Where the movement stalled: interview with Jason McLennan

Earlier today, I went LIVE with Jason F. McLennan, the founder of the Living Building Challenge and the Living Future Institute, the Chief Sustainability Officer with Perkins+Will, and a prolific author. We discussed the gap between building an industry and building a movement — and why being right has never been enough to change systems. Watch the full interview on Substack or listen on Spotify (https://open.spotify.com/show/4MGxEQM72DhSvpURHo7IQS?si=e6cef2e629474b12) or Apple Podcasts (https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/changemakers-handbook-with-elena-bondareva/id1828981728).Referenced material:* Living Building Challenge: https://living-future.org/lbc/* International Living Future Institute: https://living-future.org* Living Future Institute of Australia: https://living-future-oceania.org/about-us/* The Third Age of Green Building, published in Transformational Thought (McLennan, 2012).* Zugunruhe: The Inner Migration to Profound Environmental Change (McLennan, 2010). Link: https://store.living-future.org/products/zugunruhe-the-inner-migration-to-profound-environmental-change* LOVE+GREEN BUILDING: You and Me and the Beautiful Planet (McLennan, 2020). Link: https://store.living-future.org/products/love-green-building-you-and-me-and-the-beautiful-planet* The Magic of Imperfection: The ¾ Baked Secret to Unlocking Innovation and Getting More Done (McLennan, 2025). Link: https://www.amazon.com/Magic-Imperfection-Unlocking-Innovation-Getting/dp/B0DQGYDPQM* On the 3 dynamics of transformation: How to build a world-changing movement (Bondareva, 2025): https://changemakershandbook.substack.com/p/how-to-build-a-world-changing-movement?r=1i4aw7* Failing, flailing or forging ahead: diagnosing the green building movement (Bondareva, 2025): https://changemakershandbook.substack.com/p/flailing-failing-or-forging-ahead?r=1i4aw7* Interview with Bill McKibben and Blair Palese: https://changemakershandbook.substack.com/p/if-we-win-too-late-interview-with?r=1i4aw7* Interview with Lindsay Baker: https://changemakershandbook.substack.com/p/troubleshooting-the-green-building?r=1i4aw7Thank you to Joe Karten, Kristin Stout, Guy Raithby-Veall, and all others who joined us live.Changemakers’ Handbook is an audience-supported publication focused on professionalizing changemaking in a post-solutions world. Consider subscribing to join future live conversations and to access all posts. This is a public episode. If you'd like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit changemakershandbook.substack.com/subscribe