Betwixt Podcast | Special Release

SPECIAL OFFER | As a listener of the show, you can get 25% off Deb Gregory's new book, Spiritual Wayfinding, by using the code IVPOD25 at checkout at ivpress.com. We hope you enjoy this season!In today’s episode, Deb Gregory is joined by Courtney Ellis to explore the deep connections between nature, our bodies, and our spiritual journeys. Through mindful birding practices and embracing the liminal spaces of change, they reveal how tending to the natural world can help us find peace, resilience, and a sense of divine presence amid life’s transitions.In this episode:· Courtney’s personal experience with birding as a spiritual practice during a health and grief journey· The sensory richness of birding and its embodied connection to prayer and presence· The metaphor of rising above a narrow focus to panoramic vision for emotional and spiritual health· How curiosity and receptivity open us to divine grace in nature and in our lives· The significance of liminal and ‘thin’ spaces where transformation and renewal happen· Practical ways to cultivate stillness, attention, and wonder during seasons of uncertainty· The importance of embracing one’s unique interests as pathways to God's delight and presence· Insights from Courtney’s books Looking Up and Weathering Change on navigating grief and change through the natural worldTimestamps:00:00 - Introduction: Navigating the spiritual life with embodied wisdom00:17 - Partnership with InterVarsity Press and Courtney’s new books01:12 - Exploring the spiritual practice of birding and nature connection01:49 - Courtney’s identity and passions: birds, books, and faith02:47 - The significance of loving what you love in spiritual formation03:06 - Bird walk as mindfulness: letting the birds minister to us03:42 - How health challenges led Courtney outdoors for renewal04:54 - How birding helps us become aware of God's presence05:18 - The stillness of listening and paying attention in prayer06:06 - Using multiple senses to deepen engagement with nature06:40 - The gentle art of waiting, receiving, and centering through birding08:18 - The calming effects of being outdoors and observing birds09:09 - Faith as curiosity, wonder, and receptivity like birding09:34 - Letting go of trying to force faith and delighting in God’s gifts10:28 - The role of joy and delight in discipleship & spiritual growth11:00 - Embracing special interests as sacred pathways to God12:23 - Integrating passions like birding into spiritual practices13:39 - Courtney’s book Looking Up on grief and natural world as balm14:43 - Personal grief journey during her grandfather’s passing16:03 - Scientific evidence of nature’s healing power in grief and depression17:00 - How awe walks foster humility and wonder17:48 - The importance of perspective and humility in seasons of change19:02 - The science behind panoramic vision and stress reduction during birdwatching20:07 - Nature’s attentional resets and echoes of divine renewal21:32 - Courtney’s new book Weathering Change on the lessons of nature for navigating transformation22:13 - How change impacts the body, cognition, and emotion23:02 - Recognizing that both good and difficult changes wear us out24:20 - Learning from animals’ acceptance of change and adaptation25:46 - Cultivating curiosity and gentle engagement with change26:38 - The liminal space as a ‘thin place’ of divine meeting and transformation27:32 - Biblical stories of transition: Hagar, Abram, and the wilderness29:02 - A story of decomposition and the patience of natural processes30:34 - Practical embodied practice: Lent birding challenge31:06 - The power of a quiet 10-minute outdoor or window sit for spiritual renewal32:27 - The gift of attentive presence and hearing God in quiet moments33:08 - Closing reflection: We are seen, loved, and part of this living worldResources & Links: · Looking Up: A Birder's Guide to Hope Through Grief by Courtney Ellis · Weathering Change: Seeking Peace Amid Life's Tough Transitions by Courtney Ellis · Courtney Ellis - Website | Instagram · Spiritual Wayfinding: 33 Walking Meditations for Navigating Life with Embodied Wisdom (Use code IVPOD25 for 25% off)Practice Gift:Join Courtney’s Lent birding challenge: Spend 10 minutes outdoors or by a window each day, observing and listening quietly for birds. Over the season, notice how this simple practice opens your heart to divine whispers amid the unfolding beauty of creation. Remember, all will be well.Soundtrack Credits:Nature Documentary by TunetankOpening Music: Palms Down by Blue Dot Sessions Closing Song: "Roots" by Ryvoli

SPECIAL OFFER | As a listener of the show, you can get 25% off Deb Gregory's new book, Spiritual Wayfinding, by using the code IVPOD25 at checkout at ivpress.com. We hope you enjoy this season!In this ambling conversation, Deb Gregory and Mark Buchanan offer a contemplative exploration of walking as a profound spiritual practice. They delve into how walking can ground us more deeply in humility, wonder, and intimacy with God. This episode invites us to Slow Down, notice the sacred woven into everyday life, and step more fully into the divine rhythm that surrounds us.In this episode:· The deep connection between walking, humility, and embodied spirituality· How walking shifts us from rumination to reflection and insight· The biblical roots of walking as a spiritual act, from Eden to Emmaus· The science behind embodied cognition, resonance, and synchronicity in walking with others· Practical ways to incorporate mindful walking and noticing into daily life· The creative and prophetic power of walking in story and novel writing· How walking can deepen intimacy with God and open us to surprising revelationsReflection & Practice:· Take a familiar route, whether in your neighborhood or a quiet nature trail. Walk slowly, with curiosity. Notice what your senses reveal—textures, sounds, scents—and allow these details to ground you in the present moment.· As you walk, silently or aloud, repeat a gentle mantra like: God’s love, my humility. Let this rhythm settle into your gait.· Pause at a point where something catches your eye—an object, a scene, or even an absence—and offer a quick prayer or reflection. Ask: What is this moment inviting me to notice about God’s presence or my own life?· Conclude with a few moments of silence, sensing the quiet stillness within and around.Remember, walking can be more than a mode of travel. It’s a sacred act—an embodied prayer that awakens us to divine surprises in the ordinary, an invitation to meet God and ourselves anew with every step.Resources & Links: · Spiritual Wayfinding: 33 Walking Meditations for Navigating Life with Embodied Wisdom (Use Code IVPOD25 for 25% off) · Mark Buchanan’s WebsiteTimestamps:00:00 - Welcome to the Betwixt podcast: Embodying wisdom in daily walks00:17 - Introducing Mark Buchanan and the spiritual potential of walking01:42 - Mark shares about his life, love for wild places, and what draws him outdoors02:46 - Sent for a walk meditation, and the invitation to navigate by trees03:38 - The Micah walk: moving into God's love and humility through walking05:15 - How walking cultivates humility amid a culture of speed and achievement06:50 - Walking as a humble act that reminds us of our life limits and dependence on God08:40 - The vulnerability and humility inherent in wandering wilderness landscapes09:56 - Self-reflection, love, and humility as we walk through our brokenness10:43 - The transformative power of walking beyond rumination into contemplation12:22 - Why walking is a core spiritual practice for Christians, rooted in Scripture13:12 - The biblical and historical significance of walking in the story of faith15:07 - Walking as a pathway to hearing from God, exemplified in the Road to Emmaus16:06 - Walking in Sabbath and the deepened awareness of God's presence18:38 - The surprising normality of revelation in walking, not just in sacred spaces19:32 - The science of embodied cognition, resonance, and shared rhythm in walking with others21:43 - Hearing from God in the body, especially through diverse neurodivergent experiences25:27 - The mystic within us: cultivating a spiritual openness and receptivity26:45 - The importance of opening ourselves to all ways God might show up28:16 - The theological and scriptural affirmation that walking is embedded in our faith tradition29:41 - How walking and surprise are woven into biblical encounters with the Divine30:50 - Mark’s new novel and the interplay of walking, story, and courage during dark times35:01 - The creative process of writing and how walking fuels inspiration36:46 - Practical tips: noticing new details on familiar paths as a spiritual exercise37:50 - Prayerful walking: turning everyday observation into ongoing conversation with God38:41 - The sacramental beauty of the ordinary—recognizing divine whispers in daily life39:01 - Closing the walk: an invitation to embody the sacred through simple, mindful stepsSoundtrack Credits:· Nature Documentary by Tunetank· Opening Music: Palms Down by Blue Dot Sessions · Closing Song: "Roots" by Ryvoli

SPECIAL OFFER | As a listener of the show, you can get 25% off Deb Gregory's new book, Spiritual Wayfinding, by using the code IVPOD25 at checkout at ivpress.com. We hope you enjoy this season!Join us in this contemplative conversation with Jesuit Father Brendan McManus, whose life of pilgrimage and spiritual accompaniment reveals the deep ways walking can transform our hearts and minds. Through stories of the Camino de Santiago, discernment in nature, and the embodiment of Ignatian spirituality, Brendan invites us to see walking as a sacred act of opening ourselves to divine love and presence.Main insights from this episode:· How walking in darkness and dawn can heighten awareness of God's light and love· The power of embodied prayer through simple gestures and mantras during walks· Long pilgrimage journeys as transformative spaces for healing grief, fear, and finding clarity· The significance of discernment in action — listening for God's voice amid movement and challenge· Ignatian principles of consolation and desolation as guides for interior awareness· Practical ways to create your own pilgrimage in everyday life and small journeys at home· The importance of silent, intentional walking for deep spiritual listening· Insights on processing grief and trauma through the body's movement and reflective practices· How the ongoing journey continues after the pilgrimage ends, needing space for integration· God's love as the foundation for our discernment, healing, and callingTimestamps: 00:00 - Welcome and introduction to spiritual wayfinding through pilgrimage 02:09 - Fr Brendan shares about walking in the dawn and experiencing God's presence 04:54 - The surprising intimacy of walking in darkness and relying on external light 06:43 - Long walks in Ireland and Ireland’s pilgrim routes as catalyzers for conversion 07:49 - The significance of Camino de Santiago in Fr Brendan’s life and formation 08:36 - A profound experience of prayer and trust amidst hardship on the Camino 10:19 - Fr Brendan’s journey from careers in IT and psychology to Jesuit ministry 12:38 - Reflecting on walking in nature as a source of clarity and listening to God 13:19 - Creating space for silence, reflection, and discerning God's call in pilgrimage 15:00 - How challenges teach us about humility, moderation, and God's voice 17:15 - Embodying discernment in motion, paying attention to interior movements 18:46 - Questions and aspirations pilgrims bring to their journeys 19:46 - The gift of Ignatian spirituality: noticing consolation and desolation 22:49 - The inward and outward half-light as a trail marker for spiritual clarity 26:26 - Fr Brendan’s powerful story of grief and healing through a pilgrimage after brother's suicide 28:42 - The body’s role in metabolizing grief, and the unfolding process after pilgrimage 30:33 - Living the Camino back home: processing long-term transformation 32:53 - Grounding in God's love and foundational trust in the spiritual journey 37:59 - A simple embodied practice: asking for grace in advance before walking 39:42 - Letting nature and prayer unfold naturally, not overcomplicating 41:22 - A gentle invitation to observe interior movements: consolation, desolation 42:21 - Trust in God's gentle companionship in every step of life’s pilgrimage Resources & Links: ⁠Spiritual Wayfinding by Deb Gregory ⁠⁠Father Brendan McManus, SJ⁠⁠ Finding God in the Mess by Brendan McManus SJ ⁠⁠The Camino de Santiago ⁠⁠Camino Companions Ministry ⁠⁠Ignatian Spirituality Resources⁠Feel inspired to step into your own pilgrimage—whether walking in nature, reflecting in silence, or carrying sacred rituals into daily life. Remember, God is always walking with us, inviting us deeper into love, trust, and presence. Meditation music: Documentary Nature by ⁠Viacheslav Starostin⁠Intro Music: Palms Down by BlueDot Sessions Closing Music: ⁠Roots by Ryvoli⁠Disclaimer: The comments, views, and opinions expressed in this podcast are solely those of the host and/or the guests featured on the podcast and do not necessarily reflect the views or positions of InterVarsity Press or InterVarsity Christian Fellowship.As an Amazon Affiliate, this channel earns commissions from qualifying purchases when you use the links above. 

SPECIAL OFFER | As a listener of the show, you can get 25% off Deb Gregory's new book, Spiritual Wayfinding, by using the code IVPOD25 at checkout at ivpress.com. We hope you enjoy this season!A New Season of Betwixt Podcast is on the way! Deb Gregory shares the evolution of her podcast journey—from exploring liminal spaces to embracing embodied practices that deepen our spiritual walk. She invites us into a more grounded, movement-centered approach to recognizing God's presence and discovering ourselves along life's liminal passages. Whether you're a seasoned contemplative or just beginning to tune into your body’s wisdom, this season offers a thoughtfully grounded and nourishing perspective on spiritual transformation.