This is the Defenders Podcast on TV Podcast Industries, and we're talking about Marvel's Wonder Man, Episode 8, Yooka Valley. Everything you are feeling, that's what true art is made of. Use it. Let your misery drive the bus.
remember the only friend you ever had in this world just betrayed you about to say goodbye for the last time and you had a dream last night that your mother was cooking a hedgehog for supper a hedgehog yes I think so I like to see what that inspires. Welcome back fellow Defenders to TV Podcast Industries. This is the Defenders Podcast and we're chatting about the final episode of Marvel's Wonder Man. Episode 8, Yooka Valley.
I am one of your hosts, John. I'm one of your other hosts, Derek. I'm rounding out this trio in the way that only I can. I am Chris.
Yook, yook, yook. Welcome back. Yooka Valley sounds like a yogget. Well, it does, but we finally get to admit that this was the other thing we got wrong right at the start of the season.
Yucca Valley is the name of the location where the DODC facility is, which is half full. We said at the beginning of the season that it was the raft that they were trying to fill up. So actually, there are two superhuman prisons in the Marvel Cinematic Universe, the raft and this place in Yucca Valley, both not filled with enough prisoners to keep them open. because I think we counted what three people were in the raft and that's a massive facility really expensive to get people to because I have to fly them back and forth by helicopter and here we have this facility in the Yoko Valley apparently it was seen in She this facility was where Emil Blonsky was being held and they used the same outside footage that was filmed for She for this episode So that's why we have, that's why we know it's the same facility.
We like a bit recycling? Yes, we do. Absolutely. But we also don't like getting things wrong like that because it's quite significant.
Well, you heard it first here, fellow defenders. We're so, so wrong, yet so, so right. Well, I didn't hear it first here. I heard it from quite a number of people that commented on it, so my apologies.
This is what happens. You just assume things sometimes. Well, yeah. What you wouldn't have known, it was from dialogue early on in the season, you wouldn't have known until this episode and we don't watch all of the episodes.
It could be the raft. Exactly. It could be. Designation 2.
Right. The waterless raft. That's what it is. The land raft.
Because of the rise of Tiamat from the ocean. The oceans have cleared and now the raft is in a desert. It's been given over to the industry. There you go.
It is Tiamat, isn't it? Don't tell me I've got something else wrong. Probably. No, no, no, you're right.
We're so, so wrong. Yes, so, so right. Fantastic. Right, let's get on.
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Indeed. Yes, some Wonder Woman goodies. It's more likely than Wonder Man goodies, unfortunately, at the moment. Exactly.
Just lots of W. W. W. W.
W. W. W. Silly Marvel products.
We'll make our own Wonder Mouth. Yeah. I just going to spray paint my glasses red It worth it though It worth it though We always have good goodies Absolutely We just unfortunately don announce them very well on the podcast because we always waiting for that cool thing that Marvel will release and that they don I, for one, love good goodies. Good goodies.
Absolutely. Goody, goody, two-shoes. Should we, gentlemen, should we jump into it? Yes.
Let us get into our spoiler-filled discussion of all things Wonder Man Episode 8, Yucca Valley. Derek what are some of the episode details for this final episode well for the finale time our executive producers are Kevin Feige Stephen Broussard, Jonathan Schwartz Louis Desposito, Brad Winderbaum Dustin Down to Cretton and Andrew Guest those two are of course the creators for this series this episode was written by Andrew Guest the showrunner for the show and the episode was directed by Stella McGee who directed episode 7 interestingly there's a really great interview with Andrew Guest about his time writing for the show. He did write the entire series. And like we'd kind of suspected, when he brought on the team of writers, he asked them to add their experiences and their thoughts about the industry into the overarching arc that he'd written for the show.
He's the one that tried to make sure that we didn't see much of the powers of Wonder Man and the powers of Simon Williams in the show. He wanted this to be a story about Hollywood and he was kind of allowed to do what he wanted to do with the show. So great interview over there. on Empire Magazine have it with them.
So go check that out. Good stuff, Andrew. Thank you. Absolutely.
This fantastic show all about these two friends in the Hollywood hills or in the Hollywood industry has been great fun to watch. So, John, do you want to tell us how it all wrapped up with your synopsis for Wonder Man Episode 8, Yucca Valley? Sure. Following the huge explosion he caused on the Wonder Man set, Simon returns to his apartment, assuming that he will be caught by the Department of Damage Control.
He instinctively phones his mum to tell her he loves her. But Trevor Slattery calls him to apologise and says he has a solution. He revives his Mandarin persona and publicly claims responsibility for the explosion. No one ever saw that coming.
Agent Cleary knows that Trevor is just taking the blame for Simon, but goes along with it because the DODC needs more prisoners to justify their expensive Yucca Valley, California prison. Following Trevor arrest director Von Kovac insists they continue filming and tells Simon to use Trevor betrayal for the scene where Wonder Man is betrayed by Barnaby Wonder Man is finished with Joe Pantoliano taking over the role of Barnaby and the film is a huge success. At the premiere, his clearly delighted brother Eric tells Simon he's proud of him. Meanwhile, Janelle tells Simon that he now has his pick of roles for his next project.
With his newfound fame, Simon decides to shadow a DODC guard Chuck Eastman who hates his job. under the guise of making a new film. This gives Simon access to the DODC prison under an alias, just as Agent Cleary discovers that Simon's powers use ionic energy and proposes to his boss that Simon could be an asset or a threat. Simon manages to slip his work-shadowing chuck and finds Trevor's cell, where he uses his powers to break Trevor out of prison and fly away with him.
Aww. into the sunset into the sunset where they can rule the world best friends forever yes friends yes let us get into this episode guys let's get into our top three takes of the episode first up it is take one take one action I can't believe I had to record quiet for both of you so that we can get into our points. But it worked, doesn't it? It does work every time.
It's like men in white coats. I guess we'll do exactly what you say. Yes, exactly. Yes, so our take number one, The Mandarin Returns.
We wondered how the hell we're going to get out of this situation last episode. They wrote themselves into, well, an exploded set, but a real corner with Simon williams exploding on the set of wonder man love how it opens where he's back in his apartment biting his nails down to the quick going oh my god they are going to arrive in my house he's hearing the helicopters overhead which if you've ever been to any major north american city you are surrounded by helicopters at all times that's all he can hear is the helicopters he thinks everything's going to come crashing down and the first thing he does is calls his mom just to tell her that he loves her um and doesn't mention anything about what's going to happen but it has that feeling you know when someone's been arrested and the the um news reporters go and interview a friend or a family and they go oh everything was fine this morning i just talked to him he just talked about you know the weather or just tell me you love me and then nothing happens. So Simon's calling thinking I'm going to be going to prison for the rest of my life because I caused an explosion and everybody's going to find out I'm a superhero. My career is over.
What a great way to start this. And then we find out the flip has happened. Trevor Slattery has taken the fall for this. Yeah, but I do quite like the conceal here with the news saying, you know, Manhunter's underway, they're cornering off streets.
they know who it is but you don't hear the name as you say he sees that the helicopter so i i kind of like that concealer i'm not entirely sure even though you know when you think about it there's there's an obviousness to it but i didn't really think that the the mandarin would return here no and so i wasn't expecting for that to be the way out for for trevor so i kind of like the conceal that you think DODC is coming for Simon. And then, you know, you have that interplay with Simon whilst he's on the phone to Trevor, where you have Trevor sort of pouring out, you know, that Simon has been this true friend and I'm not, you know, he goes, I've bungled a lot of chances in my life. I'm not going to bungle this chance that I had. And he just says, goodbye, Simon.
and then it kind of unfolds so I really like that I absolutely love it it continues that kind of the conceit from last episode where you think you know how the reveal is going to happen you think the big reveal of the big kind of the journalistic case that is broken open will be about Simon but it's about Trevor and then to see this happen too where we think the ODC is coming after Simon and it does end but you're right it makes logical sense the whole story has been foreshadowed by the story of Wonder Man in the film so to see all this the treachery and all of that it just makes so much sense to where it gets to where you have Kovac says Simon to use that kind of betrayal Yes But it not really a betrayal And that the interesting thing Like you do have this you have the Mandarin taking flight again And oh my God, does Trev do that? Yes, he does. Yeah, absolutely. That scene where he's coming out and he like, he's surrounded by the DODC and he's that character through and through so well.
Yeah. It's just, it reminds you of the, literally all the way back to Iron Man 3 I love that he keeps in character there because I do also like the counterpoint of Agent Cleary where he clearly knows that Trevor is not the Mandarin but you know Trevor says to him I've always been the Mandarin and you never saw me coming you know the famous line that he has but equally like again it's just the delivery so well in his video that he sends to the news channels where he's like in the heart of the indoctrination factory I struck back against the latest brainwashing superhero opioid and again it was really good it sounds a little bit like what happened a couple of years ago the culture wars where the right wings in America were trying to take down all media because they were brainwashing people against them yeah well exactly it just has such a great grain of truth behind what he's trying to use just to just to get Simon off the hook great touch here if you just one thing I want to mention as we go through our points here did you notice that every character that we've seen throughout the season has a moment in this episode we see the two kids Esteban and Jaden who were having the argument before you see the two of them watching the speech from from Trevor on their phone from the Mandarin on their phone going oh my god he's back basically another really cool touch the two clips or the three clips that he uses in the video to indicate Hollywood one's the three stooges which is the first one I think it is the second one is from Babies Day 8 starring Joe Pantoliano and the third one is Josh Gad so pretty much every character that we've seen throughout the series makes an appearance in this episode what a cool way to do it really cool way absolutely it was just so neatly done and of course with all of this going on So yes Simon hasn been found out But like I say you know Agent Cleary knows Trevor is making this up You see his kind of resigned look You hear him say well we going to go along with it because we need your arrest basically And so I just kind of like this resignation that Agent Cleary has around us, even though he knows it's just complete fluff. But it is such a great little moment here. Absolutely.
I think as one of our listeners said earlier on the scenes, the most realistic thing about this show is the fact that this is how police departments and agencies for the government work. Sometimes they are about the numbers and they are about the budget. And this is going to satisfy what they have. They've just found a terrorist who's who escaped the law for multiple years and now they're putting him back in prison.
They're going to get their budget for the next year. Right. It doesn't matter. Sam Williams wouldn't have really mattered until he was in Wonder Man.
Nobody knew who he was. He was just a random guy off the street. Right. but the Mandarin matters that's a really important thing that will get headlines and budget so Cleary totally understands why he will accept this but even with that I think it's just you know and I guess it moves us to our second take here but it's that the association with Trevor for Simon and how that will play out which is kind of interesting let's move on to our second take from the episode then take two action it is Wonder Man the movie because Von Kovac never misses a shoot day irrespective of what's happened on the sound stage what's happened to his second lead here he needs to keep the moving forward effectively and he wants Simon here to use your misery to drive the bus and he also has a few other choice uh kind of phrases to say which um yeah i think what's the one that he has it says and you had a dream that your mother cooked a hedgehog for dinner and he just turns to simon like see how to use that which i thought okay very good i i just yeah i think we all know that one weird person who's been in there in our life yeah kovac is that guy absolutely i'm just like oh god i know people like which just makes and then i also have to think am i that person for everyone else no Chris don worry Don worry You not that crazy It okay It okay I zig instead of the size Exactly But yeah, you know, he does have that oddness about him.
And I'm glad they kind of went back to it because it's been such a thing throughout the series that people are kind of worried about what Von Kovac's going to do to the superhero movie. So having a little moment where he's doing something really weird with his actor. But he knows himself. he's got a little smile on his face when he says it he goes I wonder what that will inspire inside he's part of the joke I think he understands what his career is about it's really good I like the fact as well that this is all played out with Simon in kind of a moody cape which gets to be revealed to be the suit you know which is really good for me this whole film part is just the suits the style and the costume that is given so they nail in my opinion they nail the Wonder Man costume it's fantastic here yeah it is just like and Simon looks good in it as well it really does like it just like they you cannot sometimes some of the MCU costumes look a bit meh but not great like I think back to the very first Captain America one which was like now decades a decade ago.
So to be fair, it was, it's a different. Now, they've figured, they've perfected an art of taking what is the standard costumes and really translating them into, I'm about to say real world, but a almost real world kind of look and feel. Yes. So I think they just really, they did nail this kind of Wonder Man film costume.
Absolutely, Chris. I totally agree with you. It's something that we mentioned back at the start of the season that, you know, while this isn't going to be a translation of the comics, they will take inspiration for the show. And I think they said there was four different costumes that they have that have been seen on screen that are actual Wonder Man costumes.
Obviously, the Wonder Man movie that Simon goes to see as a kid. That's the first costume from the comic books. This one's a much more recent costume in the comic books, the one that Simon's wearing here. But there's a couple of other ones that he wears.
there's one that he wears in episode 7 in the Kathy Friedman interview that you see the W on his lapel on his pockets that's another costume from the comics as well It's one of the kids who's outside the premiere of Wonder Man, who's wearing another Wonder Man costume from the comics. So lots of inspiration taken and lots of things that they put in here. But one of the things I absolutely love, the resolution to the sunglasses. We saw last episode that Simon wasn't willing to have anything other than the original sunglasses from Wonder Man or something very like them.
The costume designer actually went out and found the sunglasses and gives them to Simon. The reason why I think it's so important is because we see the opening flashback in the episode. We see Simon talking to his father and his son and it's his father that tells Simon to pursue acting. He tells him he wants to see him up on the big screen.
He feels he's a very talented performer, not like the way parents think their kids are talented, but an actual talented performer. He thinks he can make a go at it. And it's huge. This reveal, I think, is fundamental to Simon's character.
it sets him on this path for the rest of his life his father believed in one thing for him that he would be an actor his father loved one thing which was the wonder man movie he introduced it to simon and simon has spent his entire career trying to get this role as wonder man in a movie that wasn't even being made that wasn't he didn't know he was supposed to be there for it um this role was made for him his father said to him those those sunglasses when i was a kid those were the sunglasses i wanted so that becomes simon's mission when he's on set he wants the sunglasses so he has now achieved his absolute dream not just this role was made for me my father ordained me to play this role in the future and i'm going to do everything i possibly can to live out my father's dream because he lost his father right so um i love that all of that is almost unsaid but it's all there it's all there in the background yeah now those opening bits are really really important and you have you know as you say his dad saying he has faith that he will be a good actor and that he is talented like you say i think what i like here is you know he's got his suit he's got his glasses and we see this opening scene and yes we know the new barnaby in the movie is joey pantoliano but i love the fact that as he's delivering his lines um it pulls back because he's actually talking to Barnaby which is Trevor you know that he's using the method that Von Kovacs asked him to but now Trevor has become a tennis ball on a stick I just thought that was again just that moment It's fantastic. You know, he's delivered it so well, and it just, the camera pulls back, and there's the tennis ball on the stick. Excellent. And then the tennis ball on the stick becomes Joey Pantoliano on the big screen.
And I do wonder, did they act together? I don't know. Just something that I was wondering about was how quickly did Joey Pantoliano come in to take over the role? Did the two of them work together or did they just have Joey Pants come in and do the other side of the conversation without Simon actually being there?
They didn't get on very well when they met at their house. Would Joey Pantoliano want to act opposite him? This version of him in the MCU or in this show, he's a bit of an a-hole, so he just wants the paycheck, right? That's this version here.
So he probably would put up working with Simon just to have this big role, right? Yeah. And he's got to fund his next big property. Yes.
Still good advice. We said that before. It's still quite good advice. It's still really good advice, yeah.
Get on the property ladder, folks, as much as you can. Look, every aspect of this, how they've resolved up to the premiere and beyond, again is just calling back so often to conversations we've had throughout, not even conversations, we've had conversations Simon and Trev have had, or his mum has had, or his dad has had. And it's just, it's not often, like I would say that a show really ties up a lot of the narrative thread. And I think they, with this show, and I know there was some kind of back and forth with the Rider Strike and stuff like that when it was filmed and when it was tweaked and things like that but they really nailed closing off and calling back to the right, in my view calling back on the right aspects of Simon's character so theoretically right now this is a one shot in series like we're not getting Wonder Man 2 Oh, Chris, did you get the lines that reference that in the episode?
I thought it was absolutely hilarious after the premiere that Von Kovac and Simon meet up and are talking on the way out And Von Kovac goes you know I would never ever do a sequel and sammy goes no me neither how could you top that and then von kovac goes but we should meet to talk about how we would if we were to in the future so that is definitely andrew guess going if this successful yeah i've had this conversation as to what i would possibly maybe might do if i do get to do a second season a show that i'm definitely not doing a second season of no but i love that You see Janelle there trying to poach Joey into her talent agency. Again, you have a nice moment with Eric as well, his brother, saying that was really good. I like that Simon has that red carpet moment as well, waving to the fans. And then sort of Janelle coming over and just having that quiet word about, you know, what he's got going here.
Yes, you were right to turn down the Shonda Rhimes show. the whole world is open to you now is what she says so again we joked about it last episode that simon didn't follow this agency who said they were responsible for his career when they had nothing to do with it and now janelle his actual agent is coming to him going you know what you're right we wanted to jump on the first thing you follow what trevor said and now your career could be even bigger you have your choice of whatever it is you want to do next so uh so i think that's kind of cool to to wrap that up that way i also like that little moment with his mom uh in the premiere as well the smile on her face where she realizes how big her son's career is you know i love the the early joke that we saw back in episode three where she thinks everything that's streaming is youtube uh even though it's like a netflix show or a hbo show or a paramount plus show they're all youtube to her uh she doesn't really understand streaming but here she is at a massive hollywood premiere with her son the pride in her face and how happy she is and is just palpable it's great yeah absolutely and yeah to that question from janelle what's what's the next project for um for simon williams um like we are 15 minutes into this episode and i was going how are they going to close this out yeah uh that honestly i was concerned almost because i was like i i paused it at the the end of the premiere just and i was like where are they going because in my head they've wrapped everything exactly like again and i'm like where where what is this? I did for a few minutes. I was going to go back and forth with you guys.
I was going to go, did, are they doing this as a secret, like West Coast Avengers Yeah Are we going to get like I was like is this big reveal going to be like it a secretly a project for doomsday like something And then we have our third and final take Yeah Got to go one last time. Take three. Action. I'm going to miss those.
Yeah, I like a break. We'll bring them. We'll bring them into other things. We'll find out other things.
If they ever do another acting project, we'll do it. But our final third take for the episode is, well, the breakout or Simon's next role. Yeah, exactly. He's doing the research for his next role with Chuck Eastman and his family.
I kind of like this because it seems really genuine. And I like how it develops. Not only where he's meeting him in the bar and he's saying, well, I've got to keep a lid on it. I can't tell you who the director is.
Don't call me by my actual name, all this kind of stuff. um i like the fact that when he meets um chuck's family uh and it's like you know you've got to pretend that uh you're not here and um his wife has done a pot roast for him and i love the two kids where it's like mom's not done a pot roast since grandma's last over yeah we've got company this isn't a normal day yeah no exactly and i like how you know it evolves where then you know chuck's down with his family and simon is seemingly soaking it all up for his next role he's trying to explain to i guess people with regular jobs why yeah you don't think you've got an interesting life but i find so much interest in it and then it kind of goes with chuck telling him about his health issues uh after they've been to um the gp you have the the jogging and all that And then it's like, but at this stage, Chuck's job, you don't know what it is. You know that he doesn't like it. Yes.
And you know that his wife doesn't like it and wants him to get out of it as well. The only reason he went there was because his daughter got sick. He had to get a job. He had to get more money because the medical bills were huge.
And that's the only reason he's there. They do such a great job to hide that, don't they? For as long as possible. Yeah, because Chuck turns around to him and says, you know, you've been asking about coming to visit my job.
I've been able to sort that out for you. I love that we never saw Simon ask about the job until he mentions, Simon, you're always asking about coming to visit my job. So I, hand on my heart, believe this was something about Simon's powers. The way, because they talk about the...
daughter getting sick yeah hospital and all that i was like oh wait like was he experimented on as a kid and it's the same thing happened to chuck's daughter or is there something here is this kind of like a roxon because roxon were in the doorman episode i was like is this a roxon plant and they're all getting sick and powers and they're going to find out that's how their dad died i was you said it right what they show you is so well clipped and kind of curated you really don't know until you get in to the DOD seat until you get into Yoko Valley that you're like oh now we understand but that's not the raft oh sorry yeah that's not the raft I love the fact as well that you know you kind of you hear Simon sort of you know saying about keeping a Liz on it and so on but even when he does get to be able to come along to the job it's that you hear chuck saying well um you know i had to do a little bit of uh fibs around this and fill out a form your name's alfonso yeah and again just really again it's it's keeping the the cover for a bit longer and it also i i like how they are showing that simon is being really careful here for when actually you realize that he's in the heart the belly of the beast in dodc and i kind of like that moment where you just have the the big logo of it as he comes into work yeah and it's really good i mean even the moment where you have agent cleary and his boss on the golf cart and going through the corridors which found very it felt very austin powers and all of this where it's kind of like long corridors with then a station where you need to show an access, even though there's about 200 metres further up that they've been walking down. Yeah. The golf buggy. But I really like Agent Cleary's sort of take in that moment.
Yes. Where you have Chuck and Simon walking past and he keeps following them and then he's kind of interrupted by his boss, but then he's not really listening to his boss. And I thought that was a nice little touch there. It was, wasn't it?
He's trying to... He seen something that he needs to think about It just a little sense of him But he not put it together It like he picked up Spidey Sense from Spider Or Ionic Energy Oh, yes. Absolutely. That was kind of cool.
Yes. So that is Simon's powers in the comics. He has the ability to manipulate Ionic Energy. Yes.
That's the right way to say that. I was questioning myself halfway through the sentence, which is not good. So, yeah, that's the reveal. He has got those powers similar to the comics.
And we see those in full effect when Simon goes in to break out Trevor. Yeah, so good. But one little touch before we get there that I really liked. Did you see what happened with Chuck?
While Simon goes off to Trevor's prison cell, Chuck gets a phone call from his wife, who has just noticed that their bank account has a huge amount of money in it. Way more money than they've ever had in their bank account before. an anonymous donor has sent over money to sort out all their problems so um and it also means that you can leave this job that you hate yeah and i like that at the end of it you see at the top of the stairway where he gets that information the door is open and chuck also has left the building yes which is a nice moment because it is for me i was suddenly getting really protective around Simon saying I really hope they don't know that it's him now Agent Cleary clearly does or will do I think maybe the powers are exceptionally bigger than anything that they would have expected that is true but you get the sense he will get to it eventually he might not know immediately because in the same way that you know he's saying to his boss that well the energy that we identify was ionic um and so um it can't possibly be trevor slattery yes or the mandarin it's simon and you know he's either an asset or a threat here for us yeah and so but yeah no i like the the moment with chuck um again i know it's only short in a sense but with the breakout of trevor um from the cell i just love the fact that simon tells trevor that the filming carried on and he's like well who played me and you get all this wonderful different people you know antonio bandaris uh because i i constantly uh mistaken for mistaken for him I love this idea that this 80 British guy thinks he being confused with the notoriously gorgeous Antonio Banderas I'm not saying Sir Ben Gingsey is not gorgeous, but he's not mistaken for Antonio Banderas often. But yes, he starts out with Pierce Brosnan, at least similar in age, both from this side of the world.
and then goes on to De Niro maybe and I love that Simon avoids telling him who actually played the part. Yes absolutely and it's kind of stressing Simon out as he's in the middle of this breakout as well. I really enjoyed that because immediately the dynamic was back up and running. Look the way they even felt like again the way they show the power set here which is Simon has learned greater control.
Absolutely. Of his powers like because you get that beautiful careening shot as they fly off into the sunset. Do you remember that scene in Man of Steel? Yes.
Very much the very first big flight scene we got when he came out in a suit in the middle of the Antarctic. Is it the snow and the bits of gris and all that kind of bubble up? It really reminded me of that, where you see the ionic energy start and you see the gravel and the rock around Trevor and Simon start to kind of float. It was just a really nice touch.
And again, there's going to be hundreds of questions. Is he a mutant? Is this how they're doing it now? Blah, blah, blah.
Because is Ionic Energy the X Factor? Blah, blah, blah. So many. But I don't really care.
Because right now, what they've done is Thelma and Louise, two characters who have the ability are now out in the open. You can bring them into multiple projects. You can also just give them this almost these two men on the run like just perfect. Give me another season of the two of them going through the back arse of the United States of America on Route 66 playing off each other and trying to get to wherever they need to get to.
Yeah. Because that really why Simon redeeming himself He breaking what turns out to be one of his best friends his only friends yeah if you will um yeah because you even have trevor saying i did all this so that you were clear why are you here and again that will just cement to simon that he is his friend because he doesn't expect him to come he's kind of he's taken armed and born this mantle dare i say it bang kingsley would say you know heavy is the head that was the crown absolutely um he he's taken on that crown yeah here for his friend like at the end of trevor's phone call to him when he was saying that i have a plan here he said this is your opportunity this is your chance take it and bloody enjoy it like that that's what he said to him and here he is turning up a couple of months later to break uh break trevor out of jail uh once again trevor's last week cannot stay in prison even though he's not a super villain of any sort. He's just an actor, but he keeps ending off in prison and keeps ending off getting broken out of prison, which I think is great. One of the things I just wanted to mention as well, I talked earlier on about that connection for the Wonder Man movie and Simon realizing his dream.
I think that also plays in here why he does the breakout, because he has realized his dream. Where does Simon go now? This is the thing that he's wanted since he was 12, 13 years old with his father telling him his path in life. He's achieved his path.
He's made the movie. Von Kovac says to him, we don't make sequels. Simon Williams agreed with him. He's achieved his goal.
He's not just acted in a movie and made lots of money. He's become Wonder Man in the movie that he dreamed of making since he was a kid. And now his best friend and only friend was in prison. And now he's going to use his powers to go off and save him.
So I love that. Another cool thing about this is that the DODC were trying to capture superpowered people to put them in their prison and they were trying to capture simon who could be dangerous simon now is in full control of his powers he could go off and join the avengers now right and they were able to write that off when we had civil war and the sokovia accords they were able to write that off when there was a new threat to the planet right so a new threat to the planet's coming pretty soon we've got this massively powerful uh superhero now or a super villain or super powered person over on the west coast of America. So if a threat happens to land, we have someone there that could be able to take care of it. Yeah, absolutely.
They go east coast and we have Trevor and Simon in New York and you have... All the rest of the adventures there, yeah. Well, you have Wilson Fisk basically using damage control to, or the Department of Damage Control, to label Simon as a threat. And that's how they can pull him in as well.
Yeah, potentially, yeah. Because, again, you could keep them almost street level, if you want to call it that. Because you can just keep them as, the same way we keep Luke Cage, Jessica Jones, and Matt Murdock as street level. although Simon Williams can literally level the street if he wants to use his powers street leveling superhero that's the better way of putting it but it is interesting I think there are opportunities for these characters to return in different ways the first thing I'm thinking about from this whole episode when the Mandarin comes back in is like what's Shang-Chi going to think oh absolutely because I just think that could be really where's my second film I just think it would be really interesting that there is a moment there around the person that they dropped off and made his way back to America is back in prison has done the Mandarin again will Shang-Chi's sister have equally a ruthless streak over him or is it just like well he's play-acting so let him away with it I like this notion that Trevor Slattery's Mandarin is in the MCU yes I do really like that and just don't forget Destin Daniel Cretton is coming out with another movie the only Marvel movie coming out before Doomsday which is Spider-Man Brand New Day and if my Facebook and Twitter and threads, feeds are anything to be believed there are 152 characters in that movie and one of them may be Wonder Man you know one of them may be trevor slattery who's now been in both of uh dessin down and cretins um projects for marvel so there's definitely coming he's also confirmed 100 there is a shang chi 2 coming uh it is in production uh it will follow the two big avengers movies that are coming up or potentially three big avengers movies that are coming up there is a shang chi uh in production Shang-Chi is over in San Francisco.
That may be a place where Trevor goes to hide out with Simon Williams knowing that Shang will help them out You know there a way to write the two of them in there I just not sure if we ever going to get this kind of treatment for the two characters again. I love that it ended off with a super-powered, super Simon Williams. We didn't get the bit in between where he learns how to use his powers. He went from blowing up a soundstage accidentally to using these iconic ionic powers.
You know, we see the crackling as he's lifting Trevor out of this cell. you know there's no longer any confusion as to whether this could possibly be an earthquake going on he's absolutely using superpowers and he's got a distinctive style about him it's really cool so that could appear on the big screen that could appear on the small screen um loads of opportunities hopefully in the future i'd love to see it excellent so any notes uh for the episode from anyone i've got one which i just think is an interesting one um this is the second live action marvel project uh hopefully no spoilers go watch ironheart if you think you're going to be spoiled on this but uh yeah second live action um marvel project where the main characters ended up on the opposite side of the law uh in ironheart um riri williams sold her soul to mephisto and ended the series this time we have simon williams breaking the mandarin out of prison and taking him with them uh you know it was a pretty big thing to break somebody out of prison right that's that's a pretty illegal thing to do. What are they saying in Marvel? Our heroes are all becoming villains.
Yeah, 100%. And we did mention the one thing that we did mention about the comic book character of Simon Williams of Wonder Man was that he was created as an antagonist of the Avengers back in issue 9 of the Avengers. So he was created as a bad guy and eventually became good. But yeah, that's excellent stuff.
Good stuff. Chris, any notes? I just want to call out how beautifully Trev falls back into that kind of Mandarin role with the America, did you miss me? Absolutely.
It's iconic. It is like straight away as you hear the Mandarin come in and deliver that narrative to the camera. You also are reminded of when they did those self-tapes. Absolutely.
because it's supposed to be like that and funny like that. But it is just reminds you instantaneously of Iron Man 3 and how well they did do that pulling the rug from under us in terms of who the Mandarin was Yeah just great Excellent stuff I think with that let us get into our final defense Chris, do you defend this episode of Wonder Man? Of course, 100%. I've talked at length of how I found so much detail and nuance and depth in so many episodes of this show.
show for me it just continues every time i've watched it i found one or two little other bits i don't think marvel knew how much of a hit how much of a cultural kind of sleeper hit and kind of cult hit they're gonna have with this show um to the point like you have sir ben kingsley like of course it was going to potentially have the chance to be amazing. But when you add in all the rest of the cast, when you add in what they've done with it and the narrative, their take on the studio or the Hollywood kind of joke, it's just fantastic. And it ends in a way where they can and should continue on. In my personal opinion.
werewolf by night they gave a chance with that would go on to potentially do something else with the man thing I'm okay if that never really goes anywhere I want Wonder Man or the Wonder Man and Mandarin buddy cop well buddy criminal like season where they're just on the run And I want that because this was some of the best 30-minute TV we've had in the last 12 months. It really is some of the strongest writing. I put it up there with the likes of Pluribus, with the likes of Shrinking and things like that, where the writing is so distinct that it warrants further look. so yeah i completely defend this episode derek what about yourself do you defend this episode this finale of wonder man yeah they absolutely nailed it um i loved that we got to see wonder man made i love that we have the premiere in here i love that we had a moment where I had absolutely no idea what was going on Why is he sitting at a bar talking to a guy He is talking about his next project.
Is he going to play a cowboy in his next project? Is that what it's setting up here? No, he's breaking out Trevor Slattery from prison. He's going to have his full powers.
We're going to see it on screen. Fantastic. This is one of the lowest budgets of Marvel's projects. from what we can see.
It is about two people who are running all over Hollywood. It's filmed in the streets of Hollywood. It's all about the writing and all about those performances from start to end. Yes, there are moments where there are special effects, of course.
It's a Marvel project. You've got to do a little bit of that. But they really did do the best focus on character that we've seen. We've covered comedy stuff in the past, but I will say the one overriding thing about the podcast for this show is we have laughed so much on these episodes on these podcasts just recounting some of the lines that Trevor Slashery has delivered and Simon Williams reaction to what to how he speaks and how they interact with each other it's been fantastic to cover as a podcast and it's been great fun watching the show I love to see these two characters in the future and I hope when they are presented it opens even more people up to come and watch in this show it's been such a surprise of a show I didn't expect it to be as good as it was and it is fantastic so yes absolutely defend this series.
Which just leaves it to you, John. Do you defend this final episode of Wonder Man? I 100% defend this episode of Wonder Man. Who are you rating?
100 out of 100%. I mean, I'd give it five iconic irons out of five. So yes, strangely you stole the rating. Wow!
I didn't know that. Yes, you must have looked over at my paper, my notes. I did not. We're just thinking the same, John.
that's all exactly but yeah no i mean i absolutely adored this i think the whole series as well i mean you know this episode is just like a a really nice ending here like you say you know in in yucca valley what's he doing there what's what's happening how's this working is it something to do with chug eastman's daughter like you said chris you know is it even just other things that he's he's he is actually preparing for the the movie and you're kind of expecting someone else to drop in on him at any given moment um i love that everyone gets their kind of little ending here and i love the fact that trevor um you know puts it on the line for his mate as does his mate all ultimately comes full circle as we said, kind of ends up on the other side of the law here. So yeah, for me, this was absolutely fantastic. Five iconic irons out of five. Brilliant stuff.
I think we need to wet our whistle and go down to the pub for our final question in the Wonder Man pub quiz. Absolutely. Fellow quizzers, fellow defenders, it is question eight of the Wonder Man pub quiz. what song does Alfonso aka Simon pretend he sings at karaoke at the local bar to keep up the guise of a new DODC trainee at the Yucca Valley facility?
Fantastic hopefully an easy question to close out the season. John do you want to get the question one more time? Yes. What song does Alfonso, a.k.a.
Simon, pretend he sings at karaoke at the local bar to keep up the guise of a new DODC trainee at the Yucca Valley facility? Fantastic. That's the final question of eight. Email us to feedback at tvpodcastindustries.com with your answers to all eight questions.
You can also find them over on our website at tvpodcastindustries.com on the pub quiz section. All eight questions are there. Fill them out, send them in to us and you could be able to chance of getting your hands on some goodies from us. Yes, good luck everyone and get those emails in.
Absolutely. Speaking of conversations with our wonderful fellow defenders, we have some feedback in from our fellow defenders. Yes. First up, Heather Wallace had this to say.
Oh, I love this ending so much. I love that Simon is now in control of his powers and how calm and confident he was with Trevor, reassuring him. I thought he would go looking for Trevor and had found a way to get Ian to say thank you and goodbye. but I didn't expect the prison break.
It does make sense though because the department down the road is still watching him and won't let him have a normal life. The conversation that he's either a threat or an asset showed that. So now he's living on his terms with his best friend. In the next movies I'd love Simon and Trevor to have small cameos showing what they're up to and helping out on the sidelines without anyone really else knowing.
The MCU is at its very best when it's about friendship. And my favourite one is and will always be Wongers and Madison. Did I get the Y correct? But Simon and Trevor are now up there.
Thanks Heather I agree Wongers and that from She was one of the best episodes and one of the best characters Madison with a Y not what you think was one of the best little breakouts across a lot of DCU. And you're right. As I said in my kind of wrap-up, I do think like this little buddy criminal kind of relationship between these two characters is perfect. I don't think we'll see them in the movies, but we don't need to.
I think just giving them these little like if you gave me every two years a little slice of what these two have been up to, it will be fantastic. And I think that's where you're going to get something amazing. But let's wait and see. Yeah, absolutely.
I mean, I just really hope to see them again, for sure, on the TV in some form or another, or, you know, in one of the upcoming movies, because, yeah, they nailed it. I mean, I think it's a really good ending, and I totally agree with your thoughts there, Heather, for sure, including on Wonga's and Madison. Absolutely. I'm reading your email.
I still don't know whether the Y is in the correct position. It's not what you think. You said it all about it. Yeah, exactly.
good stuff thanks Heather also on Facebook Salim McKisler says so is Simon a mutant his powers mysteriously revealed themselves at 13 now Salim did send this in as feedback on episode 3 but it came in after we'd recorded the podcast so I thought I'd hold it to the end just because we don't get an explanation as of episode 8 of the show where Simon gets his powers but it is entirely possible that they will call him a mutant. We've had a couple of mutants appear in the MCU now. We had Ms. Marvel in the Ms.
Marvel TV show. We had that little sting of the X-Men music played when they said it's a mutation that she has. It's not to do with the bangles. It's entirely possible that they will say that Simon is a mutant, right?
That could be a way they'll do it. I think they're going to slowly introduce that and they're just not going to say much of this now. They're going to just... Anyone who's power set mysteriously kind of just develops over the from when they were a teen will just be retconned if you want to call it that but it not even a retcon you don need to you can just like in the comic books mutants or anyone who has an x gene and things like that they can just now start to pull a line in which is people with a special gene a mutation can be when they are hit with a snap power suddenly gives you um they become like mutants maybe yeah it's like there's so many options and ways and we don't have that much we don't have that long to wait till we find out.
We're going to be introduced to the idea of mutants in Doomsday. Which is this year. So they are going to start to explain how they want to do this moving forward. Also, they don't need...
I think he is. I think that's how they're going to explain it. But I just don't... I don't think it really matters right now in terms of is he or isn't he i think it's just going to be he is powered yeah i think i think the show was was not interested in telling us the actual answer to that it wasn't going to give us an episode where we went back and found out that he got them um there's so many accidents that cause people's superpowers in the mcu that you know health and safety has gone crazy so yeah so at some point you have to go well he was just born with it you know and maybe it's maybelline uh maybe he was super parrot from when he was born and maybe that's it so i love that they kept this kind of hidden there's little mentions of the fact that explosions happened around him when he was a kid and uh you know that that kind of stuff um i think we said it was uh when he was about eight was the fire in the kitchen um but maybe it was 13 maybe it was a bit later uh it looks teenaged i did wonder if his father had died as a result of something that simon had done that never really came out in the show um he just lost his dad um that's that's also something that happens and there's a real uh a real side of simon i love that it didn't have to be connected to his superpowers either so uh really good but uh interesting thought though and hopefully we'll find out in the future thanks for that salim yes thank you yeah thanks salim uh also on facebook mathematician says simon made his mummy proud received some brotherly love to clear simon's name trevor did the right thing for once joey pants filling in for the lead support the movie was a big hit everything looks great in the world of simon williams then he starts following chuck and his family to research for a new role something doesn add up it turns out simon was repaying the sacrifice Trevor made for him and breaking him out of DODC version of The Raft Really entertaining show It lost its way a bit in the middle for me as I didn't think the doorman episode was necessary even once I understood why it was there.
A quick line from somebody explaining the doorman clause would have got the job done or Simon should have found himself being turned down for roles because of his enhancement to make it more relevant to the story. But once Simon and Trevor were back in focus, it got going again, and all's well that ends well. Four American-invented fortune cookies out of five. We never got to find out what Trevor did with Morris, did we?
Ah, yes, that's the bum-faced dog with wings. The double-bums with wings, yes. Poor little Morris. I think Morris is probably still in the pocket universe.
We hear from Trevor that he was in the pocket universe, came out and flew back to America. So he talks about a girlfriend that he left behind in there. But I think he's talking about Morris. Yeah, I think so.
The needy Morris. So that's probably what happened to him. You know, the doorman clause, I think that was their way out was doing that episode about doorman. Because if you had Simon being turned down for even one role because he has superpowers, he would have been blacklisted from Hollywood.
he wouldn't have been able to go for any other role that you know there's a joke that's made really early on that it's a small town people know all your business very quickly in Hollywood and that's kind of the point that if if he even lets go for a second that he has superpowers someone's going to find out right so um so I think that's the way that they did it but I'm really glad you enjoyed the season and thanks so much mathematician for sending in your feedback for each of the episodes been great hearing your thoughts as you went through the show absolutely great stuff thanks mathematician yes thanks mathematician fantastic and we also have a piece of feedback in on discord from Joe Herbis who watched the series and says good finale to a well done different kind of Marvel show probably my wife's favourite of the Disney era shows surprisingly no big action scenes even the prison break was subdued Simon has definitely been honing his superpowers I wonder how much time has passed since Trevor was taken in this filming post production the successful premiere and follow-up where he became famous and after until he started showing uh shadowing the guy at home uh joey pants reappearing in the movie was great and the first thing trevor asks when simon rescues him is who took over the role which of course simon doesn't want to answer I love it, Joe. Yeah, some great things about this episode. I love the idea that Simon will not tell him that his former rival Joey Pants has taken over the road. Absolutely.
That would kill Trevor. I'm sure he's going to find that soon, but it would kill him if he told him immediately. And yeah, there's definitely enough time for Simon to have learned how to use his superpowers. He's got quite a bit of time with the filming of the movie still going on.
You would think with the entire replacement of a major character in the movie, that there was a couple of months of filming there, then the promotion, you know, editing and the setup of the movie, and then the premiere, and then Simon becoming famous. All of those things. You're talking maybe a year that Trevor has been in prison, right? So we may be somewhere around the time that a certain big Marvel movie is released towards the end of 2026 instead of the stars of 2026.
Yeah. Maybe it's that. I think so. Yeah.
Absolutely. So maybe he's in doomsday, so I'm saying. No, I don't think so. But maybe.
maybe time will tell thanks joe absolutely thanks so much joe that's the end of our feedback for wonder man episode eight but we may get some feedback in before we release the episode uh which myself and john will record uh in this here spot right here and we got a little bit of extra feedback in on wonder man episode eight the finale this time of course from the wonderful coffee and vodka john do you want to take this one sure greetings fellow liberated defenders a Perfect ending to a near perfect season. Never thought I'd be able to apply heartfelt to an MCU project, but here it is. What possessed the execs to delay and then dump this with little to no fanfare in one eight episode pile? Who knows?
Whatever the reason, they're off my Christmas card list. As for the episode itself I sure everyone expected a positive resolution to Simon and Trevor situation but damn Trevor sacrifice and Simon coming to his rescue just about brought a tear to my eye the left one the conversation with his mother restored relations with his brother and simon newfound confidence all added to a fantastic finale finally to end it all with my favorite artist harry nielsen me happy make more five pants trevor's chekov's glasses and dodc you laters out of five peace and take care coffee and vodka p.s mummy's even got a restored island there's no way this goes without a second season right excellent stuff coffee and vodka absolutely hope there is a second season yes to be honest on this one i think it richly deserves it um given just the character portrayals here and between the two leads they're just really really classy and for an MCU, maybe it's elevated that MCU pitch for sure. So I really want to see how it goes, as well as seeing them in other films in the mainstream MCU as well. Absolutely.
So, yeah, bring it on for sure with this. What a great start to the year. We've got Spider-Man, a brand new day coming later on this year, and then we have Doomsday at the end of the year, a couple of other Marvel projects. Daredevil Born Again Season 2, as you know, And, of course, we have Vision Quest as well, the third part of that trilogy that began WandaVision and went into Agatha all along.
So if this is the kind of caliber that they're putting out in the spotlight at the beginning of the year, they've got a lot to live up to for the rest of the year. So very excited to see how Marvel carries off its year this year. For sure. Yeah, absolutely.
Thanks so much for your feedback. Of course, Coffee and Vodka, we're going to leave it there for extra feedback. If you have sent us in feedback and we haven read it here we cover it on our wrap podcast at a couple of weeks time when we do our pub quiz answers and results Thanks so much for sending in your feedback fellow defenders Thanks for that Thanks to everyone for their feedback this season for your discussions, your thoughts, and your quizzical takes, because it has been a wondrous show. Absolutely.
It really has. It's been fantastic. Thank you so much for joining us. We hope you'll join us again for some of our future stuff.
And we are going straight into March with three massive shows. We've got Invincible. we've got daredevil born again and just after that at the start of april we've got the boys three of our biggest shows coming out within five weeks of each other and we also have the potential of a mall show and the the animated series starring our for the former darth mall um all happening at the same time yep we're gonna be busy as no sleep yes yes it's gonna be busy but can't wait to talk about all those shows they're they're really exciting to uh to chat about um my the one i'm probably most looking forward to is daredevil born again though yeah second season it's potential like it's literally that uninvincible like literally they are just right there yeah i definitely want to sort of see daredevil and of course the boys i want to season of the boys final season i want to see you know will they actually be taken off by the trump administration that would be like iconic irons as well do you think the money for that documentary um that was paid was just to get the boys season five on air i think that's what it was we will give you 40 million for a documentary that costs about 200 grand to make if you allow us to put on the final season of the boys yeah who knows we have uncovered a transaction conspiracy excellent well catch up with all of that on tv podcast industries and go over the website tvpodcastindustries subscribe over there and we talk to you then yeah thank you so much and we speak to you in just a few weeks yes yes uh thank you so much for joining us fellow defenders and of course quizzes remember the pub quiz uh we will be announcing uh the winner of our pub quiz and do a full wrap up next time on defenders podcast but until then keep watching keep listening and of course keep defending bye me lovelies bye boy boy boy boy boy Quite on set. And of course now we are on Discord.
And that will be in our show notes later on. I'm kind of thinking they will be down in our where do you see that? And the link will be in our show notes. That's it.
I need it written down. And that will be in our link on our show. And we'll show the link in our show notes later on, of course. Why later on?
It's just in the show notes. Quiet on set. Derek, what are some of the episode details for this final episode? Well, for the finale time, our executive producers are Kevin Feige, Stevan Brut.
Stevan? Stevan! We're Nordic. That's Stevan.
Duh And cut That's a wrap