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I'm Ash. And this is morbid. MOBBED. MOBBED.
That's MOBBED. Hello, welcome to our show everybody. Welcome. And you know what?
We've been getting like this month for some weird reason in September 2020. Yeah. Can you just join us? Yeah.
We have had a ton of new people joining the show, like listeners. So many new listeners. So hello new listeners. Welcome.
Welcome to the madness. Yeah. And if you started from the beginning and you got here, kudos to you, because you stuck through us recording underwater. Blah, blah, blah, blah.
And also us not realizing how long our intro should be. Yeah. When there were like 10 minutes and I was just talking about what I did at work that day. Yeah.
Sorry. We got better, I think. So you know what? Welcome.
We're glad to have you. Hope we keep you. And yeah, so we're excited about that. I don't know what it is, but pretty cool.
I wonder if it's crime countdown. Like people started listening to crime countdown. Oh, maybe. And then they were like, oh, I didn't like it's so weird to think of people listening to crime countdown first.
I know it is weird just because like this has been around for so long. Yeah. But if you're here from crime countdown, that's awesome. Welcome.
And thank you for listening to both. Yeah. And you know what? If you haven't listened to crime countdown yet, go listen to it.
It's awesome. Oh, I love doing that. It's so much fun to record. We love talking about fun.
So yeah, so that's fun. We don't really have a whole lot of like craziness to go over here. I can tell a really funny story that happened last night. That is kind of relevant.
I want to know. I actually tweeted about it. We suddenly, John was upstairs. I was downstairs.
And suddenly I heard this huge thud. Oh, I saw your tweet. And it like shook the house. Like shook the side of the house.
And I was like, dude, one of the kids just followed a bed. That's what I assumed. So I would have shook the house. Well, yeah, because the house is so old, you literally drop a pen on the floor.
The whole house shakes. It's insane. And really, you know, a deadweight child falling out of the floor is definitely going to shake the living room. So I ran up there.
And I was like, did you just hear that noise? And John was like, yeah, I thought it came from downstairs. And I was like, no. So I ran into the kids' rooms.
They're all sound asleep. Everyone's fine. Looked around. There's nothing on the floor.
Nothing is falling. I look in every room. Nothing has fallen. Remember when that happened to us that one time?
And then finally we found it. But there was nothing. So I was like, that's weird. So I went back in our room.
And I'm like, yeah, weird. I'm telling John, like I didn't find anything. As we're talking, something above our heads in the attic crashes onto the floor. Shut up.
And both of us looked up. And John was like, that was in the fucking attic. And I was like, oh shit. So I was like, OK, what do we do?
Was your heart like pumping and thumping? Well, because I'm like, oh my god. Because the other thing is the attic door is on the side of the house where the kids' rooms are. So I was like, oh, I'm going to have to kill someone today.
That was my thought. I was like, oh, we're going to kill someone together. I love that your first thought was like, I'm not going to. Because my first thought would be, oh, I'm going to die today.
That sucks. I'm really bummed out about it. Yours was, oh, I have to complete the other today. That was literally the differences in our psyche.
Because I went 100% and would be like, I should have gotten the Chick-fil-A today or something. You know what I mean? And I know it's problematic. Don't at me.
But my first thing was like, well, motherfucker isn't coming down those stairs to my kids' rooms. It's just not happening. But then how would they have gotten up there in the first place? They really couldn't.
So I was like, oh, shit. But my head was like, someone's in there. Because you know, stranger things have happened. So John immediately grabs one of my old softball bats.
Incredible. And he wants to go out there by himself. Nace, sir. And I was like, no, no.
I'm not letting you get murdered by some weird adiaballer. I had full confidence he could do it. But my thing was, you're not going to let him get hurt. I don't want him to get hurt.
What if I try to take a swipey swipe at my husband? I'm going to come at them. You're just going to get the job done. Fuck that.
Women. Women. And I just had to be up there. I couldn't just stand down there passively and hope that he was fine.
It just isn't my way of doing things. That's good. So I was like, I got to go up there. I got to be back up for him.
So the only thing near me at the time was my horror memorabilia. Incredible. Which was a signed Friday the 13th machete. Machete.
So I grabbed it. And I grabbed a machete. Grabbed a machete. And just waltzed up to the stairs.
And I called to John. I'm like, I'm coming up. And he's like, why are you coming up? And you're like, well, I have a machete.
I got the machete. And he's like, what the actual hell? So we looked around. No one's in there.
There's no animals or anything. But like a day or two before, I had brought the girls upstairs with me to look for Halloween decorations. And of course, four-year-olds touch everything. And they move in all the stuff.
They're finding their old toys. So they just move and shit. And they had teetered their Barbie dream camper as well as the airplane. No, not the airplane.
It was the bassinet. Oh, the bassinet. Oh shit. I almost said it.
I literally went, but I stopped myself. So beeps bassinet. They were playing around with them. And I had put the bassinet on top of another box.
And the camper was teetering on something. Both of them were on the ground. And it makes sense that they made the big crashing noises. Yeah.
But of course, John was like, that's all well and fine. Like, how did they end up on the ground? Yeah, that's the thing. There's no cool draft right now.
No, there's really not. And there wasn't up there. But all I can think of is like physics. They were teetering.
Eventually, they were going to fall over. That's fun for you. And even if it's, honestly, if it's an old timey ghost up there, just knocking shit over, that's fine. Yeah.
I would much rather that than an actual person. Think of just like me as an old timey ghost. I'd be clumsy. Yeah.
I could never think of you as an old timey ghost. You would always be the Britney bitch kind of ghost. Thank you so much for that compliment. Oh, speaking of old timey things and how we didn't do long intros anymore, but just really quick.
I always say how I'm not going to buy an antiques. I know. I bought an antique. As soon as you said it, I was like, did you just said?
I know I literally just said it. But they're hard to not buy. We found this wicked cute little antique store. I forget what it's called, but I'm going to have to plug it next time.
It's in North Adelborough. And it's so cute. And they had, Annie was checking out. She got all these old matchbox cars.
Oh, I love this kind of like starter collection, which I think is awesome. Amazing. And then she's checking out. And there's all these vogue covers, but like as paintings.
Like big, big. Yeah, that's cool. And she goes, I'm literally across the store. She goes, ah, we got to get this.
We got that. And then I got like a little trinket box. That was a telephone. That's so cute.
It reminded me of Nanny. Oh, I love that. I hope it's not haunted. And I hope it doesn't bring a demon into my home.
I love that. I feel like it's too small too. Oh, yeah, that's true. But now there can be tiny demons.
Yeah. Tiny demons. You have a tiny demon in your mind. I would rather large demon versus a tiny demon.
Because tiny demon, I feel like, can be child. They can get into too many places. Yes, crevices. Cravices.
So I think now that we have regaled you all with our tales of craziness the last day or so. Ghosts and intakes. Our wild lives. We are so crazy.
Wild and crazy. I think we can get back into what we're here for. What do we here for? True crime.
What do we want? True crime. When do we want it? Like 10 minutes ago.
All the time. So today's episode, I'm going to cover another Scottish case. You're so into Scotland lately. I know.
I feel like I'm just like drawn to you, Scotland. Hello, we're back at Scotland. And this is the case of Peter Tobin. Peter Tobin.
He's a real dick, this one. I believe it. Now the reason I got into this one was because originally, I was going to cover Bible John this episode. I'm going to cover Bible John next episode, actually.
I was like a continuation. I don't even know who that is. You're going to know. I guess so.
The reason that I was going to, that this kind of like all led together was because some people, including the original investigators on this case, think that Bible John, which is an unsolved case, is Peter Tobin. So we shall see. But we're going to talk about just Peter Tobin in this episode. And then we will lead into, is he Bible John next episode?
What do you think? I don't know. OK. I'm not sold yet.
Maybe I need to read a little bit more about it. But I feel like I'm not sold yet. I'll have an answer on the next episode. OK.
Cool. So Peter Tobin, we don't know a ton about his childhood. I couldn't find anything. Is that weird?
Was he born a long time ago? He was born, not really. He was born August 27th, 1946. So really not that long time ago.
No. But I think he was just like a dick. So I think nobody really wants to claim him a lot. So they're just like, yeah, he was a kid one.
So I'm not going to be a kid. He was born in Johnston, or Johnstone, Remfershire. Remfershire. Remfershire.
I'm from Remfershire. Are you from Remfershire? He was born in there. He was the youngest of seven.
It's always the youngest of the problem. Thank you. I'm the youngest as well. Well, actually, my spot in Fing, my spot in Fing, is so confusing.
You're technically the oldest, technically. Yeah. Which is crazy. But I'm the youngest of this family.
Yeah. And I'm the youngest of. Figure out our family tracks, if we just, that's like one of those little finger traps that just get you stuck. Yeah.
So he was apparently a very difficult child. OK. So it was not a good, no, this was a very different kind of difficult child. OK.
He was violent. Oh, no. He was like really fucked up. At the age of seven, he was sent to reform school.
Seven years old. That's how bad he was. Holy shit. Yeah.
He then went to a Borstil, which we remember that term from Ian Brady and my rindly, Ash is shaking. I'm like, no, I do not remember that term. A Borstil is almost like a military-style school where you send young men that are usually more intelligent or able to function on a higher level. It's like a military reform school kind of thing.
Good thing my memory lasts two weeks. You're like, no, I don't like that. So he did attend to Borstil. And then he ended up in prison for forgery and burglary.
Wow. Great kid. So he was really killing it right off the gate, like starting at seven. He was letting the whole world know what he was all about, who I am and what I'm about.
He then married. He got married for the first time in 1969 to a woman named Margaret. They met at a dance hall, where he often picked up ladies at dance halls. Did he know how to do a good jig?
I'm sure. I guess he did, because he was picking up ladies. That's what's happening. And the thing that really connects him to Bible John is that Bible John also picked up women at dance halls, especially the Barrow Land Dance Hall, which was like a popular place.
I wish that dance halls were still a thing. Let's go to a dance hall. One of the good dance nights. That's so cute.
So he was 20. She was 17. She said that their marriage was horrific, great, it was horrible and abusive. He locked her in rooms for days at a time and wouldn't let her leave the house without him.
That reminds me of Kelly and Bates. He was real scary. This is even worse, just a fair warning, dead dog. No.
She said, quote, he got me a black Labrador puppy. No, those are my favorite. I hadn't had butte long when he cut off its head while I was at the shops and threw it out the window. I found boys in the yard using the head as a football.
Oh, I don't have that. Oh my god. So that's a thing. And what's wrong with those fucking kids?
I know, man. What the fuck? Real fucked up. I don't know what was happening in the water in that area.
What's up with all the fucked up children? Don't play with dead dog sets. Don't do it. Don't do it.
So he also, now as if this wasn't bad, their entire marriage being this awful abusive lesson in nightmare. He also raped and stabbed his wife and left her to die. But a neighbor saw blood and he ran over and rescued her. Oh my god.
This is a huge trigger warning for something he did to her. Rape trigger warning, rape trigger warning. He hadn't, they found out later that he had inserted the knife inside of her and made it so she couldn't have kids ever again. She could never have children because of it.
Oh my god. What a fucking monster. He's an absolute monster. What is wrong with someone?
Well, then in the 1970s, he went to prison for burglary and theft. And that's when she was able to leave him, like divorce him. She was terrified. Obviously.
He literally tried to kill her. Right. He thought he had killed her. In 1973, he married a second woman named Sylvia Jeffries.
Or Sylvia. She said he was horrifically abusive to her as well and their dog. So he had a thing. It's like, don't get a dog if you don't like them.
Stop getting dogs. You have a choice to get a dog. Right. Like that is an absolute choice.
So they divorced in 1976. She divorced him. The way she left him was she literally ran away with their older child. Like just packed up and a child together.
They had two children together. They had shortly before the divorce. They had another baby that died at two days old because of breathing issues. And she grabbed her older, I think it was a son, and just peaced out of there.
Thank God they were able to get out. Yeah. Well, then the third wife, Kathy Wilson, he's poor women. They also met at a dance hall in 1989.
She was only 16 at the time and he was 40. Ew. That's like Kellyanne Bates again. That's no good.
They had one child together, a son named Daniel. She said about him, quote, he was all sweetness until he had me where he wanted me. Once I was pregnant, he changed and used Daniel to control me. It was always threats to killer hurt Daniel if I left.
He would even pick him up and mimic throwing him on the floor. I felt like a prisoner. Jesus Christ. He's a literal monster.
That's the thing with these people because they're like, how do they get, like how do you get into a relationship with that? I know people think that. But these people are in straining. Like it could happen to anybody.
It is Prince Charming at first. People say like that could never happen to me. No, they can happen to anybody. As smart as you are.
Especially these kind of dudes, they know how to do it. They know how to do it. Like my ex-boyfriend, he was not physically abusive or anything. I definitely didn't go through that.
But in the beginning, he was definitely emotionally and mentally abusive. And he flipped a switch. When we first met, he was like Prince Charming. And that's how they get you.
They get you to think, oh, will they really care about me? And look, they're paying so much attention to me. They start to separate me. You start your family and your friends.
Exactly. And they do it slowly and methodically. And then all of a sudden you're sitting there. And you're like, fuck.
I don't have anyone to reach out. And you can't get out. So it's like, that sucks. And these poor women are married.
Right? And you can't really imagine that. One to have children in that situation. Oh.
Because then it's like you're not only protecting yourself. You're protecting your child. Oh, and the need to protect your child is so painful. Right.
How much of a need it is? So I can't even imagine what these poor women were going through. So that was in 1989 that they got married. Bring us to 1993.
He lured two 14-year-old girls. When I say lured, I mean lured them to him. And then at knife point, forced them to go into his apartment. Oh my god.
It was in Hampshire where his son was. Daniel was in the house. He drugged them by forcing them to take sedatives and literally forcing vodka down both their throats. He raped them both.
He stabbed one several times, turned the gas on, and left them to asphyxiate. You're kidding. Both of them survived. What?
And both of them described him. And we're like, let me tell you what he looked like. Amazing. So he tried to hide.
Because this is his MO. He does this shit. And he fights. And then he fights.
Like he gets the fuck up out of there. He had a ton of aliases, which is why they think he might be Bible John. Because he's just in so many different identities. So he tried to hide.
But he was found in May 1994. So the next year, he was arrested and sentenced to 14 years. But he only served 10. Only four.
This is the thing. I don't understand why you get so much less time for attempted murder, just because it didn't work. It's like because you should get the same. Your plan wasn't for it to work.
Right. Like it was a failure. And it wasn't a failure like you did on purpose. You wanted it to work.
It was an implied failure. You wanted this person to cease to exist. And you just failed at it because you're a fucking loser. And you can't do anything.
You should get. I don't think there should be an attempted murder charge. It really shouldn't. No.
Because if you're right, it doesn't make any sense. It truly doesn't. Like, oh, well, you tried. But since it didn't work, lucky you.
Lucky you it didn't work. And that person's way stronger than you thought they were. So you get less time. Great.
Fuck. That has nothing to do with you. Because it's almost like the person who survives gets punished for being a survivor. Yes.
100. Exactly. Why are we just realizing how fucked up this guy? I feel like I've said it before.
But I feel like this time we, like, we undid the whole thing. Yeah. That's like, like, let's like, like, like, let's like, like, like, let's write a letter to our justice. Let's just mantle the whole thing.
Yeah, let's just do it. We can do that. Let's actually just flee the country. So this is when Kathy was able to divorce him.
OK. So he started to divorce him. Oh, so this was before she ran away. OK.
Yeah. So pretty terrible. So they had both survived. He went into prison for 10 years.
He was out in 2004 at the age of 58 years old. Yeah. He moved to Paisley. And he was homeless.
Because obviously, you know, what is he going to do? He doesn't deserve a home. He certainly doesn't. Well, in 2005, he met a woman named Cheryl McLachlan.
She was 24 years old. And her boyfriend at the time had met Peter. And had to like, watch football with him a couple of times. Like, they were just like casual, like acquaintances.
Like, he didn't really know him. He just, you know? Yeah. And so she kind of trusted him because her boyfriend knew him.
Right. And one day before her boyfriend was coming home, she agreed to sit and watch TV with him. Oh, no. Well, he had hidden a belt and some kind of ligature between the seats.
OK, Golden State killer. And she happened to look. And she was like, what the fuck is that? Like, she was immediately like, oh, that's not normal.
Which would go down her for being like, nope. So she immediately tries to leave. Because she's like, yeah, I'm uncomfortable. Some shit about that.
You see a never good guy. Listen to that gut, man. Listen to that gut. Well, as he tries to leave, he attacked her.
He pulled out a knife and cut her hand. But she survived and was able to get away. She ended up becoming like super depressed and like having a ton of issues from it. Because there was such a traumatizing experience.
Because clearly he was planning to do something. And when she found out later who he was, she was like, oh my god. Look, he was going to kill me. Right.
That was going to happen. So once this happened, he dips again. He gets out of there. He's going to come up with a new alias now.
It's crazy to me how people can like just disappear. Right. Yeah. Because he's lying to the radar.
So now he ends up showing up at a soup kitchen connected to a church. This church was St. Patrick's Roman Catholic Church. It was in Anderson in Glasgow.
And they hired him eventually as a handyman. Because he was just going to the soup kitchen for a while. Then he was like kind of helping out at the soup kitchen. Then they hired him as a handyman for the church.
They hired him. And he said his name was Patrick McLaughlin. And that was a lie. Was a lie.
He was a lie. That's not fair enough. That's John's favorite. Oh, yeah.
He loves the last name McLaughlin. McLaughlin or McLaughlin. That's so funny. So and it's funny because he's like, my name is Patrick McLaughlin.
It's like at St. Patrick's Church. Very creative. Really?
You fuck. Did you just come up with that? He probably did. And he was like McLaughlin.
That's an easy name to just throw out here. My name is St. Patrick. My name is St.
Patrick's Roman Catholic Church. Hello. I'm here to help. It'd be even funny if he was like, my name is Patrick St.
My name is Patrick St. And I am from this church. I am from the Roman Catholic Church. And I help you.
So they were like, cool, cool. So later they said he was really helpful. And Chama. They called him, quote, a godsend.
Because they said he's such a good handyman. He's a loser. He's a loser for a son. He was a huge something.
So he suddenly, I think, very shortly after he started really working for them, he started noticing and becoming obsessed with a 23-year-old woman who lived in the place that was connected next door to the church. Her name was Angelica or Angelica. I think it's Angelica. Angelica Cluck, who lived.
And she was literally adjoining the church. She was a student from, I'm going to say this wrong, Goxau near Krakow. Krakow? Krakow?
Krakow. It's Krakow. I was wrong. So it's Goxau near Krakow.
And she was Polish. OK. So I'm sorry. I am not.
So it was only six weeks after he had started working at the church in noticing Angelica that on September 24, 2006, she goes missing. And he's old at this point. Yeah. So and again, she was a student.
She was just living there, going to school, trying to make some extra money to pay for school. Just living her damn life. She was helping out the church. She attended the church.
So she goes missing. She was last seen with Patrick McLachlan. Not good. She was helping him paint a shed.
And she took that odd job, again, as a way to help pay her tuition. So police released Patrick's picture to the public. And five days later, they found her dead. No.
She was stuffed under the floorboards of the fucking church next to the confessional. Of the church? Yup. They determined that she had been tied up, raped, beaten, and stabbed 19 times.
Oh. And she was alive when she was put in the floorboards. Oh, no. And I think one of the pathologists that consulted on this case later, her name is Julie.
I believe I talk about it later. I'll Julie McAdam. That's her name. She's a forensic pathologist.
She actually got down in the floorboards to examine her. Yeah. And she said, first of all, it was one of the most horrific things she's ever seen. It was making me feel like I can't breathe.
Well, she said when she was down there, she said the feeling that you were being trapped was so overwhelming, even though I knew I was going to get out. So she said, her, I can't imagine what she was going through. No. No.
She couldn't get out. No. She was bound. Right.
Like bound gagged wasn't able to move. And then he just was bleeding. He was bleeding about the head. Like, yeah.
So she probably suffocated and blood out. Yeah. All of the above. Yep.
So it's so unbelievable. Seriously. So again, people were like, yeah, we saw her with Patrick McLaughlin. That's who we saw her with last.
Like you needed. But he had dipped. Right. So rather, Gary or Jerry Nugent was a parish priest at the St.
Patrick's Roman Catholic Church. And he like talked to the press. And he said he was quote utterly shattered that Angelica had been found in the church. And when I was horrified, he was meanwhile this fucking priest was accused of raping upwards of 40 women and children.
No. So fuck that guy. Seriously. And this guy went on TV and was like, oh, it's just so sad.
The church. And it's like, go fuck yourself. Clearly this church doesn't mean anything to you. It's just your like hunting grounds.
I just had to put that out there. That guy's a fucking demon. So fuck him. So Peter Tobin or Patrick McLaughlin was caught because DNA revealed that this person named Pat McLaughlin was actually Peter Tobin.
That must be so confusing as an end investigator. Like, wait, who am I actually going after? And so when they brought him in for questioning when they finally got him, he said that he had a sexual relationship with Angelica. But it was mutually consensual.
And they were like, no. Was there murder also consensual? Like what was the fucking murder? Well, he said, I had nothing to do with a murder.
Because they were like, we have your semen on her. And he was like, well, yeah, we had a sexual relationship. But I didn't kill her. No.
And it was like, no. They had a ton of forensic evidence against him. They were like, no, we literally have everything. DNA was found on his DNA.
It was found on the cloth that was stuffed in her mouth, like gagging her. So they were like, how did that happen? Like, no. He had also thrown away his blood soaked jeans with her blood on them.
And they were traced back to him. And they were found in like, I think they called it like a rolly bin in the church. Like you just threw it in a fucking bin. Just right there.
Like an idiot. You're dumb. Yeah. I mean, I'm glad he's dumb.
So in that consultant pathologist that I talked about before, Julie McAdams said, when she took a look at the wounds, which when they showed the photos of them in court, several people literally ran out of the court because they were like, it was so horrific. They said that the blows and stab wounds were so frenzied and angry that they said there was definitely a sexual motive to this whole thing. Yeah, for sure. Well, he probably was sexually obsessed.
And I wonder if he tried to do something. And she was like, no. And she was like, no. Because it seemed like there's some kind of reach.
Which acted in his advances. Right. So gross. So he was arrested.
He was sentenced to life with a minimum of 21 years. And then what happened? Now, once this happened, criminal psychologists and criminologists, all these people were like, this doesn't. Because right now they're thinking this is his first murder.
Yeah. So they're like, this seems like a really intense first murder to commit at like 58 years old. Right. That's weird.
And psychologists are like, no, that just doesn't line up. The only murder. Yeah, they're like, this just isn't you have to have priors. So of course, they were like, well, he did try to gas the 14 year old girls after raping them.
And he had stabbed one. So like he was definitely that had already happened. He was escalating at this point. But there had to be something that was in between these things.
You didn't just go from like that to that. And there was a long period between that too. Exactly. So this is when Operation Anagram became a thing.
Fun. Right. So bad. I love operations.
It's so metal. I like it's with operations. And like with operations and grams. Like, let's put on our badges and get it.