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On this episode, Tom, Bill U stops by and we talk impact, motherfuckers. Hey, everybody. This is Gary Vay, nerd chuck, and this is episode 299 of the Ask Gary V show. I asked a question a minute.
This episode 299, which means, hey, we need a real strategy for episode 300, B, I'm super fun to hear. Dude, I'm psyched to be here, man. Tell the man or nation who you are. My name is Tom, Bill U.
I'm one of the co-founders of Quest Nutrition and now I'm doing impact theory. Came up as an entrepreneur because I was super frustrated with my inability to get a movie made the way that I wanted to. And I met these two successful entrepreneurs and I said, look, dude, if you want to control the art, you got to control the resources. So come with us and get rich.
And we all thought it would take about 18 months. I thought this is amazing. It took 15 years. At the time, like 25, 26.
This is such a good place to go to right before I let you continue. Like, this is my whole damn thesis of like lack of impatience and like not contextual raising time. When you're 25, 18 months seems like a long time. We're going to put a lot of work.
Yeah, so true. And now in your 40s, 15 years doesn't seem so long. It's a context of time. Yeah, for sure.
Really cool. Okay. What were you guys going to first do? I started in technology and chased that.
It was literally chasing money. That was it. My soul folks, I woke up every day saying I'm going to get rich. It was the like centralized.
And when you think of, do you think that that's what made you successful or do you think when you changed that thesis? Precisely. When I changed that thesis. So doing that, I actually did on paper.
It was a multi-millionaire. But I had so burnt out. I went and quit and I gave the equity back. I said, look, I'm not going to cross the finish line.
I was a little bit nervous. Oh, I said, oh, I said, oh, I know. And so I'm going to build a blokey book and film a book about it. And I was really, really nervous on it.
And I said, no. And so then I said, oh, this book is going to be really busy. And I said, oh, this book is going to be worth more than seven figures or seven figures, just like a lot of people running around now who are rich on paper, but when the economy collapses that company goes out of business, they're going to be zero. Yeah.
People do not understand the difference between real money and paper money man. It's crazy. It's why I keep putting out that content and putting out. I'm like, cool.
I'm glad that you work at this startup that's not worth a billion. raising round and your direct to consumer jiggle company doesn't make any doesn't can't raise more capital than it goes for zero yeah like everyone these kids have to learn about the crash of 2001 and 2007 but they don't right it's fucking bad anyway so that's you were on paper you had money yep you did for how many years that was about the six and a half year mark was when I said I got about so for six and a half years you did something that made you look like you had something on paper because you were burnt out and didn't feel right you gave it back which in essence made it meant you made no money correct so you're basically starting over yep thousand percent tell them one more time yeah yeah I started over because I wanted to feel a lot too yeah and nothing that's right so that's me though Andy I go my dad store for him and at 30 fucking 4 I was worth nothing like but that hang in the air I mean yeah I needed to hang in the air because everybody like looks at us and you know I just don't I wish people understood the one thing I really wish they understood is that dude I totally get the chasing the Lambo's and all this like I actually get it but at the end of the day as somebody who lived that and tried that and thought that it was gonna be rad I'm just telling you fucking sucks like it will drain your soul in a way you can't predict until you're doing it yeah and one super fun upfront like at halftime you're like this was exactly right the first three years were awesome exactly because but not because of the money it was awesome because I was getting more powerful I was learning business I get like this is amazing I felt like I controlled my destiny I was like this is the shit and then like after a while started to take from me it started to erode me as a person and I was losing my relationships it was just it was gnarly and my wife pulled this item like this is now damaging our relationship because I was so unhappy at work and I want to talk about it at work which meant I didn't talk to her about the number one thing in my life just bananas I was just doing it ass backwards this is all pre-like social media so when I went in and left it was like I have no idea what I'm gonna do I just know I'm gonna pursue something that makes me feel a lot of next so I go and I quit and they say the famous words which were we could do this without you but we don't want to and so I was like well I've already done the hard thing which is quit so let me tell you the truth of who I am because I've been telling you that all I want is to get rich and that you know do anything build this business and that's not true yeah and it was camaraderie is a higher value for me than pursuing money meaning and purpose of what I'm really driven by I need to be passionate about what I'm doing and so for three that articulately or do it was pretty close man I articulates my game yeah so yes I was a pretty important yeah so in the meeting when I quit I was fucking mess so no there I was like you know and then they said look let's go out to dinner and talk and then once we got there then yeah I was back not then but when we did quest which is of course what is born out of this moment of crisis we were equal partners so this tech thing you had yeah you quit you guys calm down decide to become equal a third or third I assume yep just asking in what and what literally you went from that to starting quest yep a direct to consumer yep like health yeah so literally and we went from technology to food and everybody was like what the hell are you doing like that such as that this was 2009 when we started conceiving it and then 2010 when we officially started selling and you sold it first direct to consumer yo yes what was the original quest of our model what version of direct consumer so we were online it was online only you'd come to our website and we would sell you there literally just off of our website how are you doing paid media traffic arbitrage no we were doing influencer market exclusively but it wasn't called that really back then at least we didn't know that so we were just out there on Facebook yeah literally like I would drive this is a real story if you seemed like you might be an influencer I would drive the fuck bars your house if you were anywhere near us and like park around the blocks my car was such a piece of shit I don't want you to see that we were just you know putting this all together and I would deliver the bar in hopes that I could make some sort of impression on you about what we were doing were you savvy enough already hoping they would post on social or even was it just definitely yeah yes thousand percent are hoping and they didn't know how valuable that was correct and that's the art correct yeah it was and it was I mean you obviously know it was a really cool time and if you were doing something real and it was beautiful and people could really resonate with what you were doing so our thing was community community community add value to people's lives don't try to sell them shit and it was not just social like he probably is gonna answer maybe not but like this was like even when like a forum post or on your own blog like attention was in a lot of different places back then oh yeah dude forums we lived on forums it was crazy guys forums and ways versions of Reddit yes and it changes so fast like the one just constant in the game is that whatever you're doing today is not gonna work six months now so my strength because I'm unemotional about where the attention is bro I'm telling you my can't wait like I'm like literally sometimes laying on like a flatbed flight on a red-eye and like just the last time I thought of it so I'm gonna use that example and like dude I can't wait for there not to be social media right like not a bit because I'm gonna be dominating whatever the fuck is happening and then then everybody will understand my thesis more because right now they don't understand that I've been day trading attention my whole life right and that this just happens to be when I most popped so this is what you think I am oh no I get the game trust me I know you don't so okay so then you build a monster fucking company we built a monster fun company and it blew up and then five years we went from not existing to being valued at over a billion dollars doing hundreds of millions in revenue and it was in manufacturing dude like really think about that it's one thing to do it in software no no you're preaching yeah it was when the cocoa trees are fucking white that's the rain people don't get it all my team in house like guys we're going in pitching content their meeting for this was their supplier for for the fava beans which is the corn green in the product like died and the family selling the farm and like they can't make cocoa puffs that's real that's real it's crazy and you get locked into we got locked into an almond contract at one point that has a material impact on your business so it's like in fact somebody was just asking outside that what makes you unique and I think I spent the last almost 20 years building businesses like sitting down forecasting sales meetings dealing with retailers who are pissed like trying to figure out channel conflict what is channel conflict you know what I mean like when you're having to do all that shit suddenly coming in putting a mic in front of you it's just like you've got a wealth of shit that you've had to do an encounter to draw on when you first discovered me and we got to know each other last couple years is that the part that was most interesting to you that like as you were starting to build your content personal brand and content ambitions and doing it well they're like oh Gary's like me like he's an operator and does content as a person the real answer that question is I was so pissed off by you really listen to this so I start doing before it's called social media all that stuff I you know we're doing it and we're fucking doing it better than anybody else I was about community when no one was talking about that was about authenticity and transparency before those became buzzwords they're just going to have because that's where I was right I'm not chasing money anymore because I'm doing something I care about I'm saving my mom and my sister like this real for me so because of that and it was coming from somewhere so real we were doing social before anybody else creating all of our own content everything it was so like for real I wanted to touch people's lives and so we blew up and I felt like I'm changing shit like I get it I get something nobody else gets that the number one most powerful marketing vehicles being a good person like this fun crazy like we're living in this weird time we're just because I actually give a shit and if I did something like my product and work for you what I'll not only will I take it back refund you I'll give you more for free like whatever right and it just right time then my team starts going Tom you've got a step out front dude you've got a step out front we want to start filming you and I was like absolutely fucking not that is so weird like I want to be in the background definitely not my personality to one step out front and then you started popping off and they kept rubbing you in my face and they're like look at this motherfucker look what he's doing dude like he's popping off people really listen to his message and I was listening I'm like this fucking guy's real every word out of his mouth is fucking real and if people take his advice and that's the thing I used to laugh about I was like guaranteed most people are not actually taking his advice but I'm gonna start taking his advice because it's real and I can see and I saw that you saw from a personal branding perspective what I missed and so this is probably about four years ago I was like alright this dude fucking figured it out and now I'm in second place I do not fucking like second place so I need to start hustling and I need to get a show and I need to do the shit and so we would literally just like how do we bring all this stuff that I've been doing behind the scenes and how do we translate it in front of the camera but it really borne out of watching you leap frog me because you were I have so much you know I always love pointing to you and you know you were early client of inner talent which you know as an evolving business for us here and I remember just like leave I don't know maybe you were in that city or Andy but I remember like walking on like guys he's super smart like he's like doing it for the exact right reason like he's gonna absolutely like rent the milk like if you remember and it's just true I was like hey well we can help you build it for yourself but you're like nah it's valuable for me to pay the fee I can see every nuance but it was like I remember that meeting so clearly but what I love was you built an actual business real quick I'm not even sure I know this quest sold well we sold a piece so I still have massive ownership I'm just not involved a day so who did sell to what what so we had we brought in private private equity yeah but just the valuation was so crazy that the dollars it was pure diversification on our part so now all the sudden who's operating now so my two partners are still there they brought in a new CEO just to like and you are the CEO no I was the president and so businesses go through phases you know and who's right in one minute it's not necessarily right in the next right so when I left they just change things up a bit and off to the races they went and so what's going on with you now for the audience so I've launched a new company called impact theory which literally no bullshit when I got into business it was because I couldn't get the films made that I wanted to make now admittedly my whole thesis around what film can be changed in the intervening time and now I've become all about impact but and this is one of the things you and I talked about in the beginning is I was telling everybody look what Disney just did by buying Marvel like you don't understand what's going on and I pitched it to you and you said my whole life is predicated on the fact that isn't just about Marvel so I was like all right so my whole thing is Disney did something nobody else did which is they told one kind of story from thousand different angles and because of that their brand means something so if I say I'm gonna go see a Paramount movie or universal movie you know nothing about it but if I say I'm gonna go see a Disney movie you already know something so I'm all about impact I'm all about reaching out and touching people's lives in a for real way and hopefully we'll get into that because I've recently been really strong here yeah that would be amazing you're going to take it there right now so basically yeah so I want to really touch people's lives I have I've worked in the inner cities a lot started when I was 18 for extra credit I did an eight-week assignment with this little kid who was like drug and alcohol impacted totally off to just out of his mind and he would freak out when I try to help with his homework cry just a nightmare and then when I say I have to leave then he would beg and plead and cry and all that I would say week five I realized he's trolling me and that he actually knows exactly what he's doing I thought this fucking kid's sharp so then I've had a little respect for him and at week six you have to tell him I'm only coming for two more weeks so I tell him he goes nuclear I mean just I've never seen a human that disrupt and so finally I'm like is it because I said I'm only coming for two more weeks he says yes I say look man because by now like I really course so I'm like as long as I live in Los Angeles as long as I live in Los Angeles I'll help you with your homework but you have to do it the second I get here no more this like fighting stuff that becomes an eight and a half year relationship completely changes my life I didn't know it at the time he's being abused by his adoptive mother he gets taken out they make me the guardian I have to help him to foster I mean it was like there's some heavy shit for an early 20-something kid from Tacoma and going through that process I just had this overwhelming feeling that this kid could be something he could be really special he's a beautiful human being but he's never going to be because what he's been taught is so limiting that and so I used to take him to movies in Beverly Hills because I was broke but movies cost the same and I wanted him to see beautiful places yeah wanted him to have something to aspire to so anyway flash forward 15 years now I've got about 3,000 employees about a thousand of them group hard as hell like one kid held his stepfather while he bled to death from a gunshot wound to the head another his sister was shot in the heart with an 8k 47 in his front yard when she was 12 I mean just like story after story after story and I had that same feeling again these are amazing fucking people do it but they're never gonna do anything and so back in the early days of quest I interviewed everybody if you wanted to work there you can interview for me whether you're janitor EVPS sales didn't matter and so I had this magic genie question because I wanted to know what you were really about and so hey a magic genie is about to show up the great one wish and one wish only can't be more wishes or to cure cancer bring somebody back from the dead Scottie for you what you want dude I must ask that question I'm not kidding 300 times what are the odds every single person give me the same answer literally every single person one million dollars what I was like I had that reaction so at person at person 10 I actually said to the team are you guys fucking with me like are you prepping them beforehand because it doesn't make any sense you can't get a house in LA for a million dollars it's a magic fucking genie you don't ask for a money machine or a trillion dollars just for a million dollars they have to pay taxes on it exactly but it's 650 or it's at least 800 it was so crazy to me and so what it showed me was frame of reference I apologize the million dollar thing really fucks with me too because the one percent of earners in America the bottom of it starts at 440 and this million fucks with everyone yeah I wish the answer to that question was 440 because then it would then it would be based on the merit of reality the delta between 440 and a million is pretty significant and everybody thinks a million is just the beginning of any level success it's I think about it all the time anyway keep going so it it was the only truthful answer is it was heartbreaking and I thought all right the frame of reference is what's keeping them stuck it's not that they're not smart it's not that they can't learn they can so it is entirely that they don't believe that their energies will be rewarded with powerful knowledge so they don't read a book say anything will come with it they don't dream big enough they don't think that they can so I was just like I'm gonna get some more if you're watching on Facebook or Instagram live right now Tom and I gonna Tom's about the segue into what he really wants to talk about but then we'll do a couple questions it's Gary VEE team at VaynerMedia.com put your question in the title and your phone number in the body there it is go ahead what do you want to segue into so my whole thing is how do you help people like that at scale how do you really do it so you're gonna build a media company around that correct I love it so there it is I know it's fucking right thank you man what you have to do is do what you have to do is follow what we're doing at Vayner I got to show you actually obviously we're gonna be seeing each other probably a lot more given what we'll announce in a minute you just made the best decision you're like that when you decided to join me and create with me Vayner speakers did you and we know each other like eight years cool it's even better than you thought right yeah that's all I need to hear in fairness yeah he actually said that outside what he said never know cameras that it was better than he thought he said I knew it was gonna be big I knew it was gonna be special but it's actually better because what I do is sand I sand bag everything about it and me and it's like you're so good bro honestly you're such a good dude I'm so pumped what we're looting to really right now everyone's confused is we're gonna be an announcement or speakers as you guys know Zach is the CEO we work together for a long time we was at CA and we had a great run our big lover CA speaking all that Peter Jacob speech out to you I love you and we're gonna announce our roster probably in a month or so within a month soon but Tom is one of the first turns who's with us exclusively we're gonna be doing a speech so we're gonna hang out I have a funny feeling for five events next year we'll be speaking the same event so I'm able to see you but where's I going with that fuck there was an interesting thing anything else you want to say we're getting to questions no man ready let's do it have you been doing investing like you made a lot of money yep that's not as fun as it sounds right it's not I hate it's not not completely almost my thing is I'd rather I get I want to do some sort of like incubator I want to invest anymore I want to find kids that and you and old people like I don't even fuck people that have like a three to seven million dollar business and I want them to give me 49% of it and then I want to like just plug it in and make it do 100 yeah I think I can do that consistently we had a close deal soon I fucked up I love when people overplay their hands right love it don't overplay your hands kids a lot of people fake it and posture if you run into a real winner like Tom and I we might say no and then the whole deal is dead I'm amazing brother you're on the ask ID show with me and Tommy B are you watching clearly you're watching how's the show going so far Tom's killing it right like he's completely charming your pants off right you're Tom is the man I'm watching a lot of his impact here he's looking at my voice Simon cynic like took over the internet yeah that was crazy like you know Simon Scott super viral video by the way we made the best video of all time I made a video that recorded me rebuttling Simon on certain things about millennials while I watched it for the first time wow we played it they're recording me I'm talking over the two of you and I think the video would have had a trillion views the reality is I have so much respect and I love Simon that I felt like and I'm so team millennial and I hate what's happening with people misbranding them that I felt like I was to teeth and I didn't want to become a meaver Simon thing so I never aired it watch 30 seconds talk for 10 minutes was really really good I was like I can't always published this but then you don't want to publish it until you fully watch it and keep grounded in what was saying so we waited on it but then a week later it already had its moment yeah I can do it right now it's a piece of amazing content it's done I have too much admiration for Simon and I felt like my energy was kind of like my trash talk ran it out a bunch of stuff in trash talk episode 3 because my energy was in a place where I switched into the competitive you know anyway sorry Tom that video fucking was bananas bananas and that was that was all him dude he just smashed it he just smashed it do you feel like anyway nonetheless what's your question brother hey so we'll go into my question you talk about trash talk 3 up all the info and that I think that's a major key for anybody who's looking for like make some extra money or who takes their day job so if you're listening and maybe this happens after definitely check out trash talk series like Gary's making 20 to shout out that you know what that's that shadow it's kind of why I like Tom and me like I like practical operating practitioners like I love that shit like learning how to make $230 a week extra on offer up and on Craigslist and Facebook marketplace at eBay is just smart because not only for a lot of people 800 bucks a month is game-changing and you and I share the perspective of seeing other parts of the world where fucking 200 bucks a month is a big deal number two it teaches you shit anyway go ahead with your questions we're about to hang up on your face I lost you for a second brother one more time how do you change a culture corporation as an employee Tom yeah man I think the the real honest answer is unless it is being supported from the top down it will never ever work so you can go to them and if you can get your leadership on board then you've got a shot if you cannot get them on board it will never work and if the culture is that dysfunctional my advice to you is if the top is gonna get on get out yeah I'm gonna be even more black and white even though I know exactly what it was saying the answer is you can't even if you like for example me I'm like a really good dude like but still if it's pitched into me I have to manipulate it into mine or I don't like it as much that's just what the leader does you do that any it's funny right you guys have like strategized how to make me feel like it's mine otherwise you know never do stuff you're laughing right what happens you guys just sit up there and try to figure out how we make Gary feel like this is his otherwise he will completely not support it right we're not so I'm not to think about that yeah so so anyway brother listen if you're a company look culture to me is really interesting I think companies build it from the get so if you have the original founder there and it's not good get the fuck out because she or he was never on board if you don't have the original founder and they've been there for more than a year or two get the fuck out because they changed it I literally tell my whole company and all hands-on company meetings hey real quick by the way before you end this meeting if I ever sell this place quit the next day because everything I promise you is not true anymore so I'm I'm with Tom man like company like unless you miraculously have leverage on the singular A leader of the company which even a three-person partnership there is an A within that you will not be able to change the culture because culture 100% stems from top you're either CEO that likes happiness and impact and like why we have a good culture is I hate negativity I'm weirded out by it and so because I'm also the best money earner nobody has leverage on me so I fire other people that don't do good things to my culture unless you have a leader like that that means they care about the money the culture has no fucking prayer no culture man is is literally everything my thing is my new like absolute obsession is emotional safety and it's one of those things people talk about business feel super weird to say words like emotional safety but I'm telling you right now like if whatever you do whether you're starting your own business or you're in a business look for somewhere where you can have emotional safety because coming into work and feeling good about it is a big deal and I think there are two metrics and this is really gonna get people in a weird place metric number one laughter how often do people laugh you have to fucking pay attention to that and then number two and dude the first time this really occurred to me was I was in your office and I was looking out and I saw two people put their arms around each other I thought wow that's interesting and so when you build emotional safety you will just see that people connect and bond in a way that becomes like physically stressed you can see Vayner media weddings they're absurdity people that haven't been ever sick like lifelong friendships that's trust managed emotional safety being built in Bali right now by Sean Kaleo and Consuda like this is like in perpetuity like I tell everybody it's like it's like a framework I totally agree my big one that's more practical by like yours better I hate that I have to be a straight man but it's a good one for a lot of people listening is voluntary retention like the way I judge Vayner is how many people that I really give a fuck about that I think are awesome people and are awesome at their job have left Vayner the numbers staggeringly low I know we got something yeah totally you know thank you for a question brother Gary like this is a point um Google did a study on the type of teams and they call it Project Aristotle and it makes sense but here's the problem Google stuck because they're publicly traded company and that's why they have the entire company walk out on them they're stuck your guys life is binary like either you're make as a business either you care more about the money or more about the feeling you feel in running it I am a I would be fired by every publicly true if Vayner my public I'd be fired fired fast I have easily taken this business from 40 to 140 million revenue and 200 over the kind of holding company and I'm making way less money today than we did at 40 god that's so interesting and I really hope people are listening no no for real hold on because that dude that's the juice once you understand that in your life motherfuckers you're either going to be chasing money or you're going to be chasing fulfillment and nary the twin shell meet and when you when you chase fulfillment you may also build a massive fucking company I'm gonna do both I always say and I'm making up the rules that I'm gonna be the best entrepreneur because I'm gonna make the most money and have the most impact on other entrepreneurs yeah no I love that and I think there's a third part of that that I clearly see in your company and is literally the the cornerstone of impact theory and that is people over everything it's the connection that each person feels the trust from that we'll be able to do something extraordinary because when you believe in people your guard is down your motion invested where does entitlement fall into it because I will tell you one of the flaws in me running Vayner over the last seven years and we've gotten a lot better last two years and well in our way but I definitely created a macro culture of entitlement because I had people over everything and I took everything on my head yeah so it's two things one it is absolute high standards so you have to have standards explain what they are and know what people have to do in order to be in that sort of safety circle and then the other is your boy Ray Dalio looking at you girl Lindsey down there so Ray and his whole notion of say truth here truth that that is the one time I would say when I read that book changed me forever is an entrepreneur because it was a failure of my imagination to believe that you could hold them thousands of people in an organization to and this is how he says it and this is so true even if you have a criticism that you're prepared to take to the grave that you don't even say to your significant other you still have an obligation to voice that super fascinating because that's absolutely not a strength of my radical candor something I continue to evolve into it just doesn't you know I'm really great when shit comes natural to me like I I just don't like money and I will use money and I will and I'm really emotionally strong I will help you other people like it's really funny radical candor and that even to that level is absurd no question is a strength of his and others that I haven't had now I've gotten dramatic my brother had AJ's was much better at it naturally I've got a lot better and it's been a strength of mine look today we fired somebody that it fucking everything about for nine days super not pumped I feel like shit right now but if I don't do it the whole fucking thing crumbles yeah it's toxic for other people so people are everything doesn't mean keeping people around even though you manipulated your own self in believing they're better off with you than not with you true but here's part of why I say people over everything and it doesn't mean that I'm just gonna let you get away with murder it's like you've got the collective and for the collective to have trust in all of that then they have to know that if somebody isn't living up to it they're not carrying their end of the bargain that they're gonna be like oh like simple ass but that is gonna be done openly and respectfully and that you're gonna help them transition out gracefully unless somebody's just like willfully horrible happens to is we're ego of hiring people hire people they end up being awful and they don't want to meet the mistake of me for sure yeah hello yeah yeah this is Kallen Kallen Kallen it's Gary Vaynerchuk you're on the ask Gary V show with Tom bill you life is good my man man thanks for having me on your show I really really appreciate it I'm gonna get straight to the point that on your time is really expensive I just had a question you know this is something to do with my life I've been in the exotic car business for a very long time you know it's a very expensive business to get into as someone in my shoes you know an entrepreneur you know don't have you know a lot of funding behind me at all actually so I have a large list of contacts I've been networking for a long time it's not the great to make the Handy Shake so I met a lot of people a lot of celebrities you know a lot of celebrities you know music artists all walks of life and I've been doing this for about 10 years I'm 26 now I've been in the game for about 10 years dude how do you not have an Instagram link at the bottom of your website when you're in the most visual and kind of exotic car world I you know I definitely I have a really nice Instagram I mean I have a nice website with some fucking exotic fucking animal on top of a cool car but you have literally the Facebook and Twitter logo at the bottom but not the Instagram one I know so that would actually ideally but I worked for it I got it I'm currently working for myself now I think we a broker respect and now I'm working all by myself and brokering to you know taking clients because clients come back to me they don't come back to you as they come back to leverage exactly what's the question my question is now basically I have the experience I have the clients you know the demand is there I'm getting called every time you know a concert in town I think celebrities need cards for rental they want to buy you cards I'm trying to figure out how how do I get to the next level Gary as far as getting funding to start a company like that how do I find investors who have the capital and are looking for you know that kind of a business you're entire fucking life is interacting with people that have that kind of money and you know that's very true Gary I mean I mean people are billionaires I mean all sorts of people but here's the biggest you know thing I have to overcome overcome I feel like every time this is an objection is that I'm young I don't have like per se I track record brother brother the number one was the number one mistake that people make in life let alone business is they say no for the other party without asking word yeah mhm like now if you like you know look I've empty I hate asking anybody for anything so you've got these clients it doesn't feel appropriate from transitioning to you just rented them out something and you're like hey give me a million bucks but inevitably you've now interacted with some fucking ballers an eighth time a tenth time some of them have even shown a liking towards you because they see them Tom and I'm sure do this just knowing him a little bit like when we see ourselves and people you just gravitate towards it you're like because you're just always very aware that circumstances helped you so much and so I'm always in the business of helping somebody else when it feels right you just live it that way right that's just a fucking game look brother you're gonna have to ask somebody for the money right and a kid like you who's more like a kid like me you're not gonna get it from traditional VC's they don't invest in shit like this and we don't have the pedigree to get money from those people you have the pedigree to get money from other hustlers for sure well here goes nothing Gary you ready to invest in my company or what a hundred thousand percent not here's why you must have either missed it a few minutes ago or you skipped over it I literally just said eleven minutes ago that I hate fucking investing I know I'm just messing with you I really appreciate you having me on your show and I did want to tell you you know I never kept it above me to do other side hustle like on a garage sale or picking up line birds and scooters and charging money I've been doing all the things that you're not trying to save up money and then for you man look there's a lot of your vibe that's interesting man like you come from an industry that I'm always scared of it's the slickiest of the slick but you articulated yourself even like in my intuitive feelings which I go by all the time look man listen I really appreciate that let me say something to everybody's listening the reason so many kids are starting companies and want to get venture capital is if they fail they don't have to pay anybody back I think there's another reason there's a lot of reason I but this is one that nobody talks about Tom yeah fair you get a 25% of your company the amount of people that I think are starting companies startups that already know on day one that they have no chance of success is remarkably high but the capital they raise allows them to live the lifestyle with no damage to their credit there's too much fucking money in the system here's why I'm telling you that if you really believe in yourself bro and you've been doing something for 10 years and this is a brainfuck everybody on my team I hate when people have credit card debt like it's my freak out of freakout right or debt in general I will tell you that I've been at my best when I knew that I was operating not taking any chance and when I'm willing to do that I'm willing to do anything to get the money like fucking loan shark shit like Mafioso breaks my life shit you know why because if I understand the interest and I understand I can get I can figure it out even if I'm paying 50% interest let alone five the days of getting money from the bank people don't think about that anymore but let me give you where I'm actually going you know any kids should be asking their parents for money or the rich aunt a lot the problem is they're not thinking about it right they need to walk into the rich aunt and say Aunt Sally I need 150k but I will pay you back and if I if it dies I will then get a job and I will pay you back five thousand bucks every quarter for the rest of my fucking life people are not putting their fucking balls on the line you aren't doing that anymore everybody wants to raise money and give up to 100% of a company worth nothing you don't have to risk it when you're delirious the reason I'm giving you this advice is you've been doing it for a decade you feel intuitively right to me so I'm saying to you do what Tom and I did and live the practical life not this bullshit life live the practical life man I and you know what that was the first step for me to move forward is to stop trying to live up to everybody's expectations stop looking at everybody out and humble myself and actually have my friend moment you know split their lives you know share a studio humility humility for the alpha male and woman in their 20s humility is the secret fucking sauce but now let's push it did you actually do that yeah I did because here's the thing I was always trying to buy the most expensive stuff everybody when I stopped doing that and I just focused on myself and accepted myself or what position I'm in and I'm like okay Cali you're fucking shit in the toilet yes you know you need to you need to get your stuff together all living costs yes and just like you every little side hustle that I can I can maximize my time now that I've been working for myself so I could do a bunch of little stuff you know at night I'm doing the scooters I mean I'm doing 4050 scooters at night we're going to garage sales picking up stuff free off cake this you know I'm marching stuff online for people Google ads and I'm doing a bunch of stuff and I have my cousin are you happy and you're happy you know what I'm very happy so that's real quick because there's a lot of bubbling up of like Gary pushing people to work too hard and all this stuff and I'm watching it I'm like I love one elitist who worked their faces off to make a bunch of money then tell everybody else not to work hard anyway so so so to me if you love what you're doing and you're happy and you're mentally and physically healthy do you I'm not judging anybody about doing anything but it's all about self-awareness and putting a framework around where you don't keep up with Joneses yeah I want to put my finger on something so did your vibe change so much when you got into the pocket on where you're confident humans lead with belief in the beginning you didn't have that belief because you're stretching for the fancy cars and all that but when you slid back to you I'm living in a studio apartment with you know six other dudes I believe in you and if you came to me with that hustle and you're like look motherfucker I have boiled my life down to nothing I have no expenses I eat top ramen and I grinded the fuck out from the floor of my friend's bathroom I will make this shit if you give me money I will spend the rest of my life paying you back the fails and you have that belief because you actually believe it you know it's true you know you can do that and you're operating from a position of strength now just your energy is gonna convince people to get on board with you but when you try to posture hustle like from a place it's not real that's where people don't bite into you and the beauty is like that's what I sense like the whole time dude this is really cool by the way this is the kissing cousin to why I want kids to stop taking money from their parents it all comes on the same thing it's called fake environments either you live on your merit or you don't mm-hmm yeah I've been on my own since I was 15 and I'm very thankful for it because my parents instilled me with the right morals and the right hustle at a young age and then I you know it's first to be a man on my own and I work mechanic shop and I think in the car thing for a long time so it's like my passion too so it goes hand-in-hand I enjoy everything that I do feel like where I love it even when I'm working awesome man thank you for call fake environments I want to wrap up with this okay you get it because last time scooter made us do another call and like turned out so awesome okay I got it tell them so about this fake environments if I can convince people that credit cards are bad that parents money is bad that posturing's bad the happiness is absurd happiness is absurd also I want to get people on obsessive thinking so one of the things you always ask me okay what's your secret to your success I normally say reading but I'll say that there's actually something else I do that people it's hard to articulate but here it goes there's a great question that Peter Thiel asks how do you take your tenure plan and make it happen in six months so if you obsessively think about how do I accelerate this like how do I what's that quantum leap forward and for him to be thinking about that like the collapsing down to very little expense so that he can get into a place is actually winning when with that build like a package up that he can go pitch to people and say like look I only want whatever I want to flip more scooters whatever so he's getting in it you know a thousand or ten thousand instead of you know 400,000 then he can build that momentum you just keep going upstream upstream upstream lack of patience yeah well it's interesting you and I disagree on the use of the word patience like so violently so my thing is fuck patience literally and but the thing is I always tell people I know what Gary means and Gary means play macro patience micro speed a thousand percent the problem is when people hear patience to get a passive yes some fucker you use the word passive though yeah exactly you can't let people get into a passive situation the words patience not passive yeah but what I'm saying is when people hear that word out of anyone's mouth I understand the life of everybody semantically articulating the manipulation of words to their non-meeting it's interesting so here's how I love it like I love like like the amount of judgment that is being thrown at me right now in circles around people manipulating the words that I'm like it's absurd like patience is not passive so my thing is how do people react to it I couldn't agree more but the reality is is if we are now in a place where we can't allow the words to actually mean what they mean we have to challenge that conversation as well because now you're getting into how people filter everything and now we're talking about the most important P which is perspective if their filter is taking it then you're you that's what gets so interesting about having to do this one-on-one versus through content content is vulnerable in its macro it's super interesting shit very interesting and I that on this particular thing like I'll say forget the words because you and I are saying the same I know I'm the last thing I want to do is argue that when we get to the point thousand percent and I'm with you my thing is how do you get people to realize that momentum is the thing that I think matters so if you have you ever been in like an above ground swimming pool you can start walking in a circle and it creates the vortex and you pick your feet up and the whole thing I was talking to you about that I got to walk you through of like what you need to do for your studio to like when the world literally what internally for a few minutes was called momentum marketing nice you can't believe yeah who's this Royce like Royce Clayton if you know Royce Clayton is leaving the comments I forget the Google exists these days I so grew up in a non-Google world he's the short stuff for the Giants what is it Royce it's Gary Venerchuk and you're in the ask Gary V show with Tom bill you oh my god holy shit I was lifting you guys live all the guys they're cool how you doing race wait where you from Royce Cincinnati Ohio are you a Bengals fan big time the Jets break on off your personally could use them up in your game but I appreciate it man you do know that the Jets beat the Bengals in a huge playoff game in Cincinnati in 2010 right oh I'm sure yeah all right go ahead I mean yeah wait I put in like a couple questions which whatever which one you want any ones that you said timing very different oh yeah Tom I love your stuff you're listening and watch a lot of impact very love it I saw you uh sorry I listened to you on the Joe Rogan experience a couple of months ago and you mentioned how you heard how some people believe that you have to be a natural porn entrepreneur or you can turn into one if you don't know it's gonna be you disagree with the fact the fact that a lot of stuff out there believe that you have to be a natural born entrepreneur I was wondering I know Gary and you say how you're only a natural born entrepreneur there's there's no thought if you've ever worked a job in your life that you uh it could be one so I guess well I think that's gonna be a natural but can you can you become an entrepreneur or do you have to be a natural born one well good news like I'll lose this right now because everybody's an entrepreneur now and most of them are not natural born entrepreneurs now let's talk about people that are successful entrepreneurs and not successful entrepreneurs that's there that's a big deal then there's also people bleeding entrepreneurship with operators so I think operators are something that could be taught and those individuals she and he are incredible COO's co-founders as the number two guys there is a mental strength that comes along with you're the last line of defense that is by definition what entrepreneurship is built around that I do think we underestimate in what is like comes natural but I think that there like I think that being a successful entrepreneur is more of a skill than a top behavior in the framework of my perspective being taught to be an operator is I see every day most great COO's are people that were taught to be an operator many of them are considered co-founders but would have not been successful without the energy of the human that was there to eat the pressure and actually lead the company is how I say it Tom yeah so this is one that I have lived the exact opposite so I started out my parents taught me to be a good employee to keep my head down to his little work is possible in the void punishment all costs I had a newspaper route I was too afraid to go knock on the doors and collect the money so for like two years I delivered the paper for half the money I could have gotten I never stole somebody sliders out of the yard and sold them back like none of that yes so but then to get what I wanted which was to make films on my terms I had to generate the capital to do that well you said earlier you were like you were into some of the flashy stuff I get why other people chase that you weren't no I was chasing I wanted money to build a studio so I knew that I had to learn a certain set of skills now my whole thing comes down to humans are the ultimate adaptation machine literally what we do is adapt that is our design so you can take there was a woman who swam the bearing straight and she turned literally over a year of cold exposure turned white adipose tissue which is the fat into what's called brown adipose tissue which generates more heat now people will believe it at the body right nobody's here telling me that I'm crazy for that so easy to show people that you can change your body but for some reason people don't think you can change the mind I completely only believe you can change the mind which is now getting into an interesting semantic so keep going yeah yeah so no I'm sorry I'm gonna go keep going but you know but you're going to answer does that mean everybody's born a natural entrepreneur that means everybody is it means everybody that meets minimum requirements and we will have to talk about that okay so that gets okay that's fine that gets into a different place yeah so if you meet minimum requirements and people do not but what if you're a cumulage one yeah what if you tom are actually a cumulage one okay so a cumulage one is born in Africa doesn't realize he's a natural great basketball player because he's not exposed to it but actually was born a natural like what if you actually were just because the environment you were in so you think I was a natural born entrepreneur just in a real environment because that's where I'm going with this which is you were an environment where your parents created the environment to eliminate the entrepreneurial right spirit but that it was down deep in there and more importantly just because ripping flowers back to first of all you had a paper out yeah let's break that down for a minute okay maybe we're scared of asking for money just like a last kid but let's really really talk about it yep the fuck were you doing with the paper out in my family you had to have a job cool parents made me get a paper out did they make you get a paper out or do you have more than one choice time now this is very important I don't remember I don't remember to me well here let's answer that question so let's assume for a second that I'm secretly a born entrepreneur in a bad environment we are okay I'm not bad environment it's bad for entrepreneurship that I have no beef with that so my thing is knowing that people can either a good environment be trained and bring out those natural inclinations or not my thing is figure out what you want to do and then go down the path of getting mastery in that I apologize not being selfish because it's so fun hanging with you fear yeah right fear is an incredible part of all this yes when when and how did you start taking fear out of the equation because that's the transition you made I don't know I would never say that I would just fear for me as a constant fear asking people for money definitively cool later you didn't know I still do interesting me too by the way this is the weirdest part of me one of the reasons I didn't finish off raising my fund is because I hate asking people for money but I don't know if I fear it I just hate it I hate I hate anybody having leverage that's really what I'm all yeah I'd really have to sit down and think about the semantics whether I just hate it or I fear it but there are definitely things that I do that I fear and I move I use fear as a guide post of where to move because my fundamental assumptions humans adapt via stress so your restrictions are an adversity are such an incredible framework right and those are the things oh by the way the biggest reason I want to talk about real and fake entrepreneurs right now you know why there's no fucking restrictions to being an entrepreneur not only in money but in the bio of your fucking Instagram account right this is it this is the punchline unlike you know you and I are so fucking similar I like have so much fun with it because that means I love you so much as fuck I love myself haha no I'm serious like by the way self love is super like the greatest game by the way loving yourself doesn't mean you're delusional and think you're great like self awareness is the foundation of loving yourself I love myself for the things that I am and I'm not it's super important like how uncommon in the same way that people are uncomfortable talking about mental health we need to start making it comfortable for people who like themselves to talk about it because it will encourage other people to realize liking yourself is an ego or delusion it's grounded in self awareness yeah here's the thing you you're superpowers you don't judge yourself you're right that became very clear to me and I you know that's by the way you know and you know what else not judging yourself does you don't judge other people either so you end up liking a lot more people your motherfuckers are judging last night I spent 98 hours consuming judgment people fucking just we're doing this post election people judge who the fuck you have no context of what's going on in somebody's bedroom or most importantly in their head you're right I don't judge myself because I know what my intent is I'm obsessed with intent it's insane how much I love everybody here if I know their intent once I once I wrap my head around one's intent it's game over it's like fucking binary switch and I'm going to bat for them in perpetuity for me outside of me with me against me if I think somebody's a good person and they're literally my direct competitor I weirdly secretly root for them in some weird way because if they're better than me they deserve to win yeah I was so pumped when I was with all those super angels and Scott Belzky and Chris Saka had better investment I had a great investing career they were better and I love talking about it right I love talking about they deserve it so I love about sports man none this bullshit of like entrepreneur entrepreneurship is amazing you know why nobody can judge it it's all hidden man God do I want the world to melt you know why people are confused everybody thinks I want the world to melt because I do a bad job communicating because I like keeping a lot of shit in that I'm gonna take advantage of it I want the world to melt because people can be happier that's really interesting Tom people are in fake environments now listen to my time smart man he gets it he gets it right away I'm serious people can be happier because everybody's living a fake life right now and keeping up with the Joneses and when everything melts everybody gets back to the right not paying the piper in 2009 in America or the economic melting and going through seven years of recession and us propping up fucked our culture in a way that nobody talks about have you read the stand by Stephen King of course I already knew the answer so here we go yeah because it it literally speaks to exactly this the center character of the book is somebody who's just popping off as a musician right when this world ending flu happens but the guy survives and so he goes from everybody loves me they're treating you well a free cocaine and then now no knows who the fuck I am and that whole machinery that was about to make me like the biggest thing in the planet just fell out from under him and he's solo and what's not solo because there's you know enough people to survive but he realizes like all that bullshit that he was chasing now that just doesn't exist so there's like the simplification of life and to your point as he gets beyond that hunger for the fame and the adulation and just has to deal with staying alive like his life actually gets better I love this shit so God can I not wait for the economic meltdown because it's the beginning of happiness at a bigger scale it's interesting so the comic book that we wrote for neon future is literally about that so I wanted to start post economic meltdown look at how people react and then super here better look like me because I fucking believe in it right we'll have to work that in Gary we'll have to work that in Caesar search wrong did we answer my question yeah yeah no yeah for sure I did have one other question that's just in like on me for about a month or so I said something that's not that long I'm gonna go fast okay okay so I'm busy you know I guess in the dirt I guess you could say I just graduated from college and I'm working for actually a startup here in Cincinnati as a big development and you know being around this environment you know I'm listening to you Gary and Tom I I truly believe I have a lot of entrepreneur like tendencies so you know I'm building my personal brand and you know just very good documenting you know things that I believe and things that I'm learning from life just through LinkedIn and vlogging good so you're documenting more than posturing right yeah I know I'm not faking it I don't know if I don't know something so I'm in the dirt but I know you also say to try as many things as possible in your age pieces I remember and this is what is hard about advice and putting out content people start blending and that's why I have a lot of empathy for your patients thing when kids ask me I have no idea what I want to do Gary I don't know what I like the only practical answer to that is like yo bro hey gal go taste some shit it sounds like you have a better feel of what you like and thus you don't have to quit this startup and be a sous chef right no I guess I guess my fault I don't question that is you know I in doing this I have a lot of people ask me why are you doing this what are you doing you're like what are you trying to get out of the um or where do you see or what are you trying to be in 30 in 10 years or tell them to go fuck themselves who gives a shit you don't know feel fucking no ask brother the next time somebody says we're gonna be at 30 or do you see yourself in five years or 10 years look at the face and say what about you you're miserable fucking 54 year olds there are most I'll give you a slightly different take on that and I'll say that that skills have utility man this is something that people don't think about like you're gonna spend years developing a skill set that skill set is going to let you do something and so what do you want to be able to do and that's the thing to me about adaptation about anybody being an entrepreneur or not it's like it's just about skill acquisition the difference between where I was when I didn't know what the fuck I was doing as an entrepreneur and now when I do is I've learned a set of skills that apply themselves in the real world either influencing other people getting them pointed in the same direction creating momentum knowing how to sell knowing how to market thousands of thousand thousand thousand thousand thousand forty two and you're young as fuck as far as forty three March great so listen Royce you understand oh absolutely no but do you like like who gives the fuck why they're asking bro people asking questions like that it's fasting to me I've been really watching this obviously like the amount of people that ask that question she really out of misery loves company has been one of the most fasting things for me to observe I think people also terrified they're gonna miss out on something and it's the only thing you have is today so if you're worried about today and you take care today 10 years from now is going to take care of itself you're fucking love doing right now what do you want to get great out right now you're so right because you're not going to know the alternative there's no weird video game where you pick a path but then you get to rewind it and watch what happened like if you go start go to move to the company said quarters in Afghanistan or go to work to a different friend and sits it out of your move to the big city of New York Royce you're not gonna know how it would have worked out and if it sucks switch it up like that's a thing that drives me nuts here's how I think entrepreneurs need to think of themselves you're standing in a room with a thousand doors your job is to close 999 to them and walk through one people are so paralyzed by all the opportunity cost of actually having to shut a door that they never make a decision make a decision even if it's fucking terrible dude mistakes are the most information rich data stream there is love the standing still is the only problem dude I make decisions so fast it scares the fuck out of everybody around me yeah seriously I'm just making decisions like the end yep and that my friend is while you win you can add value to the show it's a hundred percent true decision by the team debating for days on end and all of us walk out of the room don't bear here's the thing even if you didn't it's better to have a decision and be able to go try this there and fucking the end I love losing this way this is how it all works together I love when I need the wrong decision I'm not gonna do that decision in that circumstance if I recognize it again right yeah I think of entrepreneurs as athletes that don't have a limit to their body so it's like it's one thing if you know you're only gonna be in the NFL for four years because your body can't take the tax right when you're gonna be in it forever it's like yeah if you fuck this play up you make a mistake more science than people realize like you're learning from the nose it's a data point you build on top of it or sure I'm insanely better than I was a 22 which would blow the 22 year old me out of the water because I thought it was the best then experience fucking matters and what the 22 year old named Royce doesn't know is that 42 year old Tom feels exactly the way Royce does right this second because when you're doing what you love and you're in that zone I feel way younger than 99% of the 22 year olds that are unhappy that is for sure fucking true man and just energy level like that's a thing and I know you get a lot of criticism for I get a lot of criticism for how many hours I work and I'm like motherfuckers are you not listening like here's the punchline I work that hard because I'm having fun I don't want to go skiing dick face I do not want to go skiing I do not want to go to a beer garden it is not fun for me to go look at a museum I am not interested in watching Netflix I am not interested that doesn't mean that I think everybody else should do that I think and I've said consistently self-awareness happiness I've said a million fucking times do I believe in hustle yes I do I like work ethic it's controllable do I want that to put you into depression or health scares yeah of course not dick face of course not but don't sit on a pedestal after you fucking worked hard for 15 years and then tell all these kids that they should have work-life balance you fucking elitist dude I'm yeah if that's not be a fucking hypocrite do not be a hypocrite if you make 47,000 I only talk what I live right just like it's why I was really scared when you're like when you transition on that one debate we're having a little bit there and you're like weird cuz I just live the actual opposite like fuck because the number one thing I believe in I hate when people work 11 years under startup work their faces off I watch them grind and then they hit and then they're sitting on money and they're not part of their life and then the advice they're giving isn't what they lived I want to hear for people publicly that made 47,000 a year their whole life and are happy as shit go talk about that we're talking about happiness people are using mental health as a weapon to make themselves look good just like nonprofits you might be tricking the 99% but you're not tricking the 1% partner cool thanks Royce Tom dude was amazing man time to get to ask the question of the day there's only one at least from my perspective what is the impact you want to have in the world because baby chasing fulfillment that's the game motherfucking you keep asking questions will keep answering them but time for speaking awesome everybody who enjoyed this podcast please go back and look at the prior episodes they're loaded I appreciate your attention and thanks for being part of this journey see you later