Reconstructing Inclusion S3E9: The AI-Inclusion Gap Rarely Talked About

Welcome to Season Three of Reconstructing Inclusion!Who's shaping the logic of AI systems — and who gets quietly failed when they work exactly as designed, just not for them? That's the inclusion gap Amri Johnson and Peter Swimm dig into in this conversation.Peter Swimm is the founder and CEO of Toilville and has spent over 25 years in conversational AI, building systems for companies like Walmart, Chipotle, and Lowe's before leading generative AI work at Microsoft Copilot Studio. He's one of the sharpest voices in the industry on where AI gets inclusion right — and where it doesn't.In this episode, Amri and Peter explore why diverse voices in tech need more than a seat at the table — they need actual influence over how systems get built. They get into the "Devon Avenue" framework for thinking about inclusive design, the accountability gap that shows up when AI fails real people, and why AI companies may need us more than we need them.What you'll hear:Why AI hallucinations are less a technical problem and more a people gapThe difference between diversity in hiring and diversity in decision-makingWhat "who's responsible when the decision is wrong?" looks like in practiceWhy building for failure from day one is an inclusion issue, not just an engineering oneThe data leverage argument: what it means that AI companies need fresh human data to stay relevantAbout the GuestPeter Swimm is the founder and CEO of Toilville, a consultancy helping organizations use AI without losing the institutional knowledge and human expertise that make them effective. He co-founded Talkabot, the industry's first dedicated conversational AI conference, and got his start teaching Chicago communities how to use the internet at the public library in 1996. Peter is a vocal advocate for ethical, human-centered AI — arguing that truly inclusive AI requires diverse voices shaping systems from the start, not just auditing for bias after the fact. Find him at toilville.com.#Inclusion #AI #Algorithm #Leadership #OrganizationalDesign #Diversity #Technology #FutureofWork #ConversationalAIIf this episode got you thinking, share it with someone working in tech, HR, or DEI who hasn't yet grappled with what AI means for their work. Subscribe so you never miss an episode of Reconstructing Inclusion.Let's Connect:https://inclusionwins.com/https://reconstructinginclusion.substack.com/➡️ Subscribe to Reconstructing Inclusion for more unfiltered conversations about the future of diversity, equity, and inclusion (DEI) This is a public episode. If you'd like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit reconstructinginclusion.substack.com/subscribe