How to Stop People-Pleasing (with Jennifer Schwytzer)

If somebody looked up the definition of a people-pleaser, they would have found a picture of Jennifer Schwytzer. That's how she describes her old self, seventeen years deep into a career as a licensed social worker, giving and giving until, in her words, "you have nothing left for you." The wake-up call was simple and brutal: if you're not first, you're last. Jennifer is a certified life coach and founder of Kindfulness Coaching, where she helps professional women trade chronic stress and overwhelm for boundaries that actually stick. We talk about why women in particular get conditioned to hold back, the friends she lost the moment she started saying no, and how she figured out who in her life was a cheerleader for her growth versus who was just watching from the sidelines. We also get into what burnout actually feels like day to day (hint: it's quieter and sneakier than you'd think), how to tell it apart from depression, and why "priorities," not "goals," is the word she starts every client with. Watch this episode on YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XrXastXQbLk In this episode Why "if you're not first, you're last" became the wake-up call that ended seventeen years of people-pleasing The friends she lost the moment she started setting boundaries, and how she figured out who was actually in her corner What burnout actually feels like day to day, and how it's different from depression Why she starts every client with "priorities," not "goals" The idea behind Kindfulness Coaching: being kind to yourself first, mistakes and all The line she draws with family: open to feedback, not to criticism of her choices Timestamps (00:04) Welcome and meet Jennifer Schwytzer, founder of Kindfulness Coaching (01:26) "If somebody looked up the definition of a people-pleaser..." (02:42) Seventeen years to unlearn people-pleasing, and why it doesn't happen overnight (04:05) Why women, specifically, struggle to take up space (09:05) Learning to advocate for yourself, one small realization at a time (11:07) The pushback that comes with new boundaries, and the friends she lost (14:03) How to tell who your real friends are once you start setting limits (17:50) Her husband's simple "cool, let's do it" when she told him she wanted to be a life coach (21:49) Launching Kindfulness Coaching: being kind to yourself first (25:14) Starting with "priorities," not "goals," in her coaching practice (27:33) What burnout actually feels like, day to day (29:33) Burnout vs. depression: how to tell the difference (31:24) Where to find Jennifer Schwytzer and Kindfulness Coaching About Jennifer Schwytzer Jennifer Schwytzer is a certified life coach and founder of Kindfulness Coaching, helping professional women ditch chronic stress, overwhelm, and burnout to restore calm, productive order to their lives. She brings 17 years of experience as a licensed master social worker, has been featured on podcasts including Rochester Business Connections and Getting Real with Bossy, has won the award for excellence in outstanding social work from the University of Rochester Medical Center, and continues to provide mental health education through partnerships with the American Foundation for Suicide Prevention and Cornell University. Learn more at KindfulnessCoaching.com. Favorite quotes "If you're not first, you're last." —Jennifer Schwytzer "It's okay to make mistakes. It's okay to not have the best ideas or the best decisions all the time." —Jennifer Schwytzer "There was no passion left. There was no joy in the work that I was doing." —Jennifer Schwytzer, on what burnout felt like Resources mentioned KindfulnessCoaching.com Related episodes People-Pleasing and the Sticky Rope: a direct companion piece on why people-pleasing takes hold and how to work your way loose. Change Is Possible! Dai Manuel and the Five F's: another guest's take on "no is a complete sentence," from the other side of the boundaries conversation. Subscribe & connect If this episode gave you something to sit with, follow Phoenix and Flame so you never miss an episode: all apps in one place, or jump straight to Apple Podcasts, Spotify, Amazon Music, or YouTube. And if it moved you, leave a review; it's the easiest way to help another listener find the show. Learn more about Phoenix and Flame, connect with Dana, and listen to more episodes here. Curious where your own boundaries stand? Take my free Work Boundaries Quiz: danaskaggs.com/quiz