Hello, five listeners. Hello, mystery solvers. This is a Patreon episode. Hello, people with money to burn. And burn you do. You give some of your hard-earned cash to us, which never ceases to amaze me. Your accountants shake their heads, but we smile with glee. Hello. Yes. Perhaps it's your bonus content. Special for you. Just think of all the people who don't get a look at us and laugh a little. Perhaps you're listening to this on the bus and you can turn. Everyone else on that bus probably doesn't get this. And you do. So it's pretty special. It is really special. And what's also really special is that we're actually doing something that is Unsolved Mysteries adjacent.
We're trying to... You know, I don't know a lot about ships, but say the ship has maybe gone off course a little bit. We're steering it back on track. We're starting talking about chicken people, and then you're like, wait, no. Mysteries. This is an Unsolved Mysteries podcast. Let's maybe get back to some mysteries. Last month we talked about art mysteries, which I really enjoyed. And Game of Thrones. Well, also, there was a secret bonus track to that that was as long as they were. Perhaps longer than the actual content. Which is pretty on brand for us, though, is complaining about something we purport to love. Yeah, I think that actually was... I don't think we have very many good things to say about...
Game of Thrones, but we were discussing the finale pretty much only in our defense. If we start a Game of Thrones rewatch podcast, that's going to be a whole other project. That sounds so daunting. Yeah, that really does. There was a second there where you said that, and I was like, I might want to do that. And then I was like, no. Maybe once we're all out of Unsolved Mysteries. And Kitchen Nightmares, which will be our next project. Oh, man. We're going to do this until we die. Yeah, I hope you have no other plans. Okay. Today, we're doing Forensic Files. Forensic Files. Which, as you may know, as a listener to the show, is good. We've done them before. As a cornerstone of my life. And yeah, so it's also been featured on this program before.
There was our ill-fated Christmas episode, which is better not to think of. The worst idea we've ever had was to do a Forensic Files Christmas special. That was entirely my idea. And honestly, in my heart, before we did it, I was like, Liz, this is so good. In Liz's defense, I didn't question it. It was mysteries. It was related to the season. You know what really brings Christmas joy into my heart? Cold-blooded child murder. I wasn't really thinking about that. I didn't really...
question the content of the specific case i was like oh i bet i can find enough unsolved mysteries that take place around christmas that would make sense for an episode and i didn't really think about how depressing that would be and i i apologize i do that's not that's entirely on me we are revisiting the subject that i love so much uh to talk about three different episodes today that i just i feel like are standout cases that have really stuck in my mind over the years i've seen them probably a couple times there's something i bring up in conversation we can really all blame my brother for this he's the one that originally got me hooked on forensic files okay he's still a regular forensic files viewer we both like to watch Forensic Files before we go to bed. We have that morbidly in common as siblings. Okay, okay. And I will be experiencing Liz's Forensic Files episodes for the first time, unless I've seen them before. I have seen quite a bit of Forensic Files. I didn't have time to watch three episodes of Forensic Files this weekend. Shh, Samantha, you don't have to admit that. So, well, it's going to become really apparent as we get going here. I was going to help you fake it, okay? Oh, okay. I mean, I could get to try. We could just cut that out. Uh-huh, the end it was wild to see. That would be you. Samantha's had a very busy week, slash weekend, slash, we're lucky. She even made it here. Lots of going on. Family emergencies, work stuff, whatever.
She's crawled through the – what's the part of the war where there's landmines? You've crawled – A minefield? Yes, yes. Thank you. You've crawled through the minefield. That's what I'm picturing. And on the other side is the podcasting room. And you made it in. That's the point. This is a solid analogy. You're a little worse for wear, maybe. Sure. You're going to heal. You're going to recover. Yep. You've made it to a safe place. And now we're going to talk about murder. And now we're going to talk about brutal crimes.
Which is what everybody is kind of here for, right? Yeah. Okay, so I'm starting. I'm doing a forensic – all forensic files have really terrible title names. I'm doing Concrete Alibi. So just think about that episode and what you think is going to be a key piece of evidence here in this case. Asphalt. Yeah, you're pretty much right. Gravel. Dirt driveway.
I didn't watch these on Netflix because it's too annoying to find specific episodes on Netflix, the way that they organize them by collections. I just literally went to YouTube and I typed in Forensic Files Concrete Alibi, and that's how I watch this episode. That's what I recommend you do. It might be on Amazon as well. Who knows? Definitely don't pay for it. It's on YouTube. Yeah, it's on YouTube for free from the actual makers. It's not Bulag, so whatever. Okay, so this...
Episode starts with an abandoned car on the side of the road that's found by a passerby. The door is open of the car. The lights are on. The car is still running. The car is just left there. There is a purse in the car, but no ID. The registration of the car is traced back to a David Swan, who says his girlfriend, Karen, borrowed his car that night to pick up her three-year-old son, Christopher. Doubted.
who had spent a day with his grandparents. I'm already questioning this David character's story. All the police do as well. This is very convenient. She borrowed your car. She borrowed his car. She went to go pick up her son. She is not seen again, right? This was originally treated as a missing persons case, possibly kidnapping. Where's her son? Did she ever get there? Her son is still with her grandparents. Of course, this being law enforcement, they first go, well, maybe she just ran away. Oh, yeah. Well, I mean, it's happened once. It's happened once with some old man in Canada. So obviously, she would just literally leave her car running. She wouldn't want the car wherever she was going to start in her life.
That makes no sense. She would just literally leave. They also point out that she had literally just gotten her first professional modeling gig and was really excited. So she probably would want to bail out on that. Yeah. Start from scratch. Oh, my first professional gig. You know what? No. I'm not going to go. I'm not going to make that money. I'm going to leave my family. I'm just going to leave everything. Screw that son I had. Yeah. I don't care about my three-year-old son who I was literally just going to pick up. I don't care about this modeling career that I was very excited about. Just take me to Canada. Right? That weekend. 40 miles away on the – oh, this was around Decatur, Illinois, by the way. It's one of the reasons that I'm interested in Decatur. Have you been there? Yes. Okay.
So, 40 miles away on Lake Shelbyville, which sounds like it's from The Simpsons, but it's not. There is really a Lake Shelbyville. A bag is found. It floats ashore. Is this a large bag? It is. Oh, I don't know. Is it a human-shaped bag? A head-shaped bag. Oh, no. So, it floats up ashore. I guess someone calls the authorities. They don't open it. They just go, I don't know. This looks weird to me. Okay. Smart not to open it. The police come out. It's been duct taped to close. Smart not to open it. They open up the bag. It is a woman's head. And he, I mean, he makes this connection. Oh, is this the person that gets going missing in the county over? So.
Credit to law enforcement to actually, like, figuring it out, putting that out together. Yes. So this is the head of Karen Hearn Slover, who is the girlfriend of this guy, David, we talked about earlier, who had borrowed the car. Her head is found in this bag. And over the course of the weekend, they find other body parts in other bags. The bags have been weighed down with pieces of concrete. However, if you've watched other forensic files or crime cases, you may be aware that as the body starts to decompose, it releases gases. Those gases can make the body float. So anyway, the bags floated up.
despite the concrete trunks that were probably weighing them down initially. And then they start to either float ashore or hit boats or whatever. What a fucking amateur. Yeah, clearly they have no idea what they're doing. So, and then we see Karen's dad say a very simple question, which was, who could do such a bizarre thing? Yeah. Which is like, he says this like very calmly and you're like, yeah, that is really like, it is very bizarre. To put like one body part in one bag. Yeah. And then like, oh, this other part of her body is in this other bag and we've dumped them all in this lake. And she wasn't really known to have any particular enemies except for...
We'll get to a few people who didn't like her. But she wasn't like, you know, a controversial figure in any way. She wasn't pissing people off on the internet. No, she wasn't like me, winning every internet battle they enter. No.
Uh-uh. She was likable, unlike me. So it was bizarre that she was found dismembered in a lake. The other piece of evidence that's found with these bags is on the docket tape used to seal the bag, six dog hairs are found. Oh, I thought you were going to say cat hairs. We can blame it on snowflake. I want to know where snowflake was. Yeah, where was that cat from? Canada. Anyway, so they find six dog hairs. Karen has been shot in head six times with a .22 at point-blank range. Some police officer tells you this seems to be a work of anger, and it looks like the gun was just emptied.
into her head. That's brutal. They shot until the gun was empty. So the only thing close to an enemy that Karen had was her ex-husband, Michael, who had been violent with her during their marriage, which is why it had ended. She also did not get along with her ex's family, who had been taking care of her son that day. However, her ex had a solid alibi. Was it a concrete alibi? Hard to say. You know what? It wasn't. Oh, okay. Maybe edit that out. I don't know. Okay.
Spoiler alert. Spoiler alert. It's not, even though it was that spoiler, it's still not what you think it is. Oh, okay. Wow, I'm intrigued. So he was a security guard at a grocery store, and he had shown up for work that day at the time of the murder, and he even had to, like, contact the cops to have someone arrested. So he had a very solid alibi for the time of this murder that he was at work, and that could actually be verified by police officers. So then, like Samantha's suspicions, they went back to the current boyfriend.
David, he had had some legal trouble in the past. He had been arrested once for impersonating a police officer. He'd also spent some time in a mental facility. Could it be him? They'd only been dating for a short time. However, his alibi was that he was at a wedding, or like a wedding rehearsal, I think, but he's late to the rehearsal dinner. So it seems like there's a 45-minute window in between the rehearsal and the rehearsal dinner where he could have committed this murder. Suspicious.
Although, how long does it take to dismember someone and put each body part in a different bag? That's the thing. When I was watching this, even before I knew who it was, I was like, 45 minutes is not enough time for this murder. Her car is ditched. Her body is dismembered. She's taped up. And even if he dismembers her later, it's like, it's not that close to where he is. Like, I feel like just the driving part would probably take 45 minutes. And he's like, I don't understand. I was driving, you know, I was running errands. So I was late to the dinner. That doesn't mean I killed my girlfriend. Right. Okay. So we find out that Karen had wanted to move to Georgia to pursue her modeling career.
So the police are speculating that that could have made her boyfriend angry enough to kill her. What? Yeah. Just break up with her. No. No. I don't see that. They actually bring in an FBI profiler to see if he would fit this case. And the profiler, because profiling is very accurate, says yes. Oh, of course. We'll talk about that in our next episode. In a way, it kind of means nothing. It's kind of guesses. So, but he says yes. But they don't actually have any evidence that it's him. They just think that it's him.
Honestly, that makes sense. It usually is a romantic partner. So I can understand why they thought it was him, but at this part of the investigation, they focus too much on him and they don't look at any other suspects. And they interrogate him several times because they have basically no other leads. This goes over months. And honestly, I don't know why he kept talking to them. If he had a lawyer, I'm sure his lawyer would have told him.
don't do that. It's a bad idea. They're going to get a false confession out of you eventually. But in their fourth interrogation, I think, he eventually mentions, oh, I stopped at an ATM while I was running these errands. So they're able to go to the bank, get that ATM video footage from the ATM and see, yes, he really did go to the ATM. He's not lying about running errands. And there's no way in these 45 minutes he had time to commit this murder and visit this ATM in this other location. Okay, so it's not him. Then they have to return to the scene of a crime, try to get a new track of who this could possibly be. And in reexamining the evidence, they go, you know, it actually makes more sense if this was two people.
Because someone has to move the car. Someone has to dispose of the body. Someone has to get her out of the car and into another car. It could be done by one person, but it would be a lot easier if it was two people. So then they started thinking about who has a motive, other than the boyfriend, to kill Karen. And the only person that comes to mind is her ex-in-laws. She was supposed to be going. She was last seen going to their house. She supposedly never makes it there, but we only have their word for that. And while her ex had an alibi at work.
The parents did not. Interesting. And we find out that Karen's ex-mother-in-law, Jeanette, absolutely hated her, but loved her grandson, Christopher. Okay. And then a weird example is given that Jeanette, after Christopher was born, would breastfeed him herself. I'm sorry. I'm sorry, what? Yeah. Wait. She apparently felt very attached to her grandson, as if it was her own child, to the extent that she would breastfeed him. Okay. That's the fucking weirdest thing I've ever heard. What? Yes.
And she didn't have, like, a baby. Like, she just started producing milk. My understanding is, and this is based on, like, people stuck in caves, so I don't know. If you have previously lactated and breastfed a baby, then you are able to do so again if you, like, want to. If the situation arises, I'm not exactly sure. Baby, suck on this breast until there's some milk. And then the breast eventually goes, huh, I guess I'm supposed to be producing milk. And it does. Look, I don't know. I see this, as we were talking about before that we started recording, as another reason to not have children. But, hey, what do I know?
Could they have been like, Mom, this is weird. Stop. Actually, I'm guessing that's part of the tension between these two people. Probably. That if you found out your mother-in-law was breastfeeding your child, you might go, Hey, uh...
Stop it. Stop that. I actually did not give you permission to do that, and it's kind of weird. And then that person would be like, how dare you? This is my grandchild. I want to give him my breast milk. So fucking bizarre. Oh, my God. Okay. I did not see that coming. Oh, I had actually totally forgotten that detail. A little Game of Thrones-ish mention. No kidding. Yikes. So, this family owned a used car lot where they lived nearby, and it's actually kind of close to where the car was found abandoned. Interesting.
And that place was always referred to by neighbors in the community as like a total dump. But by coincidence, after the murder, they really renovated it and tidied it up. So could this be a cover-up for the scene of the crime? It sounds like it. At this point, a forensic geologist is contacted to examine the concrete. He places a sample of the concrete from their lot versus a concrete found in the bags on a scanning electron microscope to see it at 5,000 times its actual size. And then he says, huh, these samples are similar. And you go, that's very helpful. Thank you. So then he grinds them up and he x-rays them.
to get their chemical makeup, which is also similar. Look, you could have just told me that breastfeeding detail up top and I would have been like... Guilty and just paying that gavel, which apparently never happens in real life. Gavel, gavel, gavel. So this is enough to raise suspicions. And they use this information to get a warrant. What I kind of like about this case is that I feel like a lot of times we're learning more and more about forensic quote-unquote science. It's not as reliable as people have let us believe. They don't just go to trial with this similar concrete and go, oh, obviously it's them. They use it as a starting point for their investigation. So now they get a search warrant.
It is now, at this point, two years past the murder also, which is a little depressing. So now they do what you would expect them to do, and they call in the army. What? Yep. So the army comes. Isn't the army not allowed to do that? I have no idea. Maybe I made that up. I don't know anything about the military. When I heard this, I was like, can we have the army do stuff like this all the time? Because that seems way more useful than things we actually have them do. Yeah, no shit. But they go to the car lot, and they remove 5,000 square feet of topsoil from the car lot.
Wow. And they take all of that and they put it in 65-gallon buckets. That seems like a lot of soil for only 60 buckets. Yeah, it sure does. But moving on. I don't know anything about that. I thought so as well, but then I was like, meh. 5,000 square feet of dirt can fit in 60 buckets? I mean, I guess. That's what they said. I mean, maybe I was wrong. It's very fine dirt. Maybe I meant 600 buckets, but I wrote down 60. Look, I don't know. But as I was writing it, I was like, that doesn't seem like enough. No. But anyway, what's important about this, let's just say they've taken all of the topsoil. That's all about it. Whatever. For six months, teams sift all of that topsoil. Wow.
They pour it. It's like you're paying them for gold somewhere out west at a big old-timey village, right? They're literally pouring these buckets through filters or whatever. Just sifting it by hand. Sifting it. Yep. Holy shit. So for six months, investigators sifted the buckets until they found a brass button. Oh. Which was matching the jeans worn by Karen at the time of her murder. That's incredible. It's the exact same make. The picture of the jeans that she was wearing, it seems like they had a lot of buttons. This was exactly the same as those buttons. They keep sifting. Then they find two brass rivets that also match Karen's jeans.
They keep sifting. They find a cloth-covered button that is compared to what is white. It's just like, you know, like when you have a blouse and the button is, like, made from the same material as the shirt. Sure. It's, like, plastic on the bottom and fabric on the top. And it matches Karen's blouse. So they compare that fibers from the button to the blouse, and it's the same fabric, same weave pattern, blah, blah, blah. Okay. It's the same. Also, this junky, disgusting car lot was guarded by two dogs. Oh, okay. Okay. Did the dog hair on a duct tape match these dogs? Of the six hairs, one hair had enough genetic material for DNA matching.
And it was a conclusive match. To one of the dogs. To one of the dogs. Wow. So, at this point, the two parents... What I find kind of weird about this episode is that we hear a lot about the mother-in-law hating Karen and breastfeeding the kid and whatever. But the husband is... I guess maybe it's because... Okay, so the mother-in-law is Jeanette Slover. The ex-husband is Michael Slover Jr. The other murderer is Michael Slover Sr. Okay. So maybe I just missed that they were talking about two different Michaels. Because I was kind of like, why do we never hear about the husband murderer? Why do we only hear about the breastfeeding...
crazy cuckoo bananas mother-in-law you know yeah seemed a little sexist but whatever so the ex-in-laws and the ex-husband are all indicted for murder because even though the ex-husband has a solid alibi he called his parents 12 times that weekend so they believe that he was instrumental in both the planning and the cover-up even if he was not there for the actual murder that he was guilty of aiding and abetting seems likely uh they were all tried and convicted and got 68 years and i looked into this just a tiny bit more Oh, so Michael and his father both received an extra five years for the charge of concealing a crime. At one point, the Illinois Innocence Project got involved, which I thought was interesting. They wanted this fingerprint that was found on a bridge by the lake introduced, but it turns out that the print wasn't suitable for testing for some reason. Interesting. So they didn't get a new trial.
And the kid was later raised by his maternal grandparents, in case you were wondering what happened to them. Okay, that's good. I assume they didn't breastfeed. That poor kid. That's so weird. He lost everything. Yeah, that's terrible. It's a very strange case, but the reason that I like it is because I just wish we could devote that kind of energy, like exhaustive investigation to every case.
Sifting through all that dirt. That is the part that's always stuck in my mind, to spend six months sifting dirt to find some buttons. But they really followed up every possible angle. They followed up with the concrete. They followed up with the dog hairs. They didn't just go, oh, these are similar. They found enough evidence to be very sure of their guilt. And what you see on Forensic Files is that if you're going to get murdered and you want that murder solved, it better be in a small, well-funded community. Because they need the money to do all the testing, but there also can be no other cases to distract them. Because not everybody has six months to sift dirt. But everybody deserves that. Poor Karen. I know.
Her head was in a bag? Oh, that's so awful. Yeah. Okay, so this next one is wild. I'm so excited to talk about this with Samantha. This is the real reason we're doing this episode is because this is so bizarro. Okay, so this is from Collection 2, Episode 10, and it is entitled Sealed with a Kiss. Like Liz said, you can find this on YouTube. I just typed in Sealed with a Kiss Forensic Files and it came up. It's also in HD. So enjoy that. All right, this episode starts with a grainy black and white up-close shot of a typewriter punching out the words whore, bitch, etc. Which sounds like a quality entertainment if I've ever seen it. The narrator tells us that an elementary school teacher is receiving threatening letters. Some threaten violence.
Yep. So not only that, but the stalker knew more about the victim than anyone could have imagined. All right, it's 1993, and hate mail has begun to arrive at an elementary school in eastern Pennsylvania. It's unsigned, it's sent through the mail, and it's arriving at the principal's office. They make serious allegations against a first grade teacher named Joanne Chambers, who has been teaching at the school for eight years. The serious allegation was that Joanne Chambers brought pot to the school and hid it in the faculty room. It will escalate, but this is where it starts. Yeah, how dare she? At first, Joanne thought that a disgruntled employee had sent the letters, but soon she began receiving letters herself at both her home and the school. And Joanne herself is sitting there telling us this. She's basically saying, like, I don't know who could have done this to me.
I originally thought it was just someone who was angry, but then suddenly they started showing up at my home, and that was a pretty big violation. This is a note I made in the margins. The voice they used to read the letters was super duper creepy. They make it a mechanical – You whore! How dare you teach our children? It's actually nothing like that, but you get the idea. The letters were also distributed to other teachers through their mail slots at the school. Joanne was popular with students and would have been an unlikely target for a hate campaign, except –
I don't understand why they needed to say that, because her students were in first grade. Can you imagine first graders going on a hate campaign that involves sending letters calling their teacher a whore and a bitch? Yeah, I'm very sure I was not aware of those words in the first grade. And maybe kids now are, but this is 1993, and it was an isolating time. She would have been an unlikely target for a hate campaign among her students. She didn't strike me as a bitch or a whore, so these kids were just way off base. So Joanne was married and had a 10-year-old son. The principal did not believe the allegations. It was clear that someone was targeting Joanne.
Even from the beginning, they came out really strong. This school district and this principal gave Joanne and everyone involved in this case so much benefit of the doubt. It's remarkable. The principal didn't believe them at all, seemed to be completely on Joanne's side the entire time. The police – oh, one letter accused Joanne of liking Jack Daniels. Soon after, she discovered a bottle in her desk drawer. At the same time, personal items were missing, including some photographs of her and her friends and family.
The police suspected that a school employee or fellow teacher was to blame because the letters often mentioned school activities or inside jokes. One letter referred to the superintendent as Colonel Klink, which is a character in Hogan's Heroes. The woman who had coined the nickname for the superintendent was another first grade teacher who had worked at the school for 18 years. Her name was Paula Naraki. So the letters continued and the incidents eventually escalated. One day, Joanne sat down at her desk to begin a lesson to find that her dress was suddenly covered in feces. Yep. Which is disgusting.
The letters were sent to Quantico FBI lab in Virginia. They found partial fingerprints, but little other evidence on the letters themselves. Thanks, FBI. Very helpful. One of the letters threatened to poison Joanne. Shortly after, a video camera placed in Joanne's classroom captured footage of Paula Naraki entering her classroom and taking Joanne's coffee cup. Paula, how could you? Yeah, so this was...
This was damning because the letter specifically said, like, what if I slip something into your coffee? I've had several opportunities to do it today. Right. And so it specifically mentioned the coffee cup. And then there was this footage of Paula going in and taking the coffee cup specifically. So things aren't looking great for Paula. A photo of Joanne that was stolen from her desk was cut up and her face pasted on a photo of a naked bussy woman. Photocopies were distributed to parents of kids at the school and pasted all over town.
at least when I was watching this on YouTube, that this image isn't censored at all. Not at all. Enjoy some boobs. Yeah. Letters were sent to parents claiming that Joanne was a lesbian and had AIDS. All right. It's just everything. She loves Jack Daniels and smokes pot. Also, she's a lesbian whore. And oh, by the way, got AIDS. Very believable. Very believable. Something a first grader could come up with, perhaps. Definitely. With their access to pornography and Xerox machines.
So Joanne is shown again on the show talking about how upsetting this was to her. It was a violation for privacy. And especially, you know, it was embarrassing for parents of her students to receive these photos of her pasted onto boobs. I mean, personally, since I don't teach kids, I would be like, yeah, that's me. I look that great. But it doesn't threaten my livelihood, right? Right. I would just be like, no, no, that's what my rap looks like. Now you know. The FBI recommended that Joanne be given a polygraph test to validate her claims.
Paula also volunteered to take a lie detector test to clear her name. At this point, the episode gets very dramatic. It says one of them failed on the most crucial question of all. And it's time for a commercial break. I don't actually ever remember if they tell you what a crucial question was. They don't, no. But one of them failed. So, dun-dun-dun, it was Paula. Who had actually volunteered to take the test? Poor Paula, because those tests don't really mean anything. No, so Paula Naraki became the primary suspect. Paula told...
the detective, quote, if I'm doing it, I don't know I'm doing it, and quote, you'll never prove it's me. So to the detective, those were very incriminating statements. Naraki, though, said that she was simply illustrating how absurd the situation was. So you can see how – It's very open to interpretation. In two sentences, she was, you know, basically, they were convinced that it was her because she said these things to the detective sounded very incriminating. And when he said it, and the way he said it, and I'm watching this episode, I'm like, yeah, that does sound really incriminating. You'll never prove it's me.
me. Right. And then Paula was saying, I was just illustrating how absurd the whole situation was. You're never going to prove it's me. I didn't do it. You're really accusing me, a teacher who's been here for 18 years, of suddenly snapping and making weird typewriter threats. And collages. Pornography collages. Yeah. Why would I suddenly start doing that? If I'm doing this, then I don't even know I'm doing it because I'm not doing it. Right. Paula said that Joanne asked her to grab her coffee cup for her, and the video shows both women in the room shortly before. They leave together, and then Paula returns to grab the coffee cup a couple seconds later.
Police requested to search Paula's apartment, and she complied, eager to clear her name. The analysis of Naraki's typewriter revealed that it was not the typewriter used to type the letters, nor did the paper and envelopes in her home match those of the letters. So there you go, right? Case closed. Yeah, no. Apparently, the investigators came up with this ridiculous theory. Paula was, quote, a conservative, by-the-book teacher, a strict disciplinarian. In contrast, Joanne was a, quote, fun-loving teacher who has a much more casual style. Investigators believe that Paula was jealous of the popularity that Joanne cultivated from her fun, carefree classroom, and this is how she responded. Yes, like a professional.
She didn't say, we just have different teaching styles, or maybe I don't really like her. Maybe we're not going to be friends. I mean, my mom was a teacher, recently retired. Did she ever steal photos of her co-workers, cut out the faces, and paste them on busty women, and then mail them to her students' parents? Claiming that they were a lesbian with AIDS. Actually, yeah, that's how she settled every disagreement she had. Wait, no! Teachers disagree about shit all the time. Just like any co-workers. Yeah, it's not special. They have picked a suspect, and they're like, but why would she do this? And then they've made up this motive that doesn't... The police wouldn't do that, Liz. Okay.
I'm sorry, I'm not showing proper respect. As the investigation continued, so did the letters, and they continued to escalate, accusing Joanne of molesting children, and then, of course, there were death threats. So, for her own protection, Joanne was transferred to another school, but shortly after the transfer, a box wrapped in pink paper was found on the ground in front of the school's front door. Inside was a Barbie doll wearing a dress similar to one Joanne often wore, with hair cut and styled like Joanne's. The Barbie had a razor blade stuck in its throat and was covered in red paint to look like blood. I was kind of surprised the first time I was watching this that she was transferred to another school.
She didn't ask to be transferred to another school. Right. This seems like it's going on for quite a while. It's become a huge burden on your life. These letters seem relentless. You might want to go work somewhere else. I don't know. Yeah, it's a little odd that she was transferred. You know, I don't know if it was her idea. Sure. In November 1994, Joanne called the police to report that another driver had tried to force her off the road. She said that she saw the face of the other driver and knew exactly who it was, Paula Narocki. That's reenactment. It's so cheesy. It's extremely cheesy. Very, very bad. You want to see a nice phone, car phone?
Oh, true. State of the art. All right. Paula denied the claim, but was arrested and charged with over 100 counts, including harassment, stalking, simple and aggravated assault. Wow. Not looking good for Paula. After Naraki's arrest, the letters stopped. Naraki maintained her innocence and hired an attorney and a private investigator to help. The private investigator even admitted that it did not look good for Paula. The partial fingerprints found in the letters did not match Paula's, but that really didn't mean much. The team wanted to know if any DNA could be found on the letters. The prosecutors agreed to allow testing only if the results were disclosed to them regardless of the outcome. So the private investigator explains that what this meant was if the DNA matched Paula, they have to turn...
that over to the prosecutors. Sure. And they basically would assure that Paula would go to prison. Sealed with a kiss. Yes. Got it, everyone? Yep. Does a kiss have anything to do with anything in this story? Got it! No. Got it!
So the private investigator said, Paula, are you sure you want to do this? And Paula wanted the test done. She paid $7,000 of her own money and sent samples of her blood and her husband's blood into the lab. That's $1993. Yeah. That's so many dollars. Yep. And I don't think Paula was making a lot of money teaching first grade. Yeah, I don't have $7,000, $1993 to go spend on DNA tests to prove my innocence. I better not be accused of this crime. Nope. DNA was found on the back of one stamp and on the sticky part of one envelope. We hear a lot about how the test is done and I didn't understand any of it. So much about stamps. I didn't read anything. Yeah, a lot about stamps.
If you wanted to learn about stamp glue, this is the episode for you. So there was no match to Paula or her husband, who also sent in the blood sample. Case closed, right? Yeah, Paula's defense team decided to go one step further and not only rule out Paula, but also find out who did lick those stamps. The private investigator who was interviewed for the show says that there was only one person who knew all of the information in the letters, Joanne herself. Did you see that coming?
The defense learned that Joanne had a history of reporting suspicious incidents to the police department in a neighboring town. Joanne would frequently make calls reporting burglaries, fires, and suspicious activity. In his research, Paula's private investigator also discovered that Joanne had reported similar threatening letters and also claimed to have found feces on her classroom chair while she was working at a different school years earlier. It's not good. It's not looking good. But they needed DNA from Joanne, so they stole her trash from the curb. Which is legal. Totally legal. In the trash, they were able to recover items containing two different DNA profiles, and one of the profiles matched the DNA found on the threatening letters. I have to say, the first time I saw this, it blew my fucking mind. Because Paula's in the episode! Yes! And she's been talking to you this whole time, like, it was so stressful, I just didn't understand why people would...
And then it turns out to fucking be her the whole time? Yeah. So Paula and Joanne are both interviewed for the show. And the whole time you're like, wait, so how could Paula be interviewed for the show if she did this? And then suddenly you're like, well, it couldn't have been Joanne, but then they present this evidence and then her DNA blew my mind as well. Also, this is just, I don't think something you could do today because it takes so long for people to find out that she's had similar instances in the past. And that would have come forward immediately now. But it's like, oh, wait, she actually just goes from town to town doing this.
the strangest thing. So bizarre. So despite this evidence, prosecutors refused to drop the charges against Paula. Why? That makes me so angry. At this point, Joanne voluntarily provided a blood sample for testing. Once again, Joanne's DNA matched the DNA found on the letters. Because it's her. The DNA technician, the forensic technician, whoever was doing the testing, said that this meant that there was a 1 in 14,925 chance that a random person from the population
would be pulled out. It was a very remote chance that this was anyone except Joanne. I don't know how much DNA testing has improved by this time. I think a lot. They make a point of saying that it's matching on five indicators. I think typically now it would be matched on a lot more indicators, but that's why it's one in 14,000 people instead of one in millions of people. Right. So it was pretty conclusive. Still, prosecutors refused to drop the charges. Because they're just wasting everyone's time and money, I guess. I guess the prosecution presented their circumstantial evidence. The defense presented the DNA.
Joanne also claimed that she – so Joanne tried to explain how her DNA ended up on the letters, and she said that she used a glue stick on the stamps because she was left alone with them and she was trying to stick them back down. It made no sense. The forensic analyst who ran the test happened to be a stamp collector, which was like a mic drop moment, where she's sitting on the stand like, actually, I have over 500 stamps and I know what stamp glue looks like. Actually, I happen to also be an expert in stamp glue. You didn't see that coming, you bitch. Because Joanne, compulsive liar, is never going to admit that she's wrong. So when she's confronted with all this evidence, instead of being like, I don't know, bursting into tears like a –
semi-normal personhood. She's like, oh, it's because I was left alone with the evidence, and then one of the stamps came off, and then I leaked it, tried to put it back on, but it didn't work. But I'm a teacher, so I had a glue stick in my purse, and then I tried to say, because liars, their lies get more and more complicated. So, but, but, this doesn't work, because somebody's a fucking stamp glue expert. Oh, it's so great. It's always the best. It's amazing. So Paula, this episode, blew the jury away. They were completely convinced by the DNA, and Paula was found not guilty. The wildest part is that both of them are back teaching at the same school district, but they did make a point of saying that they're at different schools. So the prosecution never – from what I can tell, the prosecution never denied that it was anyone but Paula. They were convinced that it was her. The jury found her not guilty, so that was that. But they didn't pursue charges against Joanne. So Joanne never had charges brought against her. The resources, she's wasted. A ton.
By filing these false claims. What I also think is hilarious is they said that after Paula's found out guilty, people exited the courtroom, all these jurors came up to Paula and told her that they loved her. They felt so bad for her. That she had gone through this. No one was like, I don't think she's guilty, but maybe she is, or maybe there's a reason why. They were coming up to her and hugging her. The defense said that he's never seen the conclusion of a courtroom case where the defendant was treated like the victim and the...
Joanne just leaves in shame and everybody's like, Paula, we love you. We're so sorry. Yeah, it was hilarious. But poor Paula is out all of this money for her lawyer, for a private investigator, and for all this DNA testing. Right. I'm surprised that she even got her job back, because that's the most amazing thing to me. So this whole case is wild. It just blows my mind to imagine Joanne cutting a Barbie doll's hair to match her own and sewing in a little dress that looks like her own. That is – I can't even – It's a whole other level. It's another level for sure. Yeah, I love this story.
There's so many layers to it in a way. Not only does Joanne have this, I'm assuming, compulsive need for attention and sympathy that she would create these letters in the first place and that she would keep escalating it into death threats and this Barbie doll. Not only would she let it go to trial and accuse this totally innocent woman of trying to run her off the road, but she sits down to talk to forensic files about it. Still maintaining her innocence. On some level, she knows it's fucking her. She knows that she smeared – I'm just assuming her own feces on a desk. At more than one school. Yes. To make it look like she's being harassed. She cut pictures of her own face, put them on porn, and mailed them to her students' parents. And then sat down at Forensic Files and was just like, I don't know why people would be so mean to me. It's so wild. Why? Yeah, I'm glad this was a good one. Don't let this case be a reason not to believe victims, but man, oh man, I said a wild story. It's completely wild. This is like a –
Yeah, I've never heard anything else like this. Honestly, it's very, very strange. And I hope she didn't keep teaching forever. I don't know. People who have her as a teacher could see that forensic files that she's literally sitting on? Or a parent of a first grader. It was like, oh, I really hope my kid likes new teacher Joanne this year. Let me turn on it. I'm sorry, what? You're like, Johnny, we got the teacher you have this year. Yeah, it's Joanne Chambers. Honey, wasn't that the one who put VCs on her own desk in forensic files? And then a dad reading the paper is like, yeah, I heard she has AIDS.
That's the rumor out there. It's like, no, she's a compulsive lying weirdo. This one was wild. Yeah, it's something. Oh, but it's going to get weirder. Weirder than a grandmother breastfeeding her grandson and a woman making up this harassment campaign? Yep. All right, I'm here for it. That's why we're doing this one last. This is Forensic Files' Dirty Little Secret. Oh. All right. Of course, there's a forensic file called Dirty Little Secret. They're not all called that. Dirty Little Secret 1, Dirty Little Secret 2. I'm surprised the show isn't just called Dirty Little Secret. Anyway, this is the death of Josh Ford and Jeannie Kirchel.
All right, I'm saying that again. This is the death of Josh Ford and Jeannie Kirchley, who had met at an office party. They were both divorced. They were sort of like looking for a new lease on life. They met. They felt deeply in love. The show, for too long, talks about the fact that he is 32 and she is 51. It seems to only bother the people making the show. They seemed cool with it. He was a successful mortgage broker. She was an accountant for an insurance company.
I don't know. They were starting, like, a second life together. They had been dating for two years. They're moving together. They decide, you know what? For Memorial Day, let's take a vacation. They rented a condo in Ocean City, Maryland. However, Memorial Day weekend comes and goes, and neither of them show up for work the next week, which was very strange because they were both professional people, and, I don't know, they just wouldn't do that, right? Right. So both of their jobs called the police.
Where is this person? Why haven't they showed up? So the police go to Ocean City to investigate. Jeannie's car is still in the parking lot. And they can tell it's been there for a little bit just due to, like, sand in the area. The car hasn't been touched. They go into the condo that they rented. There's no signs of foul play. And the keys to the car are still in the condo. It just sort of looks like they got up. They went, hey, maybe let's walk down to the beach or let's go get a drink. And they never came back.
All right. Their credit cards had been last used to buy drinks at a bar called the Green Turtle on Saturday night. They find a waitress that served them, but she just remembers them sitting alone. From there, they had taken a bus to a nightclub called Secrets, which is where we get dirty little secrets. Also, secret is spelled like C. I get it. Which I'm not sure if the nightclub was or not, but whatever. Maybe it was. I get it. So the bus driver is like, oh, yeah, I remember them, which kind of makes it sound like they were being annoying on the bus, but whatever. Yeah, if a bus driver remembers you.
should not remember you. But if he remembers, I'm talking to another white couple on the bus and that they got out at this nightclub secrets. And that the other couple was in their late 20s, maybe early 30s, and that they had all gone to the club together. So they find witnesses that say, yeah, they had to wait in line for maybe over an hour. They went in, they had some drinks, and they all laughed together. They waited in line for an hour to go into secrets? I know. Isn't that sad? The only place in town. Not to be cruel, but I hope that's not what I'm doing my last night alive.
Oh, boy. Okay. So, then, after this point, there is no trace of Josh or Jeannie. There is no cell phone and there is no credit card activity. The case stalls out for a little bit. Less than a week later, police are called by a silent alarm to a Hooters restaurant after hours. Okay. A man and a woman are caught stealing merchandise and cigarettes from the closed restaurant. They are arrested. Is it them? It is Benjamin and Erica Siegfried. Okay. Or Siegfried. Whatever. Siegfried. Siegfried. Benjamin and Erica Siegfried.
Okay. They were not what the police like to profile as likely criminals. He was a former Navy SEAL. She was a former star student athlete. Don't really see why that's relevant. But neither of them had a criminal record. If you're good at sports, you can't be a criminal. I mean, that comes up a lot in our culture. So there you go. But they were in possession of three guns between the two of them. Oh, you only got so many hands. And I guess they could have had a fourth gun. They had four hands. They had four hands. This is the US. You could strap some to your person or whatever. But also in Erica's purse is Josh and Jeannie's driver's licenses. Okay.
She claims that she found them on the beach and that she had never actually met Joss and Jeannie. Likely story. This is technically possible. Perhaps Joss and Jeannie were robbed, you know. Yeah, but unless you're under 21 and you look like Jeannie, why would you have? They think, oh, maybe they were planning to commit identity fraud. Okay, well, yeah.
Also in the car are some plaqueski masks and flex cups. At this point, they're speculating that Erica and Benjamin may have kidnapped or robbed. Or that. Yeah. I mean, maybe they should have first jumped to kinky sex, but they did. They said perhaps Erica and Benjamin had robbed them, right? Sure. But based on them having the driver's licenses and this other kind of suspicious material, they get a search warrant for their home. They find on the coffee table two spent bullets. They kept them? They sure did.
In a stack of photographs, they also find a photo of Josh and Jeannie at Secret's nightclub the last night they were alive. Huh. This is not looking good. The photo shows a ring on Josh's finger. In a photo taken two days later, we see that same ring being worn on a necklace by Erica. Oh, creepy. It's also in Erica's possession when she's arrested at where? Hooters. Classy. Yes. Robbing a Hooters. Classy. As you do.
That is so creepy. It is a distinctive ring. It is silver and has a dragon on it. That's very distinctive. So I put this down as a reason you should wear flashy jewelry to help investigators. I think this is a reason you should get multiple parts of your body tattooed in case you're dismembered. So it can be a dead... This foot! You'll be able to find this foot. I have a witch's cat tattooed on it when it floats up in a lake. Every part of my body needs to be tattooed in case I'm dismembered. Yes. And wear flashy distinctive jewelry with dragons on it. All the more reason why we should go on How Far Is Tattoo Far. Yeah, so I can get my Area 69 tattooed.
Okay. They also had the key to their condo in their home. Looking more and more suspicious by the minute. So they go to the bus driver, who has an eerie memory for people, and the bus driver goes, oh yeah, that's them. That's the white couple I saw them talking to with the bus. They are also identified by witnesses as being a couple with them at Secrets. I mean, they have the photo, so it makes sense. Yeah.
Yes, they're doing their due diligence. So now forensic examiners look at their bathroom of Eric and Benjamin's. When they go to sort of the hair trap in the sink, you know what I'm talking about? The under part of the sink. I'm very familiar with that. As someone with previously super long hair. In that, they find blood, hair, and even flesh caught in the sink drain. There is a bullet hole found in a wall that goes through the bathroom into the bedroom. There is also a partial palm print found on the window of the bathroom.
A DNA profile is made for Josh and Jeannie from their tooth and hairbrushes. Most of the DNA is a combo of the two of them. It's like what's found in the sink. It's a combination of both of them? It's a combination of both of them. The DNA found on one of the bullets belongs to Josh. The bullet seems to have been dug out of Josh's body and kept. What? They compare this to the three guns taken from the Hooters robbery. The bullet from Josh's body matches the .357 revolver.
At this point, Erica realizes this is looking bad. Yeah, I'm fucked. So she agrees to lead them to the bodies. Okay. And testify against her husband in exchange for reduced charges. All right. She says that they dismembered them and dumped them in dumpsters in the neighboring state of Delaware. Why? Why did they do any of this? At this point, the cop is excited because Delaware has a unique system of dumping.
And apparently they know where every single one of their dumpsters ends up. They're ridiculous. A unique system of dumping. So they were like, oh, I'm glad they weren't dumped in Maryland. They were dumped in Delaware. Delaware's got good dumping. They got good dumping over there. We're going to find those goddamn bodies. And they do. I wish we named Patreon episodes so we could call this a unique system of dumping. We'll get so many weird downloads and people are so disappointed. It's not just about us shitting.
That's next month. Delaware, anything you throw away in Delaware, guess what? They can drag it down. With a unique system of dumping. Erica tells them what dumpster, they place it in various body parts in various dumpsters. She tells you multiple parts of your body. Yeah. And so they're able to go to the dump, find some of these body parts. At this point, it's clear that these are two, Josh and Jeannie are two random victims. And that possibly...
Eric and Benjamin had gotten into breaking a law as a way to be kinky. Oh, so it was kinky sex after all. Yeah, you know what? You're kind of right. One of the parts of Erica's deal was that she had to pass a polygraph test, which seems kind of crappy, but whatever. And originally, she had said that she had only helped dispose of the bodies and was not part of the murder. However, when it comes time to take the polygraph, her story changes.
Erica apparently stabbed Jeannie in her side. Oh. It gets worse. Oh no. In fact, Erica had gotten a terrible tattoo of a snake in the same place on her body so she could always be reminded of how she stabbed a person? Yes. What the fuck? And they show it because, you know, this is like the early aughts that she's wearing some like low rise pants and a crop top and you can see this terrible snake tattoo on her side that she apparently immediately ran out and got to remember.
That's fucking messed up. Okay, so the deal's off. Yeah, I would hope so. Erica lied. She's actually very involved in these murders. They're now cutting a deal with her. They're both charged with first-degree murder. It appears to be a thrill killing. It is only at this point that you learn of the couple's day job. Do you want to guess what that was? They worked at Hooters. They owned a scrapbooking store. I never would have guessed that. What? Yeah.
their crickets, their glue sticks, and their cardstock? I mean, they hadn't even invented crickets yet. They had the die cuts back then. Sure, you're right. They were selling die cuts. You see a photo of Erica standing in just rolls of stickers, which is like my dream. I wish that was just in my house. Rolls and rolls of stickers. They own a scrapbook store, but apparently their sex life was really lacking. So they decided to murder a random couple. So they turned to a life of crime for kicks.
It started with burglarizing. Go to a video store and get a dirty movie and watch it when the kids go to bed. People who are against pornography and want to outlaw pornography think of the things people will have to do for their kicks. People have to stab a woman. In their side and then get a tattoo there. And they did this with access to pornography. But, you know, when is this case? There was no Pornhub, I guess, but. Yes. I was like, when did these people die? Yeah, early aughts. Okay. They could have found porn. 2002. Yeah, they could have used the internet to find some porn.
There's no excuse for stealing a person. Go get some porn. Okay, so they had started burglarizing places near their scrapbook store. Sure. But that just wasn't doing it anymore. Couldn't they just, like, put a sticker on his dick?
Wouldn't that be a unicorn? Like that shimmery one. I can picture like a specific sticker in my mind. Okay. But it just wasn't doing it for them anymore. Okay, Samantha? Okay. Stickers weren't doing it. So they met Josh and Jeannie on this bus just by random. They go to secrets together. You know, Josh and Jeannie are on vacation. They're trying to like start new lives, have some fun. They think they meet this other fun couple. They might scrapbook together next weekend. Yeah. How harmless could a married couple who owned a scrapbooking store seem?
I will never look at a scrapbooking store in the same way. Benjamin's probably telling annoying stories about being a Navy SEAL, but you're just like, ho-hum, right? They invite them back to their place to sit in a hot tub, and they go, sure, why not? Seems legit. Seems legit. She sells stickers. Yeah. How homeless. You see a picture of them. I don't know. They just look like dorks. Kind of. They don't look like they're going to stab you on the side and get a tattoo about it. I don't know who looks like that, but they don't.
Okay. However, they get them back to their place and then decide to toy with them. If they had decided, when they decided to murder them, it's unclear. Okay. They get them back to their place, they decide to toy with them. Erica claims that her purse is missing and is containing valuable jewelry.
and asks them to help her look for it okay this was apparently some sort of game that if they found the purse they would live if they did it they would die what i'm not even clear there really was a purse oh my god so they don't find it i'm not really sure there is one and then benjamin accuses them of stealing it okay so this becomes sort of a heated thing you stole it no we didn't we don't know what you're talking about blah blah blah benjamin pulls a gun on them and tells them to take off their clothes to prove they're not hiding the purse. How small is this purse? Yeah. It's made of paper. Peach attire. So they're like, what, really? They're like, yes, take off your clothes! It's just some folded cardstock. Yeah. So they strip down at gunpoint. They manage to run into the bathroom, lock themselves in the bathroom. Josh tries to open the window to escape. You get that partial palm print on the window, which is matched to Josh.
Either that window doesn't open or he couldn't open it or whatever. Didn't have enough time. Didn't have enough time. Because Benjamin shoots through the door, striking Josh. Then enters the bathroom and shoots him again in the head. Oh my god. At which point, Erica shoots a genie and misses. Possibly on purpose, just to scare her. Okay. And then stabs her in the side. Ugh. Oh my god, this is horrible. It gets worse. Oh no! It does. Oh no! Alright, at this point, Erica goes to get stuff to clean up the bloody bathroom. They're both dead. They're both dead. Okay.
I guess Jeannie died from being stabbed. That is not made entirely clear. Maybe she bled to death? I guess. Yes. Erica, I honestly pray to Satan that this is not true. Oh, no. Because it's terrible. Oh, no. Erica claims she's coming into the bathroom. Erica, one of the worst people on earth, claims she's coming in. She's like carrying paper towels and shit to clean up the blood and flesh that's in this bathroom. She walks in to find Benjamin, or as they keep calling him, BJ. Oh, no. In the hot tub.
surrounded by candles like a 90s music video with the two heads floating in it? What? What? And it was then that BJ removed the bullet from Josh's head in order to keep it. Oh no, this is horrible. The bodies are then dismembered. Did she get in the hot tub with him? No, I kind of think she's making this up to make him sound guiltier than her. Maybe. Because at the trial, they both turn on each other and they both claim the other person did everything. Okay. So I'm kind of hoping that that didn't happen at all because it's disgusting and just...
But it's so weird, and the reenactment is so dumb and badly done. They reenact it? Yes. Oh, God. Of course, this is stuck in my mind, and that's why we're talking about it today. It'll be stuck in my mind forever. So at this point, they dismember the bodies, they dump them in Delaware with its unique dumping system, and then they go to purchase a new bathroom door that doesn't have bullet holes in it. Okay. And she got her tattoo. And yeah, she must have gotten her tattoo at some point. At this point, they go about business as usual, being a fun-loving couple, and go out for a game of mini-golf. Okay.
Because they're the worst people ever. Yeah, just a regular Friday night. At this point, an investigator tells you that no one would believe this story without forensic evidence. And I have to say I agree. Yeah, it's kind of true. Because it's the most bullshitty, far-fetched thing that I've ever heard in my life. Yeah. At the trial, they both accused each other. They claimed the other person did all the killing and that they were only involved in the cleanup. BJ, as I hope no one called him, but seemingly everyone did, was convicted of one count of second-degree murder because he was actually connected to less of the evidence. Sorry, that was my Siri, which is a British man voice. No, that scared us all out.
That was BJ. So BJ is only connected to Josh's murder and couldn't be connected to Jeannie's murder. So he's convicted of second degree for Josh's death. Erica is connected to both murders since she had both IDs. She had the ring. I don't know. Whatever. She gets life in prison plus 30 years.
And then an investigator very calmly says, I'll probably never see another place like this in my career. And hopefully in my lifetime. Yeah, hopefully. And then it just ends. Like, it hasn't just shown you the weirdest fucking shit you've ever seen in your life. It's just like, and we're done. On to the next episode of Forensic Files. As you're going, wait, a hot tub? Peds? Peds? A scrapbook store? I'd forgotten that they were scrapbookers. Because I really just remembered the heads. You know, you can't trust a scrapbooker. That's true. I was like, is it profitable to own a scrapbook store? Because I want stickers. I don't know. Probably not anymore. Well, no, but that was all the planner people. I feel like you could really branch out. Yeah.
You could have like an Aaron Condren. Do you think I could just have like a sticker store? I don't know. All stickers all the time. Is that what it's going to be called? Sure. But that makes it sound like I'm open 24 hours, which is going to be hard to pull off, I have to say. Yeah, because, you know, when someone needs stickers at 1am. Yeah, I mean, sometimes I do. But anyway, I did ask, I did consult with my brother about which episodes of Forensic Files we should talk about today. Which ones that really stood out to him? And he was like, well, heads in a hot tub. I was like, yeah.
Heads in a hot tub for sure. Yeah, I can't avoid that one. We had already talked about Rajneesh, so. Yeah. And Snowball. And Snowball. And I was just thinking about one today that we should still talk about sometime because. We'll just have to do another episode of Frenzy Files. I don't know that we'll find one quite as weird as Heads in a Hot Tub. I don't think so. That was wild. But I honestly hope that's not true. It's bad enough they dismembered them. Those poor couple. They did nothing. Completely awful. They had absolutely nothing against them and just decided to murder them. For some thrills. For some thrills. A thing that I would swear did not happen. Yeah. Yeah. Ugh. And then we're so, like, enjoyed it so much they got tattoos and wore their rings and stuff. And then just went on to rob a hooters. Show some respect.
Just sell your scissors. Yeah. It seemed like they had a pretty sweet life just playing mini golf. Yeah, scrapbook store in the early aughts has got to be you. You're doing fine. You're doing fine. All right. Jerks. That was our Patreon episode for this month. Wait, wait, wait. So I looked into that. What happened with this? Oh, okay. In March?
2010, BJ filed for divorce. Huh. So the honeymoon was over. Yeah. It took eight years, but he decided, you know what? Actually, my wife who turned on me, I don't want to be married with her anymore. They have both made numerous appeals, which have failed. Benjamin exhausted his last appeal in 2010. He will be eligible for parole in 2021. Oh, no. Erica's appeal, citing ineffectiveness of counsel, was denied in 2014. She will be eligible for parole in 2024.
Um, I'm not usually a person that's like, no, leave them in prison longer. Yeah. But, uh, I did not like learning that Ben would be eligible for parole so soon it's unsettling. Yeah. Because these are the worst people. Yeah. This is the most senseless, violent, brutal crime. Yeah. That's horrible. Uh, so hopefully when he's leaving prison, a piano just falls on his head. Let's hope.
All right. Yeah, so that was our Patreon episode for this month. I hope you enjoyed it. I hope you now look at everyone with a little bit more suspicion and we'll go out to get some tattoos so your body parts can be easily identified, but not because you stabbed someone. That's mean. Yeah, no. Just because you want to get Area 69 on your right wrist and then your left wrist get, I don't know, five out of five Robert Stack heads. Yeah. But they're just five little Robert Stack heads. Oh my god, that would be so good. Or like five alien heads out of five Robert Stack heads. Yeah. Show us your Perhaps It's You tattoos. That's right. Hashtag Perhaps Tat.
Perhaps tap. Yes. Yes, perhaps tap. There's so many of them. So many. Be sure to use our hashtag so we can find them all. Yes. Thanks, everyone. Is that it? I think so. Bye. See you later, patrons. Thanks for your money.