F*ck the Patriarchy

In conversation with Bobbi ThomasonA survey of Harvard Business School graduates — ambitious, educated, the ones who were supposed to have figured it out — found that the women expected equal partnerships and the men expected their careers to come first.The men's expectations were exceeded.Bobbi Thomason is a professor at Pepperdine's business school, a Stanford-trained engineer, tenured ahead of schedule, and one of the leading researchers in her field on women, work and negotiation. She also moved across the country for her husband's job while studying exactly why women move across the country for their husband's jobs. Her conclusion, after fifteen years of research: if you're having the conversation about equality in your marriage, you've probably already lost the battle. The decisions that shape everything — who moves, who steps back, who gets the bigger career — tend to be made before anyone sits down to talk.This conversation is for anyone who has ever been managed, undermined, talked over or passed over. Which, the data suggests, is most of us — as Bobbi makes clear, this isn't only about women.Her book, Vows to Ourselves, publishes March 2027 from HarperCollins.Have something to say? I'm all ears. If this conversation meant something to you, share it — it's still the best way new listeners discover the show.The podcast is free and always will be. If you'd like to support the reporting, essays and interviews behind these conversations, consider becoming a paid subscriber.  Subscribe hereWant more between essays and episodes? Check out Below the Fold —dispatches on the stories worth paying attention to, from the people in my own backyard to those reshaping the wider world.Watch clips and video previews on YouTube Credits:Host: Meredith Ogilvie-ThompsonSound Editing: Dax Krishna and the team at SpeechDocsMusic: Ilya Kuznetsov