Getting Work To Work

As listeners of this show know, I love asking my guests what they are endlessly curiosity about, but what I rarely take the time to consider is that we could overload our curiosity. What do we do when this happens? Today’s guest provides several insights into forming our personal answer to that question. Micah Kassell is a graphic designer, drummer, and a deeply creative soul fascinated with curiosity, belief, and cult-like behavior. From corporate boardrooms to stages, he’s learned to approach teamwork from the perspective of the drummer, as time keeper and vibe tender. In this conversation, we explore his obsession with aspirational and motivational speech that builds fans of brands and culture. We also talk about his journey into music and graphic design, how his dad’s creativity influenced his life and career, why baseball is an imagination sport, learning to win and lose in life and business, why the trio is his favorite band and team configuration, patience, limitations, highlights and shadows, and learning to document his creativity with improvisation and communication. Quotes: “The longest of shadows are when the magic really happens.” “Focus on doing really, really good and important things instead of just more things.” Show Links Micah Kassell Iron Maiden – The Trooper (Official Video) Dead Kennedys Steely Dan Rush Paul’s Boutique (20th Anniversary Edition / Remastered) A Tribe Called Quest Bill Evans Trio Ahmad Jamal Trio – Manhattan Reflections Minutemen live & interviewed 1985 Ansel Adams Pysanka Have a good time all the time Beabadoobee Angine de Poitrine Dan Harumi Episode photo from Envato Elements: Abstract Light and Shadow on Walls and Floors

The best conversations not only have interesting questions, but also the necessary time and space to think and respond when answers present themselves. From “What most often brings you joy?” and “What are you endlessly curious about?” to “What is the space you need to give yourself today?” and “Why does where you are matter?”, today’s guest and I dive deep into ourselves and share what we discover. Michael Hunter is the Founding Mentor of Uncommon Teams, a Coach, Podcaster, and Author of The Resilient Tech Leader: Harness the Power of Mind, Body, Spirit, and Heart to Lead with True Balance and Joy. Beyond the questions, we explore topics such as communication and science, why AI will never replace him, the solid foundations that allow him to have fun with change, what it means to be an uncommon hero, tiny experiments, resilience, and the simplest possible process. Quote from the Episode: “The most heroic thing I can do is to help you get in touch with your own inner hero, so that you can go on your own hero’s journey.” – Michael Hunter Show Links Uncommon Teams The Resilient Tech Leader: Harness the Power of Mind, Body, Spirit, and Heart to Lead with True Balance and Joy by Michael Hunter HERO Starter Kit (Adventure Kit – Cogsworth City) Disneyland and the Rise of Automation: How Technology Created the Happiest Place on Earth by Roland Betancourt Multiplicity (1996) Phrenology Hand, Hand, Fingers, Thumb by Al Perkins Mrs. Piggle-Wiggle by Betty MacDonald The Satir Change Model by Steven M Smith What About Bob? (1991) Royal Hunt by Raven Storm Episode Photo from Envato Elements: Color geometric architecture of Egypt

The longer your creative career lasts, the less written about your specific struggles. Writing and producing work for young professionals is enticing because there will always be an eager audience, hungry to succeed. They will 10x absolutely everything in order to keep up with the algorithm and crush the content calendar. The message never changes even though the audience does. But for the rest of us, time tempers all things. While your creativity continues to soar, your willingness to settle for long hours and low wages does not. You grow tired of playing the game. The message grows stale in your mouth. You still dream impossible dreams, but the truth is that you don’t need anything fancy, you just need to work on your craft. The patient reawakening has nothing to do with being the next hot commodity, it’s returning to you, practicing, focusing, and refining. Every single day. It’s not chasing popularity or relevance, it’s doing the work that resonates. Quote from Episode “We must train ourselves. Not to make spoons or jewelry or paintings or chairs but to be more competent, more forgiving, more patient. If we were simply training for production, there would be only engineering geared to cost-benefit analysis and not the value of Quality. But if you are truly interested in making changes in your work, if you are attempting to do work of Quality, then the work to be done is on you.” – Gary Rogowski, Handmade: Creative Focus in the Age of Distraction Questions Reawakening Question: Why do I keep going on? Awakening Question: Why did I start? Show Links Handmade: Creative Focus in the Age of Distraction by Gary Rogowski Guns N’ Roses – Patience Perfect Days (2023) Episode photo from Envato Elements: Rustic Metalworking Shop Interior with Forging Tools

What’s your gift to the world? What makes you uniquely different than everybody else? Why should I choose you? Three powerful questions from today’s conversation with John Ravaris, consultant, speaker, and author of Define Value, Drive Growth: Build a Business Clients Choose and Competitors Envy. In our conversation, John unpacks these questions and more, focusing on how uniqueness creates client value. He talks about his curiosity with what people and businesses are really trying to accomplish, what sales is and is not, how his 4D Roadmap—Discover, Develop, Deploy, and Delight—reveals what makes a business unique, the difference between a customer and a client, his approach to niching and standing out, and building your reputation by saying no and not chasing the shiny object. If your business is stuck positioning itself just like its competition, then it’s time to discover just how valuable uniqueness can be. Show Links John Ravaris | UVP Solutions Define Value, Drive Growth: Build a Business Clients Choose and Competitors Envy by John Ravaris Close Encounters of the Third Kind (1977) From Strength to Strength: Finding Success, Happiness, and Deep Purpose in the Second Half of Life by Arthur C. Brooks The Meaning of Your Life: Finding Purpose in an Age of Emptiness by Arthur C. Brooks Episode photo from Envato Elements: Colorful Rock Texture with Lichen and Vegetation

Years ago, I was having coffee with a friend and he asked me if I wanted his old 3D printer. It had been awhile since I modeled anything in 3D and I couldn’t visualize the process, so I declined with a simple statement, “I need to learn to see first.” I’m shaking my head at my ignorance. Have I learned to see yet? Nope, I haven’t. I haven’t even tried. What I did was miss out on an opportunity to dive in and have fun learning something completely new. Vision doesn’t show up because we see something, it’s revealed through our experiences. It’s the combination of our senses and the understanding we earn as a result of our efforts. In today’s monologue, I’m going to dive deeper into how we can develop our creative vision by doing our work, sharing it with others, and refining it along the way. Six areas of vision that are lost when I say something as dismissive as “I need to learn to see first”: Vision starts with imagination, but it’s much more than that. Vision is fueled by knowledge built upon research and examination. As I said in the previous monologue, “vision is the living embodiment of creative expression.” Courage is essential for turning vision into reality. I want to reiterate what I said in the previous monologue: “Don’t conform to someone else’s vision for your life.” I’m also going to add don’t conform to someone else’s vision for your work as well. Your vision is about our future. Show Links MasterClass david carson design Earth, Wind & Fire (To Be Celestial vs. That’s the Weight of the World) Episode photo from Envato Elements: Abstract Digital Light Rays Shining Outward

Of all the questions today’s guest asks in our conversation, the biggest of them all is this: “What does it mean to be alive?” Making his sixth appearance on the show, Christopher Butler is a designer, communicator, and deep thinker not afraid to ask tough questions and explore obscure topics. Our conversation begins with nature journaling, the joy of slowing down, observing, and modeling wonder for others. From there, we explore what it means to trust information, the role of modern propaganda and disinformation in our technical society, and the importance of having a consensus, shared reality. Ever deeper, we question purpose, meaning, and what we leave behind to the next generation. As Chris models throughout this conversation, open your mind as we go on this adventure together. Quotes from the Episode: “What is it that I really do? What is the thing that is indispensable that I bring to the table?” “It’s not about what you’re good at, it’s about who you are.” Show Links Christopher Butler Signals #004: What Doesn’t Compress by Christopher Butler Newfangled The Scrap Exchange Offline Magazine Renée DiResta Invisible Rulers: The People Who Turn Lies Into Reality by Renée DiResta The Rights of Man by Thomas Paine The Art of Doing Science and Engineering: Learning to Learn by Richard W. Hamming What Wendell Berry Saw Coming by Joshua Heath Scott SmarterEveryDay The Only Planet of Choice: Essential Briefings From Deep Space by Phyllis V. Schlemmer The Stargate Conspiracy: The Truth about Extraterrestrial life and the Mysteries of Ancient Egypt by Lynn Picknett & Clive Prince Other Tongues Other Flesh by George Hunt Williamson Episode photo from Envato Elements: Abstract Dark Background with Blue, Pink, and Orange

What are the things you’ve studied, explored, or even built a body of work around, but ultimately moved away from? As creative professionals, we are wanderers and explorers, constantly searching and striving for new experiences and techniques. But what do we do when we feel the call to return to past areas of study? We are different than before, so why would we even think of doing this, let alone grapple with the feelings that we’re selling out or short-changing our evolution? The creative process is like the tide, it comes in, it goes out. We stay and go. Not everyone chooses to return, but if we do, we must honor the past with who we’ve become, and have a vision for something beyond what we could ever do before. It’s not about nostalgia or taking shortcuts, it’s about transformation. That’s the creative return. “Writing an introduction to the tenth anniversary edition of Weaveworld last year I remarked on much of the same thing: The man who’d written that book was no longer around. He’d died in me, was buried in me. We are all our own graveyards I believe; we squat amongst the tombs of the people we were.” – Books of Blood: Volumes One to Three by Clive Barker 8 Reasons Why We Would Return to Earlier Forms of Creative Expression: Control Ability Patience Focus Process Evolution Revolution Vision Show Links Books of Blood: Volumes One to Three by Clive Barker CS50’s Introduction to Programming with Python Episode photo from Envato Elements: Aerial view of hand working with spatula with acrylic paint on p

I want to prime you with a question asked by today’s guest during our conversation: “What does it mean for you to be fully expressed as a human being in whatever shape that takes?” So much of our life and work is spent in opposition to what we actually want, and yet the possibilities are truly endless. Sarah Bush is a mixed media artist who explores “the relationship between materials and ideas” with fiber, metal, handmade books, and the written word. In our conversation, we dive deep into imagination, the creative process, and the importance of struggle in our work. We also talk about healing through our work, making work that is true versus good, how risk changes as we get older, the role of mystery in her work, the threads that weave through it all, how to commit to your vision, and Sarah’s obsession with scale. Show Links Sarah Bush Artworks What’s Wrong with Hard? – The Pink Teacup Paul Simon David Byrne Robert Plant Devin Townsend A World Appears: A Journey into Consciousness by Michael Pollan Transcript Chris Martin: It’s always fun when you meet people for the first time and they just put you in a place of not ease, but just calm and peace and excitement for the conversation. And I think you just bring an energy to the Zoom room of just that. So welcome to the show. Sarah Bush: Thank you so much. I’m so happy to be here. CM: Awesome. Well, I love asking this question of everyone I talk with, and it’s, what are you endlessly curious about? SB: Well, one of the reasons that I make art is that it feeds my endless curiosity. And it’s one of the places in the world where I can’t be bored. And also partly because I set the terms. So that really interests me. The creative process and how it works, I find that really interesting, and I do find exploring how to use my imagination as almost like a spiritual practice, a lifelong endeavor. And so all the things I love to do most, make art, garden, spiritual work, it’s all, to me, those will keep me busy till I’m dead. CM: What a great way to describe it, ’cause I feel like we look at work as this thing that we do drudgingly until we die, as opposed to how you just phrased it as like, “This is gonna keep me busy until I’m dead.” And there’s almost a freedom to that, as opposed to the drudgery nature of how we often look at it. SB: That’s right, and I think that’s like owning your work. And understandably, a lot of people can’t own their work, when it’s externally imposed upon you it can feel a lot like drudgery. But then I think we can also treat anything really challenging as drudgery. And one of my other big mantras is—I wrote a blog post called What’s Wrong with Hard?—and it’s one of my more popularly read ones. I’m glad it’s popular because I think we live in a culture obsessed with natural talent and things that come easily, and when something doesn’t, people think, “Oh, that’s not my thing.” And I think, oh, how strange. That anything worth doing is usually hard, and that if you’re just okay with it being hard, then it kinda opens up a lot. CM: It’s so interesting that you said that too, because one of the areas that I have a lot of conversation around is friction, and that needed component of work that, yes, it is hard, it is challenging. That’s how you develop the abilities, the skills to continually do your work. And yet I think we do live in a society that wants things to make it easier for us, for whatever reason. I don’t know why. SB: I know. I think some of it is because we have this thing about natural talent and natural abilities that other cultures actually don’t have so strongly. And I also think what’s so interesting about that is that those aspects of our work, like the things that we do find hard, they’re almost like a spiritual practice too. I think basically what’s hard for me is that I’m facing the thing in myself, like my anxiety, I don’t know how to do this. What I’m bumping up against is often internal about the process that I find where all the friction is really, and that, like I always thought as an artist, I try to, when I’m talking to other artists about pricing, like I was a designer for a long time, and we all had to pr- I kind of enjoy it, but it took, you’re really bumping up against your feelings of self-worth. All those issues come up, and so it’s like an opportunity really to heal that stuff, through your work, through this thing you’re giving your time to, and treating it like this little lens onto what’s going on inside. CM: That’s interesting. What was that process to go from the world of design and wrestling against the self-worth and charging and pricing to then that point of expansion to where you enter the world of art and you’re like, “Okay, this is what I’m doing now,” and it sounds like there’s a lot of freedom that showed up for you. SB: Yes and no. I also think design, it tends to be more concrete. You have these concrete parameters and you’re working with them, and there is something soothing about that. And then you’re still facing things, like if I’m making a product, I’ve designed so much jewelry and so many personal accessories and you’re in a meeting and discussing the price, it’s much more nuts and bolts. When you have a painting that you made and the price feels much more about, like you’re pricing your soul or something. And then you have to kind of still address that and think about how to hold that lightly. Sometimes from my design background, I’ll think, “Well, with that price, I had to make things that were wholesale.” So now, if a gallery has my art, what’s the price? If someone comes into my studio, what’s the price? So it’s still varied. I just think that answering to yourself with your work, regardless of whether you sell it or not, that’s where that freedom lies that you’re talking about, where you make something that resonates for yourself. And you are trying to make something true more than you’re trying to make something good. And that is to me where you get more committed to your process. CM: Oh, that’s really interesting. True versus good. SB: I think about that all the time. Because when you go to art school, you really learn how to make something good or you try to make something good. And in a funny way, you have to unlearn a lot of that if you wanna make something true, and it will push you to make something that maybe won’t be good at the end, and it’s true. And then you maybe that expands your capacity. And then also it helps me more understand when people are new to making work, they’re very driven to make something good, and that is where all the angst is because when you’re new at something, it’s harder to make something good. And then everyone talks about how you should feel so great about making something bad. I think that’s not easy to like making something bad, but I also think kind of honoring it is important, honoring it as part of your process and as part of your journey. And I’ve made work, I’ve felt like, “Oh, that fell on its sword for me. And now I can make the thing correctly now.” CM: I feel like we don’t let time speak enough in our lives in terms of how long it takes to be able to make something good. I think about when I was younger just starting out and, yeah, you’re right, I felt that in order to be worthy of what I was doing, I had to make something good immediately. SB: Yes. I think there is a great pressure there, and I also think social media kind of creates that illusion. You see a lot of things that seem to happen in a one-minute video, and that part, you know, is hard. And also, don’t you find that as you get older, there’s less risk for me to make something bad because I’ve made a lot of things I consider good. And so, yeah, that one didn’t work out. It’s not such a verdict about my ability as it is when you’re starting and you don’t have things that you’re proud of yet. And I think that stuff’s really legitimate and bringing more awareness to what’s happening. So really, the stakes are lower for me to screw up at this point. And so I can tell you to screw up and enjoy it, but I think it’s a way of finding that mercy with yourself when you’re having the courage to make something and try to express yourself. CM: What comes to mind as you’re talking about this too is my wife and I watch a lot of competitive cooking shows, and inevitably someone always says, “You know, if I win this, it’ll prove to my parents, prove to my family members that all this time spent was worth it.” And it’s just like, “Uh, okay that’s kinda sad,” you know? SB: Yes, and darn it. That’s the other weird part on a social level that people maybe aren’t that comfortable with you committing to something that doesn’t show quick success, that doesn’t make you money. One of the things I used to always say is that it’s such a reflection on our culture. When you make something, one of the biggest compliments that someone will give is, “Wow that’s so good you could sell it.” That’s the framework that the culture has offered to determine something’s value. And so that’s why it’s also so important that you can sell it. And why so many of us artists have this angst about that, or these cooking show people who are trying to prove that they could get that great chef’s job or whatever it is. CM: Value is one of those conversations too that is very challenging, whether you’re a artist or a designer. And I think sometimes I feel like it’s not the right conversation to have. I feel it’s one of those conversations that we let us distract from answering the question, what do you want to do with your life? Because personally, I spent 20 years trying to satisfy other people and still struggled. And yet, as I move forward, I’m thinking, “How can I answer this call that I have in my spirit in a way that might actually yield better valued results down the line?” I don’t actually know, but I’m willing to go that way because history has proven that this other way that I was doing wasn’t actually valuable. SB: That’s right. I agree with that, and also in a funny way, social media exacerbates that. “Like me! Like me!” If you have a lot of likes, you’re validated, but from an artist point of view, it’s so clear there’s certain kind of art that’s gonna get a like online. Very graphic, very bold. So it’s very hard to see something on a phone, the image is the tiny image. All of it. You know, it’s not really that much of a direct experience, so it skews, you know? If you make work that doesn’t really take photograph well or all those things. CM: And there’s so much more to our senses than just vision. My mom makes handmade bags, and so she sews and makes bags. And when I see people walk up to them, sometimes they’re afraid to even touch them, as if they’re gonna break the bag. And usually it’s the people who walk up and start undoing the button and seeing what’s inside and having that tactile experience, they’re the ones that tend to probably purchase more than the people who just kind of view it as this art that would just sit there and not do anything. SB: So interesting, that willingness to engage and connect with it. And also, I think, um- I mean, what’s, one, one, one nice thing about that is they are at least being reverential kind of about the handmade object. And I think that we have so little of that. Like, people are so unaware of how most things are made that it makes it really hard to appreciate that. Like, for an American artist, like when I work with natural dyes or things like that, like people get those things from people in other cultures and countries that whose cost of living is completely different. And, it’d be really hard to compensate someone appropriately here. I have a friend who’s an unbelievable knitter. And people are always saying, “Oh, you should sell those.” And she’s thinking, “Would you pay $1,000 for them?” I don’t think you would. So some things are even hard to sell, you know? CM: One of the interesting things about you, Sarah, is you do multiple things. So you aren’t just, like, um, you know, you aren’t just like a painter. You are, you are many things, and I love that you describe your art as the exploration of the relationship between materials and ideas. Like, that, to me, was mind-blowing. Because oftentimes we think of art as the idea and the relationship between the idea and the audience. But I like even taking it back and saying, how do these ideas and materials work together? And so have you always had this clarity about this freedom from the weight of specialization and not feeling like you need to niche down and stay in your lane, and all those stupid phrases that we use to keep people, like, stuck in this homogenous world of categorization? SB: I used to kind of beat myself up. I used to say, “Oh, jack of all trades.” CM: Master of none. SB: Master of none. Because, I always worked in multiple things and that gets kind of penalized, I’d say. And then I finally was like, “Screw it,” you know? “This is who I am and what I’m gonna do, and I just have to honor that.” Otherwise, I just can’t make what I make. And I like fusing things. I feel like the important thing a little bit is to not just learn techniques to learn them. Like, I’m usually trying to figure out how it helps me express something. Like, when I want a particular technique or I wanna use a different material, I have a reason generally. And even if I’m learning, like I can explore a technique when I’m not sure of that, but always I’m thinking, you know, how is this serving my- muse or what I want, you know, what is this doing? ‘Cause I’ll s- sometimes I’ll start, I’ll try to solve a problem, like I’m in the middle of something. Mm, it’s not working. Maybe I need to try something else. I, I go down this rabbit hole, and then I might come out of that rabbit hole saying, “No, no.” Or I’m very drawn to materials, and then I’m seeking to see how that relates back to, like, my kind of priorities and, and generally how I express myself or the ideas that really interest me. CM: Do you have an example of something recently that you kinda dove into to kind of explore as you’re talking about this, this something new or this new idea? SB: I really like to try something new in the winter. Like, I’m hunkered inside. I decided to learn how to do rust printing on fabric. So I have a fiber degree, which I then kinda walked away from and, and became a real mixed-media artist. Like, do- in all my design jobs, blah, blah, and then on the side of what I was doing my mixed-media artwork. And then in the last few years I feel like I’ve done this return and doing new things about it. When I was getting my master’s degree it wasn’t, natural dyes for instance weren’t really big, but that’s something that’s really important to me now. So playing with those. So I was learning this rust because I was just intrigued- By the process. And then as I’m learning it, I am, you know, watching different videos and then thinking, I’m trying these different fabrics. I’m always asking myself, which one is resonating with me? Why is that resonating? What do I want out of that? Like, I put this on this Japanese cotton. I’m like, “Yeah, it’s all right. I probably won’t, I don’t need to do that anymore.” Then I do silk charmeuse and I’m like, “Oh, yes. Okay. This is right. I… Okay. This can help me explore my interest in symbols and images.” ‘Cause I’m laying these rusty pieces down and I’m getting these really sharp, clear images, which is blowing me away. And then the shimmer of the charmeuse is sort of luscious to me. Then I’ll play with the form. I start making them very long and narrow, and I’m thinking, “Oh, is that, like, a priest’s stole around the neck?” Or, oh, now I’m thinking, “Ah, I’m gonna riff on these very early…” I like book arts and I like these very early book forms. And I was reading about these very early Chinese books, and so they, they tore strips of bamboo off the bamboo, and they wrote down in it. And I even think, someone can correct me who’s listening if I’m wrong, that that’s why they write vertically is because their first sort of papers were long and narrow. And so I think, “Oh, my long and narrow charmeuse, like, now I’m gonna grow off this, my book.” ‘Cause I saw all these bamboo sheets lined up, and I thought, “Oh, I’m doing that, but with silk and with the rust.” And then I’ll blend it. I’ll experiment with blending it with the indigo or different tannins to get subtle gradations of tone that, you know, maybe help express this mystery I’m trying to communicate or something. CM: It’s that mystery that’s so captivating, isn’t it? SB: Yes. I have a series I’ve been working in for a while that I call Bowing to the Mystery, but I almost feel like that’s all my work. That’s what I’m trying to do with all my art is bow to the mystery. CM: I love the way you lit up when you started talking about that exploration, too, because I think there’s power in that. That power to be almost that childlike- part of your soul that, that is willing to just try something even if it’s not gonna work, and you have no proof or reason. SB: And there’s plenty of them that don’t work, and then you have this handful that does work. And then it feels like a conversation, you know? I really like all the subtlety there of the conversation with the materials. CM: How do you then bring that back to other parts of your practice then? So if you’re doing rust printing on silk charmeuse, how do you bring that back to a canvas or metal or different things that you might do? SB: Well, it’s more like, oh, am I starting a new body of work based on those? I already had bought these headboards from a thrift store, like of an old children’s bed. So then I thought, “Oh, I’m gonna cut those up, reshape them.” So I go to the saw and I’m reshaping them, and then I’m like, “Ooh, I love this shape.” And now my strips will hang from there. And then I’m thinking about Indian art and Persian art and all the looking, looking, looking that I do and things moving. Then it becomes more like how my priorities get expressed through different media. The same priorities getting expressed through different media. The shininess thing, it’s always with me. I’ve worked on metal, literally worked on metal, then I was working making these large black pieces with Queen Anne’s lace that I pressed, and I’m painting them and people are coming into my studio saying, “Are those metal?” I’m thinking, “Oh, that’s so interesting that that looks like…” But I’m using powdered graphite on them, and so they have the sheen. And then the silk charmeuse, it’s the shiny stuff I want. So there’s always these interconnecting threads of how each thing is relating to each other even though- On the surface or on the immediate moment, they might look quite different. CM: I love the use of the word thread, too, ’cause it’s both literal and metaphorical for you. SB: That’s right. That is often my metaphor, and that’s no accident. CM: I think that’s the important thing that people don’t think enough about, especially those who want to explore different mediums, is that in a sense they are the thread through their work. As opposed to needing to find some organizing principle that makes sense to the external world or something. Let yourself be the thread that weaves through your work. SB: That’s exactly right. That’s almost like a sacred thing; don’t cheapen that. And also, I think that there is a rush to niche yourself, and I see people doing that where I think, “No, no, no, no. Keep going. Keep going. You’re just getting started. Don’t, don’t rush there.” Because you might make a few things that are good in a certain way, and then you start to think, “Oh, that’s my voice.” And I think your voice is bigger than that. Let your voice bloom. Don’t get too narrow too quickly so that you can say you have a style, because you don’t wanna just mimic yourself. I don’t like it when I feel like someone, I’m thinking, “Are you just making the same painting over and over?” What are you doing? It’s a little over product-y for me, I guess. Even though I love products and I love objects. I like things. I’ve made so many things. I like them. I like packaging the little things. I like all that stuff. CM: I think about music a lot, and one of the things that always intrigues me are the artists who almost become the band who’s the legacy artist. You know, like The Rolling Stones or, you know, you get a little bored because they’re just playing the hits. And yet there’s the artists who reinvent themselves, sometimes to the detriment of success or to the fan base because, oh, there they go, they’re, you know, doing something different again. And yet as an artist, you look at that going, “I want that freedom to be willing to chase and follow where my creativity goes, and hopefully my audience will as well.” SB: I have so much respect for that. Like the Paul Simons of the world or the David Byrnes or Robert Plant. You’re a committed musician. It wasn’t like something, you were in your 20s, you happened to be in a band that got popular, and now you’re in your 70s thinking, “We could all make a bunch of money if we just play those old songs again,” and people get to go down memory lane. That’s what’s happening at those shows where it’s really in service of someone’s memory, where it’s just about that nostalgia. But when they’re just really committed to their craft, I think that’s great. I’m exactly there with you on that, and those are the people that I really admire. CM: There’s this one artist that I follow. He’s from Canada, and he’s done everything from extreme metal to ambient soundscapes. And his latest album took 10 years to make, and it’s actually a combination of all those sounds, and there’s just so much respect for that ’cause it’s just like on a commercial level I can’t imagine it being popular, and yet he has a fan base that gives him the freedom to explore that. And I think what that does for me is it expands the language of possibility that is constricted by what the world tells me I should be and do. SB: Yes. It’s liberating. He’s role modeling how to be committed to your own vision through all that sound collection. I know exactly why he’s collecting those sounds. That’s how I am. Like, I’m collecting, collecting to help me put them together. The way I want. CM: Sarah, you said something a little bit ago that really got me thinking, and it was the creative return to what you studied before. And you were talking about your art degree and all that. I think a lot about return, and that the creative process is as much about leaving as it is coming back, and that relationship between going and staying. There’s a rhythm there that I think is important. SB: Fascinating. And in that sense, I wonder if there’s parts of you that know it before your brain knows it. When my husband and I moved to New Mexico several years ago, we were looking at different houses, and each one I was like, “Well, where’s my studio gonna be?” Don’t tell me about that guest bedroom. That’s not adequate. We came into this building that we live in now, and it had almost like a whole other side. And I was like, “Oh, this whole place, this place could be my studio.” And it had this little rustic kitchen, and I was so charmed, and I said out loud, “That’ll be my dye studio.” I thought, “Why did I even say that? I’m not dyeing anything.” And that’s exactly what it is. It’s my dye studio. It’s my dye kitchen. So it’s like I almost felt some part of me knew it before my brain knew it. CM: That connection of our body to our space is so important, and I don’t think we think enough about that. SB: I agree. And also trying to honor who you are in your space by asking for a space that gives you what you need when you can do that. CM: I’ve seen a photo of your studio that you’re talking about, and it honestly looks like something out of a movie. SB: Oh my God. CM: And I’m curious how that space inspires your creativity. When you moved there and you started to let your creativity inhabit that space, how did you change as a result? SB: Well, I wonder if having that separate kitchen really opened that up. It opened up two things for me. It opened up having a nice space to make a giant mess of starting seeds inside in that kitchen, and then also I can dye things. No one really encourages a lot of dyeing of fabric in your regular eating kitchen. So having this little rustic kitchen to do that in, the space helped me then create. I didn’t have to assert myself so much, like go hunt a place down, and that part then allows that to blossom. And I think that it would be hard to think of making very large work in a very small space. And so you are inhabiting a space, and it is affecting your imagination, I would say. Not like making large work is superior or anything, but it does, I think, change what you make. What can you get out the door? And even when I was looking at that space, we had to renovate a little, ’cause it’s a live-work space. We live here. I got doors made that had a garage door, and I thought, “Well, I need these… I can’t have these doors open because they’re gonna use up too much wall space. I need them.” And the guy’s like, “What if they slide?” And then I was like, “Yeah, okay. Sliding works.” And they open up more, and that would let me get something outside… CM: Oh, cool. SB: …that was bigger. And then, for someone who’s thinking, “I can’t do any of that,” one thing that does strike me that a lot of people do who are creative is they give themselves no space in their home. Our house is a place we do things. It’s not a showplace. And yeah, that means I have to clean like a mad woman maybe when people come over. People who are very neat, you can’t really create if you put everything away. You’re really inhibiting that ability because you have to look at those things. Things have to be out. Or a guest room, and I think, “Well, how many times do you have guests? Why is this sitting here like a hotel room?” I get the importance of a guest room, but if it’s 10% of the time, you should be using that the other 90% for yourself and your creativity. And if you are super neat, it’s a room that you can be less neat in and then shut the door. CM: Right. And just start throwing paint in there. SB: Yeah. Let’s see what happens. I’ll tell people, you know, if your sewing machine’s in the closet, you’re not using it. Period. It has to be out or you’re not gonna use it. CM: Right. Doesn’t matter the tool if it’s not there, out of sight, out of mind. SB: That’s right. If you get the urge and then you take everything out, by that time something else has happened and you can’t keep going. CM: I laughed when you said, “Can you get your art out the door?” I built a workbench in my space here and I couldn’t get it out the door ’cause I made it too wide. You don’t really think about things like that until you actually make something. I think scale is important, especially in the digital world, because right now our scale is the size of our hand in a sense of our phones or our tablets or our TV screens, and that’s small comparatively speaking. SB: I can’t believe you brought that up. I’m obsessed with scale, and on the internet, to me, the most deceptive thing is scale. It’s very difficult to appreciate the size of anything. And we have no idea. Just because you know how to mail a letter doesn’t really mean you know anything about shipping a container. You’re still mailing something completely different experience. When you change scale, everything changes. CM: Yes. Just thinking about moving to another area and taking your entire house and putting it in a truck, that’s hard to do. It’s hard to conceive of that, and yet when that happens, it allows how you think and your imagination to change as follows. SB: That’s right. Just like when you learn a new technique or a new tool, it changes your imagination. It changes what you can think up, because now you have more skills to utilize with your imagination, and your imagination will accommodate you accordingly. CM: At what point in your journey did imagination really enter your picture as something that you wanted to think and write about? SB: I feel like my imagination is my best friend. I really rely on my imagination. I trust it. And then several years ago, I got involved in a small spiritual community where they were talking about the imagination more, and on a spiritual level. And because the imagination matters to me, I was very struck by that. And I was very struck by the idea of using my imagination as a tool of connection, a way to expand my understanding of the universe, deepen into my sense of myself in the web of life. All those things that felt like they mattered so much. We have kind of an Earth-based focus in this group, it’s almost like how the imagination can be a form of prayer. Just in its connective capacity, really, and even imagination as becoming and it’s so much more than creating, and even so, the universe is constantly creating itself. When we create, we are a part of that constant creation and there’s not a lot of conscious awareness to me about that. And then the same thing is true with the imagination. A lot of people will tell me they don’t have much of an imagination, and yet everyone on a low grade way is using their imagination every day. Everything around us in this, in our built environment started in someone’s imagination. All the problems that we’re in now started in someone’s imagination. The human imagination got us into this mess, and the human imagination is gonna get us out. We have to start realizing that our imaginations have that capacity, and that we could take responsibility for our imaginations by embracing them, and understanding how our imaginations work so that when someone tries to hijack your imagination, that you understand what’s happening, and then you can stop handing over your power and, and take it back and understanding the reason someone hijacks your imagination is your imagination is very powerful. So when they start insinuating a lot of terrible things that that might happen, and then each separate one of us picks the terrible thing that scares us the most, and tell, and fills in the blanks. Our fear and our imagination are very old friends. But our dreams, our hopes, our love, those can also be old friends with our imagination. We just have to be willing to consciously embrace that. CM: I love that reminder that imagination is a spectrum between fear and hope. And it just kind of reminds me of you can’t be necessarily in one place and hope for the other. You can’t be in hope and thinking about fear. You can’t be fearful and thinking about hope, in a sense. It’s hard. SB: That’s right. It’s also natural that part of our survival mechanism is our fear and our imagination’s relationship in our amygdala brain or whatever. But also, being willing to take responsibility for that. When I’m worrying, I’m using my imagination to come up with the worst-case scenario. And then I can stop doing that. And I can ask my imagination to do something else. CM: How have you learned to incorporate your imagination in your creative process? ‘Cause sometimes with the creative process, it’s just like input, process, output, input, process, output. But an important part of input comes into the process, and then the imagination starts to do something that the process could never contain, if you let it. SB: Our imaginations love a container, and your art can be that container. And it gives it, the imagination, a place to land and grow. An idea in your imagination, it can help it evolve. And as you get more familiar with that, you use it more. I just taught a little class, and kind of that process through the act of making something very concrete, like sort of finding out how you’re feeling, then trying to take the next step with making this object based on that, and then getting to the real thing that you’re caring about. And through that give and take between your idea or the concept of what you might make based on your feelings, for instance, and then wrap it, trying to wrap it in this container, a thing, a painting, uh, a toy, then using that vehicle, that container to listen and ask yourself. It’s like when you allow that first step, maybe that all comes out and then you’re like, “Is that really what I mean? Is that what I mean? Is this really what I mean?” And this, it becomes to me like a conversation between the materials and the ideas. Like that, oh, the materials, you’re trying to put it somewhere that makes sense to you, so that’s why you’re doing it that way. Things are allowed to emerge because you are in this play between the materials in the process and your… So even if your idea’s kind of nascent, you’re not really, it’s hard for you to have words for that idea. It’s like a listening. And so for me, it’s like a trusting of my imagination. So like even when you’re listening to your work, you’re really trusting your imagination, instead of dismissing something that’s coming into your head. That tight relationship between your intuition and your imagination, and if it pops into my head, I trust that. CM: It’s funny that you mention trust, ’cause that was the thing that was in my mind as you were talking. How did you learn to trust that voice, to trust your imagination? ‘Cause I think sometimes we look at this idea that comes into our mind, and we only trust it if it has economic value or there’s some clear ROI or whatever business term we wanna throw on that idea, and essentially drown it under some weight of responsibility. And yet, if we don’t trust our imagination, we could never get there. SB: That’s right. And we also could never get to a new place.Sometimes making art you can be thinking, “Oh, no one’ll buy that.” “If I do that, no one’s buying that piece. It’s too weird,” or something. And then you’re basically refusing to listen. And it’s in tandem with being on your own side. And I feel like when we’re really self-critical or when we’re being perfectionist…I really think perfectionism is a form of self-violence and people can be very attached to their perfectionism, like it’s a high standard. But I think holding yourself to a high standard is different. When you finally decide that you’re willing to be on your own side then you have to practice being on your own side. Instead of like, “Oh, look at this piece of shit I just made.” “This sucks.” And then the little story gets going. See, what was I thinking? And then your imagination’s like, “Oh, I’ll help you there.” If we wanna talk about how, what a piece of crap you are. Like you, you know, you’ve honed that. And so it’s sort of like being unwilling to continue that path. And then I think you have to… So that’s like sort of I guess finding your why really, like why do you wanna do it enough? One of my obsessions is being all in on my life. It’s my life. I’m here. I don’t wanna lie on my death bed and be like, “Oh, I was afraid to make a bad art.” You know? I would find that very disappointing. Oh, I didn’t wanna do that thing ’cause I thought someone would reject me. And I still struggle with those things, but my driver is strong to overcome that. When you do, if you do decide to do that, when you get rewarded, like where the maybe the piece works out because you took a risk or you listened, then it’s a little easier to try again. CM: I’m just taking that all in, ’cause you just dropped something incredibly important that I want to sit with and that I hope the audience sits with. Always looking for the out so that you don’t have to, in a sense, do the hard thing, do the thing that you know you really wanna do, sometimes you can expend all of your energy just looking for the out so that you don’t have to step up. That is what I’ve done for so long, was looking for the out. And so, as you’re sharing this connection back to yourself, back to your life, it’s an invitation. It’s an invitation to not be afraid of yourself anymore. SB: Yeah and to be your own ally. Don’t think I have it all figured out. I just have my mission, you know? That’s what I want for myself. I wanna not be afraid. Especially when a lot of those things we have to be afraid of. But there’s a lot of things that we make up to be afraid of. CM: I’m just very grateful because I think what you have allowed your imagination to do in this conversation is to show the way forward in a way that is life-affirming, art-giving, and expansive, as opposed to shutting someone down, putting them in a box, making it too constrictive. I’m very grateful of what you’re doing right now ’cause I think it’s so necessary. Your voice is so powerful and needed in this world. SB: Oh, thank you so much. Gosh. CM: That’s the thing that I love about these conversations, you’re able to connect with someone that you’ve never met before, to connect with their mission. And I hope it reveals to other people what their mission could be, and that they see that it’s worthy to go all in on that. SB: Yes. That’s a lot of my writing, I think. What does it mean for you to be fully expressed as a human being in whatever shape that takes. Why not commit to that? Not because you know what’ll happen, because there’s such dignity in taking the risk. There’s such dignity in throwing yourself into it, and when we see that in other people, generally we’re really rooting for them. CM: It’s really hard to root for someone if all your experience of them is just this talking video that’s muted on Instagram. But as you start actually conversing with them or interacting with their writing or their thinking they start to become this fully formed human being, as opposed to just some digital avatar talking at you. SB: Yeah, or if you only see everything that looks perfect. So when we moved here, we had this crazy yard. Like, it’s really hard to garden here in New Mexico, like the hardest I’ve ever had. And I was out in this yard, and it’s on a busy-ish corner, and I’d be out there throwing myself into like pickaxing, the wind is blowing, and ‘m just all immersed in my thing, struggling. My struggle was extremely overt and people would yell out the window like, “You go, girl.” I thought people just loved seeing you willing to throw yourself into it. I had somebody walk up behind me like, “It so inspires me what you’re trying to do here.” He got out of his car. Like I jumped out of my skin. He was going, “I’m so sorry. I have to go visit my mother, and I just wanted to come up and tell you.” And I just think it’s that, that’s as simple as being honest with your struggle. Because there’s just integrity to it. No one can take it from you. And I get it about being revealed. It’s hard for me to show my works in progress, but I do show my sketchbook pages now, which has been really good for me in my posts on The Pink Teacup. And so it’s like a spectrum there as well. But you know, I often think about someone like Oprah. She doesn’t understand that the fact that she struggled with her weight her whole life was what made her so accessible. The reason she had all these women who loved her is that angst about her weight. It wasn’t like she was heavy and was fine with it. She wasn’t fine with it. She was constantly struggling with it. But that’s what made her human, because if she didn’t have that struggle, it would seem like she had no problems. And so it was the way to connect. The vulnerability. CM: Yeah, that connection through struggle as well. Cause then it’s like, “Oh, you don’t have it all together. Oh, you’re not, you know, innately talented with what you’re doing, yet you’re really good at what you’re doing. So maybe I need to change a story about what I think about talent or, you know, success.” SB: That’s right. Yes, because a lot of people think, “Well, those people, it’s just easy for them, and it’s really hard for me.” I think like, “No, no, it’s hard for them.” Make no mistake, It’s hard for them. CM: Well, Sara, I could honestly talk with you all day long. You are a bundle of positive energy and creative energy, and I’m all for that. But, um, thank you for being here. And as we end our time together, is there a bit of wisdom other than the last hour that you’ve shared that you’d like to leave with the audience? SB: Know that you’re creative, know that you have an imagination, and that when you are trying to explain to me in your head right now that you’re not, that that’s just a story you’re telling yourself, and there’s a myriad ways of expressing all of that, and art is just one of them. CM: Well said. Well, final question for you. Is there a book, podcast, or resource that’s blowing your mind right now? SB: I’ve been following all the little trails about plants having consciousness. And Michael Pollan’s doing the route of all the famous podcasters talking about plant consciousness. But I also follow a lot of smaller people who are talking about plant consciousness, and I find that a very exciting topic. CM: Ooh. So what is plant consciousness? SB: Just the fact that they have consciousness. And that just because maybe they don’t have a face like we’re used to things that do, that we assign consciousness to ourselves, mammals that we comprehend, things like that, but that maybe consciousness is a much, much bigger, broader quality in the universe that is shared by perhaps a much wider range of life expressions than we might be used to thinking about. CM: Now, that is an expansive idea. SB: Expansive is my favorite word after possibility. CM: Well, Sarah, thank you so much for being a guest on Getting Work to Work. Hopefully we can connect again on this show just to see what’s new in your world, ’cause I think you’re gonna be one of those people who just, as you continue exploring and expanding your expansiveness, that there will always be something new to talk about. So thank you for being here. SB: Well, I would love that, and I really loved this conversation as well. Thank you so much.

As a curious person, I am intrigued with what it takes to build skills and get good at a craft. Sure, there’s the initial impulse, the desire to pick up a guitar, make a leather bag, or design furniture, but at some point you need to start doing the work. You pluck and strum, sew and saw, cursing and crying as you suck beyond measure. But something in you tells you to keep going. Slowly, you get better. It’s hard to say where you’ll end up, but that doesn’t stop you as you dream about new ideas and possibilities. Maybe you’ll make money, it might just be a hobby, but that doesn’t matter because you feel alive. This is the work we do in a skills-based society. But there’s an interesting conversation emerging in some corners of the internet centered around this question: How is AI de-skilling humanity and what impact will that have on society? What’s the Point of Skills in a Skill-less Society? Skills are essential to making anything. Skills help us dream. The ability to think increases in parallel with the growth of our skills. Skills become an extension to gauge how we feel. Connection with others is a healthy byproduct of developing skills. Skills transform hopes and dreams into a shared vision for humanity. Show Links Shae O. Omonijo Ai, Humanities, and the Future of Work by Shae O. The Great AI De-Skilling is Upon Us 39 (Or So) Lessons On The Way To 39 by Ryan Holiday How It’s Made Episode Photo from Envato Elements: Close Up Macro of Colorful Interwoven Fabric

What is the work you want to put out into the world so you can experience it? What’s keeping you from doing it? Today’s guest not only thinks you should do it, but he also genuinely believes in you. I know I needed to hear that. Ian Honeyman is a film composer, songwriter, and founder of Film Score Academy. In our conversation, we talk about his limitless curiosity and creativity for writing and producing music that resonates with people. He shares a lot about the process of writing music, what it’s actually like working on Hollywood films, collaborating with metal band Voodoo Kungfu on projects, his journey from Wisconsin to Los Angeles, the role of luck and tenacity when doing creative work, building community, and why you should never stop sharing your work. No matter what type of creativity fuels your work, Ian’s warmth and love for the craft will undoubtedly inspire you. Show Links Ian Honeyman Film Score Academy How Great Ideas Happen: The Hidden Steps Behind Breakthrough Success by George Newman The Monkey King Theme Song (Main Theme) Voodoo Kungfu Ian’s Cannes 2026 Film Festival Recap on Instagram The Odyssey (2026) Disclosure Day (2026) Backrooms (2026) TRON: Ares (Original Motion Picture Soundtrack) Nine Inch Nails & Boys Noize Episode photo from Envato Elements: Classical Musical Score Sheets with Elegant Typography

How would you describe your talent? I know, not a comfortable question to start with today, but I think a lot about what talent is and how we choose to celebrate it as a society. The simple view of talent is this: whatever you want to do, as soon you share your dream with the world, you’re immediately put into a category, a genre, an industry, and judged against the best and the brightest. The result? You either have it, or in most cases, you don’t. We see this pattern play out in school, at work, in corporate America, and the entrepreneur’s garage. And let’s not forget the other side of talent: participation trophies. Don’t worry about talent, everyone’s equal and this trophy shows just how much we want you to believe that. I could go on and on, but I can’t stop wondering: What if we got talent all wrong? Show Links The Work of Art: How something comes from nothing by Adam Moss The Hours by Michael Cunningham Episode photo from Envato Elements: Colorful Swirls of Paint: Abstract Background Texture

When I find myself getting in my own way or needing a creative pick-me-up, I tune into what Heather Crank is doing with art, AI, design, and technology. She was one of the first artists in my circle to adopt AI, and since we last talked on Getting Work To Work three years ago, she continues to forge her message of shaping the future of AI by using and understanding it. In our conversation, we dive right into the topic of the decade: AI. We talk about what AI is as a tool, why we shouldn’t use it as it’s sold to us, trust, the importance of not being passive with AI, how she uses AI in her art and life, what the future of business might become, the boring nature of conformity, using AI to create propaganda, and maintaining our own cognitive sovereignty. Beyond AI, we talk about The Developing Life podcast and her recent participation in TEDxBend. If you are a creative wondering how you can challenge the status quo, Heather provides a few possible ways for you to take the power back. Previously on Getting Work To Work: “Entering a New World of Art” with Heather Crank (GWTW663) “Champion for a Creative World” with Heather Crank (GWTW365) Show Links Crahmánti Heather Crank (crahmanti) on Instagram “Netflix Lighting” and the Death of Cinematography by Robert Tolppi Why Does Every Netflix Show Look the Same? An Investigation. by Josh Rosenberg Palantir James Victore Artificiality Institute Refik Anadol Sougwen Chung The Diary of a CEO Ex-Google Officer: You Only Have 3 Years Left Before It Hits! – Mo Gawdat The Creative Act: A Way of Being by Rick Rubin with Neil Strauss Raising AI: An Essential Guide to Parenting Our Future by De Kai The Developing Life Podcast Is AI Making Our Brains Weaker? WALL·E (2008) TEDxBend Tess Posner RESONANCE | Tess Posner What Is Intelligence? Lessons from AI About Evolution, Computing, and Minds by Blaise Agüera y Arcas

As I examine my life, I find that I am in the middle of a massive pivot. I’m no longer who I once was, the young entrepreneur who wanted to work for anyone and everyone doing anything creative. I’m slowly becoming someone different, the thinker, writer, and artist who wants for more than just relying on formulas and routines to make ends meet. Yes, you could label this as a midlife crisis, but frankly, it’s more than that, it’s a life-altering process of reinvention. It’s not easy, it hurts as I get forged by the hammer of reality, and I could easily bemoan my existence. I could blame the economy or AI or globalization or automation or about a million other things for inflicting this shift upon me. But the truth is that I’ve known what I needed to do for at least a decade, and I’ve been too scared to do it. Until now. In today’s episode of Getting Work To Work, I’m going to talk about how I’ve been forging a creative life of strength, exploration, and experimentation that’s been working behind the scenes preparing me for what’s next. Show Links The Art & Craft of the Blacksmith: Techniques and Inspiration from the Modern Smith by Robert Thomas How Great Ideas Happen: The Hidden Steps Behind Breakthrough Success by George Newman The Work of Art: How something comes from nothing by Adam Moss Episode photo from Envato Elements: Abandoned factory from the inside

How do you work through and process awful events that happen in your life? For today’s guest, author Liz Lazarus, she turns them into psychological suspense novels including her brand new book, Dawn Before Darkness. In our conversation, she shares her journey to becoming an author and the importance of educating while entertaining. She also talks about how she approaches multiple pursuits, recognizing and taking opportunities as they present themselves, the joy of writing characters, how spreadsheets organize her creativity, emotional management while writing, and perhaps the best writing tip I’ve ever heard. Whether you’re a fan of genre fiction, a writer looking for inspiration, or someone like me who lives in both of those worlds, Liz’s wisdom and enthusiasm for life is just what you need. Show Links Liz Lazarus Dawn Before Darkness by Liz Lazarus The Anatomy of Motive: The FBI’s Legendary Mindhunter Explores the Key to Understanding and Catching Violent Criminals by John Douglas and Mark Olshaker Matt Dinniman Flow: The Psychology of Optimal Experience by Mihaly Csikszentmihalyi Follow My Leader by James B. Garfield Change Your Attitude…Change Your Life Jennifer Jill Araya Episode photo from Envato Elements: Mesmerizing view of the narrow footpath in a dark forest

The only prescription you need to get through today is one for laughter. Fortunately, dr. gough—fear not, it’s an honorary title—is in the house, pad in hand, to talk about his latest film, The Proposal, now available to download at beernutsproductions.com. We talk about stuff, lots of stuff, funny stuff, and even some serious stuff, all the while chuckling like two idiots who find everything funny. Things like why being busy keeps the demons at bay, exercise routines for comedy writers, the culinary hell that is the scotch egg, why gough’s face can’t hide a lie, how influencers influenced this mockumentary, supporting live entertainment, the travesty of Australian TV, our shared love and admiration for Stephen Colbert, and why it’s never been easier to make your own content. Show Links The Official Beernuts Productions Category on Getting Work To Work Beernuts Productions The Proposal Trick Or Treat Brisbane VLOG The Beernuts Productions Podcast gough’s parliament house speech The Gathering Magners Irish Cider Texas, Queensland Rome, Georgia Roma, Texas Rome, Italy (the good one) The Whitlams – Blow Up The Pokies (Official Video) The Whitlams Bassoon Flugelhorn John Denver – Take Me Home, Country Roads (Official Audio) Brisbane Lions Charlie Cameron Pricasso (Yeah, not safe for work, but talent is talent) ilia chidzey Conan O’Brien Needs a Friend BritBox A Musical Life… hosted by Scott Whatman Metamucil The Late Show with Stephen Colbert Wanton Destruction Of CBS Property – Letterman & Colbert Toss Stuff Off The Roof Of The Ed Sullivan Episode photo from Envato Elements: Talented Violinist Playing Music with Orchestra in Studio

Today’s guests couldn’t have said a more profound statement during our conversation: “Art is our gift to the universe.” Ashley Wren Collins and Jordan Rockwell are the co-authors of She Wrote, He Wrote: A New York Love Story, here to talk about their shared love for art and romantic comedies. In our conversation, they talk about their creative partnership, cracking jokes on the beach of St. Martin, and how they worked together to write a novel, record an audiobook, and produce a podcast. We also talk about the rules of romantic comedies, bringing personal experiences to fictional stories, seeing themselves in their characters, and how writing can heal ourselves. Most importantly, Ashley and Jordan are shining examples of why you explore creative projects outside of your preferred genre, you end up having a lot of fun telling good stories with great characters. Show Links Ashley Wren Collins Jordan Rockwell She Wrote, He Wrote: A New York Love Story – Official Website She Wrote, He Wrote: A New York Love Story by Ashley Wren Collins & Jordan Rockwell She Wrote, He Wrote: A New York Love Story on Audible Interstellar (2014) Lawrence of Arabia (1962) NASA Artemis II Multimedia Monica Bellucci Wild Orchid (1989) George R.R. Martin Quote – Two Types of Writers The Shawshank Redemption (1994) David Lean Thriller by Michael Jackson Apocalypse Now (1979) The Notebook by Nicholas Sparks Sweet Valley High book series Danielle Steel 500 Days of Summer (2009) Forgetting Sarah Marshall (2008) 10 (1979) Rebel Wilson Melissa McCarthy Robert Redford American Psycho (2000) Sydney Sweeney Seth Winston Rocky (1976) Harrison Ford Shrinking (TV Series 2023–) Wes Craven The Last House on the Left (1972) Red Eye (2005) Sidney Sheldon Peacemaker (TV Series 2022–2025) The Pitt (TV Series 2025–) The Criterion Channel The Making of FANNY AND ALEXANDER Project Hail Mary by Andy Weir Project Hail Mary (2026) The Super Mario Galaxy Movie (2026) Black Rabbit (TV Mini Series 2025) Heat 2 by Michael Mann and Meg Gardiner on Audible Episode photo from Envato Elements: Abstract Colorful Bokeh With City Night Background. Double Exposure

What got you interested in the work you do? Maybe you experienced a work of art that drove you to an easel or a grandparent put a camera in your hands and you couldn’t stop taking pictures. For today’s guest, it was watching a TV show about a doctor at a young age that led him to medicine. Dr. Kenneth Ro is a physician, creator of the RECLAIM Method, and author of PRIME: How to Win the Second Half of Life. In our conversation, we talk about his journey to become an ER doctor with zero backup plans. He also shares how asking deep questions and becoming a patient himself, led him in a new direction to not just help people get better, but become healthier. We touch on a lot including why we should focus on strengths not inadequacies, learning to assert calm and collectedness in chaotic situations, why he focuses on the convergence of science, story, and soul, the difference between stress and stress response, the distraction epidemic, and the power of presence, especially when it comes to leadership. Show Links Kenneth Ro, MD PRIME: How to Win the Second Half of Life by Kenneth Ro, MD Byron’s Babbles: Ontological Humility Marcus Welby, M.D. ER (TV Series 1994-2009) Scrubs (TV Series 2001-2010) The Pitt (TV Series 2025-) Erik Erikson’s Stages Of Psychosocial Development Your Inner Broadcast (GWTW881) The Obstacle is the Way: The Timeless Art of Turning Trials into Triumph by Ryan Holiday Amor fati Being Wrong: Adventures in the Margin of Error by Kathryn Schulz Ryan Holiday Through the Fog and Fire (GWTW886) Good to Great: Why Some Companies Make the Leap…And Others Don’t by Jim Collins Built to Last: Successful Habits of Visionary Companies by Jim Collins and Jerry I. Porras What to Make of a Life: Cliffs, Fog, Fire and the Self-Knowledge Imperative by Jim Collins Episode photo from Envato Elements: Person standing on a snow covered cliff over the breathtaking view of mountains under the sunset

Recently, I had an interesting conversation with a friend about perfectionism. I asked, “What triggers perfectionism for you?” They shared some thoughts, generally around being a beginner, but when they asked the same question to me, I took it another direction. I responded, “When I’ve done things for a long time and feel like I need to prove myself.” It’s amazing how experience can be both positive and negative. Without it, I would lack the confidence needed to do my job, but too much? Perfectionism. Fear of judgment. Constant comparison. It’s amazing how certain questions can unlock a state of reflection, but how can we actually do something with them? That’s what this episode is all about: Curious Questions for Change. 7 Curious Questions to Ask Yourself to Inspire Change and Find the Next Steps to Take: What triggers perfectionism for you? How do you rein in your curiosity when so much intrigues you? How do you pick one thing when you do many things? What curiosities lead to flow state (challenge/reward)? How can curiosity reveal the next step in your pivot or reinvention? What do you want to less of so you can do more of the things that matter to you? What are you waiting for? Show Links Flow: The Psychology of Optimal Experience by Mihaly Csikszentmihalyi The skills needed in the 21st century Episode photo from Envato Elements: Question Marks on Paper Create a Pattern

What’s the first thought that enters your mind when you hear the word networking? Mine is some form of a sigh, usually ugh. But what if networking isn’t what we’ve made it out to be? What if it’s something you can do at your own pace, in your own way? Today’s guest is Monique Kelley, a professor, consultant, and author of Redefining Networking: How to Lead with Your Unique Value. In our conversation, we dive into all things networking including her three-step strategic approach: 1) Identify your value, 2) Find an audience, and 3) Communicate your value. She also shares how to overcome generational stereotypes with research and curiosity, why the best networkers are foodies, how anyone can be a connector, the importance of listening, how to make the time each week for connecting with people, and leading with win-win opportunities. We also redefine networking through several role-playing scenarios. If you hate networking, then this episode’s for you. Show Links Redefining Networking: How to Lead with Your Unique Value by Monique Kelley The Devil Emails at Midnight: What Good Leaders Can Learn from Bad Bosses by Mita Mallick Episode photo from Envato Elements: Network of figures connected on painted gray backdrop

What does it mean when a book that is not self-help actually helps more than most books in the category? No shade to those authors, I’m sure their books are helping people, but they probably didn’t embark on a 10-year research project in search of the answer to the question, “What to make of a life?” When I picked up What to Make of a Life: Cliffs, Fog, Fire and the Self-Knowledge Imperative by Jim Collins at my local library, I saw the title in capital letters, flipped through the pages, and thought I’d give it a shot. What surprised me the most was that I couldn’t put it down. It not only helped me to make sense of where I’m at in my life, but it also gave me tools to think about the future. In this episode of Getting Work To Work, I’m going to dive into the seven most impactful quotes from Collins’s book, share a few stories from my life, and encourage you to search for your own answer to the question, “What to make of a life?” The seven most impactful quotes from What to Make of a Life: Cliffs, Fog, Fire and the Self-Knowledge Imperative by Jim Collins: Quote 1: “The sign of good research is that you end up in places you never expected. If after years of research all you do is reconfirm your own preconceptions, then what is the point of doing research? The whole point is to discover, to be surprised, to come to see the world and how it works differently than you did before” (p. 11). Quote 2: “It’s not about finding what you can do better than others, but about finding what you can do exceptionally well relative to other ways you could expend yourself” (p. 59). Quote 3: “…one of the conclusions of this entire effort is that no one can tell you what to do with your life or how specifically to lead your life. And if they do, they’re almost certainly wrong” (p. 23). Quote 4: “If your life is knocked sideways or torn asunder by a cliff, and especially if that cliff comes with mourning a loss and/or feeling the deep pain of grief, you can find yourself lost in thick, murky fog for a very long time” (p. 152). Quote 5: “Fog is when you go through a phase of immense uncertainty and lack of clarity about the best path forward, perhaps even having no clear idea where you want to go…. In the thickest fog, you can feel truly lost” (p. 157). Quote 6: “Fog is normal, natural, common, and highly prevalent…. Even the most successful, capable, energetic, ambitious, and otherwise clearheaded and self-directed people can find themselves in a major fog funk” (p. 168). Quote 7: “Extend Out/Circle Back: This is a continuous dynamic process of extending yourself—growing, learning, experimenting, expanding capabilities, discovering new encodings—while simultaneously drawing upon encodings discovered and capabilities developed earlier in life” (pp. 118-119). Show Links What to Make of a Life: Cliffs, Fog, Fire and the Self-Knowledge Imperative by Jim Collins Google AI Professional Certificate Arduino 101- Crash Course w/ Mark Rober Arduino Shapr3D Bambu Lab Episode photo from Envato Elements: Abstract Orange Smoke Plumes on Dark Background

How do you grapple with resistance when writing about personal stories from your past? As today’s guest learned, “When you get to the pain, slow down.” Darls Centola is a psychotherapist, educator, and author of Finding Truth with Michael: A Memoir of Friendship, Faith, and First Love.” In our conversation, Darls shares stories from her book including what it was like growing up as a Jehovah’s Witness in 1970s Los Angeles, being friends with Michael Jackson, and how her sister got them enrolled in a prestigious private school where they met the Jacksons. She also talks about her curiosity with neurobiology, the many paths she took to discover her calling, seeing people as they are, how doubt was the beginning of how to think, learning to listen to herself, and healing her relationship with her mother. Darls also provides practical advice on writing, discovering her adult voice, and how she worked on her craft in workshops and with coaches. Show Links Darls Centola, LCSW Finding Truth with Michael: A Memoir of Friendship, Faith, and First Love by Darls Centola The Body Keeps the Score: Brain, Mind, and Body in the Healing of Trauma by Bessel van der Kolk, M.D. Somatic Experiencing Internal Family Systems The Emerald Tablet: Alchemy of Personal Transformation by Dennis William Hauck The War of Art: Break Through the Blocks and Win Your Inner Creative Battles by Steven Pressfield Episode photo from Envato Elements: Fresh Lemons Pattern Background. Copy space. Top view.

Have you ever wondered what a crime novelist can teach you about your own creativity? It turns out, a lot—and not just about weird crimes and sketchy people. Today’s guest is Tod Goldberg, the bestselling author of sixteen books, including the Gangsterland quartet and his latest, Only Way Out. Tod is also a professor of creative writing and the founder and director of the Low Residency MFA in Creative Writing & Writing for the Performing Arts at the University of California, Riverside. We start our conversation with Tod stating why intellectual curiosity is essential for writers to connect with people. We then talk about what it was like to grow up in a family of writers, the movies we watched as kids that we probably shouldn’t have seen, a snapshot into his writing and professional life, the importance of doing your job and letting your brain breathe, why true crime is popular in chaotic times, why he created a writing graduate program and how it’s different than other MFAs, and his love for the democratization of art. Show Links Tod Goldberg The Story Behind The Stories – Tod Goldberg The Gangsterland Series by Tod Goldberg Only Way Out by Tod Goldberg Dune by Frank Herbert Lee Goldberg The Hitchhiker’s Guide to the Galaxy by Douglas Adams The Godfather (1972) Red Dawn (1984) The Outsiders (1983) C. Thomas Howell Big Trouble in Little China (1986) The Adventures of Buckaroo Banzai Across the 8th Dimension (1984) Escape from New York (1981) Star Wars: Episode IV – A New Hope (1977) Star Wars: Episode V – The Empire Strikes Back (1980) Todd Marinovich Linda Woods Artworks Visual Chronicles: The No-Fear Guide to Creating Art Journals, Creative Manifestos and Altered Books by Linda Woods and Karen Dinino The Jesus and Mary Chain Tod Goldberg, author of ONLY WAY OUT Marty Supreme (2025) Home – Harris Ranch Beef Company Ben Folds Five – Brick – YouTube Joe Loya Dead Man Walking (1995) Premier Low-Residency MFA | UC Riverside Palm Desert Creative Writing | Palm Desert Low-Residency MFA John Cheever John Updike Martin Scorsese Jane Campion Taxi Driver (1976) Lee Strasberg Office Chairs | La-Z-Boy Alta Journal: Stories of California and the West At the Knee by Tod Goldberg Sacrament by Susan Straight Jason Isbell – Official Website Episode photo from Envato Elements: The sun sets on the horizon as cattle graze in the field

Be honest: How bored are you right now? In all this push to get seen, to be consistent and on-brand, you’ve managed to become more machine than human. Your processes all have systems that talk to each other, dashboards measure what matters instantaneously letting you know whether you’re succeeding or failing, and social media keeps you jacked in and distracted to what’s really going on within you. Boredom is often portrayed as something to be avoided, but what if it’s actually what you need? What if instead of clicking, swiping, scrolling, and tapping, you did absolutely nothing? What could you learn from a period of disconnection and introspection? The answers to these questions are anything but simple, but they are instructive and personal, specific to your circumstances and dreams. And perhaps, just the very thing to guide you into a more favorable future. Show Links Episode photo from Envato Elements: Teenagers Holding Decorative Colorful Masks on a Sofa edX: CS50’s Introduction to Programming with Python Coursera: Figma UI/UX Design Essentials Coursera: Google AI Professional Certificate

I believe art finds us when we need it most. When I picked up the first issue of Art Bar Magazine and read the welcome letter from the editor, I felt like they were speaking directly to me and welcoming me home. I sent an email inviting the founders of the magazine, Sawa & Ira Ingram to the show, and they graciously accepted. In our conversation, we talk about how their roots in filmmaking, photography, and skateboarding, led them to create a magazine that celebrates new artists, successful creators, and an inclusive art world where everyone belongs. We also discuss Sawa’s documentary, Passing Through, Ira’s work in skateboarding and the Professional Skateboarding League, building trust and relationships, mortality and the importance of living life, what creativity looks like as a couple, the differences between analog and digital, and the symbiotic relationship of art and skateboarding. If you have an idea to create something, then this episode is the permission slip you need to go and make it. Show Links Art Bar Magazine Sarah Remetch Ingram Passing Through (2024) Professional Skateboarding League Where the Red Fern Grows by Wilson Rawls Fahrenheit 451 by Ray Bradbury Kurt Vonnegut Valen Lambert Jason Kulp Spike Jonze: The Photos That Started It All | Epicly Later’d – YouTube Jason Lee – Stereo Skateboards Mark Gonzales – Skateboarding Hall of Fame and Museum Ed Templeton Jacob Rosenberg Ty Evans Atiba Jefferson Bryce Kanights Tobin Yelland Amie Mcnee Tommy Mitchell Thrasher Magazine – RIP IN PEACE: Zane Timpson Philip Glass – YouTube Nils Frahm – YouTube Cormac McCarthy Soc. Heroin Skateboards Big Special Episode photo from Envato Elements: Artist painting on canvas

When was the last time you listened to your inner broadcast? You know the one. It’s your unique internal monologue full of beauty, curiosity, hope, imagination, wonder, and intrigue. It’s always broadcasting and we have the opportunity to tune in or drown it out with the noise of the world. I’ll be honest, it’s been hard to hear my inner broadcast lately. Focus is reserved for a handful of daily scattered moments of productivity. But the rest of the time? My mind wanders in the desert of this season of life. As I’ve talked about before, there are a lot of changes right now, but what I’m realizing is that no matter what happens, I need to listen to what’s going on within. If I don’t, I’m going to get steamrolled by the discordant soundtrack of the world, which just gets louder by the hour. Five ways to tune in and learn from your inner broadcasts: Create intentional moments of silence and solitude where you can tune in to your inner broadcast. Pay attention to what’s being broadcast and write down what you hear. Spend 15 minutes in active curiosity mode with something that comes up. Spend 15 minutes in active creation mode with what you learn. Reflection allows you to gauge the quality level of your inner broadcast. It is through reflection where you see what needs to be strengthened, added, changed, or removed. Show Links “Input, More Input!” Johnny 5 Goes Crazy | Short Circuit (1986) Episode photo from Envato Elements: Aerial view of highway junctions. Bridge roads shape in structure. Top view. Urban city

For almost 50 years, today’s guest didn’t talk about what happened to her on September 6, 1970 when the plane she was on was hijacked. But in her new book, Hostage: A Memoir of Terrorism, Trauma, and Resilience, Mimi Nichter recounts her story of what happened before, during, and after her hostage experience. In our conversation, we talk about her work as a cultural anthropologist and the ways observation and listening inform our ability to understand others. She also touches on how she found her voice in the writing process, choosing to write from memory instead of interviewing others, how images and stories helped memories to emerge, reconciling our past and present selves, the value of compassion, and why we need to talk about what happens to us. When we share our stories with one another, either in memoir or conversation, we connect not only to moments in time, but bear witness to the experiences that shape history itself. Show Links Mimi Nichter Hostage: A Memoir of Terrorism, Trauma, and Resilience by Mimi Nichter Between Two Kingdoms: A Memoir of a Life Interrupted by Suleika Jaouad Episode photo from Envato Elements: Aerial Drone, Where Desert Meets the Ocean, Sandwich Harbour, Namibia, Africa

What do you do when you get stuck? Maybe you’re like me and you let doubt and despair slow you down or even stop you. Today’s guest has a different answer: keep it moving. Bishop Kevin Foreman, “The People’s Bishop,” is a man of many pursuits—pastor, church planter, bishop, success coach, speaker, author, philanthropist, and entrepreneur—and in this conversation he shares how curiosity, faith, and divine conviction help him to keep his life and work moving. We talk about his insatiable thirst for knowledge, the art of letting go, building the essential skill of reframing, liberating versus limiting beliefs, how faith and data work together when making decisions, why prioritization matters more than balance, and his constant drive to bring the best out of people. Show Links Bishop Kevin Foreman History Makers by Bishop Kevin Foreman Sins of the Fathers: Breaking Generational Curses by Bishop Kevin Foreman Evolutionaries: Unlocking the New You by Bishop Kevin Foreman Groundhog Day (1993) How to Win Friends and Influence People by Dale Carnegie Steve Jobs by Walter Isaacson Episode photo from Envato Elements: Texture of layers in orange and gray colors

Do you ever feel like you’re making the same mistakes over and over again? Yeah, me too. There are some parts of my life and work where curiosity and experimentation are endless, but when it comes to money, I’m stuck on a treadmill of feast and famine. I know enough of the lingo to talk a good game, but really, I’m still doing business like I did when I started 20 years ago. Underneath it all, I’m stuck in a shame spiral wondering if it will ever change. The truth is that something broke a long time ago and instead of fixing it, I kept repeating my mistakes making the break worse and worse. But as I watch my wife heal from a broken leg, it’s time for me to heal my own brokenness. Show Links Wisdom Takes Work: Learn. Apply. Repeat. by Ryan Holiday Shrinking (TV Series 2023–) Superagency: What Could Possibly Go Right with Our AI Future by Reid Hoffman and Greg Beato The Daring Creatives Episode photo from Envato Elements: broken glass, impact, overlay, realistic

There’s a lot that holds us back as creative individuals, but today’s guest thinks one question is the death of our creativity: who cares? The work begins when you shift from asking the question to stating, “I care.” As a literary publicist, Kim Dower—also known as Kim-from-L.A.—is celebrating 40 years of putting authors on the map, booking them on shows, and getting their books in the hands of people like myself. But Kim is also a poet, “ordained” and “blessed with the gift,” as she shares in our conversation. Her latest book of poems is titled What She Wants: Poems on Obsession, Desire, Despair, Euphoria. Our conversation weaves between the worlds of art and entrepreneurship, starting with the clouds and the sky, reflecting on the magnificent sounds of nature, exploring Kim’s evolving relationship with persistence, lamenting the loss of nostalgia, and documenting our obsessions throughout our lives. Not to mention, a love for words, both written and spoken, conversationally between two people on Zoom. Show Links Kim Dower What She Wants: Poems on Obsession, Desire, Despair, Euphoria by Kim Dower Kim-from-L.A. Charles Baudelaire The Stranger by Charles Baudelaire Thomas Lux Wallace Stevens Lunch Poems by Frank O’Hara Dorothy Parker Bill Knott Limerence Parasocial Relationships: The Nature of Celebrity Fascinations Friends (TV Series 1994-2004) The War of Art: Break Through the Blocks and Win Your Inner Creative Battles by Steven Pressfield Why Write Love Poetry in a Burning World by Katie Farris A Century of Poetry in The New Yorker: 1925-2025 Photo by Chris J. Davis on Unsplash

What’s the first thing that comes to mind when you think about publicity? After I think about celebrities, perfume ads, TMZ, and shameless attention-seekers, I say, “I guess it’s not for me.” Thankfully, today’s guest is on the show to make me laugh and correct my thinking because PR is for everyone. KJ Blattenbauer is a publicist, author, and speaker who helps founders and experts move from overlooked to in-demand through credibility-driven visibility. In our conversation, she gives actionable steps on making sure your visibility is connected to your goals and your audience; it’s about service and storytelling. She also shares the importance of not giving up when someone says no, that all you need is a sprinkling of audacity to make a difference, why it doesn’t hurt to try something a million times, and why you can never have too much passion. Show Links Hearsay PR Pitchworthy: The No-Fluff Playbook to Publicity That Pays Off by KJ Blattenbauer Aaron Rodgers: Enigma (TV Series 2024) “Untold” – The Fall of Favre (TV Series 2025) I’m Chevy Chase and You’re Not (2025) Three Amigos! (1986) Tree Paine – Taylor Swift’s Publicist P.T. Barnum We Need Your Art: Stop Messing Around and Making Something by Amie McNee Threads

Rejection is on my mind today. Yes, it’s because I got rejected for something I actually wanted. But there’s also a deeper reason: Somewhere along my creative journey, I learned to minimize rejection by playing-it-safe, making my dreams small, and maximizing my chameleon tendencies. Recently, Shae Omonijo shared a short video on Substack about her plan for 2026: “Collect 1K rejections.” A lot ran through my mind after seeing the video, “1,000 rejections? One hurt enough! Are you a glutton for punishment?” I think my brain short-circuited when I watched it, but it didn’t take long for the truth to be revealed: I’m a chicken and I’m tired of being scared. If you are someone who has big dreams, but shove them aside because you have an unhealthy relationship with rejection, then this episode’s for you. Oh, and don’t worry, I’m preaching to the choir here because this is the work I need to do for myself as well. Seven ways to go from avoiding rejection to chasing 1,000 rejections? Know what you actually want. Adopt a rejection mindset. Stop waiting and start moving. Dream bigger and share often. Allow yourself to change. Learn to separate rejection from failure. Become an advocate for yourself, your wants, and needs. Show Links Shae O. – “Collect 1K Rejections” video Finding Mastery Mindset: The New Psychology of Success by Carol S. Dweck, Ph.D. Episode photo by Jan Antonin Kolar on Unsplash

How do you respond when moments of disruption happen in your life? Do you shake your fist at the sky, bemoaning, “Why me?” Or do you get curious and ask, “What’s around the next corner?” During every pivotal moment in the life of today’s guest, he learned what it would take to not only escape the assembly line, but to build a life worth living. auGi Garred is a storyteller, former comedian, multi-instrumentalist, beacon of fun on the horizon, and founder of Molting Men, a place for Gen-X creatives to reimagine their futures. In this conversation, auGi tells powerful stories centered around three key areas: Rush, the power of humor, and staying open to what is around the next corner. He talks about why you should always choose best friends over young love, the challenges of collaborating with a college grad who thought he was the next Ira Gershwin, how he earned the equivalent of a business school education by speaking with over 70,000 people at the world’s largest telecom company, and the power of excavating your origin story to shape your future. Most importantly, he shares how what he calls “luvity,” the fusion of love and levity, can make the lives of those around you better. Show Links auGi Garred on LinkedIn Molting Men (Running Naked) OGGOMATiC on YouTube Rush Caress of Steel by Rush Signals by Rush Permanent Waves by Rush Moving Pictures by Rush Cygnus X-1 Book I: The Voyage Star Wars Trash Compactor Scene (A New Hope) Binary sunset… from A New Hope, Star Wars: The Digital Movie Collection Welcome to Ingham County The Wonderful Wizard of Oz – Wikipedia History of Oldsmobile – Oldsmobile Club of America Goodyear Tires Uncle Owen and Aunt Beru’s Death Scene – Star Wars: A New Hope [4k UltraHD] Goblin Claudio Simonetti REO Speedwagon 3209 W Barnes Rd, Mason, MI 48854 UFO (band) Le Studio Whitesnake Foreigner – Hot Blooded (Official Live Video) Miles Davis – Kind Of Blue – Full Album Tears For Fears – Sowing The Seeds Of Love Guns N’ Roses – Welcome To The Jungle van-halen.com – The Official Van Halen Web Site ABBA -– Dancing Queen (Official Music Video) Nazareth – Hair of the Dog (Official Audio) Foo Fighters – Breakout (Official HD Video) Michelangelo’s Non-finito Sculptures Beyond the Notes Leonardo da Vinci by Walter Isaacson Episode photo by Noah Klimpel on Unsplash

When you cross paths with someone whose mission is incredibly clear, it’s hard not to want that clarity for yourself. Scott Proposki is a photographer, entrepreneur, and author; his mission is to help photographers all around the world to build a business to last a lifetime. In our conversation, Scott shares stories from his journey living the photography dream—National Geographic, events at the White House, corporate client shoots, millions in sales—then losing it all in 2020, and rebuilding from nothing. We talk about the role of listening in storytelling, the importance of self-awareness, crafting a 25-year plan, doing one thing instead of 20, why photographers aren’t screwed, and why photography is more relevant than ever before. Show Links Scott Proposki Camera Focus: What Photography Teaches About Business, Life, and Success by Scott Proposki We Need Your Art: Stop Messing Around and Making Something by Amie McNee New England Patriots Bill Belichick on Instagram Watch Mr. Polaroid on PBS Wall Street Journal Podcasts Fort Vancouver Regional Libraries Episode photo from Envato Elements: Snow covered mountain peaks, Monte Rosa Piedmont, Italy

2026 is upon us and it’s not just a new year thrusting us toward change, it’s everything: society, culture, technology, relationships, work, life—it’s all dynamic, frenetic. Some of us start the year clutching our resolutions tightly, convinced that this is the year we actually live up to them. Others rely on the thesaurus to shift the psychological burden from resolution to something else, anything else, in order to trick our brains into actually accomplishing the things that matter most: “I don’t have resolutions, I have goals.” But it’s going to take more than hacks and tricks to comprehend the amount of change we need in our daily lives. It’s about introducing system-wide curiosity that shifts change from being the end result of an enormous task with a binary value—yes or no—to a daily process that gives us time to explore and open our minds to new realities. Show Links Let My People Go Surfing: The Education of a Reluctant Businessman by Yvon Chouinard The Art of Doing Science and Engineering: Learning to Learn by Richard W. Hamming Pearl Jam – Do the Evolution (Single Video Theory) Photo by Nikoline Arns on Unsplash

When was the last time you got permission to have fun in your business? For me, it’s been too long, so I’m grateful for today’s guest. Dawn Andrews is a business strategist, executive leadership coach, and podcaster who approaches her business as a playground to explore new tools and technologies that not only help herself, but also her clients. In this conversation, Dawn softens the fear around AI through an exploration of how she uses tools to boost her curiosity and creativity. She shares insights into the ways her brain and business work, how creativity can help us manage the world, the important mindset shift we need to make, how beginners can start using AI with a single piece of paper, and actual examples of AI in action. Show Links Dawn Andrews 12 Day AI Quick Wins Series – Dawn Andrews Is Your Business Killing You? (GWTW865) Jasper POSCA Markers iA Writer Filterworld: How Algorithms Flattened Culture by Kyle Chayka On algorithmic anxiety – Kyle Chayka Industries Airtable Make MindPal Microsoft Copilot Claude ChatGPT Google Gemini The Five Minute Journal® I am Shae Omonijo The Art of Gathering Book: How We Meet and Why It Matters by Priya Parker Episode photo from Envato Elements: Glasses With Landscape View On City Background. Vision Concept. 3D Rendering

Have you ever wondered what gough would do? I do, too. Fresh from his birthday celebration, gough is back on Getting Work To Work, again, to talk about his year-ending projects: a short documentary about a blind man traveling to see the greatest rock band in the world, an audio drama about the seedy underbelly of the podcasting world—sounds about right—and the Beernuts Productions podcast. We talk seriously about the reality of discrimination against people with disabilities, why gough uses silly t-shirts and humor to disarm people, his love for onion rings, the worst gym session ever in his life, jokes so old they can vote, how he found the most annoying voices for his podcasting audio drama, how he makes up the most important statistics to satisfy guests who only go on popular podcasts, the death of radio in Australia, and the weirdest podcast he went on to promote his work. Show Links Beernuts Productions The Seedy Underbelly of Podcasting The Beernuts Productions Podcast The Advertising Meeting Trick or Treat Mr. X. Melbourne Trip – Documentary Gold Coast News Clip Enshittification: Why Everything Suddenly Got Worse and What to Do About It by Cory Doctorow Oasis Oasis – Wonderwall (Official Video) dadsaysjokes on Instagram Rush I Love You, Man (2009) Jason Segel & Paul Rudd Meet Rush Apple iPhone Virgin Atlantic Marvel (Docklands) Stadium Alcotraz – Immersive Cocktail Experience Simpsons – Like, You Know, Whatever… (from “Summer of 4 ft 2”) Recording Room Airplane! (1980) John Cleese Packs It In (2025) The Naked Gun (2025) The Running Man (2025) Zambian kwacha Tim Berners-Lee

Sprinkled throughout today’s conversation is a phrase I absolutely love. No matter the situation or the statement, the response is simple, “Let’s talk about it.” Chanda Coston is a Navy Veteran, PMP, and Business Strategist who helps purpose-driven entrepreneurs—especially women over 40—turn chaos into clarity and grow businesses that make sense (and money). In our time together, we talk about the need for clarity, the importance in telling our stories, and having people in our corner. Chanda also talks about her life as a professional pivoter, the reality that nothing happens overnight, trusting yourself, starting over and carving new paths, and systems as self-care. If you’re looking to make some changes, let this sink in: If Chanda can do it, so can you. Show Links Chanda Co. Strategist Chanda Co. on Instagram Free Ebook: Barriers to Breakthru 1:1 Tiny Challenge ($21) The 12 Week Year: Get More Done in 12 Weeks Than Others Do in 12 Months by Brian P Moran and Michael Lennington Episode photo from Envato Elements: Study Of Patterns And Lines

I’ve been slowly waking up to the reality that I’ve been running my business and living my life on autopilot for far too long. It’s been six years since I really felt like I was in control and not operating by the whims of others and the seat of my pants. But here I am, staring at 2026 off in the distance, ready to shake the sleep from my eyes and do something completely different. In this episode, I’m going to share why I’m ready to shake things up, how I’m reconnecting with my vision, passion, and action, and how you can, too. Reflection Questions, Part One Before I go any further, I have some reflection questions for you. It might be useful to open your notes app or get a journal and pen out to write down your thoughts to these four questions: How loud is your fear? What is your fear saying to you? Do you know where you’re going? How long has your autopilot been engaged? Reflection Questions, Part 2 Okay, before I dive into what these three words mean for me and my future, take a few moments in your notes app or journal and write down some initial thoughts to these three questions: What is my vision? How does my passion help bring that vision to life? What actions am I taking to make sure that my vision and passion become a reality? Reflection Questions, Part 3 Now that I’ve shared a little about my own vision, passion, and action, I want you to return to your notes app or journal and go deeper with these questions: What really is my vision? What are my passion levels teaching me? What is the next action I need to take? Show Links Airplane! (1980) This Is Spinal Tap (1984) Innovators of Vancouver Episode photo from Envato Elements: No people in empty captain cabin with dashboard navigation

I always enjoy meeting people who think deeply about the work they do, but also have a lot of fun doing it. Izzy Poirier is a designer, brand strategist, zine publisher, and community builder. From her earliest years, she’s been intrigued with the nature of people, their stories and identities, and making sure that they have a place to belong. In our conversation, we talk about the intersection of design, brand strategy, community building with the Ottawa Design Club, craft, and the art of zines. We also dive into Pivotal Moments, a zine featuring stories from creatives around the world, produced in collaboration with the Ottawa Design Club and New York Design Club. Izzy shares what went into producing the zine, curating the stories, the impact, and how a single font changed everything in the design phase of the project. If you’re looking for some inspiration as you consider new projects or pivots in your own future, then this is the episode for you. Show Links Izzy Poirier Ottawa Design Club New York Design Club Pivotal Moments Heather Crank (Crahmánti) Bend Design Cadillac LYRIQ The Running Man (2025) Non Foundry Non Ophelie TYPE01 Xerox – Graphic & Print Design Solutions Brand – International Brand Design Magazine

Even if you’ve never had a hamster for a pet, you’ve witnessed the spectacle of them running in a hamster wheel. They step inside a giant wheel in the center of their captivity and run, and run, and run. It’s so adorable when they do it. But what if I could tell you we have human hamster wheels, in the center of our captivity, and we run, and run, and run? They aren’t literal wheels, but they serve the same purpose: keep us distracted from the reality that we aren’t where we want to be, not doing the work that matters to us, and somewhere along the way, we took a wrong turn. It’s never been easier to numb out and just keep running, but one day, the call will come from inside the house, it’s time to answer the call, step off the wheel, and jack in to life. Six ways to ditch the hamster wheel: Incorporate experimentation and research and development into your creative process. Look for ways to increase diversity in your work. Before you offload tasks to someone else or another system, make sure that what you’re building isn’t just a larger hamster wheel in disguise. Offload repetitive tasks to virtual assistants, employees, or AI and automation systems. Batch recording is great until it’s not. Don’t fool yourself, the hamster wheel is pernicious, don’t be afraid to step away. Show Links The Running Man (2025) Neuromancer by William Gibson Starship Troopers (1997) Showgirls (1995) Episode photo from Envato Elements: A playful hamster runs energetically on its wheel inside a bright, colorful cage

You might look at today’s title and think I’m trying to be humorous or sensational or clickbait-y, but I’m absolutely serious. It’s such an important question that it demands me to say it aloud right now: Is your business killing you? When you first start your business, you don’t think about the ways it overtakes your life, you let it gladly, because that’s the price you pay for building something that statistically could end in five years or less. But then, over time, you just keep letting it control your life. Social media and email dominate your existence on and off hours. Any hiccups in payments or acquiring new clients results in prayer, drinking, or worse, loans from online payment providers. Shutting it off means the potential for losing everything, or so you tell yourself. Before you know it, you’ve lost your vision and passion, but you keep powering on because at some point along the way, it’s what you do, and you’re also unemployable. If this is resonating with you, grab a cup of tea, take a seat, and let’s talk, because the truth is going to hurt. Show Links Episode photo from Envato Elements: Various spices on stone table

It’s that time of year again, when pumpkin spice invades your latte, kids dress up like their favorite heroes, villains, nightmares, and corporate superstars hoping for a bag full of candy, and gough, your favorite Australian filmmaker, shows up on Getting Work To Work to talk about his latest film, Trick Or Treat. Armed with the biggest budget in the history of BeernutsProductions.com, a stable of actors dishing out sketches and monologues, 27 costumes, and nature balls, gough’s latest film pulls no punches against Halloween. In our conversation, we talk about the struggles he faced making the film in both casting and costumes, how he works through challenging emotions, stupid advice actors have received from their teachers that they have brought to the set, and all the hilarity fit for print and podcast. Show Links Beernuts Productions Trick Or Treat Mr Eligible Mr. X. Treehouse of Horror 2M3C ilia chidzey Goat Track Theatre Neighbours (TV Series 1985–2025) Home and Away (TV Series 1988–) Danielle Collins Taia Favale A Musical Life hosted by Scott Whatman The Recording Room Uncanny X-Men Howard Hughes One Battle After Another (2025) Roofman (2025) Channing Tatum Punches Back While Eating Spicy Wings | Hot Ones Licorice Pizza (2021) Magnolia (1999) Recency bias George Carlin on YouTube Kampala, Uganda

Weaving through the design, data, stories, and statuses on social media, I witnessed the human need to be seen; the longing to be discovered. I like this word, “longing.” I recently came across a book by Sue Monk Kidd called, Writing Creativity and Soul and she writes a lot about longing as a creative, a writer, woman, and a mother. What a word to sit and reflect upon: Longing. Merriam-Webster defines longing as “a strong desire especially for something unattainable.” In this episode, I explore the building blocks of the soul: deep questions that take time to answer. Show Links Writing Creativity and Soul by Sue Monk Kidd Austin Kleon Episode photo from Envato Elements: Close-up view of the wooden craft products

How far am I willing to go? How much work am I willing to do? Two powerful questions today’s guest asked herself at the start of her writing journey as she considered what it meant to be a writer. Barbara DeMarco-Barrett is a writer, podcaster, teacher, and publisher on the show to talk about writing, podcasting, and her latest book, Pool Fishing, a collection of stories connected by place and featuring characters who live on the fringes of society. In our conversation she shares insights into the act of writing and being a writer, the fluid nature of creativity, the challenges present in short stories, why writing dark fiction can help us make sense of the world, and rejection. We also talk about her podcast, Writers on Writing, which started as a radio show in 1998. 27 years later, it continues as a way for her to learn more about the writing process and share what she discovers with writers around the world. Show Links Barbara DeMarco-Barrett Writers on Writing Pen on Fire Pool Fishing by Barbara DeMarco-Barrett IngramSpark Podcast Movement Refuse to Be Done: How to Write and Rewrite a Novel in Three Drafts by Matt Bell Scott Turow The secret structure of great talks by Nancy Duarte The War of Art: Break Through the Blocks and Win Your Inner Creative Battles by Steven Pressfield “I apologize for such a long letter – I didn’t have time to write a short one.” – Quote from Mark Twain Orange County Noir Double Indemnity (1944) Kelp Books Richard Bausch Kelley Baker Margaret Atwood The Writer Files: Writing, Productivity, Creativity, and Neuroscience by Kelton Reid Episode photo from Envato Elements: Stairs of an indoor pool with clear water

I’ve heard this phrase way too often in the past 25 years: “If you’re ignoring [enter the trending or disrupting technology], then you’re already behind.” While the phrase may be technically true, it does require a major assumption: equality. It assumes that every person has equal access to the technology, responds with openness and trust instead of skepticism and caution, and can actually see value through the veil of hype, fear, and propaganda. Those are big assumptions, but even bigger are the promises and the corresponding bubbles. Don’t worry about what doesn’t seem to be right, just go all in, because you’ll be able to cash out. Or so the “logic” goes. Do you want to know what I’ve never heard in relation to this notion of being behind? That you’re right on time. So, that’s what I’m going to focus on today because not only is it an accurate statement, it is also life-giving and dream-fulfilling. Show Links Diffusion of innovations Episode photo from Envato Elements: Steampunk mechanism

How do you push creative boundaries and embrace opportunities as they come? You solve problems and focus on the people around you. Today’s guest on Getting Work To Work, Josh Simons, is no stranger to the creative business world. According to his bio, “he ran a record label, publishing function, film production company and was the lead singer of Australian indie rock band Buchanan.” Now, Josh is the Chief Executive Officer of Vinyl Group, Australia’s only ASX-listed music company, and founder of Vampr. In our conversation, Josh shares lessons he learned in his journey from recording studios to boardrooms. He talks about his curiosity with people and what motivates them, bands as a lens for looking at the business world, the objective nature of success, the creativity present in writing songs and leading people, why the asshole creative shouldn’t be the model for success, and how to manage the emotions in your mind with sticky and transient solutions. Show Links Josh Simons Vinyl Group Vinyl.com Vampr Bandcamp Sam Fender Harland Highway Podcast Episode photo from Envato Elements: Spinning Record Player With Vintage Vinyl, Turntable Player And Vinyl Record

“Can I pick your brain?” Of course, you absolutely can. But I’ve noticed a lot more professionals expressing disdain for people reaching out and wanting to ask a few questions. But before I dive into a rant based upon passing comments and not a lot of data, I’m going to speak about the type of creative industry I want to be part of, one that is built upon the sharing of knowledge, not just online but person to person. Why? Because that’s how we build community, a reputation, and dare I say it, a legacy. In this episode, I’m going to share eight ways we can build up others around us from newbies to the competition. Can you imagine a creative world where everyone wins? I can and this is how we do it. 8 Ways We Can Build Up Others Around Us From Newbies to the Competition: Interview and share openly. Hold office hours. Maintain an FAQ on your website. Have a direct line of communication—dedicated email address, Discord server, Substack—for students and those starting out. Be a beginner and learn to ask questions of others. Open your space monthly or quarterly for a meeting of the minds. Don’t limit to just those who are starting out, welcome your competition. Be the community member you expect others to be. Show Links Barbara DeMarco-Barrett Creatives Ignite Austin Kleon Christopher Butler Stefan Sagmeister – Answers Mitch Goldstein Episode photo from Envato Elements: Marinated cucumbers or pickles on wood

Their mission may be simple—”We Tell Makers’ Stories”—but hidden in every photo, interaction, page, and podcast is an unquenchable fire to build a global community. Kate and Jack Lennie are the visionaries behind We Are Makers, an independent print publication and podcast featuring makers all over the world. In our conversation, we talk about the power of storytelling and what makes a compelling story. Kate and Jack also share why they choose to produce a magazine, the ever-evolving nature of their work, how they stay strong as a couple, the visceral nature of failure when working with your hands, overcoming obstacles, the power of having a mission, and what it was like to distribute the first We Are Makers grant. Show Links We Are Makers The We Are Makers Grant Fund We Are Makers on Instagram We Are Makers on YouTube Craft Festival Biff, Chip & Kipper WE ARE MAKERS | WAM CAST #0004 – Banton Frameworks We Are Makers Edition Six WE ARE MAKERS | WAM CAST #0026 – HOOLIGAN GEORGIA and TRACY CULLEN POTTERY Building a StoryBrand 2.0: Clarify Your Message So Customers Will Listen by Donald Miller Episode photo from Envato Elements: A romantic pottery session in a modern studio filled with creativity and connection

How do you get better at your craft? Sounds like a potential start to a not so funny joke, but I’m serious: How do you get better at your craft? With skills that rely upon your hands and time—like woodworking or pottery or painting—you just have to do the work, go through the process, and see what comes out the other end. Is it good or is it crap? Probably. But in the digital world, it’s a little bit different (or so we tell ourselves), because we can create or buy or borrow systems that indicate when something is broken or going to lead to failure. They can also do a lot of the mundane work for us. As a programmer, you can generate an entire program in seconds of time, shifting your time burden from authorship to editor. But do you actually get better as a programmer? Maybe. Improvement comes in different ways, I guess. But the more I think about getting better at my craft, the less it has to do with what software I’m using or not using, and doing the actual work. Show Links Psych (TV Series 2006–2014) Enshittification: Why Everything Suddenly Got Worse and What to Do About It by Cory Doctorow Art Work: On the Creative Life by Sally Mann Handmade: Creative Focus in the Age of Distraction by Gary Rogowski The Real Work: On the Mystery of Mastery by Adam Gopnik iA Writer Episode photo from Envato Elements: Craftsman manufacturing a mirror in his workshop

There is often a moment in every interview on Getting Work To Work that stops me in my tracks. In today’s interview with Kimberly Lau and Linda Young, they dropped the mic twice with these two mind-blowing moments: “We have enough clothing on the planet to clothe the next six generations” and “Since we opened nine months ago, we have saved 2,500 pounds in textile waste from the landfill.” In our conversation, they share the mission and purpose behind Project ReWear, a resale business that goes beyond reselling clothes by rebuilding a system through tracking and valuing donations, measuring real-time impact, and making secondhand second nature. They are finding a way to impact the planet positively for generations to come and here to show you how you can too. Show Links Project ReWear WALL•E (2008) Idiocracy (2006) Armchair Expert smartless Episode photo from Envato Elements: Second hand clothes are hanging in street market