Before we get to our show, here is a podcast we think you're gonna love. Are you into the secret histories of exorcisms, Christmas massacres, killdozers, and concert disasters? How about Haunted Mansions, the Philadelphia Experiment, the Dorm of Death, or Candy Corn? Then you're going to love Ghost Town, a hilarious and sometimes not so hilarious twice-weekly podcast. On Wednesdays, we discuss the secret history of an abandoned, unexplored, haunted, or mysterious place from anywhere in the world. And on Fridays, we cover an amazing historical failure from any time in history. Ghost Town is 100% safe and legal. We guarantee it. It's also fun, spooky, and can contain a riot, a massacre, a murder, or an arch deluxe. I'm Rebecca Lieb. I'm Jason Horton. And this is Ghost Town. And you can find Ghost Town wherever you listen to podcasts.
Hello, friends and enemies. Hello, five listeners. It's perhaps it's you time. Hi. That's Samantha. I'm Liz. I might be barely holding it together.
Whatever. This is your favorite Unsolved Mysteries WeRatch podcast. Did I say that right? I don't think I did. Close enough. We don't usually record remotely. It's not our jam. It's been a little bit of a struggle. We're not good at it. We are not good at it. We never claimed to be good at it. And now we need to adapt to our life in the apocalypse. So we're trying. You may have noticed our past few episodes, they start out okay, but by the end, our audio is kind of out of sync. And it sounds like we're interrupting each other even more than usual.
It's so weird. It sounds like, and you know, I edit the episodes, so I might be noticing it more than most people would. But to me, it's like so distracting. We're talking at the same exact time because the platform we were using, Anchor, is really simple and I quite like it. But I don't know if our episodes are too long or what, but by the end of it, it was like our tracks were completely overlapped and you only get one track out of that thing. So I couldn't even separate them. I don't know. So long story short, we're re-recording for the second time this week. Yeah, we've already recorded this episode, but it just, by the end, it was incomprehensible.
It was just long silences and then both of us talking at the same time. It was extremely annoying. So we're going to try this again. We're going to prevail. We're using Zencaster today. So if this works out, they should totally sponsor us. We'll see how that goes. God damn it. We're trying. We're doing our best. We're really doing our best. We're going to talk about this subpar episode of Unsolved Mysteries. I don't really want to talk about it again, but here we are. That's not even worth the effort, right? I mean, our listeners are worth the effort, but I just wish this episode was better so it would be more enjoyable to talk about it a second time. I don't know. I agree. Like you said, we're doing our best.
Yeah, there's some episodes where I feel like I could talk about them forever, and this is just not one of them. So, hey. whatever is there anything you wanted to update our listeners on i mean no i'm not doing anything i spend every day playing like hours and hours of animal crossing so i have literally nothing nothing no no updates haven't solved any mysteries uh how about you what have you been filling your time with i saw you were making some masks i've learned i finally figured it out i learned i made a kind of a dud mask last night after we recorded and today i made a successful mask so that's very exciting so i'm gonna try to whip some of those up um and maybe we can talk more about that at recommendations time. Sounds good. I recall from the last time we recorded this that I had owed you an apology. Oh, that's right. Yes, tell me again. I could listen to this all day. Which is that I re-listened to our Mothman episode that had previously been Patreon content and we released it from the vault when we could not bring ourselves to record because life was too depressing. And having re-listened to it, I realized that I am wrong and no one describes Mothman as a man-sized moth.
Like no one. Thank you. Thank you. I feel so vindicated. You were saying half man, half moth. That's true. Really, people say it's like a bird-like creature. It's almost half man, half bird.
Yeah, I sort of forgot about that, too. And I don't know if I was just, like, dazzled by the booty on that statue or what. I think the statue is very confusing. It's not actually clear how he became Mothman. I saw on Twitter, and I don't know if this is accurate because I have not fact-checked that at all, but the title Mothman was kind of a joke. Like, it was kind of making fun of people, and the Batman TV show was on all the time, so it's like, oh, you saw Mothman? Like, that's not scary. But, you know, he didn't call himself Mothman. He earned that nickname, but it was kind of a cruel nickname, maybe.
was so focused on the statue not being accurate like no one described mothman as a super buff dude with the head of an insect and then like broken up butterfly wings that i forgot that what they were actually describing is kind of like a giant terrifying bird with eyes so red they burn your eyes when you look at them Right. Yeah, I don't know how that statue came to be because someone pointed out, I think it was you, because that picture was posted in our Facebook group, that it has chest hair? Yeah, chest hair that kind of looks like worms. It's honestly really gross now that I've noticed it. Yeah, I don't like it. I don't want to shame the artist for being clearly so horny, but that's just really not, I think he just heard the words moth man and he was like, okay, I can make a man that's a moth. He didn't look into it any further because it's just like cut abs, cut booty, weird insect head, weird worm chest hair. He's kind of like tattered up.
Butterfly wings? I don't know. Look, if it brings more tourism to Point Pleasant, bless them. I think we actually get to go to the Mothman Festival. It doesn't get canceled. I'm going to look forward to getting my picture in front of that booty. I mean, of course. That has to happen. But that's not to say that that's what Mothman looks like. No one described him as having a really tight ass, to my knowledge. Doesn't mean he doesn't have one. It's just we don't know that. That's right. We don't know that it's not true. Someone brought up this theory in the Facebook group, and I've sort of had it independently theory. Have you seen a picture of those harpy eagles?
Those giant ass birds. They are the weirdest fucking things. They are, yes, giant ass birds that do not look real. That look like some sort of dark crystal Muppet. That don't seem like they're from this earth. And I realize they're not indigenous to the Point Pleasant area. They live in Central South America. But the Tiger King has taught us that lots of people have animals that they should not have. Perhaps what people saw in the woods was one of those fucking things. Because that would scare me to death. If I saw that thing in a tree, I would absolutely fucking think I was looking at a cryptid.
And it's huge. Yeah, they're as big as a man. So that is my current theory, is that people, it probably wasn't an interdimensional being coming to warn us about a bridge collapsing. considering all the things mothman has failed to warn us about uh i'm i'm leaning towards someone saw one of those harpy eagles that doesn't it doesn't explain the red glowing eyes but maybe that's like a reflect in the night or something sure in the headlights perhaps i did notice someone posted in our facebook group that the mothman statue is wearing a mask so uh mothman is practicing appropriate social distancing and following the cdc's guidelines do you think he's still running besides cars like stay home i hope he's doing it at a six foot distance I saw that in Italy, some mayor is using drones to, like, yell at kids that are out. That's the best use of a drone I've ever heard of. Like, this drone, like, sweeps in and is literally going, this is the mayor. Go the fuck home. Which I really respect. Yeah, that's pretty great. I hope everybody out there is hanging in there. We know a bunch of our listeners still have to go to work, still have to, you know, deal with this madness. So we hope you're hanging in there. And, you know, we made this for you to give you something to listen to in these dark times. Yeah, I hope you enjoy it. And, yeah, we hope you're staying safe. Yeah, because.
it's wild fortunately minnesota i mean knock on wood so far has it's been a more minor outbreak than other parts of the country so uh just speaking for myself i don't know anyone who is ill for the time being so i mean that's let's hope that continues so that's less oh yeah i don't know absolutely it's been uh it's been a crazy time it has if i hadn't said that you wouldn't have known but guess what it really is crazy okay let's start off we're on season five episode five and samantha's gonna start us off with a wanted Yes, we have a wanted. We're looking for David Gordon Smith. So apparently in Oklahoma, you purchase your license plates from private companies called TAG agencies. And Unsolved Mysteries tells us that these are frequent targets of theft because people want to, they don't keep a lot of cash on hand, but they do have license plates. So people want to steal them to put on stolen cars. It makes sense. You know, before there was, I'm sure there's technology now and maybe there was to some extent back then to like look up license plates, but this.
was a frequent target of thievery. So even at the beginning of, you know, the information age, there would be a significant lag in databases. So if you could get a new license plate on a stolen car, I imagine it would be a little bit before they figured out that license plate was stolen. I think it gives you a leg up probably. Yeah.
So 25-year-old David Gordon Smith and another man robbed a licensing station at 8 a.m. on September 1st, 1978 in Catoosa, Oklahoma. Police Chief J.B. Hamby, which R.I.P. J.B. Hamby, but that name sounds super made up. How is that real? It really sounds... So J.B. Hamby was the only police officer in this town, and that is like... Are you required to have that name if you're the only sheriff in town? We talked about this last time, but I'm still very amused by the idea that he's literally the only law enforcement in town, because I just imagine he goes on holiday and then the purge happens.
If he takes a day off, like, does everyone know? And they're like, well, today we robbed a bank. JB Handy's home with the flu. I am imagining this tiny Oklahoma town, Katusa, Oklahoma. And all of a sudden you're hearing like the purge sirens going off. And everyone's like, oh, JB took a day off. Everybody's cartwheeling down Main Street in very theatrical masks with like flamethrowers and shit. Spikes on outside of their minivan. It's the purge.
Well, unfortunately for these license plate robbers, J.B. Hamby was on duty this day. They picked the wrong day. They should have done it on Thanksgiving. So police chief J.B. Hamby responded to the robbery. When he arrived at the station, he was met with gunfire and a shootout began between him and the two robbers. During this time, one robber was killed and Smith was injured. Amazingly, neither of the two women who were working in the store were injured. However, J.B. Hamby was shot by one of the robber's bullets. After Smith fled the scene, J.B. went to a laundromat next door to try and get help. He unfortunately died from his wounds. In Unsolved Mysteries, they do a reenactment. Honestly, the reenactments in this episode...
are pretty good. I think very good. Yeah. I thought the reenactments for this were top notch. It's very good. It's pretty sad. So he's lying on the floor in the laundromat and a woman runs over to him and realizes pretty quickly that he is a goner. He's probably not going to survive this. And so she kind of talks him through it and she recites the Lord's Prayer with him.
It's very sad. So two hours after the shooting, Smith was arrested at a local hospital while being treated for his wounds. He was charged, tried, and convicted of JB's murder after it was determined through ballistics tests that his gun was the one that killed Officer Hamby. In June 1979, Smith began serving his life sentence. While in prison, he became a model prisoner. Always suspicious on this show. Don't trust him. We talked about this the last time we recorded, but they only bring this up when someone goes on to escape.
Most prisoners are model prisoners, but like for some reason they are like, oh, you know, something bad is about to happen because he was a model prisoner. I mean, I'm sure we're not talking about people who, you know, just served out their sentence and went home. Like that's not an unsolved mystery. So we're only talking about people who deceived the system by pretending to be good. And then, yeah, it's a way of them saying like, look, we're not to blame. This guy was a model prisoner. Obviously, we let him just do whatever he wanted.
He was well liked by both the prison staff and the other inmates. And this is something that I've never heard of, but he gained trustee status in the prison and even began living in a house on the prison grounds. Yeah, that's really super weird. He's like a pioneer of the tiny house movement. He gets like this little shack on the prison grounds where he just like is kind of coming and going as he pleases. Like they do check up on him, but he's not guarded regularly. So he's kind of just left to his own Davy Crockett devices. Yeah, it's quite odd. I've never heard of this trustee status. Also on June 26, 1982, he was allowed to get married.
That does happen, though. I mean, that does happen, but it seems like his wife was allowed to come and hang out with him in his tiny house. So weird. Which I don't think that happens very often, as far as I know. No, that doesn't really sound like prison so much. Yeah, not prison. In 1984, he was granted a parole hearing, and he claimed that he was a model prisoner and would be a good citizen. He claimed that he had a support system in his wife and that she would keep him on the straight and narrow. However, his parole was denied because there was a public outcry.
I mean, yeah, that makes sense, right? Kind of does. Did the public know he was living in a tiny house outside the prison? It's like, why even bother paroling him? He basically lives on the outside. For another year, Smith remained in prison. He continued to be an upstanding citizen inside the prison. And then on October 28th, 1985, a prison guard discovered that he was missing.
Yeah, but how did he discover it, Samantha? He had put a mannequin in his bed. Yes! Which is a dream of mine. I wish I could somehow trick someone by putting a mannequin in my bed, Ferris Bueller style. It's just so 80s and so cheesy, and I don't understand why people just have mannequins around. Well, I mean, how did he have a mannequin? Okay, we're going to know how he got the mannequin, but his wife snuck it in. How did she sneak in a whole fucking mannequin? Because there's no one around. I bet she could drive up to that tiny house, drop off a mannequin, stay for three days, and drive away, and I don't know that anybody would have known.
So authorities believe that he was picked up by his wife, whose name was Jo Beth, and they vanished together. It was discovered that a week before the escape, she had closed her bank account, sold her furniture, and borrowed $1,000 from friends. Which is rude, because you know she's not going to pay those friends back. Oh, yeah, she does not intend to pay anyone back. Jo Beth, that's not what a friend does. In February 1986- Jo Beth, are you listening? That's not how borrowing money works. Yeah, you can't just borrow money to help your husband break out of prison and then expect to not pay back. It's just rude. That's very rude. Emily Post would frown on that.
In February 1986, the Smiths were spotted at a gas station in Arkansas, but they once again disappeared and have not been seen since. So the update is that they were captured. After the case was re-aired in March 1993, Smith was arrested. Robert Stack is really funny. He kind of takes a moment to pat himself on the back for catching them a second time. Yeah, okay. Because as you know, as we often know in the show, we should expect the unexpected. And apparently they re-aired the episode and then someone called in with a tip.
Wow, okay. An anonymous tipster told authorities that he was working as a service manager at an automobile dealership in Spearfish, South Dakota, using the name Gary Johnson. After his arrest, he readily admitted his true identity. Joe Beth was also located. He was returned to a maximum security prison in Oklahoma and convicted of escape charges. He received an additional four years. He was denied parole again in 2008. Joe Beth passed away in 2003, and JB's brother, who was interviewed for Unsolved Mysteries, kind of talking about his brother and what kind of guy he was, he passed away in 2017. That's sad. Yeah, this one is kind of a bummer.
I like the mannequin part. I think the reenactments are good. It's kind of forgettable. That's sort of the theme in this episode is it's all kind of forgettable. I don't know. Smith has like a very Jeffrey Dahmer look to him. Yeah, particularly by the end when they catch him, he's got the glasses going and you're like, ooh. And the mustache. That's not good. Yeah, I don't know. He's got quite a creepy look going on. He's a creeper. Yeah.
Is there anything else to say about that? Not really. Nope. I hope I don't have to talk about it a third time. Let's pray to Satan on that one. Okay. So now we have An Unexplained Death, which opens with Robert Stack waxing poetic about sunsets in Mexico, which are apparently the only reason there's tourism. This is the story of Joe Amando and his brother Mario. Specifically, it's the story of Mario, who go on vacation with their girlfriends, who I believe are not identified by their real name. So we have Mario is there with his girlfriend Paula.
And Joe is there with his girlfriend, Debbie. They are leaving Los Angeles to go to Rosarito Beach in Mexico. This is in June 6, 1992. And why were they there? Oh, to party. If I was not clear about that, they were there to party. A really bad reenactment of them dancing and drinking tequila. I don't know. It doesn't look like a good party. I'll say that much. So they arrived around 1 a.m. on the morning of June 6, which that's not how I like to travel, but whatever. And they're staying at a condo owned by one of Paula's relatives. So Paula is Mario's.
girlfriend anyway so they um were partying until 3 and 30 in the morning when joe and debbie decided to go to bed oh i'm so tired you travel all day you get there at 1 a.m and then you party till 3 i don't yeah i don't know it's wild i couldn't do it um mario was 29 at the time which honestly sounds a little old for this kind of behavior okay So around seven, Joe and Debbie are awoken by the sounds of Mario and Paula arguing. Mario comes into Joe's room and says that he's really annoyed and that he wants to go home. And I think they were like, it is seven in the morning. We have gotten less than four hours of sleep and you are going back to bed. However, Debbie was worried that something was seriously wrong because he knew that she he was like really into this girl and wouldn't just complain about nothing. But a few hours later, everything seemed fine. There's like a reenactment of them hanging out at the beach and like all getting along. And later that afternoon, Joe and Debbie decided to go for what's described as a romantic drive down the coast.
Around this. Yeah. I mean, that sounds great. I would love to do that. So at the same time, Mario and Paula get into another argument during which she kicks him out of the condo. And like, he refuses to leave because he doesn't have, I think he's just in his boxers or maybe just in like swim trunks. So he is refusing to leave. And so he gets clothes. She like throws clothes out the door. It's like this big scene, you know, and she calls the police because she wants them to take him away. And he's arrested for public drunkenness and disorderly conduct. He's taken to the local police station, but is not formally charged despite being put in a cell.
so around 6 30 joe and debbie come back to the condo they're surprised to find that there's no one there and they had also asked for um his brother to leave the key under the mat so they could get in so the key isn't there so they're kind of standing around like uh what are we supposed to do when a housekeeper comes by i guess she like works for the complex or something i'm guessing these are all like tourist homes and she told them like oh yeah there was some trouble earlier and the police came and they're like what so debbie ends up crawling through a window to get back into the condo and just a few seconds after doing that the police show up and they ask to talk to paula um But which is like super weird. And when they ask why they want him to talk to Paula, they're sort of like, oh, no reason. We just need to follow up with her and ask her some questions. And they're like, well, she might be over at the bar. Go have a look. So after they send the police away, Paula comes back and for whatever reason, acts like nothing is wrong. It's bizarre. And at one point, don't they ask her where he is? She's like, oh, he's probably passed out in a ditch somewhere. Yeah. She doesn't tell them that she called the police and he was arrested. So they have no idea where Mario is, despite the police coming by, since they didn't say anything either.
So about two hours later, the police come back and inform... you know the three of them joe debbie and paula that mario is dead he's asked to come with the police detectives to the police station to identify the body he is like at first thinking like this has to be a mistake um why would my brother even be here because he doesn't know that he doesn't even know that he was in jail in the first place so um he goes to identify his brother's body and he's shown photographs of his brother and um is told you know this is like the most bullshit story he is told that mario hanged himself with a sweater off of the bar of like a cot in the cell that is three feet off the ground yeah that's extremely suspect it doesn't even sound possible i i don't know why he would even be wearing a sweater i don't think you can hang yourself from three feet off the ground i don't think the material of a sweater would allow you you to strangle to death i mean i haven't tested it but it doesn't sound real legit so um joe is like so overwhelmed and he's like can i talk to other people that were at the station and were witnesses to this and they tell him that all of them are asleep even though it was 5 p.m
yeah like oh they're all asleep what kind of what it's just like something a child would make up it's very like oh i'd like to talk to um whoever was around at the time my brother died oh yeah we'd love for you to talk to them but um they're asleep oh really when oh can i talk to them when they wake up uh no because they're um sleeping forever forever it's just like not it's a terrible life okay um So Joe is forced to return to the United States without his brother, well, his brother's body. The Mexican authorities did an autopsy, and it was completed later that week, and it showed there was a lack of oxygen to the brain, and it was conclusive with him hanging himself. However, Joe knew this was bullshit, so he contacted his congressman, Howard Berman, who we hear from, and he also found that very suspicious. Another reason that that's suspicious is that it violates international agreements between the two countries.
If a U.S. citizen dies in Mexico, the Mexican authorities are supposed to notify the U.S. counselor right away, and they hadn't done that. So that allowed Joe to get the body from the Mexican authorities and have another autopsy conducted on Mario in the U.S. The U.S. pathologist concluded that there were internal injuries to his liver, that it would look like he had been punched very hard in the abdomen, and that because of those injuries, he probably wouldn't have been able to hang himself, and that it was more likely that he was murdered to cover up abuse. So the U.S. authorities rule it a murder instead of a suicide.
Okay, so then with pressure from the United States, the Mexican authorities are forced to reopen the investigation. They exhumed Mario's body. There's yet another autopsy, and it has shown that, yes, it really is a murder. So the unfortunate part is that this is resolved, but it's not super satisfying. This is from Unsolved Mysteries Wiki, by the way. Thank you to them always. As a result of the January 1993 autopsy, enough evidence was found to prove that Mario was murdered. Specifically, fibers found embedded in his neck were determined to come from a rope, not a sweater. Because, yeah. It is believed that Mario was severely beaten in his jail cell and strangled with a rope prior to having his death scene staged to look like a suicide.
Four months later, in May 1993, a former police officer named Jose Flores was arrested for the murder. Two witnesses claimed that they had seen Flores enter Mario's cell, struggle with him, and later wrap a sweater around his neck. He was tried and convicted of intentional homicide in Mario's death. In 1996, Flores was sentenced to eight and a half years in prison. However, the conviction was overturned four months later and he was released. Other inmates testified that they had seen Mario beaten by an officer. However, they could not identify Flores as the attacker. The murder of Mario Armando remains unsolved. According to some sources, it is believed that two officers were involved in the murder, meaning that at least one of the killers remains unidentified.
so what it sounds like the problem is that clearly mario got into a struggle or just suffered abuse from these officers but it's hard to identify which officers were involved right um it's sad and it's not this must be so frustrating for the family because we just kind of don't have enough evidence to go on and it's very senseless i don't know it's frustrating and then paula's behavior is super weird yes very weird shitty person like i kind of wonder I thought they were going to get back to the condo after the police were called and they wouldn't have a place to stay. And then they would find out Mario was dead. But instead, Paula just acts like everything's fine. I think she didn't want to admit she called the police on his brother. But like, that's going to come up sometime. You can't not find out. So I don't know that she was like involved in his death, but she definitely made the situation worse and more confusing. Oh, absolutely. It's not clear to me if he really was drunk at the time or he just got into an argument with his girlfriend. Perhaps there was some sort of drunken altercation with one of the police officers that escalated really quickly. It's hard to say. And I just don't I don't think we'll ever know.
No, it's pretty sad. Yeah. So that's that case. I'm frustrated to talk about it again because it's really, really hard to say that someone didn't hung themselves. And that's not the word. Yeah. It's really hard to keep saying hanged. And I don't want to talk about it anymore. Okay.
Hopefully it's the last time. All right. We have another unexplained death. This episode is full of them. Okay. Oh, I did name Mario's mustache, by the way. It's not a great mustache, but I called it the suspicious circumstances. So there's a ton of mustaches. It's that mystery specifically, like when the reenactment, like police posse shows up, they all, it's like a, they're in like a V formation and they all have like the same mustache. Yeah. It's a mustache brigade. Clearly.
And it's all the same long, heavy mustache. It looks hot, honestly. Not like attractive, like warm. Those upper lips are sweaty. Yeah, no, thank you. All right. Well, this is the unexplained death of Ed Baker. And involved in a burning car, everyone. It does indeed. And Ed Baker looks like a cartoon character. I don't know. He looks like the banker in a cartoon. I think he looks like an extra on Cheers, like maybe one of Frasier's friends.
He just has this, like, very 80s pompous, like, a certain type of balding, a certain type of, like, double-breasted jacket where you're just like, this guy is going to tell me about his time at Cambridge. No thanks. 100%. All right. Ed Baker was a wealthy Texas millionaire who made his fortune through oil, which is something that a cartoon villain would use. True. True. He founded Vanguard Groups International, one of the fastest growing businesses in the United States, alongside his second wife, Mary Walker.
according to her she's no relation uh what if you had some of this oil money though uh i would feel guilty about it but it would be great sadly not the case uh people tended to trust ed and were willing to invest in his company she hilariously like gives him a lot of props for being like one of the like an innovative like tax shelter he was really innovative in evil like he really took evil to places it hadn't been before it's funny the way she talks about it because she's she's talking about it like it wasn't illegal when he was doing it but like it was still clearly wrong it's just like they identified a loophole that hadn't been closed yet and he was taking advantage of it and she was talking about it like it used to be okay because it wasn't illegal now it's wrong because it's illegal but at the time he was a genius This woman really respects the letter of the law in a way that I do not, frankly. So that's what he was all about. He started promoting oil well exploration in 1980. After the business prospered, he developed a bit of a midlife crisis. In March 1984, he divorced Mary after 10 years of marriage, spent his time gambling. He got two facelifts, bought an expensive new Jaguar. And then in September 1984, he married again, only to divorce that woman 11 months later. You know, I used to be really scared of the idea of a midlife crisis. And eventually I realized it's all crisis.
Yeah, you're never not having a crisis. Yeah, yeah. You don't wait till midlife. Like, it's just all crisis. Don't worry about it. Yeah. Anyway, after marrying and then divorcing after 11 months, he married another woman. Her name was Sandra Hoff. Two months later, she was one of his employees. Soon, the business started crumbling and Ed started spending investors' money to support his extravagant lifestyle.
Huh, where have we heard that before? His attorney, whose name is Ward Boosie. Also made up. For real, Ward Boosie. If this was on Beyond Belief, I would be slamming the fiction button so hard. Fiction, fiction. Ward Boosie warned Ed that he could face jail time if he continued to, yeah. Be a shady motherfucker. Pretty much. In October 1985, Vanguard's investigators were demanding money from Ed. However, the company was on the edge of bankruptcy. Money! Money! Money!
Does it work? It's not going to work for me, but maybe it would work on talking to an oil tycoon. As I usually am. Yeah, definitely. That's our business partner. Our target market is oil tycoons. They love this podcast. So Ed allegedly arranged a cash bailout with a suspicious source. He asked his private investigator, Bob Gale, to run a background check on the source from which he borrowed money. The money source seemed to have mafia connections. Hmm.
Not great. Ed seemed unable to reverse his downward spiral. At around 7.30 p.m. on November 6th, he showed up at Mary's home. That's his second wife, the one who's on Unsolved Mysteries, the first one that we were talking about. I know the number of wives is confusing. He showed up at Mary's home in a state of emotional disarray. He alluded to the fact that someone was after him, and he claimed that he had been receiving death threat letters at work. But what does the phone call say? It said, this is your day to die. Normal. Totally normal. I get like two or three of those a day.
Oh, yeah. You know when you're insulting the flag of this great nation and then people are sending death threats and one-star reviews on iTunes and Apple Podcasts? Just kidding. No one's ever sent us death threats. There was that one person who was upset that you wouldn't salute the flag. I can't imagine listening to the show on a regular basis and that being the thing that bothered you. There's so many other things to be bothered by. Whatever. That person's super into flags. I can't explain it. Look, everyone has a line in the sand and you fucking crossed it. I sure did. So Mary urged him to contact the police, but he claimed that they would not be able to help them and then he left.
Okay. Ed sent Sandra to Austin, that's his current wife, as a precaution, and he holds himself up in their home. If you're going to die under suspicious circumstances, could you try having a less confusing number of wives, please? Thank you. I would appreciate that. Going forward, everyone could just keep the number of wives down if you're going to die under suspicious circumstances. Seriously, make it easy on podcasters, okay? We're not the brightest bunch, and we get confused easily. So he spoke to Sandra on the phone about an hour after midnight. He told her that he had received another call threatening his life.
It's your day to die. I'm sure it sounded just like that. It's like, you won Publisher's Clearinghouse acceptance. It's your day to die. No, no. No.
Two days later on November 8th, Ed's Jaguar was found burning 20 miles outside of Houston with a charred body inside. The body was so badly burned that you weren't even able to identify the sex, but forensic analysis confirmed that it was Ed Baker. Also found in the vehicle was a burned up .32 caliber revolver. It was found on the floor of the car. There was an indentation in the firing pin which indicated that one shot had been fired and then five additional shell casings had exploded from the heat. Do you know how they identified it as Ed's charred remains?
They didn't say, so I don't know. I mean, maybe it was dental records. This was before DNA testing, I believe. So that's the only thing I can think of. Or maybe he was wearing a really expensive watch. Because I kind of lean towards this guy faking his own death. So I was kind of wondering. So there's like three different theories. And I think Liz's theory is the most out there, but it's also the most exciting. So who knows? But this story continues to get kind of wild. So they also found three one-gallon gas cans in and around the car. And then just a few hundred feet, investigators were surprised to stumble upon a second,
body. This was the body of a young man in his early 20s. They had been handcuffed and beaten to death. They originally thought that this person may have been involved in Ed's death because it was like a few feet from where his body was found. However, it was later determined that the man had been killed in a drug deal and it was unrelated. That's my favorite part of this whole episode. It's just like bodies laying all over this place. Like if you're ever watching a crime show where they're digging up a backyard and they find one body and then they find another body and it's like, oh my god, we've got a serial killer. This whole backyard is skeletons. But in this case, it's like they're investigating one body.
They go a few feet, they find another body, and they're like, oh, that's weird. That has nothing to do with this. I mean, again, if this was beyond belief, we would be like, fiction! Fiction! But this actually happened. So that same day, a letter arrived at the office of Ed's attorney. It said, dear Ward, if you are reading this letter, it means that I am dead. I have had some threats on my life. You've been a good friend to me. Take care of Sandy and the kids. I'm fucking writing one of these letters. I want it to be like, Samantha, if you are reading this, I am dead. Please take care of my dogs. That's kind of amazing. I think we should all have a letter like that. Just hidden away. If you're reading this, I'm dead. Yeah. I don't know. Where do you put that in like a safety deposit box? There needs to be like an app for that.
right like the best app idea i've ever heard in my life i will invest if someone will make that i don't know how you could like if someone submits like an obituary i don't know how you confirm that the person is dead but then it like will release to like you can like put in the person's email and it'll like email you the letter them the letter like upon my death i don't know someone come up with that and the the little logo is shaped like a little coffin you just put in all your death wishes and then people are aware like it's like oh yeah already a thing it needs to be it probably is it's like organ donor cremation play these songs at my funeral and then it's like here's the letters to send out if you are reading this i am dead So, unclosed was another letter that Ed wanted Ward to send to Sandra and his children. Sandra believes that Ed was the victim of a mafia hit. That's theory number one. An eyewitness did report seeing an unidentified pickup truck fleeing the scene of the fire. However, the police have theory number two, and that is that Ed committed suicide. They learned that shortly before his death, Ed had called his life insurance agents. He specifically asked if his policies would pay in the event of a suicide. One policy that Unsolved Mysteries Wiki hilariously has listed as $5,000, but I'm pretty sure it was $500,000. That's a really small policy for a rich guy to have. That would not cover his funeral. I refuse to believe it was $5,000. Look, if you're planning on...
Taking your own death or committing suicide, you cannot call your life insurance policy and ask if they'll cover it in the event of suicide. You have to just read the fine print. That's way too suspicious. Yeah. Don't be calling every one of your life insurance policies. And then when you find out that one policy does not pay in the event of suicide, die the next day. My family really needs that five grand, though. Better get a skeleton. Yeah. So quick, normal question. Does this policy pay in the event of my suicide? Oh, it does not. Oh. All right. Thank you for your time.
He's off to the Halloween store to get a skeleton. So investigators believe that Ed shot himself in his vehicle and that he had an accomplice set fire to the car in order to make it look like a homicide. This honestly is almost as far as to me as faking his own death because I really think, this is grim to think about, but I really think he could have started the car in fire. He had gasoline cans all over the place, then shot himself. They were trying to make it sound like there's no way he would have burned himself alive, but that's probably not what he did. You could have easily started the car in fire and then completed suicide before you got horrendously burned alive.
Not everyone is as good at multitasking as you are, Samantha. I don't know. He was a pompous man. I bet he was terrible at it. That's true.
Sandra hired an independent private investigator who believes that someone was hired to kill Ed. Ward Boosie disagrees. He believes, based on the letter he received, that Ed planned on killing himself. He believes that he completed suicide so that he would not have to go to jail. An arson investigator, however, does not believe that he would have been able to set the car and himself on fire. And then investigator Bob Gale reasons to believe that the man in the car was not Ed. This is Liz's favorite. Yes, exactly. But someone else that Ed had faked his death to disappear. So I just don't understand. Like, who is this person then? Where did they...
Where did he get this body? I don't know. There was a body in that field like five feet away. Maybe there were two. Okay, that's a good point. Maybe he just picked up a random dead body. He was like, he was going to kill himself. He saw there was dead bodies in this field and he went, oh, that's convenient. And then he just put one of those in his jag and lit it on fire and shot it in the head. I mean, you know what? Sometimes life gives you limits, you know? That is my theory. If there's just like random dead bodies in fields in this town, the guy found a dead body faked his own death. I mean, it is a much more exciting.
theory uh so bob gale believes that he fled to an unknown location possibly the caribbean to live on the funds that he had embezzled from his investigators so far no one has answers as to what happened that night i i buy that he went off to a tropical island with all his stolen money because he's a jerk Yeah, then the update is that this is unsolved. Since the segment aired, nearly all of the witnesses in this case have passed away. Ed Baker's first wife of 20 years was killed in a car wreck. That's terrible. Ward Boosie passed away in 2000 at the age of 51. So, I mean, this is unsolved. Maybe he went on to live the rest of his life on a beach somewhere. That's what I think. I kind of don't think so, but I do like the idea. Sort of not, though, because who is that dead body? I mean, who is that dead person? He doesn't deserve it. That's just what I think happened. True.
You're like, yeah, okay, Liz. I drew two mustaches for this segment. One is his attorney, Ed, who has kind of a half circle of a mustache that I call the hay bale. Self-explanatory. But what I think is our MVM is one of the investigators who has a long, very light mustache. You described it as having almost two pom-poms at the end. This is very strange. It's unlike any mustache we've seen. I called it the Whisker Whisperer, which is kind of hard to say. I kind of love it, though. That's a good name for a mustache. Because the hairs are like so fine. They're like baby fine and so light, but there's so many of them.
And they just, they clearly like move when he talks. I don't know. It's a whisker whisperer situation. Look, I understand that you can't really control the way your mustache grows, but you can control how you groom it. And I don't know what this guy was doing, but those pom-poms don't need to be there. Like you can like go to a barber. I don't know. Clearly he liked it. Clearly he wanted that. That didn't just happen. No, I don't think so. He was cultivating that look. I guess he was like, I will be the whisker whisperer.
Okay. What was really annoying about that segment was that everybody was acting like he was so smart because he made a lot of money. And it's like, those things aren't correlated. Shut up. Then we got a very unnecessary update about Sue Scribner, who's looking for her missing siblings. It's a fine lost love, but we already fucking covered it. I don't know why it's in here again. Boo to that. So then you think the episode's over and they throw in one extremely short wanted segment. It's a blink and you miss it situation. And it's to let you know that someone has been added to the FBI's top 10 most wanted list. For the youngins out there, you may not remember that before 9-11, there was a World Trade Center bombing in 1993. It was on February 2nd.
So this is a wanted suspect from this bombing, which killed six and injured more than a thousand. The FBI was looking for a man named Ramsey Ahmed Yosef, who was believed to have fled the country. He was considered to be a... participant based on the fact that he was roommates with one of the other terrorists who was captured from the bombing. So they were on the lookout for him. The update is that he was arrested on February 7th, 1995 in Pakistan. He was also linked to the bombing of the Philippine Airlines Flight 434. So he was convicted of murder and attempted murder and he was sentenced to life in prison. I think his life in prison sentence though was actually for the airlines bombing. And then he received like hundreds more years on top of that for the World Trade Center bombing. Honestly, I did not look into this at all because it's just not an interesting case to me. I'm sure if that's something you're interested in, there's a lot more information out there.
i mean i hope he's guilty but other than that i don't it's just not interesting to me not really and it was there was hardly any it's so fast it's like a blink and you missed it yeah it was really just to put his his photograph on tv so you could be like oh yeah i've seen that guy but no one had because he was already in pakistan so um it's it's pretty self-explanatory and not very interesting okay should we rate the episode i think we have to by law i think we do uh uh mysteriousness it's actually pretty mysterious i think both of the unexplained deaths we don't have a full grasp of what happened why did Mario end up dead in that jail cell? Was there some sort of altercation with the police officers? Was he resisting arrest? You know, did something else happen? What was up with Paula? Yeah, what the fuck, Paula? Why are you such a bee? So there is a mysterious element to that one. I also think there's a mysterious element to your unexplained death. Okay, maybe he didn't take his own death, but not all the I's are dotted and the T's are crossed in that one either. It does leave an element of mystery. So I'll give it a thumbs up for that, actually.
Yeah, I think it was quite mysterious, actually. Reenactments? Solid. I don't know if the reenactments in general are getting better as the show goes on, but I actually thought, particularly in the first segment, that they were notably good. Yeah, I quite like them. I thought they were moving and well done. Is the Matthew McConaughey episode coming up? Yes, and I already promised Rochelle that she could be on that episode. Yes, I thought it was in season five. I'm definitely looking forward to it. I don't remember which episode it is, but Rochelle told me he's definitely shirtless, and I promised that she could come on and discuss that mystery with us. So that is something to look forward to in these bleak days. I mean, we have so little to look forward to. You've got to hang on to every scrap. Yeah, I agree. Fashion? The only thing that was really notable is the rich people.
in the 80s you get some like very sequins like all sequined dresses um yeah they're party outfits yeah but in overall it's pretty unremarkable very forgettable like this episode i don't think there's i don't know it's not worth talking about robert stack was like pretty standard stack in this episode except that at one point he was like in front of a power plant or like what was that some part of the electrical grid maybe i don't know they're having him stand by this like chain like fence you can see some I don't even know the words for those things in the background. And you know, he was like really here. And they're like, look, it's five minutes from your house. We've never filmed him before. Just do it. We don't pay you to think stack. We pay you to wax poetic about the sunsets of Mexico. Okay. Just stay the lines. Just wear the trench coat and show up. Yeah. No one asked you. All right. Thanks. We'll have you back on your yacht in no time.
Overall, what rating do you give this one? I mean, despite how I just talked about the reenactments and stuff, it still is pretty forgettable. It's all true crime. It's just a little too run of the mill. I wish we hadn't talked about it twice. I'm going to say two and a half. I completely agree. I feel like I was barely able to remember it. And I watched this episode twice and now I've talked about it twice. And I'll probably immediately forget. So I'm going to, yeah, I think a two and a half is a fair rating. Look, we just need that brain space for other things. This is not that important. That's true. I mean, it is true that I feel like my brain can barely.
hold any information at the moment, but this seems especially forgettable to me. I agree. It's fine. It's not like, ooh, skip it, but also who cares? Yeah, exactly. All right, we're at our recommendations section, and I hope you have something good to recommend because I feel like I have nothing.
That's really fun. You can just recommend Animal Crossing and have people come to your island. Oh, that's true. Yeah. Shout out to listener Gary who let me come to their island and gave me a bunch of rare fruits. That's so cute. I love it so much. Gary also sent me a little cactus set, which was really sweet and I have on my coffee table in my house. I love it. What are you recommending? Okay. I'm recommending for people who are stuck at home and need something else to listen to. Maybe you've already burned through all your podcasts. There's a really great free resource online called...
old time radio that is literally just an archive of old radio shows from you know 20s up probably into the 70s but mostly around the 30s 40s um and you can listen to all sorts of you know radio dramas radio comedies there's variety shows that have like singing and interviews with famous people from the time there's westerns there's sci-fi there's all kinds of stuff on there um it's all free uh i'm not sure if you can download from the site but you can definitely stream from the site um i originally found it because As you may be aware, I'm a 500-year-old vampire. And in my childhood, there really was a time where on Friday nights, I would sit down to listen to the radio, play the old show, The Shadow. And unfortunately, The Shadow is no longer on there because someone actually is enforcing that copyright. Well, a bunch of other stuff is. And if you're looking for a more like...
specific recommendation, I would say The Adventures of Philip Marlowe are nice little, maybe half an hour detective stories with a character from those famous books. And they're really well produced and you get sound effects and dramatic music and all that stuff. It's really cool. Very film noir, very has that vibe. But there's Agatha Christie stuff. If you like mysteries, there's a lot of stuff. There's Dragnet. There's a Sherlock Holmes thing. So if you're running out of things to listen to, I think that's a really great free resource. That's a great recommendation. And yeah, I feel like by the end of this, we may all be running out of things to listen to. I mean, my podcast list is a mile long, but...
It's something a little different, too. I know that there are podcasts that do, like, scripted dramas kind of in that tradition. But if you wanted to sort of hear the roots of that, I think that's kind of cool, too. They're the grandfathers of podcasting, I suppose. Love it.
Is there anything you wanted to say about making masks? Sure. Yeah, I spent some time on Saturday sewing masks, and there is a lot of patterns out there. If you can sew but maybe aren't a strong sewer, that describes me, there's plenty of YouTube tutorials that walk you through it. There's ones that have elastic, ones that don't, because I know elastic is kind of hard to come by. You know, bust out your sewing machine and sew a couple now that the CDC is recommending that everyone wears them in public. I will say if you don't sew or don't want to sew, the CDC's website has two additional.
like patterns for no-seal masks. One is using a t-shirt you cut up. And the other one is there's like a bandana technique where you fold it and use hair ties. I will say when I had to go out and get elastic this weekend to sew the masks that I made. And so I tried the bandana trick. It's a little hard to breathe through. I think the CDC is recommending just two layers of fabric. And when you fold a bandana, it ends up being, I don't know, four layers or more. And it's kind of hard to breathe. If you're going to do that, I'd recommend like maybe cutting it. So it's only two layers or maybe three, or you can put like a filter material, like a.
paper towel or a coffee filter and that is supposed to make them more effective so even if you don't sew or don't want to sew or you know you don't have access to the materials check out like just the cdc's website because they have a little tutorial um if you can sew and you want to make some extras to donate or some for your your friends and family there's so many good tutorials out there the one that i saw that i really liked that didn't have elastic was by this woman named jenny doan d-o-a-n of missouri star quilt company and she has a really good tutorial where you make like long ties um and is pleated um So if you want a sewing pattern, I think maybe check that out. Otherwise, just look it up on YouTube. I don't know which ones you were making masks. Which pattern did you find that you really liked? Yeah. So if people are interested in donating masks and not just making them for like your friends and family, be sure to look in your area to see what style they're requesting for donation because it's not the same everywhere. So let's see what website I'm actually looking at. So I'm looking at sewgoodgoods.org.
And they have a pattern that's approved for all providers in Minnesota, which is a pleated two layer mask. It doesn't have a pocket for a filter and you can do it either with ties or elastic. So if you're interested in doing it for donation, just make sure that, you know, that where your donations are going, it's the right type of mask. Having done this, I did it once and realized I put in the ties like incorrectly. I was kind of like making it more complicated than it needs to be, which is the story of my life. So from doing it again, my.
tips would be that if you're going to make a bunch of them I would definitely recommend making a template of the rectangle of fabric like just cut out a piece of cardboard that's six by nine so that you don't have to keep measuring the fabric each time right like you can just place so um so that you can just put the cardboard on top and either trace it or just cut it out and it'll I don't make that go a lot faster um and also the hardest part for me has been the pleating so just go slow sewing over the pleats like iron those down for sure like don't just pin them be sure to iron them um I think I've been ironing them before I pin them. And then, yeah, just go slow over that part because that is the most frustrating part. But the thing is, these don't have to be like beautiful. They just have to be functional. And I feel like so if you're not a great sewer, like I'm not really great at sewing, it can be really frustrating. But the thing is, we have plenty of time. So like I made one last night and I realized that I put in the ties backwards and it's kind of like, oh, well, now I know how to do it. I can make another one. I just don't.
i don't know give yourself some slack because it is it's probably something you've never done before so probably your first one isn't gonna work but that's okay i agree and if you're making them to give to someone or to donate i feel like i always have this feeling of like they're not gonna be good enough or whatever but that's just not true they just need to be functional they don't need to you know all your stitching doesn't need to be like precise and beautiful and if it's a little you know if you if you're weaving a little bit it's not a big deal it just needs to you know cover the face and be secure and tight and like if you follow the pattern you're gonna get that and um Yeah, the pleats are definitely the hardest part. But like Liz said, just take it slow if you're sewing these. And I mean, I thought it was actually kind of, once I got the hang of it, kind of a fun project. It was sort of cold on Saturday. And so I just sewed a few of these. And yeah, I mean, what else do you do? I've never felt better about my slight hoarder tendencies because I have all this sewing stuff I've picked up over the years at like estate sales and thrift stores. And now it's like, oh, I knew I would need this ribbon off a box of chocolates I ate eight years ago. And here it is. And now it's ties for a mask.
True. If you are a crafter, if you do any craft, I feel like you have a huge pile of stuff you've accumulated. It's funny because that video I was mentioning with the ties, this woman pulls this huge basket out of all of her scrap. Yeah, exactly. She's like, well, this is a perfect use for them. She's like, I knew I was saving these for something. And yeah, you can make masks and ties and stuff out of them. I have often berated myself for having too much stuff, whatever that means. And I feel like never again. Now I'm inside. I have plenty of things to do. I have plenty of books to read. I can fucking make masks with things I have on hand. I feel...
prepared and secure yeah definitely oh my goodness okay so one last thing before we go because we this came up in the last recording is i want to tell this story all right i don't want the listeners to miss out on this story so because of re-listening to the mothman episode i told the story about this time that i saw something and didn't want to tell anyone yes this is an amazing story so this was a few years ago i was living in new mexico my in-laws um had come out to visit and so the thing that you do when people come to visit if you live in southern new mexico is you go to white sands which is a national monument i've talked about it before on the show it's this white gypsum deposit so it's just probably acres and acres of just white sand. It's very surreal to me. It kind of feels like you're on the moon. It's a cool place. So anytime someone comes to visit, because there's not a ton to do, you're like, well, I guess we'll go to white sands. So we're driving out to white sands. I'm in the backseat. It's perhaps relevant that my in-laws have not always really liked me. So I'm just chilling back there. And I look out onto the horizon and I see the silhouette of a motherfucking Oryx.
I don't know if I'm saying that right. I think, okay, we looked this up last time and I'm almost positive it's Oryx. I thought you were talking about orcs, like from Lord of the Rings. And you were like, oh, you are crazy. No, I mean those.
those gazelles from deserts in Africa. Yeah, they have huge horns. Those like twisty horns. So I look out the window and I see the silhouette on like the top of a hill of an oryx, like something out of the motherfucking Lion King. And I see it and I just go, oh, I must have heat stroke. I'm seeing things. I better drink some water. And I don't tell anyone in the car. I don't tell Mac. I certainly don't tell my in-laws. We just cruise along.
And when we get to White Sands, we're, you know, like at the information center to pick up a map. And they also had a pamphlet about the fact that at some point, some crazy motherfucker introduced orcs to the region. So people would have more like fun things to hunt or whatever the shit. And of course they like bread and now there's thousands of them and they have no predators. So they just run around eating desert grass and whatever all day. So I really didn't see an orcs, but I thought I was having heat stroke because I did not believe my eyes because why would that be there?
This is the wildest story to me. And yeah, I googled it and they originally introduced like 90 and now there's like 5,000 of them living in New Mexico. And that's so wild to me. You can actually get a hunting license to go hunt them because it's kind of bad for the native landscape. Because they're not supposed to be there. It ruins the ecosystem. Yeah, it's really weird. And that never would have occurred to me. Like, oh Liz, of course you're really seeing an oryx because decades ago some crazy guy released them for hunting reasons. Like, no. It seemed much more likely to me that my eyes had stopped working.
But I feel for the people who saw Mothman and were like hesitant to come forward with their tale knowing that they might not be believed. I mean, yeah, I mean, that really makes you wonder if you were to see like we watched for Patreon this month. We watched a really terrible documentary about flying cryptids, which I thought was going to be all about people seeing pterodactyls. It was really big birds. But it makes you wonder, like if I was in fucking my backyard in Minnesota and I saw a giant condor, which have like an 11 foot wingspan, I might think that's a fucking I don't know if I think it's an interdimensional being, but I would definitely do a double take and I would wonder if I had lost my mind. Yeah, yeah, for sure. So, yeah, you can kind of after experiencing something like that relate to these people.
I want to bring up something that came up on the other episode that I think would be a shame if it got lost. And that is, are you going to buy a rat tail from Target? Okay, yeah. So you may be aware that I was going to surprise my husband with a rat tail for his birthday. By which I mean, he would open a card, it would say, surprise, you have a rat tail. And he would realize that I gave him a rat tail while sleeping. Well, one of our dear listeners pointed out that Target sells this like fake clip-on rat tail. Ostensibly, it is a Jedi costume accessory, but it's legit a rat tail.
I think Anakin had it more on, like, the side. Like, it wasn't at the nape of his neck. He had some, like, weird random braid. So you can buy this, like, clip-on random-ass braid. For $4? Which seems like way too much. But I might have to get it and clip it in his hair while he's sleeping so that I can make this dream come alive. I mean, don't we kind of need to buy a bunch of them and send them to our Super Duper Mystery Solvers as their next quarterly reward once we can go to the post office again? I mean, also, yes. I mean, the cards have to say, surprise, you have a rat tail. And then they open it up and their reward is a rat tail. The biggest disappointment.
On the history of Patreon? I mean, I feel like if it's not the only thing they get, it would be well worth it. Or we could get a few of them and we could bring them to the Mothman Festival and anyone who meets up with us can get their picture with a rat tail. Oh my god. You could be having a cliffhanger and a rat tail standing in front of the Mothman statue. A.K.A. living your best life. Well, now we have to. So everyone get your tickets to the Mothman Festival. Which requires no tickets. Yeah, we'll see if that's really happening. But I hope. I hope.
i hope we have plans we do we have something to look forward to don't take it away from us please um yeah that's that's we're done let's not do this anymore uh we have social media it's called have you heard of it twitter instagram there's a Facebook group we're barely on Instagram though but is that perhaps it's you all platforms nag Samantha on Instagram to give you some more posts um you can watch with me fight with people on Twitter uh we have a Patreon you get cool stuff like a coloring sheet of Rob Lowe realizing he will never see Bigfoot every month our coloring sheets get better and better this is Liz's finest work you definitely want to give us five dollars so you can get this coloring sheet no joke totally turned my mood around in this quarantine it gave me hope for the future so you need it in your life Maybe as much as I do. What else do we talk about? Oh, you should give us a five-star review. We love those. And we only accept five-star reviews. And if you wanted to contact us for some reason, it's perhaps it's youpodcast.gmail.com. If you just need to talk to other cool people, you can go to our Facebook group, talk about whatever. That's pretty much it, right? I think so. All right. Bye, everyone. Stay safe. Stay safe, BD Wong. See you later. Bye. Bye.