Healing From Narcissistic Abuse (with Nikki LaCroce)

My guest today told me her podcast intro calls are basically vetting sessions, because she doesn't want boring people on her show. "Small talk is virtually non-existent," she said. "It's basically like, hi, how are you doing? And one of my best friends said this: I don't care about the weather, I want to know what your deepest trauma is." That's Nikki LaCroce, and once we got into her deepest trauma, I understood exactly why she vets her guests. In early 2021, Nikki experienced what she calls her personal Armageddon: leaving a decade-long relationship with a covert narcissist while simultaneously losing her mother in the middle of the pandemic. Nikki is a podcaster (Can I Just Say?) and, like me, someone who believes the most important conversations aren't the polished ones, they're the real ones. We talk about the difference between overt and covert narcissism (her ex was covert, which she says made the gaslighting and love bombing almost impossible to name at the time), the "pain threshold" that finally pushes someone to leave, and why one of her best friends telling her "you're asking for the bare minimum and you're not even getting that" was the sentence that changed everything. We also get honest about the guilt that lingers after you leave, especially when leaving means you also lose time you'll never get back with people you love, and the deal-breakers exercise Nikki did to rebuild her own sense of self from the ground up. Watch this episode on YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2VPHk5B8Kvc In this episode Why covert narcissism is so much harder to spot than the "textbook" version, and why gaslighting doesn't always look dramatic What the "pain threshold" is, and why it takes crossing it to finally leave an unhealthy relationship How gratitude helped Nikki hold onto her sense of self while she was still in the relationship, not just after Why regaining your sense of self, not the breakup itself, is the hardest part of leaving a narcissist The deal-breakers exercise Nikki used to rebuild her own standards for a relationship How to release the guilt and shame that linger after you leave, especially the guilt over time you can't get back Timestamps (00:01) Welcome and guest intro: meet podcaster Nikki LaCroce (05:38) The 2017 move to Seattle, and the toxic job that came before it (11:52) Starting therapy, and the therapist who said "if you're going to do this, you commit to going weekly" (12:12) The "pain threshold": what it takes before we're willing to do the work of change (18:21) The intersection of gratitude, mental health, and connection (22:41) Covert vs. overt narcissism, and why Nikki didn't recognize love bombing and gaslighting as they were happening (28:21) You deserve to be freed from the abuse, and you deserve to heal from it (33:19) Releasing guilt and shame after leaving an abusive relationship (35:53) Why it takes an average of seven tries to leave an abusive relationship (38:07) The deal-breakers exercise: rebuilding your own standards from scratch About Nikki LaCroce Nikki LaCroce was raised in the suburbs of Philadelphia and moved to the West Coast in 2017. In early 2021 she left a decade-long abusive relationship while simultaneously facing the unexpected loss of her mother amid the pandemic. She hosts the podcast "Can I Just Say?" Listen to her show wherever you get podcasts, visit canijustsaypodcast.com, or follow her on social media at Nikki LaCroce. Favorite quotes "You're asking for the bare minimum and you're not even getting that." —a friend's words to Nikki LaCroce, the turning-point moment she describes "Gratitude and anxiety can exist at the same time." —Nikki LaCroce's therapist, as relayed by Nikki "The hardest part about leaving a narcissistic abusive relationship with somebody is regaining your sense of self." —Nikki LaCroce's therapist, as relayed by Nikki Resources mentioned "Can I Just Say?": Nikki's podcast, available wherever you listen to podcasts CanIJustSayPodcast.com: Nikki's website Related episodes For more on narcissistic abuse and rebuilding after it, try: Trauma Impact: From Codependency to Self-Mastery: Amanda Kate's parallel story of surviving chronic narcissistic abuse and reclaiming her sense of self. Surviving Gaslighters and Manipulators: more on the gaslighting patterns Nikki describes living through with a covert narcissist. Subscribe & connect If this episode gave you something to sit with, follow Phoenix and Flame so you never miss an episode: all apps in one place, or jump straight to Apple Podcasts, Spotify, Amazon Music, or YouTube. And if it moved you, leave a review; it's the easiest way to help another listener find the show. Learn more about Phoenix and Flame, connect with Dana, and listen to more episodes here. Curious where your own boundaries stand? Take my free Work Boundaries Quiz: danaskaggs.com/quiz