PODCAST · religion
Christianity After Deconstruction: Cabernet and Pray
by Jeremy Jernigan, Christian Deconstruction Pastor
Cabernet and Pray is a podcast for people who still have questions about Jesus but have complicated feelings about the church and Christianity. Hosted by Jeremy Jernigan (a recovering megachurch pastor), each episode pairs a glass of wine with honest conversations about the Bible, deconstruction, reconstruction, and what it means to explore faith outside of the boundaries of the theological mainstream. If you've ever felt like your doubts disqualified you, or you've wondered whether there's a version of Christianity that can hold your questions without flinching, then you've found your people.This podcast is for you if you find yourself asking questions such as:*How do I make sense of my faith with all of my doubts?*Can I still follow Jesus if I have issues with the church?*Do I have to choose between my questions and my faith?*What do I do with the parts of the Bible that trouble me?*Where do I go when the Christianity I inherited stops working?*Am I allowed to read the Bible
Episodes
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The Word That Isn't in the Book: An Exploration of the Trinity | Ep. 89
The word Trinity appears nowhere in your Bible, and the one verse that claims to state the doctrine in plain words is missing from every early Greek manuscript. So where did the doctrine come from? The path runs through an emperor who had a political problem to solve, two church councils more…
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Grace, Sideways: Faith, Doubt, and Deconstruction (with Jack Reese) | Ep. 88
You probably expect a certain type of person to talk to you about deconstruction and doubt. Perhaps someone young and with a lot of life yet to experience. But Jack Reese is 75, a former senior pastor and a professor for 28 years, and he just wrote Grace Sideways, a book about a lifetime of...
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A Guide for Spiritual Refugees (The Book of Job Pt. 8 with David Gushee) | Ep. 87
I've been on the ash heap with the Book of Job for eight weeks, and this week the author of Job in Exile: A Guide for Spiritual Refugees, Dr. David Gushee, joins me to close it out. Gushee was once America's leading evangelical ethicist, and after he wrote Changing Our Minds, the community he...
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What God Says When You Demand an Answer (The Book of Job Pt. 7) | Ep. 86
For seven weeks, Job has been waiting for God to answer him. In part seven of the Job in Exile series, God finally shows up in the whirlwind and then wants to talk about lions, ravens, mountain goats, and two creatures that sound like they wandered off a monster movie set (yes, we get into…
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Offering Answers the Story Refuses (The Book of Job Pt. 6) | Ep. 85
Just when you'd expect the Book of Job to reach its climax, a new character barges in. Elihu is young, angry, and completely certain he has the explanation everyone else somehow missed. In part six of the Job in Exile series, we see Elihu do the one thing the story keeps refusing to do: he shows…
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Humor for Church Trauma (with Joshua Colburn) | Ep. 84
Joshua Colburn spent twenty years inside a megachurch, and now he's known as the "Original Sinfluencer." In this conversation, he and Jeremy dig into why humor and satire might be the most honest tools survivors of church trauma have, how fear gets used to keep people in line, and the day Joshua...
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Refusing to Lie to Keep the Peace (The Book of Job Pt. 5) | Ep. 83
Job had a way out. All he had to do was apologize for something he never did, agree that God was punishing him, and his whole world would snap back into place. His community, his reputation, his peace, all of it one lie away. Yet he wouldn't say the lie. In part five of our walk through the...
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When Friends Become Accusers (The Book of Job Pt. 4) | Ep. 82
Job's three friends showed up while his life was in ruins, and by the end they had turned into accusers, convinced that a man suffering this much must have earned it. In part four of Job in Exile, I stay in the long, ugly middle of the book, the stretch most people skip, where everyone closest to...
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New Eyes, Old Blind Spots (The Book of Job Pt. 3) | Ep. 81
In part three of our Job in Exile series, we sit with something in the book of Job that most of us were trained to read right past. By chapter three, the patient, pious Job we love to quote is gone. He breaks a week of silence, curses the day of his birth, and starts to notice the suffering of a...
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Mystical Experiences: How to Know If It's Really God (with John Doyle) | Ep. 80
My guest John Doyle has spent forty years paying attention to the moments most of us file away and never mention out loud. The vision. The voice. The thing that grabbed him when no one was there. He holds these stories loosely, with more humility than certainty, which is what makes them worth...
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When Your Friends Go Silent (The Book of Job Pt. 2) | Ep. 79
Job's friends showed up, tore their robes, and then said nothing for seven days straight. It's easy to rush past that on the way to the arguments that come later, where these three men get almost everything wrong. But for one week, before any of that, they get one thing exactly right. They sit…
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From the Penthouse to the Outhouse (The Book of Job Pt. 1) | Ep. 78
Job had it all. Seven thousand sheep, ten children, and the title of richest man in the entire region, right up until the afternoon he sat scraping his skin with a piece of broken pottery on a dung heap outside of town. In part one of a new eight-week series, Jeremy pours a glass of Burgundy and...
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One Nation Over God (with Wes Crawford) | Ep. 77
Every civilization in history put a temple at its center. America was the first to try to build a nation without one, and Wes Crawford argues that we couldn't stand the empty space, so we made the country itself sacred. The church historian and author of One Nation Over God walks through how the...
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The Quantum Gospel (with Keith Giles) | Ep. 76
Keith Giles spent two years digging through gospels that didn't make the cut, the ones buried in a jar in the Egyptian desert in 1945 alongside fifty other texts the church decided not to count. On this episode, Jeremy pours a Bordeaux blend and sits down with the author of the Quantum Gospel...
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The Wild Magic (with Lauren Peiser) | Ep. 75
Lauren Peiser has spent time making wine in Italy, working at a seminary, and writing a Substack that will make you use your imagination. In this episode, she brings a concept called "wild magic," the kind of transformation that can't be packaged into a sermon or a stage talk. She talks about…
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Saints, Sinners, and Clickers (with Matthew Distefano) | Ep. 74
What do saints, sinners, and zombies have in common? In this episode, Jeremy sits down with author Matthew DiStefano to talk about his book on The Last of Us, the video game that somehow became one of the most philosophically serious explorations of what it means to be human. This conversation…
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The Feral Spirit (with Ben Price) | Ep. 73
Ben introduces the idea of the "feral spirit," a way of understanding spiritual encounter that doesn't require institutional scaffolding to be real. He talks about what happens when churches try to manufacture the Spirit's presence instead of simply making space for it, the difference between...
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The Congruent Life (with C.E. Jarnagin) | Ep. 72
What do you do when the very people who introduced you to Jesus can no longer recognize the Jesus your faith has led you to? C.E. Jarnagin is a priest, researcher, and author who's asking that exact question in his new book The Congruent Life, and he brings a rare combination of Anglican liturgy,...
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Finding Beauty in Distinctions (with Bethany Cseh) | Ep. 71
Bethany Cseh is a pastor who spent years standing at a pulpit she wasn't sure she was allowed to occupy, internally justifying each sermon as something other than what it actually was. That tension turned out to be the beginning of a longer, stranger education. In this episode, Bethany joins…
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Church as a Public Library (with Beau Stringer) | Ep. 70
Beau Stringer spent years as a lead pastor in evangelical spaces. He's on the other side of that now, working in adult discipleship at one of the largest United Methodist churches in the country and making the case that mainline churches are the best thing most deconstruction-adjacent Christians...
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Psychological Safety (with Anthony Parrott) | Ep. 69
What does it actually take for a church to be a safe place? Anthony Parrott, co-pastor of Table Church DC, has spent 17 years in ministry and a lifetime accumulating enough theology to know when it stops being honest. In this conversation, he and Jeremy trace a winding path through open and...
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Where Satire Meets Spirituality (with Stuart Delony) | Ep. 68
What happens when a former pastor trades the pulpit for a microphone? In this episode, we sit down with Stuart Delony, host of Snarky Faith and author of The Tribulation Survival Guide, for a conversation that is equal parts hilarious and razor-sharp. Stuart unpacks why fear-based theology is...
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Faith and the Public Square (with Collin Packer) | Ep. 67
This week on Cabernet & Pray, we sit down with Collin Packer for a conversation that feels as honest as it is necessary. Collin shares his journey from fundamentalist pastor to working in the Texas State House, from not voting for 12 years out of theological conviction to wrestling with what it...
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The Mountains Shall Drip Sweet Wine (with John Anthony Dunne) | Ep. 66
What if the Bible’s most familiar wine stories have been quietly misunderstood all along? In this episode of Cabernet and Pray, Jeremy sits down with New Testament scholar John Anthony Dunne, author of The Mountains Shall Drip Sweet Wine, to uncork what Scripture actually says about alcohol. From...
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The Atheist Pentecostal (with Colten Barnaby) | Ep. 65
What happens when someone can no longer believe in God—but still can’t let go of Jesus, Pentecostalism, or the church that formed them? In this episode, Jeremy sits down with Colten Barnaby, who calls himself an “atheist Pentecostal,” to talk honestly about losing faith without losing integrity....
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Cathedrals of Connection (with Matt Mattson) | Ep. 64
What if the most sacred spaces in your life aren’t churches at all, but ordinary moments of shared humanity? In this episode of Cabernet and Pray, Jeremy sits down with author and spiritual guide Matthew G. Matson to explore Cathedrals of Connection—a vision of faith that shifts holiness away…
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Beyond Deconstruction (with James McGrath) | Ep. 63
What comes after deconstruction? In this episode, I sit down with James McGrath to talk about what it looks like to move beyond tearing faith down and begin the slower, braver work of rebuilding it with honesty, humility, and curiosity. We wrestle with Bible scholarship, doubt, certainty, and why...
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The Courage to Differ Graciously (with Brian McLaren) | Ep. 62
What if the real spiritual crisis isn’t disagreement, but how we disagree? In this episode, we explore why certainty has replaced curiosity and why faith so often becomes brittle instead of beautiful. We see what happens when winning arguments matters more than loving people. This isn’t a call to...
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The Root and the Fruit (with David Hayward) | Ep. 61
What if the faith you inherited isn’t the faith you actually want to keep? In this episode, I sit down with David Hayward—yes, the Naked Pastor himself—to talk about the root systems beneath our beliefs, the fruit they produce in real life, and why so many of us feel torn between what we were...
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Between the Pulpit and the Pub (with Gavin Linderman) | Ep. 60
What happens when a pastor decides the real mission field isn’t inside the church walls… but somewhere between the pulpit and the pub? In this episode, Gavin Linderman and I dive into the beautifully messy overlap of Anabaptist theology, creativity, and craft beverages. We talk about churches…
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A Beautiful Year (with Diana Butler Bass) | Ep. 59
What if beauty isn’t something we chase, but something that’s been waiting for us all along? In this episode of Cabernet & Pray, we sit down with author and theologian Diana Butler Bass to talk about what it means to truly live a beautiful year. We discuss how joy, grief, and gratitude can all...
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Separation of Church and Hate (with John Fugelsang) | Ep. 58
What happens when Christianity gets weaponized for political gain? When culture wars hijack the gospel of love? In this episode, we unpack John Fugelsang's book, Separation of Church and Hate, exploring why following Jesus might actually mean breaking up with some forms of Christianity. Pour a...
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Bonhoeffer, Hitler, and Christian Nonviolence: The Fellowship of Guilt | Ep. 57
What if doing the right thing still made you guilty? Dietrich Bonhoeffer believed that following Jesus sometimes meant stepping straight into the mess—into what he called “the fellowship of guilt.” But was he right? In this episode, we grapple with one of the most challenging ethical questions in...
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Hell Bent (with Brian Recker) | Ep. 56
What happens when Christians start rethinking the very idea of hell? In this episode of Cabernet and Pray, we sit down with Brian Recker to ask the questions many of us were told we weren’t allowed to ask. Is hell really eternal conscious torment? What about annihilation? Could universalism...
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Downsizing Evangelicalism (with Michelle Van Loon) | Ep. 55
What if the shrinking of evangelicalism isn’t a crisis to be feared but an opportunity to rediscover something truer, leaner, and more like Jesus? In this episode, I sit down with author Michelle Van Loon to talk about what’s being lost, what’s worth keeping, and why smaller might actually be...
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Learning to Change Your Mind: The Water Had Not Yet Turned into Wine | Ep. 54
What if you’re not the same person you used to be—and that’s exactly the point? In this episode, I explore the strange and beautiful truth that growth requires us to let old versions of ourselves fade away, like water waiting to be turned into wine. From awkward past opinions (yes, I found some…
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Reviving the Golden Rule (with Andrew DeCort) | Ep. 53
In this episode, we dig into why the most famous command in Christianity has become more of a coffee mug slogan than an actual way of life. We’ll explore how we’ve domesticated Jesus’ radical ethic into something polite and toothless… and what it would take to bring its wild, world-flipping power...
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The Myth of Redemptive Violence: The Good News About Evil | Ep. 52
What if evil is never as strong as it seems? In this episode of Cabernet and Pray, we wade into the heaviness of the world (child trafficking, genocide, injustice) and wrestle with what it means to have hope in the face of it. We explore a surprising biblical theme that runs throughout the Psalms...
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Shame-Sex Attraction (with Lucas Wilson) | Ep. 51
What if we told the stories the church has tried to bury? In Episode 51 of Cabernet and Pray, I sit down with Lucas Wilson—academic, editor of Shame-Sex Attraction, and survivor. We dive into the sobering realities of conversion therapy, explore the toxic cocktail of shame and theology, and…
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What Makes a Nation Christian? | Ep. 50
Is America a Christian nation? In this bold milestone episode of Cabernet and Pray, we take a hard look at Jesus’ own criteria for judging nations from Matthew 25. Spoiler: Jesus doesn’t mention Supreme Court rulings, Ten Commandments in schools, or how many evangelicals show up to vote. He talks...
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The Cosmic Christ and Concrete Jesus (with Kevin Sweeney) | Ep. 49
What if there’s more to Jesus than the guy in sandals from Nazareth? In this episode, Kevin Sweeney returns to dive into the deep end of the theological pool—exploring the radical beauty of the Cosmic Christ and the liberating call of the Concrete Jesus. It’s the episode where mysticism meets...
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The Paradox of Tolerance: When Is Exclusion Christlike? | Ep. 48
What if loving your neighbor means confronting someone else? In this episode, Jeremy takes a deep dive into a misunderstood (and rarely discussed) concept in Christian ethics: the paradox of tolerance. What happens when hospitality toward one becomes hostility toward others? And what if Jesus...
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Rethinking and Rebuilding (with Josh Patterson) | Ep. 47
Ever wondered what happens when two theologically curious podcast hosts bring their shows together over a glass of wine? Episode 47 is part divine disruption, part spiritual therapy session, and 100% a good time. Jeremy Jernigan sits down with Josh Patterson of Rethinking Faith to talk about...
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Theology with Imagination (with Brian Zahnd) | Ep. 46
What happens when one of the most provocative theological voices of our time sits down with a glass of wine and reimagines everything? In this episode, Jeremy talks with Brian Zahnd about peacemaking, the prophetic role of the church, why evangelicalism may not recover, and what happens when we...
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Curiosity and Poor Eyesight | Ep. 45
What if the only thing separating you from deeper faith… is your doubt? In this episode, we uncork the connection between spiritual curiosity and our inability to see clearly — and why that’s not a flaw, but a feature of real theology. Jesus doesn’t demand certainty. He invites wonder. Click here...
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Queer and Christian (with Brandan Robertson) | Ep. 44
This week, we’re uncorking a bold conversation that challenges assumptions, celebrates authenticity, and dives into the complexity of faith and identity. What does it mean to be queer and Christian? You’ll hear personal journeys, tough questions, unexpected grace, and the beauty of holding space...
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#43: What's the Deal with Hell?
Are there different ways to understand hell in Christianity? In this thought-provoking episode, Jeremy tackles one of the most challenging theological concepts that many struggle with. If you've ever questioned traditional teachings about eternal punishment or wondered if there are other...
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#42: The Spirituality of Wine (with Gisela Kreglinger)
What if drinking wine was more than just a pleasure—it was a spiritual practice? In this episode, we sit down with theologian and wine expert Gisela Kreglinger to explore the deep connections between wine, faith, and community. Growing up in a German winery, Gisela brings a unique perspective on...
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#41: Why Christianity is Unfair
Is karma real? Or does Jesus operate in a way that turns our sense of fairness upside down? In this episode, we dive into one of Jesus’ most radical parables from Matthew 20, exploring why fairness might not be the point—and why that’s actually good news. Grab a glass of wine and join us for a...
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#40: The New Evangelicals (with Tim Whitaker)
Join Jeremy and Tim Whitaker, founder of The New Evangelicals, for an unfiltered and entertaining conversation tackling tough topics in faith, church culture, and beyond—all while sipping on wine. Whether you're wrestling with your faith, navigating church hurt, or just curious about new...
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ABOUT THIS SHOW
Cabernet and Pray is a podcast for people who still have questions about Jesus but have complicated feelings about the church and Christianity. Hosted by Jeremy Jernigan (a recovering megachurch pastor), each episode pairs a glass of wine with honest conversations about the Bible, deconstruction, reconstruction, and what it means to explore faith outside of the boundaries of the theological mainstream. If you've ever felt like your doubts disqualified you, or you've wondered whether there's a version of Christianity that can hold your questions without flinching, then you've found your people.This podcast is for you if you find yourself asking questions such as:*How do I make sense of my faith with all of my doubts?*Can I still follow Jesus if I have issues with the church?*Do I have to choose between my questions and my faith?*What do I do with the parts of the Bible that trouble me?*Where do I go when the Christianity I inherited stops working?*Am I allowed to read the Bible
HOSTED BY
Jeremy Jernigan, Christian Deconstruction Pastor
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Frequently Asked Questions
How many episodes does Christianity After Deconstruction: Cabernet and Pray have?
Christianity After Deconstruction: Cabernet and Pray currently has 88 episodes available on PodParley. New episodes are automatically indexed when they're published to the podcast feed.
What is Christianity After Deconstruction: Cabernet and Pray about?
Cabernet and Pray is a podcast for people who still have questions about Jesus but have complicated feelings about the church and Christianity. Hosted by Jeremy Jernigan (a recovering megachurch pastor), each episode pairs a glass of wine with honest conversations about the Bible, deconstruction,...
How often does Christianity After Deconstruction: Cabernet and Pray release new episodes?
Christianity After Deconstruction: Cabernet and Pray has 88 episodes. Check the episode list to see recent publication dates and frequency.
Where can I listen to Christianity After Deconstruction: Cabernet and Pray?
You can listen to Christianity After Deconstruction: Cabernet and Pray on PodParley by clicking any episode. We provide an embedded audio player for direct listening, and you can also subscribe via your preferred podcast app using the RSS feed.
Who hosts Christianity After Deconstruction: Cabernet and Pray?
Christianity After Deconstruction: Cabernet and Pray is created and hosted by Jeremy Jernigan, Christian Deconstruction Pastor.
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