Future Christian

In this special episode, Martha Tatarnic interviews co-host Loren Richmond Jr. about his new book, The Church as Community Hub: Sharing Spaces to Help Neighborhoods Thrive. Loren shares what inspired the book—including a visit to a small Canadian church serving migrant farm workers—and how years of conversations on Future Christian helped shape his thinking. At the heart of the book is a simple question: What if church buildings were understood not simply as places Christians gather, but as resources entrusted to congregations for the flourishing of their neighborhoods? Together they explore: What inspired The Church as Community Hub How Future Christian conversations shaped the book Why mission—not institutional survival—must come first Starting small and experimenting rather than looking for a magic bullet Why reimagining church property can be an act of hope What it means to equip congregations not necessarily to save the church, but to be the church Loren Richmond Jr. is a pastor, chaplain, and nonprofit leader. He is the director of development and programming for Green Room Leaders, as well as a cofounder and cohost of the Future Christian Podcast. His Substack is The Church Nerd. Richmond has worked in five Christian traditions, and he holds an MDiv from Phillips Seminary and an MBA in Nonprofit Management from Hope International University. He lives in Thornton, Colorado. Mentioned Resources: 📖 His Book: The Church as Community Hub 🌐 His Website: lorenrichmondjr.com 📱 Socials: @lorenrichmondjr 🎧 Episodes Referenced: Chad Brooks 🎧 Episodes Referenced: Michael Graham 🎧 Episodes Referenced: John Cleghorn 🎧 Episodes Referenced: Grace Pomroy 🎧 Episodes Referenced: Bob Jaeger 🎧 Episodes Referenced: Mike Cosper    Connect with Future Christian: 📱 Future Christian Instagram: futurechristianpod 📱 Martha's Instagram: martha_tatarnic 📱 Loren's Instagram: lorenrichmondjr 🟧 Future Christian Substack: https://futurechristian.substack.com/   Supporting Sponsors: Martha's Book! Anne Boleyn: Reputation, Revolution, Religion, and the Queen Who Changed History - Available now! Loren's New Book: The Church as Community Hub: Sharing Spaces to Help Neighborhoods Thrive - Available for pre-order! Free Range Priest Helping clergy and congregations reimagine ministry in the digital age.   Future Christian Team: Loren Richmond Jr. – Host & Executive Producer Martha Tatarnic – Co-Host Dennis Sanders – Producer   SEO / Keywords Loren Richmond Jr., The Church as Community Hub, church as community hub, church buildings, church property, church building reuse, reimagining church buildings, underused church buildings, church property ministry, church and community development, community hub model, neighborhood ministry, community engagement, church leadership, congregational leadership, church renewal, church decline, declining churches, future of the church, church innovation, missional church, church mission, adaptive ministry, church partnerships, sacred space, noncommercial community space, stewardship of church property, church buildings and mission, neighborhood flourishing, mainline Christianity, Martha Tatarnic, Future Christian Podcast

What happens when the wounds we've experienced begin to define who we are? Dr. Derwin Gray—former NFL player, founding pastor of Transformation Church, and author of It’s Time to Heal—joins Loren to talk about trauma, healing, identity, and the transforming power of the gospel. Drawing from his own experiences of childhood trauma, Gray describes how he learned to identify the lies shaping his life and replace them with a new identity rooted in Christ. Gray argues that churches must take abuse, religious trauma, and destructive leadership seriously while also distinguishing those experiences from the ordinary conflict and friction that inevitably occur within Christian community. Healing requires honesty about what happened—but our wounds do not have to become our identity. Together they explore: Why Christianity isn't simply about “sin management” Trauma, neuroplasticity, and what Gray calls “Christ behavioral therapy” Why woundedness can become an identity The difference between serious church abuse and ordinary church conflict Forgiveness, reconciliation, and healthy Christian community Why no political party should become synonymous with Christianity And, naturally, whether Russell Wilson belongs in the Hall of Fame—and Derwin's surprisingly optimistic prediction for the Carolina Panthers. Dr. Derwin L. Gray is the co-founding and lead pastor of Transformation Church (TC), one of the fastest growing churches in America. TC is a multiethnic, multigenerational, mission-shaped community near Charlotte, NC. Pastor Derwin and his wife, Vicki, have been married since 1992 and have two children: daughter, Presley, and son, Jeremiah. He is a bestselling author of several books including Lit Up With Love, The Good Life, Limitless Life, God, Do You Hear Me?, Building a Multiethnic Church, and How to Heal Our Racial Divide. Mentioned Resources: 📖 His Book:  It's Time to Heal 🌐 His Website: derwinlgray.com 🌐 Transformation Church: transformationchurch.tc 🎧 His Podcast: Transforming the church 📱 Socials: @derwinlgray    Connect with Future Christian: 📱 Future Christian Instagram: futurechristianpod 📱 Martha's Instagram: martha_tatarnic 📱 Loren's Instagram: lorenrichmondjr 🟧 Future Christian Substack: https://futurechristian.substack.com/   Supporting Sponsors: Martha's Book! Anne Boleyn: Reputation, Revolution, Religion, and the Queen Who Changed History - Available now! Loren's New Book: The Church as Community Hub: Sharing Spaces to Help Neighborhoods Thrive - Available for pre-order! Free Range Priest Helping clergy and congregations reimagine ministry in the digital age.   Future Christian Team: Loren Richmond Jr. – Host & Executive Producer Martha Tatarnic – Co-Host Dennis Sanders – Producer   SEO / Keywords Derwin Gray, Dr. Derwin L. Gray, It’s Time to Heal, Christian healing, healing from trauma, trauma and Christianity, church hurt, healing from church hurt, religious trauma, Christian identity, woundedness and identity, forgiveness and healing, reconciliation, Christian mental health, faith and therapy, post traumatic growth, cognitive behavioral therapy and Christianity, Transformation Church, Christian leadership, pastoral leadership, political polarization and Christianity, church and politics, MAGA and Christianity, evangelicalism and politics, future of evangelicalism, American Christianity, multiethnic church, N.T. Wright, John Wesley, NFL and Christianity, faith and football, future of the church, Future Christian Podcast, Loren Richmond Jr.  

What happens when the church’s desire for growth becomes a form of idolatry? Andrew Root returns to Future Christian to discuss his new book, Baal and the Gods of More: Rescuing Church Growth from Idolatry. Root argues that churches across the theological spectrum have become captured by a logic of escalation: more people, more resources, more innovation, more relevance, more affirmation. The problem is that there is never a point when we can finally say, “Enough.” Drawing connections between the worship of Baal in the Old Testament, modern capitalism, and contemporary church growth, Loren and Andy explore what churches believe will actually save them. They discuss Root’s categories of “techno-optimists” and “identitarians”—two groups that may appear opposed but can share the assumption that the church will survive if it can simply accumulate enough of the right kind of capital. Together they explore: When church growth becomes a form of idolatry Why churches struggle to ever say “enough” Techno-optimists, identitarians, and competing visions of church renewal Why money can function as more “real” than God in church decision-making The relationship between economic prosperity and American Protestantism Why the church keeps trying to recover its golden age Prayer, confession, and discerning where God is actually at work Andrew Root is the Carrie Olson Baalson professor of youth and family ministry at Luther Seminary in St. Paul, Minnesota. He writes and researches in areas of theology, ministry, culture and younger generations.  His recent books are Churches and the Crisis of Decline, When Church Stops Working, and The Church After Innovation. Andy has worked in congregations, parachurch ministries, and social service programs. He lives in St. Paul with his wife Kara, two children, Owen and Maisy, and their dog. When not reading, writing, or teaching, Andy spends far too much time watching TV and movies. Mentioned Resources: 📖 His Book:  Baal and the gods of more 🌐 The Iowa Preachers Project: iapreachers.org 🎧 Episodes Referenced: Ryan Burge 🎧 Episodes Referenced: Andy Root    Connect with Future Christian: 📱 Future Christian Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/futurechristianpod/ 📱 Martha's Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/martha_tatarnic/ 📱 Loren's Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/richmondljr/ 🟧 Future Christian Substack: https://futurechristian.substack.com/   Supporting Sponsors: Martha's Book! Anne Boleyn: Reputation, Revolution, Religion, and the Queen Who Changed History - Available now! Loren's New Book: The Church as Community Hub: Sharing Spaces to Help Neighborhoods Thrive - Available for pre-order! Free Range Priest Helping clergy and congregations reimagine ministry in the digital age.   Future Christian Team: Loren Richmond Jr. – Host & Executive Producer Martha Tatarnic – Co-Host Dennis Sanders – Producer   SEO / Keywords Andrew Root, Baal and the Gods of More, church growth, church growth movement, church growth and idolatry, theology of church growth, church decline, future of the church, Protestant decline, mainline church decline, church innovation, church renewal, theology of the cross, ministry in a secular age, Hartmut Rosa, logic of escalation, capitalism and Christianity, capitalism and church growth, money and ministry, church finances, techno optimism, identity politics and church, identitarianism, Christian identity, law and gospel, Christian ministry, pastoral leadership, congregational leadership, American Protestantism, church attendance decline, Ryan Burge, Luther Seminary, practical theology, future of Christianity, Future Christian Podcast, Loren Richmond Jr.  

What if being told “you are enough” isn’t actually good news? David Zahl, founder and director of Mockingbird Ministries and author of The Big Relief: The Urgency of Grace for a Worn-Out World, joins Loren for an in-person conversation about grace, exhaustion, guilt, and the pressures shaping modern life. Zahl argues that beneath our culture’s constant messages of self-affirmation is an uncomfortable reality: most of us don’t actually feel like we’re enough. The Christian answer isn’t simply to convince ourselves otherwise, but to discover that Christ is enough—and God loves us in the midst of our inadequacy. David and Loren explore the endless pressure to perform—from careers and parenting to politics, social media, and youth sports—and how even attempts to prove our goodness can become exhausting forms of self-justification. They also venture into a provocative conversation about guilt and atonement, including why theological ideas rejected by some Christians may sound very different to someone who has caused real harm and desperately needs forgiveness. Together they explore: Why going to church remains his most important spiritual practice The pressure and exhaustion underneath modern life Why “you are enough” often fails to deliver Grace as an alternative to endless self-justification Guilt, forgiveness, and recovering the language of atonement Why church provides something community alone cannot Why the church needs to get back to the “forgiveness of sins business” David Zahl is the founder and director of Mockingbird Ministries, editor-in-chief of the Mockingbird website, and co-host of both The Mockingcast and The Brothers Zahl podcasts. Zahl is the author of Seculosity: How Career, Parenting, Technology, Food, Politics, and Romance Became Our New Religion and What To Do About It and Low Anthropology: The Unlikely Key to a Gracious View of Others (and Yourself). His latest book, The Big Relief: The Urgency of Grace for a Worn-Out World appeared in April 2025 from Brazos Press. His writing has been featured in The Washington Post, Christianity Today, and The Guardian, among other venues. He and his family live in Charlottesville, Virginia, where he also serves on the staff of Christ Episcopal Church. Even after all these years, he’s still mourning the end of Calvin and Hobbes (and hoping that Morrissey and Marr will bury the hatchet). His favorite theologian is probably a cross between Johnny Cash, Flannery O’Connor and his brother Simeon.   Mentioned Resources: 📖 His Book:  The Big Relief 🌐 Mockingbird Ministries: Mbird.com 🌐 The Iowa Preachers Project: iapreachers.org 🎧 Mockingbird podcasts: podcasts 🎧 Episodes Referenced: Andy Root    Connect with Future Christian: 📱 Future Christian Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/futurechristianpod/ 📱 Martha's Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/martha_tatarnic/ 📱 Loren's Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/richmondljr/ 🟧 Future Christian Substack: https://futurechristian.substack.com/   Supporting Sponsors: Martha's Book! Anne Boleyn: Reputation, Revolution, Religion, and the Queen Who Changed History - Available now! Loren's New Book: The Church as Community Hub: Sharing Spaces to Help Neighborhoods Thrive - Available for pre-order! Free Range Priest Helping clergy and congregations reimagine ministry in the digital age.   Future Christian Team: Loren Richmond Jr. – Host & Executive Producer Martha Tatarnic – Co-Host Dennis Sanders – Producer   SEO / Keywords David Zahl, The Big Relief, Mockingbird Ministries, grace for a worn out world, Christian grace, theology of grace, you are enough, Christian self worth, self justification, guilt and grace, atonement theology, substitutionary atonement, forgiveness of sins, church and forgiveness, why church matters, importance of church attendance, modern exhaustion, burnout and Christianity, pressure to perform, parenting pressure, youth sports and church, social media and Christianity, Gen Z and Christianity, church and mental health, Andrew Root, Ryan Burge, Jonathan Haidt, Low Anthropology, Seculosity, Christian anthropology, future of Christianity, future of the church, Episcopal Church, Future Christian Podcast, Loren Richmond Jr.

What if Christians were known more for what they're for than what they're against? Dave Runyon, executive director of City Unite and co-author of The Art of Neighboring, joins Loren to talk about what it means for Christians and churches to pursue the good of their communities in an increasingly polarized culture. Drawing from years of bringing faith, government, and business leaders together across the Denver metro area, Dave offers a vision for Christian public witness rooted in relationships, collaboration, and actual neighboring. Dave and Loren explore the challenge of creating churches where people with different political convictions can still worship together, why bridge-building requires learning to hold tension, and what Dave learned working with Colorado Governor Jared Polis and hundreds of faith leaders during COVID. They also discuss why the loudest voices on social media may not represent most people—and why Christians shouldn't allow outrage to dictate their public witness. Together they explore: Dave's journey from pastor to community organizer Why politically diverse churches are becoming harder to sustain Holding convictions without turning churches into political echo chambers Why bridge builders have to learn to hold tension Asset-based community development versus organizing around anger Recovering proximity-based relationships and a theology of place Why Christians should be known for what they're for Dave Runyon helps faith, business, and government leaders unite around common causes in the Denver metro area. He serves as the Executive Director of CityUnite and as a consultant for businesses who have a desire to make a positive impact in their communities. Dave helped to start a neighboring movement that has now spread to over 2,500 churches around the country. This experience prompted him to co-author “The Art of Neighboring,” which was published by Baker Books and has sold over 150,000 copies. He speaks locally and nationally, encouraging leaders to collaborate for the good of their cities. Before founding CityUnite, Dave served as a pastor for ten years at Foothills Community Church and The Next Level Church. He graduated from Colorado State University, where he studied history, economics, and education. Dave and his wife, Lauren, have four kids and do not plan to have any more.   Mentioned Resources: 📖 His Book: The Art of Neighboring 🌐 City Unite: CityUnite.org 🎧 Episodes Referenced: Alan Roxburgh    Connect with Future Christian: 📱 Future Christian Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/futurechristianpod/ 📱 Martha's Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/martha_tatarnic/ 📱 Loren's Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/richmondljr/ 🟧 Future Christian Substack: https://futurechristian.substack.com/   Supporting Sponsors: Martha's Book! Anne Boleyn: Reputation, Revolution, Religion, and the Queen Who Changed History - Available now! Loren's New Book: The Church as Community Hub: Sharing Spaces to Help Neighborhoods Thrive - Available for pre-order! Free Range Priest Helping clergy and congregations reimagine ministry in the digital age.   Future Christian Team: Loren Richmond Jr. – Host & Executive Producer Martha Tatarnic – Co-Host Dennis Sanders – Producer   SEO / Keywords Dave Runyon, City Unite, The Art of Neighboring, love your neighbor, Christian unity, Christian polarization, faith and politics, church and politics, purple church, political diversity in churches, Christian public witness, civic engagement, church and community, community engagement, neighboring movement, theology of place, proximity-based relationships, church unity, bridge building, Christian civility, common good, asset-based community development, John McKnight, Colorado Prayer Luncheon, Governor Jared Polis, faith leaders and government, church collaboration, missional church, William Wilberforce, church leadership, future of the church, Future Christian Podcast, Loren Richmond Jr.

Can Mainline Christianity find its future? In this episode, Loren Richmond Jr. talks with United Methodist scholar Lovett Weems to discuss his new book, An Aura of Hope: United Methodism's Next Chapter in the United States. While the conversation begins with the United Methodist Church's recent disaffiliation, it quickly broadens into a thoughtful exploration of the challenges facing Mainline Christianity as a whole—from shifting demographics and institutional decline to recovering a clear sense of mission. Weems argues that the greatest challenge before the church isn't simply theological disagreement, but a loss of focus. Drawing on John Wesley's theology and decades of church leadership experience, he encourages congregations to rediscover "the people God has given us" and to evaluate every ministry by asking a simple question: "So that...?" What fruit is this producing? How is it helping the church fulfill its mission? Whether you're Methodist or not, this conversation offers practical wisdom for pastors and church leaders wondering what faithful ministry looks like in a rapidly changing world. Together they explore: What the United Methodist disaffiliation teaches the wider church Why churches lose their sense of mission and identity John Wesley's vision for "the people God has given us" Lessons from the Sunday school movement Rural churches, urban growth, and changing demographics Why reaching younger and more diverse communities matters The difference between institutional success and biblical fruitfulness Dr. Lovett H. Weems, Jr., is distinguished professor of church leadership emeritus at Wesley Theological Seminary in Washington, DC. He came to Wesley in 2003 as the founding director of the Wesley’s Lewis Center for Church Leadership after eighteen years as president of Saint Paul School of Theology in Kansas City. Previously he was a pastor in Mississippi for many years. A native of Mississippi, Dr. Weems is a graduate of Millsaps College; Perkins School of Theology, Southern Methodist University; and Wesley Theological Seminary. He holds honorary degrees from Baker University, Central Methodist University, and Millsaps College. His years in local church ministry in Mississippi were marked by both evangelism and social concerns. His work in Mississippi led distinguished Mississippi writer Willie Morris to describe him as “one of the persons who added much to the growing civility of Mississippi.”  He is the author of numerous books including his widely used church leadership text, Church Leadership: Vision, Team, Culture, and Integrity, described by Rosabeth Moss Kanter of Harvard Business School as “an invaluable guide to leadership in the church.” His most recent book is An Aura of Hope: United Methodism’s Next Chapter in the United States.        Mentioned Resources: 📖 His Book: An Aura of Hope 🌐 Lewis Center for Leadership: churchleadership.com 🟧 His Substack: United Methodist Focus 🎧 Episodes Referenced: Doug Powe      Connect with Future Christian: 📱 Future Christian Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/futurechristianpod/ 📱 Martha's Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/martha_tatarnic/ 📱 Loren's Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/richmondljr/ 🟧 Future Christian Substack: https://futurechristian.substack.com/   Supporting Sponsors: Martha's Book! Anne Boleyn: Reputation, Revolution, Religion, and the Queen Who Changed History - Available now! Loren's New Book: The Church as Community Hub: Sharing Spaces to Help Neighborhoods Thrive - Available for pre-order! Free Range Priest Helping clergy and congregations reimagine ministry in the digital age.   Future Christian Team: Loren Richmond Jr. – Host & Executive Producer Martha Tatarnic – Co-Host Dennis Sanders – Producer   SEO / Keywords Lovett Weems, An Aura of Hope, United Methodist Church, United Methodist disaffiliation, mainline Christianity, future of the mainline church, church leadership, church renewal, congregational leadership, John Wesley, Methodist history, Methodist renewal, church identity, church mission, common good, Christian leadership, church demographics, rural churches, urban ministry, Sunday school movement, church growth, church decline, congregational vitality, fruitfulness in ministry, Lewis Center for Church Leadership, Francis Asbury, Christian conferencing, church and culture, future of the church, Future Christian Podcast, Loren Richmond Jr.    

What if the sermon wasn't something delivered to the congregation—but something created with the congregation? In this episode, Martha Tatarnic talks with the Rev. Peter Levenstrong, associate rector of St. Gregory of Nyssa Episcopal Church in San Francisco and author of Collaborative Sermons. Peter shares how his congregation developed "Living Story Sermons," an interactive, tactile approach to preaching that invites worshippers to wonder together, contribute their own insights, and trust the Holy Spirit to speak through the entire community—not just the preacher. Drawing from years of experimentation and research across multiple congregations, Peter discusses why collaborative preaching is more than a novel technique. It's a response to spiritual trauma, declining trust in institutions, growing digital isolation, and the church's need to become an embodied, relational community in an AI-shaped world. Together, Martha and Peter explore how collaborative sermons foster biblical engagement, deepen participation, create healing, and offer a compelling vision for the future of Christian worship. Together they explore: Why traditional sermons often assume only one person has something worthwhile to say The origins of Living Story Sermons during the COVID pandemic How collaborative preaching builds trust and participation Research findings on biblical retention and congregational engagement Why collaborative sermons can be healing for people with church hurt Creating "analog havens" in an increasingly AI-driven world The future of preaching, worship, and embodied Christian community The Rev. Peter Levenstrong is Associate Rector at St. Gregory of Nyssa Episcopal Church in San Francisco, where over the past six years he developed Living Stories Sermons, a collaborative, tactile preaching method now used by more than 130 preachers across denominations. His book Collaborative Sermons: A Guide to Authentic, Interactive Worship through Living Stories is out from Church Publishing in August 2026. He writes about the human part of ministry in an AI world on his Substack, The Human Part, and is a Trinity Leadership Fellow (2025–27) and Senior Fellow on AI at TryTank Research Institute. He holds an MDiv from Yale Divinity School and lives in Oakland with his wife Kaitlin and their son Caspian.   Mentioned Resources: 📖 His Book: Collaborative Sermons 🌐 Living Stories Newsletter: LSS Sign-Up for Newsletter 🟧 Peter's Substack: The Human Part 📱 Socials: His Facebook 🎧 Episodes Referenced: Doug Pagitt    Connect with Future Christian: 📱 Future Christian Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/futurechristianpod/ 📱 Martha's Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/martha_tatarnic/ 📱 Loren's Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/richmondljr/ 🟧 Future Christian Substack: https://futurechristian.substack.com/   Supporting Sponsors: Martha's New Book! Anne Boleyn: Reputation, Revolution, Religion, and the Queen Who Changed History - Available now! Loren's New Book: The Church as Community Hub: Sharing Spaces to Help Neighborhoods Thrive - Available for pre-order! Free Range Priest Helping clergy and congregations reimagine ministry in the digital age.   Future Christian Team: Loren Richmond Jr. – Host & Executive Producer Martha Tatarnic – Co-Host Dennis Sanders – Producer   SEO / Keywords Peter Levenstrong, Collaborative Sermons, Living Story Sermons, collaborative preaching, interactive preaching, participatory worship, sermon preparation, preaching and AI, AI and ministry, future of preaching, Episcopal Church, St. Gregory of Nyssa Episcopal Church, Godly Play, Jerome Berryman, intergenerational worship, worship innovation, biblical engagement, church leadership, preaching methods, homiletics, sermon collaboration, Holy Spirit and preaching, analog church, embodied worship, digital discipleship, church and artificial intelligence, worship renewal, future of the church, Future Christian Podcast, Martha Tatarnic, Loren Richmond Jr.

What does faithful Christian engagement in politics actually look like? In this episode, Loren talks with Justin Giboney, co-founder and president of the AND Campaign, to discuss his book Don't Let Nobody Turn You Around. Drawing lessons from the Black Church during the Civil Rights Movement, Giboney argues that Christians today have much to learn about integrity, public witness, moral imagination, and resisting the temptation to sacrifice biblical principles for political victories. The conversation also examines moral imagination, the role of institutions, gerrymandering, Christian public witness, and why the Civil Rights Movement remains one of the clearest examples of faithful political engagement in American history. Rather than offering partisan solutions, Giboney challenges Christians to recover a distinctly Christian approach to civic life that reflects the character of Jesus. Together they explore: What the Civil Rights Movement teaches Christians today Moral imagination and faithful public witness Why good causes don't justify unethical means The danger of making political opponents irredeemable Self-purification, spiritual formation, and Christian activism How Christians can engage politics without embracing tribalism Why justice and the gospel belong together   Justin E. Giboney (JD, Vanderbilt University) is the cofounder and president of the AND Campaign, a Christian civic organization focused on raising civic literacy, promoting civic pluralism, and equipping Christians to engage politics with the love and truth of Jesus Christ. An ordained minister, attorney, and political strategist, Giboney has been featured in publications such as the New York Times and Christianity Today and is the coauthor of the book Compassion (&) Conviction. He lives in Atlanta, Georgia, with his wife and three sons.   Mentioned Resources: 📖 His Book: Don't Let Nobody Turn You Around 🌐 Website: andcampaign.org/ 📱 Socials: @justinegiboney 🎧 Episodes Referenced: Ryan Burge    Connect with Future Christian: 📱 Future Christian Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/futurechristianpod/ 📱 Martha's Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/martha_tatarnic/ 📱 Loren's Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/richmondljr/ 🟧 Future Christian Substack: https://futurechristian.substack.com/   Supporting Sponsors: Martha's New Book! Anne Boleyn: Reputation, Revolution, Religion, and the Queen Who Changed History - Available now! Loren's New Book: The Church as Community Hub: Sharing Spaces to Help Neighborhoods Thrive - Available for pre-order! Free Range Priest Helping clergy and congregations reimagine ministry in the digital age.   Future Christian Team: Loren Richmond Jr. – Host & Executive Producer Martha Tatarnic – Co-Host Dennis Sanders – Producer   SEO / Keywords Justin Giboney, AND Campaign, Don't Let Nobody Turn You Around, Black church, Civil Rights Movement, Christian public witness, faith and politics, Christian political engagement, moral imagination, Christian ethics, church and politics, civic engagement, political polarization, justice and the gospel, Christian nationalism, Christian civic responsibility, public theology, Martin Luther King Jr., Frederick Douglass, Ryan Burge, The Vanishing Church, Christian leadership, church and democracy, church and culture, civic pluralism, Christian discipleship, future of the church, Future Christian Podcast, Loren Richmond Jr.

Why do so many church renewal efforts fall short? In this episode, Loren Richmond Jr. talks with Kris Vos and Larry Doornbos of the Center for Church Renewal about what they've learned from working with more than 120 congregations across North America. Rather than offering quick fixes or flashy programs, they make the case that genuine renewal begins with listening, discipleship, and a renewed commitment to the church's mission. The conversation explores the common challenges facing churches today—from declining attendance and outdated governance structures to unhealthy congregational cultures and the temptation to prioritize institutional survival over the gospel. Kris and Larry explain why renewal is measured in years, not months, and why churches must focus on making disciples rather than simply attracting attenders. They also discuss practical leadership questions: how to create a culture of grace and permission, why church structures should serve mission instead of hindering it, how congregations can better connect with their communities, and what leaders can learn from Native American and Latino churches about relationships and storytelling. Throughout the conversation, they emphasize that renewal is possible—but only through patient, intentional leadership rooted in the gospel. Together they explore: Why churches often misdiagnose their real problems The "Big Three" challenges facing most congregations Why outreach often fails to build lasting relationships How church governance can either enable or hinder mission Why renewal takes far longer than most churches expect When churches should pursue renewal—and when it may be time to "complete and bless" Lessons from Native American and Latino congregations Kris Vos is the campus pastor of a church restart in Lake Worth, FL that is part of Sunlight Community Church campuses of South Florida. He is also the Director of the Center for Church Renewal. Previously, he spent 20 years leading a church plant, Crossroads Community Church, in Schererville, IN. On his journey of church planting, he spent time learning from and training other church planters. Currently, in the work of renewal he has come alongside other renewal leaders. His greatest passion is building relationships with people who don’t know Christ. He was discipled for 2 years in college and continues to invest himself in discipling others. He is married to Debra and together they have four children and four grandchildren. Larry Doornbos loves and is committed to the local church. He is an experienced pastor, church planter, and leader. He began his ministry in Rehoboth, New Mexico. During his time Rehoboth CRC took fresh steps in ministry and mission. In 1993, Larry, along with a core group of seven families, began EverGreen Ministries in Hudsonville, Michigan. EverGreen is an outward-facing church that serves its community and the world. Larry served as Director of Vibrant Congregations, helping congregations discover their God-given, hope-filled future. Presently he is president of Imagine Church and director of the New Horizons Project. In his free time Larry loves hanging out with his wife Linda (professor at Oakland University), exploring cities and viewing British TV. He also works out, but he does not enjoy that at all. Linda and Larry have two children: Gayle, a professor at Dordt University, and Chris, a special-needs young man who inspires many.   Mentioned Resources: 🌐 Website: ChurchRenew.org 📱 Socials: @centerforchurchrenewal 🎧 Episodes Referenced: Jarrod Longbohns 🎧 Episodes Referenced: Andrew Root    Connect with Future Christian: 📱 Future Christian Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/futurechristianpod/ 📱 Martha's Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/martha_tatarnic/ 📱 Loren's Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/richmondljr/ 🟧 Future Christian Substack: https://futurechristian.substack.com/   Supporting Sponsors: Martha's New Book! Anne Boleyn: Reputation, Revolution, Religion, and the Queen Who Changed History - Available now! Loren's New Book: The Church as Community Hub: Sharing Spaces to Help Neighborhoods Thrive - Available for pre-order! Free Range Priest Helping clergy and congregations reimagine ministry in the digital age.   Future Christian Team: Loren Richmond Jr. – Host & Executive Producer Martha Tatarnic – Co-Host Dennis Sanders – Producer   SEO / Keywords Kris Vos, Larry Doornbos, Center for Church Renewal, church renewal, church revitalization, renewing the church, congregational renewal, church leadership, church discipleship, making disciples, healthy church culture, church governance, church mission, missional church, church outreach, church growth, church decline, congregational transformation, church vision, discipleship pathway, church culture, church leadership development, Christian Reformed Church, Reformed Church in America, church planting, church life cycle, adaptive church leadership, Native American churches, Latino churches, Andrew Root, Future Christian Podcast, Loren Richmond Jr.        

Every church tells a story. The question is: Is it the right one? In this episode, Loren Richmond Jr. talks with sociologist Joel Thiessen about The Stories Congregations Tell, a research project exploring why some churches flourish through seasons of transition while others struggle. Drawing on case studies from congregations across Canada, Thiessen argues that the stories churches tell about their past, present, and future profoundly shape their identity, leadership, and mission. The conversation explores how congregations develop a healthy sense of identity without becoming trapped by nostalgia, why flourishing is about far more than numerical growth, and how local churches are constantly shaped by the wider cultural stories surrounding them. Thiessen also explains why sociology can help churches understand themselves more honestly—not to replace theology, but to deepen it. Whether your church is growing, plateauing, or navigating significant change, this conversation offers practical wisdom for understanding the narratives that shape congregational life—and how a healthier story can lead to a healthier future. Together they explore: Why every congregation tells a story—and why it matters How churches connect their past, present, and future The cultural stories shaping congregational life How churches develop resilience through seasons of change The importance of intergenerational community How churches can resist the "bigger is better" mindset Practical ways congregations can discover and live into their own story Joel Thiessen is Professor of Sociology, Chair of the Social Sciences Department, and Director of the Flourishing Congregations Institute at Ambrose University in Calgary, Alberta, Canada. He is a sociologist of religion who specializes in religion in Canada, religious nones, congregations, millennials, and more recently, death and dying.   Mentioned Resources: 📖 The book: The Stories Congregations Tell 🌐 Website: joelthiessen.ca 🌐 Website: www.flourishingcongregations.org 📱 Socials: linkedin 🎧 Episodes Referenced: David Anderson Hooker 🎧 Episodes Referenced: Gerardo Marti & Mark Mulder 🎧 Episodes Referenced: Andrew Root 🎧 Episodes Referenced: John Hawthorne 🎧 Episodes Referenced: Cash & Wilcoxson  🎧 Episodes Referenced: Christian Smith    Connect with Future Christian: 📱 Future Christian Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/futurechristianpod/ 📱 Martha's Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/martha_tatarnic/ 📱 Loren's Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/richmondljr/ 🟧 Future Christian Substack: https://futurechristian.substack.com/   Supporting Sponsors: Martha's New Book! Anne Boleyn: Reputation, Revolution, Religion, and the Queen Who Changed History - Available now! Loren's New Book: The Church as Community Hub: Sharing Spaces to Help Neighborhoods Thrive - Available for pre-order! Free Range Priest Helping clergy and congregations reimagine ministry in the digital age.   Future Christian Team: Loren Richmond Jr. – Host & Executive Producer Martha Tatarnic – Co-Host Dennis Sanders – Producer   SEO / Keywords Joel Thiessen, The Stories Congregations Tell, flourishing congregations, church storytelling, congregational identity, church leadership, congregational flourishing, church growth research, sociology of religion, Canadian churches, church culture, congregational change, resilient churches, church transitions, church narrative, congregational resilience, intergenerational church, church mission and identity, spiritual formation, church leadership development, keychain leadership, Hartmut Rosa, Andrew Root, Christian Smith, Richard Osmer, Flourishing Congregations Institute, Ambrose University, future of the church, Future Christian Podcast, Loren Richmond Jr.

Why do church search committees so often struggle to find the right pastor? In this episode, Loren Richmond Jr. talks with novelist Michelle Huneven about her acclaimed novel Search, a witty and surprisingly insightful look at the dynamics of a church pastoral search committee. Although fictional, the novel captures many of the real-world challenges congregations face as they discern leadership, navigate competing priorities, and wrestle with their own identities. The conversation explores why churches are often drawn to charismatic candidates, how institutional blind spots shape hiring decisions, and why healthy congregations begin with self-awareness rather than simply searching for the "perfect" pastor. Huneven reflects on the parallels between church searches, university hiring, and other institutional decision-making, highlighting how group dynamics, consensus, and competing visions of the future influence outcomes. They also discuss declining church attendance, denominational structures, diversity, congregational governance, and the enduring tension between preserving tradition and embracing change. Along the way, Huneven shares practical wisdom from her own experience as a novelist, teacher, and occasional preacher about creativity, leadership, and the writing process. Together they explore: Why church search committees often struggle to discern the right leader The appeal—and danger—of charismatic candidates How group dynamics shape congregational decision-making Institutional health and leadership transitions Consensus, conflict, and competing visions for the future Why healthy churches are marked by self-awareness Michelle Huneven is the author of six novels, most recently Search and Bug Hollow. She teaches creative writing at UCLA. Among other honors she has received a James Beard Award, a Guggenheim Fellowship, and a Literature Award from the American Academy of Arts and Letters. She lost her house in Altadena, California in the Eaton fire so, while rebuilding, she lived in Los Angeles with her husband, dog, and talkative African Gray parrot.   Mentioned Resources: 📖 Her book: Search 🌐 Her Website: Michelle Huneven.com 📱 Socials: @michellehuneven 🎧 Episodes Referenced:    Connect with Future Christian: 📱 Future Christian Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/futurechristianpod/ 📱 Martha's Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/martha_tatarnic/ 📱 Loren's Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/richmondljr/ 🟧 Future Christian Substack: https://futurechristian.substack.com/   Supporting Sponsors: Martha's New Book! Anne Boleyn: Reputation, Revolution, Religion, and the Queen Who Changed History - Available now! Loren's New Book: The Church as Community Hub: Sharing Spaces to Help Neighborhoods Thrive - Available for pre-order! Free Range Priest Helping clergy and congregations reimagine ministry in the digital age.   Future Christian Team: Loren Richmond Jr. – Host & Executive Producer Martha Tatarnic – Co-Host Dennis Sanders – Producer   SEO / Keywords Michelle Huneven, Search novel, church search committees, pastoral search process, calling a pastor, church leadership transitions, congregational discernment, church governance, congregational polity, church committee dynamics, hiring a pastor, pastoral candidates, church conflict, charismatic leadership, institutional leadership, church decision making, healthy churches, congregational self-awareness, Unitarian Universalist church, Christian Church Disciples of Christ, United Church of Christ, Methodist church appointments, church decline, future of the church, ministry leadership, church consulting, creative writing and faith, novels about church, Future Christian Podcast, Loren Richmond Jr.  

What happens when artificial intelligence becomes part of everyday life—and what role should the church play in helping people navigate it? In this episode, Loren welcomes theologian, pastor, and AI thought leader Christopher Benek for a conversation about artificial intelligence, spiritual formation, ethics, and the future of the church. Drawing on more than a decade of work at the intersection of faith and technology, Benek argues that AI is not merely a technological challenge but a deeply theological one. The conversation explores how churches can move beyond fear and hype to cultivate wisdom, discernment, and meaningful conversations about emerging technologies. Benek reflects on AI's impact on preaching, ministry, work, identity, and ethics, while emphasizing that the church's unique contribution is not technical expertise but spiritual formation. Together they discuss the opportunities and risks presented by AI, why pastors should help people make meaning in a rapidly changing world, and how Christian communities can become places where technologists, leaders, and everyday people wrestle with difficult questions together. The episode ultimately returns to themes of hope, discipleship, and the enduring relevance of the church in an age of disruption. Together they explore: Whether AI should be used in sermon preparation and ministry The difference between information, wisdom, and spiritual formation How churches can facilitate conversations about AI ethics Why pastors remain essential in an age of technological change Whether AI represents the biggest technological shift since the printing press How Christians can engage AI without fear or panic What the church uniquely offers in a rapidly changing world   The Rev. Dr. Christopher J. Benek is an internationally recognized pastor, theologian, and thought leader at the crossroads of faith and technology. His insights on artificial intelligence and theology have been featured in major outlets, including The New York Times, The Guardian, BBC, Le Monde, and others.  He has advised companies, policymakers, and governments on AI’s ethical and societal impact.  With more than 20 years of pastoral ministry, he currently serves as pastor of First Miami Presbyterian Church and CEO of The CoCreators Network, an organization dedicated to the vision of Better People, Better Tech, Better World.  Learn more about him at ChristopherBenek.com   Mentioned Resources: 📖 His book: The Church Leader's Guide to AI 🌐 His Website: ChristopherBenek.com 📱 Socials: @benekcj 🎧 Episodes Referenced: Chris Benek 🎧 Episodes Referenced: Mark DeYmaz 🎧 Episodes Referenced: Lorenzo Lebrija    Connect with Future Christian: 📱 Future Christian Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/futurechristianpod/ 📱 Martha's Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/martha_tatarnic/ 📱 Loren's Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/richmondljr/ 🟧 Future Christian Substack: https://futurechristian.substack.com/   Supporting Sponsors: Martha's New Book! Anne Boleyn: Reputation, Revolution, Religion, and the Queen Who Changed History - Available now! Loren's New Book: The Church as Community Hub: Sharing Spaces to Help Neighborhoods Thrive - Available for pre-order! Free Range Priest Helping clergy and congregations reimagine ministry in the digital age.   Future Christian Team: Loren Richmond Jr. – Host & Executive Producer Martha Tatarnic – Co-Host Dennis Sanders – Producer   SEO / Keywords Christopher Benek, artificial intelligence and Christianity, AI and theology, church and artificial intelligence, Christian AI ethics, faith and technology, AI in ministry, AI and preaching, pastors and artificial intelligence, spiritual formation and technology, theology of technology, Christian leadership and AI, AI ethics and faith, church leadership and innovation, future of the church, technology and discipleship, AI and human identity, meaning making and faith, digital ministry, Christian response to AI, AI and spiritual formation, emerging technology and religion, church innovation, theology and science, Christian ethics and technology, First Miami Presbyterian Church, Future Christian Podcast, Loren Richmond Jr.

What does it mean to stay at the table when disagreement, division, and distrust seem to be everywhere? In this episode, talks with Rev. Terri Hord Owens, General Minister and President of the Christian Church (Disciples of Christ), about her book Staying at the Table: Being the Church We Say We Are. Drawing on her experience as a denominational leader, pastor, and former corporate executive, Hord Owens reflects on the spiritual practices, theological commitments, and communal habits needed to sustain Christian unity in a polarized age. The conversation explores why staying at the table is both difficult and necessary, how churches can balance accountability with radical welcome, and why biblical literacy and spiritual formation remain essential for Christian witness. Hord Owens argues that churches often become more committed to preserving institutions than embodying the gospel, and she challenges Christians to recover a deeper commitment to love, humility, and community. They also discuss denominational identity, the future of small churches, the role of data in understanding ministry realities, and how congregations can create space for people who are searching for a faith community after leaving more rigid religious environments. Together they explore: What it means to "stay at the table" amid disagreement When unity is possible—and when leaving may be necessary Why spiritual practices and biblical literacy matter The tension between loving institutions and loving the gospel Welcoming people who are deconstructing or leaving other traditions Small churches, bivocational ministry, and denominational realities Rev. Teresa “Terri” Hord Owens is the General Minister and President of the Christian Church (Disciples of Christ) in the United States and Canada. She is the first person of color and second woman to lead the denomination, and the first woman of African descent to lead a mainline denomination. Elected in 2017, Rev. Hord Owens was re-elected to a second term as General Minister and President in 2023. Her ministry actively reflects the Disciples’ priority of being an anti-racist church, being a movement for wholeness, welcoming all to the Lord’s table as God has welcomed us. Her exhortation to the church is “Let’s be the church we say we are. It is in being who we say we are that we actively bear witness to God’s limitless love for all.” Rev. Hord Owens earned her bachelor’s degree from Harvard University and her MDiv from the University of Chicago Divinity School, where she subsequently served as Dean of Students for 12 years. Rev. Hord Owens’ resume includes more than 20 years of leadership in corporate America leading diverse teams in data management. She serves on the National Council of Churches as the Vice Chair of the Governing Board and is a member of the World Council of Churches Central Committee. Rev. Hord Owens is married to Walter Owens, Jr. They are the proud parents of an adult son, W. Mitchell Owens, III and daughter-in-law Adriana Owens. She is also the joyful grandmother of Zachary Owens. Mentioned Resources: 📖 Her book: Staying at the Table 🔴 Disciples of Christ Website: Disciples.org 📱 Facebook: Terri Hord Owens 🎧 Episodes Referenced: Terri Hord Owens    Connect with Future Christian: 📱 Future Christian Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/futurechristianpod/ 📱 Martha's Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/martha_tatarnic/ 📱 Loren's Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/richmondljr/ 🟧 Future Christian Substack: https://futurechristian.substack.com/   Supporting Sponsors: Martha's New Book! Anne Boleyn: Reputation, Revolution, Religion, and the Queen Who Changed History - Available now! Loren's New Book: The Church as Community Hub: Sharing Spaces to Help Neighborhoods Thrive - Available for pre-order! Free Range Priest Helping clergy and congregations reimagine ministry in the digital age.   Future Christian Team: Loren Richmond Jr. – Host & Executive Producer Martha Tatarnic – Co-Host Dennis Sanders – Producer   SEO / Keywords Terri Hord Owens, Staying at the Table, Christian Church Disciples of Christ, Disciples of Christ denomination, Christian unity, church disagreement, staying at the table, radical welcome, open communion, Lord's Supper theology, biblical literacy, spiritual practices, Christian discipleship, church accountability, Christian hospitality, deconstruction and faith, exvangelical church, inclusive Christianity, anti-racist church, denominational leadership, church unity and diversity, small church ministry, bivocational ministry, future of the church, ecumenical Christianity, Howard Thurman, Walter Brueggemann, Christian leadership, Future Christian Podcast, Loren Richmond Jr.

Why did religion decline in America—and was it really driven by hostility toward faith? In this episode, Loren talks with sociologist Christian Smith about his book Why Religion Went Obsolete and the cultural, technological, and institutional changes that reshaped American religion over the last several decades. Smith, well known for coining the term “moralistic therapeutic deism,” argues that religion did not simply decline or get pushed out by secularism—it became culturally obsolete. The conversation explores Smith’s argument that the early 1990s marked a major cultural turning point, driven by technological shifts, generational change, and evolving social expectations. Rather than abandoning spirituality altogether, many Americans sought meaning, identity, and transcendence elsewhere—in politics, digital communities, sports, and forms of what Smith calls “re-enchantment culture.” They also discuss the continuing influence of moralistic therapeutic deism, the role of scandal and self-inflicted wounds within religious institutions, and why Christianity’s challenges may be more internal and cultural than simply ideological or political. Together they explore: The lasting influence of moralistic therapeutic deism Why 1991 marked a cultural tipping point “Re-enchantment” and the rise of alternative spiritualities Religious scandal and Christianity’s self-inflicted wounds Why authenticity matters for younger generations Politics, polarization, and religion’s public witness What churches can learn from cultural change and loneliness Christian Smith is the William R. Kenan, Jr. Professor of Sociology Emeritus and Founding Director of the Center for the Study of Religion and Society at the University of Notre Dame. Smith is well known for his research focused on religion, adolescents and emerging adults, and social theory. Smith received his MA and PhD from Harvard University in 1990 and his BA from Gordon College in 1983. He was a Professor of Sociology at the University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill for 12 years before his move to Notre Dame. Mentioned Resources: 📖 His book: Why Religion Went Obsolete  🌐 Notre Dame Website: https://christiansmith.nd.edu/ 🎧 Episodes Referenced: Ryan Burge    Connect with Future Christian: 📱 Future Christian Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/futurechristianpod/ 📱 Martha's Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/martha_tatarnic/ 📱 Loren's Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/richmondljr/ 🟧 Future Christian Substack: https://futurechristian.substack.com/   Supporting Sponsors: Martha's New Book! Anne Boleyn: Reputation, Revolution, Religion, and the Queen Who Changed History - Available now! Loren's New Book: The Church as Community Hub: Sharing Spaces to Help Neighborhoods Thrive - Available for pre-order! Free Range Priest Helping clergy and congregations reimagine ministry in the digital age.   Future Christian Team: Loren Richmond Jr. – Host & Executive Producer Martha Tatarnic – Co-Host Dennis Sanders – Producer   SEO / Keywords Christian Smith sociology, Why Religion Went Obsolete, religion decline America, religion obsolete thesis, moralistic therapeutic deism, spirituality and secular culture, religious decline sociology, post Christian America, church decline and culture, generational religion trends, millennials and religion, Gen Z and religion, religion and technology, re-enchantment culture, spirituality not religious, paganism and spirituality, politics and religion America, mainline Protestant decline, evangelical decline, religion and authenticity, social media and faith, sociology of religion, Christian Smith Notre Dame, Future Christian Podcast, Loren Richmond Jr.

What happens when artificial intelligence goes to church? In this episode, Loren talks with pastor, missiologist, and researcher Todd Korpi about his book AI Goes to Church: Pastoral Wisdom for Artificial Intelligence and the opportunities—and dangers—AI presents for faith communities. Drawing from missiology, theology, and digital ministry research, Todd argues that AI is not merely a technical issue but a pastoral and spiritual one. Rather than approaching AI with either fear or blind enthusiasm, he invites Christians to ask deeper questions about wisdom, human identity, discipleship, and how technology shapes us. The conversation explores how emerging technologies influence our relationships, attention, and understanding of what it means to be human. Todd reflects on social media as a cautionary tale, the church’s tendency to “hitch its wagon” too tightly to political or technological movements, and why discernment matters more than speed or productivity. They also discuss the meaning of humanity as bearers of God’s image, the future of pastoral leadership, and why wisdom—not simply information—may be the church’s greatest contribution in an AI-shaped world. Together they explore: Why AI is a pastoral and spiritual issue—not just a technical one Why human identity cannot be reduced to technology or intelligence How AI can either create margin—or deepen busyness Why pastors should function more as guides than information gatekeepers What missiology teaches us about Gen Z and the future of the church The power of story in evangelism and discipleship Todd Korpi (DMiss, Fuller Theological Seminary) is a pastor, missiologist, and church consultant. He is dean of digital ministry programs at Ascent College, assistant professor of Christian leadership at Fuller Theological Seminary, and works in several capacities at OneHope. He also serves as the lead researcher of the Digital Mission Consortia, a collaborative research initiative exploring the frontier of digital ministry. Todd is the author of Your Daughters Shall Prophesy and The Life-Giving Spirit. He and his wife, Tara, live in Chicagoland with their three daughters.   Mentioned Resources: 📖 Todd's book: https://www.ivpress.com/ai-goes-to-church 🌐 His Website: https://www.toddkorpi.com 🎧 Episodes Referenced: Len Tang    Connect with Future Christian: 📱 Future Christian Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/futurechristianpod/ 📱 Martha's Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/martha_tatarnic/ 📱 Loren's Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/richmondljr/ 🟧 Future Christian Substack: https://futurechristian.substack.com/   Supporting Sponsors: Martha's New Book! Anne Boleyn: Reputation, Revolution, Religion, and the Queen Who Changed History - Available now! Loren's New Book: The Church as Community Hub: Sharing Spaces to Help Neighborhoods Thrive - Available for pre-order! Free Range Priest Helping clergy and congregations reimagine ministry in the digital age.   Future Christian Team: Loren Richmond Jr. – Host & Executive Producer Martha Tatarnic – Co-Host Dennis Sanders – Producer   SEO / Keywords Todd Korpi, AI and Christianity, artificial intelligence church, AI Goes to Church, digital ministry, church and technology, Christian ethics and AI, theology of technology, missiology and culture, digital discipleship, artificial intelligence ethics, church leadership and AI, social media and faith, human identity and technology, imago Dei theology, wisdom vs information, future of pastoral leadership, Gen Z and church, storytelling and evangelism, post industrial church, digital church ministry, Pentecostal spirituality, technology and discipleship, Future Christian Podcast, Loren Richmond Jr.

What if church buildings are far more valuable to communities than most people realize? In this episode, Loren Richmond Jr. talks with Bob Jaeger, co-founder and president of Partners for Sacred Places, about the future of church buildings, the hidden economic impact of congregations, and why sacred spaces still matter in an era of church decline. Drawing from decades of work helping congregations preserve and reimagine their buildings, Bob explains how churches often underestimate both their civic value and the possibilities already sitting inside their walls. The conversation explores the “halo effect” of churches, the economic and social impact congregations have on neighborhoods, and why many churches need to rethink how they steward and share their spaces. They discuss the rise of adaptive reuse projects, the dangers of waiting too long to make decisions about property, and how churches can partner with nonprofits, architects, and community organizations to imagine new futures for aging buildings. The conversation also explores the spiritual and cultural significance of church architecture and why sacred spaces continue to shape communities—even for people who never attend worship services. Together they explore: Why church buildings still matter spiritually and culturally The “halo effect” and economic value churches bring to communities Adaptive reuse, housing projects, and creative uses for church space Why churches need community partnerships and outside support The role of architecture in shaping faith and community identity Why churches should think of their buildings as mission assets What the future of sacred spaces might look like Robert Jaeger is the co-founder and president of Partners for Sacred Places, the nation’s leading nonprofit dedicated to the stewardship and preservation of historic religious properties. Since 1989, he has helped congregations across the country sustain their buildings as vital community assets, leading initiatives such as the Economic Halo Effect study and the New Dollars/New Partners program. With a background in historic preservation and organizational leadership, Jaeger previously founded the Historic Religious Properties Preservation Program at the Philadelphia Historic Preservation Corporation and has extensive experience in research, consulting, and publishing. He is the author or co-author of several influential works on sacred spaces and community renewal and has lectured widely at national and international conferences. Jaeger holds an MBA from the University of Michigan and a master’s degree in Preservation Planning from Cornell University.   Mentioned Resources: 📖 Sacred Places Magazine: Link here 🌐 Sacred Places Website: Partners for Sacred Places      Connect with Future Christian: 📱 Future Christian Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/futurechristianpod/ 📱 Martha's Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/martha_tatarnic/ 📱 Loren's Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/richmondljr/ 🟧 Future Christian Substack: https://futurechristian.substack.com/   Supporting Sponsors: Martha's New Book! Anne Boleyn: Reputation, Revolution, Religion, and the Queen Who Changed History - Available now! Loren's New Book: The Church as Community Hub: Sharing Spaces to Help Neighborhoods Thrive - Available for pre-order! Free Range Priest Helping clergy and congregations reimagine ministry in the digital age.   Future Christian Team: Loren Richmond Jr. – Host & Executive Producer Martha Tatarnic – Co-Host Dennis Sanders – Producer   SEO / Keywords Bob Jaeger, Partners for Sacred Places, church buildings future, sacred spaces preservation, church architecture theology, economic halo effect churches, adaptive reuse church buildings, church property redevelopment, church decline and buildings, historic church preservation, sacred places community impact, churches and affordable housing, church civic value, church fundraising property, nonprofit partnerships churches, church space sharing, community centered church, stewardship of church buildings, sacred architecture meaning, future of church property, church revitalization strategies, Future Christian Podcast, Loren Richmond Jr.

What if the story we’ve been told about Anne Boleyn is missing the most important part? In this episode, Loren Richmond Jr. talks with Martha Tatarnic—priest, author, and co-host of the podcast—about her new book Anne Boleyn: Reputation, Revolution, Religion, and the Queen Who Changed History and the overlooked role Anne played in shaping the English Reformation. Drawing from historical research and theological reflection, Martha challenges the familiar narrative that reduces Anne to a pawn in Henry VIII’s story. Instead, she presents Anne as a deeply formed, intellectually engaged, and theologically motivated leader whose influence helped shape the future of the Anglican Church. The conversation explores how Anne’s faith informed her convictions, her advocacy for an English Bible, and her support of key reformers whose impact is still felt today. They also examine how history has often distorted Anne’s story—especially through gendered narratives that diminish strong women—and why those patterns still matter for leadership in the church today. They discuss the ongoing challenges women face in ministry, the temptation toward self-congratulation in church systems, and the work still needed to create environments where all leaders can truly flourish. Together they explore: Why Anne Boleyn’s story has been misunderstood or misrepresented Her role as a reformer, not just a historical figure How her faith shaped her influence on the English Reformation How gendered narratives distort history and leadership Ongoing challenges for women in church leadership today Why the church must move beyond self-congratulation toward real change How Anne’s legacy still shapes Anglican identity and practice Martha Tatarnic is a contributor to Christian Century, a blogger on Medium, and co-host of the Future Christian podcast. She is the author of Why Gather? The Hope and Promise of the Church. She is a priest in the Anglican Church of Canada and rector at St. George's Anglican Church in St. Catherines, Ontario. She lives in Catherines, Ontario, Canada. Mentioned Resources: 📖 Martha's Books: https://churchpublishing.org/search?q=martha%20ta 🎧 Episodes Referenced: Martha Tatarnic 🎧 Episodes Referenced: Elizabeth Schrader Polczer: Pt 1 🎧 Episodes Referenced: Elizabeth Schrader Polczer: Pt 2      Connect with Future Christian: 📱 Future Christian Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/futurechristianpod/ 📱 Martha's Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/martha_tatarnic/ 📱 Loren's Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/richmondljr/ 🟧 Future Christian Substack: https://futurechristian.substack.com/   Supporting Sponsors: Martha's New Book! Anne Boleyn: Reputation, Revolution, Religion, and the Queen Who Changed History - Available now! Loren's New Book: The Church as Community Hub: Sharing Spaces to Help Neighborhoods Thrive - Available for pre-order! Free Range Priest Helping clergy and congregations reimagine ministry in the digital age.   Future Christian Team: Loren Richmond Jr. – Host & Executive Producer Martha Tatarnic – Co-Host Dennis Sanders – Producer   SEO / Keywords Anne Boleyn history, Anne Boleyn Reformation, English Reformation origins, Henry VIII and Anne Boleyn, Anglican Church history, Martha Tatarnic, women in church leadership, gender and church history, female leaders Christianity, church leadership challenges, Bible in English history, Tyndale New Testament, Thomas Cranmer Book of Common Prayer, Anglican identity theology, faith and power dynamics, church and patriarchy, women clergy challenges, sexual misconduct church accountability, historical theology women, Future Christian Podcast, Loren Richmond Jr.  

What happens when a pastor realizes they’re going through the motions—but not actually experiencing God? In this episode, Loren talks with Rev. Dr. Katherine Willis Pershey about faith, formation, and the unexpected influence of Eugene Peterson on her life and ministry. Drawing from her own journey across multiple Christian traditions, Katherine reflects on the tension between justice, belief, and personal encounter with God. The conversation explores how Peterson’s writing helped her rediscover prayer, Scripture, and the heart of pastoral vocation—not as performance or productivity, but as attentiveness to a living, active God. They also wrestle with the challenges of ministry in a secular age, the pressures facing pastors today, and the difficulty of maintaining spiritual depth in a culture shaped by busyness and division. They discuss the false divide between personal piety and social justice, the importance of spiritual practices like prayer and worship, and what it means to lead faithfully in a fragmented and polarized church landscape.   Together they explore: How Eugene Peterson reshaped her understanding of ministry The struggle to experience God while leading a church Why personal piety and social justice belong together The dangers of a purely “therapeutic” model of ministry What it means to believe in a real, active God today Navigating faith across evangelical and progressive divides Why pastors must protect time for prayer and reading Katherine Willis Pershey serves as co-pastor of First Congregational UCC Appleton, Wisconsin, having previously served congregations in Illinois and California. She is the author of Very Married: Field Notes on Love and Fidelity and co-author of Love Letters to God, and is a regular contributor to the Christian Century. She received a DMin from the Eugene Peterson Center for Christian Imagination at Western Theological Seminary in 2024.    Mentioned Resources: 🌐 Katherine's Website: katherinewillispershey.com 📖 Katherine's Books: Books & Writings 🟧 Katherine's Substack: katherinewillispershey.substack.com/ 📱 Facebook: @katherinewillispershey      Connect with Future Christian: 📱 Future Christian Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/futurechristianpod/ 📱 Martha's Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/martha_tatarnic/ 📱 Loren's Instagram: www.instagram.com/lorenrichmondjr/ 🟧 Future Christian Substack: https://futurechristian.substack.com/   Supporting Sponsors: Free Range Priest Helping clergy and congregations reimagine ministry in the digital age.  Martha's New Book! Anne Boleyn: Reputation, Revolution, Religion, and the Queen Who Changed History Available for Pre-order now!   Future Christian Team: Loren Richmond Jr. – Host & Executive Producer Martha Tatarnic – Co-Host Dennis Sanders – Producer   SEO / Keywords Katherine Willis Pershey, Eugene Peterson theology, The Message Bible, pastoral theology, spiritual formation pastors, progressive Christianity and orthodoxy, personal piety and social justice, prayer and ministry, contemplative pastor, working the angles, secular age Christianity, faith and doubt journey, church leadership formation, spiritual direction, mainline and evangelical divide, real active God theology, pastoral burnout and busyness, discipleship and formation, Future Christian Podcast, Loren Richmond Jr.

What if the early church wasn’t built primarily on teaching ideas—but on forming people together in the way of Jesus? In this episode, Martha Tatarnic talks with Dr. John Lewis about his book Discernment in the Early Church and Today and what we’ve misunderstood about the Apostle Paul. Drawing from deep study of Paul’s writings and decades of practical ministry, Lewis challenges the tendency to treat Paul as a systematic theologian rather than a pastor forming communities of lived faith. The conversation explores how early Christian communities were shaped through shared practices of discernment, where ordinary life events became the setting for discovering how Christ is at work. Rather than focusing primarily on belief or abstract theology, Paul’s aim was to form people over time—individually and communally—into the image of Jesus. They also discuss how this model translates today through small group discernment practices, the role of Scripture in shaping imagination rather than prescribing answers, and why this approach may be especially important in a time of political tension, institutional distrust, and spiritual fragmentation.   Together they explore: Why Paul was more pastor than systematic theologian How early Christian communities practiced discernment together The role of experience in forming faith—not just belief How small groups cultivate trust, vulnerability, and formation Why Scripture shapes imagination rather than giving simple answers Navigating politics and cultural tension through a Christ-centered lens Practical ways churches can recover communal discernment today   John Lewis is Theologian in Residence for the Iona Collaborative at Seminary of the Southwest (Austin, Texas), where he teaches online and in-person continuing education courses in New Testament and congregational leadership. He previously served as the seminary’s Director of the Iona Collaborative and Lecturer in New Testament and Spirituality (2016-21). John is also Co-Director of St. Benedict’s Workshop (San Antonio, Texas), a non-profit ministry he founded in 2001 to help Christian communities use Scripture to practice discipleship and discernment in all areas of daily life. Lewis is the author of Discernment in the Early Church and Today: Reclaiming Paul’s Vision for Formation and Community Building (Seabury Press, 2025) and Looking for Life: The Role of “Theo-Ethical Reasoning” in Paul’s Religion (T&T Clark [Continuum], 2005). He holds a Doctor of Philosophy in New Testament degree from the University of Oxford (2004) and a Master of Divinity degree, with honors, from Virginia Theological Seminary (1997). Prior to his ordination in The Episcopal Church (1997), John was a trial lawyer in San Antonio, Texas.   Mentioned Resources: 🌐 Iona Website: www.iona.ssw.edu 📖 John's Book: www.iona.ssw.edussw.edu/discernment-in-the-early-church-today/ 📱 Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/ionacollaborative 📱 Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/ionacollaborative    Connect with Future Christian: 📱 Future Christian Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/futurechristianpod/ 📱 Martha's Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/martha_tatarnic/ 📱 Loren's Instagram: www.instagram.com/lorenrichmondjr/ 🟧 Future Christian Substack: https://futurechristian.substack.com/   Supporting Sponsors: Free Range Priest Helping clergy and congregations reimagine ministry in the digital age.  Martha's New Book! Anne Boleyn: Reputation, Revolution, Religion, and the Queen Who Changed History Available for Pre-order now!   Future Christian Team: Loren Richmond Jr. – Host & Executive Producer Martha Tatarnic – Co-Host Dennis Sanders – Producer   SEO / Keywords John Lewis, theologian, Apostle Paul theology, early church practices, communal discernment, spiritual formation church, discipleship and formation, Pauline theology, church leadership formation, small group ministry, discernment practices, Scripture and imagination, lived faith Christianity, church and community building, ecclesia meaning, New Testament church life, formation vs information church, Anglican theology, Episcopal Church leadership, church renewal practices, faith and daily life, Future Christian Podcast, Martha Tatarnic, Loren Richmond Jr.

What’s really driving polarization in our churches—and how can leaders respond without getting pulled into the chaos? In this episode, Loren Richmond Jr. sits down with Jack Shatama to explore how family systems theory helps make sense of rising anxiety, division, and reactivity in both the church and society. Drawing on insights from sociology, leadership theory, and pastoral experience, Jack offers a framework for leading with clarity, conviction, and calm in an increasingly fragmented world. The conversation unpacks how chronic anxiety fuels polarization, why churches often get stuck in reactive patterns, and how leaders can cultivate a “non-anxious presence” that creates space for healthier relationships and deeper discipleship. Together they explore: How chronic anxiety leads to polarization in church and culture The difference between process and content—and why it matters Why conflict often becomes a “battle of wills” How identity has shifted from faith-based to politically driven Why setting boundaries is essential for healthy leadership The challenge of maintaining mission in anxious systems Jack Shitama is the Director of the Center for Vital Leadership, which serves the Peninsula-Delaware and Baltimore-Washington Conferences of The United Methodist Church (UMC). He is an ordained UMC minister and has served as pastor of churches in Port Deposit, MD and Chesapeake City, MD. Jack is the author of four books: Anxious Church, Anxious People, One New Habit, One Big Goal, If You Met My Family You’d Understand, Everyone Loves a Non-Anxious Presence. His website is the www.thenonanxiousleader.com. His podcast, The Non-Anxious Leader podcast is available on all platforms. Jack and his wife of 44 years, Jodi, have four children and seven grandchildren. Jack is an avid runner and has completed the Baltimore Marathon three times. He occasionally plays guitar and bass in the Jacob’s Well Band, his church’s worship band. He enjoys all kinds of sports, cooking, reading, traveling and, most of all, seeing people experience spiritual growth.   Mentioned Resources: 🌐 Jack's Website: https://thenonanxiousleader.com/about-jack-shitama/ 📖 Jack's Books: https://thenonanxiousleader.com/books/ 🎧 Jack's Podcast: The Non-Anxious Leader 🎧 Episodes Referenced: Jack Shitama    Connect with Future Christian: 📱 Future Christian Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/futurechristianpod/ 📱 Martha's Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/martha_tatarnic/ 📱 Loren's Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/richmondljr/ 🟧 Future Christian Substack: https://futurechristian.substack.com/   Supporting Sponsors: Free Range Priest Helping clergy and congregations reimagine ministry in the digital age.  Martha's New Book! Anne Boleyn: Reputation, Revolution, Religion, and the Queen Who Changed History Available for Pre-order now!   Future Christian Team: Loren Richmond Jr. – Host & Executive Producer Martha Tatarnic – Co-Host Dennis Sanders – Producer   SEO / Keywords Jack Shatama, non-anxious leadership, family systems theory church, Edwin Friedman Failure of Nerve, Murray Bowen theory, church polarization, anxiety in leadership, process vs content leadership, conflict of wills, self differentiation leadership, church conflict resolution, mainline church decline, Ryan Burge sociology religion, political polarization and church, identity and faith formation, micro habits spiritual practices, habit stacking faith, leadership boundaries church, difficult people in church, emotionally healthy leadership, discipleship formation church, future of the church leadership, adaptive leadership church, church systems thinking, Future Christian Podcast, Loren Richmond Jr.

What does it mean to lead the church in a time when the old maps no longer work—and the future feels uncertain? In this episode, Loren talks with Alan Roxburgh about leadership, the “great unraveling,” and why the church may be entering a prolonged “dark night” rather than a season of quick renewal. Drawing from Scripture, particularly the book of Jeremiah, Roxburgh challenges the assumption that progress and revival are inevitable. Instead, he invites leaders to reconsider how God forms communities of hope in seasons of disruption, not stability. The conversation explores how modern Western culture has shaped the church’s expectations around success, individualism, and technique—and why those frameworks may no longer be sustainable. Roxburgh emphasizes the need to recover practices of presence, listening, and local engagement as the foundation for faithful leadership. They also discuss the role of place, the importance of reimagining church spaces, and how communities can resist isolation by forming deeper, more relational ways of life. Ultimately, this episode reframes the future of the church not as something to fix or control, but as something to discern through attentiveness to God’s ongoing work. Together they explore: Why the church may be entering a “dark night” rather than a season of revival How modern culture has shaped the church’s assumptions about growth and success The practices of dwelling, discerning, and exploring in local communities Why relationships—not programs or expertise—are central to faithful leadership Rethinking church buildings, space, and imagination in a changing world Recovering attentiveness to God’s agency in a culture shaped by technique and control Alan Roxburgh has served as a pastor, seminary professor, consultant and mentor in leadership and missional transformation. He lives with his wife and extended family in Vancouver, British Columbia. He has writing 15 books on mission, leadership and culture change. In his work he addresses questions of church and mission convinced the Spirit is fermenting a movement of God's people that can’t be contained in narratives of renewal, reform or fixing existing systems. His latest books are: Leadership, God’s Agency and Disruptions (with Mark au Branson) and Forming Communities of Hope in the Great Unraveling (with Roy Searle).   Mentioned Resources: 🌐 Alan's Website: https://alanroxburgh.com/ 📖 Alan's Book: Forming Communities of Hope in the Great Unraveling 🎧 Episodes Referenced: Andrew Root 🎧 Episodes Referenced: J. Michael Jordan    Connect with Future Christian: 📱 Future Christian Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/futurechristianpod/ 📱 Martha's Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/martha_tatarnic/ 📱 Loren's Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/richmondljr/ 🟧 Future Christian Substack: https://futurechristian.substack.com/   Supporting Sponsors: Free Range Priest Helping clergy and congregations reimagine ministry in the digital age.  Martha's New Book! Anne Boleyn: Reputation, Revolution, Religion, and the Queen Who Changed History Available for Pre-order now!   Future Christian Team: Loren Richmond Jr. – Host & Executive Producer Martha Tatarnic – Co-Host Dennis Sanders – Producer   SEO / Keywords Alan Roxburgh, missional church movement, communities of hope, great unraveling church, church leadership in uncertainty, post-Christendom church, missional leadership, Jeremiah and exile theology, dark night of the church, church decline and renewal, future of the church, local church practices, dwelling discerning exploring, neighborhood ministry, church and modernity critique, individualism and church culture, reimagining church spaces, ecclesiology and mission, spiritual practices and leadership, God’s agency in the church, Western church crisis, adaptive vs faithful leadership, Future Christian Podcast, Loren Richmond Jr.    

What does it mean to center the life of the church around the table—and why has the Eucharist so often been pushed to the margins? In this episode, Loren Richmond Jr. talks with Rev. Dr. Jarrod Longbons about cultivating a Eucharistic movement in the modern church. Drawing from theology, liturgical practice, and pastoral experience, Longbons invites leaders to reconsider how worship has shifted toward production and consumption—and what is lost when the table is no longer central. The conversation explores how the Eucharist forms identity over time, not just as a ritual but as a way of life. Rather than seeing communion as an add-on or symbolic moment, they discuss how it can become the organizing center of worship, shaping how communities understand grace, presence, and participation. They also reflect on how modern church models often prioritize content over formation, why repetition and liturgy still matter, and what it might look like to reorient church life around shared practices that cultivate deeper community and spiritual depth. Together they explore: Why the Eucharist has been marginalized in modern worship The difference between consumer-driven worship and Eucharistic formation How the table shapes identity, community, and mission The formative power of liturgy and repetition What it looks like to re-center worship around communion Practical ways church leaders can begin cultivating a Eucharistic culture   Rev. Dr. Jarrod Longbons is the Senior Minister of Peachtree Christian Church, where he seeks to share the heart of Christ in the heart of the city. A pastor-theologian and gifted communicator, he brings together thoughtful biblical interpretation, pastoral warmth, and a passion for connecting faith with contemporary life. Jarrod is deeply committed to discipleship, worship, and cultivating a church that serves both its members and the wider community. His ministry is shaped by a love for teaching, the arts, and the formation of leaders for the Church. He and his family consider it a joy to walk alongside the people of Peachtree in God’s ongoing work of renewal and hope. Outside of ministry, he enjoys Brazilian Jiu Jitsu, Golf, and Fly Fishing.    Mentioned Resources: 🌐 Jarrod's Church Website: Peachtree Christian Church 🎧 Jarrod's Podcast: Complex Creatures 🎧 Jarrod's Podcast: Who Watches the Re-Watchers 🟧 Jarrod's Substack: keepafire.substack.com 🎧 Episodes Referenced: Andrew Root 🎧 Episodes Referenced: Ted Smith 🎧 Episodes Referenced: DOC Roundtable 🎧 Episodes Referenced: Ryan Burge    Connect with Future Christian: 📱 Future Christian Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/futurechristianpod/ 📱 Martha's Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/martha_tatarnic/ 📱 Loren's Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/richmondljr/ 🟧 Future Christian Substack: https://futurechristian.substack.com/   Supporting Sponsors: Free Range Priest Helping clergy and congregations reimagine ministry in the digital age.  Martha's New Book! Anne Boleyn: Reputation, Revolution, Religion, and the Queen Who Changed History Available for Pre-order now!   Future Christian Team: Loren Richmond Jr. – Host & Executive Producer Martha Tatarnic – Co-Host Dennis Sanders – Producer   SEO / Keywords Eucharistic movement, Eucharist theology, communion centrality, Lord’s Supper, sacramental theology, liturgical renewal, table-centered worship, worship formation, consumer vs formative worship, church worship practices, liturgy and repetition, embodied faith, communal worship, spiritual formation church, re-centering the church, historic Christian practices, future of the church, church leadership and worship, Jarrod Longbons, Future Christian Podcast, Loren Richmond Jr.    

What does it really take to engage younger generations—and why do so many of our assumptions about them fall short? In this episode, Loren Richmond Jr. talks with sociologist Dr. Josh Packard about his book Faithful Futures and what churches often misunderstand about Gen Z and Gen Alpha. Drawing from years of research, Packard challenges the tendency to reduce younger generations to stereotypes and instead invites leaders to approach them with curiosity, humility, and a posture of listening. The conversation explores how rapid cultural change has created a “fast and slow” dynamic in young people’s lives, why relationships—not institutions—are now the primary source of trust, and how churches can rethink formation beyond simply passing down right answers.  They also discuss the importance of communal worship in an age of loneliness, the role of sacred space, and how young people are constructing “micro-narratives” of meaning in a world where institutional authority is often questioned. Together they explore: Why generational stereotypes fail—and what to focus on instead The “fast and slow” reality of growing up today How trust has shifted from institutions to relationships Why listening matters more than giving answers The role of communal worship and sacred space in a lonely world How young people build meaning through “micro-narratives”   Dr. Josh Packard is the co-founder of Future of Faith and one of the foremost experts in the spiritual lives of American youth and religious trends in the United States. He is an accomplished researcher in the sociology of religion and new forms of religious expression. He is a frequent keynote speaker and acts as an advisor and board member to a number of faith-based organizations. Josh has authored numerous books and articles in both popular and academic outlets including the recently released Faithful Futures: Sacred Tools for Engaging Younger Generations. Previous books include Church Refugees: Sociologists reveal why people are DONE with church but not their faith and Meaning Making: 8 Values That Drive America’s Newest Generations.  Josh was previously a professor, founding Executive Director of Springtide Research Institute and Executive Vice President of Strategy with the National Catholic Educational Association.  He has a BA in English from Texas Lutheran University and Ph.D. in Sociology from Vanderbilt University. He lives in Greeley, Colorado with his wife and teenage son where he is quickly becoming the third best golfer in his family of three.     Mentioned Resources: 🌐 Josh's Website: Future of Faith 📖 Josh's Book: Faithful Futures 📱Twitter/X: @drjoshpackard 📱 LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/joshpackard/ 🎧 Episodes Referenced: Andrew Root 🎧 Episodes Referenced: Megan Bissell 🎧 Episodes Referenced: Mike Orr 🎧 Episodes Referenced: Ryan Burge     Connect with Future Christian: 📱 Future Christian Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/futurechristianpod/ 📱 Martha's Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/martha_tatarnic/ 📱 Loren's Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/richmondljr/ 🟧 Future Christian Substack: https://futurechristian.substack.com/   Supporting Sponsors: Free Range Priest Helping clergy and congregations reimagine ministry in the digital age.  Martha's New Book! Anne Boleyn: Reputation, Revolution, Religion, and the Queen Who Changed History Available for Pre-order now!   Future Christian Team: Loren Richmond Jr. – Host & Executive Producer Martha Tatarnic – Co-Host Dennis Sanders – Producer     SEO / Keywords contemporary worship, praise and worship history, worship wars, worship industry, church music theology, hymns vs modern worship, liturgy renewal, lament in worship, worship leader burnout, secular songs in church, worship culture, evangelical worship music, mainline worship styles, Future Christian Podcast, Loren Richmond Jr.    

What does it mean to live faithfully in a world that rewards conformity—and why might the Christian life feel “weird”? In this episode, Martha Tatarnic talks with Aaron Miller about what it looks like to follow Jesus in a way that resists cultural expectations and embraces a more intentional, embodied faith. Drawing from his ministry experience and writing, Aaron reframes “weird” not as something to avoid, but as a sign of living in alignment with the kingdom of God. The conversation explores how practices like prayer, Scripture, lament, and worship form disciples who can live with clarity and conviction in a complex world. Aaron also highlights the role of imagination in the Christian life—both as a response to cultural challenges and as a way to envision communities shaped by hope. They discuss the importance of formation over performance, the tension between cultural relevance and faithfulness, and how local churches can cultivate rhythms that sustain authentic discipleship. Together they explore: Why the Christian life can feel “weird”—and why that’s not a problem The role of spiritual practices in forming faithful disciples How imagination shapes both personal faith and church life The importance of lament, presence, and embodied faith What it looks like to live with intentionality in everyday life Rev Aaron Miller is the congregational minister at University Hill United Church, and the UCC campus minister at the University of British Columbia. He is the author of Witnesses of These Things: Faithfulness Here and Now, and Weird in the World: Living Towards the World God Wants. Aaron lives in Vancouver with his wife, Kate, and their teenaged sons.    Mentioned Resources: 🌐 Aaron's Website:  📖 Aaron's Book: Weird in the World 📖 Aaron's Book: Witnesses of These Things 🎧 Episodes Referenced: Andy Root 🎧 Episodes Referenced: Kara Root   Connect with Future Christian: 📱 Future Christian Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/futurechristianpod/ 📱 Martha's Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/martha_tatarnic/ 📱 Loren's Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/richmondljr/ 🟧 Future Christian Substack: https://futurechristian.substack.com/   Supporting Sponsors: Free Range Priest Helping clergy and congregations reimagine ministry in the digital age.  Martha's New Book! Anne Boleyn: Reputation, Revolution, Religion, and the Queen Who Changed History Available for Pre-order now!   Future Christian Team: Loren Richmond Jr. – Host & Executive Producer Martha Tatarnic – Co-Host Dennis Sanders – Producer   SEO / Keywords Aaron Miller, Martha Tatarnic, Christian discipleship, spiritual formation, living weird for Jesus, Christian practices, prayer and Scripture, lament and worship, imagination and faith, Sermon on the Mount, Psalm 34, practicing the way, church leadership formation, mainline church, authentic faith, embodied discipleship, Future Christian Podcast  

What can sports rivalries and cultural moments reveal about leadership, character, and the values that shape us? In this episode, Loren and Martha take a conversational turn that begins with sports, competition, and cultural dynamics—but quickly opens into deeper reflections on character, leadership, and community. What starts as a lighthearted discussion about sports rivalries between Canada and the United States becomes a thoughtful conversation about identity, integrity, and how competition reveals the values that lie beneath the surface of our culture. Along the way, they reflect on how rivalry, loyalty, and belonging shape the way communities see themselves and others. The conversation also explores the ways everyday cultural moments—whether sports, media, or shared public experiences—can open surprising opportunities to think more deeply about leadership, character, and the habits that form us. This episode offers a reflective and engaging conversation about competition, identity, and the cultural stories that shape the way we live and lead. Together they explore: How sports rivalries shape identity and community What competition reveals about character and leadership The cultural narratives embedded in sports and public life The tension between rivalry, belonging, and respect How everyday cultural moments can open deeper conversations about values and faith Mentioned Resources: 🎧 Episodes Referenced: Bill Harrison 🎧 Episodes Referenced: Arianna Molloy   Connect with Future Christian: 📱 Future Christian Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/futurechristianpod/ 📱 Martha's Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/martha_tatarnic/ 📱 Loren's Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/richmondljr/ 🟧 Future Christian Substack: https://futurechristian.substack.com/   Supporting Sponsors: Free Range Priest Helping clergy and congregations reimagine ministry in the digital age.  Martha's New Book! Anne Boleyn: Reputation, Revolution, Religion, and the Queen Who Changed History Available for Pre-order now!   Future Christian Team: Loren Richmond Jr. – Host & Executive Producer Martha Tatarnic – Co-Host Dennis Sanders – Producer   SEO / Keywords Martha Tatarnic, sports and faith, leadership and character, competition and culture, Christian leadership formation, church leadership conversations, cultural analysis and faith, community and identity, discipleship and culture, Future Christian Podcast, Loren Richmond Jr., faith and culture discussion

What does it mean to belong to God when the structures of faith you once trusted begin to fall apart? In this episode, Loren talks with Kara Root—pastor, spiritual director, and author of The Deepest Belonging and A Pilgrimage into Letting Go—about faith, loss, and the surprising ways God rebuilds belief when certainty collapses. Drawing from her own journey through the unraveling of a ministry-centered evangelical world, Kara reflects on how faith can be rebuilt from the ground up through pilgrimage, prayer, and honest encounters with suffering. The conversation explores the difference between inherited faith and lived faith, and why belonging to God often emerges most clearly when our illusions fall away. They also discuss the role of Sabbath rest, spiritual practices, and pastoral leadership in helping congregations navigate seasons of change and uncertainty. This episode offers a reflective and hopeful conversation about letting go of what no longer holds—and discovering the deeper belonging God offers in its place. Together they explore: How faith can be rebuilt after the collapse of inherited religious systems The spiritual significance of pilgrimage and letting go Why belonging to God is deeper than belonging to institutions The role of Sabbath, prayer, and spiritual practices in sustaining faith How pastors and churches navigate seasons of change and uncertainty   Rev. Kara K. Root is the author of The Deepest Belonging (2021), Receiving This Life: (2023), and A Pilgrimage Into Letting Go (2025, with husband, Andy). ​Pastor of Lake Nokomis Presbyterian Church in Minneapolis, MN, a Christian community that shapes its life around worship, hospitality and Sabbath rest, she is a trained Spiritual Director and Certified Educator in the PCUSA.  Being mom to two intrepid young adults (and a goofy dog), and wife and proofreader to a wily theologian, spices up her vocational calling and keeps her fully immersed in life.   She has written for Sparkhouse, Working Preacher, Christian Century, Christianity Today, Faith and Leadership, Patheos and more. Kara leads retreats and workshops on sabbath rest, prayer practices, and church leadership and transformation.  ​​Kara and her husband, Andy, lead workshops and speak together through Root Creative, inc.   Mentioned Resources: 🌐 Kara's Website: https://www.karakroot.com/about.html#/ 📖 Kara's Book: A Pilgrimage into Letting Go 🎧 Episodes Referenced: Andy Root 🎧 Episodes Referenced: Kelsey McGinnis   Connect with Future Christian: 📱 Future Christian Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/futurechristianpod/ 📱 Martha's Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/martha_tatarnic/ 📱 Loren's Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/richmondljr/ 🟧 Future Christian Substack: https://futurechristian.substack.com/   Supporting Sponsors: Free Range Priest Helping clergy and congregations reimagine ministry in the digital age.  Martha's New Book! Anne Boleyn: Reputation, Revolution, Religion, and the Queen Who Changed History Available for Pre-order now!   Future Christian Team: Loren Richmond Jr. – Host & Executive Producer Martha Tatarnic – Co-Host Dennis Sanders – Producer   SEO / Keywords Kara Root, The Deepest Belonging, A Pilgrimage into Letting Go, faith after deconstruction, spiritual pilgrimage, Sabbath practices, spiritual formation, rebuilding faith, pastoral leadership, church and doubt, belonging to God, Christian spiritual practices, evangelicalism and faith transition, Future Christian Podcast, Loren Richmond Jr.

How did contemporary praise and worship develop—and who is shaping what the church sings today? In this episode, Loren talks with Kelsey McGinnis to explore the evolution of modern worship, the lingering effects of the “worship wars,” and the growing influence of the worship industry on local congregations. They discuss how large-scale production and publishing networks shape song selection and theology, the unseen pressures facing worship leaders, and what healthy support actually looks like in a local church. The conversation also revisits the hymns versus modern worship debate, the renewed interest in liturgy, and whether lament, silence, and stillness have space in contemporary services. This episode offers a thoughtful, grounded look at how what we sing forms what we believe—and how churches might lead worship more intentionally in the years ahead. Together they explore: The rise of contemporary praise and worship How the worship industry shapes theology and song selection The pressures facing today’s worship leaders Hymns, liturgy, and the place of lament Whether secular songs belong in church Kelsey McGinnis is the worship correspondent for Christianity Today. She holds a PhD in musicology and teaches music and theology at Grand View University in Des Moines, Iowa, and writes broadly on Christian music and the intersection of American Christianity and popular culture. Kelsey is a coauthor of the book The Myth of Good Christian Parenting and the author of a forthcoming book about Christian diet and wellness culture.  She lives in central Iowa with her husband and three children.   Mentioned Resources: 🌐 Kelsey's Website: https://www.kkramermcginnis.com/ 📖 Kelsey's Book: The Myth of Good Christian Parenting 🟧 Kelsey's Substack: https://kkramermcginnis.substack.com/ 📱 Instagram: @kelseykmcginnis 🎧 Episodes Referenced: Michelle Van Loon 🎧 Episodes Referenced: Michael Huerter 🎧 Episodes Referenced: Robert Schuller   Connect with Future Christian: 📱 Future Christian Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/futurechristianpod/ 📱 Martha's Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/martha_tatarnic/ 📱 Loren's Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/richmondljr/ 🟧 Future Christian Substack: https://futurechristian.substack.com/   Supporting Sponsors: Free Range Priest Helping clergy and congregations reimagine ministry in the digital age.  Martha's New Book! Anne Boleyn: Reputation, Revolution, Religion, and the Queen Who Changed History Available for Pre-order now!   Future Christian Team: Loren Richmond Jr. – Host & Executive Producer Martha Tatarnic – Co-Host Dennis Sanders – Producer     SEO / Keywords contemporary worship, praise and worship history, worship wars, worship industry, church music theology, hymns vs modern worship, liturgy renewal, lament in worship, worship leader burnout, secular songs in church, worship culture, evangelical worship music, mainline worship styles, Future Christian Podcast, Loren Richmond Jr.    

What does Gen Z really believe about God? And what are they actually asking? In this episode, Loren talks with Tanita Tualla Maddox, National Director for Generational Impact at Young Life and author of What Gen Z Really Wants to Know About God. Tanita offers a compelling case for cultural apologetics—understanding the lens through which Gen Z asks timeless questions like “Is God good?” She also challenges churches to move from abstract teaching to concrete spiritual practices that help young people live out their faith in real relationships. Together they explore: Why headlines about Gen Z “revival” can be misleading The reality of low trust culture—and how to earn it How Gen Z defines acceptance, belonging, and safety Why evangelism must go beyond “just invite your friends to church” Practical ways churches can disciple students in a post-Christian world The importance of teaching young people to articulate their own testimony Why isolating teenagers from the broader church might be a mistake Tanita Tualla Maddox (DMin, Phoenix Seminary) is the national director for generational impact for Young Life and serves as an associate regional director in the Mountain West Young Life region. With an expertise in contextualizing the gospel for Gen Z, Tanita has been featured on The Holy Post podcast and has been published in The Great Commission Research Journal, the Journal of Youth and Theology, and more. She has served as Young Life leader with adolescents for over twenty-six years and serves as a volunteer Young Life leader in her local community. She lives in Spokane, Washington, with her husband and two children.   Mentioned Resources: 🌐 Her Website: https://tanitamaddox.com/ 📖 Her Book: https://www.ivpress.com/what-gen-z-really-wants-to-know-about-god 📱 Instagram & FB: @drtanitamaddox 🎧 Episodes Referenced: Mike Orr   Connect with Future Christian: 📱 Future Christian Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/futurechristianpod/ 📱 Martha's Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/martha_tatarnic/ 📱 Loren's Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/richmondljr/ 🟧 Future Christian Substack: https://futurechristian.substack.com/   Supporting Sponsors: Free Range Priest Helping clergy and congregations reimagine ministry in the digital age.  Martha's New Book! Anne Boleyn: Reputation, Revolution, Religion, and the Queen Who Changed History Available for Pre-order now!   Future Christian Team: Loren Richmond Jr. – Host & Executive Producer Martha Tatarnic – Co-Host Dennis Sanders – Producer     SEO / Keywords Tanita Tualla Maddox, Gen Z faith, What Gen Z Really Wants to Know About God, Young Life, generational ministry, youth ministry strategy, cultural apologetics, post-Christian culture, evangelism training, Gen Z and church, belonging and acceptance, discipling teenagers, low trust culture, Future Christian Podcast, Loren Richmond Jr.  

What happens when pastors care for everyone else—but neglect their own soul? In this episode, Loren talks with Bill and Kristi Gaultiere, founders of Soul Shepherding and co-authors of Deeply Loved: Receiving and Reflecting God’s Great Empathy for You. Together, they explore why emotional health is not optional for Christian leaders—and why empathy begins with receiving God’s love, not just offering it to others. Drawing from decades of experience in psychology, spiritual direction, and ministry leadership, the Gaultieres unpack the difference between empathy and indulgence, how unaddressed shame leads to burnout, and why pastors must have a safe place to be listened to and prayed for. They also discuss: Why emotions are gifts—but terrible masters The danger of processing unresolved wounds from the platform Burnout warning signs every pastor should recognize Compassion fatigue and isolation in ministry Why leaders must receive pastoral care, not just provide it This conversation is a candid and practical guide for church leaders who want their ministry to flow from healing and authenticity rather than exhaustion and performance.   Bill is a psychologist (PhD) and ordained pastor and Kristi is a licensed professional counselor (PsyD). Together they lead Soul Shepherding, which is a nonprofit ministry to help pastors, leaders, churches, and others to go deeper with Jesus in emotional health and loving leadership. They lead immersive retreats that integrate Jesus-centered psychology and spiritual formation. Participants have the option to earn a Certificate in Spiritual Direction to improve their relationship skills and earn side income as a spiritual director or coach. They are authors of a number of soul care books, including Journey of the Soul, which was #1 on Amazon in Christian Counseling, and Healthy Feelings, Thriving Faith. Their newest book is Deeply Loved: Receiving and Reflecting God’s Great Empathy for You. Bill and Kristi have provided over 100,000 hours helping clients in therapy or spiritual direction. They were also personally mentored by Dallas and Jane Willard for many years. They have developed a unique approach to spiritual direction that is informed by their Jesus-centered psychology. Their two-year Certificate in Spiritual Direction training program is a hybrid of in person retreats and online training (or it can be completed 100% online) and currently has over 150 students participating.    Mentioned Resources: 🌐 Their Website: www.soulshepherding.org 🌐 YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/user/billgaultiere 📱 Instagram & FB: @soulshepherding 🎧 Episodes Referenced: Chuck DeGroat 🎧 Episodes Referenced: Josh Packard 🎧 Episodes Referenced: Tara Beth Leach   Connect with Future Christian: 📱 Future Christian Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/futurechristianpod/ 📱 Martha's Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/martha_tatarnic/ 📱 Loren's Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/richmondljr/ 🟧 Future Christian Substack: https://futurechristian.substack.com/   Supporting Sponsors: Free Range Priest Helping clergy and congregations reimagine ministry in the digital age.  Martha's New Book! Anne Boleyn: Reputation, Revolution, Religion, and the Queen Who Changed History Available for Pre-order now!   Future Christian Team: Loren Richmond Jr. – Host & Executive Producer Martha Tatarnic – Co-Host Dennis Sanders – Producer     SEO / Keywords Bill Gaultiere, Kristi Gaultiere, Soul Shepherding, Deeply Loved book, empathy in ministry, pastoral burnout, emotional health for pastors, compassion fatigue, spiritual direction training, church leadership formation, sustainable ministry, shame and leadership, Future Christian Podcast, Loren Richmond Jr.

Why should we still be planting churches—and what should church planting look like in a rapidly changing world? In this episode, Loren is joined by Len Tang, Director of the Church Planting Initiative at Fuller Seminary, for a wide-ranging conversation about mission, formation, and the future of church planting. Drawing on his experience planting churches and training planters across diverse contexts, Len reframes church planting as a normal part of the church’s life cycle—one that includes birth, growth, reproduction, and sometimes faithful endings. The conversation explores why growth alone is an inadequate metric, how global migration is reshaping mission fields, and why new expressions of church must be deeply contextual, diverse, and disciple-centered. Loren and Len also discuss the emotional and spiritual realities of church planting: grief, resilience, failure, and the importance of practices like Sabbath, lament, and community support. Rather than treating church planting as a silver bullet, the episode makes the case for forming leaders with character, humility, and a deep grounding in the way of Jesus. This is a thoughtful conversation for pastors, planters, denominational leaders, and anyone discerning how the church can participate faithfully in God’s mission today. Topics Include Why church planting is a normal—and finite—part of church life Growth, reproduction, and the reality of church endings Global migration and new mission fields close to home Moving beyond one-size-fits-all planting models Bivocational ministry, social entrepreneurship, and sustainability Character over charisma in church planting leadership Grief, failure, and resilience in ministry Discipleship as the true measure of fruitfulness   Len Tang is the Director of the Church Planting Initiative at Fuller Seminary, and has planted two churches: Cedar Creek Church in Sherwood, Oregon, and Missio Community Church in Pasadena, CA. He received a B.S. in Electrical Engineering and Computer Science from UC Berkeley and an MDiv from Fuller Seminary. He is married to Amy and they have three young adult boys, a cat, and an electric motorcycle.   Mentioned Resources: 🌐 Fuller Website: churchplanting.fuller.edu 🌐 Website: Faithful Resistance.com 📱 Len's Instagram & FB: @len.tang 🎧 Episodes Referenced: Tim Morey 🎧 Episodes Referenced: Nick Warnes 🎧 Episodes Referenced: Dwight Zscheile   Connect with Future Christian: 📱 Future Christian Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/futurechristianpod/ 📱 Martha's Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/martha_tatarnic/ 📱 Loren's Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/richmondljr/ 🟧 Future Christian Substack: https://futurechristian.substack.com/   Supporting Sponsors: Free Range Priest Helping clergy and congregations reimagine ministry in the digital age.  Martha's New Book! Anne Boleyn: Reputation, Revolution, Religion, and the Queen Who Changed History Available for Pre-order now!   Future Christian Team: Loren Richmond Jr. – Host & Executive Producer Martha Tatarnic – Co-Host Dennis Sanders – Producer     SEO / Keywords Len Tang, church planting, Fuller Seminary church planting initiative, missional church, discipleship and mission, global migration and church, bivocational ministry, church growth vs faithfulness, church planter formation, character over charisma, failure in ministry, Future Christian Podcast, Loren Richmond Jr.        

What if the future of the church isn’t found in choosing between old and new—but in learning how both can flourish together? In this episode, Loren is joined by Dwight Zscheile and Blair Pogue for a wide-ranging conversation about their book, Embracing the Mixed Ecology, and what it means to form Christian communities in a changing world. Drawing on their experience in congregational leadership, theological education, and diocesan innovation, Dwight and Blair make the case for a mixed ecology of church—where inherited congregations, new communities, fresh expressions, digital ministry, and lay-led initiatives work together to embody the gospel. Rather than dismissing institutions or chasing quick fixes, the conversation emphasizes discipleship, listening to neighbors, and adapting church forms without abandoning the substance of the faith. The episode also explores why activism alone cannot sustain Christian identity, how polarization distorts formation, and why the church must recover practices that shape people into a distinct way of life centered on Jesus.   Topics Include What a “mixed ecology” of church actually means Why inherited churches still matter—and where they fall short Fresh expressions, microchurches, and lay-led ministry Discipleship vs. political or cultural substitutes for faith Listening as the starting point for mission Digital ministry as doorway, not replacement When and how churches may need to end faithfully The Rev. Dwight Zscheile, Ph.D. is professor of congregational mission and leadership at Luther Seminary in St. Paul, Minnesota. He is author of Embracing the Mixed Ecology: Inherited and New Forms of Christian Community Flourishing Together (with Blair Pogue, Seabury Books 2025), Leading Faithful Innovation: Following God into a Hopeful Future (with Michael Binder and Tessa Pinkstaff, Fortress, 2023), Participating in God’s Mission: A Theological Missiology for the Church in America (with Craig Van Gelder, Eerdmans, 2018), The Agile Church: Spirit-Led Innovation in an Uncertain Age (Morehouse Publishing, 2014), People of the Way: Renewing Episcopal Identity (Morehouse Publishing, 2012) and The Missional Church in Perspective: Mapping Trends and Shaping the Conversation (with Craig Van Gelder, Baker Academic 2011), editor of Cultivating Sent Communities: Missional Spiritual Formation (Eerdmans, 2012) and co-editor (with Ed Olsworth-Peter) of The Starter’s Way: Leading New Contextual Christian Communities (Church Publishing, 2025). A graduate of Stanford University (BA), Yale University (MDiv) and Luther Seminary (PhD, Congregational Mission and Leadership), he has served congregations in Minnesota and Virginia. Dwight’s experience growing up in a secular home in California has shaped his commitment to helping the church cultivate Christian community with neighbors in today’s changing world. The Rev. Canon Blair Pogue is the Canon for Innovation for the Episcopal Church in Minnesota. In that capacity she helps congregations all over the state go deeper in their practice of the Christian faith and rethink how they form disciples and engage the communities surrounding their church. She also runs learning communities for Episcopalians wanting to learn how to form Christian community with neighbors where they live, work, and play. Before joining Bishop Craig Loya’s staff she was the rector of St. Matthew’s Episcopal Church in St. Paul for 16 ½ years, and before that she served two churches in the Diocese of Virginia, with a special focus on Christian formation. She is a graduate of Luther Seminary (D.Min in Congregational Mission and Leadership), Yale Divinity School (M.Div), and Whitman College (B.A.).   Mentioned Resources: 📖 Their Book: Embracing the Mixed Ecology 🌐 Dwight's Website: https://www.dwightzscheile.com/ 📧 Blair's Email: [email protected] 🎧 Episodes Referenced: William Harrison   Connect with Future Christian: 📱 Future Christian Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/futurechristianpod/ 📱 Martha's Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/martha_tatarnic/ 📱 Loren's Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/richmondljr/ 🟧 Future Christian Substack: https://futurechristian.substack.com/   Supporting Sponsors: Free Range Priest Helping clergy and congregations reimagine ministry in the digital age.    Future Christian Team: Loren Richmond Jr. – Host & Executive Producer Martha Tatarnic – Co-Host Dennis Sanders – Producer     SEO / Keywords Dwight Zscheile, Blair Pogue, Embracing the Mixed Ecology, mixed ecology church, fresh expressions, inherited church, church innovation, post-Christian ministry, discipleship formation, lay-led ministry, digital church, future of the church, Future Christian Podcast, Loren Richmond Jr.    

What does it mean to remain faithful to a calling when the church itself says no? In this episode, Martha Tatarnic is joined by Rose Hudson‑Wilkin, Bishop of Dover, for a wide-ranging conversation rooted in her memoir, The Girl from Montego Bay. Drawing on her journey from a childhood in Jamaica to episcopal leadership in the Church of England, Bishop Rose reflects on poverty, belonging, the discovery of God’s love, and the clarity of call that sustained her through repeated rejection. She speaks candidly about racism in the church, the pressure of being “the first,” and the cost of leadership when institutions lag behind the Spirit. The conversation also explores motherhood and ministry, Scripture as a lived practice, faith in public life, and what Bishop Rose believes the church most urgently needs now: confident Christians who live their faith beyond the church door. This episode offers pastoral wisdom and spiritual encouragement for anyone discerning vocation, navigating institutional resistance, or seeking a faith marked by courage, joy, and love. Topics Include Discerning a call without visible role models Growing up poor without growing up diminished Scripture as a source of belonging and confidence Racism, representation, and leadership pressure Motherhood and ministry as shared vocation Why the church needs confident Christians now Faith lived publicly, not defensively   The Rt Revd Rose Hudson-Wilkin, CD, MBE was born and raised in Jamaica before coming to the UK to study. Ordained to the priesthood in 1994, in 2007 she was appointed as a Chaplain to Her Late Majesty the Queen and in 2010, became the first female appointed to the position of the 79th Chaplain to the Speaker of the House of Commons. In November 2019 she was consecrated as a Bishop in the Church of England and installed in Canterbury Cathedral. In May 2023, Bishop Rose was one of three female bishops to make history by playing a part in the coronation of King Charles lll. Her autobiography, ‘The Girl From Montego Bay’ was published in January 2025. Bishop Rose is in wide demand as a preacher and speaker undertaking engagements both nationally and internationally, as well as making regular appearances in the media.     Mentioned Resources: 📖 Her Book: The Girl from Montego Bay 🌐 Facebook: Bishop of Dover 🎧 Audiobook: Listen for Free   Connect with Future Christian: 📱 Future Christian Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/futurechristianpod/ 📱 Martha's Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/martha_tatarnic/ 📱 Loren's Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/richmondljr/ 🟧 Future Christian Substack: https://futurechristian.substack.com/   Supporting Sponsors: Free Range Priest Helping clergy and congregations reimagine ministry in the digital age.    Future Christian Team: Loren Richmond Jr. – Host & Executive Producer Martha Tatarnic – Co-Host Dennis Sanders – Producer     SEO / Keywords Rose Hudson-Wilkin, Bishop of Dover, Bishop in Canterbury, The Girl from Montego Bay, women in ministry, Black church leadership, calling and vocation, racism in the church, Church of England, confident Christians, faith and public life, memoir theology, Future Christian Podcast, Martha Tatarnic  

What does it mean to lead faithfully when change is unavoidable—and grief is real? In this episode, Loren is joined by Rev. Dr. Josh Hayden for a deeply honest conversation about remissioning churches and navigating loss. Drawing from his work with congregations across denominations—and from his own experience of profound personal grief—Josh reflects on what it means to embrace change that is rooted in love, sacrifice, and hope. Rather than treating renewal as a technical fix, the conversation explores remissioning as a discipleship-centered process that requires dying to old versions of ourselves so new life can emerge. Together, Loren and Josh wrestle with fear, resistance to change, the pace of transformation, and why churches often avoid the very practices that form people to live faithfully through loss.   Josh Hayden is the cofounder and copresident of `Iwa Collaborative, which helps leaders fly high and and live low as they lead through change processes in their community. He runs remissioning trainings through `Iwa Collaborative across various denominational, non-denominational, and global networks. Hayden is the senior pastor at First Baptist Church in Ashland, Virginia. He has worked and led in nonprofit organizations, church plants, and established churches. He has a doctorate in leadership and organizational change from Duke Divinity School and is the author of Sacred Hope. He serves on the boards of numerous nonprofits, and he and his family live near Richmond, Virginia.   Mentioned Resources: 📖 His Book: Remissioning Church 🌐 Website:  `Iwa Collaborative 🎧 Episode Referenced: Jack Shitama 🎧 Episode Referenced: Angela Gorrell 🎧 Episode Referenced: Andrew Root   Connect with Future Christian: 📱 Future Christian Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/futurechristianpod/ 📱 Martha's Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/martha_tatarnic/ 📱 Loren's Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/richmondljr/ 🟧 Future Christian Substack: https://futurechristian.substack.com/   Supporting Sponsors: Free Range Priest Helping clergy and congregations reimagine ministry in the digital age.    Future Christian Team: Loren Richmond Jr. – Host & Executive Producer Martha Tatarnic – Co-Host Dennis Sanders – Producer     SEO / Keywords Josh Hayden, remissioning churches, church renewal, church change, leading through grief, discipleship and change, pastoral leadership, Edwin Friedman, family systems theory, cross before resurrection, church revitalization vs remissioning, grief and faith, Future Christian Podcast, Loren Richmond Jr.  

What does it mean to worship faithfully in a digital age when church participation is no longer limited to a physical room? In this episode, Loren is joined by Michael Huerter to talk about hybrid church, online worship, and how technology is reshaping participation in Christian life. Drawing from Michael’s experience in worship leadership and digital ministry, the conversation explores how the pandemic accelerated changes already underway and why worship has always involved mediation and technology. Loren and Michael discuss common assumptions about online participation, the pressure placed on worship leaders to produce spiritual experiences, and how hybrid models can expand access without reducing worship to consumption. Rather than treating digital worship as a temporary solution or a threat to embodiment, the episode examines how churches can think more carefully about participation, formation, and accessibility in a hybrid context. Topics include: What “hybrid church” actually means Why worship has always been mediated Assumptions about online participation Pressure on worship leaders to perform Hybrid worship and accessibility This episode is a practical conversation for pastors, worship leaders, and church leaders navigating worship in a digital and hybrid age. Michael Huerter (PhD, Baylor University) is a pastor at Holmeswood Baptist Church in Kansas City, Missouri, where he leads worship and works to build community and connection. As a lifelong church musician and digital native, he is interested in engaging with and contributing to scholarship that bridges the gap between research and practical ministry.   Mentioned Resources: 📖 His Book: The Hybrid Congregation 🎧 Episode Referenced: DOC Roundtable 🎧 Episode Referenced: Andrew Draper 🎧 Episode Referenced: David Taylor 🎧 Episode Referenced: The Pressure to Perform   Connect with Future Christian: 📱 Future Christian Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/futurechristianpod/ 📱 Martha's Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/martha_tatarnic/ 📱 Loren's Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/richmondljr/ 🟧 Future Christian Substack: https://futurechristian.substack.com/   Supporting Sponsors: Free Range Priest Helping clergy and congregations reimagine ministry in the digital age.    Future Christian Team: Loren Richmond Jr. – Host & Executive Producer Martha Tatarnic – Co-Host Dennis Sanders – Producer     SEO / Keywords Hybrid church, hybrid worship, online worship, digital church, worship technology, mediated worship, worship leadership, participation in worship, embodiment and accessibility, church after COVID, future of worship, Michael Huerter, Future Christian Podcast, Loren Richmond Jr.    

What does it mean for a church to thrive when membership is declining, resources feel scarce, and the future is uncertain? In this episode, Loren is joined by Kory Wilcoxson and Erin Cash to talk about their book, Thriving Church: What We Can Learn from Faithful Congregations, and the real-world practices of congregations navigating change with courage and clarity. Drawing from years of congregational research and ministry experience, the conversation explores how churches can remain faithful to their calling without being governed by fear, metrics, or nostalgia. Kory and Erin reflect on the importance of grounding ministry in Scripture, revisiting mission and vision regularly, and honoring the past without being constrained by it. Rather than equating thriving with growth, the episode makes a case for faithfulness, imagination, and adaptability—especially in mainline Protestant contexts where decline is often assumed to be the whole story. Topics include: Why thriving is not the same as numerical growth How fear distorts mission—and how clarity restores it What it looks like for a church to be both “dying” and thriving Honoring history without letting it become a barrier to change Why Scripture still matters deeply for faithful congregations This episode is a grounded, hopeful conversation for pastors and church leaders discerning how to lead well in seasons of transition.   Rev. Dr. Kory Wilcoxson has served as the Senior Pastor of Crestwood Christian Church in Lexington, Ky., since 2009. Prior to moving to Lexington, he served for twelve years as a pastor in the Chicago and Indianapolis areas. Wilcoxson holds degrees from Indiana University ((BA in Speech Communication), Ohio University (MA in Interpersonal Communication), Christian Theological Seminary (Master of Divinity), and Lexington Theological Seminary (Doctor of Divinity). Wilcoxson has served in a number of leadership positions within the Kentucky Region and Christian Church (Disciples of Christ) denomination, including moderator of the Kentucky Regional Board, chair of the Board of Directors for the Council on Christian Unity (now the Christian Unity and Interfaith Ministry), and member of the Board of Directors for Disciples Home Missions. Wilcoxson is also the executive director of Compassionate Lexington, an organization which seeks to promote the core value of compassion through concrete action. Wilcoxson has two adult daughters: Sydney and Molly. He enjoys reading, running, and rooting on his beloved Cincinnati Reds.   Erin Cash is the Project Director for the Thriving Congregations Project at Lexington Theological Seminary.  Prior to this role, Erin served as Director of Admissions at LTS for over 8 years.  She is a graduate of Greenville University in Greenville, IL, Candler School of Theology at Emory University in Atlanta, GA, and Lexington Theological Seminary in Lexington, KY. Ordained in 2006, Erin enjoys the opportunities she has to serve in pulpit supply, guest lectures, and as a lay leader in her own congregation. Erin has served as Moderator for the Christian Church In Kentucky, as co-chair of the Local Arrangements team for Regional Assembly, and as co-chair for the Local Arrangements Team of the General Assembly. She also serves as Kentucky’s representative to the General Board, chairing the General Assembly Planning Committee there.  Erin is deeply passionate about the work of the local and the Regional church. She is co-author of the book Thriving Church: What You Can Learn from Faithful Congregations now available from Chalice Press. Erin is part of a clergy couple.  Her husband, Chris, is the Senior Pastor at FCC Georgetown, having formerly served North Middletown Christian Church and Oxford Christian Church.  She is mom to Ella, who is a Junior at Murray State University. In her free time, Erin enjoys baking, hiking, exploring the National Parks, baseball games, and any experience that involves a lake, pool, or the ocean.   Mentioned Resources: 📖 Their Book: Thriving Church 🎧 Episode Referenced: DOC Roundtable 🎧 Episode Referenced: Dawn Weaks 🎧 Episode Referenced: Chad Brooks   Connect with Future Christian: 📱 Future Christian Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/futurechristianpod/ 📱 Martha's Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/martha_tatarnic/ 📱 Loren's Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/richmondljr/ 🟧 Future Christian Substack: https://futurechristian.substack.com/   Supporting Sponsors: Free Range Priest Helping clergy and congregations reimagine ministry in the digital age.    Future Christian Team: Loren Richmond Jr. – Host & Executive Producer Martha Tatarnic – Co-Host Dennis Sanders – Producer     SEO / Keywords Kory Wilcoxson, Erin Cash, Thriving Church book, Thriving Congregations, mainline Protestant churches, church decline, faithful congregations, mission and vision, church leadership, pastoral leadership, Disciples of Christ, Lexington Theological Seminary, fear vs mission, Christian formation, Future Christian Podcast, Loren Richmond Jr.

In this year-end episode, Loren Richmond Jr. and Martha Tatarnic reflect on leadership, vulnerability, and the pressures pastors are carrying into the new year. They discuss how leaders navigate vulnerability in public roles, including the challenge of knowing what to share, what to hold privately, and how unresolved pain can unintentionally shape preaching and leadership. The conversation addresses the tension between honesty and responsibility, especially when leaders are still processing their own questions or struggles. Loren and Martha also talk about spiritual practices that have become increasingly important to them, particularly shared prayer and the Daily Office as grounding rhythms amid institutional anxiety and uncertainty. They reflect on how decline, fatigue, and pressure to perform can distort leadership, and why steadiness and formation matter when outcomes are unclear. Topics include: Vulnerability and disclosure in pastoral leadership The difference between honesty and oversharing Prayer and the Daily Office as stabilizing practices Institutional anxiety and leadership pressure Leading faithfully without clear outcomes 👉 Subscribe to the Future Christian Podcast for ongoing conversations about leadership, theology, and the future of the church.   Mentioned Resources: 📱 Future Christian Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/futurechristianpod/ 📱 Martha's Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/martha_tatarnic/ 📱 Loren's Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/richmondljr/ 🟧 Future Christian Substack: https://futurechristian.substack.com/   Supporting Sponsors: Free Range Priest Helping clergy and congregations reimagine ministry in the digital age.    Future Christian Team: Loren Richmond Jr. – Host & Executive Producer Martha Tatarnic – Co-Host Dennis Sanders – Producer     SEO / Keywords Loren Richmond Jr., Martha Tatarnic, church leadership, pastoral leadership, vulnerability in leadership, spiritual practices, Daily Office, prayer rhythms, Christian formation, ministry fatigue, church decline, institutional anxiety, faith and leadership, pastors and ministry leaders, Future Christian Podcast

What happens when deconstruction becomes an identity—and woundedness becomes a platform? In this episode of the Future Christian Podcast, Loren Richmond Jr. talks with pastor and writer Tara Beth Leach about the growing online ecosystem where deconstruction is monetized, anger is rewarded, and discipleship is often replaced by endless dismantling. Tara Beth shares why she believes some deconstruction is necessary (especially as faith matures), but warns that deconstruction without reconstruction can become a spiral that forms people in cynicism rather than hope. She describes how churches can respond to cultural crises without becoming “statement churches,” why partisan politics becomes idolatrous, and how practices like liturgy and theology formation can subvert polarization and re-form the Christian imagination. In this conversation, you’ll hear about: Why online deconstruction and local church reality are often very different The danger of mistaking deconstruction for discipleship How algorithms reward outrage and shape Christian formation Why Gen Z is often hungry for embodied, communal faith Liturgy and slow formation as a pastoral response in a divided age The difference between charisma and character—and what churches celebrate Supporting women in ministry: why men often “call out” people who look like them Tara Beth’s “G.R.E.A.T.” morning prayer practice and her book The Great Morning Revolution   Tara Beth Leach is a pastor, preacher of the Word, and writer. She speaks widely at conferences, retreats, and universities across the country on Women in Ministry, Church Leadership, and the call to be a Radiant Witness. She is the Senior Pastor at Good Shepherd Church in Naperville, IL and previously served at Christ Church in Oakbrook and as Senior Pastor of First Church of the Nazarene of Pasadena (”PazNaz”) in SoCal. She is a graduate of Olivet Nazarene University and Northern Theological Seminary and has authored three books, including Emboldened and Radiant Church. Tara Beth is the co-founder of Propel Ecclesia and is also the co-host of The Pastors Table podcast. She has two beautiful and rambunctious sons and has been married to the love of her life, Jeff, since 2006.   Mentioned Resources: 📱 Find Tara online @TaraBethLeach 🟧 Tara's Substack: https://substack.com/@tarabethleach 🌐 Tara's  Website: https://tarabethleach.com/ 🎧 Tara's Podcast: The Pastors Table Podcast 📖 Tara's Book: The Great Morning Revolution   Supporting Sponsors: Kokoro  Join in for heartfelt journeys that challenges the way we see ourselves, each other, and the world we share. Free Range Priest Helping clergy and congregations reimagine ministry in the digital age.    Future Christian Team: Loren Richmond Jr. – Host & Executive Producer Martha Tatarnic – Co-Host Paul Romig–Leavitt – Associate Producer Dennis Sanders – Producer Alexander Lang - Production Assistant   SEO / Keywords Tara Beth Leach, deconstruction, discipleship, church hurt, Christian formation, Gen Z church, Christian nationalism, partisan politics idolatry, pastoral leadership, preaching in a divided age, liturgy, school of theology, Christian imagination, cancel culture, call-out culture, family systems theory, Jonathan Haidt Anxious Generation, Future Christian Podcast, Loren Richmond Jr.

What would happen if churches stopped talking about money with guilt, shame, or fear—and started talking about vision, impact, and opportunity instead? In this episode, Loren interviews Jason Hanselman, Donor Relations Director and longtime pastor, missionary, church planter, and fundraiser. Jason shares why asking people for money is, surprisingly, one of his most deeply spiritual practices, and why churches must rethink the way they talk about giving if they want to cultivate generosity rather than anxiety. Together they explore: Why asking for money can be a spiritual experience for donors and leaders How childhood experiences shape our money scripts Why guilt-based “money talks” cause people to disengage How nonprofits have shifted donor expectations—and why churches must catch up How to make giving personal, relational, and meaningful Why younger adults don’t lack commitment—they lack invitation and clarity How segmenting, storytelling, and vision casting can transform a giving culture Why many churches need to simplify their structures, clarify their mission, and make compelling asks How capital campaigns can tie internal needs to external impact Jason offers honest, practical, field-tested wisdom for pastors, stewardship teams, and anyone responsible for raising money in a ministry context. If you want to cultivate a healthier, more joyful, more spiritually grounded approach to giving, this conversation will give you the tools to start.   Jason Hanselman currently serves as a Donor Relations Director with Mission Aviation Fellowship. His ministry experience spans more than 25 years. He has led in a variety of capacities in kingdom-building roles as a pastor, missionary, church planter and fundraiser. Jason was born and raised in Denver Colorado where he met his wife Mary - they’ve been married for 32 years. He holds a Bachelor’s degree in Ministry and a Master of Arts degree in Education. Jason’s goal is to partner with other Kingdom minded individuals and churches to raise enough resources to make it possible for them to fund their vision and increase their impact. Jason enjoys spending time with his family on hikes and in art museums. Jason and Mary raised their three children in Boise, Idaho: Naomi (25), Grace (23) and Solomon (20). When he has extra time, Jason is a portrait artist and an avid sports fan.   Mentioned Resources: 🌐 Jason's Website: https://fundyourvision.my.canva.site/ 📧 Jason's Email: [email protected] 🎧 Podcast Episodes Referenced: Sheryl Johnson 🎧 Podcast Episodes Referenced: JJ Peterson 🎧 Podcast Episodes Referenced: Mike Cosper 🎧 Podcast Episodes Referenced: Michelle Van Loon   Supporting Sponsors: Kokoro  Join in for heartfelt journeys that challenges the way we see ourselves, each other, and the world we share. Free Range Priest Helping clergy and congregations reimagine ministry in the digital age.    Future Christian Team: Loren Richmond Jr. – Host & Executive Producer Martha Tatarnic – Co-Host Paul Romig–Leavitt – Associate Producer Dennis Sanders – Producer Alexander Lang - Production Assistant   SEO / Keywords church fundraising, generosity, stewardship campaign, donor relations, spiritual fundraising, money and faith, church giving, nonprofit fundraising strategies, Mission Aviation Fellowship, fundraising without guilt, money scripts, younger donors church, capital campaign ideas, storytelling for churches, Loren Richmond Jr, Future Christian Podcast

What does youth ministry look like when the world — and young people — are changing faster than ever? In this in-person episode recorded at Broomfield United Methodist Church, host Loren Richmond Jr. sits down with longtime student ministries director Mike Orr to talk about faith formation, Gen Z and Gen Alpha, belonging, spiritual maturity, and what it really means to cultivate community in a post-Christian culture. With warmth, honesty, and decades of ministry experience, Mike reflects on: Highlights from the Conversation His early spiritual experiences and how actual transformation — not willpower — shaped his faith. The surprising power of belonging-first ministry for Gen Z & Gen Alpha. Why emotionally coercive youth ministry of the 90s left deep marks — and how churches can do better. How to hold space for students with radically different political or cultural views. Why youth ministry should never be about indoctrination, but about helping young people own and explore their faith. How to handle deconstruction as a natural part of spiritual growth. The crisis facing young men — and how to model a healthier version of Christian masculinity. Why the future of church isn't about producing spiritual “products,” but creating a context where real faith can flourish. The essential role parents play in forming faith, whether they realize it or not. His hope for Christianity: “Keep adding leaves to the table. There’s room for everyone.” This is a rich, grounded conversation about what actually works in youth ministry today — and what kind of church the next generation is longing for. Mike Orr has been a youth worker since the late 1990's, serving churches in Pennsylvania, Connecticut, California, and Colorado. He earned his MDiv from Fuller Theological Seminary in Pasadena, California. For over 10 years he has been the Director of Student Ministries at Broomfield United Methodist Church, located in the northern suburbs of Denver, CO. He lives with his wife and 3 dogs in Denver, CO. He has written zero books.    Mentioned Resources: 🌐 Mike's Church: Broomfield UMC 🎧 Podcast Episodes Referenced: Andrew Root 🎧 Podcast Episodes Referenced: Quiet Revival 🎧 Mike’s Podcast: Tapestry Talk   Presenting Sponsor: Phillips Seminary Join conversations that expose you to new ideas, deepen your commitment and give insights to how we can minister in a changing world.    Supporting Sponsors: Kokoro  Join in for heartfelt journeys that challenges the way we see ourselves, each other, and the world we share. Free Range Priest Helping clergy and congregations reimagine ministry in the digital age.    Future Christian Team: Loren Richmond Jr. – Host & Executive Producer Martha Tatarnic – Co-Host Paul Romig–Leavitt – Associate Producer Dennis Sanders – Producer Alexander Lang - Production Assistant   Keywords / SEO Tags youth ministry, Gen Z faith, Gen Alpha spirituality, belonging in church, student ministries, Mike Orr Broomfield UMC, Future Christian Podcast, Loren Richmond Jr, deconstruction and faith, progressive youth ministry, family faith formation, modern youth ministry challenges, Charlie Kirk Christianity, masculinity and church, spiritual formation for teens, church and political identity, Christian nationalism youth, Wesleyan sanctification, teen mental health church    

How can a historic church navigate a rapidly changing world without losing its soul? In this episode of the Future Christian Podcast, host Martha Tatarnic speaks with Archbishop Shane Parker, the newly elected Primate of the Anglican Church of Canada, about leading through transition, discernment, and hope for the church’s future. Archbishop Parker shares the story of his unexpected election, reflecting on themes of surrender, vocation, and guiding change rather than being changed by circumstance. Together, they explore what it means to lead faithfully in a post-Christian context—one where the church no longer holds cultural prominence but still holds deep spiritual purpose. They discuss: The evolving role of Christianity in Canadian society What it means to be “first among equals” in Anglican leadership The spiritual practice of personal prayer and community intercession Why some leaders are called to stay instead of move on The challenge of guiding change before it overtakes the church How to reimagine church structures for relevance and sustainability The importance of friendship, pastoral care, and gathered community in thriving congregations His hope that the future of Christianity will embody the courage, compassion, and justice of Christ Parker offers both realism and hope: that the Anglican Church can rediscover its vitality by focusing on community, worship, and service — not nostalgia or institutional weight. Archbishop Shane Parker was elected the 15th Primate of the Anglican Church of Canada on June 26, 2025, and installed on June 29, 2025, at St. Paul’s Cathedral in London, Ontario. Prior to being elected Primate, he had served as the Bishop of the Anglican Diocese of Ottawa since 2020. Before that, he was dean of the Diocese of Ottawa and rector of Christ Church Cathedral for two decades. Born to Irish parents in Edmonton, Alberta, he grew up in western Canada. He worked as a labourer for several years before embarking on undergraduate and graduate studies in sociology at Carleton University. After working as a professional sociologist, he studied theology at Saint Paul University. He was ordained as a priest in 1987 in the Diocese of Ottawa, later serving as the diocesan archdeacon.  Parker has an honorary doctorate from Saint Paul University, where he has served as a part-time professor of pastoral ministry and chairs its Anglican Studies Advisory Committee. A collection of his pastoral essays was published by Novalis in a book called Answering the Big Questions. He is a recipient of the Interfaith Ottawa Award, for devoted service to promoting interfaith dialogue and cooperation. Parker is married to Katherine Shadbolt, a lawyer specializing in family law and mediation. He has three adult children and three grandchildren. He is handy, enjoys physical work and is most comfortable in natural places.   Mentioned Resources: 🌐 The Anglican Church of Canada: https://www.anglican.ca/   Presenting Sponsor: Phillips Seminary Join conversations that expose you to new ideas, deepen your commitment and give insights to how we can minister in a changing world.    Supporting Sponsors: Kokoro  Join in for heartfelt journeys that challenges the way we see ourselves, each other, and the world we share. Free Range Priest Helping clergy and congregations reimagine ministry in the digital age.    Future Christian Team: Loren Richmond Jr. – Host & Executive Producer Martha Tatarnic – Co-Host Paul Romig–Leavitt – Associate Producer Dennis Sanders – Producer Alexander Lang - Production Assistant

What do you do when life falls apart—and you have no idea what to do next? In this heartfelt episode, Loren Richmond Jr. speaks with Rev. Dr. Angela Williams Gorrell, theologian, researcher, and author of Braving Difficult Decisions: What to Do When You Don’t Know What to Do and Always On: The Gravity of Joy. Drawing from her own experience of profound grief and transformation, Angela shares how surrender, acceptance, and spiritual practices like meditation can open us to God’s presence—even in silence. Together, they explore: The difference between grasping for control and living in surrender How to accept reality as it is without losing hope Why prayer isn’t preparation for action—it is action Learning from feelings as information, not final truth What it means to trust that nothing is wasted in God’s economy How pastors and church leaders can find peace and purpose amid decline or loss Why healing and joy are still possible, even after tragedy Whether you’re navigating personal loss or leading through uncertainty in ministry, this conversation offers honesty, theological depth, and hard-won wisdom for finding grace when life doesn’t go according to plan. Rev. Dr. Angela Williams Gorrell is a speaker, author, and consultant. She has taught at several schools including Yale and Baylor University. Media sources such as the New York Times, NPR, and the Washington Post have highlighted her research. Dr. Angela is the author of always on, The Gravity of Joy, and a new book, Braving Difficult Decisions: What to Do When You Don’t Know What to Do. She’d love to connect with you on Facebook or Instagram @angelagorrell   Mentioned Resources: 🌐 Her website: https://www.angelagorrell.com/ 📱 Her socials: @angelagorrell 📖 Her book: Braving Difficult Decisions 🎧 Episodes Referenced: Heather Thompson Day 🎧 Episodes Referenced: Martha Tatarnic   Presenting Sponsor: Phillips Seminary Join conversations that expose you to new ideas, deepen your commitment and give insights to how we can minister in a changing world.    Supporting Sponsors: Kokoro  Join in for heartfelt journeys that challenges the way we see ourselves, each other, and the world we share. Free Range Priest Helping clergy and congregations reimagine ministry in the digital age.    Future Christian Team: Loren Richmond Jr. – Host & Executive Producer Martha Tatarnic – Co-Host Paul Romig–Leavitt – Associate Producer Dennis Sanders – Producer Alexander Lang - Production Assistant   Keywords / SEO Tags Angela Williams Gorrell, Braving Difficult Decisions, Always On The Gravity of Joy, Future Christian Podcast, Loren Richmond Jr., Christian leadership, spiritual direction, surrender to God, prayer and healing, faith through suffering, meditation and Christian spirituality, grief and resilience, trauma and faith, pastoral care, nothing wasted in God’s economy, mainline church leadership, church decline and hope, progressive Christian spirituality  

What does it mean to be the Christian Church (Disciples of Christ) in a world where shared language about faith, salvation, and community seems to be slipping away? In this roundtable episode of the Future Christian Podcast, host Martha Tatarnic is joined by Loren Richmond Jr., Dennis Sanders, and David Emery for a deep conversation on the past, present, and future of the Christian Church (Disciples of Christ). Together they wrestle with what “No Creed but Christ” means today—and how this historic movement can renew its theological identity in a rapidly changing culture. This conversation explores: Why “No creed but Christ” was once revolutionary—and what it might mean now How Disciples’ emphasis on inclusion and open communion can recover deeper theological grounding The tension between progressive activism and theological clarity The role of preaching, formation, and leadership in shaping discipleship Why local churches—and not denominational structures—are key to renewal Signs of hope and new life emerging in Disciples congregations across North America If you’ve ever wondered how denominations can stay rooted in the Gospel while adapting to modern realities, this episode offers an honest, hopeful look at faithful innovation and renewal in the mainline church. Dennis Sanders is an ordained Disciples of Christ minister and lead pastor of First Christian Church in St. Paul, Minnesota.  A native of Flint, Michigan and big fan of the Detroit Tigers and Lions, Dennis is also a communications specialist for a Lutheran congregation in the Twin Cities and is the host of the Church and Main podcast, which tries to live out Karl Barth’s quote of reading the Bible and the newspaper and interpreting the news through the Bible.  Dennis lives in Minneapolis with his husband Daniel and their cats. David Emery is the Lead Pastor of Harvard Avenue Christian Church in Tulsa, OK. David is a passionate preacher, compassionate pastor, and adept leader whose understanding of the Gospel and vision for the church help our congregation fulfill our mission to live and love like Jesus. David has a reputation for growing churches, reaching new people, and transforming lives in every church he has served throughout his ministry, which includes congregations in Arkansas, Texas, and Kentucky. He holds a Master’s of Divinity from Vanderbilt. If you were to ask David what his favorite scripture passage is, he would tell you: “Whatever I’m preaching on this week!” An avid runner and multiple-marathoner, when David isn’t on the trail or in the pulpit, he enjoys spending time with his wife, Teresa, and their children and grandchildren.   Mentioned Resources: 🌐 Dennis' Church: https://fccsaintpaul.org/ 🌐 David's Church: https://hacctulsa.org/ 📖 Book Referenced: Thriving Church 🎧 Dennis Sanders Podcast: Church and Main   Presenting Sponsor: Phillips Seminary Join conversations that expose you to new ideas, deepen your commitment and give insights to how we can minister in a changing world.    Supporting Sponsors: Kokoro  Join in for heartfelt journeys that challenges the way we see ourselves, each other, and the world we share. Free Range Priest Helping clergy and congregations reimagine ministry in the digital age.    Future Christian Team: Loren Richmond Jr. – Host & Executive Producer Martha Tatarnic – Co-Host Paul Romig–Leavitt – Associate Producer Dennis Sanders – Producer Alexander Lang - Production Assistant    

What happens when the church you’ve loved becomes too small for the faith you’ve grown into? Former Anglican priest Brian E. Pearson joins host Martha Tatarnic on the Future Christian Podcast to discuss his book Talking to the Trees: A Journey Into Soul and his evolving spirituality after nearly forty years in ordained ministry. In this deeply honest conversation, Brian reflects on his transition from parish life to life on the edges—where faith, doubt, nature, and imagination meet. Together, he and Martha explore what it means to live faith large rather than small, to follow curiosity and courage beyond institutional boundaries, and to discover the sacred in unexpected places. They talk about: Why the edges of faith are often where renewal begins The cost and gift of leaving the institutional church How nature, ritual, and imagination can nurture a living spirituality Storytelling as a pathway to truth and healing Courage, curiosity, and the call to live with openness instead of fear Pearson’s journey invites pastors, seekers, and skeptics alike to consider: What if leaving the church isn’t an ending, but another way of following the Spirit into new life?   Mentioned Resources: 🌐 Website: https://www.brianepearson.ca/ 📖 His Book: Talking to Trees 🎧 His Podcast: The Mystic Cave   Presenting Sponsor: Phillips Seminary Join conversations that expose you to new ideas, deepen your commitment and give insights to how we can minister in a changing world.    Supporting Sponsors: Kokoro  Join in for heartfelt journeys that challenges the way we see ourselves, each other, and the world we share. Free Range Priest Helping clergy and congregations reimagine ministry in the digital age.    Future Christian Team: Loren Richmond Jr. – Host & Executive Producer Martha Tatarnic – Co-Host Paul Romig–Leavitt – Associate Producer Dennis Sanders – Producer Alexander Lang - Production Assistant    

What does it look like for a church’s budget, bylaws, and building to reflect the values of justice and faith? In this episode of the Future Christian Podcast, host Loren Richmond Jr. speaks with Rev. Dr. Sheryl Johnson, theologian, ethicist, and author of Serving Money, Serving God: Aligning Radical Justice, Christian Practice, and Church Life (Fortress Press, 2023). Together they explore how churches can move beyond good intentions to embody justice through everyday practices—especially around finance, fundraising, stewardship, and administration. They discuss: Why church administration is theological, not just logistical How job postings and pay scales reveal a congregation’s real values The pitfalls of donor-centered fundraising and better alternatives Honest communication about money, failure, and hope How churches can make ethical decisions about property and buildings What it means to see the local church as a foretaste of God’s reign Sheryl challenges pastors and leaders to re-imagine what “faithful stewardship” truly means in today’s world—where economic justice, transparency, and collaboration are essential for credible ministry. Sheryl Johnson (she/her) is a settler on Ohlone land and was born in Treaty 1 Territory in what is colonially known as Winnipeg, Canada. She began teaching at Pacific Lutheran Theological Seminary in the fall of 2020, as she was defending her PhD in Theology and Ethics at Graduate Theological Union. Her dissertation focused on the intersections of social justice (racial, economic, gender, etc) and ecclesial practices (specifically stewardship, finance, and polity). A book based on her dissertation, Serving Money, Serving God:  Aligning Radical Justice, Christian Practice, and Church Life, was published by Fortress Press in 2023. Sheryl is an ordained minister in the United Church of Canada, with dual standing in the United Church of Christ. Sheryl has served several congregations, campus ministries, ecumenical advocacy organizations (especially KAIROS: Canadian Ecumenical Justice Initiatives and the Student Christian Movement/World Student Christian Federation), and global church partners (specifically the National Council of Churches of the Philippines and People's Action Forum in Zambia), in addition to her academic work. She completed her M.Div and MPS degrees at Emmanuel College, University of Toronto and also completed a Certificate of Specialization in Theology and Ecology at the University of St. Michael's College during her theological studies. Sheryl is passionate about embodied, participatory, and critical pedagogies and supporting students to make connections between justice commitments and vocational practices.    Mentioned Resources: 🌐 Website: https://www.sheryljohnsonphd.com/ 📖 Her Book: https://www.fortresspress.com/store/product/9781506482965/Serving-Money-Serving-God 📖 Her Next Book: The Business of God 🎧 Episodes Referenced: Michelle Van Loon   Presenting Sponsor: Phillips Seminary Join conversations that expose you to new ideas, deepen your commitment and give insights to how we can minister in a changing world.    Supporting Sponsors: Kokoro  Join in for heartfelt journeys that challenges the way we see ourselves, each other, and the world we share. Free Range Priest Helping clergy and congregations reimagine ministry in the digital age.    Future Christian Team: Loren Richmond Jr. – Host & Executive Producer Martha Tatarnic – Co-Host Paul Romig–Leavitt – Associate Producer Dennis Sanders – Producer Alexander Lang - Production Assistant    

What’s worth keeping—and what needs to go—when it comes to modern evangelicalism? In this episode of the Future Christian Podcast, host Loren Richmond Jr. talks with author Michelle Van Loon, whose new book Downsizing: Letting Go of Evangelicalism’s Non-Essentials explores the story of evangelical faith from its post–World War II roots to today’s crisis of credibility. Drawing from her own journey—from a secular Jewish upbringing to decades inside evangelical churches—Van Loon offers an unflinching yet hopeful look at the movement’s excesses, blind spots, and spiritual gifts worth preserving. Together, Loren and Michelle unpack: The distinction between revival and revivalism—and why chasing emotional “mountaintop” moments misses the point. The long shadow of leaders like James Dobson and Bill Gothard, and how their influence shaped evangelical culture. The roots of authoritarianism and control in religious systems—and what healthy spiritual authority looks like. Why humility and listening matter more than programs or platforms. What it means to “downsize” faith while still holding on to Jesus. Van Loon reminds listeners that faith is not about clinging to institutions but about rediscovering the way of Christ—one marked by honesty, empathy, and hope. 👉 Subscribe to the Future Christian Podcast for more honest conversations about leadership, theology, and the future of the church.   Michelle Van Loon’s writing is shaped by her deeply rooted faith in Christ, secular Jewish heritage, spiritual hunger, and storyteller’s sensibilities. She has been a regular contributor to Christianity Today magazine, and has articles at a number of other digital sites.. Her eight books include her newest, Downsizing: Letting Go of Evangelicalism's Nonessentials. You can learn more about her work at her website, michellevanloon.com or connect with her at her little corner of Substack, which is called Transforming Words.    Mentioned Resources: 🌐 Website: michellevanloon.com  📖 Her Book:: https://www.eerdmans.com/9780802884626/downsizing/ 🎧 Episodes Referenced: Joelle Kidd 🎧 Episodes Referenced: Robert Schuller 🎧 Episodes Referenced: J. Michael Jordan 🎧 Episodes Referenced: Mike Cosper   Presenting Sponsor: Phillips Seminary Join conversations that expose you to new ideas, deepen your commitment and give insights to how we can minister in a changing world.    Supporting Sponsors: Kokoro  Join in for heartfelt journeys that challenges the way we see ourselves, each other, and the world we share. Free Range Priest Helping clergy and congregations reimagine ministry in the digital age.    Future Christian Team: Loren Richmond Jr. – Host & Executive Producer Martha Tatarnic – Co-Host Paul Romig–Leavitt – Associate Producer Dennis Sanders – Producer Alexander Lang - Production Assistant    

What unique challenges do women face in ministry leadership—and what gives them hope for the future of the church? In this special roundtable episode of the Future Christian Podcast, host Loren Richmond Jr. welcomes a panel of seasoned clergy leaders: Rev. Tabatha Johnson (Disciples of Christ), The Venerable Sheila Van Zandwyck (Anglican), Rev. Canon Katherine Morgan (Anglican), and Rev. Canon Martha Tatarnic (Anglican and Future Christian co-host). Together, they share candid stories about their call to ministry, navigating representation and authority, the sacrifices women often make that men may not, and how mentors and allies have helped along the way. From maternity leave struggles to stereotypes about “what a minister should look like,” these leaders open up about both progress and persistent challenges for women in the church today. Listeners will gain insights into: How women discern and embrace a call to ordained ministry. The “stained glass ceiling” and ongoing equity issues in church leadership. The importance of mentors, representation, and visible role models. How congregations respond differently to women clergy across traditions. What gives hope for the next generation of women entering ministry. Whether you’re a pastor, church leader, or layperson passionate about equality in the church, this episode offers wisdom, encouragement, and a vision for a more inclusive future.   Rev. Tabatha D. Johnson is a pastor in the Christian Church (Disciples of Christ).  She has served as a pastor and chaplain for over twenty years. She graduated from the University of Missouri-Kansas City and Central Baptist Theological Seminary and is co-editor and contributor to Still A Mother: Journeys Through Perinatal Bereavement (Judson Press.) a 2017 Gold Medal Winner in the Illumination Book Awards. She is currently the Senior Pastor at Shawnee Community Christian Church where she joyfully serves alongside people who love Jesus and one another. Tabatha’s greatest love, besides her family and her church, are coffee and starting home improvement projects in her home that someday, hopefully, she will finish. Tabatha lives with her spouse, Cory, and their children in the Kansas City Metro. The Venerable Sheila Van Zandwyk is Archdeacon of Lincoln Deanery and Rector of Church of the Transfiguration. She was born and raised in St. Catharines and was raised in the Christian Reformed Church. She began attending an Anglican Church in my twenties. Until starting seminary at 40, Van Zandwyk worked in retail, for a number of years as the Manager of a Shoppers Drug Mart. Ordained for 17 years, Van Zandwyk has worked in churches in Oakville, Hamilton and now St. Catharines, being at Transfiguration for 6 years now.  The Reverend Canon Katherine Morgan graduated with a Master of Divinity from Trinity College, University of Toronto. Morgan is ordained in the Diocese of Niagara where she had the privilege of serving in rural, small town and city parishes for 29 years.  Currently Morgan is the rector of Church of the Resurrection in Hamilton. In her free time, she loves to sing, enjoy puzzles, and is the proud parent of an adult son.    Mentioned Resources: 🌐 Website: https://shawneecommunity.org/ 🌐 Website:  🎧 Episodes Referenced: Margo Guernsey   Presenting Sponsor: Phillips Seminary Join conversations that expose you to new ideas, deepen your commitment and give insights to how we can minister in a changing world.    Supporting Sponsors: Kokoro  Join in for heartfelt journeys that challenges the way we see ourselves, each other, and the world we share. Free Range Priest Helping clergy and congregations reimagine ministry in the digital age.    Future Christian Team: Loren Richmond Jr. – Host & Executive Producer Martha Tatarnic – Co-Host Paul Romig–Leavitt – Associate Producer Dennis Sanders – Producer Alexander Lang - Production Assistant  

What does ministry look like beyond the walls of traditional institutions? In this episode, Loren Richmond Jr. talks with Father Cathie Caimano—Episcopal priest, writer, coach, and founder of Free Range Priest. For nearly a decade, Caimano has been helping churches and leaders reimagine ministry for the 21st century, blending ancient practices with agile, entrepreneurial models. Caimano shares her own journey from traditional parish priest to “free range” ministry, reflecting on what she learned serving small churches, working alongside Bishop Michael Curry, and navigating the disruption of the COVID era. She makes a bold case for new containers of church—lean, sustainable, and faithful—while still deeply rooted in the gospel. Caimano insists that the church is not dying—the institution is. And in that collapse lies the opportunity to reimagine ministry with freedom, joy, and faithfulness. Key points from the conversation: How spiritual practices can function like a “gym for your soul” Why institutions resist technology and why that must change The difference between innovation within old systems and creating new ones Why small congregations can thrive by embracing sustainability, not size How the church can learn from entrepreneurship, social enterprise, and start-up culture Cathie Caimano, ʻFr. Cathie’, and is an Episcopal priest, ordained for 25 years. Since 2016, She's been a  Free Range Priest - her own ministry/business with a mission to help reimagine ministry in the 21st century. She serves a small congregation in a 'cage free' way, and she writes, coaches, teaches and consults about practical ways of being and doing church in sustainable, faithful, joyful ways. She lives near Charlotte, NC with her wonderful husband and adorable Great Dane. When she's not thinking about God and church, you can find her taking photos of the sunrise, or out running somewhere!   Mentioned Resources: 🌐 Website: https://trexo.church/p/start-here 🌐 Website: https://www.freerangepriest.org/about 🎧 Episodes Referenced: Chad Brooks 🎧 Episodes Referenced: Steve Cuss 🎧 Episodes Referenced: Matt Syrdal 🎧 Episodes Referenced: Bethany Peerbolte   Presenting Sponsor: Phillips Seminary Join conversations that expose you to new ideas, deepen your commitment and give insights to how we can minister in a changing world.    Supporting Sponsors: Kokoro  Join in for heartfelt journeys that challenges the way we see ourselves, each other, and the world we share. Free Range Priest Helping clergy and congregations reimagine ministry in the digital age.    Future Christian Team: Loren Richmond Jr. – Host & Executive Producer Martha Tatarnic – Co-Host Paul Romig–Leavitt – Associate Producer Dennis Sanders – Producer Alexander Lang - Production Assistant        

What does leadership look like when the church is shrinking? In this episode, Martha Tatarnic talks with Rev. Dr. Bill Harrison, president of Lutheran Theological Seminary in Saskatoon and author of Leadership in a Shrinking Church. Harrison shares candid insights from his own journey—from growing up in a fundamentalist tradition to leading in ecumenical and academic contexts. He reflects on why complexity is not something to fear, why “do less with less” might be the most faithful strategy today, and how congregations can reclaim a gospel vision rooted in transformation rather than numbers.  Realistic and hopeful, this episode offers practical tools for pastors, leaders, and congregations navigating decline as Harrison reminds that God’s transformation is complex, but the good news is alive and present—even in a shrinking church. In this conversation you’ll hear: Why numerical growth has become an idol in many churches The crushing accumulation of roles and expectations placed on clergy Four dimensions of transformation—intellectual, psychic, moral, and religious—that shape Christian life Why congregations need to clarify identity, mission, and resources instead of trying to be “all things to all people” How gospel vision statements can help churches focus on what really matters The Rev. Dr. William (Bill) Harrison is president of Lutheran Theological Seminary, Saskatoon, and former chair of the Saskatoon Theological Union Common Faculty. Bill teaches systematic and historical theology, and ethics. In addition to his PhD in systematic theology and church history from Boston College, Bill has degrees in English literature (M.A.), theology (B.Th.), and political science (B.A. Hons). Bill is the author of Leadership in a Shrinking Church: Finding New Vision in Unlikely Places; Frequently Asked Questions in Christian Theology; and In Praise of Mixed Religions: The Syncretism Solution in a Multifaith World. Everywhere he goes, Bill takes music with him, listening to a broad variety. At home, he spends as much time as possible walking trails or out in his kayak. Mentioned Resources: 📖 Get his Book: Leadership in a Shrinking Church 📱 Follow: https://www.facebook.com/bill.harrison.359128 🌐 Website: www.lutherantheological.ca  🌐 Website: https://www.facebook.com/LTSSaskatoon/ 🎧 Episodes Referenced: Robert Schuller episode   Presenting Sponsor: Phillips Seminary Join conversations that expose you to new ideas, deepen your commitment and give insights to how we can minister in a changing world.    Supporting Sponsors: Kokoro  Join in for heartfelt journeys that challenges the way we see ourselves, each other, and the world we share. Free Range Priest Helping clergy and congregations reimagine ministry in the digital age.    Future Christian Team: Loren Richmond Jr. – Host & Executive Producer Martha Tatarnic – Co-Host Paul Romig–Leavitt – Associate Producer Dennis Sanders – Producer Alexander Lang - Production Assistant      

What does it really mean for a church to be “healthy”? In this episode, Loren sits down with Chad Brooks—United Methodist congregational vitality strategist and author of Is My Church Healthy? Drawing on his years of experience as a church planter, pastor, and denominational leader, Brooks challenges common assumptions about growth and health. He unpacks why stability must come before vitality, how to measure what truly matters, and why small congregations often carry unique strengths that larger ones overlook. With both encouragement and practical tools, Brooks equips pastors, leaders, and laypeople to discern their next faithful step. Whether you lead a large church or a normal-sized one, this conversation will help you reimagine what vitality looks like in today’s context. Key Points: Why size doesn’t determine health—and how small churches can thrive The four stages of congregational life: unstable, stable, vital, and sustainable How to right-size ministries instead of copying “the big church down the street” Why tracking data isn’t impersonal but essential to caring for people The difference between mercy, justice, mission, and evangelism—and why churches must reclaim their distinct call How COVID acted as a “reset button” for many congregations Chad Brooks is an ordained elder in the United Methodist Church and currently serves on the staff of The Louisiana Annual Conference of the United Methodist Church as the Congregational Vitality Strategist. He lives in central Louisiana with his wife of 20 years Meredith. Chad is a graduate of Louisiana Tech University and Asbury Theological Seminary. Chad grew up in the church as the son of an SBC Pastor and has spent his career working in all aspects of church, from Technical Production Director of churches and a major Seminary, to a pastor of established churches and church plants. He has stewarded the Productive Pastor Community for 20 years and it equally passionate about seeing revival as he is about resourcing Pastors in all aspects of healthy ministry. When not reading and thinking about the Church, he enjoys practicing Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu and being in the outdoors at his hunting camp.   Mentioned Resources: 📖 Get his Book: Is My Church Healthy? 🌐 Louisiana Conference: https://www.la-umc.org/conferencestaff 🎧 Episodes Referenced: Dennis Sanders 🎧 Episodes Referenced: Drew Crowson     Presenting Sponsor: Phillips Seminary Join conversations that expose you to new ideas, deepen your commitment and give insights to how we can minister in a changing world.    Supporting Sponsors: Restore Clergy If you are clergy in need of tailored, professional support to help you manage the demands of ministry, Restore Clergy is for you! Kokoro  Join in for heartfelt journeys that challenges the way we see ourselves, each other, and the world we share.   Future Christian Team: Loren Richmond Jr. – Host & Executive Producer Martha Tatarnic – Co-Host Paul Romig–Leavitt – Associate Producer Dennis Sanders – Producer Alexander Lang - Production Assistant    

How do pastors and church leaders navigate ministry when the battles feel relentless? In this episode, Loren talks with Bishop Jeffrey V. Dudley Sr.—retired Air Force chaplain, pastor, and leadership coach. Drawing from his decades of service in the military and the church, Bishop Dudley shares candid reflections on leadership, spiritual practices, and the weight of ministry. He opens up about personal seasons of opposition, the temptation to over-spiritualize crises, and the vital importance of prayer, boundaries, and honest self-awareness. This conversation is a powerful reminder for pastors, leaders, and anyone in ministry that resilience is possible, that honesty matters, and that our hope remains anchored in Jesus. Listeners will hear: Why “battles are inevitable, and preparation must be intentional” How to discern between authenticity and “bleeding on the people” The danger of over-spiritualizing crises—and how leaders can own responsibility Bishop Dudley’s vulnerable reflections on suicidal ideation and the hope that carried him through Why he insists, “You are not what you feel”   Dr. Geoffrey V. Dudley, Sr. is a retired Air Force Chaplain (Lt. Colonel), Bishop, author, and leadership coach. A lifelong minister and visionary leader, he holds a PhD in Organizational Leadership from Regent University, a Doctor of Ministry from Virginia Union University, a Master of Divinity from Virginia Union, a Master of Human Relations from the University of Oklahoma, and a Bachelor of Arts in Communication, Drama & Speech from UNC Greensboro. He also holds a Post-Master Education Specialist degree from the University of Memphis. Dr. Dudley is the founding pastor of New Life in Christ Church (O'Fallon, IL), one of the fastest-growing churches in the St. Louis metro area, and the CEO of New Life Community Development Corporation, which leads major community initiatives including a $20M affordable housing project. A John Maxwell Associate Trainer and author of six books—including Leading Through Storms—he also mentors leaders through iLeadAcademy.net and Changing Lives Ministries. He and his wife Glenda have two adult children engaged in ministry and nonprofit leadership.   Mentioned Resources: 📖 His Book: https://ivpress.com/leading-through-storms 🌐 His church website: https://www.nlicic.org   Presenting Sponsor: Phillips Seminary Join conversations that expose you to new ideas, deepen your commitment and give insights to how we can minister in a changing world.    Supporting Sponsors: Restore Clergy If you are clergy in need of tailored, professional support to help you manage the demands of ministry, Restore Clergy is for you! Kokoro  Join in for heartfelt journeys that challenges the way we see ourselves, each other, and the world we share.   Future Christian Team: Loren Richmond Jr. – Host & Executive Producer Martha Tatarnic – Co-Host Paul Romig–Leavitt – Associate Producer Dennis Sanders – Producer Alexander Lang - Production Assistant