Rachael Treasure – Inspired By Nature

Rachael Treasure is one of Australia’s most popular authors of women’s fiction, credited with sparking a whole new sub-genre of rural fiction with her groundbreaking romance, Jillaroo, a book that opened the flood gates for dozens more authors and readers of rural romance and country fiction to follow. In her latest book, White Horses, nearly 20 years later, Rachael continues to smash conventions, blending her vision for a vital and thriving Australian agricultural sector with a young woman’s mystical and romantic quest for identity. Hi there, I’m your host, Jenny Wheeler, and in today’s binge reading episode Rachael talks about dealing with life’s curve balls – and she’s had a few, the boom in Australian women’s fiction, and why she sees her role of mother as more important than any of the other titles like ‘author’ and ‘farmer’ that she wears with pride. Six things you’ll learn from this Joys of Binge Reading episode: Why social context has always been important Why ‘mother’ is her most important role Loving mother nature – philosophy and practice The dark days that prompted a lyrical memoir On cracking the US market Restoring a ‘brutalized’ 100 acres to full health Where to find Rachael Treasure:  Website: http://www.rachaeltreasure.com/ Facebook: @rach.treasure Twitter: @rachaeltreasure What follows is a “near as” transcript of our conversation, not word for word but pretty close to it, with links to important mentions. Jenny Wheeler: But now here’s Rachael. Hello there, Rachael, and welcome to the show. It’s wonderful that you could be here. Rachael Treasure: Brilliant to be with you also Jenny. Thank you for having me. Rachael Treasure – Australian author Jenny Wheeler: You are in Tasmania and I’m in New Zealand. We’ll get that clear for the people listening around the world. We’ve got listeners in Australia and the States, so it’s good to know. Rachael Treasure: That’s brilliant. We say we’re ‘over the ditch’ from you, for those of you who live internationally. We are just over the ditch from New Zealand. Jenny Wheeler: That’s right. You have had the kudos of having kick-started a whole new sub-genre in fiction, and not many authors can say something like this. That was Australian rural romance with your first novel, Jillaroo, back in 2002. Many of the women authors I’ve spoken to over the last 18 months or so all credit you with starting the boom that there’s been in women’s fiction. It’s been nearly 20 years now, and you’ve come a long way since then. The work you’re doing now has gone a long way on past Jillaroo, but tell us about that first iconic book. How did you come to crack that? Rachael Treasure: That goes back to childhood in the sense that my grandmother was a farmer, but she was also a writer. She had radio plays published, I think by the BBC. She wrote children’s books, so when I was growing up, I would see her clunking away on a typewriter. Her name was Joan Wise. Books and indigenous story were a big part of her life, and she imparted that to me back before that was really a thing, so I had this connection between land and writing and the ancient wisdom that comes with indigenous dream stories. Jillaroo was a step along from that. Introducing Rachael Treasure I went to an agricultural college and I’d been raised in Tasmania where the farming system was all integrated, so the bees played a part with the orchards, and the orchards played a part with feeding the pigs, and the pigs played a part with the milk coming from the dairy, and the wool. My uncle and auntie would spin wool by hand. When I went to what we call the mainland in Australia, and I started seeing corporate, commercial, industrial agriculture on a massive scale, it would sit so uncomfortably with me, so when I went to study both agriculture and journalism, I knew I had to tell the feminine story of contemporary rural women. Jillaroo – the romance that birthed a sub genre My first character, Rebecca Saunders, was born. She was a messenger to say that women need to be left land – not just the men on the land title, and women need to be driving forward this integrated system. It wasn’t as clear cut back then. I wanted to write a rollicking tale. Anyway, I worked at my craft for 10 years as a rural journalist, and I joined writing groups back before email was a thing. I persisted and I studied a Bachelor of Arts in Creative Writing as well. Everything was leading me towards this one novel, which was picked up off a slush pile, would you believe? Jenny Wheeler: That is remarkable because as we’ve agreed, traditional publishers are usually not very willing to explore a new thing. I guess there must have been enough that was recognizable in Jillaroo as a rollicking romance to make them think, we’ll do this one even though it’s set in the country. Is that what happened? Finding a mentor and a way Rachael Treasure: Yes, it was. I had gained a writer’s mentorship through the Tasmanian Writers Center and a wonderful poet called Robyn Friend had guided me through story arc and story structure. When I did hand the manuscript in, it was quite sharp, but the publisher – it was Clare Forster back in the day – and Clare said Rebecca Saunders was one of the most refreshing heroines she’d ever read, but could we do something about the swearing? Farm girls can cuss. I don’t think Penguin recognized what they had in their hands at the time, and I begged them to put a cover quote on by a now very famous Australian country musician called Lee Kernaghan. That is not heard of in literary circles – you normally put other author quotes on the cover – but because I was a nobody, they said sure, put Lee Kernaghan on the front cover. That named it up to my readership who are authentic country people. On the original cover of Jillaroo I also requested a real horse and a real farmer and real mountains and a real woman, not the photoshop version of the romantic notion. Since Jillaroo, the genre has almost consumed itself with that romance theme, and I’ve almost written myself outside of the genre 20 years on, which is kind of exciting. Lee Kernaghan – back country flavour Jenny Wheeler: That’s really interesting. Your website these days makes it very clear up front how you see yourself. It’s not a traditional author website because you’ve got it there really bold, right in front of you. You say you’re a mother, regenerative agriculturalist, and author. I wondered if you really do see author as the third string in your bow. Mother first, then the rest Rachael Treasure: I love this question, Jenny. I was pondering it today and I believe that motherhood is the most under-revered role a woman can take. I wanted to name motherhood up first because if we were celebrated first and foremost by our culture as mothers, we wouldn’t be at war with mother nature and putting chemicals on our babies’ food in the paddock. We wouldn’t be sending our babies off to war. For me, motherhood is the most important role. Not to have a perfect house, but to have that innate wisdom that says I am one part in a long, long chain of the future. I want to impart that to my children. The other thing about motherhood is it links in perfectly with agriculture. The earth is our mother. At the moment we are destroying and cannibalizing our mother, so again I wanted to put regenerative agriculture, which is all about partnering with mother nature. Rachael Treasure – Caring for the land is a key passion It’s not about turning hippie and doing away with all the technology we’ve managed to create. Some of the stuff out there is wonderful, but I wanted to say let’s regenerate our mother. All of that experience I have – hands-on on the farm and with my children, goes into the writing aspect. It’s all integrated, but it was a very deliberate move to put mother up there first. Jenny Wheeler: Your most recent novel, White Horses, your seventh novel, brings out that regenerative agriculture theme incredibly clearly. You couldn’t read the book and not know that it’s there, but it weaves beautifully into the story. I don’t believe you feel you’re being preached at, but it seems as if you’ve always perhaps had that sense of a deeper social and generational concern with the stories you’ve been framing. Would that be fair comment? Social commentary with story Rachael Treasure: That is an absolutely accurate comment. I always wanted to write stories that were challenging, but by the end of it uplifting and transformative. Even though I put my readers through some very tough scenes, that’s life. Life throws us some huge curve balls, and it’s how we respond rather than react to those. It has been a very deliberate move to challenge my readers with every book. I could just write a book a year that comes out for Christmas that makes people feel tingly, but I wanted women in particular to pick up these books and feel they can transcend themselves as women, because our culture isn’t teaching us how to do this. The Cattleman’s Daughter – Rachael Treasure I know some readers may turn away and go and read something that’s less challenging, but at the end of the day, you always know with a Rachael Treasure that it’s going to uplift you by the end of it. I’ve even had farmers now who have read White Horses and they’ve come up to me – males – and they’ve said they’re going home to change their land management. I think story is such a powerful tool to transcend what is in the cognitive brain that churns over every day, and if I can make my readers really feel emotion, it may change their actions in their day to day. Rural women finding their place Jenny Wheeler: The central character of White Horses is a young woman called Drift, raised by her father in remote parts of Western Australia, so she’s grown up outside the normal social norms and she probably doesn’t have a very good grip on what is expected of a young woman. You give us a vision of a vibrant and thriving rural Australia, but you don’t dodge some of the more brutal aspects of farm culture as it is. She has to face up to two nasty sexual assaults quite unprotected, and in the environment, it seems fairly hopeless at first that she is going to find justice. I won’t give away any storylines, but there is a sense, at the beginning, that the forces against her are rather too big for her to overcome. Tell us a bit about that. Did you see that kind of thing yourself as a young woman in farming? Rachael Treasure – The Farmer’s Wife Rachael Treasure: I think it’s not just in farming. I had a childhood in Hobart as well, which is a major city in Tasmania. Alcohol is the legal drug of choice for many Australians. We self-medicate on that, and I saw a lot of young women putting themselves at risk in really vulnerable situations. When you dovetail that with a lack of self-esteem – because you have a culture that brings down your power as a female due to media and advertising and pornography. I saw that as a young woman. Without going into details, let’s just say most of my experience and my friends’ – men don’t get. These sorts of situations that Drift encounters never go through a judicial system. It doesn’t get to a legal system because it’s kind of part of the culture. I wanted to showcase that in my character Drift. Strong mystical element to story Drift is a young woman, she doesn’t have access to a mobile phone until much later on in her life. I see the young women in the world now who have these mobile phones and screens that are almost marketing to them what it means to be a woman. That means appealing to men, rather than uplifting and enjoying pleasure and beauty for beauty’s sake. Drift has this wonderful connection with mother nature, and she can get as high as a kite looking at a sunset or looking into the eyes of her working dog. She feels beautiful within the landscape. Never Miss out! Never miss out on the hottest new authors, regular FREE BOOK OFFERS and Most Popular podcasts. Yes please to FREE BOOKS and updates on popular books We won’t send you spam. 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point – misogyny and sexism – you can transcend it. I do put Drift through some grueling stuff, but it’s a transcendent moment. Jenny Wheeler: Yes, it is. It ends up really well. There’s a strong, mystical element which people probably have already picked up on. There’s a sense that nature and the spiritual world has its own wisdom, which we can discover if we open ourselves to it. Even the name of the book – I didn’t understand at the beginning what White Horses was going to refer to, but it has quite an evocative, deeper meaning for Drift in terms of her life. Rachael Treasure – Cleanskin Cowgirls I don’t know if it’s something we want to talk about because it might be giving away a storyline, but she’s a motherless girl being raised in a situation where her mum disappeared at some stage in her life, didn’t she, and white horses have a special meaning for her. Rachael Treasure: Yes, absolutely. So white horses – we’ve always named the ocean, the white caps on the waves, white horses, and I guess when Drift looks out to those white horses, it evokes this kind of mystery of what’s happened in her world. But also, when you talk about spirituality, I’m studying a Bachelor of Science of Regenerative Agriculture part-time. It’s the first of its kind in the world with a university in New South Wales. I love science. Science is now looking at holism and marrying up with spirituality. Borrowing from other traditions Effectively, we are made of carbon. We are made of the same stuff as stars. White Horses refers to the fact that we are all in one ocean. You may be one wave, Jenny, across there in New Zealand, but I’m part of that same ocean as another wave. Drift, being motherless, represents we’re all feeling motherless because we’re disconnected from the earth. Her connection with the sea, to her mother, and of course to the spiritual mother of the land, and then the other wise women, Charlie Weatherbourne and Wilma the traveling librarian – we have these wise women come into the story – they are a representation of how women can transform the earth. There are very subtle messages in there, particularly about cycles of the moon, representations of color. I studied the thirteen clan mothers in Native American teaching of what each moon of thirteen moons of the year represents to women – when they would go into their lodges and seek wisdom. The Thirteen Original Clan Mothers by Jamie Sams You don’t actually feel any of that or see any of that in the storyline of White Horses, right in your face, but it is all embedded there in the research. Jenny Wheeler: That’s what makes it so heartening that White Horses was voted one of Booktopia’s top 20 favorite books of 2019. Booktopia, for people who might not know, is a very big Australian book site, probably the biggest Australian book site, and readers vote for those books. So with these things we have been talking about – the regenerative agriculture, the spiritual aspect – for your book to come out in the top 20, that’s quite a vote of confidence from readers, isn’t it? Rachael Treasure: Yes, and I am so grateful for my readers who are ready to get this, because I think our media like to keep us hooked on junk, the same as our junk food systems. They like to keep us hooked on the junk, so we keep spending and buying all the stuff that has served us well until we were about to become extinct. Grateful for reader endorsement For my readers to have voted me into that bandwidth of commercialism, I am extraordinarily grateful, and honor my readers for going along with me, because like you say, it’s been a 20-year journey and I’ve grown up as a woman in that time. I feel like I’ve had nearly three generations of women growing with me, which has been such a special thing. Jenny Wheeler: The other thing that fascinates me about this whole topic of the Australian fiction market and the rural element is that the vast majority of your readers would be urban, wouldn’t they, because that reflects the population in Australia. It’s vastly urban compared with rural, so you’re educating the rural population. Rachael Treasure: Yes. I get emails from people who are using this chemical on their land, or they’re grazing their animals differently, or they’re even being kinder to their husband because they can see it will benefit them. Never Miss out! Never miss out on the hottest new authors, regular FREE BOOK OFFERS and Most Popular podcasts. Yes please to FREE BOOKS and updates on popular books We won’t send you spam. 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[data-style="minimal"]{padding:20px;width:100%;position:relative;}.formkit-form[data-uid="d471e51619"] .formkit-header{margin:0 0 27px 0;text-align:center;}.formkit-form[data-uid="d471e51619"] .formkit-subheader{margin:18px 0;text-align:center;}.formkit-form[data-uid="d471e51619"] .formkit-guarantee{font-size:13px;margin:10px 0 15px 0;text-align:center;}.formkit-form[data-uid="d471e51619"] .formkit-guarantee > p{margin:0;}.formkit-form[data-uid="d471e51619"] .formkit-powered-by-convertkit-container{margin-bottom:0;}.formkit-form[data-uid="d471e51619"] .formkit-fields{display:-webkit-box;display:-webkit-flex;display:-ms-flexbox;display:flex;-webkit-flex-wrap:wrap;-ms-flex-wrap:wrap;flex-wrap:wrap;margin:25px auto 0 auto;}.formkit-form[data-uid="d471e51619"] .formkit-field{min-width:220px;}.formkit-form[data-uid="d471e51619"] .formkit-field,.formkit-form[data-uid="d471e51619"] .formkit-submit{margin:0 0 15px 0;-webkit-flex:1 0 100%;-ms-flex:1 0 100%;flex:1 0 100%;}.formkit-form[data-uid="d471e51619"][min-width~="600"] [data-style="minimal"]{padding:40px;}.formkit-form[data-uid="d471e51619"][min-width~="600"] .formkit-fields[data-stacked="false"]{margin-left:-5px;margin-right:-5px;}.formkit-form[data-uid="d471e51619"][min-width~="600"] .formkit-fields[data-stacked="false"] .formkit-field,.formkit-form[data-uid="d471e51619"][min-width~="600"] .formkit-fields[data-stacked="false"] .formkit-submit{margin:0 5px 15px 5px;}.formkit-form[data-uid="d471e51619"][min-width~="600"] .formkit-fields[data-stacked="false"] .formkit-field{-webkit-flex:100 1 auto;-ms-flex:100 1 auto;flex:100 1 auto;}.formkit-form[data-uid="d471e51619"][min-width~="600"] .formkit-fields[data-stacked="false"] .formkit-submit{-webkit-flex:1 1 auto;-ms-flex:1 1 auto;flex:1 1 auto;} There’s that, but the urban readers say that I take them on a journey, and I’ve had people say they now shop differently as a result. They don’t just go into the massive corporate supermarket and buy a carrot that is nutritionally deficient. I’ve changed their awareness around shopping, which again comes down to the power of storytelling. In the sites I’ve been studying and the soil people I work with – I work with a not-for-profit called Carbon8 – it talks about farmers putting 8% carbon into the soil, and if we all did that, we would sequester and stabilize all the industrial emissions we’ve put out. Changing awareness through stories One of the devices the scientist is coming up with is a handheld app and you can wave it over a piece of fruit or vegetable, and it can tell you the nutrient density. In the study he did recently, he compared a supermarket carrot with a market garden carrot. You would have to eat 200 supermarket carrots to get the same nutritional value out of the one carrot that was grown in healthy soil. Carbon 8 – a vision for regenerative agriculture So in talking about books, I always veer off into soil, and I apologize to my beautiful interviewers like you, Jenny, but this is what underpins all of it. For me to be able to get my book into an urban person’s hand to say, go to a local farmer’s market and ask if the soil was alive that this food was grown in, then that is powerful, it really is.  Jenny Wheeler: You’re preaching to the converted here, I must admit! You referred to the fact that life delivers some nasty curly things now and then, and you had a particular experience of that which has been very generously shared with your readers. You had a divorce, you lost the farm you were working on, you spent a couple of years in deep soul work as a result of that experience, and out the other end came a painfully honest memoir, a wonderful book called Down the Dirt Roads, which was long listed for the Tasmanian Premier’s Award. Down Dirt Roads memoir Once again, it attracted a lot of attention. It’s a personal story which gave a really transparent insight into what rural women are facing up to. Can you tell us a little bit about that? It must have been an extremely painful thing to open up and talk about it in public. Rachael Treasure: Yes, it certainly was. I wanted to do it with love because I believe everybody that comes into our life is our teacher. I didn’t want to make anybody else wrong in the process of what happened, but, because of my gender, my father opted to keep my ex-husband on the land. I effectively had to leave what I feel was my spirit place, my childhood home, where I used to ride my pony and go for runs and hug trees. I’ve had to rebuild my life with my children away from that place, and I wanted to share that story to say to other women, if you are cast out because of your gender, it’s a chance to grow and it’s a chance to find your power – not in an angry and aggressive way, but really find your power. Down the Dirt Roads – a powerful personal memoir from Rachael Treasure In that 10-year journey, it’s still painful, I still miss that land, I still feel disconnect from where I ought to be in the world, but it’s given me such, what I would call a post-traumatic growth phase of regenerating land elsewhere and knowing that I am exactly where I need to be at the exact right moment and everything that’s happened to me up to this point is meant to be. So there is surrender and acceptance, and also the gift that I can tell story again, to help other people heal. Jenny Wheeler: Over the period you’ve been engaged in your writing, have you noticed any change in how things are for women “down on the farm”? How would you measure your progress, and generically, as a woman, measure that change? Painful journey to surrender Rachael Treasure: I’ve been fortunate enough, in the process of having the trauma in my life, to seek a new tribe, and I’ve discovered the regenerative agricultural tribe. Before, when I was a rural journalist, you’d go into a farmers’ meeting and it was all men – majority of men – and they’d be sitting with that kind of closed off body language. Whoever was presenting that – they’re tough nuts to crack, and farmers who go to war every day, which is what farmers do, generally, they put on their boots and they go out and spray and kill everything to grow one monocrop.  Of course you’re going to be hardened like that. What I’ve noticed by stepping into the regenerative ag world, it’s usually 50/50. There are men, there are women, gender isn’t even an issue. We are so excited by what we’re discovering. Regenerative agriculture regenerates the individual, the family, the farm, the profit margins, it regenerates the ecology. I’ve noticed huge change in the last 10 years, and it’s been such a godsend that I found my tribe in that. Jenny Wheeler: I think now is the time for you to tell us about your own regenerative agriculture project. You are rejuvenating a hundred acres of what you describe as brutalized land in Richmond, Tasmania. Tell us about that, and what is your dream for that land? Rejuvenating 100 Tasmanian acres Rachael Treasure: I have to admit to my beautiful partner, Daniel. He is one of those men who is very masculine, but he’s also balanced in his energy, so much so that all the animals we have on that land come running to him because he has such a beautiful energy. With our land, we took it on three years ago now. It is the longest continuously farmed land since white fella turned up in Australia. It’s in an area where grain was shipped out to Sydney to get them through the famine years in the late 1700’s-early 1800s. The land we walked onto had been leased, it had been cropped, it had been sprayed. The soil was dead. It took us three years to find an earthworm. Using regenerative holistic principles, we have used Aloeburn Poll Merinos, which are a lovely merino sheep that are suited to the Australian environment. Our friends bred those, and we brought thirty down from what we call mainland Australia. Andrew and Jodie Green, of Aloeburn Poll Merino stud, near Boree Creek, in NSW, We have those, and then we have our cow ladies – they are Dexters and they’re light, smaller-framed cattle. These animals are being mob grazed, so we’re moving them daily, and in the space of moving them daily, we’re also using that grazing to regenerate the soil and the soil biology is coming back to life. Working with nature The only input we’ve used is a product called Nutrisoil, which is like a worm juice and a friend of mine, that’s her family product. We’re following the advice of a New Zealand woman called Nicole Masters who has written a book called For the Love of Soil. She is a master in regenerating soil and she’s doing that on a global scale with farmers all around the world. Our dream for Ripple Farm Partners – we call it that because we want to ripple the ideas out – is to convert a huge shearing shed into an information space so we can have field days and we can showcase not only what the profits look like for farming this way, but also how the land feels. When you nurture a diverse ecology, you can actually feel it in your body. We’re hoping we can restore the wetland, we’re planting thousands of trees, and this all has to happen in and around caring for kids and writing a novel. But it’s happening slowly and it’s happening synergistically and beautifully. Jenny Wheeler: I’ve been fascinated by the no dig organic market garden thing that’s happening now, where they turn over, say, eight different crops over a growing season without any chemical fertilizers. There’s quite a bit of that going on in New Zealand and I’ve become aware of it over the last couple of years. It’s one of those things that I think, oh, if I was 40 years younger! It sounds like this is a similar thing on a bigger scale. Would you be able to make a living out of a hundred acres if it was farmed right? Living on one acre Rachael Treasure: Definitely. You could make a living out of one acre, you really could, if you’re vertically stacking and if you’re working within the principles of mother nature. Mother nature is so abundant. People often say, this wouldn’t work on a broad scale or this wouldn’t work in my garden, but it does. We are seeing whole buildings converted in cities to growing food. I think the key to it is soil, that universe of soil. Obviously, you’re a gardener, but they say there are 6 billion living organisms in one teaspoon of healthy soil. If you get that balance right, then we sequester carbon, we put nutrients back into our food, we support other life, not just to feed humans, but other creatures as well. Ian and Di Haggerty and No-till agrictulture The beauty of the internet now is we are able to share this information and we’re not attached to somebody trying to sell us something. Farmers are sharing with other farmers. Regenerative exemplars in WA For example, in White Horses the property, The Planet – which readers will discover is the most beautiful place on the planet – was inspired by Ian and Di Haggerty who are large grain croppers over in WA and they are farming regeneratively. They’re restoring salt-affected land that had been locked up and left. It was marginal land that farmers had given up on, and so when you read about The Planet, you can know that there are people actually doing that in the harshest climates of Western Australia. Jenny Wheeler: That’s lovely, and with the show notes that go with this podcast episode, we put links into all those sorts of reference points for people who want to follow through, so I’ll make sure we get the link for them and put that in. That is fascinating to me – I didn’t know it was a real farm that you’d based it on. Rachael Treasure: With The Planet, that’s more looking at holistic systems about renewable energy and food supply and urban farming, but if people think what I’m writing about is fanciful or fictional, the Haggertys are actually a grassroots movement – a loving, beautiful couple that are honoring the earth, but also producing grain that is so much more nutrient dense than the grain that’s coming out of other farming systems. It’s a case of watch this space and I’m committed to telling story around it. What inspires Rachael’s creativity Jenny Wheeler: Turning to your wider career away from the books, is there one thing you’ve done with your writing career, the writing side of it, more than any other, that you’d credit with being the secret of your success? Rachael Treasure: Success can be measured in so many ways, but I think success is when your children adore you and they are comfortable telling you everything, particularly when mine are teenagers now.  And you are peaceful in your space, from the cows right through to the chickens. Elizabeth Gilbert – Big Magic For me as a writer, I think Julia Cameron’s, The Artist’s Way transforms. I do the morning pages. The other thing that transformed my awareness around the process of writing was Dr Joe Dispenza. He’s into neuroscience. Once you understand brainwave states, you can start to understand where you go as a writer and then you don’t have to push so hard, you can just become in a brainwave state that channels what you need to know without knowing it, if that makes sense. Also Dr. Bruce Lipton wrote a book called The Biology of Belief. If you believe you’re going to get writer’s block, you will get writer’s block, but if you believe there’s a creative vortex out there – I think Elizabeth Gilbert refers to it as Big Magic – but if you know there’s this creative vortex out there that is abundant and you’re still in your mind enough to tap it into your heart, then your writing world is your oyster. On the Wish List for the future Jenny Wheeler: What were your expectations when you started out as an author with Jillaroo and, when you look back, have they been fulfilled or is there something completely different that’s happened? Rachael Treasure: When you’re in it, you can’t see it, but looking back, I think, wow, what a journey, and what an incredible push through to keep writing, no matter what. It’s almost like my novels have been my therapy at the same time, a healthy kind of therapy. It’s better than becoming an alcoholic. What I would most love to do next is crack the United States market, which is something I haven’t done. I think I’ve put that tag of ‘mother first’ so much that I’ve not pushed myself out into the marketplace. I’d love to reach the U S because I think there are so many farmers who are suffering right now and their chemical farming system with the genetically modified crops that will cope with Roundup – they are destroying their whole systems faster than we are. That’s why. Not to become a best seller in the U S. I want to crack the United States so I can find some farmers who are willing and ready to change. Jenny Wheeler: Turning to Rachael as reader, because we are starting to come to the end of our time together, tell us about your reading habits. Do you binge read? We are focusing a bit more on the binge reading side of things because we are people who enjoy genre fiction. What are your reading tastes, and have you got things you’d like to recommend? What Rachael is reading now Rachael Treasure: I don’t read fiction while I’m writing my own fiction because the narrative voice interferes, and if I’m reading really wonderful fiction, you get an inferiority complex. I cannot stop with an Alexander McCall Smith book – The No. 1 Ladies’ Detective Agency. I love his work. My daughter has reading delays because she has cerebral palsy, so her eye muscles aren’t so good. She read me one of his children’s books and it was so good I wanted to read more, from his children’s books right through. I would binge read him. Kayte Nunn’s latest historical fiction – The Last Reunion I find that I mostly read nonfiction. I mentioned For the Love of Soil. I’m reading Tara Westover’s Educated which is a memoir, an American girl growing up in a very fundamentalist family, which is fascinating, and I read for research. I’m reading Raising the Skirt: The Unsung Power of the Vagina, so there you go, I’ve said that word out loud, which is what ladies need to do, according to this book. I’m reading a lot of feminist literature, in the ‘God is good, let’s celebrate harvest sense.’ I binge on nonfiction while I’m writing fiction. My go-to is Alexander McCall Smith and Kayte Nunn. I really enjoy Kayte Nunn’s work as well. She’s put some lovely books out that I’ve enjoyed. Jenny Wheeler: You mentioned the name Joe Dispenza. Is that a he or a she, and have they written anything? Rachael Treasure: Yes. Dr Joe Dispenza. He has written numerous books and he’s got loads of YouTube clips that he’s put forward. If you were doing it all over again . . Jenny Wheeler: Okay. If people want to follow up with that, we’ll be able to point them in the right direction. That’s great. Having looked back over this wonderful arc that you’ve been on, at this stage in your career, if you were doing it all over again, is there anything you’d change and if so, what? Rachael Treasure: That is a very wonderful question. I would have been less hard on myself. I think I was trying to be a brilliantly perfect mummy. I was trying to be everything to everyone. I probably would have stood my ground and said, you know what, you’re bringing me a cup of tea. I’m getting fresh flowers. Never Miss out! Never miss out on the hottest new authors, regular FREE BOOK OFFERS and Most Popular podcasts. Yes please to FREE BOOKS and updates on popular books We won’t send you spam. 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protect me. I was very hard on myself and I think a lot of women do it, I blamed myself for what happened. Coming through that, I now see it’s a cultural flaw. I would have been much kinder to myself. Jenny Wheeler: I think we can probably all identify with that a little bit. Looking over the next 12 months, what’s happening for Rachael the writer? I think you’ve got a new book you’re just finishing now, aren’t you? What have you got under development for the next 12 or 18 months? Plans for the next 12 months Rachael Treasure: We’ve always got the farm. We’ve got some multi-species feeding going in there. In terms of writing, it was due today, delivered, a manuscript called Milking Time. It’s about a Tasmanian girl in the dairy industry, her family are dairy farmers, and she’s so angry with them she becomes a vegan. It’s wonderful, the use of humor to showcase how, if we polarize one another and exist on opposite ends of the scale – I’m a animal product eater, and I’m a vegan or I’m a vegetarian and we clash heads – we are not serving ourselves. This next book is about the divine feminine, the raising of the skirts, because that’s how the ancients blessed their harvest – the women would go in the field and raise their skirts. That kind of book, to deliver that kind of message, needs to be very nuanced so I think I’m going to have 12 to 18 months of trying to soften that. Like you say with White Horses, there’s a big message in there, but it has to be done with love and heart and humor rather than preaching. It’s going to be a big challenge, but there’s that mindset again, that it’s all doable. Jenny Wheeler: When are we likely to see that one published? Rachael Treasure: I’m not sure. I’m yet to speak to the publishers. COVID did such a log jam with the cycling of books through the system, they’re going to have to read it. They may think this is far too full on for a reader just yet, so it may need 12 months of editing. I’ve pushed the bar on this one again. I really want to bring my readers with me on it. Hopefully this time next year, Christmas 2021. Watch this space. It could be earlier. It could have just landed perfectly. I know it hasn’t. Where readers can find Rachael Jenny Wheeler: I get the impression that you do like to hear from your readers. Tell us where they can find you online and how you like to interact with them. Rachael Treasure: I call the social media a black hole. I think it can absorb far too much of our time, so I try not to go on social media. I usually try and post one thing a day on Facebook. For the Twitterers and the other platforms, I’m very lax and I don’t understand it, but my Rachael Treasure Facebook page has day to day stuff about how much washing I’ve let pile up and how unclean my floors are, but it also has me interacting with the animals and what Daniel’s doing on the farm, even my son getting in the football grand finals. It’s a lovely way of having a family of readers around me. I’ve had people who interact there with me. Jenny Wheeler: We haven’t mentioned it at all, but I think that in the past you’ve been very hot on training dogs, haven’t you? You’ve done quite a bit of dog training. Do you still do any of that today? The canine connection – a dog book Rachael Treasure: Yes, I do. I’ve just got myself a little short-haired border collie who has New Zealand bloodlines, the dearest little thing. On my website I’ve got a self-published book called Dog Speak. I documented the journey of my dear old Australian Kelpie Rousie and how I trained him. We prescribe low stress stock handling, so everything we do around our livestock is very quiet and very gentle. The dog training is ongoing. I don’t do it on a large scale to sell dogs, I do it because I love it. This dear little dog is only six months, but she’s coming along. Jenny Wheeler: You do use her to help control the animals, but you do it in a very quiet way. Rachael Treasure: We will do. To send her on a job now would be like asking a kindergarten kid to move a car. I don’t start my dogs until they’re fully mature, but she comes with me. Imagine tapping a balloon and keeping it in the air. That’s all the working dog needs to do – keep the bubble that is the livestock kind of in the air and guiding where you’re going. We are using her energy from a very large distance rather than force, and our animals will follow Daniel anywhere. He just has to walk ahead and they go. Jenny Wheeler: That’s wonderful. Rachael, it’s been fantastic talking, it really has. Rachael Treasure: Thanks Jenny. If you enjoyed Rachael Treasure you might also enjoy. Rachael Johns’ “Entertaining Life Lit ‘- Australian stories originally inspired by Rachael Treasure’s Jillaroo… LISTEN TO RACHAEL JOHNS Thanks To Our Technical Support: The Joys of Binge Reading podcast is put together with wonderful technical help from Dan Cotton at DC Audio Services. Dan is an experienced sound and video engineer who’s ready and available to help you with your next project… Seek him out at [email protected] or Phone + 64 – 21979539. He’s fast, takes pride in getting it right, and lovely to work with. Our voice overs are done by Abe Raffills, and Abe’s another gem. He got 20 years of experience on both sides of the camera/microphone as a cameraman/director and also voice artist and television presenter. Abe’s vocal delivery is both light hearted and warm and he is super easy to work with no matter the job. You’ll find him at [email protected]