Lorrie Holmgren – Cozy Travel Mysteries

Lorrie Holmgren’s Emily Swift Mystery series are cozy mysteries which break the conventions.  Instead of taking place in a small town community with a predictable set of friends – the convention for cozies – international travel writer Emily is in Hawaii in one book and the beautiful English Cotswolds in the next, and her armchair travelling readers love her for it. Hi there, I’m your host Jenny Wheeler, and Lorrie talks about her second career as an author of fiction and the mystery in her own life that could be a plotline for one of her stories. Six things you’ll learn from this Joys of Binge Reading episode: How writing workshops got Lorrie started Why mysteries give her a thrill Discovering the wonders of travel The joys of blending fact and fiction The writers she admires most Defining writing ‘success’ Where to find Lorrie Holmgren:  Website: lorrieholmgren.com Facebook:  http://www.facebook.com/lorrieholmgrenauthor Pinterest:   Lorrie Holmgren Cozy Mystery Writer (holmgren1501) on Pinterest Twitter:  https://twitter.com/LorrieHolmgren What follows is a “near as” transcript of our conversation, not word for word but pretty close to it, with links to important mentions. Jenny Wheeler: But now, here’s Lorrie. Hello there Lorrie, and welcome to the show. It’s great to have you with us. Introducing Lorrie Holmgren Lorrie Holmgren: Thank you, Jenny. I’m so glad to be here. Jenny Wheeler: Beginning at the beginning as we like to do, how did you get into writing? Was there an epiphany that you suddenly thought one day, I’ve got to write fiction, a once upon a time moment, and if so, was there a catalyst for it? Lorrie Holmgren: There kind of was. I had always loved to read and even when I was a little girl, I would make up stories for my own amusement. When I was in college, I took a short story writing class and just loved it. We had to write a story every single week, which is pretty challenging, but I enjoyed it so much. Lorrie Holmgren – mystery author From then on, I had the idea that someday I would write a novel. It was kind of in the back of my head. I didn’t start right in to do it, but all my jobs involved writing. I wrote ads, news articles, op-eds, column speeches, news releases, you name it, but still in the back of my head I thought someday I’ll write a novel. Then the real catalyst. I took a week-long, very intensive novel writing workshop and it was taught by Will Weaver who wrote Red Earth, White Earth. From then on, I was serious about writing and really plunged into it. At that workshop I met other writers and we formed a writers group. We still meet, we still stay together and critique each other’s work. It’s very helpful. Jenny Wheeler: That’s wonderful. I hadn’t heard of Will Weaver actually. Lorrie Holmgren: Have you heard of the movie Sweet Land? Emily Swift – travel writer sleuth Jenny Wheeler: Yes, I think I have. Lorrie Holmgren: He wrote the story that is based on, A Gravestone Made of Wheat I believe it’s called. Jenny Wheeler: You’ve now got three books published in your Emily Swift travel mysteries and the latest one that we’re talking about particularly today is A Killing In the Cotswolds. Your central character is a travel writer and you pack lots of fabulous tourist information into every book, but particularly this Cotswolds one because it’s such an amazing area to visit. Is that part of the appeal for you, that you get to go traveling? Murder on Madeline Island Lorrie Holmgren: It is a wonderful excuse to travel but the only time I planned a trip that was on purpose to collect information for a book was my trip to the Cotswolds. My first book, Murder on Madeline Island, I wrote about a place I knew very well because I had been there often with my writers group and I was familiar with it, so it was pretty easy for me to do the descriptions from that. Second book again, Homicide in Hawaii, I chose a place where I had already gone on business trips and vacations and I thought it was just gorgeous and of course, very different from Minnesota. I could just plunge in writing because it made such an impression on me. But for A Killing in the Cotswolds, I had never been there, and I did go to England on purpose to gather information. The perfect assignment As you know, my sleuth Emily Swift is a travel writer and her assignment is to write about springtime in England. We went there and I kept a very detailed journal. Every night I would write out my long hand notes about places my husband and I had been and meals we had eaten. Lots of lovely teas. It was great fun. So yes, I hope to do more of that. Jenny Wheeler: Was that in the springtime? Lorrie Holmgren: It was in the springtime and that’s a sad thing. I was expecting, because I had been to England in Spring before, in March, and it was always glorious. It was daffodils and the crocus carpet and just beautiful. But this time it was freezing cold and there was snow and ice. I couldn’t believe it. So I had to decide, am I going to write this the way I intended to, describing it as beautiful and Spring-like or should I have Emily shocked and surprised to find out that it’s not what she expected. That is finally what I decided to do. Jenny Wheeler: There are lots of wonderful destinations or locations there, like the Shakespeare house and all those sorts of things. You give a very nice chance for people to learn more about those. Were you an English major? Is that part of what you love about a place like the Cotswolds? Springtime a perfect time to visit the Cotswolds Lorrie Holmgren: It is. Like my character Emily, I was an English major. I’ve always loved Shakespeare and to go to Stratford and visit his birthplace was a thrill. It’s fun for me to work in Emily’s literary references and her enthusiasm for books and for English history. I also discovered a tourist spot that was new to me. I did not know anything about Avebury so discovering those ruins and learning about that ancient civilization was fascinating. Originally, I didn’t plan to put it into the book, I was just going there to learn about it, but the setting wormed its way into the plot. So it’s there. Jenny Wheeler: For people who might not have heard of the Avebury circle, tell us a little bit about it. Fascinating Cotswold locations Lorrie Holmgren: It is kind of like Stonehenge but on a smaller scale. It’s older than Stonehenge and unlike there, you can walk among the stones. You can touch them. It’s very isolated but it is where a very ancient civilization lived thousands of years ago and they were very sophisticated. We don’t know exactly how they managed to put these huge stones upright, but they did do it, and we’re not exactly sure of the purpose. They think it was some kind of religious ritual, but interesting to go to and very beautiful and remote. Jenny Wheeler: I was lucky enough to go there many years ago now and I was amazed at how unpopulated it was. You could almost feel you had the place to yourself when I went. It was quite remarkable and beautiful. Lorrie Holmgren: Yes. It was like that too. We were the only people there. This was a remarkable experience. Interestingly, right after I was in college, I went to Europe with my friend, Susan and Stonehenge was like that then. You walked across the moor and you were the only person, and there was this little ticket-taking booth and you in your money and walked in. We were the only people there. It’s not like that anymore. Avebury Circle – magic place to visit Jenny Wheeler: In your book A Killing in the Cotswolds, Emily is visiting an old friend when she gets involved in investigating a rather bizarre murder of a prominent politician. There’s a subplot about a business that is set up to wreak revenge on others. If you’ve got some grievance with someone you could go to this place, Vindi Cat and you could pay these people to carry out some nasty jape or payback. Revenge as a story line It was a very interesting storyline, but I did wonder, how did you feel about that side of it yourself? Is it a service you would be tempted to use? Lorrie Holmgren: No, I wouldn’t myself. I see revenge and seeking revenge as pretty destructive. Focusing on your hurts and obsessing about them is not a good way to heal and move on. Revenge can be a vicious circle. In the novel, Emily’s boyfriend Jack, who is a physician, talks about the results of revenge he sees in the emergency room where there’ll be a gang shooting and a boy will come in who has been shot. Then the next night, there’s another boy in a rival gang who comes in because there’s been retribution. Nothing is ever solved by revenge and as Emily and Jack talk about Vindi Cat, they see some red flags and one is that Sophie has appointed herself judge and jury. She wants revenge not justice. She says there’s never going to be physical harm to anyone, but her revenge can be quite diabolical. It can ruin careers and reputations. I have to say it was kind of fun to write all that evil stuff. Warwick Castle – 1000 years of history and a ghost. Jenny Wheeler: The nasty trick they played on that chap where they locked him out of his hotel room and gave him a really bad time – that was a very imaginative little trick that you played there. Lorrie Holmgren: Yes. It was also fun to work in the theme of revenge and tie it into the Jacobean revenge tragedies and strange old myths like the witch that cursed Warwick Castle. I enjoyed the theme of revenge and pulling it throughout the novel. Jenny Wheeler: It was fun. In your second book, Homicide in Hawaii, events from the past influence what happens today and you had to delve into some of the Island’s history for that book. What was the most interesting thing you found as you were doing your research for that book? Homicide in Hawaii – Book #2 Lorrie Holmgren: In the novel, the woman who is the murder victim is a wealthy heiress and she is descended from the missionaries who came to Hawaii and got very rich in the sugar industry. They came to do good and did very well indeed, as the saying goes. She felt so guilty about her family’s past that she set up a trust that’s  crucial to the plot. I had to look into the history of Hawaii and find out why someone would have reason to feel bad about this. What I found was, when the new queen came to power in Hawaii, she decided she was going to rule herself instead of letting the group of sugar plantation owners do it. Now they were afraid this was going to lead to tariffs on sugar and they would lose money, so they asked for help from American troops and staged a coup. They locked up the queen and told her if she did not abdicate, they were going to execute 200 of her supporters. So, the monarchy ended and Hawaii became an American territory. In 1933 the U S Congress acknowledged that the overthrow of the Kingdom of Hawaii was illegal, so Amanda had good reason to think her fortune came at the expense of native Hawaiians and to want to make amends. That was a grim but interesting slice of history at the heart of the story, but all of Hawaii’s history that I looked up was interesting to me. Revisiting Hawaii’s history Homicide in Hawaii mystery I was fascinated by the myth of Pele, the goddess of the volcano, and the story of the replica of the sailing canoe that brought the Polynesians to Hawaii. Looking up all that kind of history is fun for me. I like working facts and history and myths into the story. Jenny Wheeler: In the very first book you have referred already to Madeline Island. Most people may not know where Madeline Island is. It’s near where you live, isn’t it, and you’ve described it as one of your favorite places in all of the world. Tell us about Madeline Island. Lorrie Holmgren: It’s not super close. It’s about six hours away from where I live, but it’s beautiful. Madeline Island is one of the Apostle islands in Lake Superior in Wisconsin, a neighboring state to Minneapolis and Minnesota. It is just a beautiful Northwoods area with birch and pine woods, big red rock cliffs, sandy beaches with icy cold, deep blue water. You have to take a ferry to get to the Island and that gives it a kind of a magical feeling – you’re isolated there and it’s wild and gorgeous. Two members of my writing group had places up on the Island so our group went up there to write and to critique each other’s work and we also, when we were there, started hiking in the state park. We went to Tom’s burnt down café, we did all the things my amateur sleuth Emily Swift does in the novel. It seemed like it would be a natural place to set that first novel and it was easy to write about, as I said before. Because I knew it so well, it was easy to describe. Jenny Wheeler: Why did you settle on the mystery genre when you began your writing? Were you always a big fan of mysteries? How did you get into the mystery side of it? Why Lorrie loves mysteries Lorrie Holmgren: I have been a fan of mysteries. I wanted to write the kind of book I’d like to read. From the time I was little and read Nancy Drew and Sherlock Holmes, I’ve loved them. I think it’s very satisfying to relax with a good story, a satisfying mystery. Justice is done, you know it’s going to be. There’s some humor and the characters are likable. I do belong to a book group and we discuss very serious literary novels, but I also like this kind of relaxation novel of something that’s amusing and fun. That’s what I wanted to write. Jenny Wheeler: You want to write something that’s entertaining. Lorrie Holmgren: Exactly. Jenny Wheeler: Tell us about your journey from that first step of joining a novelists class to getting yourself a publisher. I gather you’re published now by Cozy Cat Press, aren’t you? How did that come about? Lorrie Holmgren: It was not easy to find a publisher, to tell you the truth. Sadly, the barrier was the travel thing, which I thought was a wonderful idea myself, but the thing is it’s a cozy, in that it does not have explicit gory violence described, or graphic sex, and there isn’t a police officer who’s the main protagonist. That makes it a cozy and publishers have a very narrow view of what a cozy is sometimes. They think it has to be set in a small town and the character has to have a reliable circle of friends who are going to show up in every single book. That’s what readers expect. I thought that people really love to read books set in places they’ve gone to on vacation or wished they had gone to on vacation. I certainly do. I thought it was a good idea, but it turns out I was in a minority there. Luckily, Cozy Cat Press did decide they liked the book and they wanted it. Finding a Cozy publisher Jenny Wheeler: It’s interesting, isn’t it, how each of these little sub-genres has rules they tend to follow. I guess a lot of readers in their cozies do want that small town and the established group of friends every time, but it’s interesting how it can be quite a barrier to getting yourself out there. Lorrie Holmgren: Yes, it was sadly. But I did get it published, so I’m glad. Jenny Wheeler: Yes, that’s great. Moving away from the specific books to your wider career, tell us about a bit about your life before you became a fiction author, and how did those experiences influence what you’re doing today? Lorrie Holmgren: In my real career, I always was a writer. I worked as a staff writer and then communication director for the State Medical Association. In that role, I wrote speeches and news releases and articles, so I was used to writing. It was something I could do, it was a skill I had developed over many long years. I was there for a long time. The other thing that I think influenced my writing was the love of travel that developed from my very earliest childhood. When I was eight years old, my family lived in Milan and I fell in love with Italy. On weekends we would take the train and go to Switzerland or Lake Como or Venice, we visited art museums and castles. The joys of travel discovery I discovered, at a very early age, the joy that comes from living in a place that’s really different in language and food and general atmosphere. It was wonderful. From then on, I wanted to keep traveling. After college, I went with my friend Susan to Europe. At that time, you could live for $5 a day and we didn’t have any particular plan, but we had lots of wonderful experiences. I think that influenced my choice to write travel mysteries. Jenny Wheeler: It sounds like it. Have you done quite a lot of travel in your life since? Lorrie Holmgren: Not as much as we’d like, but my husband and I have gone to England a couple of times, and we’ve gone to France and Italy a couple of times. So yes, we have had wonderful trips. Jenny Wheeler: Great. Changing the pace a little bit, this is a fun question that popped up in Goodreads and I sometimes like to pop it in here. Is there a mystery in your own life that could be the plot line for a novel? Is there a mystery in your own life? Lorrie Holmgren: That is such an interesting question. I never had thought about that, but actually there is. My mother became very interested in learning more about our Irish heritage. Her dad was Irish. One day she went to downtown Chicago to do some research. I don’t know where exactly she went, maybe the Historical Society, but when she came home, she was badly shaken. She said very dramatically – she was a little dramatic – the veil must be drawn. I will never reveal what I found out today. Naturally we were just dying to know, but she never told us. She would not tell. When you asked that question, I thought, that could be the start of a story. Someone could be doing genealogical research and uncover a secret and have to go to Ireland to find out the truth. There might be horrible repercussions for people in the present day. In fact, that can be a plot line. Jenny Wheeler: Absolutely. You’ve never been tempted to go and do your own research on that? Loving the writing process Lorrie Holmgren: My sister and I talk about doing that all the time and we’ve never actually done it. I don’t know why. It’s always a plan, we’re going to do it, but we get caught up in doing other things and we haven’t. Jenny Wheeler: I understand one of my ancestors, also Irish, might have embezzled quite a lot of money and disappeared to the States. This is the 19th century. I’ve never tried to follow this through myself, but it’s a bit of a rumor in the family and I do wonder, is it true? Lorrie Holmgren: Maybe they were collaborators. Who knows? Jenny Wheeler: Is there one thing you’ve done in your writing career, more than any other, that you see as being the secret of your success? Lorrie Holmgren: Unfortunately, I haven’t found the secret yet. I’m happy with my books, I worked really hard on them and I did a lot of revising and editing. I think they are the sort of books I love to read, and my readers say kind things, but they are not widely known or widely read. I’m trying to do better at promoting them on social media, but it’s not something I’m particularly good at. So, I personally would love to know the secret to success. Defining ‘success’ as a writer Jenny Wheeler: I think even having a publisher and getting them out there is the first step anyway. I think probably just keep going. I’m afraid that people who listen to this podcast all the time might get bored to hear me repeat this, but there’s a very well-known romance writer called Stephanie Lawrence and she famously says to starting out writers, don’t expect to get anywhere until you’ve got at least six books published and possibly as many as 10 or 12. Lorrie Holmgren: Oh my goodness. Jenny Wheeler: It might be just a case of keeping on going. Lorrie Holmgren: That’s true, and I enjoy writing them, so that’s fine. Jenny Wheeler: What about the worst advice you might have received or heard others offer to beginning writers? Lorrie Holmgren: Actually, I’ve been really lucky. All the advice I received was good. I went to an excellent mystery writing conference put on by the Loft when I was starting out. I took classes by William Kent Krueger, Vince Flynn Erin Hart and others. I learned a lot from these really excellent writers. That was very good. Best and worst advice to writers I told you already about Will Weaver and my professor in college, Mildred Walker, who was a novelist. All of the people who gave me advice, I would have to say, were very helpful and very good. Jenny Wheeler: That’s fantastic. Give us an idea of the timeframe from when you first started studying how to be a writer to today. How long is that? Lorrie Holmgren: I’m going to just throw out ten years. I’m not sure that’s exactly right, but I think I’ve been writing for ten years. Christopher Valen – police procedurals Jenny Wheeler: I guess the point I’m making is that there’s not really anything like instant success, is there? Not for most people anyway. Lorrie Holmgren: No, I haven’t found instant success. Jenny Wheeler: Networking with other writers is very important to you? Lorrie Holmgren: Yes, it really is because I think you need feedback from other people to find out if you’ve made clear what you’re trying to make clear. If people are able to visualize what you’ve described and if they understand the characters, and my group is very helpful, they come up with good ideas. Jenny Wheeler: Are you all writing in the same genre? Lorrie Holmgren: No. Christopher Valen is a very successful mystery writer now, but he does write more of a police procedural. They’re very interesting, very good books. He has about six of them out right now. Abby Davis has written a historical novel and Linda Donaldson is a poet. A couple of the original members of the group, one who wrote legal satires, have passed away. It’s a small group now, we have dwindled, but they’re still very good. What Lorrie like to read Jenny Wheeler: Turning to Lorrie as reader, because this is The Joys of Binge Reading and it is about those sorts of books you were saying you like to write, the ones people read for entertainment and that they can binge read. They don’t have to exert too much intellectual power to be able to enjoy them. Patricia Wentworth’s Miss Silver series a favourite Tell us about your taste in binge reading fiction, and have you got a couple of recommendations for current series that people might be interested in reading? Lorrie Holmgren: I just discovered a golden age British mystery writer in the Agatha Christie tradition, who I had never heard of before. I have been bingeing on her books. Patricia Wentworth’s Miss Silver mysteries. They feature an elderly, private detective who I find absolutely delightful. She has written lots and lots of books, so I am not going to run out of them in a hurry. A modern author I really enjoy is Katherine Hall Page and she’s written a number of books. Because her amateur sleuth is such a likable woman, someone you’d want for a friend, you feel like you know her, and so when she’s caught up in mysteries, they’re very believable, very well written. I love those. Another favorite of mine is Martin Walker, and I know you’ve interviewed him on your show. I love his Inspector Bruno series. That’s partly because of his marvelous descriptions of the Périgord region in France – the caves and the history and the French food and wine. My husband and I stayed in the Périgord a few years ago and visited those caves and canoed down the Dordogne accompanied by this fleet of swans. It was a magical experience. Walker’s novels bring this all back and I just love them. Perigord markets Jenny Wheeler: He’s really into food and that does remind me that in A Killing in the Cotswolds there are quite a few references to lovely English food – afternoon teas and things. You probably share that in common, do you? Delights of English teatime Lorrie Holmgren: Oh, yes. My heroine, Emily, tried to track down the very best teatime. Of course, she didn’t, because she loved them all. I feel that way myself. They were just marvelous. Jenny Wheeler: It’s interesting to hear an American appreciate tea too. Lorrie Holmgren: I love teatime. I always have it at home too. Jenny Wheeler: That’s interesting. We’re starting to come to the end of our time together, so looking back over this last decade, how long ago did you go to full-time writing? Lorrie Holmgren: It was about ten years ago because that’s when I retired. Before that I had a very busy job and didn’t have time to write novels. Jenny Wheeler: So looking back over that ten years you’ve been writing, if you were doing it all again, is there anything you would change and if so, what would it be? English teatime – places to try Lorrie Holmgren: I can’t think of anything I would change in the past ten years. I’ve really enjoyed having the opportunity to write and to devote myself to that and to travel. If I looked back over my whole life and said, what was I going to change, I still don’t think I’d change anything, but I’m always curious about the road you didn’t take. When I was leaving college, my advisor Mildred Walker said I should possibly go to the Iowa Writing School and see if I could become a serious writer. I didn’t feel ready to do that so instead I went to Europe with my friend Susan, and I wouldn’t have missed that for anything. Wonderful time. But I think it would be great if life could be kind of a choose your own adventure and you could do one path and then go back and go down the other path. I sometimes think writers create their characters so they can kind of vicariously live out other choices, other realities, that they’re not really part of when you feel one life is just not enough. Looking back over the journey Jenny Wheeler: It’s interesting you say that because I know a couple of years ago one of the books that won an award in Amazon had exactly that as a plot line. People had the opportunity to change just one thing in their life and then the story was about how that made a difference to the whole picture. It’s quite a fascinating idea, isn’t it? Lorrie Holmgren: It is, yes. Jenny Wheeler: What was that writing school you mentioned? I don’t know if I’ve heard of it before. Lorrie Holmgren: The Iowa Writing School. Jenny Wheeler: Oh, yes. Is that a university-based program? Lorrie Holmgren: I think it is. I did not look into it, but famous writers very often will say they came out of the Iowa School. Jenny Wheeler: It says something that your lecturer recognized that talent in you right back then. Lorrie Holmgren: Well, she only said maybe. She said, I think, but you never know. Jenny Wheeler: What is next for Lorrie as writer? What projects have you got under development at the moment? Lorrie Holmgren: I have an idea for a fourth travel mystery, but I’m kind of stymied by the pandemic. Ideally, I would be in France right now. I’d be in Paris and the Loire Valley, doing research for the novel I was thinking of writing. But I’m not. I’m here and I’m likely to stay here until they find a vaccine for it. So that’s not good. I’m not writing a novel right now. I’m trying to focus on getting some publicity for the books I already have written, and I’m working on a little short story, just for fun, not anything serious. The complications of Covid Jenny Wheeler: Maybe the idea is to find another locally based story in the States, although even traveling around the States is probably a bit tentative at this stage. Lorrie Holmgren: It is, that’s the problem. I would love to go up North, up to Madeline Island or up to the North Shore, but even that is not safe because you can’t do it in one day. Jenny Wheeler: Do you enjoy making contact with your readers and if so, how can they find you online? Lorrie Holmgren: Yes, I love to make contact with my readers.  I have gone to talk to writers groups and I enjoy doing that. I enjoy hearing their feedback and seeing people in person. On social media I have a website it’s www.lorrieholmgren.com and you can find lots of photos of the places I’ve been and places in the novel, which is fun, I think. Finding Lorrie online I’m on Facebook as Lorrie Holmgren Author and on Twitter and Pinterest. My books are for sale in print and Kindle on Amazon and Amazon UK. Lorrie is L O R R I E. Sometimes it’s hard to find someone with an oddly spelled Lorrie, but that’s me. Jenny Wheeler: It’s a funny coincidence, but I’ve interviewed another writer called Lori just last week. You are the first two ‘Loris’ I’ve ever met and just happened to be in the same couple of weeks. Her name was spelled L O R I, slightly different from yours. We will have the links to all those references – your social media, your books, your website – all of those will be in the links for the show notes for this episode which will be permanently online so people who are interested in tracking down those links and don’t write them down right now while we’re talking, you can go to the website, thejoysofbingereading.com and it will be published in a couple of weeks. Lorrie, it’s been wonderful talking. Thank you so much for taking part today and all the very best for the future. Lorrie Holmgren: Thank you so much for having me. I really enjoyed talking to you and I’ve enjoyed listening to your podcast too. It’s such a good show. Jenny Wheeler: Thanks so much. Certainly, during lockdown, it was my one source of social interaction. It was really quite fun. We had a lockdown here in New Zealand in May/June I think it was, and we have just come out of a second one, but the second one was slightly less severe. The first one was quite severe and having the podcast every week kept me entertained and sane. Thanks a lot. Lorrie Holmgren: Thank you. If you enjoyed Lorrie Holmgren’s Emily Swift travel mysteries why not try Martin Walker’s Bruno Perigord police chief, one of our most popular podcasts…. LISTEN HERE Thanks To Our Technical Support: The Joys of Binge Reading podcast is put together with wonderful technical help from Dan Cotton at DC Audio Services. Dan is an experienced sound and video engineer who’s ready and available to help you with your next project… Seek him out at [email protected] or Phone + 64 – 21979539. He’s fast, takes pride in getting it right, and lovely to work with. Our voice overs are done by Abe Raffills, and Abe’s another gem. He got 20 years of experience on both sides of the camera/microphone as a cameraman/director and also voice artist and television presenter. 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