PODCAST · arts
Complementary
by Anthony Hobday, Katie Langerman
A podcast about the principles and practices of interface design.
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79
79: Text editing with Michael Aufreiter
Katie and Anthony are joined by Michael Aufreiter, an expert in all things text editing. It turns out that text editing is quite a complex interaction, enough so that we could have gone on another hour discussing it. Check out Michael's work:https://svedit.devhttps://editable.website Hosts:Anthony Hobday, Generalist Product Designer: https://twitter.com/hobdaydesignKatie Langerman, Design Technologist: https://twitter.com/KatieLangerman
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78
78: The career episode
After years of intentionally not discussing career advice, today's the day.Hosts:Anthony Hobday, Generalist Product Designer: https://twitter.com/hobdaydesignKatie Langerman, Design Technologist: https://twitter.com/KatieLangerman
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77
77: Making an interface feel premium
Anthony and Katie discuss some interface quality of life improvements. You'll have to go find Anthony's blog post on the topic yourself. We believe in you.Hosts:Anthony Hobday, Generalist Product Designer: https://twitter.com/hobdaydesignKatie Langerman, Design Technologist: https://twitter.com/KatieLangerman
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76
76: Visual design with Laura Sinisterra
Anthony and Katie are joined by designer Laura Sinisterra, a visual designer with a unique mathematical, geometric style. We chat about her visual style, how she might define it and what inspired it.Check out Laura's website: https://laurasinisterra.com/Follow on X: https://x.com/Lauracsc_Links mentioned:https://www.are.na/https://x.com/visakanvHosts:Anthony Hobday, Generalist Product Designer: https://twitter.com/hobdaydesignKatie Langerman, Design Technologist: https://twitter.com/KatieLangerman
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75
75: The AI rant episode
Anthony and Katie allow themselves a cheeky little rant about the topic on everyone's mind, AI.Hosts:Anthony Hobday, Generalist Product Designer: https://twitter.com/hobdaydesignKatie Langerman, Design Technologist: https://twitter.com/KatieLangerman
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74
74: How many icons is too many
Anthony and Katie discuss Nikita Prokopov's "It's hard to justify Tahoe icons". Article link: https://tonsky.me/blog/tahoe-icons/Hosts:Anthony Hobday, Generalist Product Designer: https://twitter.com/hobdaydesignKatie Langerman, Design Technologist: https://twitter.com/KatieLangerman
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73
73: Desktop UX
Anthony and Katie discuss Scott Jenson's talk titled "Are we stuck with the same desktop UX forever" Video link: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1fZTOjd_bOQHosts:Anthony Hobday, Generalist Product Designer: https://twitter.com/hobdaydesignKatie Langerman, Design Technologist: https://twitter.com/KatieLangerman
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72
72: Famous design phrases
Anthony and Katie each bring some famous design phrases to discuss. Hosts:Anthony Hobday, Generalist Product Designer: https://twitter.com/hobdaydesignKatie Langerman, Design Technologist: https://twitter.com/KatieLangerman
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71
71: The materials interfaces are made of
Sometimes interfaces mimic physical materials like paper or metal. Anthony and Katie discuss why this might be, what kinds of materials seem most common and how this has shifted over time.Hosts:Anthony Hobday, Generalist Product Designer: https://twitter.com/hobdaydesignKatie Langerman, Design Technologist: https://twitter.com/KatieLangerman
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70
70: Things that are easy vs. hard to design
Anthony and Katie compare things that feel easy to design vs. hard.Hosts:Anthony Hobday, Generalist Product Designer: https://twitter.com/hobdaydesignKatie Langerman, Systems Designer: https://twitter.com/KatieLangerman
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69
69: Practical Uses of AI for Designers
Anthony and Katie share ways to use AI in your design practice that don't involve code or generative images.Hosts:Anthony Hobday, Generalist Product Designer: https://twitter.com/hobdaydesignKatie Langerman, Systems Designer: https://twitter.com/KatieLangerman
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68
68: Interface Design Assets (typefaces, imagery, icons)
Anthony and Katie share some of their favorite design assets.Links mentioned:https://blush.design/https://nucleoapp.com/https://tabler.io/iconshttps://feathericons.com/https://thenounproject.com/https://www.streamlinehq.com/https://klim.co.nz/https://wakamaifondue.com/https://simplebits.shop/collections/fontshttps://open-props.style/https://fontawesome.com/https://phosphoricons.com/https://connary.com/fonts/Hosts:Anthony Hobday, Generalist Product Designer: https://twitter.com/hobdaydesignKatie Langerman, Systems Designer: https://twitter.com/KatieLangerman
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67
67: Vector vs. Code Based Design Tooling with Andreas Møller
Anthony and Katie are joined by Andreas Møller, co-founder of Nordcraft. Nordcraft aims to bring design and development closer together, and as you can imagine Andreas has a unique perspective on design tools. What happens to "hand-off" when designers can get their ideas 90% there?Find Andreas on BlueskyHosts:Anthony Hobday, Generalist Product Designer: https://twitter.com/hobdaydesignKatie Langerman, Systems Designer: https://twitter.com/KatieLangerman
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66
66: Interface Design Then & Now with Microsoft's First Interface Designer Virginia Howlett
Anthony and Katie are joined by Virginia Howlett, author of Visual Interface Design for Windows and one of the first interface designers at Microsoft. Virginia is also an artist, and her paintings can be found on her website https://www.virginiahowlett.com/. We discuss what it was like being a designer 30 years ago (spoiler: some things haven't changed!), the connection between graphic design and interface design, and what it was like pioneering design decisions that we take for granted today.Hosts:Anthony Hobday, Generalist Product Designer: https://twitter.com/hobdaydesignKatie Langerman, Systems Designer: https://twitter.com/KatieLangerman
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65
65: Listener Q&A
Anthony and Katie answer a few listener questions.Questions asked: https://x.com/hobdaydesign/status/1961014039368110395Hosts:Anthony Hobday, Generalist Product Designer: https://twitter.com/hobdaydesignKatie Langerman, Systems Designer: https://twitter.com/KatieLangerman
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64
64: Big vs Small Software
Anthony and Katie attempt to define big vs. small software, and then compare the two.Hosts:Anthony Hobday, Generalist Product Designer: https://twitter.com/hobdaydesignKatie Langerman, Systems Designer: https://twitter.com/KatieLangerman
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63
63: Being Intentional About Quality with Lance Willett
Anthony and Katie are joined by Lance Willett, Chief Quality Officer at Automattic. There's a lot packed into this hour long conversation, but a few things we touch on are:- Measuring and championing quality in distributed teams- Navigating feedback culture and team dynamics- Balancing craft, context, and care in product developmentHardik Pandya tweet Anthony mentioned: https://x.com/hvpandya/status/1949733270897188935Hosts:Anthony Hobday, Generalist Product Designer: https://twitter.com/hobdaydesignKatie Langerman, Systems Designer: https://twitter.com/KatieLangerman
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62
62: MacOS Through the Ages
Anthony and Katie discuss the elements of previous MacOS versions that stand out most.Inspired by: https://aresluna.org/frame-of-preferenceHosts:Anthony Hobday, Generalist Product Designer: https://twitter.com/hobdaydesignKatie Langerman, Systems Designer: https://twitter.com/KatieLangerman
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61
61: Liquid Glass
Anthony and Katie chat about Apple's Liquid Glass.Hosts:Anthony Hobday, Generalist Product Designer: https://twitter.com/hobdaydesignKatie Langerman, Systems Designer: https://twitter.com/KatieLangerman
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60
60: Designing Tools to Support Creativity with Matt Beaudouin-Lafon
Anthony and Katie are joined by HCI PhD candidate Matt Beaudouin-Lafon at UCSD, and discuss how HCI research intersects with industry product design. Links mentioned:Matt's work on Color FieldInk & SwitchTextoshopCreativity Support Tools paper from Ben ShneidermanHosts:Anthony Hobday, Generalist Product Designer: https://twitter.com/hobdaydesignKatie Langerman, Systems Designer: https://twitter.com/KatieLangerman
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59
59: Material 3 Expressive
Anthony and Katie chat about Material 3 Expressive.Hosts:Anthony Hobday, Generalist Product Designer: https://twitter.com/hobdaydesignKatie Langerman, Systems Designer: https://twitter.com/KatieLangerman
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58
58: Thoughts on Config 2025
Anthony and Katie chat about Config 2025.Talks mentioned:Writing is designingThe maximalist theory of minimalismHosts:Anthony Hobday, Generalist Product Designer: https://twitter.com/hobdaydesignKatie Langerman, Systems Designer: https://twitter.com/KatieLangerman
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57
57: The Gap Between Design and Execution with Alex Krasikov
Anthony and Katie are joined by design engineer Alex Krasikov to discuss .. you guessed it, design engineering.Alex Krasikov: https://x.com/alex_krasikauHosts:Anthony Hobday, Generalist Product Designer: https://twitter.com/hobdaydesignKatie Langerman, Systems Designer: https://twitter.com/KatieLangerman
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56
56: Navigation
Anthony and Katie discuss navigation patterns.Hosts:Anthony Hobday, Generalist Product Designer: https://twitter.com/hobdaydesignKatie Langerman, Systems Designer: https://twitter.com/KatieLangerman
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55
55: Design is Decision Making
Anthony and Katie define the process of decision making as it relates to design.Anthony's post: https://x.com/hobdaydesign/status/1904449738084094138Hosts:Anthony Hobday, Generalist Product Designer: https://twitter.com/hobdaydesignKatie Langerman, Systems Designer: https://twitter.com/KatieLangerman
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54
54: Design vs. Development
Anthony and Katie discuss some differences and similarities between design and development. Hosts:Anthony Hobday, Generalist Product Designer: https://twitter.com/hobdaydesignKatie Langerman, Systems Designer: https://twitter.com/KatieLangerman
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53
53: Deep Dive on the Conceptual Model Layer with Jamie Mill
Anthony and Katie are joined by Jamie Mill to discuss his post on the elements of product design. Jamie Mill: https://jamiemill.com/Hosts:Anthony Hobday, Generalist Product Designer: https://twitter.com/hobdaydesignKatie Langerman, Systems Designer: https://twitter.com/KatieLangerman
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52
52: Visual Design Techniques We Love
Anthony and Katie each pick their top 3 most loved design techniques in the spirit of Valentine's Day.Hosts:Anthony Hobday, Generalist Product Designer: https://twitter.com/hobdaydesignKatie Langerman, Systems Designer: https://twitter.com/KatieLangerman
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51
51: Thoughts on the book Do Design: Why beauty is the key to everything by Alan Moore
Anthony and Katie discuss the book Do Design: Why Beauty is the Key to Everything by Alan Moore. Do Design: https://thedobook.co/products/do-design-why-beauty-is-key-to-everything?Format=Paperback Anthony's list of short design books: https://www.anthonyhobday.com/blog/20230101.html Dan Luu: Willingness to look stupid Hosts: Anthony Hobday, Generalist Product Designer: https://twitter.com/hobdaydesign Katie Langerman, Systems Designer: https://twitter.com/KatieLangerman
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50
50: Starting from Scratch vs. Improving Existing Design
Anthony and Katie discuss what it takes to start designing something from scratch compared to working on an existing product, and the upsides/downsides of both. Hosts: Anthony Hobday, Generalist Product Designer: https://twitter.com/hobdaydesign Katie Langerman, Systems Designer: https://twitter.com/KatieLangerman
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49
49: Design Folklore with Guy Segal
Katie, Anthony and special guest Guy discuss design folklore: what it is, where it might come from, and how to best use it in your design practices. Guy Segal: https://www.linkedin.com/in/guysegal Hosts: Anthony Hobday, Generalist Product Designer: https://twitter.com/hobdaydesign Katie Langerman, Systems Designer: https://twitter.com/KatieLangerman
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48
48: Ghosts of Software Past, Present and Future
Anthony and Katie bring on the holiday vibes by discussing the past, present and future of software design. Bah humbug! New design systems podcast Katie mentioned: On Theme Hosts: Anthony Hobday, Generalist Product Designer: https://twitter.com/hobdaydesign Katie Langerman, Systems Designer: https://twitter.com/KatieLangerman
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47
47: People We Admire
Designers and developers that have influenced us. The folks we mentioned: Stephanie Eckles Andy Bell Brad Frost Elizabeth Goodspeed Frank Chimero David Pye Hosts: Anthony Hobday, Generalist Product Designer: https://twitter.com/hobdaydesign Katie Langerman, Systems Designer: https://twitter.com/KatieLangerman
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46
46: Design for Developers with Nate Butler
What does it really mean to design for developers? Should you cater to power users or beginners? Anthony, Katie and Nate discuss this (and more) with lots of spicy takes and speculation. Nate Butler: https://nate.cv/ Hosts: Anthony Hobday, Generalist Product Designer: https://twitter.com/hobdaydesign Katie Langerman, Systems Designer: https://twitter.com/KatieLangerman
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45
45: Constraints
What are the different kinds of constraints and how do they impact design? Anthony and Katie break it down into several types of constraints including: arbitrary, technical, principled, and convenient. Hosts: Anthony Hobday, Generalist Product Designer: https://twitter.com/hobdaydesign Katie Langerman, Systems Designer: https://twitter.com/KatieLangerman
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44
44: How to be a more strategic designer with Jared Spool
Jared Spool joins Anthony and Katie to discuss what it means to be a strategic designer. We cover what strategy means, different leadership styles, and the difference between outcomes vs outputs. Find Jared Spool on Linkedin: https://www.linkedin.com/in/jmspool/ Hosts: Anthony Hobday, Generalist Product Designer: https://twitter.com/hobdaydesign Katie Langerman, Systems Designer: https://twitter.com/KatieLangerman
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43
43: Design for Customization
What's the difference between customization and personalization in interface design? Anthony and Katie discuss this along with the benefits/downsides of designing for customization. Hosts: Anthony Hobday, Generalist Product Designer: https://twitter.com/hobdaydesign Katie Langerman, Systems Designer: https://twitter.com/KatieLangerman
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42
42: Performative Good Design
It's a ranty one folks. What is performative design, and why does it exist? Hosts: Anthony Hobday, Generalist Product Designer: https://twitter.com/hobdaydesign Katie Langerman, Systems Designer: https://twitter.com/KatieLangerman
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41
41: Elegance vs. Extravagance
Anthony shares a quote to define elegance vs. extravagance as "do a lot with a little vs. a lot with a lot". Katie and Anthony discuss how this relates to interface design and the impact it has on interaction design and product longevity. Hosts: Anthony Hobday, Generalist Product Designer: https://twitter.com/hobdaydesign Katie Langerman, Systems Designer: https://twitter.com/KatieLangerman
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40
40: Should Designers Code?
How might designers learning how to code impact interface design? Enjoy this extremely reasonable conversation between Katie and Anthony. Hosts: Anthony Hobday, Generalist Product Designer: https://twitter.com/hobdaydesign Katie Langerman, Systems Designer: https://twitter.com/KatieLangerman
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39
39: Possible Futures for AI in Interface Design with Maggie Appleton
Anthony, Katie and special guest Maggie Appleton speculate about how AI could impact interface design in the future. The five possible futures we discussed: AI replaces designers and developers completely AI produces a rough draft, a designer “tidies it up” AI builds the interface out of supplied components and a description of how the interface works AI produces content/components on demand, designers change it to suit, then put the interface together Designers ask AI focused questions to get inspiration You can find Maggie on Twitter or on the web at https://maggieappleton.com/ Hosts: Anthony Hobday, Generalist Product Designer: https://twitter.com/hobdaydesign Katie Langerman, Systems Designer: https://twitter.com/KatieLangerman
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38
38: Visual Design in Design Systems with Jeremy Elder
Anthony, Katie and special guest Jeremy Elder chat about the visual design aspect of design systems. Find Jeremy on Twitter: https://twitter.com/jeremyelder GitLab's papercuts site: https://papercuts.gitlab.com/ Hosts: Anthony Hobday, Generalist Product Designer: https://twitter.com/hobdaydesign Katie Langerman, Systems Designer: https://twitter.com/KatieLangerman
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37
37: Good Interface Design Habits
Anthony and Katie share their top habits for good interface design. Design inspiration site Anthony mentioned: https://mobbin.com/ Hosts: Anthony Hobday, Generalist Product Designer: https://twitter.com/hobdaydesign Katie Langerman, Systems Designer: https://twitter.com/KatieLangerman
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36
36: Interfaces are Affected by What People Care About
Anthony and Katie chat about the people behind interfaces, and how competing priorities impact the end result of interface design. Hosts: Anthony Hobday, Generalist Product Designer: https://twitter.com/hobdaydesign Katie Langerman, Systems Designer: https://twitter.com/KatieLangerman
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35
35: Form Design with Adam Silver
Anthony, Katie and special guest Adam Silver discuss all things form design. We try to define form design (for Anthony's sake), and discuss things like toggle switches, good/bad form experiences, and border color contrast. Find Adam on Twitter: https://twitter.com/adamsilverhq Adam's book on form design: https://formdesignpatterns.com/ Hosts: Anthony Hobday, Generalist Product Designer: https://twitter.com/hobdaydesign Katie Langerman, Systems Designer: https://twitter.com/KatieLangerman
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34
34: How Design Systems Impact Interface Design with Donnie D'Amato
This week we're joined by Donnie D'Amato to discuss how design systems have impacted interface design. Hosts: Anthony Hobday, Generalist Product Designer: https://twitter.com/hobdaydesign Katie Langerman, Systems Designer: https://twitter.com/KatieLangerman
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33
33: How Interfaces Evolve Over Time
Anthony and Katie discuss how interface design evolves over time. Hosts: Anthony Hobday, Generalist Product Designer: https://twitter.com/hobdaydesign Katie Langerman, Systems Designer: https://twitter.com/KatieLangerman
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32
32: Thoughts on "Just Enough Design" by Taku Satoh
Anthony and Katie discuss "Just Enough Design" by Taku Satoh. Spoiler: we like it. Anthony's recommended short design books: https://www.anthonyhobday.com/blog/20230101.html Hosts: Anthony Hobday, Generalist Product Designer: https://twitter.com/hobdaydesign Katie Langerman, Systems Designer: https://twitter.com/KatieLangerman
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31
31: Interface Personality vs Usability
Anthony and Katie discuss how to safely add personality to an interface without sacrificing usability. Hosts: Anthony Hobday, Generalist Product Designer: https://twitter.com/hobdaydesign Katie Langerman, Systems Designer: https://twitter.com/KatieLangerman
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30
30: How Important is Feedback?
Anthony and Katie discuss design feedback: how important it is, bad vs. good feedback, and the difference between harsh and direct feedback. Hosts: Anthony Hobday, Generalist Product Designer: https://twitter.com/hobdaydesign Katie Langerman, Systems Designer: https://twitter.com/KatieLangerman
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