Getting Smart Podcast

Dr. Jane Shore is an education researcher, school co-founder, and author of "People-Based Learning: The Future of Learning is Human" (Routledge, 2026). She joins host Rebecca Midles to talk about her three-part framework, connect, reflect, and affect, and why the future of education depends on human connection, not just technology. Jane is the founder of School of Thought PHL, a school built at the intersection of learning science, neuroscience, and visual thinking. Jane's Book: https://www.routledge.com/People-Based-Learning-The-Future-of-Learning-is-Human/Shore/p/book/9781041089858 Jane's School (School of Thought PHL): https://revolutionschool.org/ Jane's Substack: https://substack.com/@schoolofthought Jane's Edutopia Profile: https://www.edutopia.org/profile/jane-shore/ Jane's LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/jane-r-shore/      

In this episode of the Getting Smart Podcast, host Mason Pashia sits down with Edson Barton, CEO and co-founder of YouScience, to explore what it truly means to build a credentialing system that delivers value to learners, not just paperwork. Drawing on Utah's landmark House Bill 260, which mandates stackable credentials for all graduates and positions YouScience as the infrastructure powering that vision, Edson and Mason unpack what an end-to-end career readiness ecosystem looks like when it is grounded in science, driven by aptitude, and designed to answer every student's most fundamental question: why am I learning this? Edson shares his own winding, non-linear education story as a lens into why the current system fails so many passionate learners, and how aptitude-based guidance, layered with stackable industry certifications, can illuminate a meaningful path from middle school discovery all the way to a first career credential. The conversation covers the grain size of credentials, the challenge of interoperability and learner wallets, how to bring skeptical parents on board, and why the skills recognition movement, accelerated by AI, may finally have the technology to match its ambition. For education leaders looking to move from compliance to coherence, this episode is a compelling and practical case for reimagining what student readiness can mean.  

In this episode of Catching Up, Nate McClennen and Mason Pashia tackle three of the most urgent tensions in modern education. They explore a landmark Penn study revealing that while AI can streamline lesson planning, it may inadvertently erode student intrinsic motivation and engagement. The hosts also dive into the "truancy triangle"—a framework for understanding chronic absenteeism that balances policy and wraparound support with the often-overlooked necessity of designing learning experiences that students genuinely find relevant and worth attending. The conversation extends to the broader future of work, contrasting the fears of an "AI job apocalypse" with the reality of an impending demographic job cliff in sectors like healthcare, skilled trades, and education. Balancing these heavy topics, the episode highlights the power of real-world learning, featuring New York City's Summer Youth Employment Program—which leverages World Cup excitement to connect students to paid, hands-on projects—and a "good guy" neighborhood microgrant initiative designed to strengthen community ties. Join Nate and Mason for an honest, layered conversation on how school leaders can cut through the noise to design schools that foster belonging and meaningful outcomes.

Reach University is rethinking higher education with a simple but powerful idea: turn jobs into degrees. In this conversation, Joe Ross shares how apprenticeship degrees can help districts grow their own teachers by investing in the talent already in their buildings. From paraeducators to support staff, this model creates affordable pathways into the profession while strengthening local workforce pipelines. The episode explores teacher prep, higher education, lifelong learning, and new pathways that expand opportunity without adding debt. Outline (00:00) Introduction: Joe Ross & Reach University (06:26) I Love That You Guys Look at Learning Environments (07:37) How the Apprenticeship Degree Model Works (17:24) Expanding Beyond K-12: Healthcare & Workforce Equity (26:43) Next Steps: How to Get Started with Reach University Links Read the full blog here LinkedIn Reach University  

In this episode of the Getting Smart Podcast, Mason Pashia and Jason Cummins sit down with Tyson Yunkaporta for a thought-provoking conversation on Indigenous knowledge, relational learning, and the role of schools as spaces for dialogue, contradiction, and meaning-making. Together, they explore how language shapes worldview, why Indigenous leadership brings vital governance protocols to education, and how schools can move beyond reinforcing boundaries to becoming places where relationships, complexity, and shared understanding can grow. Outline (00:00) Introductions & Indigenous Identity (06:54) Language, Knowledge & Relational Thinking (11:24) Creolization & Indigenous Agency (18:59) Schools as Sites of Conflict & Culture (24:41) Good Protocols & Indigenous Leadership (31:42) Why Do This Work & Deep Time Links Read the full blog American Indian and Indigenous Studies Program Declaration of Peace for Indigenous Australians and Nature: A Legal Pluralist Approach to First Laws and Earth Laws LinkedIn Deakin Research  

On this episode of the Getting Smart Podcast, Mason Pashia sits down with Gersom de Koning to explore theater education as a transformative practice. Their conversation examines how drama builds confidence, collaboration, leadership, and transferable skills while also offering a powerful model for gamification, exploration, and learning through productive failure. From arts integration and technical theater to the future of live performance in an AI world, this episode highlights why theater belongs at the center of meaningful learning. Outline (0:00) Introduction & Background (2:01) Gersem's Journey into Theater (5:41) What Makes Great Theater Education (13:40) Drama, Gamification & Learning (26:03) Failure, Collaboration & Leadership (40:32) The Future of Theater & Drama Education Links Read the full blog here LinkedIn Gersom de Koning Official Site Proper Job Gradcast Episode 19 Creatively Christian: The Creative Power of Limitations  

In this episode of The Getting Smart Podcast with Liberty Public Schools, Rebecca Midles introduces how Liberty Public Schools, located just north of Kansas City and serving about 12,000 students, is reimagining learning through real-world experiences and personalized pathways. The conversation features Julie Moore, Assistant Superintendent for Innovation and Learning, and Sarah Wickham, Director of Real-World Learning, who share the story behind Edge, a microschool embedded within Liberty High School. What began as a vision inspired by the success of EPiC Elementary and shaped by site visits, collaborative design, and even notes scribbled on a napkin became a districtwide learning journey. Rather than centering only on one innovative program, this episode explores how starting small, learning through iteration, and staying grounded in authentic, student-centered experiences can help an entire district transform. Outline (00:00) Introduction (11:14) Building the Space and Team (17:46) Scaling the Model (21:15) Impact on Students and Educators (25:11) Looking Ahead Links Read the full blog here Liberty Public Schools Julie Moore Sarah Wickham EPIC Elementary School What School Could Be Episode with Liberty EDGE Students

On this episode of the Getting Smart Podcast, Mason Pashia is joined by Michael Crawford of America Succeeds and Chris Unger of Northeastern University to explore what it really takes to help young people build durable skills. Drawing on a 16-month study of 12 innovative high schools, they discuss how schools can make skills like collaboration, communication, and critical thinking explicit, visible, and measurable through authentic learning, reflection, advising, and real-world experiences. The conversation highlights the 3-4-3 framework for durable skills development and offers a compelling look at how student agency, professional identity, and informed career pathways are shaped when learning extends beyond the classroom. Outline (0:00) Introductions & Origin Stories (5:08) The 16-Month Research Study (32:59) Surfacing Evidence of Durable Skills (33:00) Communicating the Value of Innovative Schools (48:02) The 3-4-3 Framework Links Watch the full video here LinkedIn | Michael Crawford Linked In | Chris Unger Igniting the Flame: How Motivation Catalyzes Student Potential in Horizon 3 Education What Happens when you Launch Students' Interests into the World? Q&A with Michael Crawford (Youth Today) Chris Unger - A Revolution in Education Podcast America Succeeds Northeastern University Graduate School of Education  

In this episode of the Getting Smart Podcast, Shawnee Caruthers sits down with Dr. Whitney Oakley, superintendent of Guilford County Schools, to explore the Guilford Guarantee—a bold district commitment that every graduate leaves high school with college credit, an industry-recognized credential, or a meaningful work-based learning experience. The conversation highlights what it takes to build real-world learning at scale, from family and student listening to employer partnerships, advising systems, and cross-sector alignment. Dr. Oakley shares how Guilford County is turning a promise into a sustainable strategy for equity, access, and future-ready pathways for all learners. Outline (00:00) Introduction (04:45) The Guilford Guarantee (12:29) Aligning the System (19:05) Community Listening & Industry Partners (22:53) Sustaining the Promise Links Read the full blog here Watch the full video here LinkedIn Guilford County Schools Whitney Oakley - Chiefs for Change GCS Superintendent Dr. Whitney Oakley talks vision  

Outline (0:00) Introduction & Ancient Grains (6:45) Teaching Across Contexts (11:39) The Stimulation Gap (17:36) The Hook, Pitch, Awakening & Strengthening Framework (28:14) Civics, Democracy & the Classroom (37:19) Civic Virtues & the Role of Schools Links Read the full blog here Watch the full video here Dr. Douglas Yacek LinkedIn

In this episode of the Getting Smart Podcast, Mason Pashia sits down with Keri Rodrigues, founder and president of the National Parents Union, to explore the power of parent voice in education. From school safety and special education to report cards, trust, AI readiness, and student data privacy, Keri shares why families must be treated as true partners in shaping better learning experiences. This conversation is a powerful reminder that meaningful school change starts by listening to the people closest to students. Outline (00:00) Introduction (01:32) Keri's Origin Story (07:26) What Parents Are Frustrated About (12:20) School-Parent Communication & Engagement (24:03) Report Cards, Outcomes & Transparency (31:26) Technology, Data Privacy & Duty of Care Links Watch the full video here Read the full blog here LinkedIn National Parents Union  

In this episode of Catching Up, Nate McClennen and Mason Pashia explore the ideas shaping the future of learning and work—from the link between school innovation and enrollment demand to the rise of student influencers as a new form of district storytelling. They also dig into AI's growing role in education, including bias in feedback systems, the homogenizing effect of generative tools, and how AI may free teachers to spend more time on uniquely human work. The conversation also highlights the importance of agency, internships, and real-world learning, while ending with reflections on poetry, humility, and the power of noticing the world around us. Outline (0:00) Intro & Episode Preview (10:14) Student Influencers (12:51) AI Bias & Homogenization (27:01) Deep Dive: Agency & AI's Role in Education (50:17) What's That Song? Links Watch the full video here Read the full blog here Can Student Influencers Help This District Rebuild Enrollment? Personalized Bias in AI Writing Feedback Percentage of High School and College Students Ages 16 Through 24 Who Were Employed Shut Out: High School Students Learn About Careers but Can't Try One That Pays Student Agency Boosts Engagement and Readiness Agency in America We're About to Get Agency Wrong  

In this episode of the Getting Smart Podcast, Nate McClennen talks with Liza Garoznik, founder and CEO of Real Discussion, about one of the biggest questions in education today: how do we teach and assess durable skills like communication, listening, and collaboration? Framed by the rise of AI and growing concern about a "conversation crisis," the discussion explores why authentic interaction must be developed alongside artificial intelligence. Liza shares the origin story behind Real Discussion, explains the REAL framework—Relate, Excerpt, Ask, Listen—and offers practical insight into how schools can embed conversation skills into core academics while also measuring student growth, belonging, and engagement. Outline (0:00) Introduction & Durable Skills Framework (3:40) Liza's Story & Real Discussion Origins (11:23) The Conversation Crisis & Authentic Interaction (21:36) The REAL Framework & Teaching Discussion Skills (26:22) Assessment & Measuring Student Growth (34:19) Practical Tools & Future of Real Discussion Links Watch the full blog here Watch the full video here LinkedIn R.E.A.L. Discussion Liza Garonzik on Teaching Tomorrow's Human Skills Grade Discussion Skills, Not Discussions  

In this episode of the Getting Smart Podcast, Mason Pashia sits down with Joana Ponce and Catherine Alves, featured in Roadtrip Nation's Explore Your Interests, for a thoughtful conversation about passion, purpose, and the messy reality of career exploration. Together, they reflect on how exposure to new people and possibilities helped them rethink the idea of a single "right" path, and why learning to navigate uncertainty may be one of the most important skills young people can build. From journalism and activism to climate work and community-based learning, this episode is a powerful reminder that fulfilling futures are rarely linear—and that sometimes the most important step is simply staying open to what comes next. Outline (0:00) Introduction & Poetry (2:10) Non-Linear Career Paths (5:14) What Is Roadtrip Nation? (22:09) Passion, Purpose & Career Advice (29:11) What's Next Links Watch the full video here Read the full blog here Roadtrippers' Journeys Roadtrip Nation    

In this episode of the Getting Smart Podcast, Nate McClennen sits down with Dr. Adel DiOrio to explore how school leaders can move from fragmented initiatives to real coherence through knowledge management, transformational leadership, and coaching. Drawing on her research in rural school systems and insights from The Coach's Playbook, Adel shares why documenting what works, building strong relationships, and leading with intention are essential to sustaining improvement over time. From the power of "if you think it, ink it" to the life-changing influence of coaches and leaders, this conversation offers practical wisdom for principals, superintendents, teachers, and anyone working to build stronger, more human-centered schools. Outline (0:00) Introduction & Guest Welcome (5:56) Adel's Background & Career Path (12:05) Leadership & Building Cohesive Teams (19:07) Knowledge Management Research (24:08) Dissertation Findings & Practical Takeaways (37:51) The Coach's Playbook (47:06) Wrap-Up & Key Takeaways Links Watch the full video here Read the full blog here LinkedIn  

Why do so many promising ideas in education stay stuck in individual classrooms? In this episode of the Getting Smart Podcast, Nate McClennen talks with Rebecca Wolfe about what it takes to turn innovation into lasting system change. From teacher agency and school leadership to accountability and knowledge-sharing, they explore how schools can create the conditions for ideas to spread, scale, and ultimately support learner thriving. Outline (00:00) Intro & The Problem (12:46) Learning From AVID (24:42) School Leadership & Culture (34:15) The Macro Challenge (41:40) Hope & A Bias Toward Action Links Read the full blog here Watch the full video here LinkedIn  

Every school that has tried to change and failed has done so for the same reason: the system kept producing exactly the results it was designed to produce, and nobody changed the system. What Lake City Area Schools discovered — through honest self-examination, disciplined sequencing, and a refusal to mistake movement for progress — is that real transformation requires a different kind of courage than most improvement efforts demand. Not the courage to launch something new, but the courage to admit that the old system was working perfectly: producing disengagement on schedule, graduating students unprepared on time, and generating just enough compliance to keep the lights on. This is the story of what happens when a district decides that is not enough. Join Rebecca Midles, Tim Hejnal and Meghan Utech to learn more. 

In this episode of the Getting Smart Podcast, Tom Vander Ark speaks with Stephanie Reisner and Steph Loeck of GPS Education Partners about how work-based learning can transform student engagement, career readiness, and economic mobility. Drawing on 25 years of experience and their new book, Make School Work, they explore what makes work-based learning truly high quality, why employer preparation matters as much as student preparation, and how regional ecosystems can scale meaningful career-connected learning opportunities for more young people. Outline (00:00) Introduction (08:53) Defining High-Quality Work-Based Learning (11:26) Make School Work: The Book & Framework (21:58) Employer Partnerships & Regional Ecosystems (29:28) Metrics & Advice for Ed Leaders Links Watch the full video here Stephanie Reisner Steph Loeck GPS Education Partners Make School Work  

In this episode of the Getting Smart Podcast, Nate McClennen sits down with Vriti Saraf, CEO of Ed3, to explore a timely and essential question: How do we move from using AI for efficiency to using AI for human flourishing in education? Drawing on Ed3's new research, The Emerging Role of Teachers in the Age of AI, the conversation examines how artificial intelligence is already reshaping teaching, why the future of education must center human relationships, and what new teacher personas—like learning architect, life navigator, and community connector—might emerge in more adaptive, student-centered systems. Together, Nate and Vriti unpack the risks of automation, the promise of redesigned educator roles, and why this moment demands not just better tools, but a bold rethinking of teaching, learning, and equity. Outline (0:00) Introduction & Topic Overview (4:19) Genesis of the Portrait of a Teacher Project (14:57) AI's Impact on Human Connection & Teacher Relationships (22:23) Future Teacher Personas & Role Specialization (39:30) Hopes for the Future of Education Links LinkedIn Ed3 The Emerging Role of Teachers in the Age of AI  

In this episode of the Getting Smart Podcast, Nate McClennen sits down with Gianna Biaggi, founder and executive director of the Magnolia Project, to explore how schools can treat the community as campus. Together, they discuss how Magnolia Project connects middle and high school students with local mentors through immersive, hands-on learning experiences that build agency, engagement, and career awareness. From rural partnerships to durable skills to the power of reflection, this conversation highlights a compelling model for expanding real-world learning and helping every student imagine a future that fits who they are. Outline (00:00) Introduction & Expanded Learning (02:01) Gianna's Story: From Teacher to Founder (05:59) Building the Magnolia Project (12:00) The Program Model (21:18) Durable Skills & Student Outcomes (34:06) Lessons Learned & What's Next Links Watch the full video here LinkedIn Magnolia Project Magnolia Project's programs in Tomales Dream BIG: The Power of On-Campus Career Exploration Middle School Visit Day Teacher and Student Panel  

Are you interested in attending one of the field's largest gatherings of K-12 education innovators? The Aurora Institute Symposium 2023 promises community, lessons about education innovation from the field, and the latest research and policy to support education transformation. Find out more here.  On this episode of the Getting Smart Podcast, Nate McClennen is joined by Amit Sevak, the CEO of ETS, the largest private educational assessment organization in the world and Tim Knowles, the 10th president of the Carnegie Foundation for the Advancement of Teaching. Both Amit and Tim are long-term education leaders and entrepreneurs who have focused their careers on creating better opportunities for more people through education.  Together, they have formed a new partnership to rethink assessment and measurement.  Links: ETS ETS Team Page Carnegie Foundation Timothy Knowles Press Release about Partnership Mastery Transcript Consortium