Welcome to Season 2 of the Rousin Shine Podcast. A season dedicated to practical insights on how to redesign your career, and a live experiment to test our insights in real life. Featuring us, the Swedish sisters, Justine Rous and Victoria Rous also. Based in the US and the UK, we share experiences from our international lives and careers.
Good morning, this is Victoria from Atlanta. Good morning, Josephine from Brighton. You're not mourning. No, that's true.
Good lunch time. So, this season we have embarked, or I have, and the podcast is embarked on a career redesign journey. So, in our last episode, we gave the introduction of where to start your career redesign journey, including a self-assessment to see where you are at in your own career. Yeah, so if you want to start by that, it's on our homepage, rousinshine.com.
And what we really did is identified four cornerstones of a successful career, held purpose, connection and wealth. Yes, and in today's episode, it's all about working towards your purpose, because we identified that that's where I wanted to start on my career journey. So, whether you feel that you are someone who's already on track in regards to your purpose, you have some clue, or you feel a little lost in what your purpose might be, this episode will provide three practical exercises that will give you insights from your past, present and future, and then we're going to leave all of you listeners and me with actions that we can start with tomorrow. Mm-hmm.
Yeah, so really what we're doing is we are hoping to inspire you that are looking for a new career, but also you who are in the midst of a career and maybe want to check in if you are on the right track, and also all of those of you who lost a career, because that's many, many, many people out there right now. So purpose, I have felt that there's a lot of overemphasizes on finding your purpose, as if purpose is something that is just supposed to magically appear, and we're supposed to know exactly what we want to do, and if we don't, we might feel like a failure. And a lot of studies that have shown that about 20% of us know what our purpose might be, and probably out of those 20% ones they start to do their purpose might realize that that's actually not their purpose. So we're sometimes led to believe that purpose or passion is something that just comes to you as an aha moment, but there's more and more research and thought leaders that are suggesting that purpose or passion or flow, which are connected to your purpose, are developed through what you do and by the action of doing you get to your purpose and your passion.
Yeah, I like that. And I also think we have to realize that there might be some work, you know, to make this happen. And you need to sit down based on all of what you've been doing and do some proper writing and reflection and structure it. Very often I find people, they're waiting for this perfect beach in this moment, but you know, your own sofa at home is also good enough to bring up a notebook and start working on this.
It's interesting. And I know I've probably shared this before, but many of us mistake the purpose for kind of being like a gold list. But I would say it's more about who you are and not so much about what you're going to be achieving, more the why behind the what. That's what you want to look for.
I did share the story of once when I was doing this workshop on finding your purpose together with a bunch of young, ambitious leaders. And they were a little bit frustrated about this. They were like, no, really, why are we going to do it? You know, isn't it better to just define our big goals, right?
What it is that we want to do. And they were talking and discussing this and then at one point, the owner of the company, well, he was sitting in the back of the room sort of said, Hey guys, let me share something. When I was young, like you guys, I sat down and I made myself like three main goals. So he was going to start up at least one company.
He was going to become a millionaire by the age of 30 and something else I forgot. And he said, by the time I reached 30, I had achieved all these goals. And as a result, I felt completely empty because what was there now left to do? If I would have not focused so much on the goals, they would have come up, but rather on who I wanted to be, you're never done.
And I think that's also the beauty of having a purpose. It is more about who you are, the why behind the what from that you can then determine all your goals. So it's not that you shouldn't have goals in life, but the purpose starts out with something bigger. So I mean purpose for us in that sense and from the from the millionaire that you are speaking to or the company leader, it's really about meaning in a sense.
And it's it's working towards the meaning and working in alliance with the meaning that you have for yourself. And what we said that when we started this career redesign journey and podcast season, we really said all purposes is key because we believe that everyone should be able to have a meaningful career. Yeah. And meaning is really something that because we spend so much time in our jobs.
And that's why we think that a successful career has meaning. Obviously, you can have a career that just pays your bill, but in our definition of successful, it's then not successful. It's not giving you meaning. So for a purposeful career, your vacation should really go in hand in hand with your purpose or at the very least, ensure that your career is in line with your values.
Yeah. So how do we get started? Because it's just like I said about the purpose you need to actually sit down and do a little bit of work. So we thought of four aspects that we think are key to consider to really get started.
And the very first one is actually to learn from the past. So I'm going to start out by asking you, Josephine, if you think to your past career or your career to date, which job or project have you enjoyed the most so far and why? When have you been at your best? That's a really good question.
And there are of course many different aspects, but trying to answer that it's so concisely what comes up. One project that I hugely loved was actually when I was working as a master student and we organized a really large conference for peace builders at the UN. So it was with young peace entrepreneurs and we brought them together from all across the world. There were five teams from five different countries and we brought them to the UN and they had a super innovative session on how to create these peace building projects in their local communities.
And I thought about this before quite a lot because there are a number of aspects to why that, which is quite early in my career. Why that was so much fun. And why wasn't so much fun? It was so much fun because it had the peace building part, the meaning that I really, really love.
It had the entrepreneurial side, which is sometimes otherwise lost or has been a bit lost in other parts of my career. It had that young entrepreneurial feeling. When you say young entrepreneurial feeling, what is that to you? So that is people that are coming with an open mind ready to do things a bit differently.
So it's not falling within a certain mold of an organization such as, for example, the UN sometimes or a big corporation. And so the young is probably the innovative part that I like that nothing is off limits. Everything is testable and a bit hungry as well. That's that's young for me.
And then it was the ideal working with a great team, a great team of driven people that all had the idea that we can make this happen. I think those were aspects that I really enjoyed. And then the setting as well. And I think that's important to reflect for everyone's career.
So the setting was a very international context at that time in New York, which at that point was exactly where I wanted to be and provided a lot of opportunities and a lot of connection to to thought, other thought leaders. Interesting. Yeah, I can almost feel the buzzing energy from that. So for everyone now listening, take a moment and just look back to your career and think about where have your highs been?
What have you enjoyed the most? Just like you just when you sort of pinpointing that moment, maybe it's a project, maybe it's a specific position you were in. So just identify those and then do the same and look back and say, where have been your lowest points? What have you enjoyed the least and why is that?
So really it's identifying what you are enjoying when you're thriving, when you're contributing and when you're not doing that so much. And get specific. So really look at what were you doing? Like what were the actual tasks?
What were you achieving? I mean, are you liking this only because it went well? Or did you actually like the process of doing the tasks that were involved? So not just the results, right?
Exactly. And who were involved? Were you working alone or were working with other people? Where were you and try to see and also test because some of those things in the example that I mentioned, fantastic.
But they also suited Josephine 15 years ago. Yeah. And all of those things were not necessarily suit me now. Yeah.
So get a little bit specific when looking into the best and the worst experiences that you've had. Yes. And also I think one more element is looking back to your career to date and ask yourself, which choices did you make? And which ones are you proud of that you really, you know, which stands out as those were great, solid, important choices.
And maybe do you regret any choices or were there choices that you didn't make? So really sort of summing that up and identifying what's your key learning when it comes to your career to date? Do you have any examples? But you're on the spot here of a choice that was, you know, really well made or a choice that you made for the wrong reason that?
Well, I can think of, for example, the choice I made to step down from my career at one point, as we all know, I've spoken about it before. And actually it led to so many great things. So that was an important choice that shaped my entire career. And that was a very value-driven choice.
Yeah. You'd looked really looked into your values and what you wanted to really build and strengthen during that time. And that led to the... Exactly.
So basically I left my job as a managing director and went into spending more time at home at that moment. Because my daughter's really needed me. And that in turn actually led to great things. So that's a choice I'm really happy about.
I don't feel I have any choices that I regret. I can look back some... And I remember, fairly young in my career, being quite frustrated in one position and sort of started to look elsewhere. And I'm so happy I didn't go on with that because I kind of stayed and I stick with it.
And then some new opportunities showed up that were even better than if I would have just jumped ship a few ways. Yeah. So if you are someone who find that you are now looking back and regretting things, then... I mean, there is a real skill in reframing that and then see, okay, so what does that regret telling you in terms of...
You didn't act in accordance with values or you did do something that's wrong and how can you learn from that now? Yeah. So let's move into the now because that's the next step really. We look at the past and then look at now.
So looking at the now, the key thing I would say is to start by identifying what are your values. And I believe that many of us have done this exercise. Maybe you haven't, then that would be great. You should do the exercise.
You could listen. We have a podcast episode which is specifically on identifying and living in accordance with your values. Yes. And there's also a pep sheet that you can download in relation to that.
So there's plenty on this. But maybe if you have done this, actually go and update your values. Are those top five values that you identified? Are they still?
You're at top five because we're not stagnant. And sometimes I believe that we think that we are the person we were five years ago, but we constantly change and you might want to update your values. Yes. And we've also spoken about rules.
And right now, looking at the rules that are in specific relationship to your career, maybe go back and rewrite those rules and visit them. What should they look like? What should it feel like? And go a little bit deeper there.
Another activity that you can do to sort of identify where am I right now is if you could sort of just travel in time 10 years ahead from now and look back and see yourself. So just if you would see yourself right now, 10 years from now, what would you think? What would you see? What would you tell yourself today?
I would tell myself, you're doing okay. You are doing plenty. And I also think I would say, oh, wow, this is a time when you're really building resilience and building a proper and this I go back to my horoscope for this year. I mean, it sounds a bit naive, but I do feel like I'm building a foundation for the next steps on my life.
And I really do want that to be the story when I look back in 10 years to see, okay, really invested this time while being in the midst of as all of us, the global pandemic and having young children with time just is a vacuum like it just gets sucked into. I mean, it's fantastic and lovely. But time just disappear. Did you see my picture on the Thrive article, my Thrive blog with the mom and her little daughter and the mom's working by the laptop and the daughter standing there?
Yes. And I'm seeing a lot of my friends. I mean, it's a guest like this for many people. I know in Columbia.
I know my friends in New York. They're all doing homeschooling still and it's really tough. I'm really feeling with everyone else's who's in that situation. So you would tell yourself you're doing okay and keep on keep on doing what you're doing and keep on believing that you're you're doing the right thing.
I wonder if I would ask myself, hey, Victoria, why are you working so hard? Or maybe I will tell myself, hey, Victoria, all that hard work really paid. You know, you got some really good dividends out of that. So I hope that's it.
I do have that song in my head every day. I'm hustling hustling. That's feel a bit like I do. But on that, I do think where there is this constant wanting to achieve more, hustling, working so hard.
And with that, I agree because I think I have many times, if I would look back 10 years now, earlier, probably, I would say not why did I work so hard, but potentially why did I worry about the small thing? Which is relate to me to worrying so hard. But this is maybe a bigger philosophical conversation. But it of course relates to your health, which is an important part of your career.
Yeah. So, but really everyone, we would love for you to just take sort of a check in with yourself and see how are you doing right now? How are you in comparison to your values to where you're at and how are you doing? So then having reflected on your now and your current situation, we're moving into the future and thinking about your career in the future.
So here really the work comes, right? Where's your direction? We need to do the pre-work, the past and the now, to be able to go to the future, but now the interesting fun stuff comes, right? Yes.
So where would you start? Well, I would go and say, what is my unique contribution? How do I want to add value in my career and based on what I've learned and know that I'm loving and that I'm enjoying, that gives me energy? What do I want to keep for the future?
And is there anything that I want to get rid of? I love that. And I love it with a caveat. Because you say this, what is your unique contribution?
And I think that on the one hand, if you're in the midst of a career change, like me now, you're spending a lot of time reading a lot of inspiring work, finding a lot of interesting ideas, but you also can get this overwhelming sense that everything is being done already. Like there's so many brilliant people doing these unique and amazing things. So I think that the shift you really need to think about is how can, I mean, you could start simpler. You could go, what's my unique contribution or you could start at, how can I actually add value?
How can I help? How can I contribute? And then from there, just by the fact that you are an individual, like no one else, it will be unique. And then you build on that and maybe you will be able to offer something that is truly unique, or you will be at least able to offer something that is helping some other people.
Yeah. Do you see what I mean? Like taking it down a little bit, maybe from the most extraordinary level. But I don't think your unique contribution needs to be that extraordinary.
I mean, it can just mean that this is how you cannot value. And because everyone has their own person, it's their own person, it's going to be unique. So maybe we don't need to make that such an enormous, massive word that really, whoever, but it's more just like, what is it that I can do that is going to make a difference for me and for others? Absolutely agree.
And then another useful idea is to look at what are my alternatives. So if you are someone who wants to redesign it and change your career, what are some of the alternative career paths that I could take? Yeah. Because I do feel a lot of us are probably thinking, okay, I started this and then I worked here.
And so then there are these next following steps, what you should supposed to be doing. But there is no one career that's fit for you. I mean, it's a little bit of how you believe I'm loved. Like, is there only one person ever that you could have fallen in love with?
Maybe. But maybe there are a number of people that you could have had a happy life with. Maybe this is a deep, right? Longer conversation.
But thinking of that, like your career and really seeing maybe brainstorm the idea of what are three completely different things that you could do, one which is in the line with what you're doing and one which is already what you are thinking. But then maybe go a little bit crazy and see what are other alternative plans. And you don't have to do any of those plans, but just to help your mind expand a little bit and then see what are the things and those other crazy ideas that I actually like that maybe you can bring into your less crazy idea. Yeah, I love that.
And I think that's really, really good start. And then it's kind of breaking it down and see how will these careers make a difference to you. And here also we will look at the different cornerstones in what brings you joy, which one corresponds with your purpose, what brings you, you know, all these different elements. But I think that's a great idea to just look at a few different options and then analyze that a little bit and then go for one.
Like this is your plan A, right? This is the one that you're going to go for, but just keep the others as backup plans if you wish. And so when we say that, you should go for a plan to be more practical and suggest that you write it down, the one that you choose or the one that you're going to test or prototype rather. It's not that you're choosing like, now this is what I'm going to do, but you say, okay, I want to become a hairdresser or whatever your change is going to be right out the plan.
Okay, so how would that look? And I would say not in a 10 year perspective, because that's a little bit too far. Then we can be like the best hairdresser in the, you know, in Atlanta, if that's what you want to be in 10 years, but rather in a five year to look at what are the practical steps that would take me to being or to achieving that and then start to break it down. And what are the things that you can start to do now in order to test that?
So this leads us into the final point, really, is going into, so what can we start doing already today or tomorrow? Like how do we move, which is my favorite expression right now? How do we move from inside to action? So what are the things?
And I think that's a great first step, which you just mentioned, does we? The next step would maybe be the brainstorming, unless you think that we have already done that, but the next step would be like you brainstorm your three different careers, for example, you had a couple of thoughts on brainstorming. Well, it's more of a reflection, I guess, on, because we do a lot of that and I work with brainstorming and I find that lately we've become worse and worse at doing brainstorming. We move so quickly into the action or, you know, we pick one alternative, but the whole idea with brainstorming is to generate ideas, just like you said, like generate three different careers, but even before you come down to three alternative careers, maybe look at what are hundreds of different careers that you could take.
And then you can start doing these crazy ideas that could inspire you to get one really great idea. So I'd even say put on a timer, use a big nice beautiful white blank paper, right? And just start right here, there, anywhere, use drawing if you are a bit creative and just realize that this one is not to build on one idea, but to come up with as many ideas as you can. And then you can put in the first class of course in that that I found really useful.
Let's say that you want to explore becoming a leadership consultant, like you are. So the idea then if you put leadership consult, we all done mind mapping and so on, but put leadership consultant in the middle and then just write your three ideas that relate to you to leadership consultant. Then after that, take that. So let's say, say one word that relates to leadership consultant for you, facilitation facilitation, and then rather than think you're leadership consultant, you actually get what's the next that comes up with facilitation, whiteboard next word that comes up to whiteboard.
So you're going to do it like that just to kind of open your mind a little bit, it might not lead to your career, but there might be things that you find on that map that are a little bit interesting to you that you can then pick up on the whiteboard. Sorry for not having more interesting brain connection there. Yeah, so that would be one part on the other hand, whiteboard is sort of like this magical place with lots of space for new ideas so that might be an awesome thing to do. Exactly creativity and yeah.
So that's just a fun and good way of trying to get some new ways of thinking of ideas that you might have had before, but to get some new perspective. Yeah, another way in terms of getting a new perspective is to really get perspectives from other people. So of course, just either just test or do the mind mapping with them if you have someone to do the career mind mapping with. But the other one that I've had it as part of my whole career, I remember in grad school, this was really told us to do this a lot.
And that is the idea of informational interviews. It sounds quite boring, but really connect with people that have the career that you think that you might have. And I think this is actually really relevant in all stages of your career. You might want to call it something else for yourself and for them.
You maybe don't even mention the word informational interview at all, but you really dig in to have conversations with people about what are the most interesting aspects of their lives and careers. And I would advise and that's what we're doing now given the four cornerstones that we have that we think are key for a successful career is that you can break it down to health, connection, purpose and wealth and really see what are their thoughts on those aspects and how are those aspects playing into their career. Yeah, and saying that I think that's also part of the cornerstone of connections, right, when you're designing your career. So maybe that's going to be our next episode.
Do you think just be absolutely? Absolutely. I'm really excited about digging into connection, especially being in the position myself that I'm in Brighton now completely new to this town and really feel this need to start to build connection and also finding that some of the classical things that I would do to build connection are actually not available right now due to Corona crisis. We now have a limit.
I'm not being able to be more than six people in a room. So there are some real constraints that we should talk about connection in this context as well and really give some insights and tips to people how to how to build connection and network in current times. Yeah, that's a great idea and we'll for sure discuss that in the next episode. And so for everyone now, I think the key insight here is to make this happen.
And if you especially if you're really in this but like you are just when you're really looking for a new job now, we need to realize it's kind of a job. There are assignments to do and you need to do the work with yourself to be able to go out and make that happen and really set aside time each day to go into developing your career. And the same goes if you are in a job that you're not super happy about right now. I don't think it's enough to just think about it.
I think you need to sit down, write it down, research, reflect and go a little bit deeper testing start to do many tests. So whatever you can fit into your day, start testing whether those ideas that you've had, whether that is something that you actually really like and whether that is something that you could do something more with. Yeah, exactly. So all of you listening will be in different situations concerning your career.
I mean, Josephine, how would you describe quickly your current situation when it comes to your career? Thrilling, exciting, nerve-ricking and in the midst of redesigning. There you go. And I'm in the midst of my career, enjoying it, being extremely busy.
And nevertheless, I think it's good to take a little time out to check in on how we're doing. So wherever you are, what are the key components to make this happen? And maybe in particular, Josephine, if you are in the point where you're really in need of a new career. Part one that I found hugely helpful the last few weeks is to just make sure that you keep the positive self-talk going.
Listen into yourself if you start to feel less resilient or tired or this is not going to happen or so. Keep that positive conversation going. I hear that I always do it to myself when I'm working out and I can do this. Yeah, you're strong.
I say that to myself when I'm pushing myself actually working out. I don't necessarily say that to myself at 4pm when I'm not sure what to do next. So keep that positive self-talk going. I think it's key.
Oh, that's great. I love that. And another thing that is always important, but in particular, if you're in a situation where you need that energy boost, is to really check in on your energy. And we have a special episode on that on the Five Energy drivers that I also talk about in my book, Everyone to Surf's a Great Manager with Todd and Scott, and really be strategic about it.
And there it's even a self-assessment that you can use. But really look at how do you get energy now that you need all this focus? And then finally, see the big picture. If you are in the situation that I am right now, where you've already started the change, but maybe not exactly where that's going to end up, see the big picture.
Because confidence can go really up and down. You can feel great at some point of the day. You can feel less great later. Remember to take the zoom out perspective rather than get too much into the absolute current situation.
Because things change so quickly. You get one good email, you get one job offer, you feel great about yourself. And then you have other days that are a little bit less happening, maybe. Keep on assuming out when it's like that.
Yes, you're doing great. So, no, but really I think it's important to do that. Peptalk and hear it from each other, surround yourselves with others that gives you positive energy. And that's going to be our next episode.
We might get in a few interviews in between, right Josephine? Yes, practicing what we're preaching, we have some really cool people that are starting to line up to do the kind of informational interview that we were speaking about. We're going to see how did they do their career changes, how did they build well, finding purpose and being connected? Yeah, so if you want to stay on this journey with us and if you think that there might be other people in your network that would benefit from getting a bit of a career boost, please share our podcast with them and give us a great rating on your podcast provider.
And follow us on LinkedIn. We're posting on other channels Instagram as well, but LinkedIn, given that this is so career related, we're posting a lot of insights on LinkedIn. So under Josephine, Ruth, and Victoria, Ruth, Olsen, and you'll get a lot of our latest insights. Yes, so thank you everyone for listening.
Good luck with your careers. And by the way, yes, also feel free to comment on LinkedIn and let us know and we love when you're getting in touch with us. So thank you for doing that and have a great week. Thank you.
Bye. Bye.