Boom! Shake the room, Fire Nation. JLD here, and welcome to Entrepreneurs on Fire, brought to you by the HubSpot Podcast Network, with great shows like Being a Boss. Today, we'll be focusing on the future of work.
To drop these value bombs, I brought Hooman, Radfar, into EO Fire Studios. Hooman is a serial entrepreneur, investor, and co-founder and CEO of Collective. He previously co-founded Addis, the largest platform on the web to help drive traffic and engagement for marketers. He was also a founding partner at Expa, a platform started by Uber co-founder Garrett Camp to support entrepreneurs by building and investing in their companies.
Hooman co-founded Collective to create a better future workplace by supporting the largest class of entrepreneurs in the world, businesses of one. And today, Fire Nation, we'll talk about the future of work trends, we'll talk about the passion economy, and so much more when we get back from thanking our sponsors. Now there's a better way to pay for healthcare, and it's called CrowdHealth. Sign up today to get your first month free.
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Hooman, say what's up to, Fire Nation, and share something that you believe about becoming successful that most people disagree with. Hello, hello, hello, Fire Nation. Thank you for having me, John. What is something that I believe?
So from my end, I think that there is a new impetus around this work-life balance concept, which I totally agree with. But I believe strongly that work-life balance is a dynamic principle versus static. So in the case of me, I'm starting a company. Your balance point at the beginning of a company, say when you're pre-seed, is different than C and A and B.
And I think having the understanding that at the very beginning, you may have to sacrifice more, work more to achieve, but that balance is different than later. A common mistake I see with folks all the time who are getting started for the first time is they think that they should have a certain schedule and it's actually going to maintain throughout the history of the startup. And I have not found that to be true. Fire Nation, this is Hooman's experience when it comes to becoming successful in this world.
So I want you to take it, understand it, and then say, how can I apply this potentially to my life? And as I mentioned during the introduction, we're talking about the future of work. And I brought Hooman on to rock the mic here because you've got quite a jet-setting life, my friend. I mean, you moved from Iran to the UK to the US of A.
So talk to us about this journey. I just got to know how this transpired. I think it's a, I would say classic American tale, right? Yeah, my parents were born overseas.
My father was always enamored with the United States and him and my mom, luckily, were planning to come over here right as there was a revolution in Iran. And it's amazing to hear the stories about a revolution as it's happening. I guess maybe that could be a long conversation another time, but luckily left. I was born in London along the way.
You can hear from my accent. Unfortunately, I didn't get the British accent, which I would love. I think it would up my game quite a bit. I ended up being raised in Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania, and love Pennsylvania and went to school there for undergrad and grad.
And it was really, you know, I like to think that my background, both from being Persian, having parents who are immigrants, both my parents own their own businesses, but also, you know, they really didn't understand the landscape here. When I went to college, I didn't know what the opportunity set was relative to some of my friends, right? Like I thought a banker was someone who was a bank teller. I didn't realize that there was this thing called investment bankers where people are making millions and millions of dollars.
So it's been, you know, interesting to try to approach the world from so many different lenses, you know, as a Persian, as an immigrant, as an entrepreneur, as a guy from Pennsylvania on the West Coast. So I love to bring those different perspectives to everything that I build and create. So Fire Nation, what I really want you to kind of understand as humans going through this process here is you've got to make the most of your situation. I mean, this poor guy was born in London.
He doesn't have a British accent, but somehow he was still able to make a success of himself. And that's kind of what I wanted to move into next because I'm personally very curious about the following. You were an early investor in companies like Uber and Convoy. Tell us the story of how you managed to even be in a position to do those things and to make those investments.
Like walk us through that whole story. So I think to understand how you get in a position to invest in companies, a lot of it, you know, people say is like luck in circumstance. But I think so much of your life is the culmination of a lot of choices prior. And for me, what set me up to have the opportunity to work with founders and companies like those two or Sweetgreen was really the work I did previously, right?
So I love, you know, building, creating. I was coding since I was young. I was drawing, you know, anything I could do to create by any medium. I loved it and fell in love with startups during college in the .com and started my first company out of graduate school.
That company at this was a marketing automation company. We ultimately sold it to Oracle. And I worked with, you know, we have 15 million customers that were using our tools. And through building that platform, I was in the phase of the web, I think, popularly defined as web 2.0.
I got to meet all these different founders because our tools were plugins that went to websites. So one of our popular tools was a sharing plugin, right? Share Facebook, Twitter, MySpace. There were 300 networks and then we were doing analytics.
And, you know, it was one of many tools. But two, we had to partner with these different networks. And I remember, you know, Facebook, before Facebook came out, they were reaching out to us, asking us to distribute their tools, stumble upon Twitter. Like we had direct relationship with them.
And at the time, these weren't the juggernauts that you know now, right? Like I was directly getting emails from Facebook begging me to promote their tool. Like I would say, you know, probably the first million installs that they had at Facebook were likely driven by us. And so I think, you know, people often talk about what do I need to do to invest in A, B, and C.
A lot of that is what did you do beforehand? What experience did you build? What value did you create? And what network did you activate such that you're valuable and that your network provides that opportunity or you can seek that opportunity to network so you can deliver that value?
But, you know, it's, yes, it's lucky that I can tell you the lucky part of it, like how I actually got into that particular circumstance. Well, yeah, let's talk about one of those stories. Just one of them. It could be Uber.
It could be Sweet Greens. It could be, what's one of your favorite like stories of like, wow, looking back, like that was really cool how that developed. So Convoy is one that's like pretty near and dear to my heart for a number of reasons. So I had joined, my partner Garrett at Expo and Expo builds and creates startups where we wanted to be founders helping founders.
And so obviously Garrett's the founder of Uber. And so when I had joined him, you know, and we were working on Expo, one of the concepts that I was enamored by was this idea of how you could take that Uber model, how do you create like an application and have a connected, managed marketplace, whether it be transportation in the case of Uber for consumers, but you could apply to the markets. And so I started looking at logistics and I thought, wow, logistics is very pen and paper. I mean, I called folks.
It was really, really challenging, right? It was an old solution. You're talking about $800 billion market, right? And so I thought, wow, we could take the concepts from Uber and build something similar and use the Expo platform, Garrett's experience, my experience to launch it.
So that's, that was where we started. I ultimately, when we were thinking about incubating, I said to myself, wow, I think that, you know, somebody else, I was going to go take a lead and go and build it. But while I was enamored with the concept and while I thought it would work, I started to realize there has to be someone with a different set of expertise and passions to run point on this project. So that's kind of where I was like, you know, starting to think about that.
Now, fast forward, I go in and I was in this place called Battery in San Francisco and I run into an old friend. I hadn't seen him in a long time, this guy, Ali Portofi. And Ali and I started talking, said we should hang out. You know, it was great because, you know, kind of a great friendship and all of these things.
But we started talking about this. He was telling me about asking me about Expo, what I was thinking was big. I talked about trucking. He was interested in trucking.
And we both kind of had that same thesis. And I said, man, if you find anyone there, let me know. Lo and behold, he met his brother, Hadi. I met Dan in Seattle.
And Dan was, you know, ex-Amazon thinking about this concept. And I called me and said, hey, if you guys are interested, I think, you know, given your interest, given what you've seen with Uber, you know, I think it could be a really interesting combination. And so it all, you know, came together pretty nicely in a package. But again, you had to have like that really weird chain of events where I was already interested.
I run into this guy at a, you know, the battery happened to convey my interest and then he happens to run another guy. And so that's one of the really amazing things that happens. I think not just in work, but in life, that synchronicity where you have to keep your mind open and almost invite the universe in. And magic happens.
That for me was something that just, you know, we can't make that one happen. We couldn't force it. And Fire Nation, that's why you are the average of the five people you spend the most time with, because it's all about surrounding yourself with the right people, putting yourself in the right situations. I mean, a lot of people talk about luck this and luck that.
Well, guess what? Luck is where effort meets opportunity. And Hunan was putting in that work. He was making the efforts and the opportunities.
They arose and he took advantage of them. And then here we are chatting here today with some of his past investments being Uber, Convoy, Sweet Greens. I mean, hello. And we are going to really be focusing on the future of work, the passion economy, and so much more when we get back from thinking our sponsors.
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Terms and conditions may apply. Kun, we're back, and I want to now talk about the future of work and the trends that are happening in that area. First off, define work trends, and then break down what the future holds in your eyes. I think all of us are acutely aware about the accelerating pace of the change in future work, in particular because of the reality of the world.
We went through a pandemic, and all of us, whether we liked it or not, went to, I think, one of the grandest experiments in work, which is, what if everyone has to go remote at the same time? I think if you don't acknowledge that reality, you're not really understanding the future of work. I think, first and foremost, now, more than ever, remote is an irreversible and accelerating trend. I think it was something that was important before, and I think it's something that, if you don't factor into everything you're doing, it's just you're not going to come up with the right strategy.
Now, going back, hopefully, we're on the other side of the pandemic. Of course, it's not completely over. Even if it was, what we're seeing is employees, companies have to wrestle with hybrid or remote. I think that, to me, is one of the big, big changes.
Now, second, what that's done is, if you're going remote, you have to start thinking about your team. In our case, we have a very international and diverse team within the United States. We have people in North Carolina. We have people in Kentucky.
We have people in Florida, California. We have people in India, Pakistan. Now, we're hiring overseas. Would we have done that had the pandemic not occurred?
I don't know. I don't think so, but it's working, and we're realizing the benefit of it. So, you know, something's opened up. Now, what that's changed for a lot of employers, though, is how do you have to onboard and work with people who are in different states and different countries?
So, there are all these opportunities, and it's created, from a company perspective, both the economic uncertainty and the fact that you are likely going to hire remote has created this huge demand in what we call the business of one world at Collective. So, freelancers, gig workers, I mean, the demand is out of control. At Collective, we're seeing our membership explode, and also, we're seeing their revenues go up. Because, you know, if you're a company, say you're a small business, and you're looking at it and saying, hey, I don't know what's going to happen in the world, and I know I need to take advantage of talent in different states.
All things being equal, you're starting to really, really open up to contractors. Well, those contractors might have contracts at a couple of companies, they may have your company, but ultimately, that's a business of one. And so, I think that's another trend that's been accelerated by our reality. So, those are two things that I would say are critical to assess in the future of work that will shape not just, you know, the way we work, but also the tools that we select to work with.
And, finally, when you can stay ahead of the curve, when you can stay cutting edge in your knowledge, then that just puts you one step ahead of your competition. And I want to talk about the passion economy, Hunan, because this is a word that I find really interesting, passion. And then, when you're coupling it with economy, my interest is Pete. So, why is the passion economy the new American dream?
So, I think what's happened is pretty interesting. Look, America is built on entrepreneurship. It is the fundamental backbone of this country. It's immigrants coming here with nothing, building businesses, creating wealth.
And I think that's what makes this country great. Now, at the core, at the base of this, there is a business of one. And that's something that I think is in the zeitgeist and has been, you know, you look at Uber, for example, people talk about the gig economy. It's been popularized as this, you know, new trend, but it's America.
If you look at businesses of one, as an example, 36% of the workforce are entrepreneurs and are predicted to go up to 50% in the next 10 years. And I think the drivers for this are pretty apparent, right? People want the freedom and independence of running their own business. And what's really unlocking this and becoming a great catalyst is one, on the revenue side, you have the emergence of marketplaces.
So, you look at Upwork, Uber, you have Dribbble. There's so many vertical marketplaces that are enabling talented people who want to run their businesses to connect with opportunities for revenue. So, that's the first, I think, thing you need. Second, I think you're seeing this rise in tools to enable people to more easily run their businesses and generate revenue.
And that goes from creators, right? Like, you look at vertical-oriented tools like Substack that are enabling writers. You look at tools like Figment, even, right, that are making design more collaborative, that are making it easier. And then you go all the way down to, hey, I have to actually run my business.
And by the way, I'm not an expert on my business. Tools in platforms like Collective that say, hey, you focus on your passion, they'll get revenue through Upwork or what have you. These influencer platforms will handle formation, the tax, the accounting. They're necessary, but you need to handle the real stuff, which is the revenue.
And I think that confluence of having the revenue opportunities to move online, having the tools to run the business to move online are just basically taking those folks that were already excited and saying, all right, what do I really love to do? The ball's in my court at this point. I don't need to wait. I actually have it.
If you think even 10 years ago, 20 years ago, it was scarier. How are you going to generate revenue? How are you going to string together all the tools to the business? It was very different.
And so, I think what you're just seeing is the tools are catching up with people's dreams. But fundamentally, this country has been an entrepreneurial country. And I think all we're doing is enabling that spirit to be lifted. Fire Nation, that is the backbone of the United States of America.
I mean, literally from day one. And so that's what I love when we talk about things like this passion economy, because this is an opportunity that we all have to follow our passions while knowing that we need to be providing real value, real value. I actually say specifically becoming the number one solution to somebody's real problem. That's where you need to make sure you're also including in with the passion because people are going to beat a path to the door of the number one solution to their problem.
And they're going to ignore the second best solution all the way down to infinity. So why would you not want to be the number one solution to a real problem in this world? And if you can infuse your passion within that, you're going to win out because the person that wakes up every day wanting to do that thing, excited to continue going forward in that direction, they're going to win out over time. So Human, give us the one key takeaway that you really want to make sure Fire Nation walks away with from our entire conversation today.
Share with us some details about how we can connect with you, with what you have going on, any call to action you may have, and then we'll say goodbye. I'll start with the takeaway and on with connecting with me. So I think my takeaway to anyone who's out there today who has that spirit, who wants to be an entrepreneur, whether it's someone who wants to build something at scale in a venture-backed business or, hey, I want to create on my business alone, like my parents immigrating from other countries, starting to hang up their own shingle for a doctor's office. The tools are there.
It's never been easier to build a company from the perspective of having the right tools in place. You can do it. And if you're concerned about how to start, my advice is simple. Put a folder on your computer, call it StartupX, set a doc up, and just start writing.
Write down all your ideas. Close it. You start it. Hit that every day.
There's an amazing book called War of Arts that talks about creativity in the face of resistance. And I think half the battle for entrepreneurs is putting one foot in front of the other, continuing to learn with humility and fight. So I think you can do it, and I hope that you do. And that's my takeaway for you.
In terms of reaching out, I'm at HumanRatfar on most social media, so Instagram, Twitter, connect with me on LinkedIn. I'd love to talk to you. And in particular, if you're a business of one and you're freelancing, you're a great designer, marketer, creative, please reach out to me. I'm happy to help.
And if you are considering scaling your business strongly, I would encourage you to look at a selection. If you're making over $60,000, $70,000 a year, you can save tens of thousands on taxes. If you want to learn more, we have resources at collective.com, or you can reach out to me. But we're here to help you.
We want this economy to move forward. I encourage you to follow your dreams. Fire Nation, you're the average of the five people you spend the most time with. And you've been hanging out with HR and JLD today, so keep up that heat.
And head over to eofire.com, type Human in the search bar. That's H-O-O-M-A-N. And the show notes page will pop up with everything we talked about here today. And Human, I just want to say thank you, brother, for sharing your truth, your knowledge, your value with Fire Nation today.
For that, we salute you, and we'll catch you on the flip side. Thank you, brother. I appreciate it. Hey, Fire Nation, today's value-bound content was brought to you by Human, and Fire Nation successful entrepreneurs accomplish big goals.
That's why I created the Freedom Journal to guide you in accomplishing your number one goal in 100 days. We're talking step-by-step, so visit thefreedomjournal.com. Use promo code PODCAST for a $15 discount, and thank you for listening to my podcast, and I'll catch you there, or I'll catch you on the flip side. Now there's a better way to pay for healthcare, and it's called CrowdHealth.
Sign up today to get your first month free. Just go to joincrowdhealth.com and enter code FIRE at sign up. That's joincrowdhealth.com. Promo code FIRE.
CrowdHealth is not health insurance. Terms and conditions may apply.