Garlic & Pearls

In the wake of the banning of absinthe in France in 1915, a new apéritif was born, redolent with aniseed and liquorice, a taste at once medicinal and full of the joie de vivre we associate with the South of France. But what does 'pastis' mean? Who invented it? In what way did it have political implications? And why is it so central to French apéritif culture? Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Muriel tells the story of the stripy Breton top and wonders how a pattern – stripes – once considered sacrilegious and satanic gradually became the epitome of French elegance. We explore the evolving cultural history of a powerful symbol, the role of seaside holidays, of sailor suits as the preferred outfits of smart children, and the formalisation of the uniforms of the French Navy. Coco Chanel, Pablo Picasso, Jean Cocteau, Jean-Paul Gaultier and a lot of zebras put in an appearance. Are stripy tops a means of clothing oneself in maritime courage, freedom and adventure? Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Biros at the ready as Suzanne takes Muriel on a tour of a very British obsession: the pub quiz. Did it begin on a mythical night in Yorkshire in 1946? Is it one of the primary ways in which the British relate to each other socially? And if so, why? Can the Zoom quiz be credited for keeping the nation together during Covid? Are the best pub quizzes, Suzanne asks, ultimately where the British sense of terroir is located? Warning: this episode contains a veritable avalanche of punning. What's your team name, by the way? The Spanish Inquizzition? I Am Smartacus? Or simply: Quizzy McQuizface? Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

With French historian Charlotte Faucher as her guide, Muriel explores the madly ornamental pink-brick Art Deco wonder that is the French Cultural Institute in South Kensington. Though the building dates from 1939, the idea of setting up a French Institute in Britain as a gateway to a better understanding between our two nations arose in 1910, the brainchild of Marie d'Orliac, an enigmatic figure who was also very good at reinventing herself. Nowadays South Kensington is a hub of French soft power, but how did it all begin, and what was the impact of the two World Wars on the project, especially the arrival in 1940 of an obscure officer called Charles de Gaulle and his 'certain idea of France'? Join us for a fascinating peek into a beguiling engine of soft power and the people that gave it meaning!   Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

This episode, full of suspense and mystery, is brought to you by the letter J! In the English language, the letter and its distinctive sound are deployed in their glory, whereas the French soften the letter J (as in je or bijou). The letter's story, which comes to full expression in 1629, is bound with that of the printing press. Who invented the letter J? Suzanne retraces the evolution of this exciting, propulsive letter – and how it acquired its shape – by way of the monumental King James Bible undertaking and the cast of dedicated medieval Cambridge scholars who carried it out. It is a story of the quest for legibility, clarity, directness and transparency – a very British story that would, Suzanne thinks, make a wonderful film. But who should play the letter J, the mischievous letter trying to make its mark on the page?  Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

In 1910, Paris was an ultra-modern electrified metropolis at the height of its confidence, insouciance and triumphant glamour. Then came the winter rains, and the Seine began inexorably to rise, causing chaos and devastation. Parisians living near the river soon found themselves getting about the streets in rowing boats and on improvised wooden walkways. The man of the moment was the then prefect of Paris, the gallant and indefatigable Louis Lépine, who patrolled the city in a frock coat and top hat , his smart trousers tucked into wellies, and seemed to be everywhere at once. Muriel tells an apocalyptic story of resilience and survival, and of the III Republic being put to the test.  Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Starting with the glorious 1934 novel The Nine Tailors by queen of crime Dorothy L. Sayers, set in the mystical, liminal landscape of the Fens and in the haunting world of ancient bell ringing, Suzanne explores the English art of campanology. Ringing in rounds requires intense mental and physical discipline – in the novel, the intrepid Lord Peter Wimsey rings bells for nine hours solid – and this communal activity already bound villages together in Tudor times. How did England evolve a form of music – the voice of a village – that is written as a sequence of numbers? Suzanne patiently walks Muriel through the mechanics of belfries and the mind-boggling mathematics of change ringing, strike intervals and vertiginous extents. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Suzanne and Muriel welcome as a special guest the food writer and journalist Debora Robertson. a perceptive observer of French village life in the South-West – and the French psyche – in her Substack, Lickedspoon. She describes what it's like to be an exotic Brit in the French countryside and shares on-the-ground anecdotes about French behaviour. We find out which is more important, croissants or yoghurts? Is the baguette still sacred? Is the French administration really the embodiment of evil? Is it possible for the French to enjoy British food? What are the byzantine rules of kissing people hello? Are bidets a Good Thing or a Bad Thing? Are the French rude? What is normal for France and what do you have to do to fit in? And much more! Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

How, wonders Suzanne, did Britain come to gift the Big Z to the entire world? And how did Britain become a place where pedestrians can expect, in most cases, to find a crossing in the right place? The presence of zebra crossings is the fruit of a long evolution involving bitter parliamentary debates and the tension between limiting speed and protecting an Englishman's freedom of the highway. We meet the transformative figures of Leslie Hore-Belisha, inventor of the driving test and the flashing Belisha beacon, and Dr George Charlesworth, – aka 'Dr Zebra' – whose studies in contrast perception led to Britain leading the way in road safety worldwide: 'Listener, if you seek his monument, look around you.' Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Muriel and Suzanne raise a shaken, not stirred pickled-onion-and-Orangina cocktail to toast a vintage episode of the podcast. Now 100 hours into exploring Britishness and Frenchness, they each select their 5 favourite episodes presented by the other and reflect on what they have discovered along the way. An overflowing cornucopia of garlic, pearls, revelations, surprises and cultural aperçus, this landmark episode throws some light on the results of G&P's inquiries and highlights many gems in the podcast's catalogue. Did your favourite make the cut?  Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Muriel wonders why the May 68 uprisings happened so expansively and explosively in the France of De Gaulle and not in Howard Wilson's Britain. She takes Suzanne back to a time of flying cobblestones and bourgeois Maoist students on the barricades. What triggered the events, what fanned the fire? How much of a revolution was May 68, really? What political and social fracture has it left in French society? And what is its legacy in terms of imagery and myth? Glorious utopia of social break-down? Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Suzanne takes Muriel on a journey to a faraway land, travelling into the hidden depths of a dinner plate. Its famous pattern – trees, a pagoda, a bridge, a boat, a fence – tells a version of Romeo and Juliet's story set in Imperial China. The plate was first made in England in the 18th century, but the story and its memorable characters – an eminent mandarin, his beautiful daughter, an ardent young man, a resourceful maid – were retrofitted to the plate as part of a story of cross-cultural admiration, imitation and adaptation that unfolded in Staffordshire in the 1780s. But how did Josiah Spode rewrite the pottery rule book? And how has the allure of Blue Willow lasted to this day? Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

In France, a country with a multiplicity of cheeses, only one achieves national unity: the humble Vache qui rit – or Laughing Cow. But what are the origins of this product? Invented in the wake of the Great War as a trailblazing 'fromage moderne', it shares a terroir with the more prestigious Comté, which is also one of its ingredients. Paradoxically, Muriel suggests, this processed melted cheese – part Proustian madeleine and part gateway to gastronomy – is an expression of the French passion for le fromage. And Suzanne also receives something she didn't know she needed: a moo box! Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

An imposing stag stands in a dramatic landscape, in a famous painting hanging in pride of place in the National Scottish Gallery. But what are we really looking at, asks Suzanne. An accomplished oil painting by a Victorian master? A great icon for Scotland? Is is the painting a case of cultural appropriation and the encapsulation of 'Balmorality'? Does it matter if Landseer lost his head to the romance of Scotland? And who was he, and why did he paint the famous stag? It's a rollicking tale of tormented artistic temperament and the peregrinations of a painting, featuring the early days of marketing and mass reproduction, a very French case of cherchez la femme, a delicious recipe for potatoes and the foreshadowing of action painting – with tea.  Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

What makes a garden distinctly French? A geometrical layout, straight lines of regular topiary and not a hair out of place! How, Muriel asks, did the jardin à la française develop as an expression of French thought and sensibility? Together, one man, royal gardener André Le Nôtre, and his king, Louis XIV the monarch absolute, turbo-charged an ornamental tradition imported from Italy to create Versailles, with its heliocentric design and extraordinary display of mastery of man over nature. Wonderful artistry or neurotic obsession with power? Certainly, French gardens speak intensely of political ideas as well as aesthetics. Suzanne wonders where all Gallic insouciance has gone. Jean-Jacques Rousseau guest-stars.  Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

There are over a million Labradors in the UK, but where did this sturdy marvel of bright countenance and sweet temper originate? Is it really possible to invent a dog? Yes, says Suzanne, though she concedes that the seed of the Labrador breed came from the now extinct Newfoundland St. John's water dog, with his double layer of fur and his webbed feet. Gasp at the breeding achievements of top sportsmen Colonel Peter Hawker and successive Earls of Malmesbury and Dukes of Buccleuch! Thrill at a whole cast of illustrious dogs who either that had their portrait painted or received awards for bravery! Also featured: a British canine scandal, a Nancy Mitford connection and a nail-biting game of 'Guess the Dictator!' Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Monocles and canes at the ready! Muriel traces the 19th-century origins of a familiar and somewhat raffish figure of Frenchness. Part boulevardier, part dandy, part poet, the flâneur is a leisurely observer of the urban landscape. But where did he come from? What is his legacy? And can there be such a thing as a British flâneur? Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Suzanne explores the British adoration of the yellow, trumpet-like, optimistic daffodil, the harbinger of spring. The evocative words of William and Dorothy Wordsworth, poetry and prose, bracket this episode, in which we discover that daffodils are also about economics. The UK cultivates 90% of the global daffodil supply. The numbers are staggering: hundreds of millions of flowers are grown annually and must all be harvested by hand. But how? We also meet a bunch of Victorian daffodil obsessives, from Scottish enthusiast Peter Barr, whose quest for seeds took him, astride a donkey, all over the Pyrenees, where he was mistaken for a bandit; Reverend George Herbert Engleheart, clergyman and father of the modern daffodil; and Quaker plantswoman Sarah Backhouse – aka 'The Genius' – who turned daffodils pink! Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Café waiters are omnipresent in French life and in French culture as a sort of regiment – serried ranks of men in their black-and-white uniform with tremendous esprit de corps. But who are they really, Muriel asks, and how did they become such stock figures of Frenchness, and even objects of study for French philosophy? What makes a good café waiter? Is it to do with natural ability, physical fitness, French reserve, or the joys of performance? What is the etiquette of interacting with a café waiter? And what are the rules of the traditional café waiters race? Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

How to solve a problem like the British weather? It's easy if you invent the right British garment with a French name, whose origins and evolution Suzanne unveils: it's a story of ancient hooded spirits, anoraks, Royal Marines, the great outdoors, textile manufacturing, fashion and practicality, and – in a surprising twist – anti-Republican conspiracies in 1930s France. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Muriel unravels the reasons why so many film villains happen to be French. From dissolute sophisticates to duplicitous manipulators and downright sadistic megalomaniacs, what do these colourful imaginary French figures tell us about Frenchness? Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Suzanne explores a masterpiece which is 'like being knocked out' – a cri de coeur about downtrodden youth, devastating tragedy and the tyranny of class. But Ken Loach's Kes is also a dream of escape, wondrous lyrical beauty and the call of the wild. And what of A Kestrel for a Knave, the film's source novel, and its revered author Barry Hines? What do they tell us about how a story rooted in South Yorkshire working-class experience, once told in print and film, gave a whole community their voice and also reached universal resonance?  Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Muriel examines a madly famous succès de scandale. What’s going on in Edouard Manet’s 1863 painting of an outdoors scene featuring four people, one of whom is stark naked? Is it a riddle? A transgressive prank? Napoleon III guest stars as the originator of the offbeat Salon des Refusés, and an enigmatic life model breaks the fourth wall. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Suzanne tells Muriel a very British story of surprise global success, which began at a shooting party in 1951 with a dispute over the speed of a golden plover. A dramatic cast of fact finders and record breakers includes Guinness Brewery managing director Sir Hugh Beaver, identical twins of exceptional retentive memory Norris and Ross McWhirter, and Presidents of Turkmenistan Gurbanguly Berdimuhamedow and his son Sherdar. What made the Book such a success? What challenges did it face? And where in the world has the highest concentration of white marble buildings? Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Why does 'Brittany' (in local dialects Breizh and Bertègn) sound so much like 'Britain'? Because this Western region of France, once known as Armorique, was profoundly shaped by an influx of 5th-century Celt migration from the British Isles. One of the six Celtic nations, it represents an enmeshing of our two cultures and isn't quite part of mainstream France. Muriel narrates the region's turbulent history of annexation by the Kingdom of France through a series of strategic marriages – almost all of them to the same Breton Duchess. Plus mythical tales of drowned cities, a controversial Breton comic-strip heroine, home-grown Breton Cola, and your reminder to eat pancakes for Candlemas, like the French! Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Suzanne moves the goalposts and gives football the Garlic & Pearls treatment: it's a story where passions run high, from obsessive devotion to dogged attempts to ban the sport, whether because of its riotous violence of because it's deemed unsuitable for ladies. A cast of colourful characters keep the ball moving: Henry VIII, Mary Queen of Scots, the five-foot-tall Lady Florence Dixie and her husband Lord ABCD, Nettie Honeyball and legendary scorer Lily Parr ... But how did quicksilver come into it? And where was the world's oldest extant football discovered, hinting at protection from witchcraft? Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Oh là là! From the Belle Epoque to the Jazz Age rose famous French brothels such as Le Chabanais, the One Two Two or the Sphynx. This vanished world, its outlandish themed rooms and enigmatic army of female denizens, live on in the iconography that they inspired and that remains forever wedded to French identity. The future Edward VII guest stars as a designer of unusual furniture.  Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Suzanne illuminates the origins and meaning of hallmarking, which began in the 13th century under Edward I – aka Edward Longshanks – as part of his wider effort to stabilise the kingdom by means of statutes. Though the French king Louis IX appears as a guest star, this is a case of Britain being far more systematic and precise than France while, in typical British fashion, devising a resilient system capable of evolving through the centuries. Where were the native silver and gold mines of Britain? And did you know that you could have your own hallmark made?   Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Muriel goes back to school to explore how in France the spelling test called la dictée became the backbone of French education. Who introduced it and why? Is it fascistic or democratic? And how did a school exercise become a beloved popular cultural event shared by the nation? It's a very Gallic tale of Republican alphabetisation, unification and nation-building, and Muriel joins in by pitting herself against Emperor Napoleon III in taking on a famously exacting dictée!  Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

In our last episode of 2025, Suzanne and Muriel consider soberly which is more atmospheric and replete with the spirit of Christmas - is it Dickens with Michael Caine and a cast of Muppets, or is it a pivotal bit of melodrama in Victor Hugo's social saga? Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Cheers! Santé! Suzanne retraces the history of a 1970s Soho brainwave of deliciousness and Muriel obeys the traditional Pavlovian call of Champenois fizz Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Suzanne brings a whole lotta Christmas to the table and parses the delights of the double issue of the Radio Times; Muriel unpacks a cult French sitcom about two contrasting lifestyles of the bourgeoisie Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Suzanne makes a compelling case for the evocative beauty of In the Bleak Midwinter and its landscape imagery infused with spirituality; Muriel wonders how Minuit, Chrétiens, a rousing carol authored by a Socialist firebrand and a stage composer, made it into the French Catholic choral canon. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Muriel and Suzanne are swapping seasonal treats: masses of cheerful multicoloured candy vs a handful of meticulously crafted products of the terroir. Both delicious, but what do they say about the British and the French at Christmas? Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Suzanne takes a punt at the 2025 Christmas No1 and crowns 1984 as the very best vintage of British Christmas charts; Muriel explains how and why the French Christmas No1, a 'secular carol' by venerated crooner Tino Rossi, remains unchanged since 1946. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

In which Suzanne unearths the story of a major British hobby and its relationship with landscape and the romance of the past. Why are the British obsessed with metal detecting? What is their Arthurian code of practice? What are portable antiquities? Who are the night hawkers? What does all this reveal about British attitudes to liberty, in stark contrast to France? Includes helpful pointers about buying the best metal detector, and Alexander Graham Bell as an unexpected star of the show! Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Muriel tackles an awkward truth: the French may love rigour and rationality – France is the nation of Descartes, after all – but they are also susceptible to the allure of psychics, the alignment of the stars, and angels calling on the phone from beyond. How has this survived the advent of the Enlightenment and the Revolution? And what does it mean in terms of our relationship to super-forecasting and superstition, Suzanne wonders. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

In which Suzanne investigates profound differences between our two cultures by asking why the British tax year is not, like in France, aligned onto the calendar year. The answers, which astonish Muriel, are deeply rooted in Britain's relationship to the Continent. It's a story of mathematics and astrology, Popes, bishops and archbishops, Catholicism and the Reformation, and, of course, Acts of Parliament, which opens a vertiginous crack in time. Elizabeth I, John Dee and Isaac Newton all guest star.  Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

In the second half of our theatrical diptych, Muriel tells Suzanne about the 'atomic bomb' of the French theatre, an experimental Absurdist masterpiece by Romanian-French playwright Eugène Ionesco that became a classic of the French stage. It has neither plot nor psychology – only a lot of uneasy comic momentum, poking fun at the bourgeoisie. But how has it lasted so long? And why is it about British people?  Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Suzanne and Muriel consider the brilliance, longevity and significance of Agatha Christie's murder mystery play The Mousetrap, which has been running since 1952. Set in a country house isolated by bad weather, the play is a model of distinctly British sweet-and-sour eruption of violence in a cosy setting, and replete with red herrings and eccentric characters. The police inspector arrives on skis! It also taps into wider postwar unease: Christie evokes a newly unstable world, a shifting class structure and an air of paranoid watchfulness. But can Muriel and Suzanne guess the culprit? Can you? Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

It's Halloween and Muriel encourages Suzanne to think about the Gallic bones displayed and staged in the Paris Catacombs in a neo-classical early-19th-century mise-en-scène at once macabre and meditative. We also discover a contemporary underground scene of fun-loving secret explorers and hear about the time Suzanne dug up a medieval monk in Hampshire. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Following on from his book The Discovery of France, Graham Robb has produced another fascinating work of exploration, The Discovery of Britain. Graham's observations are rooted in extensive travel all over both countries on a Victorian invention, the bicycle, reconnecting with old pathways, landscapes and forgotten people. He shares with Suzanne and Muriel what he discovered about nomads and tribes, hedgerows and standing stones, Ptlolemaic maps and the corporal punishment of saints with nettles. How did France gradually colonise itself into a centralised nation? How many beacons were needed to communicate from Cornwall to Sunderland? And what can you learn at ground level about two countries where so much of the past is visible in front of you? Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Would you Adam and Eve it? Suzanne tutors her 'old China' Muriel in a coded language that is full of wit, inventions and surprises. Rooted in old street cant and secret words identified in the 1850s, rhyming slang expresses the earthiness and supple playfulness inherent in the ways in which the British use their language. Does a French equivalent exist? And what's rhyming slang for Garlic & Pearls? Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Where Muriel explains the mythology of the actress, singer, animal activist and all-round contrarian. How did Bardot re-invent French femininity for the 20th century? Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Is there a Californian landscape growing in Britain to the tune of half a million Giant Redwoods? Suzanne recounts the 19th-century story of adventurous plant collectors, explains how the seeds they brought home went to create the Victorian British landscape that surrounds us, and imagines a dizzying future, 3,000 years away, where thriving Redwoods reach colossal maturity in the British Isles. Alfred Hitchcock and a man called Sequoia are part of the cast.  Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Muriel and Suzanne hop around the arrondissements of Paris explored by Chris Newens in his food memoir Moveable Feasts, comparing and contrasting cuisines, history, sociology and atmosphere. They also learn the logistics of making your own Belleville-style doner kebab. And what is the etiquette of eating brunch at a sex club in Pigalle? Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Where Suzanne ushers in autumn and educates a baffled Muriel in the great British game of conkers, at once nostalgic, ruthlessly competitive and controversial. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

As guests of the Durning Library at the Lambeth Readers and Writers Festival, Muriel and Suzanne discuss Frenchness, Britishness and their podcast adventure. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Muriel introduces Suzanne to the surprisingly whimsical world of French roundabouts. Why does France have so many? Why are the rules so maddening? And are they eyesores or ornaments? Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Camans at the ready! Suzanne and our special guest from the Isle of Skye, the skipper, photographer and shinty player Izzy Law, delve into the origins of the ancient Highland game of shinty or camanachd, evoking close historical ties between Irish and Scottish kingdoms and the hardy nature of a game that was traditionally played as a warm-up before battle between chieftains and clans and also used to settle love rivalries. Today it is a vibrant modern game and the subject of Celtic rock anthems. And, Muriel asks, was it also the inspiration for the fictional game of Quidditch? Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.