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Featuring a haunting original score and spatial Dobie Atmos sound design, Bram Stoker's Dracula invites you to feel the terror of being hunted and the thrill of the hunt. Now on Audible, listen to the darkness. Go to audible.ca slash listen to Dracula. Hey, weirdos. I am Ash. And I am Alena. And this, this right here, is morbid.
Sorry that this part two is not like right after the part one. Usually we try to do that. It's just been like a crazy week, but it's always a crazy week up in these parts. It truly is. But also, this is like also my fault because I just got way more invested in this case than I had originally planned. And I didn't want to give, I know you guys like, which I love you for it. You're always like, don't apologize for more. And trust me, I appreciate that. And I love that so much. She needs to hear that. I need to hear that. But because I've been giving you a lot of multi-parters, I was like, you know what? I want to wrap this up in two. Also because he's real gross. So I just wanted to like, okay, on to the next. I want to do a spooky lighthouse series. I feel like we haven't done one in a while and people really dug that.
Can we do one next week after my episode? Yes. Cool. Okay, cool. That's what we're doing. We were going to do something completely different. And then in that moment, I was like, wait a second. I kind of want spooky. Because you guys have also been sending us some. Like our mailbox is full of them. And I'm very excited to dig into those. So that would be fun to do, I think. Cool. But it's funny because I hit record like early because I was like, you know what? We got to like get this on air. I know. Because we were just having like a very in-depth, very deep conversation. Yeah, like so deep. I think it's because there's been so much like negativity in the world lately. But I'm sure everybody feels this way. It makes you think about like.
shit life like how you've approached negativity in your life and like social media can be like so fucking damaging and toxic and it can be so great that's the thing there's a it's a very double-edged sword and we were just talking about it because uh when when you you know when you become a parent or when you're taking care of any little being and they become involved with like friends and other families and such all of a sudden you're now seeing that your kids are getting exposed to other belief systems yeah And that's something you don't really, I think you don't, at least me, I didn't think about it too much in depth until they became that age where they were starting to be like, hang out with other families and like, you know, kids talk and what they believe and what, and you want to make sure your kid is like open-minded and not shutting other people's belief systems down. And so we were just talking about it, how important it is. And that like, it would be so nice if everybody would just let people care about what they care about as if it's like a harmless thing, you know, like I'm not, I'm not religious. Right. I don't believe in a lot of things. Yeah. And I teach my kids to be very open-minded.
and believe what they want, what speaks to them. Right. And also telling them, you know, like the important stuff, like you never discriminate against someone for how they look, how they talk, how they dress, where they come from, what they're wearing, like nothing. We include everybody. But it's like, I feel like we were, it got really deep when we started looking back. Cause I was like, you know what? I just feel like I've been in a vibe lately, like in the last year or so, especially where I just have finally seen how negativity begets negativity. And it never really made sense to me before. I was always like, okay, like woohoo. That doesn't, no. It's almost like the secret. It's almost like I would say, like I'm.
I don't know about that, but like, so I'm not going to like shit on it. It's funny that you and I, I feel like we like believe in a lot of the same things, but I feel like in this discussion, I'm realizing that we also have completely differing beliefs too. It's true. We do. But also look at how well we get along and we're like, we're, we consider each other sisters. Like we are related. And it's like, we can sit here and just like chat about it and be like, well, here's what I think. And you say, well, here's what I think. And we're like, huh. And I never feel like judged by you for believing what I believe. Exactly. I hope vice versa. No, never. And it just kind of makes you think. And I think I was looking back and I was like, wow, like.
Being a negative, angry person and coming back at people and just being angry in general. When people try to wind you up and stuff. Because when we first started this podcast, it was hard. No matter what. Note to creators. That just comes with the territory. There are just angry people in the world. That's just their job. Trolls are going to troll. We saw back in the Oscythe Witch Trials that trolls existed even back then. Exactly. It's always been around. Before social media, it's just more prevalent now. It'll be around forever. But it's like if you're a creator and you're getting trolled and it's...
bothering you like i'm sorry and that sucks because everybody's been through it but my one piece of advice is like i was just because i was just thinking about it when we got in this conversation was like if you just let people be angry and just let them do their thing they got to get something out that they want to get out maybe it makes them feel better probably doesn't because like i said being a negative toxic person only really brings toxicity into your life and i was thinking about how like even like in high school and shit when i was angry and like kissing and moaning at people and like coming back at people and like you know you're like just being a shitty person it's like because you're angry because people you feel are being shitty to you and it's like you look back and you're like what was like i got nothing yeah i got none of it except being angry and then when you just start being like fuck it just let people be who they are like whatever you go over there it really does like totally i'm like the happiest i've ever been by not engaging in any kind of negativity i just i'm like i'm gonna lift up people i love and who i respect yeah And I, that's been the most fun thing that we've been able to do since like the, since the podcast has become more visible. Absolutely. It's been really fun to lift other creators up that we can. And like people have been so sweet and kind and it like really shows how it just like positivity brings positivity. It definitely does. It just feels good. I think one of my biggest philosophies in life, two of my biggest philosophies, and honestly always really have been live and let live. Yeah. Like I'm living. I'm going to let you live. Yeah. I don't really care. Like if, you know, like, you know what I mean? If I don't like you, I don't like you. I'm not, but I'm going to let you be. I just want to engage because I just don't need toxic stuff in my life. But it's just been like a very.
Nice experience to like grow as a human being. And I think you're right. I do think, I mean, I'm still like definitely very young, but I do think the closer to 30 you get, the more okay you get like with yourself and the more you realize that like, and I think that's a big part of like live and let live is being content with yourself. Yeah. And I feel like that's, that's at least been my experience. It might not be that way for everybody. I don't want to like generalize to everybody, but I feel like I hit 30.
And it just started on that path, at least, which is wild to think about. Like, my entire 20s, I, like, didn't like me. Yeah. And it's like, but then I hit 30 and I was like, okay, I'm cool with me. But it's really, like, mid-30s that I'm like, oh, I am vibing. Because now you're just, like, in it. Like, maybe, like, when you first turned 30, you were starting to really accept yourself. It takes a long time. And then I also think, especially in more recent years, you've just let yourself be yourself unapologetically. It's true. And it's a great thing. I hope everybody gets to experience it. Because I do definitely feel like, for me, like, I can be myself around the people that I love. But I do find myself kind of, like, like...
putting the pot or putting the lid on the pot a little bit around other people a little bit yeah and i felt that way too i went through a long period of time doing that yes you i'm telling you when you get to the point where it's just like look yeah you're happier and i love that we're like having this philosophical discussion for seven minutes but you know what we haven't done this in a while so i just wanted to we were having like a very nice conversation and we didn't want to which is just funny we're like i don't want to keep this from everybody yeah everybody should be involved in this fun conversation that we're having that's very deep and meaningful we were like what do you guys feel good so you know what if you're feeling like you're in a toxic place and you're engaging in a lot of toxicity. Disengage. I'm telling you. Meredith marks it. I know it feels like that's that sounds like very trite to say that like just disengage and you'll feel better. It's true. I'm telling you, man, like it feels good. I feel good just like lifting people I love up and leaving the rest.
to the wayside it's like i've been saying it a lot lately and this i'm actually glad this came up because i don't think i gave credit to the person where i got this from i don't receive that from elise is it elise meyers yes on tiktok another person who you're like see you got it they do it right yeah like she's just doing it right and she has new merch coming out that says i don't receive that and i'm probably gonna buy like all of them 100 because watching that video i'm gonna share that video later today i don't receive that i don't receive that it will change your whole ass mindset it will just don't receive it like i and honestly there's been like things that happened this week that i literally should have just been like i don't receive that yeah or there's things that did happen to me like recently that i was like no i don't receive it just like you get better people around you i feel like it's just like all angry people want is for you to engage with them and validate their anger so don't do it let's just finish this off with a good home doesn't that mean like the light in me recognizes the light in you or is that namaste that's namaste namaste as well yeah namaste fuck yeah so anyways so now we're gonna get our little discussion about like you know i hope everybody's doing well and you know what i feel great and i hope you feel great you know that that actually made me feel very like yeah and i hope honestly i hope we get to have these like cool discussions with you guys like
more like and like hopefully we can do like a live show at some point just like sit and chat yeah about like just talk just like you guys feel negatively let's chat about it what do you feel we're just gonna become like you're like but it's really it feels good so we just want to tell you that because it was a fun conversation we were having and kids are wild kids are wild it's a real experience just my whole philosophy with it is just i'm gonna tell them people can believe whatever they want to believe and so can you yeah and that's just be kind to each other It's all that matters. It really is. Because I'm hoping to save them from that little like string of time where you're just like a negative motherfucker by just like constantly telling them that like, I know you're going to be, it feels like it's a natural progression that you just turn into a negative motherfucker for a little while. I mean, hormones might not be on your side with that one. But I just want to be like, I'm telling you. But maybe they'll come to you after their little outbursts. Yeah. Sorry, you were right. And I'll be like, yes, I am. Yeah. I love those words. But here we go. We just talked about that for like 10 minutes. Hope you guys felt good about it. Here we are. I'll put a little marker on the show notes so that people can skip it if they feel like it.
We get you. We get it. If you want to listen, you can. We're going to live and we're going to let you live. And if part of your living is that you don't want to hear us talk about our living, then you know what? Fast forward to about, I would say like 1140. Yeah, there you go. I'll put it in the show notes. Namaste to you. Namaste. I recognize your light. So here we are. Part two of this horrific case. We are talking about Matthew Hoffman, the leaf killer. Yes. It's gnarly.
Luckily, we have a truly brave survivor in all of this, in Sarah Maynard. So that's a light in the end of the tunnel, but it gets a little bleak. So we're going to get into it. So back to November 11th, where we left off in part one. After Valerie Haythorn had called 911 to report that after several wellness checks, no one had heard from her friend Tina Herman, Tina's friend Stephanie Sprang, and Tina's children Sarah and Cody Maynard. And they had broken in to find a bloodbath, but no bodies in Tina's home. Police had finally come to the scene at this point. So Sergeant Tom Durbin and Sergeant Al Dexter were the first ones on scene. And they were astounded and a little confused by the massive amounts of blood in this home.
Because at this point, remember from part one, when I began the story, Hoffman had moved Sarah and the bodies into Stephanie's Jeep after the murders. After he had left her on that kitchen floor forever with a blindfold on, gagged bound. She has no idea what's happening. She's hearing crazy noises in the bathroom. And what was happening was he was dismembering her family members. This poor girl. Yeah. He had then disposed of the bodies and also moved Sarah into his Yaris, his Toyota Yaris, back to his home.
So then he had driven the Jeep back to Tina Herman's home after buying big blue heavy-duty tarps and garbage bags at Walmart. And he tried to get gas, and he had gotten gas, but he had tried to bring it back to burn the place down so he could get rid of all the evidence. But he had been having trouble with Tina's pickup truck, and he had abandoned it in a parking lot halfway through the whole process. So he had left the Jeep, the tarp, and the bags in Tina's garage. And he had gone home to take a nap. And it's so crazy to me that during one of the wellness checks, that pickup truck was just parked out there, and he was inside doing all of this. And they had no idea. No idea.
They just thought it was normal because it was her pickup drive. Of course. So now the sergeants saw all the blood in Stephanie's Jeep, but the Jeep is parked in the driveway and again, no bodies. So they're seeing all this blood, tissue, horrific stuff going, not a body to be found. Right. Which is like, what the fuck? How many people were in here? So the sergeants called Detective David Light and Detective Roger Brown. They came on scene and they also found Greg Borders, who was Tina's boyfriend at the time. But apparently, according to Greg, they had actually agreed to separate already, but they were living together until Tina found somewhere to move out. Okay. So like a strange partner. Exactly. And he said, he was like,
Of course it was weird living together after we had broken up. Yeah. Of course we got into some arguments. He was like, nothing was ever violent or physical or over the top. Just we were not super psyched to having to be in the same house for too long after breaking up. It's just awkward. Of course it is. I can't imagine. So Tina's boyfriend, Greg, showed our ex-boyfriend at this point, showed up as this was happening. And he came because he had been working the evening of the murders. And then he had stayed with a friend the night before. And he had been golfing the whole day. So he had only just shown up to this house. And he showed up because a family member called him and was like, um.
there's a massive police presence at your house and like police tape and shit. And he was like, what? So he ran home. So they immediately check him. They're like, where were you? He told them the whole story that the day before when the murders had occurred, that he, well, what they didn't know was murders at the time, but they assumed somebody was probably in grave danger here. But he had told them, you know, I left the house at 4am, went to work. I stayed with a friend last night. We went golfing all day. That's.
That's my entire timeline. He also must have been freaking terrified because they are breaking up. Like they were pretty much broken up at this point. So, of course, he's like, they're going to look at me right away. Of course. And he's like, who the fuck came into my house while I was gone? Like, what happened? Yeah. So they checked him physically for any defensive injuries immediately. Noted there was absolutely nothing. Not a scratch on him. Good. And then he immediately told them, you have my full permission to search this house. Great. So they were like, OK.
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Now, as this is happening, as they're going into the house now, Matthew Hoffman has no idea that the cops have descended upon Tina's home. Did you not think that somebody was going to report one, two, three, four people missing? No, that's the thing. He thought he was on track here. Yeah, he did not. He thought he had this foolproof plan. And boy, he did not. Of course. So he's now determined to burn this house down to get rid of everything. So after taking a little nap.
He secured, I think he like tied Sarah up again, made sure that she couldn't go anywhere. And he leaves to go to Tina's truck in that parking lot to go get those gas cans and bring them back to the house. So as he's pulling into the lot, this is after dark, sometime after 6 p.m., a cop stops him. You're shitting me. A cop stopped him as Sarah was tied up in his home and he had just committed three brutal murders and was trying to get gas cans to burn down the home and the evidence. So the cop, who is Deputy Aaron Phillips, stops him because that particular parking lot is closed after dark. And he was like, you can't go in there. So it was very innocuous what he was stopping him for. So the cop is like, what are you doing here? Like, what are you trying to pull into that parking lot for? And he says, oh, I'm waiting for my girlfriend Sarah to get off work. Stop. Sarah, stop. My girlfriend.
So tell me he didn't intentionally target that house to get Sarah. Of course he did. Tell me. He also told them he didn't know. So they were like, Sarah, what is your girlfriend's last name? And he said, I don't know her last name because we just started dating. What the actual fuck? Yep.
And I'm sorry, how old is he? He is 30. And she is 14. 13. Yep. Wow. 13. Oh, my God. Now, Deputy Phillips also reported Tina's truck in that parking lot, like, called the deputies and was like, I found her truck, by the way. And that comes in to help later, like, connect all this. Obviously, in the sense that now they're actually able to process the vehicle. Yeah. But it actually helps catch him later. Like, it actually comes into it. Okay. I mean, that makes sense. It does. It was, like, such a weird little thing. These guys, a lot of them get, like, we got Ted Bundy. We got Ed Kemper. They get, like, pulled over as everything's going on and somehow slip through. Creeps me out.
So the cop had no idea Sarah Maynard was missing at this point. So he told Hoffman the parking lot was closed and then just sent him on his way. Yeah. I mean, what else was he going to do? So he went back to his home and he moved Sarah now down to his pitch black basement onto a bed made of thousands of leaves. No. Yeah. She said about this, quote, he would come down there sometimes and just stand there and stare at me. What the fuck? He didn't say a word, just stared.
And then he would go back upstairs. I don't know which was worse, him not saying anything or him saying something. I couldn't figure out what he wanted when he didn't say anything. It was hard to tell what he was thinking that way. Mostly I just laid alone in the dark. And even though there were blankets and stuff that he put there, it was always so cold. At least it was better than lying on the floor of the bathroom where he first kept me. That was not only cold, it was hard too. She's 13. To have experience to that and then be able to talk about it. Yeah.
Wow. And she really does a lot with it later and we'll get into it. But no, just like speaking of because now we're hearing more about leaves. Remember, his entire house is covered in leaves from floor to ceiling. Leaves on every single wall, every single surface leaves. And I'm assuming he must have had to put that together pretty quickly because his girlfriend didn't say anything about that. Exactly. Because as we're going to find out that whole strangling incident with her, the domestic violence incident that she didn't end up pressing charges for just because she wanted to get away from him. Of course. That happened 17 days before this. And there was no leaves. And no leaves were mentioned. OK. So I assume he.
I assume they weren't there because I can't find anything that her saying, yes, we lived in a house full of leaves. And I think she would have brought that up because she was starting to talk about how his behavior was becoming more and more bizarre and affecting her kids. So I think that would have been a thing. And it kind of makes sense to me that he just snapped after that. And it was that was where this came from. Gathering leaves. But I did read an article. It was on ABC News. And they talked to Dr. NG Barrel, who is the director of New York Center for Neuropsychology and Forensic Behavioral Science. And he said about this whole.
leave situation he said it certainly suggests that he is likely to be mentally ill mentally ill as compared to other killers who show up in the news like serial killers or psychopaths serial killers from professional point of view they are not mentally ill they have character disturbances but they know what they're doing is wrong they take too much pleasure too much gratification to stop and then he said it would take talking to him to find out what that means the whole leaves thing but he said hoffman's delusions are very elaborate delusions related to trees what trees produce being in and around trees and putting people in trees okay i He knew what he was doing was wrong, in my opinion, for sure. I think so. I think he is on that level with other serial killers where he has character disturbances. Yeah. And there's some issues going on there. But I don't think it took him out of knowing what he was doing was wrong. And in fact, he comes right out and says, I knew I did something wrong. Well, there you go. So it's like, I understand why that would be a thing where it's like he does come off as like mentally ill. But I'm not going to sit here and diagnose him. I have no idea what he has. Well, you can be mentally ill and still know right from wrong. Exactly. There's varying degrees of that. So it's like he was never officially diagnosed that I could find with anything.
But who knows? Now, at this point, he had started actually, and trigger warning, he had started sexually assaulting Sarah. Oh, God. Who, remember, was 13 years old at the time, and he is 30. Yeah. Now, he also, at one point, handed her a dictionary, told her to look up the word ransom and read what it said. Okay. And then he was like, I'll try to let you go before Christmas. What? Yeah. And he had told her, at some point, I'm going to let you escape, and then I'll escape, and we'll go our separate ways. Okay. And she was like, yeah, no.
He also continued telling her that someone else was watching her from outside the house. So whenever he left, he was like, don't make a sound because they'll report back to me. Oh, that's so scary. And she believed him, of course. Well, because he proved that one time when she tried to take a peek, he was like, I told you not to do that. Exactly. And he was like, told you I was going to be watching you. So she's like, OK, I know he's a piece of shit, but apparently he's telling me the truth about that. Yeah, and she's just trying not to get killed here. Yeah. Now, Special Agent Gary Wilgus was the blood spatter specialist that was brought onto the scene at Tina Herman's house. And he had a lot to process. I really recommend you go read that The Girl in the Leaves book, which again, I'm going to link one more time in this part.
The detail that's in that book about this scene and what the different spatters mean and everything is really, really fascinating and very in-depth. So I really want you to go there and read it because they compiled a lot of... really interesting information about it. But what I will say is he found boot prints in a lot of the blood and was able to actually cut some of the carpet and vinyl floor in the bathroom that had like a perfect boot print in it. Oh, wow. And they used it as evidence. And I guess it was a distinctive pattern on the bottom of the shoe. And more startling than this, they found a second set of shoe prints on the floor. And at first they were like, is this a second killer? Yeah. And it was from an air walk and they were a size about seven and a half. And when they looked in each closet, at first they weren't finding anything to match that. And then they went to Sarah's closet and they found that she only had seven and a half size shoes. Okay. So now they're like,
oh shit, she walked through the blood. Right. Which means she was walking around after this happened. So somebody has her, they could assume. Exactly. And what they said in the report was due to the impressions being in the oil-like substance, it was believed that the wearer of the shoes was upright and walking through the crime scene, stepped in the oil, and then walked onto the linoleum floor. And these...
prince led to the garage and this was a big deal because they were like oh shit like she's gone she walked out to the garage so where the fuck is she now right now detectives noted the tarp and garage bags in the garage bags garbage bags in the garage and they were in walmart bags okay so they looked like they were newly purchased and immediately they're like all right we got to track this purchase cool let's go to every walmart near here because there was also like a ton of cleaning stuff around that was like laying out that was clearly used to try to clean up the crime scene there was like you know bleach and all this other stuff and there was several um i think there was one or two things of uh gloves that were used that he'd left behind okay so there was a lot of evidence that this person had tried to do something with that crime scene. So they figured, obviously, this guy went out, bought more stuff and came back and used some of it because the garbage bags were also open. Right. So they were like, OK, so we got to figure out where this came from. Now, at some point, so they were off to do that. Now, at some point, neighbors of Stephanie's boyfriend, Stephanie Sprang, her boyfriend actually called police and said, we have a tip. And they were like, what? OK. So they said her boyfriend, Ron Metcalf, had actually dug a hole recently in their backyard. Oh, man. So they followed up and Ron was like, yes, I did.
But it's because my kid's pet rabbit died and I buried it in a cardboard box in the backyard. It's actually very wholesome. Very wholesome and sad. They dug it up. It was a rabbit in a box. But, you know, people, of course, I mean, you saw a hole in your backyard and then your girlfriend goes missing. Exactly. You know, you got to check up on it. So they did interview Ron anyways, because they had to. And he was very cooperative, according to all accounts. He had an alibi. He said, you know, their relationship was good. It was healthy. He said he'd returned home from work that day that they went missing.
And he was actually weirded out immediately that Stephanie wasn't home yet because it was about four o'clock, I think it was, in the afternoon. And he said he knew that day she was planning to look at an apartment with Tina to help her out. Right. But he said, quote, she was always there to greet her kids when they got off the school bus. And he texted her, what's up? Because he was confused. And that's when he didn't get the answer. That's when he connected with Valerie. OK. And they hooked up and were like, I can't get a hold of her either. Right. So actually, Stephanie's son, Michael, and her daughter, Trisha, were in a state of panic at this point. They were a little older.
they were never contacted by law enforcement either. Oh, wow. And they were like kind of livid about that. I don't blame them. Obviously, there's like several ways to look at that, that it's like this is all just starting, but it's like they are like the next of, you know what I mean? Like you should contact them and at least tell them that she's missing. But I don't know the ins and outs of that, of how it went, but they were like, they found out through like a grapevine a little bit. That's awful. Now, Greg, Greg, the boyfriend or ex-boyfriend at this point of Tina, and Larry Maynard, who was Sarah and Cody's father, were interviewed by police to determine if they had any involvement, because of course we have to rule out.
The boyfriends, husbands, ex-husbands, ex-boyfriends. You got to go for those first. Now, Larry actually wasn't contacted by any law enforcement either at first, which is weird just because he's the kid's father. Yeah. Like I know they're not together, but he was contacted by Greg Borders and only found all this out because of him. Oh, wow. Now, Greg admitted again that the relationship had not been great recently, but he had that alibi. And despite Greg being cooperative and giving permission for them to search the home, cops were like really zeroing in on him at first, which I get.
It's the most likely scenario when you really look at it generally. But you're like, he did all that and doesn't have a scratch on him. And it's like he really had nothing to do with it. Yeah. And it makes sense. You know, he was living in the house, that relationship thing. But...
His punch cards were confirmed the day that he was at work. People at work were like, yep, I worked with him. And they spoke to one of his co-workers at the Target Distribution Center named Patrick Sandy. Patrick was the friend he was with on November 10th and 11th. He confirmed the entire story Greg had given about staying at his home and then going golfing the next day. He said the only reason he stayed the night was because we were really far away from the golf course and it just made sense. And he also had reservations at the course that were confirmed that they both showed up and they made it. So he was like...
This is like trail airtight, literally airtight. It's nobody's word against anybody. Now, the search for the missing three people were was massive. There was hundreds of people on foot. There were volunteers. There were searchers on ATVs and shit. There was infrared planes and helicopters flying in the air. Wow. There were boats and divers looking in lakes and ponds around the area. It was like all hands on deck. Now, police contacted the Walmart located in Mount Vernon on November 13th, and they had a jackpot. They found out that the tarp and garbage bags were bought there. The receipts showed it was bought after midnight on November 11th. But the person used cash. Damn it.
they went down there and luckily the security manager, Jared Scholes, gave them the tape from that evening. And so they were trying to compare it and they found him. Yes. There was Matthew Hoffman. They didn't know his name, of course, yet. On that tape, wearing a camouflage shirt and buying like those items. Exactly. And also buying a Halloween shirt. Unreal. Why did you? Oh, do we get an explanation? He mentions why. And it's just very like when you hear it, you're like, yeah. Okay. That's who you are. Okay. So and then they saw him in the parking lot. They were able to follow him getting into a silver Toyota Yaris. So they just looked up all owners of silver Toyota Yaris is in the area.
They come up with a picture, a license photo that looks exactly like the guy on tape. He was also wearing the camo shirt in his license photo. Oh, wow. Yeah. And he had renewed his license like very recently. Oh, my goodness. So this was just like kind of like a perfect wave. Fell right into place. And I have to say, and I'll say it again later, but the police and detective work on this case was chef's kiss. Chef's kiss. They were on this shit. Like and everybody, every all the victims, families, everybody involved credits them with like.
phenomenal work oh wow great they really it's one of those cases that you're like ah there you are doing your job like i appreciate that it's nice to see so they also were able to connect to this whole like you know the toyota yaris this whole thing with deputy phillips's discovery of the truck that night okay the one that stopped him before he was able to enter the parking lot oh i meant to ask so they must not have ran the plates that night no okay and that's the thing so they they'd actually run his plates and they'd run his license but that's the thing it just came up as matthew hoffman he said i live at that that address he didn't have any record of like yeah that they could arrest him. Like, there was no warrants out for him. But they didn't see that the truck was hers? No, they didn't. He wasn't in the truck. He was in his car when he got pulled out. Oh, okay. He was about to enter. I'm sorry if that wasn't clear. He was about to enter the parking lot to get the gas cans out of the truck and bring it back to the house. But he wasn't able to get into that truck. That's why they were able to...
Deputy Phillips was able to call in the truck and say, oh, look, the truck is there. Okay. So now it's starting to get pieced together. Exactly. And that's why when he was like, what are you doing here in this parking lot? He was like, nothing with that truck. Nothing with that truck, that's for sure. And it didn't connect at first until now. Okay. So now they have Deputy Phillips who had run his license that night, but nothing was out of the ordinary. Him and his Yaris. Him and his Yaris. But they said, so he's now able to say, oh, Matthew Hoffman, who you were trying to compare to this, I pulled over a Matthew Hoffman in a silver Yaris. And he was attempting to enter that parking lot where that truck was. Crazy. Oh, and also he said he was waiting for his girlfriend, Sarah.
And oh, that's the girl that's missing right now? Like, this is all adding up now. So they also found now they were able to connect back to his record of domestic violence from the strangling of his ex-girlfriend. Oh, yeah. Shit is not looking great. So off they went to get a search warrant for Matthew Hoffman's home. Oh, my God. Now, Deputy Phillips said...
Because like, obviously you're hearing this and it's like everything is just falling into place. Deputy Phillips said when this all happened, he said when the detectives got that information about Matthew Hoffman, it was like Ohio State University just scored the winning touchdown. Guys were yelling and jumping up and down, grabbing gear, just sprinting out the front door. So these guys were like really dedicated. They were like committed to this case. And when they found all this out, they were like, fuck yeah, let's go get him. Let's get Sarah. Let's find these people. Let's fucking go. At this point, they thought they could find everybody because they had no, they knew something bad happened in that house. And I know for a fact that all of them, most of them were probably sitting here saying, with all this blood.
everybody isn't going to be found alive. Of course. But I don't think they knew the extent of what had happened. So now they start watching Matthew Hoffman's house at 49 Columbus Road. They went off to get confirmation that he was still living there because he had also told Deputy Phillips that his mom lived in like Apple Valley where the Hermans lived. So they wanted to make sure he was at this address and they weren't just going to like bang down the door of a random house, which like, thank you police officers for doing that because sometimes that's not always the case. He was just battering ram down a door. Yeah. So.
They ended up talking to his ex-girlfriend who had actually been strangled by him 17 days earlier. And she said, yes, he's currently living there at 49 Columbus Road. That poor woman to find out that all this happened. She's probably like, thank God I got out of that house with my son. Like, holy shit. Now, the Mount Vernon Police Department called in their ESU team, which is the emergency service unit. And according to the MVPD website, the ESU team, quote, consists of a group of elite specially trained police officers that are called out and utilized under specific circumstances. So it's basically like a SWAT team. Sure.
And they used it because they were like, we don't know dangerous as fuck. And we don't know what lies in there. Yeah. And it's like he has obviously caused a great deal of injuries at that home. Who knows what the hell he has on him? Right. This guy's crazy. Like people have talked about how he is climbing in trees at this point and like doing all kinds of weird shit. So people are like, I don't know what we're walking into. And they were just hoping to get these people alive. They didn't want him having even a second of knowing they were coming. So they surrounded the home with that like specialized SWAT team. And he used a battering ram and like bash down the door. I love it. They had a no knock warrant because they were they just wanted to get in there. And they figured at least Sarah is alive for sure.
So they used a flashbang device to enter the home and he had been sleeping on the couch in the living room and just like was shot up by this. Amazing. And it says from the report, and this is directly from the girl on the leaves, which again, I will. Definitely link in the show notes. Said patrolman Weiser and Detective Feeney encountered a male asleep on the couch in the living room. They began to give him verbal commands to show his hands and he was not immediately compliant. So he was being a little bitch. They went through the home and they only found the basement after moving a large cabinet that he had shoved in front of the door to hide it. Shut the fuck up. He had hid the door to the basement. As if they don't know that this house has a basement anyway. And like they're not going to search for one. Right. Come on. But that's even scarier that he put her down there and then put a cabinet in front of the door so she couldn't even get out. Right. And she even somehow got out of what she was in. I know. And I wonder if there was another entrance like a bulkhead or something because some basements don't have bulkheads. I don't think this one.
had one because it was pitch black down there and there was no windows, nothing. Yeah. And they went down there and they found Sarah Maynard lying on a pile of leaves in the middle of a locked room. She must, can you imagine that? I have like, I have like my whole body going warm, warm. In that moment, she must have just been like, thank you, thank you, thank you. Oh yeah. And I'll tell you exactly how she feels about it because when you hear it, you're like, oh my God, you're right. Like I would have thought that too. So this room was in the basement, but it was behind another door and also behind a hole cut through a wall.
What? It was like a big crawl space. So she had to crawl into the room she was in? He had to put her in there. And it was pitch black, no windows, no escape route at all. She was in a legit dungeon sitting in a trash bag diaper over her jeans. Oh my gosh. On a bed of leaves tied with yellow rope and duct tape so she couldn't move. She was bound to that. And he had literally cut holes in a trash bag for her legs and put them over her like a makeshift diaper where she had like...
Had to use the bathroom. Because he wouldn't let her use the bathroom. So she just had to sit there in her own situation. Now, according to, again, that book that I keep talking about, The Girl in the Leaves, Detective Droy Glaser was the one to find her. And he said, and he noted in his report, that she was bound in several different ways by yellow rope. Very tightly, too. There was also duct tape, tons of things going on. And she said to him, quote, I heard someone coming into the house and they yelled, get down, get down. Then they came downstairs and I kept, and I think they kept saying, I think she's here.
And then a bunch of guys came down. And at first I thought they were bad guys. Oh, because he's been saying this whole time somebody's watching the house. That's exactly it. She was like, oh my God, because she heard I think she's in here. And she was like, oh my God, do I yell for them or do I not? And she said, but then I saw the helmets on them and I knew they were saving me. But her moment of, are these bad guys? Are these the guys that he's been saying are watching the house that they've come to take me now? Oh my God. This poor girl, the trauma.
It's unreal. So then she's so relieved. And after the detective and another detective, Craig Feeney, were able to untie her, which they had to take pictures of her before they could untie her. Oh, my God. Because they needed it for evidence. But like, holy shit, the trauma. Seriously. Like, she's probably just like, get me the fuck out of here. Right. Now, they noted that she was wearing that white trash bag, of course. She had also been wearing gloves on her hands that he had duct taped to her hands. Was there any explanation? She said she was like somewhat thankful that he had done that because it was so cold in there that she said if she didn't have gloves, she would have been even more cold. But she was like, I truly don't know why I had gloves on my hands, but he duct taped them to my hands. Maybe he was thinking.
like if she scratched him yeah like fingerprints anywhere i wondered if that was it and i wonder if hopefully they didn't even bring that up to her as a possibility because she's 13 and didn't think of that right because he did sexually assault her right and i wonder if he put those on her so that if if he did one kill her or set her free that she wouldn't have been able to fight and get dna under her fingernails that could later be traced back to him that's what i think it was probably which is so horrific piece is like really great and all like you know we were talking about it at the top of this episode but you know what's even better making it to level 1000 in best fiends because that is what true satisfaction feels like i absolutely love best fiends i play best fiends all the time in fact i was playing it before i came over to elena's house and it was just making me really happy and i was like oh now i have to go to work i gotta put these fiends down i'm gonna miss them a little bit once you download best fiends you can play it anywhere even without an internet connection which is really great if you're stuck without wi-fi collect tons of fiends that get powered up as you play through more levels every win brings new challenges thousands of puzzles to play there's new in-game events that get added all the time they're like especially around holidays and stuff like that
I'm sure there's going to be a cool one for Easter, and I'm pretty excited about it. I am currently on level 1200. Get at me. I've been playing a lot. And with thousands of levels, there's always more to play. So go ahead and let enough is never enough be your mantra. Download Best Fiends for free from the App Store or Google Play. Plus, earn even more with $5 worth of in-game rewards when you reach level 5. That's Friends Without VR. Best Fiends.
Now, the first thing she said to officers when they freed her was, I have to get to school. Oh, my goodness. Because she was like, it's been days. I've missed a lot of school. Oh, she's 13. She's just like, I have to get to school. Yeah. She was like, I just don't know how long I've been down here and I've missed a lot of school. And how long was she down there? It was a few days. It was like three days. So, but time to her had completely. Oh, yeah. She's in a black room. Yeah. She had no idea what it was. And they were like, you know what? It's fine. And they were like, we'll write you a note. Yeah. They literally were like, you don't have to go to school right now. It's OK. Like, we'll talk to somebody. But they said she just was so nervous. She clung to them.
And they said, quote, after the photographs were taken, the girl asked if the suspect was secured so he couldn't hurt her. They assured her that he was. Then she said he cut my finger with a knife, usually had me gagged, and he was going to release me before Christmas. So she was just like, I'll tell you what's going on. Right. No, they asked her if she knew where Stephanie sprang, her mother Tina or her brother Cody was. And she said, I have no idea. Right. Because she's been sitting there blindfolded. She didn't see it. So she did tell them that she didn't know Hoffman's name. She didn't even know that his name was Matthew and that he was the only one she had seen since being abducted. And she asked if she said he definitely attacked Cody because she was like, she attacked both of us. And she said, you know, we saw blood upon entering the house. So she said, but I escaped, but I never saw Cody again. And she's like, I'm just scared he got hurt. Like, I think something bad happened to him.
Now, she explained how she had stayed tied up on his bathroom floor for a long time. Then he had put her in a closet for a while. And then he had put her on that bed of leaves in the basement. This poor girl. What she went through in this, like...
Short, relatively short period of time is like unthinkable. It must have just felt like 30 years. Oh, unreal. Now, a press conference immediately went out and the sheriff said, quote, we have good news to report today. We have located and rescued Sarah Maynard at approximately 8 a.m. this morning. She was being held against her will and she was in good condition with non-life threatening injuries. She was taken to the hospital for evaluation. She's been interviewed somewhat. In the house with her was an individual from Mount Vernon.
He is now in the Knox County Jail, currently charged with kidnapping. His name is Matthew J. Hoffman, and he is 30 years old. We believe Sarah was under the control of Mr. Hoffman since last Wednesday, in one form or another, and at one location or another. Now, they processed his home and were able to get the boots, the sneakers that match those footprints, and the blood. They also found the camo shirt from the Walmart CCTV footage, as well as the blackjack used to bludgeon Tina Herman, and the knife used for all the attacks. Wow. Most disturbingly, and something I didn't know about until I researched this case further, was that they also found a Canon camera that had photos of Sarah on it.
He'd taken photos of her while she was in his... I had never heard that before either. I didn't know that. And he'd taken these photos of her like sitting on the bed of leaves and she's just like looking at the camera. It's a terrifying photo. The fact that this dude pretended that he just went in there to rob the home and didn't target this girl is unreal to me. He totally did. You don't just suddenly turn into a pedophile and you don't just suddenly decide to abduct, bind with ropes and duct tape and sexually assault a child while taking photos of the entire update. That's not just like something you fall into while you go to steal shit out of a house. No. That's not how that happened. This was his aim all along and he wanted to have her in his house under his control and...
He just didn't expect Stephanie to be there. I think that's exactly what happened. He didn't expect another adult to walk in and fuck up the process. He was sure he could get one adult and Cody, in my opinion. But Stephanie was the one that threw the wrench into all of it. She is a lot of the reason that he got caught, to be honest. Like Stephanie really is that reason, because this was her walking in was why he got so careless. And otherwise, he may have been able to kill Tina and Cody and then burn that house down and take Sarah and no one would have been able to track him. Right. So it was really just her sacrifice.
And her being a good friend and coming to the aid of Tina and Tina for fighting back for her kids. It's like these women like are the reason he got caught. Absolutely. They really are. And they were still actively searching for Tina, Stephanie and Cody using all the previously detailed methods, the infrared helicopters, the divers, all the different volunteers. And now now that they found Sarah, hundreds of new volunteers showed up as well to search the woods and the surrounding areas on foot. Neighbors came forward saying places he would often walk and troll around because those were going to be new areas of interest now.
But nothing was found. Now, the amount of blood in the home was concerning and not making it look like it was going to be a happy ending. But at this time, Hoffman was completely uncooperative, wasn't telling them anything. It was Sarah who was actually saying she was worried that he had hurt the rest of her family. He would not say a word. Right. He wouldn't say if they were alive, dead, anything. Because he's the fucking worst. He truly is. Now, neighbors told stories to police and to reporters at this point. Now they're coming out with all the like.
He was a weirdo. And like, here you go. Donna Davis, who we spoke about in part one, she was the like right next door neighbor. She said again how she thought he was completely normal for a long time. And then he just suddenly turned and became really weird and aggressive and moody. And she talked about the squirrels and how he liked to feed them and he was nice to them. And then all of a sudden he turned and started eating them and killing them. And by the way, we now know that squirrels don't usually get rabies. We got a lot of messages about that. I had no idea, to be quite honest.
I feel like I didn't either. Yeah, I don't know. That was just wilderness time with Ash. Yeah, it was just, it was a very, like, innocuous comment. It was. But now, you know what? The more you know. Yeah. Apparently not, because we know now. Also, I've gotten a few messages of people telling me that it's not that uncommon to eat squirrels. Yeah, I had no idea about that either. So, yeah. Thanks for letting us know. T.Y. If you want to eat a squirrel, I guess you can. I don't, but you can. And apparently they don't carry rabies a lot. Okay. Now, she talked. That was, what did we call it? Like, outdoor tips? Oh, that was like wilderness tips with Ash. Yeah, and Alina that time. Yeah, and I was like, yeah. Totally. But they also talked about that tree obsession he had. And they said,
Donna Davis said that a night or two before, she had actually seen him kind of hanging around his fire pit in his backyard in the middle of the night. And she did. She said, he's weird. He does shit like that. So it didn't seem offbeat to me. They must have been looking out their windows at him all the time. I would constantly be like, what? Oh, I don't even do it. I don't even have weird neighbors and I'm always poking my head out the window to see what the... Neighborhood watch for sure. Hell yeah. Now later it was discovered that what he was doing when she saw him doing this was burning evidence and clothing from the crime scene. He admitted that later. He was like, oh yeah, I was sitting out there for hours burning clothes and shoes. She also said, quote, I feel so bad that I was right there.
and didn't hear anything. That basement where Sarah was, it's so dark and dirty that Hoffman's girlfriend wouldn't even let the dog down there. And the worst thing was, she said, I went outside that week and would shout my daughter's name. And her name was Sarah, too. Oh, my goodness. She said, I might have given Sarah Maynard false hope. Every time I yelled for my daughter, Sarah Maynard probably thought somebody was coming to save her. Oh, and it's like, oh, my God, don't think that. No, that's not your fault. You did not know that. And did Sarah say that? She heard.
I don't think she ever said if she heard or not. But it's like if she did, it's like that. You can't know that. No, we never know that. So it's like I feel so bad when people put that kind of like later guilt on themselves. But we all do it. Yeah, I was just gonna say it's human nature. Of course. You're always like, why didn't I hear this? Why didn't I see something? Why didn't I? You know, we all do it. It's because they planned ahead. And Matthew Hoffman, unfortunately, planned someone ahead. Now, they also found out at this time from someone that Matthew Hoffman worked out every morning or most mornings at Body Basics Gym in Mount Vernon. OK. What's weird about that?
Is. He would come in at night and work out. Stephanie Sprang would come in after they closed because she was on the cleaning crew. Dude. Weird little connection, but no one could say whether he had actually seen her there or not because the cleaning crew came in after the place closed. Right. But it could have happened. Maybe. He could have seen her. Yeah. But I don't know. Who knows? But there was also tips from people that they could never verify.
From what I could see that people did say that Stephanie might have actually gone to possibly do because she would like clean houses and stuff. She might have actually gone to do a job at Matthew Hoffman's home. Interesting. But somebody said that this actually happened and that she found him creepy and didn't actually want to do it. So she wouldn't take the job. Oh, the tip said she had actually taken Tina with her because she was weirded out by him. And then after the meeting, they both were like, no, you're not doing that job. Yeah. So, again, it wasn't completely able to be verified past this person who did know Stephanie saying that this happened. Yeah.
But it's still strange that he may have met or seen both of them at some point, because later he adamantly said he did not target this home and didn't know these people. But I don't believe that. And I think he at least saw them. He saw Sarah. Now, again, he wasn't cooperative yet, but he was still being prodded and poked, which must have been a fun job because they had to get physical evidence from him now. He had to have his penis swabbed. And I would have shoved that thing so far up there that he would have coughed it out.
coughed that motherfucker out. Wouldn't anybody? I would have fucked this guy's whole world up. I would have been like, come on in here, sweetie. I'm going to take care of you. So I would have done like a rubber glove snap. Let's go. Fuck that guy. No, he's the worst. He sexually assaulted a 13-year-old. He's a murderous pedophile. He's the worst. He murdered everyone. Now, Lieutenant Gary Roller and Detective Sergeant Roger Brown interviewed Hoffman first. He immediately waived his rights to an attorney, but he stayed completely quiet. Yeah, he took that right to remain silent, though. Yeah. And according to the girl in the leaves, he, quote, pantomimed that his heart was broken.
but did not say a word are you shitting my dick exactly he pantomimed that he had a broken heart what Poor thing. No, sir, you have a broken mind. Yeah. I would have had to call upon deities that I don't even believe exist just to keep myself from hitting that fucker. Honestly. I would have had to have been like, someone give me the strength to not hit you. Somebody might have, and it might just not be on record. Probably not. Now, after, like, violence is not the answer, but, like, you would feel like you would want to at that point. He assaulted a 13-year-old. Exactly. After hours of talking to this guy and getting nothing in return, they brought in Special Agent Joe Dietz, and he was finally able to get him to at least speak a little. Okay. Basically, Hoffman was pulling the I blacked out card that they always pull. Sure. And he said, I found her in the house, and she was tied up.
I found her in his house. In my house. In his house. Okay. He came home to his house and found a girl tied up in his basement. He said, so I took care of her. Yeah. I found her on Thursday and I didn't know how she had gotten there, but she told me I had, quote, done it. I knew I had done something wrong, but I didn't know what it was. And I was trying to piece the pieces together. Are you for real right now? Get fucked, Matthew Hoffman. Come on. Are you kidding me? I just, I blacked out. You are seriously saying to these detectives and special agents, I don't know. I just came into my house and there was this.
13-year-old girl tied up in leaves in my basement. And she said I did something. She said I did it, but I don't believe, I don't, I don't remember. But I did take care of her. But damned if I didn't take care of her. I gave her some sour ass milk. Like you're an actual piece of shit. Fuck right off. An actual piece of shit. And then he just shut right back down after that. After that riveting tale of I came into my home and there was a 13-year-old girl tied up in it. I can't. Okay. And in The Girl on the Leaves, the author talks about a ton of weird tips that came flowing in. And there's a ton of them in there. You got to read it because like some of them you're like, what the fuck? I always hate that. Yeah. And one of them that I found really interesting and had nothing, it did not.
have anything to do with like reality, but it was from a woman in Rhode Island named Cornella who saw Matthew Hoffman's photo in the press and said he has twisty ears and a weird nose. And that's probably something that affects his brain. Okay. So she said he should have a specialist look at that and try to get him to talk and then sign that tip with doing all in the name reputation of the Lord Jesus, the Christ. Oh, Cornella out here.
Just giving tips. Twisty ears and a weird nose. I'm looking to see if that is a fact. I was like, does that indicate that you have a genetic predisposition to murder? I feel like that doesn't work. He also has pretty regular ears and a pretty regular nose. Yeah, he pretty much does. I'm not going to sit here and I don't feel one way or the other about them. And it's just like, stop doing that. And then, of course, there were several psychics who called because psychics love to fuck up active homicide investigations and missing persons investigations. Yeah. So they sent them on several wild goose chases.
using precious time and resources that they have to follow up on and they get nothing out of it yeah because some of them were like i see them in the woods and they're under red tarps no they weren't no they weren't that's frustrating but cool you just sent them out in the woods for no fucking reason at all right so there they go and they're giving them hope because some of them called and some of them called and said the three of them are alive and being held captive which like how you have to be an asshole to do that when you just can't say definitively also that's evil right you don't know that right don't tell people that you just gave all of these families hope that they are being held somewhere and that they can be found and they weren't right that's fucked it is like i hate that shit but well that's the thing because you just don't know definitively so why are you exactly if you're claiming to be a psychic and you're pulling that kind of shit on families or victims that is evil that's fucked and you shouldn't do it because if you're calling in a tip to the police you need to know without a doubt that that tip is like at least good enough to follow up verifiable like you need to have your ducks in a row man like don't just call like oh that just that stuff makes me so crazy because the ones that call for like missing children and stuff will tell these parents that the kids are either dead and they're not
Or they'll tell them that they're alive and they're not. It's like, no, don't do that to families. That's fucked. No, it's like, if you have a tip about maybe that guy who dug a hole in his backyard, for sure, let's go check that out. Yeah, that kind of, it's like, tell real, real, like tangible tips. Yes. That they can follow up on. Don't send them on wild goose chases because you looked in your mind's eye and it told you something. Right. Sorry. No.
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So they tried driving Hoffman around to the crime scene and to various other areas of interest. And they were like, hopefully, maybe he'll just break and tell us something. Nothing. He was a stone, like would not say anything. But luckily, after some more pushing, which seemingly was all within legal bounds, I didn't see anything that said that they like, like they beat a confession out of him or anything like that. So they would definitely put that in there. Usually it's like he would claim that or something later. He didn't claim it later. That's true. And it never came out that they did. And they were, it seemed like they were all on the up and up on all this stuff. So I truly do believe that they were able to get this out of him. Yeah. He did start to open up on his own volition.
I wonder what made him just be like, you know what? Here you go. Well, here's the thing. It was... He was starting to crack. I think just the pressure was starting to happen. He and he opened up not he wasn't just like sitting in an interrogation was like, well, I'm just gonna tell you everything now. Like, that's always a little suspect when that happens. You're like, did you turn off the camera? The other thing is, like, I feel like he probably had something to gain. He did. And he opened up to Agent Dietz. And it was actually when Agent Dietz brought him to use the restroom. That's the thing. I feel like they always find like one person that they connect with for some reason. And he said he was in the way he did was he said, I had a dream last night and it was a nightmare. And he said, I was at a food processing plant and I looked into a garbage bag and I saw human remains. And he said that made it all.
flood back to him. Yeah. Which is like, sorry, I had hiccup. I don't know if you guys heard that. But that's, that's like very convenient. Yeah. That he's like, oh my God, it all came rushing back. Now I remember what I did. So at first he said he would only tell them where the bodies were by writing the location down and giving it to his lawyer, then having a legal document drawn up that said that this was his confession. And then he wanted Dietz, only agent Dietz, to drive him to some location and quote, I'll pretend to escape and then I want you to shoot and kill me. After I'm dead, the attorney will reveal the location of the bodies. And did everybody say, no.
And Dietz was like, you know, I can't do that. Right. Like, I can't agree to drive you out somewhere, release you and then shoot you dead. Right. You know, I can't do that. Right. Like, there's no part of you that believes that I can say yes to that. Right. Like, that's stupid. That's a stupid thing you just asked me. That's a dumb plan you put together. And he said, quote, I'm a monster and I can't live with what I've done. I just want to die. I saw horrible cut up things. No, you cut up people. You did that. Right. You didn't just see that. And you didn't like willy nilly cut people up. You very methodically did this. You were very aware of what you were doing. So Agent Dietz was like.
yeah like you should just confess because like you're losing it i can see it and like this will like absolve you and we'll work through it let's do this well hoffman was like i'm just kidding i don't remember that at all i didn't do that that was a dream i don't even think what am i talking about nah fuck face and then he was like but by the way i might kill myself in prison just so you know so they had to put him in like a suicide gown which that's what they call it i'm not calling it that they literally called it a suicide gown which i'm like whoa but it's so that he has nothing available that he could use to try to harm himself and he made several appearances in front of like a judge in that gown and everything wow i think it was really his way of just being difficult yeah so they did another formal interview he shut down again but apparently he would perk up whenever a woman officer entered the room gross which i was like wow you're gross by this point the fbi and the center for missing and exploited children were working on the case just to find these three victims yeah the community really came together for this they worked alongside investigators tirelessly to find tina stephanie and cody the football teams all wore purple during their like championships to honor them they were searching non-stop like this community seems like it really was like they came together then suddenly november 17th rolls around
Hoffman said, instead of wanting to be let free and then killed in order to reveal where Tina, Stephanie, and Cody were, he wanted the death penalty to be actually taken off the table for sentencing. So you don't want to die. You can't live with what you did. Exactly. Gotcha. Exactly. He tried that avenue of appealing to people's empathetic ways. That didn't work. So he's like, oh, I don't actually want to die. So let's take that off the table. And he said, and then I'll tell you. He probably just thought that he could, I don't know, zigzag out into the wilderness. Oh, he definitely thought something was going to happen. So prosecutor John Thatcher actually met with the family members of Tina, Stephanie, and Cody. And then he explained all of this to them. He was like, here's what he has told us. He's saying that.
If we take the death penalty off the table, he will tell us where they are. And he was basically coming to them and saying, what do you guys think? Like, is that okay with you? That's really hard because if it were me, my initial thing would be kill that bastard who brutally killed my loved one and kidnapped and assaulted a child I love. But luckily he was able to talk through it with them because he was like, the only way we're going to get the information is to take that off the table. But he was like, I want to come to you guys and I want your opinion. And it's his decision.
He can override everybody. They are not making that. But he was I think it's cool that he went to them and was like, you guys tell me your side. Yeah. And maybe I can try to get you over here. And they should have that. And it's nice that they were able to at least voice what they thought. Yeah. I think more family members should have the ability to at least be like just spoken to about it. Yeah. Just vent. Just get what you think. Even if you're like, no, kill him. Let me kill him. You're at least getting to say it out loud to someone and someone that will listen. But he basically told them, you know, we've been searching. We might not find them.
if we don't get it from him. He's the only one who knows where they are. So they did all agree in the end. They all said, take it off the table. Get him to say it. So now they had an agreement that he had to bring them to the bodies. He had to at least tell them where the bodies was. He didn't end up going with them because they didn't want him around. So he had to tell them where the bodies were, and he had to plead guilty to first-degree murder, kidnapping, abuse of a corpse, and sexual assault, among other charges.
And with that, they would recommend life without the possibility of parole. Good. Which I think is like a win-win for everybody. For me, I don't know, obviously, exactly how I would feel if this happened to me. But I think right now, thinking about it, I would rather him have to rot in prison. Me too. To be honest, I would be like, yeah, and no parole. And this agreement had it so that if he decided to appeal this at any point, the agreement is broken and now death penalty would be on the table. Great. So it's really a win-win in all senses. Because if he tries to fuck around and find out, he will fuck around and find out. So it kind of was like, okay, one for everybody. Now, it was all agreed to.
And he sent them to Cocosing Lake Wildlife Area in Fredericktown, Ohio. According to statements and reports, it says, quote, officers had to drive the winding path for approximately one half mile, then walk into the woods a short distance. There they found, quote, a tree with a large opening, approximately 30 to 40 feet up. And they pointed to that. So this open, it's a huge tree, 30 to 40 feet up in the air. There's a giant opening in the tree. Okay. Like way up there. They looked into the opening with flashlights because there was like a little three, I think it was like three centimeters at the bottom. There was like a little hole. Okay. So they used flashlights to look in there and they saw bags at the base of the tree.
Now, a professional tree trimmer was called in and he had to cut a square into the trunk where they were able to pull the bags out. So he had basically used his tree climbing skills to climb 40 feet up this tree and dump those bags through that giant opening to the bottom of this tree. Wow. They would have never been found. No, of course not. Where would you have found them? Who would think to look inside of a tree? And this fucker put them in a tree.
What the fuck is with this thing with the tree? I can't. I hate this guy. Now, agents on scene said the bags, quote, contained various dismembered body parts, including the heads of Cody Maynard, Stephanie Sprang, and Tina Herman. There was also the remains of a small dog. There was also bloodstained towels, clothing, a hat, and shoes. Now, the Knox County coroner, Jennifer Ogle, took possession of the bodies for autopsies. She said during a press conference,
that she was very affected by this case. And she said, quote, it would be impossible not to be emotional about this. We're all emotional about this, but we approach it in a scientific way, not allowing our emotions to get in front of us. Our entire community has been wounded in this tragedy and words can't describe the sorrow felt by all. Knox County is one of the warmest, kindest and most beautiful communities I've ever witnessed. I firmly believe that no one person can ever take that away from us. The story of Sarah Maynard's rescue will forever be remembered as an example of extraordinary detective work and bravery.
She also she was working alongside chief forensic pathologist C. Jeff Lee. What they said in their reports of the autopsies of Tina Herman, Stephanie Sprang and Cody Maynard was about Tina Herman. They said she was, quote, the well-developed adult female body of Tina is disarticulated at the neck across the upper abdomen, bilateral shoulder joints, bilateral hip joints and bilateral knee joints. There were so that he like he said, he couldn't cut through bone. So he disarticulated at joints. There was a ton of overkill wounds.
They were to her face, head, neck. Both of her lungs were stabbed several times. They also noted that the fatal wound to her was actually a 14 inch vertical slash from her chest to her lower abdomen. Wow. He had essentially gutted her.
And that was the fatal wound. Do you think that he did remember the two of them from the cleaning job and was angry for some reason that they didn't take the job? I don't know. I honestly don't know. He makes no sense. Yeah. You could go back and forth because there's also is the possibility. I don't think it is, but it could be a possibility that he just was isolated and had a garage door that didn't work. And he wanted to steal it, but I don't believe that. But yeah, I think it played into it. I think it made it easier. I think maybe he picked that house. I think what he did, this is just my personal thought.
In my personal theory about it, I feel like he saw this house. He saw it was isolated. He wanted to rob the house because he was on that like spree of robbing. I think he wanted to rob it. And then I think he was watching it to see how he could get in there. He saw this family. And then totally switched gears. And he said, I'm going to take her.
And I think it went awry because he didn't expect a second adult in that house. That's what I think, at least. But who knows? He makes no sense. Only he knows, yeah. His pathology is wild. That's really all you can say to describe it. We really never covered a case like this. It's a strange case and very, very sad in all aspects. Now, Stephanie Sprang's body showed signs of dismemberment at the joints as well and a ton of post-mortem wounds, just like Tina. Both had blunt force trauma to the head as well. Cody's autopsy showed he had seven very deep stab wounds to his torso, two to the chest area, one to the abdomen, and three to his back. He had blunt force trauma.
trauma to his skull and also a stab wound to his head. He was also dismembered in a similar way to Tina and Stephanie. All three were killed with stab wounds. None of them died by blunt force trauma. Cody's fatal stab was the one to the back of his head, which you hope was inflicted first. That's what I hope, that it was over very quickly. Stephanie's father, who was part of the search, he organized the search. He was heavily...
believing his daughter was alive yeah stephanie's father's statement like destroyed me um his name is steven and he said quote my heart is so heavy my mind is blank my trust in everyone is shaken i know my daughter is at peace and i'm glad that she doesn't have to see the change in all of us for him to say like i'm glad she doesn't have to see that like we're all changed forever by this. It's like, oh, that's so sad. In Tina Herman's, her two brothers were absolutely devastated by the news. They lost a sister and also a nephew who they loved very much. They were also extremely worried about Sarah having to find this out after the ordeal that she was surviving. Greg Border said he was absolutely devastated by the news and his family, Greg, the ex-boyfriend there, said, quote, Tina was very compassionate and caring. She would give you the shirt off her back. Those kids came before everything else. In Hoffman's confession, he said, quote, I did not want to harm the little girl.
And I do not believe she saw anything. At some point in time, I learned her name was Sarah from a baseball card on the fridge because she was a softball player. He also claimed he tried to, he said, I quote, felt that Sarah was still sufficiently subdued. And I drove to McDonald's. I brought back food, removed her bonds, and we ate together. I tried to comfort her and told her everything was fine. I tried to comfort her after I slaughtered her entire fucking family. He also, there's several things about this. No, he didn't. Sarah said that didn't happen. No, he did not try to comfort me at any time. And he didn't give me McDonald's. That didn't happen. Right. And then also.
He says, I didn't want to hurt the little girl. I didn't hurt the little girl. You did. Then he blatantly acknowledges and says that he assaulted this little girl, but he claims it was consensual. He calls her a little girl and then tries to claim it was consensual.
What the fuck? Like you're a pedophile. Yeah. Like what the fuck? Let's lock you up and throw away the key. You literally called her a little girl then said, no, that was consensual. Can't be. She was a little girl. You're 30. Makes me so uncomfortable. It's horrific. Also, she was like, no, he only gave me sour milk cereal and that was after I asked for food and he offered me squirrel. Like that was it. She said he was an asshole or quiet. He never tried to comfort her. And then he said, quote, I made her a bed out of leaves, covered it with blankets and placed her in the bed. She liked that bed. It was extremely comfy.
What? He also claimed he let her shower and that he apologized profusely to her. She said none of that happened. He never let me shower. And he said she was like, she was like, he never apologized. Did he think that she was just not going to say everything that happened or didn't happen? He just wanted it on official record to look good. He claimed he made her hamburgers and breakfast. He said he played Wii with her at one point and watched Iron Man with her. He let her read books. He also claimed he showed her porn and then had sex with her consensually. So obviously this man is fucked and none of it is true. Oh my God.
Like you're 30. She also said none of that happened. Thank God. None of that happened. But she said he did assault her. Yeah. And he ended it by saying the day the police came, he said, quote, the police came on Sunday morning and I was glad that she was able to leave to be reunited with her family. I would not have hurt her. I could not have hurt her. Reunited with her family? You killed her family. You brutally murdered her family in her home. Are you kidding me? That's and this is him claiming, which doesn't even make sense because this confession was made after he led them to the bodies. Right. But he's still trying to claim that he just came home one day and she was just in her house. I can't.
It makes no sense. No. Oh, and they asked him about that Halloween shirt. Yes. Yes. I was just very, I was like, what the fuck? Why did you get that? So they were like, why did you buy a Halloween shirt while buying the tarp and the garbage bags? And he said, quote, because it was only $1. It was right by the only open checkout counter. It was an impulse purchase.
No, my dude. An impulse purchase is when you are out at Target and you bought a million things and you go up to the counter and you're like, oh, look at the Halloween shirt. It's a dollar. I'll get that. Not after you have brutally murdered an entire family and kidnapped a 13-year-old girl. What? No. Not after you are buying the things to pack up the crime scene and the dismembered bodies of said family. Like, what is your mind? You can't sit here and say that's an impulse purchase. Are you kidding me? What the fuck is wrong with you? I'm like, you're an evil son of a bitch. Yes, clearly. So Hoffman couldn't...
He couldn't be put in the general population of prison at this point because there was a high probability he would be dealt accordingly. Yeah, because he sexually assaulted a child. So he had to be put in his own little thing. Is that? Should we do that? He made the confession. He agreed to the whole plea deal thing. That was the whole thing. So he just went straight to the sentencing phase of the whole thing. I just feel like you shouldn't get special protection because you made the choice to assault a child. It's a very hairy... Of course. I'm not condoning people hurting people. But at the same time, I agree with you that it's like...
you made a choice to get like you go to prison the end and whatever happens happens happens my dude that's not that's not on me dog sorry that you're not higher up in the hierarchy as a pedophile and a woman murderer like i don't think he deserves protection a woman and child murderer like you're you are the trifecta of awful you're a pedophile you murdered a child and you killed women right like why am i going out of my way to protect you why you get a special fucking place in prison yeah no that actually i just got like really i'm real mad like what well at the sentencing a lot of the victim impact statements were read and they are all in that book uh the girl in the leaves and i highly suggest you read them all because they will like just tear apart your heart but they are like so heartfelt um but tina herman's mother barbara like really just like destroyed me she said to him in court she said quote matthew hoffman is not a normal human being he's a ruthless selfish animal who took the lives of three loving and caring individuals he murdered them cut them into pieces shoved them all in garbage bags and then if that was not enough he proceeded to lower them into the hollow of a tree where they would be almost impossible to find no mother should have to bury her baby girl and grandson at the same time no
Larry Maynard's mother, Esther, who was Tina's mother-in-law at one point and is Cody and Sarah's grandmother, said this, quote, I cry all the time. How could I not? Sweet Cody and his mom, Tina, were taken from us in the worst possible way. I find myself shaking inside. The only way to describe this pain is to say that it's as if I were shot in the heart by a shotgun. I beg that your days will be long and full of agony as you deserve. Which I was like, yeah, that's exactly what you say. I hope your days are fucking long as hell and they are filled with agony. And that you don't get to be in a fucking special place in prison. Now, Stephanie Sprang's daughter, Patricia, said, quote, the pain I have endured is unbearable. Not only have I lost a-
mother who I'll never get back, but I feel like I've lost a younger brother in Cody for whom I've played the second role of mom. So Stephanie and her family were very, very close with these. Like this was an aunt to them, you know, a second mom. We all have like extended family members like that, like friends that become family. Now also Sarah Maynard wrote a letter to Matthew Hoffman and wanted to read it in court to him, but they didn't want her to do that because they thought it would be too emotional on her. Like she wasn't fully understanding the weight of that. So they had her write the letter and then they had someone else read it in court.
And she wrote in it, I'm not afraid of you, Matthew Hoffman. Good. Which I was like, fuck yeah, Sarah. She called him disgusting. She explained how Stephanie Sprang was a great friend to her mother and someone who took care of her and Cody whenever her mother needed it, that she loved her. She talked about Tina's caring and selfless method of mothering and how she had everything she ever needed. And even if it meant Tina went without. Cody, she said, was an amazing little brother. He was a left-handed baseball star who would have grown up to fly helicopters for the Coast Guard, which was his dream. She ended it by telling Hoffman that she was happy and that he was not ever going to take that from her. Good. Which like, fuck yeah, Sarah. Good. Apparently he pledged.
guilty verbally to each count very like loudly and clearly. But then when they read the sexual assault charge, he barely let the word guilty be heard. He said it very lowly. And the judge went, what was that? Say it louder. And made him say guilty several times as loud as he wanted him to to that. Good. Because he was like, you're not going to get out of this by pretending that you didn't sexually assault a child. Also, you're going to sit there and be like, guilty murder, guilty abuse of a corpse, guilty. Because he knows. And then you're going to get to sexual assault. And that's like, I'm glad that you have a line. Because he knows going into prison. Yeah. That charge is what's going to get him. Yeah. That he knew that charge was not going to put him. So he was trying to pretend it didn't happen. But it's like, sing it.
We want to hear it. I love that judge. Yeah, that judge was like, say it loud. Yeah, like you're saying the other one so loudly and proudly. Guys, did you know that an estimated 5 billion plastic hand soap and cleaning bottles are thrown away each year? And if that's not bad enough, each bottle can be made of more than 90% water. That's a lose-lose situation for the planet. Stop wasting water and throwing out more plastic and get Blueland's revolutionary refill cleaning system instead. Blueland's idea is simple and beautiful. Buy the bottle once, refill it forever. No more plastic waste.
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basically every surface in my home and it smells so good and it cleans really well I definitely was one of those people where I was like I don't know if this is gonna clean as well as my cleaning products that I use but guess what it cleans better even and my house smells like a million bucks and I'm saving the literal planet right now you can get 20% off your first order when you go to blueland.com slash morbid that's 20% off your first order of any blueland products at blueland.com slash morbid blueland.com slash morbid Now, he was immediately sentenced to life in prison without the possibility of parole. He is now at the Toledo Correctional Institution and he will not be appealing his sentence because then the death penalty will be on the table. Good. Now, Sarah Maynard started at a new school. She was a softball player and loved softball, but she said she couldn't do it anymore because it reminded her of Cody because Cody was a baseball kid. Now, she started volleyball at her new school and she excelled at it. Fell in love with the sport. She has dreams of becoming a pediatrician. Everyone around her said she was doing amazing and she's like a real hero considering what she went through and how she handled it.
Now, they did create, I guess, Larry Maynard and a couple of the other family members created the Tina Rose B. Herman and Cody Alexander Maynard Healing Hearts Memorial Fund. On an appearance on the Today Show, Larry said, quote, it was strictly a nonprofit organization developed to help victims of violent crimes such as Sarah. We think it's going to be a real good organization to try and help other families that may possibly go through the same ordeal Sarah and the rest of our family has gone through. We wanted something good to come out of this tragedy. And it was also a way of remembering Tina and Cody and what good people they were. Cody had told me he wanted to be a Coast Guard helicopter pilot someday. He wanted to help people and rescue people. I've wondered how.
many people he could have rescued in the future. Matthew Hoffman put an end to that. It's as if Hoffman killed those people who might have been saved by Cody as well. They did a bunch of events for this foundation. In particular, they did a bunch of hot air balloon festivals for it, and they did candlelight vigils. You can actually still donate through the Fairfield County Foundation website, and I'll link it in the show notes if you just want to send a donation. Great.
Now, a few things that were said about Stephanie Sprang. People said she was always smiling, always having a good time. I never saw her down. She was a character, a real character, full of life and enjoyed living. She was a beautiful person inside and out. It's unreal that somebody could do something like this to her, to a family. A whole community is hurting and pulling together. About Tina Herman, people said she was a joker and full of life. Tina was courageous. She was an energetic woman whose greatest joy in life was being a mother. She worked at Dairy Queen in Mount Vernon and had the ability to connect with some of the simpler things in life, like blooming sunflowers or her dolphin collection.
Of Cody, they said Cody, a gentle child with an enormous heart, was a fifth grader at East Knox School. He enjoyed all sports, but especially baseball. And at the time, the family of Sarah Maynard, Cody, and Tina Herman had said that in lieu of any flowers or anything to do like that with their passing, they said they wanted donations to be made to any fifth third bank to the Sarah Maynard Benefit Fund. Oh, great. I looked it up and I was having trouble finding it, but I'll do some more digging and see if I can link it in the notes. Now, unfortunately, I think I said in part one that there was a little stuff with Larry Maynard and the stepmother there. I'm just going to go over this briefly because I just want to end it on like the bright note of Sarah. But unfortunately, in 2013, in May of that year, Larry and Sarah's stepmother, Tracy, were charged with abuse on Sarah.
Are you kidding me? According to court records, Sarah told investigators that her father had punched her in the back on May 3rd of that year. And then five days after that, her stepmother had kicked her down a set of stairs. Oh, my God. The charges were dismissed, but it was only because they agreed to take parenting classes and have psychological assessments and counseling done. She actually went to live with her maternal grandmother, Barbara. Thank you. I'm sorry. After all she went through. Oh, my God. I'm so angry right now. Somebody kicked a child down the stairs and they were like, you need to take parenting classes. That's. Mm hmm.
You don't need parenting classes. You don't need a fucking class to tell you that you don't kick your kid down the stairs or punch her in the back. What? And after all she's gone through, you can do that anyways. But like, nevermind. This kid has been traumatized to the nth degree. Oh my God. Yeah. That like really, that's why I was like, I'm going to say all the nice things that he said about the victims because they are true. What the fuck? But that's really fucked up. And it's like, you can look it up. There's a ton of articles about it, but.
I hate people. But again, I wanted to turn this back because I don't want Sarah to just be like victimized all the way around here. So in 2019, Sarah was actually part of a panel rounded up by survivor Elizabeth Smart. And it included other survivors of kidnapping like Gina DeJesus, Katie Beers, Kara Robinson and Denise Huskins and like more. And it was put together by them to share advice for Jamie Closs. Oh, wow. You covered in an episode. And it was to help her. They wanted to do this panel so she could see it, see that they have moved forward and that they are all successful women and like strong.
women right they wanted to share advice to her how to move forward how to like live life like this They know only that those they are the only ones who know what it's like to survive a kidnapping. Of course. Someone who has survived it. We can't possibly fathom it. And everybody can try to give advice, but they are truly the only ones that can tell her what to do. And it was really amazing and really selfless of all these women because it meant that they were opening up their own wounds to help another person in their, you know, the club that none of them want to be a part of. And that takes us very, very incredibly strong and selfless individuals. But Sarah Maynard was part of that whole thing. Wow. Good for her. Good for you, Sarah. Good for all of them. Sheriff David Barber and all the other detectives and special units and the volunteers really made this fucking case.
It was one of those cases where you're just happy to see everyone came together. That community came together. The volunteers, I mean, the detectives, the special units, the sheriff, everybody did their fucking job in this and more. And like at one of the vigils, I read an article where it said like Sarah saw Sheriff Barber and like ran up to him and like threw her arms around him. So like, I think they just felt like really supported by them. Yeah, I was gonna say these were the people that like helped her. Yeah, it's just like that. It's really nice to see that like.
the system worked yeah in this situation like all of the systems worked i love that it's nice to see and i just wanted to end it on that because like sarah's doing her thing good and she that's that's what she is and how amazing that after everything she's been through she can just do her thing yeah and to like try to help others and like try to it's just like really it's something that is really impressive and something i can't imagine but matthew hoffman um rot is uh looking like he's he's living in In a fractional facility, rot in there, and he'll be there until the end of his days. Continue to rot, like, the slowest process of a banana rotting. I guess they also took down the tree, which is unfortunate, but they did it because they were worried it would become some kind of, like, macabre tourist attraction where people were looking in to see where he had dumped the bodies. So he killed the tree, too. I was going to say, which really just goes to show you what a piece of shit he is. And he also was very adamant during the whole thing, like, don't hurt the tree.
He kept telling them, like, you're not going to hurt the tree, are you? Oh, to get the bodies out of it that you put down there? You did this. Yeah, we're going to hurt the tree. We didn't hurt the tree, you did. Like, you decimated the tree. He did. So it's like, it's his fault that that tree got taken down too. So we can count that onto his fucking list of charges of why he's a shitty human. Wow, this case is, like, I didn't even know all the things that you brought to this. He did everything. He killed a dog. He killed a child. He sexually assaulted and kidnapped a child. He killed people. He killed a tree.
He did everything you can think of that's shitty. He's done it. He's also an arsonist. Oh, he's an arsonist. I forgot he's an arsonist. And a thief. Yeah. And a burglar. He's everything. Wow. That dude hit everything. Yeah. He's a shitbag. If anybody deserves to be in prison forever with no possibility of parole, he's definitely one of these guys. To rot like a freaking banana. I hope fruit flies just swarm his fucking cell every single day. I hope his toilet smells bad. I hope he gets UTIs all the time. I hope that he has pink eye every single day. And every time he opens his eyes, the crust just rips apart. I hope, you know, in The Wizard of Oz, when they go into the forest and they try to take the apples and the trees get pissed.
start throwing the apples out. I hope that happens. Like dick trees. I hope there's dick trees all around him. And whenever he goes outside for yard time, they just throw shit at him. I love angrily. I hope the trees are just like fucking with him. Yeah. Well, that was one of the family members. You can read it in the book. If you read the book, they said like during their impact statement that they didn't want him to have yard time. And they said they don't want him to play ball in the yard when Cody can never play ball again. I agree. And I was like, I get that. I 100% get that. So that is the horrifying tale.
of the leaf killer matthew hoffman wow great job but what a harrowing tale it's a harrowing tale and just wishing all the best to sarah yeah honestly and not that she needs it because she seems to be doing great because she seems like she's killing it and to stephanie's family like you know and to tina's family yeah and cody's like i all the all the surviving members i hope that they're doing okay i know and i hope that they're just like watching sarah be be about us yeah but oh man yeah well we hope you keep listening we hope you keep it weird but not sure that you do any of this bye no fuck that guy i don't have to tell you not to keep it that weird