Out of the Pulpit and Into the Pain: The Hidden Weight of Leading in Ministry

In this conversation, Dr. Nick Bank and Jared Kliewer—founder of Presence Ministries (www.Presence-Ministries.org)—explore the hidden emotional and spiritual cost of long-term ministry leadership, especially the quiet collapse that often goes unseen behind the pulpit.Jared shares his personal journey through COVID-era leadership strain, the loss of a co-pastor, anxiety on stage, and his eventual transition out of staff ministry into founding Presence Ministries, a nonprofit dedicated to caring for weary and wounded ministry leaders.Together, they unpack several core dynamics shaping pastoral formation and breakdown:The pastoral isolation cycle, where leaders feel unable to safely disclose struggles.Performance-driven identity rooted in unresolved attachment wounds.Distorted images of God as an harsh evaluator rather than a delighting presence.The danger of conflating vocation with identity and becoming dependent on being needed. The episode also highlights practical pathways toward healing, including contemplative journaling, relational safety, and the presence-centered framework influenced by Dr. Curt Thompson, where vulnerability, attuned presence, and the presence of Jesus converge in healing.Nick also references formative voices and communities shaping this conversation, including his book Down Like Jesus, the Kineo Institute, Standing Stone Ministry, and Dr. Geoff and Cyd Holsclaw’s work.*Jared's Presence-Ministries: https://www.Presence-Ministries.org *Dr. Bank's Book: Down Like Jesus: https://a.co/d/0dW4xa89 * Spiritual Health Assessment: https://form.typeform.com/to/dPmkNlle *Kineo Center: https://www.thekineocenter.com*Kineo Center's Free Burnout Quiz: https://quiz.tryinteract.com/#/686eba2f783d5700154ef51b*Standing Stone Ministry: https://standingstoneministry.org*Cyd Holsclaw: https://www.cydholsclaw.com*Attaching to God (Geoff & Cyd Holsclaw): https://www.attachingtogod.com*InterVarsity Press author page for Geoff Holsclaw: https://www.ivpress.com/geoff-holsclawSupport the showwww.StepUpToLife.comSupport the showwww.StepUpToLife.com