know, your child would love to be here type of situation. The kids did, my two older kids, Della (05:59) Yeah. Jazz (06:06) did wind up going to school before we left for Taiwan the year previous. They did wind up going to school part time. My gifted child, she went for her gifted and talented classes and then they both went for band. They didn't really like it. I think the environment was just too chaotic for them. So they wind up leaving that portion. my daughter still went to her gifted and talented classes and that was like the best. The teacher was amazing. It was amazing to hear how she took skills from home school and used them in that class. before we moved to Taiwan, we had planned to do it all over again. The kids were going to go to school part-time for certain subjects. We were going to try it because they requested. And my daughter was going to do her gifted and talented class. And then over the summer, My husband was hired for an art teacher position in Taiwan and everything happened very quickly as you know. And then we moved here and it's been very different. Della (07:09) Yeah, so when you were in Pennsylvania, how many children were you homeschooling? Jazz (07:16) I have four children and I was homeschooling three. my middle child, my second daughter, she was going to nursery school, so she would go to nursery school for a couple hours each day and she would come home and then we would do just a few lessons, mostly art projects, reading, walking around, going to the community garden. going to our local library. then older two was a bit more formal. Della (07:48) had a baby during this time, older now, but you also had a newborn in the mix of all this and eventually a toddler in the mix of all this. Jazz (07:52) Yes. Yes. Yes, I had my fourth child. she was a new, fresh toddler. And I remember the trip here thinking I never want to do this again. Della (08:13) I can imagine. Jazz (08:15) Ha Della (08:16) So how did you find yourself homeschooling? What was that path for you in Pennsylvania? Jazz (08:23) I I originally thought about homeschooling for my oldest and he's the only boy. So I was noticing that he just needed a little bit of extra time when it came to homework, when it came to practicing reading. I felt like the one-on-one environment might suit him. So we started the research. But then, you know, as it goes, you start talking to people about it and then people kind of, because everyone, society tends to have negative ideas about homeschooling because they don't really know about homeschooling, just stuff based off of hearsay. And so we just kind of hung up the idea of homeschooling. It was just kind of like, okay, well, maybe we don't do this and we just try for the extra homework help and. We'll just do our best with when he comes home. And then the pandemic happened we were one of the states that went on lockdown and everything happened so fast. I think this was everyone because no one knew what was going on. The information would change every single day. And we knew that there was a chance we would go on lockdown. but there was no real plan in place. It was just kind of like, you'll go on lockdown and things will just close. And that's pretty much what happened. There was word out that we had some cases and there might be a potential lockdown. And then all of a sudden, the day before, they had told the kids, you know, make sure you bring your books bags, it was like, okay. Kids brought their book bags. And then we got alerts on our phone saying you need to pick your kids up midday. And it was just like, okay. So it was. Della (10:04) Wow. Jazz (10:07) panic mode set in, it was very chaotic. Thankfully, we lived right down the street from the school. it was a three to five minute walk. I remember grabbing, the two young ones, running over to the school, grabbing the kids and their book bags being heavy. my daughter, she was doing a hybrid program. she was doing a school online. then she would go to school for her specials. she was actually at school for her special. she came, we already had the laptop because she was doing online school. They came home and it was just like, now what? And my daughter, continued her online school. My son went. we went to go pick up his Chromebook. And I was just in a shock in a daze because everything happened so fast. then I saw the work that they assigned my son and it was awful. It was online. It was, there was so much reading comprehension. Remind you, he's in second grade. So it was just paragraphs and paragraphs and paragraphs of information. And then at the end, there's some multiple choice. Then there's this writing component. it was very different from what his school day looked like. His teacher who was phenomenal and I loved working with her was even like, this is, I don't know what this is. This is not what I would teach the kids. He struggled. He cried every single day. My daughter who was in cyber school and doing phenomenal, we got no information from the principal from the cyber school. She was just doing the work. the teacher was actually the one to alert us, hey, they're gonna be closing down your school district and your daughter has to complete all of these assignments within two weeks. And it was a month worth of assignments that she had to complete in two weeks. So when that happened, they… shifted her grade based off of her pacing. she had all A's, all of her scores went down to B's. And one was a high C and she was devastated. And anyone who has a gifted child knows like gifted kids can be very sensitive. And they also, some of them can struggle with perfectionism. And so for my daughter to Della (12:06) Mmm. Yes. Jazz (12:22) the day before, see her grades and be proud of her work and see her grade. Like she had, in two classes, she had like 105%. And to see that go down to an 80, after you worked so hard for the majority of the year, she was devastated. I told her, listen, we're gonna fill everything, but then we're gonna get to work. And she worked hard. She worked really hard and got all her grades back up. Was I angry at the school? Absolutely. Never heard from the cyber school principal. Even when we left to move here, It was crazy. while the kids were going through all of this, I spoke to my husband and I said, I think we might need to homeschool. I think this is a sign that we need to homeschool. I looked into it. Of course, when you type in homeschool on Google, you're going to get all of the main homeschooling companies. You're going to get the top blogs. So I didn't know what secular and non-secular meant. I didn't know that there were different philosophies for homeschooling. Della (13:25) I think a lot of people have been thinking of homeschooling before the pandemic and the pandemic was kind of their jumpstart. this is a good time for us to start. Nobody's going to criticize us right now. And then there were a whole group of people that… I don't want to blame the schools. feel like they were doing the best with what they had available to them. And I feel like they really pivoted quickly for online schooling. But I think a lot of parents just weren't really happy with the online schooling option. And so that also prompted them to homeschool too. And some of those families Jazz (13:49) Mm-hmm. Della (14:09) went back to school and a lot of those families like found their home. You know, this is what we want to be doing. We really enjoyed homeschooling and they continued even after everything else opened up. Jazz (14:22) Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. And I think that's what happened to us. My kids were also in a Title I School District. the resources were already not there. that was something that I also struggled with And something that I would discuss with the teachers, like… Why don't these kids have everything that they need? And it's not the teacher's fault. And I would always tell the teachers, like, it has nothing to do with I even with just trying to get my daughter signed up for Gifted and Talented, because with her, she went to kindergarten and it was just too easy. She came home, she hated it. She cried and I said, okay, I think we might need to move you up. I spoke to the school about it and they gave me a hard time. They said, kids her age don't test for the gifted and talented program. We don't test kindergartners. And I was just like, okay, well, you're gonna test mine. I went back and forth with the school district they kept saying like, well, some kids are bright. So how do you know? I was just like, know my kid and if she's bright, that's great. we'll do what we need to do when it's decided, but it's not been decided. we're going to test her. they just kept trying to put it off and tell me little kids can be smart. Some kids just come in knowing more, based off the parent. I understand that. I do. I know what you're saying, but we're still going to test her. finally they tested her with essentially the district and the principal of the kindergarten center not believing me. There was a lot of doubt, but she was tested. I came in for a meeting and they were well, your child's gifted. I was wow, imagine that. Della (15:53) So let's talk about that a little bit. let's talk about what it is like to homeschool a gifted child. Because I think a lot of people have a misconception and think they're just across the board, bright, get things easier, but there's definitely a flip side and there's advantages and challenges to homeschooling a gifted child. Can you talk about that? Jazz (16:21) absolutely. after she was tested, I remember we had this meeting with her teacher, the principal. then the gifted teacher and my husband. they were talking about what they could do for her in kindergarten. we can give her extra books. We can. Give her extra worksheets. I sat there and I smiled and I listened, processing the information because I'm someone who I have to think about stuff first. I don't like to react because, sometimes you make bad decisions when you are heightened with emotion I sat there. The gifted and talented teacher sat there and she smiled. She looked at me and I was just like, okay, yep, I understand what you're saying. Yep, yep, yep. Meeting ended, the gifted and talented teacher said, hey, take a walk with me. Took a walk with her and she said, is that what you want to do? And I said, absolutely not. Can we move her? Della (17:10) Right. Jazz (17:11) I was can she go to first grade? she said, absolutely. She was your child's gifted. We can do whatever we want. I felt so empowered. I felt like finally someone is validating my feelings. she's amazing. This woman was amazing. Amazing during our homeschool journey. I mean, I just absolutely adore this woman. And she, the first thing she said to me is, I'm going to let you know that gifted kids, they don't all fit in a box they're not all the same. And we are going to do what's best for your daughter. At the end of the day, it's about her and how she learns. I really loved that. I loved that. It wasn't okay, here's what we're going to do. Bam, bam, bam. was, nope, we're going to figure it out and we're going to work together. to do that so we are both supporting her. I love a good supportive teacher. Love them. And I was just like, okay, all right, let's do it. Della (18:04) Mm-hmm. about gifted children in my experience they have something they excel in and then they have different things that are challenging to them. Jazz (18:17) Yes, absolutely, absolutely. So with my daughter, she processes information very quickly. And that's across the board. You can give her anything and something that would take a child maybe a few days to learn the concept. She can learn probably within 10 to 15 minutes. Even though she processes information quickly, there is also the downside of Sometimes it's too quick and something tells her that whatever she's processed is 100 % correct. when she would do her work, sometimes if she got something wrong, she would struggle with it because it's like, no, I learned this, it's correct. And it's just like, no, it's not correct. And then there would be a shutdown and it was just like, okay, let's take a deep breath, let's take a break, we'll come back to it. She's also ELA gifted. And I think another misconception is that gift of kids are gifted in all subjects. And that's just not the case. She has a few subjects she just does not like. She does not like math. She'll do it, but she doesn't like math and simple things in math she struggles with, like place values. It took us a really long time for her to understand place values, which you go like, what? It's so simple, but that's just how her brain worked. Which was, surprising for us too, because we didn't know what it meant to have a gifted child. I had some idea from school. My husband was in the gifted program, but it was very different. I was in the honors program when I got to high school, and that was different. So we weren't really sure how to fully help her. And that's why it was so important having that relationship with the gifted and talented teacher because she understood she understood where my daughter was coming from. It's going to be a process and you're going to learn. Della (20:02) Mm-hmm. We, We all learn No child is on par sixth grade for everything in every subject, but when you have a gifted there's more difference between the subjects, I think, which can make it a little more challenging because you may be doing ELA. Jazz (20:20) Mm-hmm Della (20:25) in high school level and then you're doing math normal fifth grade level. In addition to that, especially if you're gifted an ELA, you're looking at things where they can read and process and understand at a certain grade level, but the material is not age appropriate. Jazz (20:46) Yes, and we've run into that a few times, especially in the beginning because she advanced to first grade her teacher was great. I loved her first grade teacher. Then we moved to second grade and my husband and I had made the decision to put her in cyber school because then she had more autonomy over what she was learning because she was processing information so quickly. So it was just like this is a great way for her to if she wants to move ahead, she can move ahead. If she needs more time in a subject, she has more time. She meets with the online teacher once a month, they go over stuff and then she's going to her gifted and talented classes. Della (21:26) Okay. So your husband got a job in Taiwan and you guys uprooted and moved all the way across. Jazz (21:28) Thank Della (21:36) to literally the other side of the world. Tell me about that move. Jazz (21:42) it was fast. We started the process. decided, I remember June 3rd, talking about it. Homeschool IG connected us to someone who lived here, who became a good friend. I just remember I was working at like five o'clock in the morning and I stood there and I was like, you know what? I think it's time we move. I remember messaging my husband, how do you feel about Taiwan? Because it was on our list. had a whole list of places, countries we were considering moving to. I just remember I had this thought, well, what about Taiwan? I know someone who's lived in Taiwan. he said, OK, yeah, let's look into it. I came home and I messaged that person and she lived in Australia I messaged her and I was hey, what can you tell me about Taiwan? in the course of a few hours, she sent me so much information. She sent me voice recordings, she sent me links, she sent me all of this stuff. I gave it to my husband. he said, I'll look at it. I said, no, no, no, I need you to look at it when you have the time. that night he listened to the voice messages. He looked at all the links and he was I think we can do this. I think we can do this too. we talked a little bit more about it she just kept sending us information. at the end of those two weeks after doing the research, after talking about it, going back and forth, we were like, okay, let's do this. So we started the process, getting paperwork, moving to another country. A lot of people think you just need a passport. You don't, you have to authenticate everything. You have to authenticate your children's birth certificates. You have to authenticate your unabridged marriage license. We also needed to get passports. It was a he submitted his applications for cram school, which are after school programs, essentially. he submitted his application with teaching agencies. immediately these places started reaching out, which shocked both of us. he did a total of three interviews. Two with the teaching company one with a cram school company. And because of the time, the one agency was okay, we're gonna keep your application on file, which is what we expected because typically they hire people between April and May. the chances of him getting a job were very slim. then the cram school company, they didn't want to hire him because he had a family. they asked them during the interview, are you coming by yourself or are you trying to bring your family? said, well, I want to bring my family. I think that was kind of like a, that's a lot of more trouble than it's worth. then the last agency said, okay, we're going to go forward with you. we actually have a position. we found out that night they loved he was hired and it was just like this is happening and by the end of September we were on a plane to Taiwan. Della (24:34) and you had to downsize tremendously. Jazz (24:38) Everything. We gave up everything. Della (24:42) how many suitcases. Jazz (24:44) We were allowed two suitcases. They had to be 50 pounds. You could have a personal bag and a carry-on. we are a family of six and that was 24 pieces of luggage. All of our entire life had to be packed in these two places. Della (24:59) Well, I have to say, I think the hardest part would be choosing which books you're going to take and getting rid of most of your books. Jazz (25:09) It, yes. I had over 12 bookcases and I remember going through all the books and saying, okay, what could I repurchase? you saw it, I sold a bunch of books I was really grateful to the IG homeschool community because I wasn't sure if I was going to be able to sell anything. it really helped us out a lot to downsize. all the popular books that I knew I could find anywhere online, those were the first to go. And then my history collection, which I had worked years looking for books and building this collection, I had to figure out who could I trust with it to hold onto it so we could pay for it to be shipped over here. we didn't really care about things. We knew we were starting our lives over. let's pack the clothes we think we need. Let's see where all that fits. We vacuum sealed all of our clothes it's hot. we don't really need to carry winter clothes. I wish we had carried more hoodies to be honest, because the winter here is like a cold humid and it's only 50 degrees, it's bone chilling cold. we filled some up with books. It would be like half books, half the wooden boards from Jack and Link, which was really funny. because my kids were like, is this really Do you really need this? Della (26:25) And as a homeschool mom, you're like, yes, I cannot leave without my Jack and Link toy. Jazz (26:31) Yeah. I was just like, I have invested money and they are coming with us. what was crazy was every suitcase had books. So would be, we pack half books, half clothes, something sentimental. And this was every single suitcase. And then it was just like a couple Jack and Link products. And then everyone's carry on had Jack and Link products because I was just like, what if our suitcases get lost or what if they don't arrive or make it? I can't, I'm not losing this stuff, so I packed it in our carry-on. Della (27:00) Well, and those in this case have come in really handy because your printer is broken. Jazz (27:04) They have. they have. But it was something. Della (27:08) Right. So what was the transition like from the States to Taiwan? I really felt like it took you about a year to get your feet under you. Jazz (27:20) absolutely. because I'm a realist and I don't like surprises, I predicted it would take us a year just to adjust. and then when we got here, I was like, it's going to take us two years. We moved to a rural city even though I want to say a good portion of people speak English, at the time it was just like, whoo, huge culture shock. even for me, because I had moved around, I was a military brat. So I thought like, I'll adjust very quickly. just trying to figure out where places were, translating, I didn't even think about how long it would take to translate just simple texts. That took forever. every day we would go, okay, let's plan to go to the grocery store. we're going to conquer the grocery store. would come up with a plan how we would do that. that would be our week mission. Della (28:10) a major transition because what I've learned from you is that it's sometimes easier, healthier, and cheaper to eat out. Jazz (28:12) Yeah! Yes, most people don't have kitchens. Most people don't have as we've learned later on, you can go and pick up stuff from vendors, but it really is just super cheap to go and get a little container from a bento place or get fried rice or get dumplings. it's incredibly cheap. Now we're a family of six, so it evens out depending on who we're all trying to feed. we could do groceries or we could eat out. It's going to be even regardless. let's eat out just adjusting to that, trying to figure out where can we get food from? becoming accustomed to the food here. I was never a big fast food person. our first couple of weeks we weren't eating 7-Eleven, we were eating McDonald's because it was familiar. I was so glad when we started finding food places, because I cannot eat anymore McDonald's. cannot. Della (29:15) Bye. Jazz (29:16) I can't do this anymore. it was just one of the few options we had because it was familiar to the kids. We had a few picky eaters. Also, we have kids with allergies. And there was a worry of nuts being in the food. So one of my children, was just eating chicken nuggets almost every meal. Della (29:35) Yeah, I can imagine that would, you I share your food allergy problem. And that is the hang up for me with traveling, especially with the language barrier. Like, how would you know that the food is safe? Jazz (29:50) Right, as we started to adjust more, I think the next place we went to was the night market. It was right down the street. We found out about it so you have all these stands, all this food, and we would have it translated on our phone. Do you have nuts in the food? Son has nut allergy. it was just that simple. they would read it and some would say like no no no like you know no don't let him eat it and then some are like no okay, okay and That's pretty much how we did it for the first few months once we started getting more comfortable with the food and Different stands and vendors then it was just like okay. Well. This is this is what we're doing But the language barrier was huge for us because anywhere we went there was some form of translation some form of us holding up phones and taking pictures to translate in the Something that would take five minutes would take us 30 minutes to an hour we're very humble people and we were grateful to be here but there were some days where it's incredibly frustrating because You want to do something like run an errand, go pick some stuff up, you're translating everything. this has taken a really long time. Della (30:57) can imagine. Yeah, that that would be a big barrier. What are some other significant differences that you guys noticed? Jazz (31:08) everyone was immediately friendly, in PA, we had moved around to different places because we were trying to figure out, where can we get our forever home? there was no place that quite felt right for us. people are not quick to warm up, at least in Pennsylvania, because I also lived in South Carolina and people are very friendly in South Carolina. But here was a different kind of level nobody wanted to see us struggle. everyone was very quick to jump in. do you need anything? Do you need help? We came home with so much food almost every single day. Someone was giving us stuff, especially realizing that we were. new foreigners here. I remember walking home from an errand and some guy pulled his car over and was like, Hey, hey, where are you from? And I was like, America. And he was like, okay. He was like, are you new? I was like, yes. And he's like, welcome. And then he handed me his lunch. Della (32:04) That is so heartwarming. Jazz (32:05) His little shirt. It was, it was a bit alarming because you just don't expect someone to order, you know, in the States somebody pulls their car over, you think you're getting kidnapped. I was just like, like, whoa, what is happening here? I was ready to fight this man. Della (32:10) Right. And you also had moved right before Lunar New Year. So what was that like in Taiwan? Jazz (32:33) we got here at the end of September. So we still had some time. what was funny was when we moved here, it was still typhoon season. even in the beginning, my husband had to work a lot and then they had a ton of holidays. it was would go to work and then he'd be like, okay, Jazz, I'm off for two days. then he'd go to work for a couple of days. He's like, oh, there's a holiday. And then he would go and then come back. He's like, there's a typhoon day. And I was like, when are you going to work? When are you going to do what you're supposed to do? then Lunar New Year comes up and that's, I believe, the winter break. And it's a month. for us, that was actually wonderful because things close. Everyone goes back home to spend time with their families. To me, it's very quiet. My Chinese tutor says it's very quiet on the outside, but inside everyone is very loud. It's a party and stuff. But for us, it was a chance to explore where we lived. And that's where we started learning where things were. Because we would just walk. We would just walk our neighborhood. We would walk around the city park. just learning about different places. this is where this store is and this is where this vendor is. it was great. we started to feel more comfortable Homeschool was a little different. it was trickier. I did not anticipate that living here would be so difficult. And then the kids… their eyes are wide open dealing with emotions and change. you don't know until you experience it. I had one child who really struggled with moving here in the change. My older two kids were great, but at the same time we were learning about the education system. certain parts felt daunting to them. And I have a toddler. who's in a new place and it's just like, I want to be outside. why are we inside? I don't want to be here. that was tricky. The first six months were really hard for us as far as homeschool goes. I had books, but I didn't have a printer at the time. Once again, homeschool IG moms, just amazing. I had met a group of women. through Jack and Link. they were so supportive and so helpful. we were actually able to get a printer because of them. which I'm very appreciative and grateful for. I remember sending them a message like, I got a printer. But. Della (34:51) Right, and that's a big deal because you're limited in the curricula that you can get there. Jazz (34:59) Right, no one ships here and then if they offer digital, it's PDF so you have to print it. Honestly, the only way you can get a lot of stuff is through Amazon and that's a process too. You have to go through an app to get your packages and stuff and it gets easy once you set everything up but I had to set everything up I have to figure out. Like I brought books, thankfully. I had our next unit that we were studying. I was grateful that I had foresight to think what will we need in case we don't have access to certain things? But it was wow, we're not in Kansas anymore. Curriculum is not as accessible as I thought it was and once again, I just have I don't know what it is, but I Just made so many amazing friends through IG including you and talking to everyone and everyone saying okay, what do you need? just having that support really helped because I was stressing. Della (36:01) land? What curricula did you choose? What could you get a hold of? How did that influence your homeschooling? Jazz (36:08) I knew we could count on Core Knowledge because it's free, it's online and then from there, just reaching out to friends and teacher friends and what they had available, I was able to get curriculum through school districts from teacher friends. I can start putting together a plan. I also had children who had entered into middle school. And so we're dealing with preteens. I have a new teenager now. it's just like the emotional part of that. Now we're trying to focus on the academic portion. Honestly, the homeschool community just really had my back. we were able to put something together. But just all the changes and the emotional part of those changes, I think, affected our homeschool as well. it was really hard for the kids to get into it. Della (37:02) the aspect that I know from talking to you also has been that It has sent you on a path of homeschooling that looks a little more like school than some other homeschoolers. Jazz (37:16) Yes, I was. an eclectic homeschooler, but I was always on the side of old textbooks, getting curriculum through school districts. My kids were going part time to school, so I would look at what was available from the school district just because I was a huge fan of if we don't have to reinvent the wheel, let's not do it. So if there's a teacher guide to it. and know the text is here then this works. And I felt comfortable with it. Also from my daughter's cyber school days, it came with a teacher guide. and there was a learning curve. so I learned how to use textbooks and learn how to implement lessons through textbooks, knew what to cross out when there was like group collaboration, all of that. I felt comfortable with it. way more comfortable than I guess any other philosophy because I just feel like there is a learning curve with every single philosophy and you have to invest a lot of time in these philosophies, to understand them, to understand how you're going to implement them. I was just in a spot where I don't have time to do that. We're going to stick with what we know. Della (38:25) Hi friends, it's Stella from the Beauty of Play again. The Beauty of Play membership subscription is now open for enrollment. I've been homeschooling for over 15 years and my oldest is in his third year of college. In this subscription, I've essentially downloaded my brain from all those years of homeschooling and teaching math. In the past, with coaching, I could only help one person at a time. but now I can share more with more people at a lower price. I'll help you avoid burnout by finding efficiency that allows the deep connection with your children, the cozy feel of your homeschool and the quality of education for your children. We'll go over your baseline schooling for when things are rough. We'll go over daily rituals that give you the connection with your children that sustains the more challenging portion of your homeschool. We'll go over how we learn, how to put together units or blocks, how to teach things like reading comprehension, art study, nature study, handcrafts, and science. For math, we'll look at each concept individually. We'll talk about how the concept progresses from introduction to mastery. We'll talk about what understanding needs to be in place before introducing a new concept. And of course, we'll use all the manipulatives to do this. We'll also talk about how you can play with math in a way that's physical. and provides practice without doing constant worksheets every day. will throw in art that introduces a concept or enhances its understanding. Most importantly, I'll be there in your homeschool journey every step of the way. When you are stuck in a math concept, I'll help explain it to you. When you are unsure about mapping out an educational plan, I'll walk you through that. you doubt and become unsure of your homeschooling, we'll identify the needs and walk together back to the path of success. I'll be there by your side every step of the way. four posts each month in the subscription and they include text, video, audio, and or downloads. I've set up easy navigation system so that you can find what you need. I know that most homeschoolers are making some kind of a financial sacrifice. For that reason, I've kept the subscription costs low. The subscription allows me to coach a larger group at a more reasonable price. Depending on what option you choose, it's as little as $17 a month. at the beauty of play.com. If you haven't already, you can sign up for the newsletter at the bottom of the page and I'll send you some free samples. I want this to be an easy yes for you. I'll see you inside. Della (41:38) Well, I think initially in the beginning of your homeschool journey too, there was this lingering option of going back to school. Jazz (41:48) Yes. Della (41:49) And that eventually shifted. you have a family that is planning on going back into the school system, then I think it's worthwhile to look at that option. As a homeschool coach, I have seen a wide variety of different homeschooling options. And as soon as I see somebody say, you should never do it this way, there's a family that needs to do it that exact way. For some reason, it fits their needs. so I've learned not to judge Jazz (42:24) Great. I absolutely agree. And I think a lot of times when we make the decision to homeschool, when you first start out, you already have an idea of what you want your homeschool to look like. And then it becomes something completely different after you get your feet wet, and then you're in your second and third year. I would probably agree that most people who start, one, have no clue what they're doing, and two, know, pick options that don't necessarily work for their families at first, because they don't know. Della (42:55) Most definitely. It takes two to three years, I think, to really adjust until you have a homeschooling environment that really fits your family. Jazz (43:08) Right, absolutely. I tried different methods. I tried different philosophies, but I just kept coming back to traditional way. And I also realized the kind of person I was as a teacher to my kids. And I knew that if I wanted to make it more engaging more rich, I couldn't have doubt. about what I was teaching, if I'm questioning, this enough? Am I doing the right thing? Then it was taking away from our homeschool and we weren't able to have these other experiences. I needed to feel confident in the stuff that I was using. because I was so familiar with the textbook style, I rarely had questions. Whenever I was using any type of curriculum from a school district, there was hardly any questions of, this enough? Because it's all laid out, it's all right here. Now history was a little different and I had to just go through different histories. Right, so. Della (44:02) Yeah, let's talk about history. Jazz (44:07) I mean, everyone knows, the majority of history, depending on where you live, is very much whitewashed. There is history that is just the key points. So you're not focusing on the behind the scenes and how these movements came to be with these different people. I learned just as much history, new information, as the kids did. I remember… we were learning about the women's suffrage. I knew Susan B. Anthony. I was seeing the pictures, it was all white women. I just assumed, okay, that's who the movement was for. But then homeschool, right. Della (44:42) Nah, were all kinds of, yeah. Well, even well before Susan B. Anthony, Sojourner Truth was talking about that kind of equality for women. Jazz (44:57) Right. I came to all of this stuff because of homeschool because I remember purchasing some books to pair with the the unit that we were looking at. in this book, it was about the women behind the movement. there is indigenous women, Asian women, Black women. whoa. then I learned about the racism in the women's suffrage movement. Della (45:20) that was a surprising thing to me. I also did not learn that till homeschooling. there was racism in the suffrage movement. they were leaving a lot of the African American women out of the equation. Jazz (45:35) Right. some of the leaders of the movement, Susan B. Anthony was friends with Frederick Douglass. we had learned about Ida B. Wells. Ida B. Wells critiqued the movement. She critiqued the racism. There was another woman. I feel like I'm going to get these names wrong, but I believe her name, first name was Francis, and she was very racist. And she didn't like that Ida B. Wells was speaking out. And so she spoke to Susan B. Anthony about it. she asked Frederick Douglass, like, hey, can you talk to Ida? Which I found completely like, wow, really? To someone you can't even talk to yourself, you know? And like, tell her to calm down, essentially. Like, excuse me? No. I don't know if it's the fire energy in me, but I was just like, absolutely not. IG was becoming popular at that time too, and someone else was sharing this story. they felt the same way, like, can you believe this? we learned about Ida B. Wells and everything she went through with journalism and lynchings and writing about them and being threatened. Della (46:38) Mm-hmm. Jazz (46:38) So, homeschool really opened our eyes to there's a whole other world of history out there. I wanted to be a truth seeker in history, because I would look at something and I would say, okay, this happened, but what happened behind it? And who are the people involved? And whenever any movement, any major event, I would always look for the voices. that weren't there. it opened my eyes to the fact that we really don't know anything about history. Like a lot of us really don't know. Della (47:12) Well, history is a challenging in and of itself because you can't cover everything. You're having to pick and choose anyway. But it's been, in my experience, it's been so Eurocentric and we have the opportunity to broaden that up into different points of view, different Jazz (47:23) Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Absolutely. And I think the first step in even just building a history curriculum is just realizing that we're all ignorant to it, in some way, unless you were raised to seek these things out. But I think most of us as adults all kind of had the same education when it came to history. And even with me, my mom, she got a set of encyclopedias, Black American encyclopedias. And I remember reading through the encyclopedias and thinking like, I know everything about Black history and how wrong I was because I didn't. information is always changing and more things are being uncovered. I realized, if I'm going to go into this, if I'm going to give my children this information and this knowledge, I need to go into this with the idea that I know nothing. Della (48:12) Yeah. Jazz (48:27) and I'm relearning everything. And that is what has helped us with really loving learning is looking up this information, discovering new things together and just that joy and that wonder of like, wow, can you believe this happened and having those conversations? History is one of my favorite subjects, even as a kid. And I feel like that's also what has kept me homeschooling as well because when you start including all these voices, you realize we're just a speck. We're just a speck on this planet and everybody has thoughts, opinions, ideas, points of view, some helpful, some not. And it's just like collectively. we make up these larger systems and these larger ideas and principles is truly something to be respected and honored. Della (49:21) What are some things that you look for when you're teaching? What are some underlying currents or understandings that you're looking for? What kind of things do you look to include when you're teaching history? Jazz (49:35) Well, the first thing is there's no perfect history curriculum. We know this. the first thing is a spine. I'm looking for a spine it's not gonna have every thought and idea and every marginalized voice, but at least some acknowledgement. if I'm looking at a textbook, there has to be some acknowledgement, that other people exist, essentially, and some truth behind some of these events. once I found that spine, okay, what can we add to it? So then that's when I sit down and I'm just like, okay, who's not here? Who's not front row and center? And I will, I will go through every ethnicity looking to see were these voices there during this event and it's just not included. I will find their stories. I will find other stories accounts of those events through a different point of view. I will include those stories. I will look for media about what happened. use what I've learned through TV and television, watching shows that left an impact on me that could correlate of those events. would also think about how do we see ourselves in history because we're all a part of history. Even if… it seems like, in the smallest ways, we were all making history. And how can I include my children in that so that they understand why things have happened and shifted the way that they have. it would go from this spine or this textbook, and then we'd be surrounded by 20 different books. I would have a playlist on YouTube of different things to watch. And then I would throw in some TV shows and then I would throw in an art project because the arts are so important. So now we have this art project and then I'm throwing music and that's how we review history. Della (51:29) are all aspects I tried to do too. I'm not, I really tried to do a little bit of music but I wish I was better at that. Jazz (51:39) my husband is a graphic designer, I was a photographer, my mother is incredibly creative and I think that it was just there for us. Like my husband played the bass guitar so, not that that has anything to do with anything but. Della (51:53) Well, it does. It does because you are exposed to music, you're seeking it out, you have a certain level of knowledge, and it makes it easier for you. Jazz (51:59) Right. And I think that something that we often discredit is who we were before homeschool. so before homeschool, we were a family that would wake up to music in the morning. we would go to bed to music. it was ingrained in our daily living. We would play jazz music while we were eating. my husband would play rock music as he's getting the kids. to bed that was just our everyday life so then when it came to incorporating music and to our homeschool it was just like well second nature it just makes sense. So I always tell homeschoolers like who are you before you homeschool and add that because that's equally as important you know like don't give them Della (52:46) It is really important. And I think it's also really important to include your own needs in your homeschooling. It's easy for us to include the needs of our children because we're so focused on them. But I think it's also important to be introspective and view your own needs and then make adaptations for those needs as well. Jazz (53:14) Mm-hmm. Absolutely. Della (53:16) Taiwan, what were the requirements for homeschooling for you Jazz (53:23) well, it's definitely different. When you are a foreigner, there are no requirements. Because I think… Della (53:30) Well, that's an extreme way to get out of accountability for homeschooling. Jazz (53:34) right. it's not that they don't have, a homeschool board here. They do, but they don't expect you to stay long. Or if you are a foreigner, a professional, foreigner, you're putting your kid in a bilingual school or an international school. I think that's the assumption. and there are foreigners who homeschool, but. You don't register with anyone. Now, if you do decide to register, I think what a lot of people don't know is they give you one chance to register as a foreign student. And that's across the board. K through 12 college. Once you register, that's it. I think for college you get two times. But once you register as a foreigner, then you've used that option up. when you are applying to the next level of school, you are considered a local. if you register your child through homeschool or even in school, depending on the your child has to take the Chinese standardized test. And that was something that I learned when I got here. it was quite a shock because I was hoping to register with the homeschool board and put all my kids in school part-time because that was the plan before we left. then realizing like, I could register my older kids and they would be held to the same standards as the local students here. And. are not prepared for that at all. They do not know traditional Chinese. Yeah. Della (55:00) All of your children are currently learning Chinese, right? Yeah. Jazz (55:04) Yeah, yes. And it was like, whoa. So we had to think about things. had to change, change a few ideas and thoughts of how we thought we were going to approach homeschool. My older two are still homeschooling. My younger two are in the public school education system. and then they after school because I still have to teach them ELA. and that's always fun. It was funny because I put them in school and I'm like they're in school. Yay. I just have to help with homework. And then it was like way. They're no ELA Everything's in Chinese, duh. Della (55:42) Yeah. Right? Jazz (55:45) But there is no oversight. So for me, having oversight and being used to oversight, was just like, this feels very uncomfortable actually. No one's checking in, no one's anything. I remember evaluator, She decided she wasn't gonna evaluate anymore, but she had other options. So I reached out to one of those options and I said, I know I don't live in PA anymore, but would you still check our schoolwork? Would you still do a portfolio check? So I have some connections. Somebody is looking over what we're doing. And this woman said, yeah, sure, I can do that for you. Della (56:21) That is so interesting to me. You are the second person in our interview that has told me that they have looked outside for portfolio evaluations in just checking to make sure you're on the right track with your kids. Jazz (56:39) I would say because I need it. I need that accountability. I know everyone says it's lifelong learning, it's all together. But for me, homeschool educating, I looked at it as a job. And the reason for that is because every job I worked, I had excellent work ethic. But as a mom, I'm good, but. You know, I have my moments as most mothers do. So I was just like, I'm a good mom, but I'm an excellent worker. when I was approaching homeschool, I have to look at this as a job because if I look at this as part of motherhood, we are not going to do as well. Della (57:02) What don't we all? Jazz (57:16) and I took it seriously. So when I would send in my portfolio reviews, I'm reporting to management I got to show them the best of the best. and moving here and having nothing, I was just like, no, cause I'm going to slip. I'm going to slide. I'm not going to take this seriously. need someone I need to report to. I need the accountability. Now I know some homeschoolers would say, you know, that's that, Traditional mindset, that's the Rockefeller mindset of school to work and probably have several arguments But I like having an excellent work ethic and I like having someone to check over the things that I'm doing I like criticism when it's, constructive, Della (57:57) We really appreciate our portfolios too. Not only is it helpful to have somebody review the work, but usually the evaluators are so knowledgeable and so helpful in any questions that you have or any insights that you might not have thought about. They are really excellent in filling in those gaps, gaps you may not have even known about. Jazz (58:15) Mm-hmm. Della (58:23) let's switch gears a little bit and talk about homeschooling teens because they are a whole different ballgame. Their circadian rhythms change. sometimes their demeanors change. Sometimes their needs change. So what's it like homeschooling teens? Jazz (58:43) I would say it is a double edged sword and not in the way you love talking to my teens. I love listening to their thoughts and ideas and I love seeing who they're becoming, who they could potentially become. I think even more than children, there is a lot more emotional support. but you're also giving your teenager more autonomy and you are allowing them to make more decisions and make more mistakes. the natural consequences of things sometimes can be a little tricky to navigate because in your mind as an adult, you're thinking I wouldn't have made that decision, but they have to learn, I got to. respectfully, not helicopter and hover. absolutely love just watching the gears and watching them grow. It's going too fast. I think the negative part of it is how society views teens and adapting to that. Because It changes. Everything changes. When you have children, there's so much joy and whimsy and magic. even here, everyone loves kids. They have Children's Day. there's its brightness and so much color and it's beautiful. And then your kids become teenagers and the world has said, OK, work. That's it. go do stuff. it breaks my heart because just listening to my teens, be interested in things and ask these questions that I would never think to ask or Della (1:00:09) Yeah. Jazz (1:00:20) Just even sitting and watching TV with my teenagers jokes that we laugh at and the things that they're starting to get, they care too. Yeah, they care too. Della (1:00:26) They're awesome! Teens are so amazing! I mean, you get to have these amazing, deep conversations that you would never think to talk about. You get to see their personalities show through and they are so witty and so funny and they're so cute. yes, they're so creative. Yes. Jazz (1:00:38) Right. and creative. Della (1:00:52) And there is all the other things that go along with that, navigating the emotions or whatever, but there is a real prejudice against young people that they're often assumed to be up to no good or given the benefit of the doubt. But I really enjoy teaching and having teens as well and young adults. Yeah. Jazz (1:01:07) Mm-hmm. Right. And they're not allowed to be idle, which I feel like is actually detrimental to becoming an adult because I was an adult that didn't understand rest and know what rest meant. And I feel like it starts when we become teenagers. It's just go, go, go, go, go. You have to prepare for your future. it feels like there's no breaks and seeing my kids just be bored because when you have younger kids and they're bored and it's like, mom, I'm bored. go find something to do, then you watch what they create and build but for teenagers, no one wants them to be idol. It's go do something. go be in this sport or this club. we start to overload them with things because we don't want them to stop. But homeschooling has allowed for the kids to stop and pause and process. we've talked about the talents and the skills that have come from that. with my daughter, who I didn't know could draw. all of my kids draw with my husband. It's something they do on the weekends. she's self-taught. in those moments of quiet, in those moments of pause, she taught herself how to draw. now, her work is amazing. It's beautiful. it's just because she could be idle, she could be bored. She was given that space to do should absolutely have that. we should continue that in adulthood. our teens need that. They want to draw too. They want to color. They still want to color in the coloring books. Della (1:02:48) Right, right. So what are some adjustments that like I know for us there was adjustment in time. My daughter got up a little later, but she was also not out mentally, maybe emotionally ready for school until later. we're not even checking in until 11 o'clock. And then there's also a lot more autonomy in the teen years. So maybe talk a little bit about that. Jazz (1:03:20) I have one child who loves getting up early and then the other child does not. And as someone who has start and end times when it comes to homeschooling different subjects, that can be a little tricky and it's like, okay, so we have to meet in the middle. because I can't start too early because then one child will be left out and I can't start too late because now this child has hours upon hours of free time and they're waiting to start school and they want to. the time thing is a big deal. I think the mental part too of just wanting to start the day, watching them get ready for the day, make breakfast and stuff. it's like what you were saying earlier about you need your coffee first before anything can start. Della (1:04:02) Yeah, I don't think we were recording yet, but I was saying, I need my coffee and I don't know that it's so much about the coffee. It probably could be any warm, rich liquid, but I need 30 minutes to an hour to myself before I have, can you do this or do you know where this is? Jazz (1:04:23) Right. Right. And I think it's the same with the teenagers. they need those moments in the beginning I'm awake. I'm here. I'm about to start learning. our homeschool times have shifted from there was one time we were starting at 1030 because it was just like, it just had to be like that. Because it was like by the time. they were waking up and they were ready. It was now 1030. I think the other thing was literature change for us. The kids, as much as they appreciate the literature that would go along with some of their subjects, they also had an interest and a curiosity about the world. I had to start incorporating books that I was reading into our homeschool. And like we read Atomic Habits together. And they were just like, wow, that information was really helpful. like, thank you, mommy. And I was just like, okay. Okay, we started incorporating more philosophy books. We read. remember the title but it's by Tabitha Brown and it was like I tried a new thing and so the kids really love listening to that audiobook we got two-thirds of the way through it we definitely need to finish it they still read picture books and children books and stuff but also like being interested in the self-help books and trying to figure out who they are and listening to the audiobooks The other change was just being the observer in their life and seeing the things that they were interested in. your kids say, I want to be this when I grow up. you take the paths to help them like, oh, OK, you want to be this? Well, here's some text. Here's some activities and stuff. but just like even noticing what the kids are watching. my son, was watching a lot of YouTube videos about computer science and coding. are you interested in this? And he was just like, yeah. was like, we can do stuff if you want. And my daughter started watching house and I was like, are you interested in medical stuff? Della (1:06:03) Mm-hmm. Jazz (1:06:23) now she is doing anatomy and physiology. I'm not guiding them. I'm watching. They are the captains of their ship and I am the first mate. Della (1:06:33) what has been your greatest challenge in homeschooling? Jazz (1:06:36) time. I think time has been the biggest challenge. I realize that there is more time behind us than ahead of us. And in my mind, I just keep thinking there's so much for me to teach you. There's still so much for teach you. Della (1:06:56) feel that. Jazz (1:06:57) And it's hard. Della (1:06:58) I honestly don't think you could ever teach it all. My son is in college and I still have that feeling. Jazz (1:07:05) Yes, and so then you are stuck with this decision of well, what can I teach you that's going to have the most impact? I think that has been hard for me because the world is changing faster than I can keep up with and the kids are learning this information faster than I can keep up with I Della (1:07:21) Mm-hmm. Jazz (1:07:28) can't predict their futures. I don't know what's going to happen. there is this worry of, well, if I teach you this one thing, then is that even going to apply when you become an adult? I feel like you hear this clock in your head of tick, tick, tick, tick, tick, tick, tick. that's what I struggle with. we started a new thing. We're doing cultural studies. I felt like that was my way of giving back to the kids and giving them this wider insight into how the world works. Because when we moved here, it's not Western civilization. It's not the Eurocentric type of society. It's different here. They still use Confucius practices here. they even have an event where you honor your elders and you wash their feet. we just got a notice for that, being part of the community and showing respect and honor to our elders and showing, you know, how much we appreciate all the hard work that they've put in for future generations. And so you wash their feet as a sign of respect. And that's very I'm looking and I'm like, no, you guys need to learn so many different perspectives because even when they leave home, they'll continue to seek out information and want to hear other stories and experiences, and not judge and not be quick to react and that's how I've been contending with this time that's going so fast is how can I make learning more insightful for you that you keep doing it when you leave home? Della (1:09:01) How do we cultivate lifelong learners? Jazz (1:09:05) Right, I just want them to appreciate life and live it and not be burdened by it. Della (1:09:13) And that's something that I have found myself doing with the teens also is protecting that time for enjoying the life that you're in right now and not being completely focused on what comes next, but enjoying where you are now. And I heard that when you were talking. about your teens as well. Jazz (1:09:40) Right, and we do. like we have moments where we'll watch, you know, just watch TV together. We are watching BBC shows and Masterpiece Theatre. And typically you would think like a teenager is interested in that. If you want to watch these stuffy British shows, you know, from the outside looking in. But I add my personality to it. You know, I tell the kids the tea is hot. And we add our own little car. It's an experience. The kids always say, because they'll sit there when it first starts. they'll go, my goodness. OK, what are we watching? And then I'll just pop in and be like, he read her for Phil. Can you believe that? And they'll look at me be like, well, what do you mean? Della (1:10:09) Watch Masterpiece with you. Jazz (1:10:28) Or like if there's a love interest and I'm like, he's standing 10 toes down for my girl. Yes, get him, honey. I'm like, you better get your man. And my teens are just like, what? What do you mean? And then they start to participate. They're like, he didn't deserve her. Cut him loose, See, this is why I couldn't get married. And it's just like, starts to get conversation. Della (1:10:49) I love that they start participating. Jazz (1:10:53) And my son who because we watch, you know, we watch like the Pride and Prejudice shows and stuff, what people would consider like very feminine shows. he'll be in his room when we start them. And then he'll hear us hooting and hollering. And so he doesn't want to say like, I want to watch these with you. So what he'll do is he'll grab an iPad or his gaming console, and he'll slowly start to edge his way. And then he'll sit there and then all of sudden he'll start asking questions. well, why did she do that? Well, why is she over there? Well, who is that? What's going on? And I'm just like, you're interested. And so we start including him in the conversation. And by the end of the show, he's just like, I can't believe she picked him. my goodness. He's terrible for her. she's making bad life choices. And my daughter and I are just like. Della (1:11:28) interest. Jazz (1:11:41) cracking up laughing behind her hands. I think like a lot of times too with teenagers, we think we're supposed to have big core moments, right? Like we're supposed to make these huge gestures of I'm your parent and I love you so much. And I just want you to understand that. And let's have this huge moment. And it's, doesn't have to be that. Della (1:11:44) Cheers. Jazz (1:12:00) It can simply be sitting on the couch watching a TV show, making jokes, cracking jokes, you know, or going to the night market and talking about the interactions we've had or food. Della (1:12:05) A quiet presence. Yeah. Mm-hmm. Well, and listening to them when they talk, it's a lot of the same on a different level than it was when they were young. Almost every night when I get ready for bed, my daughter comes into my room and that's when she wants to talk and she just tells me all kinds of things. And I think the important thing is to be present. Jazz (1:12:18) Yes! It is. yeah. Della (1:12:42) I make a point to put down my phone when my children walk into the room, regardless of what I'm doing, and be there and listen. Jazz (1:12:42) Mm-hmm. And they love it. They love inside jokes. They love having inside jokes, especially when they feel like, oh, I'm a part of this. I think our biggest joke right now is every time someone coughs or sneezes because one child's watching house. So when my husband and I are going, oh, do think it's allergies and it gets a cold? And she'll scream out, is it lupus? Della (1:12:54) They do. Mm-hmm. LUPUS? Jazz (1:13:18) Because on Houzz, the beginning of the episode, they would go, well maybe it's loop heads. And so it's just… And so it's just… And I mean, Lupus is very serious thing. But they would say like, they would ask like, is it Lupus? And they would… Multiple episodes are like this. So she would scream. Della (1:13:24) did not see that coming. Yes it is. I have a friend with it. Yes it is. That's hilarious. Jazz (1:13:44) And then everyone would start laughing like, okay. But it's just having that and just like having that joy. You know, they can be very serious people too, you know? So it's just moments. Della (1:13:55) Yeah, well, you have taught me that a lot is to seek out joy. Jazz (1:14:01) Always, always, the other thing is we're leading by example and everything is so hard. And when the kids watch us succumb to the negative, they still have to grow up in this world too. they look at it like, it's hopeless. But I'm like, no, there's always hope. There is always a small moment. Della (1:14:02) always. Jazz (1:14:24) life is always happening somewhere and even if it's just a minute or two, it's still happening. So I do try to prioritize the joy. I still make room for all the other emotions, anger, sadness, grief, and we've lost people. So understanding grieving has been important in our home. Della (1:14:47) okay. Last question for today. What was something that surprised you in your homeschool journey? Jazz (1:14:55) that I would put so much of myself in it because you know this I'm a very private person when it comes to homeschool and the things that I hold near and dear to my heart like my love of history The way that I lead our morning conversations or even when we're starting a new book. it's not stiff, I know that people view us when they see us as traditional homeschoolers, they immediately think public school at home, but it's not that at all. It's how we implement those lessons. And so I put so much of my personality and the quirkiness and the awkwardness and weirdness and stuff. All of that is ingrained in these lessons. And I show up as myself. And I don't even think about it. it's just like, and so then when they're repeating information back and when we're, you know, I'm trying to see gauge how much information they retain, I often find that they retain the information where it felt personal and they felt included. And it's like, you know, they remember the other stuff too, but then they'll go, remember when we were sipping tea and you were talking about, you were talking about. Della (1:16:04) yeah, yeah, we have those too, yeah. Well, Jazz, thank you so much for spending this time with me today. I've really enjoyed our conversation. Jazz (1:16:17) Thank you for having me. Della (1:16:19) Yeah, and for anybody listening, can find any links, resources, and information on the website, thebeautyofplay.com forward slash podcast. There'll be a whole page of that information from today's discussion with Jazz. Jazz (1:16:37) Yay! Della (1:16:39) Thank you so much for listening today. If you can, leave us a review and share this podcast with a friend. Next week, we'll talk with Tanya about homeschooling a child with ADHD, transitioning back into middle school and high school after homeschooling, and her advice for first-time homeschoolers. We'll see you next week.