Sustainability as a Long Game: Making Uncertainty a Metric (#36)

In this episode of the FindingSustainia podcast, we sit down with Joss Tantram, sustainability professional, writer, former WWF employee, and WBCSD contributor, to talk about the real terrain of change: uncertainty, momentum that comes and goes, and how to stay effective without burning out.We unpack Joss’s work on corporate disclosure and “uncertainty” in sustainability, why facts matter but never tell the whole story, and how young professionals can find their sphere of influence without getting overwhelmed. We also explore the power of networks, the loneliness many sustainability practitioners experience inside organisations, and why a clear vision can be motivating even if it’s never fully “achieved.”Joss closes with his vision of a future that works for 9–10 billion people—not by magic, but through systems that respect planetary limits and expand real human opportunity.00:03 Welcome and introduction to Joss Tantram02:09 How this conversation started: a report, a critique, and an unexpected reply04:36 The WBCSD project: why “uncertainty” became the core topic08:45 “Mr Uncertainty”: why sustainability work often means swimming against the tide11:35 Sustainability’s ebbs and flows—and managing expectations so you don’t burn out13:51 The fine line between realism and cynicism: “willful optimism”16:13 Individualism vs collectivism: where change actually happens19:42 A practical tool: spheres of concern, influence, and control25:04 Talking about influence with children—and what it reveals about adults29:50 Early-career tension: big ambition, small levers, and the value of small steps33:21 Knowledge, skills, networks, resources, reputation: what really matters, and when38:20 Why networks keep sustainability practitioners sane (and effective)42:48 The profession is still “forming”: learning from what works and what fails46:03 Why collaboration is hard: incentives, money, insecurity, and timing50:52 “Pre-competitive” collaboration: where companies can work together honestly54:50 Why sustainability isn’t “just uncertainty”: facts, systems, and the human factor59:09 Sustainia 2050: Joss’s vision for 9–10 billion people within planetary limits1:03:21 Where to find Joss’s work and the “9 Billion” idea1:04:11 Closing: staying “willfully optimistic” and keeping humour in the workUncertainty in sustainability reporting and decision-makingStaying motivated when momentum disappearsAvoiding burnout without becoming cynicalNetworks as a survival and impact tool for practitionersVision as direction, not perfectionSystems change, incentives, and “pre-competitive” collaborationTerrafinity: www.terrafinity.comSearch: Joss Tantram + “9 Billion” for essays and longer piecesFind more about us, upcoming formats, and new impulses at www.findingsustainia.com – or connect with us directly on LinkedIn (FindingSustainia) and Instagram (@findingsustainia).If you enjoyed this episode, please give us a good rating so more people can discover the podcast – and help amplify positive change in our society.What you’ll hear in this episodeKey themesLinks mentioned