It’s OK That You’re Not OK with Megan Devine

We know that healthcare workers are burned out and exhausted. Provider mental health is a huge issue… but are the institutions listening?  This week on It’s OK, burnout expert Dr. Jessi Gold talks to us about (obviously) burnout, but also ways HCW* can start to change the workplace culture into one that actually values the human workforce. Sound unlikely? Listen in for Dr. Gold’s ideas for a grassroots movement - using the language of capitalism to get the c-suite to listen. *We talk a bunch about HCW in this episode, but the topics involved are relevant to everyone who feels even a little bit exhausted by the pressures of the world.  Dr. Gold’s new book, How Do You Feel?: One Doctor's Search for Humanity in Medicine, is out on October 8, 2024. For more info visit drjessigold.com   In this episode we cover:   Can you be emotionless and still practice good medicine? How medical training seeks out perfectionists, and then uses that perfectionism as a way to wring out even more work  Why you can’t self-care your way out of burnout, but you can support yourself inside the catastrophe Ways to get the administration to start valuing their workforce (spoiler: it involves speaking the language of capitalism!)    We're re-releasing some of our favorite episodes from the first 3 seasons. This episode was originally recorded in 2022.   Looking for a creative exploration of grief? Check out the best selling Writing Your Grief course here.   About our guest: Dr. Jessi Gold is an Assistant Professor in the Department of Psychiatry at Washington University School of Medicine in St Louis. She’s a nationally recognized expert on healthcare worker mental health and burnout (particularly during the pandemic). Her work can be found in major publications like The New York Times, The Atlantic, The Washington Post, and TIME. Find the “burned out burnout expert” at drjessigold.com and on social media @drjessigold   Pre-order Dr. Gold’s book - How Do You Feel?: One Doctor's Search for Humanity in Medicine   About Megan:  Psychotherapist Megan Devine is one of today’s leading experts on grief, from life-altering losses to the everyday grief that we don’t call grief. Get the best-selling book on grief in over a decade, It’s Ok that You’re Not OK, wherever you get books. Find Megan @refugeingrief   Additional Resources: Physician Support Line on social @shrink.rapping   American Foundation for Suicide Prevention on social @afspnational   Clinician Well-Being Knowledge Hub developed by @theNAMedicine    The Emotional PPE Project   Want to talk with Megan directly? Join our patreon community for live monthly Q&A grief clinics: your questions, answered. Want to speak to her privately? Apply for a 1:1 grief consultation here.    Check out Megan’s best-selling books - It’s OK That You're Not OK and How to Carry What Can’t Be Fixed   Books and resources may contain affiliate links.   Follow our show on Instagram, Facebook, Twitter, and TikTok @refugeingrief and @itsokpod on TikTok. For more information, including clinical training and consulting and to share your thoughts, visit us at refugeingrief.comSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

The world is such a hot mess: every day a new disaster, a new human rights catastrophe. It can just feel… endless. Illustrator Aubrey Hirsch joins us to talk about outrage and trauma and community building - it’s like the greatest hits of modern culture. But mostly, she joins us to talk about art - specifically, the ways that storytelling helps us band together and work towards the world we all want.  PS: Listen all the way through so you don’t miss Aubrey’s slightly sinister but ultimately functional ideas on hope.    In this episode we cover:  - The relationship between rage and creation: when there’s so much wrong with the world all you can do is scream - Why taking action to change things matters - even if your actions won’t save everyone - Women and anger: hoo boy, it’s a whole thing.  - Why healing inside trauma is actually kind of… boring.  - Connecting through the power of storytelling   We're re-releasing some of our favorite episodes from the first 3 seasons. This episode was originally recorded in 2022.   Looking for a creative exploration of grief? Check out the best selling Writing Your Grief course here. About our guest: Aubrey Hirsch is the author of Why We Never Talk About Sugar, a collection of short stories, and This Will Be His Legacy, a flash fiction chapbook. Her stories, essays and comics have appeared widely in print and online in places like American Short Fiction, Vox, TIME, The New York Times, The Rumpus, The Toast, and in the New York Times bestselling anthology, Not That Bad. Her essay on trauma and surviving gun violence is a must read. Find it here.   About Megan:  Psychotherapist Megan Devine is one of today’s leading experts on grief, from life-altering losses to the everyday grief that we don’t call grief. Get the best-selling book on grief in over a decade, It’s Ok that You’re Not OK, wherever you get books. Find Megan @refugeingrief   Additional Resources: Aubrey occasionally teaches comics for “non-artists.” Check her TW @aubreyhirsch for announcements.  Aubrey publishes new comics and essays on Roxane Gay’s substack, The Audacity.  Aubrey’s written on so many topics relevant to human life. Find a long list of awesome essays on her website, aubreyhirsch.com Want to talk with Megan directly? Join our patreon community for live monthly Q&A grief clinics: your questions, answered. Want to speak to her privately? Apply for a 1:1 grief consultation here.  Check out Megan’s best-selling books - It’s OK That You're Not OK and How to Carry What Can’t Be Fixed Books and resources may contain affiliate links. Follow our show on Instagram, Facebook, Twitter, and TikTok @refugeingrief and @itsokpod on TikTok. For more information, including clinical training and consulting and to share your thoughts, visit us at refugeingrief.comSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

If you look at social media with its reliance on meme-based psychology, you’d think that the Buddhist approach to life is to not let things get to you - that the true spiritual path helps you rise above such limited, unenlightened human feelings like grief, greed, and resentment.    This week on It’s OK, Zen teacher Koshin Paley Ellison is here to tell you that your suffering deserves your attention.    In this episode we cover:    - How an experience of targeted violence shaped Koshin’s childhood, and what it’s taught him about the suffering of others - Why it’s healthier to spend time in the “life is suffering” part of the 4 Noble Truths, rather than rushing to the other 3 as solutions - How to work with the pain and the suffering in your own life, so that it doesn't fester and cause more harm - Why going to the furniture store looking for milk is only going to lead to disappointment - Koshin’s new book, Untangled: Walking the Eightfold Path to Clarity, Courage, and Compassion   We're re-releasing some of our favorite episodes from the first 3 seasons. This episode was originally recorded in 2022.   Looking for a creative exploration of grief? Check out the best selling Writing Your Grief course here.   About our guest: Sensei Koshin Paley Ellison is an author, Zen teacher, and Jungian psychotherapist who has devoted his life to the study and application of psychotherapy and Buddhism. Koshin co-founded the New York Zen Center for Contemplative Care, with his husband Chodo Robert Campbell, to transform the culture of care through contemplative practice by meeting illness, aging, and death with compassion and wisdom. Koshin’s work has been featured in The New York Times, PBS, and CBS Sunday Morning among other media outlets. His newest book is Untangled: Walking the Eightfold Path to Clarity, Courage, and Compassion. Find him on IG @koshinpaleyellison   About Megan:  Psychotherapist Megan Devine is one of today’s leading experts on grief, from life-altering losses to the everyday grief that we don’t call grief. Get the best-selling book on grief in over a decade, It’s Ok that You’re Not OK, wherever you get books. Find Megan @refugeingrief   Additional Resources: Chodo and Koshin joined us in season one of It’s Ok that You’re Not OK. Listen to that episode here.    Learn about the New York Zen Center’s contemplative care program at zencare.org   Want to talk with Megan directly? Join our patreon community for live monthly Q&A grief clinics: your questions, answered. Want to speak to her privately? Apply for a 1:1 grief consultation here.    Check out Megan’s best-selling books - It’s OK That You're Not OK and How to Carry What Can’t Be Fixed   Books and resources may contain affiliate links. Follow our show on Instagram, Facebook, Twitter, and TikTok @refugeingrief and @itsokpod on TikTok. For more information, including clinical training and consulting and to share your thoughts, visit us at refugeingrief.comSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

On the outside, veteran Jason Kander had everything going for him: successful political career, lovely family, the respect of his peers. But on the inside, he was struggling: nightmares, depression and suicidal thoughts were constant companions. Jason joins us to talk about his new book, Invisible Storm, and what it really takes to go from post traumatic stress to post traumatic growth. (Don’t let that ‘post traumatic growth’ turn you away from this episode! There are no shortcuts to happiness here.)    In this episode we cover:    - Why most returning vets believe that getting help is great - for other people.  - The concept of “stolen valor” and how it relates to treatment options for PTSD - How Jason used shame as a way to give himself the illusion of control  - What “redemptive heroism” is, and why there’s a much better way to manage PTSD - Every trauma is valid trauma: avoiding the temptation of comparing emotional injury   We're re-releasing some of our favorite episodes from the first 3 seasons. This episode was originally recorded in 2022.   Looking for a creative exploration of grief? Check out the best selling Writing Your Grief course here. About our guest: Jason Kander joined the Army National Guard in 2005 after getting a law degree at Georgetown University. He deployed in 2006 to Afghanistan, where his mission was to assess the corruption levels of former Afghan warlords and government leaders. Ten years after serving in Afghanistan, Jason Kander was a rising star in the Democratic Party, exploring a presidential run. But outside of the political spotlight, he was racked by nightmares, depression and suicidal thoughts. His book, Invisible Storm, shares the story of his experience with PTSD, and his hopes for anyone who’s survived trauma.  Jason is the president of the Veterans Community Project, a national nonprofit organization, and the host of Majority 54, one of the nation's most popular political podcasts. Follow him on social media @jasonkander   About Megan:  Psychotherapist Megan Devine is one of today’s leading experts on grief, from life-altering losses to the everyday grief that we don’t call grief. Get the best-selling book on grief in over a decade, It’s Ok that You’re Not OK, wherever you get books. Find Megan @refugeingrief   Additional Resources: The book Jason mentioned is Tribe by Sebastian Junger   Want to talk with Megan directly? Join our patreon community for live monthly Q&A grief clinics: your questions, answered. Want to speak to her privately? Apply for a 1:1 grief consultation here.  Check out Megan’s best-selling books - It’s OK That You're Not OK and How to Carry What Can’t Be Fixed Books and resources may contain affiliate links. Follow our show on Instagram, Facebook, Twitter, and TikTok @refugeingrief and @itsokpod on TikTok. For more information, including clinical training and consulting and to share your thoughts, visit us at refugeingrief.comSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Dr. Errol Pierre is a corporate executive, leader, mentor, and outspoken advocate for healthcare equity in the US and Haiti. HIs book, The Way Up, helps underrepresented individuals from all ethnic backgrounds achieve their professional goals and elevate their careers in today's workplace.    What you probably don’t know is that grief - in one form or another - plays a part in every one of those roles.    In this episode we cover:    Why a book about climbing the corporate ladder gets the spotlight on a show about grief How little kid Errol’s delayed root canal influenced adult Errol’s entire career Building the equitable world from the ground up: Errol’s work in Haiti  Why making healthcare more accessible will prevent more grief (when it’s avoidable), and reduce suffering (when it’s unavoidable)  Navigating racism in the corporate world    We're re-releasing some of our favorite episodes from the first 3 seasons. This episode was originally recorded in 2023.   Looking for a creative exploration of grief? Check out the best selling Writing Your Grief course here.   About our guest:  Dr. Errol Pierre is the Senior Vice President of State Programs at a large non-profit health plan in New York. He provides leadership, mentorship, and guidance to professionals of color across various industries, ensuring the advancement of diverse professionals into leadership positions. He’s also fiercely committed to healthcare equity - building a world where systemic equity is built into the foundation of all new ventures.    Follow Dr. Errol Pierre at @ErrolLPierre on most social platforms or visit errolpierre.com   About Megan:  Psychotherapist Megan Devine is one of today’s leading experts on grief, from life-altering losses to the everyday grief that we don’t call grief. Get the best-selling book on grief in over a decade, It’s Ok that You’re Not OK, wherever you get books. Find Megan @refugeingrief   Additional Resources: Read Errol’s book - The Way Up: Climbing the Corporate Mountain as a Professional of Color   For more on grief in the workplace, read “The Burden of Bereavement: Grief is the latest challenge for employers in the coronavirus era” and “How to Talk to a Grieving Customer”   Want to talk with Megan directly? Join our patreon community for live monthly Q&A grief clinics: your questions, answered. Want to speak to her privately? Apply for a 1:1 grief consultation here.    Check out Megan’s best-selling books - It’s OK That You're Not OK and How to Carry What Can’t Be Fixed Books and resources may contain affiliate links.   Follow our show on Instagram, Facebook, Twitter, and TikTok @refugeingrief and @itsokpod on TikTok. For more information, including clinical training and consulting and to share your thoughts, visit us at refugeingrief.comSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Nobody likes to talk about pet loss… but everybody wants to talk about pet loss. What a difficult scenario that is! Veterinary oncologist Dr. Renee Alsarraf, author of Sit, Stay, Heal, joins us to talk about grief, professionalism, and the importance of being human - on the job and off.    In this episode we cover:    The whole truth about loving - and losing - your pets The terrible advice Dr. Renee Alsarraf’s grad school teacher gave her (and why she refused to listen)  Why vets and other professionals should really NOT check their human emotions at the door When it’s time to welcome a new love into your life (human or otherwise) How Dr. Alsarraf’s experience with veterinary oncology did (and didn’t) prepare her for her own cancer diagnosis   We're re-releasing some of our favorite episodes from the first 3 seasons. This episode was originally recorded in 2022.   Looking for a creative exploration of grief? Check out the best selling Writing Your Grief course here. About our guest:  Dr. Renee Alsarraf is a veterinary oncologist, lecturer, and philanthropist. Her book, Sit, Stay, Heal, is a moving and uplifting memoir of an esteemed veterinary oncologist fighting to save her four-legged patients while making sense of her own unexpected cancer diagnosis.   Find Dr. Alsarraf on IG @reneealsarraf and learn more about her book at sitstayhealbook.com   About Megan:  Psychotherapist Megan Devine is one of today’s leading experts on grief, from life-altering losses to the everyday grief that we don’t call grief. Get the best-selling book on grief in over a decade, It’s Ok that You’re Not OK, wherever you get books. Find Megan @refugeingrief   Additional Resources: Read Dr. Alsarraf’s book - Sit, Stay, Heal: What Dogs Can Teach Us about Living Well   Want to talk with Megan directly? Join our patreon community for live monthly Q&A grief clinics: your questions, answered. Want to speak to her privately? Apply for a 1:1 grief consultation here.    Check out Megan’s best-selling books - It’s OK That You're Not OK and How to Carry What Can’t Be Fixed Books and resources may contain affiliate links.   Follow our show on Instagram, Facebook, Twitter, and TikTok @refugeingrief and  For more information, including clinical training and consulting and to share your thoughts, visit us at refugeingrief.comSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Can you hide in plain sight? From trans beauty pageants in the Philippines, to the catwalks of New York City fashion week, to the Ted Talk mainstage – Filipina-American model Geena Rocero has lived an astounding life. This week on It’s OK that You’re Not OK, the author of Horse Barbie: A Memoir shares what it costs to suppress your true self in order to find safety and success, and why joy is powerful medicine.  Geena Rocero is a trans advocate, speaker, and author of the new book, Horse Barbie.   In this episode we cover:  Why do we have to talk about gender all the time anyway? How can parents support trans children?  The history of trans beauty pageants in the Philippines Why joy - and a sense of humor - are real survival tools   We're re-releasing some of our favorite episodes from the first 3 seasons. This episode was originally recorded in 2023.   Looking for a creative exploration of grief? Check out the best selling Writing Your Grief course here. Related Episodes: Coming Home to Yourself with Alex Elle If I Survived, You Can Too! Author Emi Nietfeld on the Hollowness of the Transformation Narrative Over and Over Again: Illustrator Aubrey Hirsch on the Power of Storytelling About our guest: Geena Rocero is a Filipina-American model, public speaker, author, and trans rights advocate. Ms. Rocero made history as the first trans woman ambassador for Miss Universe Nepal, and the first trans Asian Playboy Playmate of the Year. Her TED Talk, “Why I Must Come Out,” has been viewed over 3.7 million times. She’s an advisory board member of SeeHer, a global coalition working to increase representation and accurate portrayal of all women and girls in marketing, media, and entertainment.  She’s spoken at the White House and United Nations, and has been featured on CNN, MSNBC, Glamour, Cosmopolitan, Vanity Fair, and Variety. Her book Horse Barbie: A Memoir was named one of the Best Memoirs of 2023 by Elle Magazine. Find her @geenarocero on Instagram, Facebook, and Twitter   About Megan:  Psychotherapist Megan Devine is one of today’s leading experts on grief, from life-altering losses to the everyday grief that we don’t call grief. Get the best-selling book on grief in over a decade, It’s Ok that You’re Not OK, wherever you get books. Find Megan @refugeingrief   Additional Resources: Watch Geena’s TED Talk “Why I Must Come Out”   Read Geena’s book - Horse Barbie: A Memoir    Want to talk with Megan directly? Join our patreon community for live monthly Q&A grief clinics: your questions, answered. Want to speak to her privately? Apply for a 1:1 grief consultation here.    Check out Megan’s best-selling books - It’s OK That You're Not OK and How to Carry What Can’t Be Fixed Books and resources may contain affiliate links.See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Have you ever put on a face mask, expecting it to solve all your mental health problems?  That seems…unrealistic, but it’s what self-care marketing tells us: get your self-care right, and all your difficulties will evaporate. This week on It’s OK, Dr. Pooja Lakshmin, author of Real Self-Care, breaks down what “self-care” actually means when we’re living in a complex, capitalistic world. It’s an exploration of grief, burnout, and exhaustion, and what it takes to care for yourself inside systems that repeatedly ignore their part in your suffering.    In this episode we cover:  Why self-care doesn’t work How hope is different than optimism Does looking for your own answers mean you have to do things alone? Accepting help as a bid for connection How Dr. Lakshmin’s definition of boundaries can help you practice real self-care   We're re-releasing some of our favorite episodes from the first 3 seasons. This episode was originally recorded in 2023.   Looking for a creative exploration of grief? Check out the best selling Writing Your Grief course here.   Follow the show on Instagram, Facebook, Twitter, and TikTok @refugeingrief   Related episodes: Rage Becomes Her (and by “her” I mean US) with Soraya Chemaly   Living with Chronic Illness: A Conversation for Everyone with a Body with Sarah Ramey. About our guest: Dr. Pooja Lakshmin MD is a psychiatrist, a clinical assistant professor at George Washington University School of Medicine, and the founder and CEO of Gemma, the women’s mental health community centering impact and equity. She has spent thousands of hours taking care of women struggling with burnout, despair, depression, and anxiety in her clinical practice. Her debut non-fiction book, Real Self-Care: A Transformative Program for Redefining Wellness (Crystals, Cleanses, and Bubble Baths Not Included), is available in e-book, hardcover, and audiobook narrated by Pooja.   About Megan:  Psychotherapist Megan Devine is one of today’s leading experts on grief, from life-altering losses to the everyday grief that we don’t call grief. Get the best-selling book on grief in over a decade, It’s Ok that You’re Not OK, wherever you get books. Find Megan @refugeingrief   Additional Resources: Read “Hope is Not a Thing to Have – It’s a Skill to Practice” at Oprah Daily   Read “How Society Has Turned Its Back on Mothers” at The New York Times   Read “Saying ‘No’ Is Self-Care for Parents” at The New York Times   Want to talk with Megan directly? Join our patreon community for live monthly Q&A grief clinics: your questions, answered. Want to speak to her privately? Apply for a 1:1 grief consultation here.    Check out Megan’s best-selling books - It’s OK That You're Not OK and How to Carry What Can’t Be Fixed Books and resources may contain affiliate links.See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

We’re in a massive climate crisis, but it’s hard to think about it, isn’t it?  It’s a great temptation to shut our eyes to climate change. It’s overwhelming. This week on the show, climate activist and author Bill McKibben on facing the reality of the climate crisis, understanding what needs to change, and what you can do - not just to change the course of humanity and the planet, but to feel more hopeful and connected as this all unfolds.    In this episode we cover:    Is halting climate change really dependent on personal recycling and whether we use plastic straws?  Is it okay to have intense emotional responses to wildfires, floods, and the inaction of those “in charge”?  How the boomer generation is using their experience and wealth to revisit the activism of their youth (and supporting younger activists at the same time) How talking about our fears and our ecological grief gives us common ground to fight for our future - and our present.  We're re-releasing some of our favorite episodes from the first 3 seasons. This episode was originally recorded in 2023.   Looking for a creative exploration of grief? Check out the best selling Writing Your Grief course here. For more on activism in the face of impossible odds listen to these related episodes:  Women, Life, Freedom: Grief and Power In Iran, with Nazanin Nour Wonder in an Age of Violence with Valarie Kaur & See No Stranger About our guest: Bill McKibben is an American environmentalist, author, and journalist who has written extensively on the impact of global warming. His books include The End of Nature, about climate change, and Falter: Has the Human Game Begun to Play Itself Out?, about the state of the environmental challenges facing humanity.  Bill is a contributing writer to The New Yorker (read his latest piece here), and founder of Third Act, which organizes people over the age of sixty for progressive change.   About Megan:  Psychotherapist Megan Devine is one of today’s leading experts on grief, from life-altering losses to the everyday grief that we don’t call grief. Get the best-selling book on grief in over a decade, It’s Ok that You’re Not OK, wherever you get books. Find Megan @refugeingrief Additional Resources: Terry Tempest Williams’ book Refuge: An Unnatural History of Family and Place, and her recent NYT article on Utah’s great Salt Lake (gift link, no subscription needed)   Explore Joanna Macy’s work on the intersection of grief and activism at her website, or her books, including Coming Back to Life: The Updated Guide to the Work That Reconnects, World as Lover, World as Self, and Widening Circles: A Memoir   Want to talk with Megan directly? Join our patreon community for live monthly Q&A grief clinics: your questions, answered. Want to speak to her privately? Apply for a 1:1 grief consultation here.    Check out Megan’s best-selling books - It’s OK That You're Not OK and How to Carry What Can’t Be Fixed Books and resources may contain affiliate links.   Follow our show on Instagram, Facebook, Twitter, and TikTok @refugeingrief For more information, including clinical training and consulting and to share your thoughts, visit us at refugeingrief.comSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Can grief be an opportunity for growth and self-understanding? The answer, of course, is yes: but it’s a bit more complex than that. This week, author, philanthropist, activist Rachel Cargle on survival optimism, the resilience narrative, and why questioning the stories you tell yourself - with curiosity and kindness - is a powerful path of healing.    In this episode we cover:    How was grief modeled for you growing up, and how does that affect later grief? Can your memory of childhood grief be… entirely wrong? (or at least, inaccurate) Can you do grief wrong? The difference between curiosity and judgment Is it ok to feel relieved when a sick person dies?  Rachel’s new book, A Renaissance of Our Own   We're re-releasing some of our favorite episodes from the first 3 seasons. This episode was originally recorded in 2023.   Looking for a creative exploration of grief? Check out the best selling Writing Your Grief course here. Related episodes: Gabor Mate on why we celebrate trauma, aka: resilience  Illustrator Aubrey Hirsch on the power of storytelling as an act of healing About our guest: Rachel Cargle is a writer, entrepreneur and philanthropic innovator. Her new memoir, A Renaissance of Our Own, centers the reimagining of womanhood, solidarity and self. In 2018 she founded The Loveland Foundation, Inc., a non-profit offering free therapy to Black women and girls.    She’s also the founder of Elizabeth’s Bookshop & Writing Centre, a literacy space designed to amplify, celebrate and honor the work of writers who are often excluded from traditional cultural, social and academic canons. For more on her many endeavors, visit rachelcargle.com.   About Megan:  Psychotherapist Megan Devine is one of today’s leading experts on grief, from life-altering losses to the everyday grief that we don’t call grief. Get the best-selling book on grief in over a decade, It’s Ok that You’re Not OK, wherever you get books. Find Megan @refugeingrief   Additional Resources: Read Rachel’s new book - A Renaissance of Our Own   The Great Unlearn – a self-paced, donation-based learning community   The Great Unlearn for Young Learners – an online learning space for young folks launching in 2022   Want to talk with Megan directly? Join our patreon community for live monthly Q&A grief clinics: your questions, answered. Want to speak to her privately? Apply for a 1:1 grief consultation here.    Check out Megan’s best-selling books - It’s OK That You're Not OK and How to Carry What Can’t Be FixedSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

What would a meaningful life look like for you? According to Death Doula Alua Arthur, conversations about death can be the most enriching conversations we have.    It’s not about accepting death, or avoiding grief - it’s about building a relationship with yourself and others that doesn’t hold anything back. Why should you listen? Yeah, because you’re mortal and one day you'll die, but more importantly: because one day, hopefully in the far off future, you’ll look back at this life you’ve lived. Conversations about death can make that life so much better.    Alua’s new book is Briefly Perfectly Human: Making an Authentic Life by Getting Real about the End. For more info visit aluaarthur.com   In this episode we cover:    What’s a Death Doula?  Does being honest about death give you access to joy? Should you tell someone that they’re dying, or does that remove hope?  Why living each day like it’s your last is unrealistic (and what to do instead)  The linking of death and grief: Death and grief are married, but grief definitely dates around.    We're re-releasing some of our favorite episodes from the first 3 seasons. This episode was originally recorded in 2023.   Looking for a creative exploration of grief? Check out the best selling Writing Your Grief course here. Related episodes: Trauma Surgeon Dr. Red Hoffman on the surprisingly broad umbrella of palliative care   The co-founders of the New York Zen Center for Contemplative Care on supporting burnout & stress among healthcare professionals & caregivers About our guest: Alua Arthur is a Death Doula, recovering attorney, and the founder of Going with Grace, a Death Doula training and end-of-life planning organization that exists to support people as they answer the question, “What must I do to be at peace with myself so that I may live presently and die gracefully?” She’s been featured in the LA Times, Vogue, Refinery29, The Doctors, and alongside Chris Hemsworth on the docuseries, Limitless. Find her at aluaarthur.com and on Instagram at @going_with_grace    About Megan:  Psychotherapist Megan Devine is one of today’s leading experts on grief, from life-altering losses to the everyday grief that we don’t call grief. Get the best-selling book on grief in over a decade, It’s Ok that You’re Not OK, wherever you get books. Find Megan @refugeingrief   Additional Resources: Read Alua’s new book - Briefly Perfectly Human   Going with Grace   Megan mentions this book -  Pronoia Is the Antidote for Paranoia   Want to talk with Megan directly? Join our patreon community for live monthly Q&A grief clinics: your questions, answered. Want to speak to her privately? Apply for a 1:1 grief consultation here.    Check out Megan’s best-selling books - It’s OK That You're Not OK and How to Carry What Can’t Be FixedSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

What do we lose when we’re not allowed to be angry?    In a lot of ways, anger is more taboo than grief. They’re deeply related, as you’ll hear in this two-part episode: both grief and anger are considered “negative” emotions, things you shouldn’t feel, and definitely shouldn’t express in polite company. But what if reclaiming our anger was the way to build the world - and the relationships - we most want? All of that and more with the best selling author of Rage Becomes Her, Soraya Chemaly.    In this two-part episode we cover:    What is the right amount of anger? Why deciding some emotions are “good” and some are “bad” isn’t really helpful  What would “anger competence” or “anger literacy” look like? (and why would you want that??)  Why Soraya says “most grief is ambiguous grief” How the old split between the head (logic) and the heart (emotion) cuts us off from what we most want Finding your best community by embracing your anger   We're re-releasing some of our favorite episodes from the first 3 seasons. This episode was originally recorded in 2023.   Looking for a creative exploration of grief? Check out the best selling Writing Your Grief course here.   About our guest: Soraya Chemaly is an award-winning writer and activist whose work focuses on the role of gender in culture, politics, religion, and media. She is the Director of the Women’s Media Center Speech Project and an advocate for women’s freedom of expression and expanded civic and political engagement. A prolific writer and speaker, her articles appear in TIME, The Verge, The Guardian, The Nation, HuffPost, and The Atlantic. Find her best selling book, Rage Becomes Her at sorayachemaly.com. Follow her on social media @sorayachemaly   About Megan:  Psychotherapist Megan Devine is one of today’s leading experts on grief, from life-altering losses to the everyday grief that we don’t call grief. Get the best-selling book on grief in over a decade, It’s Ok that You’re Not OK, wherever you get books. Find Megan @refugeingrief   Additional Resources: We mention Pauline Boss in this episode. If you’re not familiar with her excellent work on ambiguous loss (a term she coined in the 1970s), check out her website at ambiguousloss.com   To read more about anger and how it relates to grief, check out It’s OK that You’re Not OK.   If you want to explore your anger with creative prompts and exercises, check out the guided journal for grief, How to Carry What Can’t Be Fixed.    Want to talk with Megan directly? Join our patreon community for live monthly Q&A grief clinics: your questions, answered. Want to speak to her privately? Apply for a 1:1 grief consultation here.    Books and resources may contain affiliate links.See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

What do we lose when we’re not allowed to be angry?    In a lot of ways, anger is more taboo than grief. They’re deeply related, as you’ll hear in this two-part episode: both grief and anger are considered “negative” emotions, things you shouldn’t feel, and definitely shouldn’t express in polite company. But what if reclaiming our anger was the way to build the world - and the relationships - we most want? All of that and more with the best selling author of Rage Becomes Her, Soraya Chemaly.    In this two-part episode we cover:    What is the right amount of anger? Why deciding some emotions are “good” and some are “bad” isn’t really helpful  What would “anger competence” or “anger literacy” look like? (and why would you want that??)  Why Soraya says “most grief is ambiguous grief” How the old split between the head (logic) and the heart (emotion) cuts us off from what we most want Finding your best community by embracing your anger   We're re-releasing some of our favorite episodes from the first 3 seasons. This episode was originally recorded in 2023.   Looking for a creative exploration of grief? Check out the best selling Writing Your Grief course here.   About our guest: Soraya Chemaly is an award-winning writer and activist whose work focuses on the role of gender in culture, politics, religion, and media. She is the Director of the Women’s Media Center Speech Project and an advocate for women’s freedom of expression and expanded civic and political engagement. A prolific writer and speaker, her articles appear in TIME, The Verge, The Guardian, The Nation, HuffPost, and The Atlantic. Find her best selling book, Rage Becomes Her at sorayachemaly.com. Follow her on social media @sorayachemaly   About Megan:  Psychotherapist Megan Devine is one of today’s leading experts on grief, from life-altering losses to the everyday grief that we don’t call grief. Get the best-selling book on grief in over a decade, It’s Ok that You’re Not OK, wherever you get books. Find Megan @refugeingrief   Additional Resources: We mention Pauline Boss in this episode. If you’re not familiar with her excellent work on ambiguous loss (a term she coined in the 1970s), check out her website at ambiguousloss.com   To read more about anger and how it relates to grief, check out It’s OK that You’re Not OK.   If you want to explore your anger with creative prompts and exercises, check out the guided journal for grief, How to Carry What Can’t Be Fixed.    Want to talk with Megan directly? Join our patreon community for live monthly Q&A grief clinics: your questions, answered. Want to speak to her privately? Apply for a 1:1 grief consultation here.    Books and resources may contain affiliate links.See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

What should you do if someone wants to be friends, but you’re not into it? Boundaries are part of all human relationships, but they are TRICKY.    Welcome to part two of our show about boundaries - how to make them, how to keep them, and sometimes, how to breach them - with special guest Dr. Alexandra Solomon, host of Reimagining Love. In this episode we cover:   Starting over in a new place with new friends  Why we so often confuse boundaries with being mean or rude The power of social observation to gather data (Megan’s go-to move!)  Scripts for saying “no thank you” to a potential friendship when that feels both mean and necessary   We're re-releasing some of our favorite episodes from the first 3 seasons. This episode was originally recorded in 2022.   Looking for a creative exploration of grief? Check out the best selling Writing Your Grief course here.   About our guest: Dr Alexandra Solomon is one of the most trusted voices in the world of relationships. She’s a licensed clinical psychologist at The Family Institute at Northwestern University  and the author of two bestselling books: Loving Bravely and Taking Sexy Back.    You might know her from her popular instagram channel @dr.alexandra.solomon, or from her podcast, Reimagining Love. Find her at dralexandrasolomon.com    About Megan:  Psychotherapist Megan Devine is one of today’s leading experts on grief, from life-altering losses to the everyday grief that we don’t call grief. Get the best-selling book on grief in over a decade, It’s Ok that You’re Not OK, wherever you get books. Find Megan @refugeingrief   Additional Resources: Want to train with Dr. Solomon? Check out her current training courses at dralexandrasolomon.com   Want to talk with Megan directly? Join our patreon community for live monthly Q&A grief clinics: your questions, answered. Want to speak to her privately? Apply for a 1:1 grief consultation here.    Check out Megan’s best-selling books - It’s OK That You're Not OK and How to Carry What Can’t Be Fixed Books and resources may contain affiliate links.   Follow our show on Instagram, Facebook, Twitter, and TikTok @refugeingrief and @itsokpod on TikTok. For more information, including clinical training and consulting and to share your thoughts, visit us at refugeingrief.comSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

What do you do when someone cuts you out of their life? How do you back away slowly from someone you really don’t want to be around? Boundaries are part of all human relationships, but they are TRICKY.    This week on It’s OK, part one of our show about boundaries - how to make them, how to keep them, and sometimes, how to breach them - with special guest Dr. Alexandra Solomon, host of Reimagining Love. In this episode we cover:   Why relational self-awareness is the key to all good relationships Can step-parents and adult step-kids get along after a loss in the family?  How to negotiate the relationship you want when the other people maybe don’t want you around The difference between “letting go of outcome” and setting yourself up for success   We're re-releasing some of our favorite episodes from the first 3 seasons. This episode was originally recorded in 2022.   Looking for a creative exploration of grief? Check out the best selling Writing Your Grief course here.   About our guest: Dr Alexandra Solomon is one of the most trusted voices in the world of relationships. She’s a licensed clinical psychologist at The Family Institute at Northwestern University  and the author of two bestselling books: Loving Bravely and Taking Sexy Back.    You might know her from her popular instagram channel @dr.alexandra.solomon, or from her podcast, Reimagining Love. Find her at dralexandrasolomon.com   About Megan:  Psychotherapist Megan Devine is one of today’s leading experts on grief, from life-altering losses to the everyday grief that we don’t call grief. Get the best-selling book on grief in over a decade, It’s Ok that You’re Not OK, wherever you get books. Find Megan @refugeingrief   Additional Resources: Want to train with Dr. Solomon? Check out her current training courses at dralexandrasolomon.com   Want to talk with Megan directly? Join our patreon community for live monthly Q&A grief clinics: your questions, answered. Want to speak to her privately? Apply for a 1:1 grief consultation here.    Check out Megan’s best-selling books - It’s OK That You're Not OK and How to Carry What Can’t Be Fixed Books and resources may contain affiliate links.   Follow our show on Instagram, Facebook, Twitter, and TikTok @refugeingrief and @itsokpod on TikTok. For more information, including clinical training and consulting and to share your thoughts, visit us at refugeingrief.comSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

If you’ve lived through horrific trauma or abuse, is it really fair of us to say that the ways you’ve learned to cope are “bad,” or to use clinical speak, “maladaptive”?  This week on It’s OK, Stephanie Foo, author of What My Bones Know, joins me to talk about complex PTSD and the ways we pathologize human responses to trauma. You’ll also hear how claiming your own messy, complex coping mechanisms can help you build a community that sees you and loves you.  If you’re haunted by any type of trauma, or know someone who is, this conversation is a great introduction to complex PTSD, and the work of survivorship.    In this episode we cover:    Why pretending to be a high-performing badass is maybe not in your best interest How storytelling can make you feel less freakish and alone The real problem with most books on trauma and C-PTSD   We're re-releasing some of our favorite episodes from the first 3 seasons. This episode was originally recorded in 2022.   Looking for a creative exploration of grief? Check out the best selling Writing Your Grief course here.   About our guest: Stephanie Foo is a C-PTSD survivor, writer, and radio producer, most recently for This American Life. Her work has aired on Snap Judgment, Reply All, 99% Invisible, and Radiolab. A noted speaker and instructor, she has taught at Columbia University and has spoken at venues from Sundance Film Festival to the Missouri Department of Mental Health. She lives in New York City with her husband.   Find her at stephaniefoo.me and on Instagram @foofoofoo   About Megan:  Psychotherapist Megan Devine is one of today’s leading experts on grief, from life-altering losses to the everyday grief that we don’t call grief. Get the best-selling book on grief in over a decade, It’s Ok that You’re Not OK, wherever you get books. Find Megan @refugeingrief   Additional Resources: Read Stephanie’s book, What My Bones Know: A Memoir of Healing from Complex Trauma   Want to talk with Megan directly? Join our patreon community for live monthly Q&A grief clinics: your questions, answered. Want to speak to her privately? Apply for a 1:1 grief consultation here.    Check out Megan’s best-selling books - It’s OK That You're Not OK and How to Carry What Can’t Be Fixed Books and resources may contain affiliate links. Follow our show on Instagram, Facebook, Twitter, and TikTok @refugeingrief and @itsokpod on TikTok. For more information, including clinical training and consulting and to share your thoughts, visit us at refugeingrief.com Listen to previous episodes of It’s OK that You’re Not OK!See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

There’s no denying the grief that permeates everyday life. It’s in the news, in our communities, and in our personal lives. The thing is - we never really talk about how much this grief connects us.  This episode is STUNNING. It has gifts for everyone - whether you’re grieving a personal loss or you’re an activist of any kind. It was recorded in the summer of 2023, so you will not hear us mention P*lestine - you can bet if we’d recorded it now, that grief, and that need for belonging, would be present. If you ARE an activist or organizer, you need to hear what Malkia has to say about our narrative strategies, and what it really takes to make change happen. If we learn to lean into that grief together, we might really create the beautiful world we all long for. Malkia Devich-Cyril knows grief from the inside out. They grew up knowing their mom would die of her illness. They grew up immersed in the grief that is endemic to being Black in America. And they cared for their wife, comedian Alana Devich-Cyril, through her death in 2018.   In this episode we cover:    The difference between sorrow and grief How “feelings aren’t facts” relates to grief Is it normal to feel like you failed to keep someone alive?  Why do narrative strategists (aka: activists) need to understand grief?  Are book bans a form of grief? (spoiler: yes, but maybe not for the reasons you think) Looking for a creative exploration of grief? Check out the best selling Writing Your Grief course here. Related episodes:  Rage Becomes Her (and by “her” I mean US) with Soraya Chemaly Collective Grief and Communal Joy: with Baratunde Thurston Wonder in an Age of Violence: Valarie Kaur & See No Stranger About our guest: Malkia Devich-Cyril is an activist, writer and public speaker on issues of digital rights, narrative power, Black liberation and collective grief. They are also the founding and former Executive Director of MediaJustice. Their writing has appeared in publications like Politico, Motherboard, Essence Magazine, The Atlantic, and three documentary films including the Oscar nominated 13th. Find them at @radical_loss Instagram.   About Megan:  Psychotherapist Megan Devine is one of today’s leading experts on grief, from life-altering losses to the everyday grief that we don’t call grief. Get the best-selling book on grief in over a decade, It’s Ok that You’re Not OK, wherever you get books. Find Megan @refugeingrief   Additional resources: Read “The Antidote to Authoritarianism” from The Atlantic   Read Grief Belongs in Social Movements: We Embrace it?  Want to talk with Megan directly? Join our patreon community for live monthly Q&A grief clinics: your questions, answered. Want to speak to her privately? Apply for a 1:1 grief consultation here.    Check out Megan’s best-selling books - It’s OK That You're Not OK and How to Carry What Can’t Be Fixed   Books and resources may contain affiliate links.See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

PROLONGED GRIEF DISORDER! It’s everywhere - social media, The New York Times, The Washington Post… it’s the hot new medical condition everyone’s talking about. But why is everyone so mad about it?  This week on the show, an overview of this hotly contested “new” human disorder, and what it means for the average person, for healthcare providers, and honestly - for the whole world. This is one medical diagnosis that affects everyone.    In this episode we cover:    Why anyone should care what the APA thinks about grief The actual diagnostic criteria for prolonged grief disorder (translated from psych-jargon into the way real people speak) Access to care + funding for research: two of the main reasons people think this diagnosis could be helpful (and why it isn’t)  The real world impact of the DSM: doubling down on shame and misunderstanding One surprise reason this diagnosis *could* be seen as a good thing   We're re-releasing some of our favorite episodes from the first 3 seasons. This episode was originally recorded in 2022   Looking for a creative exploration of grief? Check out the best selling Writing Your Grief course here.   About Megan:  Psychotherapist Megan Devine is one of today’s leading experts on grief, from life-altering losses to the everyday grief that we don’t call grief. Get the best-selling book on grief in over a decade, It’s Ok that You’re Not OK, wherever you get books. Find Megan @refugeingrief   Additional resources: For an interview with both Megan and the author of the NYT article, Ellen Barry, on WGBH TV Boston, click here.    To read Megan’s more detailed response to the NYT article, check out the original Twitter thread, and the extended thread.    Want to talk with Megan directly? Join our patreon community for live monthly Q&A grief clinics: your questions, answered. Want to speak to her privately? Apply for a 1:1 grief consultation here.    Check out Megan’s best-selling books - It’s OK That You're Not OK and How to Carry What Can’t Be Fixed Books and resources may contain affiliate links.See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Sam Sanders is a well known and well loved radio and podcast host. He went a little extra-viral for a recent episode of his show, Vibe Check,  in which he and his co-hosts openly discussed grief. Maybe you heard that episode: Life Has Been Lifing Lately.  This week on It’s OK That You’re Not OK, Sam joins us to talk about being open with his grief, and the ongoing relationships we have even after death.    In this episode we cover:    What happens if you give grief a voice?  The double-edged sword of church communities Why understanding context helps you treat yourself more kindly How men speaking honestly about grief helps everyone Throwing out the rule book on grief   We're re-releasing some of our favorite episodes from the first 3 seasons. This episode was originally recorded in 2023.   Looking for a creative exploration of grief? Check out the best selling Writing Your Grief course here.   Related episodes:  A Renaissance of our Own: Rachel Cargle    Coming Home to Yourself with Alex Elle   About our guest: Sam Sanders is the host of Into It, the flagship culture podcast from Vulture, and the co-host of Vibe Check on Stitcher. He covered electoral politics for NPR, and was one of the original co-hosts of The NPR Politics Podcast. Sam also created and hosted the NPR news & culture podcast, It’s Been a Minute. Find him on social @samsanders   About Megan:  Psychotherapist Megan Devine is one of today’s leading experts on grief, from life-altering losses to the everyday grief that we don’t call grief. Get the best-selling book on grief in over a decade, It’s Ok that You’re Not OK, wherever you get books. Find Megan @refugeingrief   Additional resources: Want to talk with Megan directly? Join our patreon community for live monthly Q&A grief clinics: your questions, answered. Want to speak to her privately? Apply for a 1:1 grief consultation here.    Check out Megan’s best-selling books - It’s OK That You're Not OK and How to Carry What Can’t Be Fixed Follow our show on Instagram, Facebook, Twitter, and TikTok @refugeingrief and @itsokpod on TikTok   Books and resources may contain affiliate links.See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Ever wonder what doctors say about their patients when they think no one can hear?  Dr. Rana Awdish doesn’t have to wonder - as a patient, she overheard a lot of distressing things. Her experience led her to change how medical providers speak about - and to - their patients, spreading compassion through communication (which we know is a mission dear to my heart). Listen in to hear Dr. Awdish’s take on the pressure on healthcare workers, too.  Content note: mention of life-threatening illness, pregnancy loss, medical industry   In this episode we cover:    The “two educations” of Dr. Awdish - med school and a life threatening illness Why miscommunication is such a dangerous medical practice Being present is only the first step - validation is where the real healing begins Why compassionate communication helps doctors - maybe even more than it helps patients  The very cool CLEAR program - using trained actors to help doctors & medical providers learn how to connect with patients going through some of the hardest times of their lives We're re-releasing some of our favorite episodes from the first 3 seasons. This episode was originally recorded in 2022.   Looking for a creative exploration of grief? Check out the best selling Writing Your Grief course here.   About our guest: Dr. Rana Awdish is a critical care physician operating on the front lines during COVID-19 at Henry Ford Hospital in Detroit, MI. Her own serious illness in 2008 has informed her belief in the power of compassion, sacred listening, and community. As medical director of the Care Experience for the Henry Ford Healthcare System, she is training staff to practice empathy in critical care. Find her at ranaawdishmd.com   About Megan:  Psychotherapist Megan Devine is one of today’s leading experts on grief, from life-altering losses to the everyday grief that we don’t call grief. Get the best-selling book on grief in over a decade, It’s Ok that You’re Not OK, wherever you get books. Find Megan @refugeingrief   Additional resources: Read Dr. Awdish’s book - In Shock: My journey from death to recovery and the redemptive power of hope Read  “Restoration in the Aftermath” and ”The Shape of the Shore” from Dr. Awdish Creative Writing as a Medical Instrument - paper by Jay Baruch, cited by Dr. Awdish Want to talk with Megan directly? Join our patreon community for live monthly Q&A grief clinics: your questions, answered. Want to speak to her privately? Apply for a 1:1 grief consultation here.    Check out Megan’s best-selling books - It’s OK That You're Not OK and How to Carry What Can’t Be Fixed   Books and resources may contain affiliate links.See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

It’s no secret that healthcare professionals and caregivers of all kinds are stretched beyond their limits. We can’t look to healthcare systems themselves to give us the care and attention we need, so where CAN we go for support (and answers)?  Don’t miss this week’s episode with guests Koshin Paley Ellison and Chodo Robert Campbell of the New York Zen Center for Contemplative Care.  In this episode we cover:   Why it’s important to look beyond the identified patient to the invisible web of caregivers The realities of caregiver burnout and stress The one practice you can do even - and especially - when you have no time to care for yourself Do you stay or do you go? Making decisions for yourself inside this healthcare system catastrophe   We're re-releasing some of our favorite episodes from the first 3 seasons. This episode was originally recorded in 2022.   Looking for a creative exploration of grief? Check out the best selling Writing Your Grief course here.   About our guests: Sensei Chodo Robert Campbell is co-founder of the New York Zen Center for Contemplative Care. His passion lies in bereavement counseling and advocating for change in the way our healthcare institutions work with the dying. Find Chodo and the NYZC @newyorkzencenter on IG, and online at zencare.org   Sensei Koshin Paley Ellison is an author, Zen teacher, Jungian psychotherapist, and Certified Chaplaincy Educator. He is the author of Wholehearted: Slow Down, Help Out, Wake Up and the co-editor of Awake at the Bedside: Contemplative Teachings on Palliative and End of Life Care. Find him on IG @koshinpaleyellison   About Megan:  Psychotherapist Megan Devine is one of today’s leading experts on grief, from life-altering losses to the everyday grief that we don’t call grief. Get the best-selling book on grief in over a decade, It’s Ok that You’re Not OK, wherever you get books. Find Megan @refugeingrief   Additional resources: If you work in healthcare, I very strongly recommend you check out New York Zen Center’s  Contemplative Medicine Fellowship.     To hear one of my favorite passages of all time, read by Chodo Robert Campbell, check out the first video at this link.   All of the Zen Center’s offerings, from books to support groups to ongoing educational opportunities can be found at zencare.org.    Want to talk with Megan directly? Join our patreon community for live monthly Q&A grief clinics: your questions, answered. Want to speak to her privately? Apply for a 1:1 grief consultation here.    Check out Megan’s best-selling books - It’s OK That You're Not OK and How to Carry What Can’t Be Fixed   Books and resources may contain affiliate links.See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

The world can feel like such a lonely place sometimes. You ever feel like there’s not enough love and support to go around? Like, there’s a severe shortage of compassion in the world, both for you and well, everyone? Me too, friends.  To get us into this topic, this week on It’s OK, we cover grief comparisons, like whether divorce and death should be compared, or if the death of anyone should be compared to the loss of a pet. Of course the short answer is no: grief comparisons are never useful. For the long answer though - listen to the show.  This episode is basically my TED talk, if I had one, on how we create that support-filled world we all want (and deserve). It’s my personal favorite episode of season one, brought to you again for this Valentine’s day.    In this episode we cover: Why comparing divorce to death, or pet loss to child loss, is a Very. Bad. Idea. (usually) Is it ok to be sad about a musician or actor’s death, even if you never met them?  How to treat compassion like an abundant resource AND have good boundaries all at the same  The path to the love-filled, support-rich world we all want (it’s not easy, but it’s worth it)  Terminology update: in this episode I use the term gender-fluid, but the term gender-expansive is more accurate.   Looking for a creative exploration of grief? Check out the best selling Writing Your Grief course here.   About Megan:  Psychotherapist Megan Devine is one of today’s leading experts on grief, from life-altering losses to the everyday grief that we don’t call grief. Get the best-selling book on grief in over a decade, It’s Ok that You’re Not OK, wherever you get books. Find Megan @refugeingrief   Notable quote:  “It sounds pretty woo but compassion really is an expandable resource. Practicing inclusion and validation means people feel heard, and heard people hear people, which means the whole culture starts to change from one of vindictive “how dare you feel that way!” to at worst, a neutral, impartial kindness, and at best - well, being generous like this creates a world built and sustained by love.” - Megan Devine   Resources:  Love in action! Check out this exceptionally non-extensive list of people to learn from as we grow the love-filled world we all want:  Rachel Cargle, Alok Menon, Alice Wong, Free Mom Hugs, Farmer Veteran Coalition, Natalie Weaver, & Resting Waters   Want to talk with Megan directly? Join our patreon community for live monthly Q&A grief clinics: your questions, answered. Want to speak to her privately? Apply for a 1:1 grief consultation here.    Check out Megan’s best-selling books - It’s OK That You're Not OK and How to Carry What Can’t Be Fixed   Books and resources may contain affiliate links.See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Tembi Locke lived an amazing love story: she met a handsome chef during a study abroad year in Italy when she was just 20 years old. They moved to LA to pursue Tembi’s acting career, and built a life around their love of food, family, and each other. And then leiomyosarcoma arrived.  Is it still a Hollywood love story if it doesn’t have a happy ending?   In this episode we cover:    Who’s the real couple behind the hit Netflix series, From Scratch?  Why Tembi made sure From Scratch was an honest guide to profound loss How the sleeper hit show Eureka taught Tembi that it’s ok to let people help How Tembi Locke learned about the grief in Never Have I Ever only after the show came out   We're re-releasing some of our favorite episodes from the first 3 seasons. This episode was originally recorded in 2023.   Looking for a creative exploration of grief? Check out the best selling Writing Your Grief course here.   Follow our show on Instagram, Facebook, Twitter, and TikTok @refugeingrief and @itsokpod on TikTok. Visit refugeingrief.com for resources & courses   Related episodes : Live Each Day Like It’s Your First: with Alua Arthur Grief In Fiction, Grief In Life, with Best-Selling Author, Emily X.R. Pan   About our guest: Tembi Locke is a writer, executive producer, and an accomplished actor. Her best-selling book, From Scratch: A Memoir of Love, Sicily, and Finding Home was the basis for the hit Netflix series, From Scratch. Find her @tembilocke   About Megan:  Psychotherapist Megan Devine is one of today’s leading experts on grief, from life-altering losses to the everyday grief that we don’t call grief. Get the best-selling book on grief in over a decade, It’s Ok that You’re Not OK, wherever you get books. Find Megan @refugeingrief   Additional resources: Read Tembi Locke’s book - From Scratch: A Memoir of Love, Sicily, and Finding Home   Want to talk with Megan directly? Join our patreon community for live monthly Q&A grief clinics: your questions, answered. Want to speak to her privately? Apply for a 1:1 grief consultation here.    Check out Megan’s best-selling books - It’s OK That You're Not OK and How to Carry What Can’t Be Fixed   Books and resources may contain affiliate links.See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Did anyone teach you that understanding your grief is the key to being (or becoming) a healthy human being? Probably not.  In this expansive episode, Megan speaks with world-renowned author and physician Gabor Maté about the role of trauma and grief in our personal lives and in society at large. Dr. Gabor Maté on grief, this week on It’s OK that You’re Not OK.   In this episode we cover:    What is “personal agency” and why does losing personal agency create disease?  Why calling grief a disorder has social, relational and political ramifications How do elephants grieve? Is it really so different from humans?  Women as the emotional shock absorbers for the rest of the world Dr. Gabor Maté’s conversation with Prince Harry (!)    We're re-releasing some of our favorite episodes from the first 3 seasons. This episode was originally recorded in 2023.   Looking for a creative exploration of grief? Check out the best selling Writing Your Grief course here.   Follow our show on Instagram, Facebook, Twitter, and TikTok @refugeingrief and @itsokpod on TikTok. Visit refugeingrief.com for resources & courses   About our guest:  Dr. Gabor Maté is a renowned speaker and author, with expertise in trauma, stress, addiction, and child development. He’s the NYT best-selling author of The Myth of Normal, Scattered Minds, the award-winning In the Realm of Hungry Ghosts, and many other books.    Find him at drgabormate.com   About Megan:  Psychotherapist Megan Devine is one of today’s leading experts on grief, from life-altering losses to the everyday grief that we don’t call grief. Get the best-selling book on grief in over a decade, It’s Ok that You’re Not OK, wherever you get books. Find Megan @refugeingrief   Additional resources: Watch the documentary The Wisdom of Trauma  exploring Gabor Maté’s work to understand the connection between illness, addiction, trauma, and society.     Read Hold on to Your Kids by Gordon Neufeld & Gabor Maté Want to talk with Megan directly? Join our patreon community for live monthly Q&A grief clinics: your questions, answered. Want to speak to her privately? Apply for a 1:1 grief consultation here.  Check out Megan’s best-selling books - It’s OK That You're Not OK and How to Carry What Can’t Be Fixed Books and resources may contain affiliate links.See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Can you heal pain by focusing on joy?  Baratunde Thurston gave what’s been called “the greatest TED talk of all time.” He’s written about being Black in America, he’s got a podcast about community involvement called How to Citizen, and he’s got a PBS television show that explores the beauty and diversity of America.  There’s a duality running through all of this work, and in Baratunde’s personal life: mourning and celebration. From the early death of a parent, to men’s emotional health, to violence against Black men and boys, to the healing power of play and community, this week’s episode is a fascinating discussion of both grief and celebration - and why you don’t get one without the other.    In this episode we cover:  Baratunde says he’s “wired for optimism” - which makes identifying his own grief… complicated How you can lose a parent at a young age and not recognize the impact until you’re an adult Why seeing other people be good parents can bring up grief Black joy and men’s community (plus the hashtag #BlackMenFrolicking) Why is it hard to play as an adult - and find other adults to play with?  We're re-releasing some of our favorite episodes from the first 3 seasons. This episode was originally recorded in 2023.   Looking for a creative exploration of grief? Check out the best selling Writing Your Grief course here.   About our guest: Baratunde Thurston is an Emmy-nominated, multi-platform storyteller and producer operating at the intersection of race, tech, democracy, and climate. He is the host of the PBS television series America Outdoors with Baratunde Thurston, creator and host of How To Citizen with Baratunde, and a founding partner of the new media startup Puck. His comedic memoir, How To Be Black, is a New York Times best-seller. Baratunde serves on the boards of BUILD.org and the Brooklyn Public Library.    Find him at baratunde.com and follow him on social media @baratunde   About Megan:  Psychotherapist Megan Devine is one of today’s leading experts on grief, from life-altering losses to the everyday grief that we don’t call grief. Get the best-selling book on grief in over a decade, It’s Ok that You’re Not OK, wherever you get books. Find Megan @refugeingrief   Additional resources: Read Baratunde’s book - How to be Black  Baratunde’s TED talk How to Deconstruct Racism, One Headline at a Time  ‘America is addicted to watching me die…’ - Baratunde’s Puck article "Thoughts & Tears For Tyre"  Baratunde mentioned Valarie Kaur - get her book, See No Stranger, and listen to her episode on It’s OK that You’re Not OK   Want to talk with Megan directly? Join our patreon community for live monthly Q&A grief clinics: your questions, answered. Want to speak to her privately? Apply for a 1:1 grief consultation here.    Check out Megan’s best-selling books - It’s OK That You're Not OK and How to Carry What Can’t Be Fixed   Books and resources may contain affiliate links.See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Have you ever wanted to just SMASH things? Leanne Pedante and her husband Miles’ relationship was built on bravery and communication - they worked so hard to reach the next step together, excited to explore the edges of possibility in love and in life. On his way back to see Leanne after several months away, Miles’ car veered off the road, and he was killed. In the just under three years since, Leanne has continued to grow the virtual reality fitness community, Supernatural. As a late-comer to fitness, Leanne is no stranger to using movement as a way to process and express pain.  Today on It’s OK, we discuss the ways grief has upended her life, and the ways that both movement and community have kept her alive - willing, at least most days, to lean into the full experience of life.    In this episode we cover:    Punk-style relationships: how Leanne & Miles created a marriage that suited them What one friend told Leanne, and how those words kept her tethered to the world Why grief-informed fitness should really be a thing The weird world of encouraging others to do things you’re not comfortable doing yourself   We're re-releasing some of our favorite episodes from the first 3 seasons.   Looking for a creative exploration of grief? Check out the best selling Writing Your Grief course here.   Follow our show on Instagram, Facebook, Twitter, and TikTok @refugeingrief and @itsokpod on TikTok. Visit refugeingrief.com for resources & courses About our guest: Leanne Pedante is a trainer and trauma + resiliency coach, whose work focuses on connecting people to their bodies and to their full potential. She works as both coach and the Head of Fitness for Supernatural, the VR fitness platform. Her own workouts let her celebrate her physical and mental strength and she wants to show others how to access the pride and power within joyful movement. Follow her on IG at @leannepedante About Megan:  Psychotherapist Megan Devine is one of today’s leading experts on grief, from life-altering losses to the everyday grief that we don’t call grief. Get the best-selling book on grief in over a decade, It’s Ok that You’re Not OK, wherever you get books. Find Megan @refugeingrief Additional resources: Sign up for Leanne’s newsletter and check out the other community-building things she’s created at her website leannepedante.com   Try Supernatural with a free trial (VR headset required) Want to talk with Megan directly? Join our patreon community for live monthly Q&A grief clinics: your questions, answered. Want to speak to her privately? Apply for a 1:1 grief consultation here.  Check out Megan’s best-selling books - It’s OK That You're Not OK and How to Carry What Can’t Be Fixed Books and resources may contain affiliate links.See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

The holidays are over - you made it. By the looks of our inbox, the season wasn’t easy. This week, a holiday debrief, including bad behavior from therapists, why religion is not the answer to grief, and some true facts about dating after loss.    In this episode we cover:   How to say “I can’t work with you” without accidentally shaming your patients or clients Why “but your (dead relative) is all around you, just in a new form!” maybe isn’t the most supportive thing to say Questions to ask yourself when faced with a surprise romantic breakup (and what that has to do with grief)  And as always - fun talk about boundaries.    We're re-releasing some of our favorite episodes from the first 3 seasons. This episode was originally recorded in 2022. Want to become a more grief-informed, human-centered therapist or provider? Registration is open now for Megan Devine’s 6 month online Grief Care Professional Certificate Program. Details at this link.    Follow our show on Instagram, Facebook, Twitter, and TikTok @refugeingrief and @itsokpod on TikTok. Visit refugeingrief.com for resources & courses.   About Megan:  Psychotherapist Megan Devine is one of today’s leading experts on grief, from life-altering losses to the everyday grief that we don’t call grief. Get the best-selling book on grief in over a decade, It’s Ok that You’re Not OK, wherever you get books. Find Megan @refugeingrief   Additional resources: Looking for a creative exploration of grief? Check out the best selling Writing Your Grief course here.   Want to talk with Megan directly? Join our patreon community for live monthly Q&A grief clinics: your questions, answered. Want to speak to her privately? Apply for a 1:1 grief consultation here.    Check out Megan’s best-selling books - It’s OK That You're Not OK and How to Carry What Can’t Be Fixed   Books and resources may contain affiliate links.See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Is acceptance overrated? What happens when you have to face a new year without your person in it (or without the health you used to have!)?  In this special two-part episode, we face the new year together - with special guest, historian, author, and queen of awkward conversations, Kate Bowler.    In part 2 of this episode we cover    How do you have hope for the year to come when right now maybe isn’t so great?  Acceptance, moving forward, and ferocious self-advocacy The Math of Suffering: this year, last year, and measuring love Why social bonds matter, and what happens when no one sees you We're re-releasing some of our favorite episodes from the first 3 seasons. This episode was originally recorded in 2021.   Looking for a creative exploration of grief? Check out the best selling Writing Your Grief course here. About our guest: Kate Bowler, PhD, is an associate professor of the history of Christianity in North America at Duke Divinity School. Author of the New York Times bestselling memoir, Everything Happens for a Reason (and Other Lies I’ve Loved). Her latest book, No Cure For Being Human (and Other Truths I Need to Hear), grapples with her diagnosis, her ambition, and her faith as she tries to come to terms with limitations in a culture that says anything is possible.    Find her at katebowler.com and follow her on social media @katecbowler   About Megan:  Psychotherapist Megan Devine is one of today’s leading experts on grief, from life-altering losses to the everyday grief that we don’t call grief. Get the best-selling book on grief in over a decade, It’s Ok that You’re Not OK, wherever you get books. Find Megan @refugeingrief   Additional resources: Read Kate Bowler’s memoir Everything Happens for a Reason (and Other Lies I’ve Loved)   Read Kate’s latest book No Cure For Being Human (and Other Truths I Need to Hear)   Want to talk with Megan directly? Join our patreon community for live monthly Q&A grief clinics: your questions, answered. Want to speak to her privately? Apply for a 1:1 grief consultation here.    Check out Megan’s best-selling books - It’s OK That You're Not OK and How to Carry What Can’t Be Fixed   Books and resources may contain affiliate links.See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Is acceptance overrated? What happens when you have to face a new year without your person in it (or without the health you used to have!)?  In this special two-part episode, we face the new year together - with special guest, historian, author, and queen of awkward conversations, Kate Bowler.    In this episode we cover:    How do you have hope for the year to come when right now maybe isn’t so great?  Acceptance, moving forward, and ferocious self-advocacy The Math of Suffering: this year, last year, and measuring love Why social bonds matter, and what happens when no one sees you We're re-releasing some of our favorite episodes from the first 3 seasons. This episode was originally recorded in 2021.   Looking for a creative exploration of grief? Check out the best selling Writing Your Grief course here. About our guest: Kate Bowler, PhD, is an associate professor of the history of Christianity in North America at Duke Divinity School. Author of the New York Times bestselling memoir, Everything Happens for a Reason (and Other Lies I’ve Loved). Her latest book, No Cure For Being Human (and Other Truths I Need to Hear), grapples with her diagnosis, her ambition, and her faith as she tries to come to terms with limitations in a culture that says anything is possible.    Find her at katebowler.com and follow her on social media @katecbowler   About Megan:  Psychotherapist Megan Devine is one of today’s leading experts on grief, from life-altering losses to the everyday grief that we don’t call grief. Get the best-selling book on grief in over a decade, It’s Ok that You’re Not OK, wherever you get books. Find Megan @refugeingrief   Additional resources: Read Kate Bowler’s memoir Everything Happens for a Reason (and Other Lies I’ve Loved)   Read Kate’s latest book No Cure For Being Human (and Other Truths I Need to Hear)   Want to talk with Megan directly? Join our patreon community for live monthly Q&A grief clinics: your questions, answered. Want to speak to her privately? Apply for a 1:1 grief consultation here.    Check out Megan’s best-selling books - It’s OK That You're Not OK and How to Carry What Can’t Be Fixed   Books and resources may contain affiliate links.See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

My dad used to read ‘‘Twas the Night Before Christmas” every Christmas Eve when I was a kid, after dinner and before we opened our Christmas pjs.    So many of you are missing your dads, or grandparents, or the father of your kids. This year, I asked my dad to record the Christmas Eve classic for the show. I wanted you to have a stand-in grandpa, in case you were missing one of your own.    From my family to yours, may you have the best holiday season available to you.  (‘Twas the Night Before Christmas by Clement Clarke Moore was first published in 1823) Looking for a creative exploration of grief? Check out the best selling Writing Your Grief course here.   Follow our show on Instagram, Facebook, Twitter, and TikTok @refugeingrief and @itsokpod on TikTok. Visit refugeingrief.com for resources & courses   About Megan:  Psychotherapist Megan Devine is one of today’s leading experts on grief, from life-altering losses to the everyday grief that we don’t call grief. Get the best-selling book on grief in over a decade, It’s Ok that You’re Not OK, wherever you get books. Find Megan @refugeingrief   Additional resources: Want to talk with Megan directly? Join our patreon community for live monthly Q&A grief clinics: your questions, answered. Want to speak to her privately? Apply for a 1:1 grief consultation here.    Check out Megan’s best-selling books - It’s OK That You're Not OK and How to Carry What Can’t Be Fixed   Books and resources may contain affiliate links.See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

The holiday season is sometimes joyful, sometimes stressful - and to be honest, it’s usually a mix of both. Between external pressures and family dynamics, we figure everyone can use some tips on making it through the season.    In this episode we cover:   How to bring up your loved one’s absence when no one else will Making a good enough holiday for your family when you’re not in the holiday spirit Tips for navigating intrusive personal questions (like “when will you have kids?” or “don’t you think it’s time you moved on?”)  Why consensus is a terrible holiday goal, but collaboration might just be the best thing possible   We're re-releasing some of our favorite episodes from the first 3 seasons.   Looking for a creative exploration of grief? Check out the best selling Writing Your Grief course here.   Follow our show on Instagram, Facebook, Twitter, and TikTok @refugeingrief and @itsokpod on TikTok. Visit refugeingrief.com for resources & courses   About Megan:  Psychotherapist Megan Devine is one of today’s leading experts on grief, from life-altering losses to the everyday grief that we don’t call grief. Get the best-selling book on grief in over a decade, It’s Ok that You’re Not OK, wherever you get books. Find Megan @refugeingrief   Additional resources: Want to talk with Megan directly? Join our patreon community for live monthly Q&A grief clinics: your questions, answered. Want to speak to her privately? Apply for a 1:1 grief consultation here.    Check out Megan’s best-selling books - It’s OK That You're Not OK and How to Carry What Can’t Be Fixed   Books and resources may contain affiliate links.See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

What if there’s nothing to fix? What if you could just, you know, be yourself - whatever that looks like today?  When I told people that this week’s guest was none other than adrienne maree brown - the excitement level was off the charts. adrienne maree brown is the author of Emergent Strategy and Pleasure Activism, among other works, and she’s instrumental in opening conversations about bodies, power, grief, and change (personal and collective).  This week, it’s all grief - and it’s all love. There is nothing to fix, and there is plenty to change.    In this episode we cover:  How self-sabotaging behaviors become addictive The freedom of being yourself (and why that pisses other people off) How can you make this day worthy of your grief?  Why humor sometimes fits “the shape of grief” and sometimes it does not Feelings are your body’s way of communicating needs   We're re-releasing some of our favorite episodes from the first 3 seasons. Looking for a creative exploration of grief? Check out the best selling Writing Your Grief course here.   Related episodes: Book bans, grief, and love: what do these have to do with social movements? Malkia Devich-Cyril Is There Any Good News on Climate Change? With Bill McKibben Coming Home to Yourself with Alex Elle   About our guest: adrienne maree brown is the author of wildly influential books including Emergent Strategy, We Will Not Cancel Us and Pleasure Activism, plus the novellas Grievers and Maroons. She is a social media meme queen, writer, podcaster, musician, and movement facilitator based in Durham, NC.    Find her at adriennemareebrown.net and on Instagram and Facebook.   About Megan:  Psychotherapist Megan Devine is one of today’s leading experts on grief, from life-altering losses to the everyday grief that we don’t call grief. Get the best-selling book on grief in over a decade, It’s Ok that You’re Not OK, wherever you get books. Find Megan @refugeingrief   Additional resources: Boundaried in Love with Prentis Hemphill and adrienne maree brown “The Pleasure Dome” by adrienne maree brown, Bitch Media   Want to talk with Megan directly? Join our patreon community for live monthly Q&A grief clinics: your questions, answered. Want to speak to her privately? Apply for a 1:1 grief consultation here.    Check out Megan’s best-selling books - It’s OK That You're Not OK and How to Carry What Can’t Be Fixed   Books and resources may contain affiliate links.See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Look, there are some things in life - a LOT of things in life - that just can’t be fixed or made better, you have to figure out how you’re going to live with them.   Sarah Ramey spent DECADES trying to find answers for why her body was falling apart. Her book, The Lady’s Handbook for Her Mysterious Illness, describes the complex, convoluted path through conventional and alternative medicines, her frustrations with being deemed a liar and hypochondriac, and the overlapping issues of misogyny, ableism, and well meaning but unhelpful support.    If you’ve ever felt othered and invisible because of an illness or disability - this episode is for you. If you’ve ever loved someone with a chronic illness, or you’re a medical provider in any capacity, this episode is 3000% for you.    And if you’re grieving some other loss or hardship, you’ll recognize so much of yourself in this conversation: that human desire to be seen, loved, and supported, exactly as you are.  In this episode we cover:     What it’s really like having a chronic, invisible illness (and if you have one, you’ll feel seen!) How truly messed up the medical system is: Sarah’s years’ long efforts to be believed by doctors, and at a minimum: not be overtly harmed while seeking care How does being in a female body shift your odds of being believed - for ANYTHING, but especially mysterious, chronic illnesses?  Sarah’s music was featured in the hit show Wednesday, on Netflix. Can you be a successful musician and have a disability?  Why hope is a complex concept when your life is constrained by illness or disability (and why hope is still REALLY important)   We're re-releasing some of our favorite episodes from the first 3 seasons.   Looking for a creative exploration of grief? Check out the best selling Writing Your Grief course here.   Follow our show on Instagram, Facebook, Twitter, and TikTok @refugeingrief and @itsokpod on TikTok. Visit refugeingrief.com for resources & courses About our guest: Sarah Ramey is a writer and musician (known as Wolf Larsen). Her work has been featured in The Paris Review, NPR, The Atlantic, The Washington Post, Ms. Magazine, and the Netflix show, Wednesday. Her book, The Lady’s Handbook for Her Mysterious Illness was a starred selection for Publisher’s Weekly, Kirkus Reviews, and Booklist. Learn more at sarahmarieramey.com and wolflarsenmusic.com. Sarah has been living with serious chronic pain and illness for seventeen years.    About Megan:  Psychotherapist Megan Devine is one of today’s leading experts on grief, from life-altering losses to the everyday grief that we don’t call grief. Get the best-selling book on grief in over a decade, It’s Ok that You’re Not OK, wherever you get books. Find Megan @refugeingrief   Additional resources: To join the next embodied writing course mentioned in the show, sign up at roottherapymaine.com   Read Sarah’s memoir: The Lady’s Handbook for Her Mysterious Illness    Listen to Sarah’s solo album: Quiet at the Kitchen Door    Want to talk with Megan directly? Join our patreon community for live monthly Q&A grief clinics: your questions, answered. Want to speak to her privately? Apply for a 1:1 grief consultation here.    Check out Megan’s best-selling books - It’s OK That You're Not OK and How to Carry What Can’t Be Fixed   Books and resources may contain affiliate links.See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Our early childhood experiences of grief - and how our family systems dealt with loss - have a huge impact on our adult behaviors and relationships.    This week, author Allyson Dinneen (@notesfromyourtherapist) joins me to discuss generational grief stories, and your number one most asked question: how does a grieving therapist (or another healthcare provider) go back to work?    We're re-releasing some of our favorite episodes from the first 3 seasons.   Looking for a creative exploration of grief? Check out the best selling Writing Your Grief course here.   About our guest: Allyson Dinneen is a marriage and family therapist, author, and the creator of the immensely popular Instagram account, Notes from Your Therapist - which is also the name of her recent book. Allyson’s work has been featured in Forbes, The New York Times, Cosmopolitan, and more. Find her on IG @notesfromyourtherapist and at allysondinneen.com.   About Megan:  Psychotherapist Megan Devine is one of today’s leading experts on grief, from life-altering losses to the everyday grief that we don’t call grief. Get the best-selling book on grief in over a decade, It’s Ok that You’re Not OK, wherever you get books. Find Megan @refugeingrief   Additional resources: Allyson’s book - Notes from Your Therapist   Megan and Allyson discuss a question from a previous episode that aired on January 3rd, 2022.   Want to talk with Megan directly? Join our patreon community for live monthly Q&A grief clinics: your questions, answered. Want to speak to her privately? Apply for a 1:1 grief consultation here.    Check out Megan’s best-selling books - It’s OK That You're Not OK and How to Carry What Can’t Be Fixed   Books and resources may contain affiliate links.See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Recently The Washington Post released graphic images, videos, and audio recordings from mass shootings, in a report called “Terror on Repeat.” Should news outlets attempt to push awareness through the use of graphic imagery? If so, do survivor families have the right to refuse to let photos of their friends or family members be released?    The answer, of course, is complicated. Complexity and nuance can be hard to find in the news and social media. Like so many things, the real answer comes down to sovereignty: the rights of the people directly involved to make choices about what actions are taken, and to what end.    In this special encore episode, Sandy Hook parent survivor Nelba Márquez-Greene and I discuss what cries of “release the photos!” means to survivors who have already had their private lives invaded, and their peoples’ images co-opted for others’ use.    That’s just part of our conversation, and all of it is timely: we discuss what it’s like to live such a public grief, and what it means to find joy - and hope - in an often violent world. Don’t miss it.    In this episode we cover:  The importance of telling your own story in the ways you want to tell it (no matter who demands a soundbite)  Supporting each other: the difference between an “inside the house” friend and an “on the porch” friend.  Why no single form of advocacy for survivors is right for all survivors  Where your money goes when you donate funds in the wake of a tragedy What to do when the next act of gun violence happens   Looking for a creative exploration of grief? Check out the best selling Writing Your Grief course here.   Follow our show on Instagram, Facebook, Twitter, and TikTok @refugeingrief and @itsokpod on TikTok. Visit refugeingrief.com for resources & courses.   About our guest:  Nelba Márquez-Greene is a licensed Marriage and Family Therapist specializing in grief, loss, trauma and their impact on individuals and systems. What her official bio doesn’t say is that her child was murdered at Sandy Hook Elementary. Find her at thisgrievinglife.com. Follow her on Instagram and Facebook @anagraceproject    About Megan:  Psychotherapist Megan Devine is one of today’s leading experts on grief, from life-altering losses to the everyday grief that we don’t call grief. Get the best-selling book on grief in over a decade, It’s Ok that You’re Not OK, wherever you get books. Find Megan @refugeingrief   Additional resources: There are many organizations fighting to end gun violence. Here are just a few:  Moms Demand Action, Change the Ref, and Brady United.    As Nelba suggested, if you want to support survivors of gun violence, find ways to support survivors in underserved communities, especially if their tragedy didn’t make the national news.    Want to talk with Megan directly? Join our patreon community for live monthly Q&A grief clinics: your questions, answered. Want to speak to her privately? Apply for a 1:1 grief consultation here.    Check out Megan’s best-selling books - It’s OK That You're Not OK and How to Carry What Can’t Be Fixed   Books and resources may contain affiliate links.See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

What if you were just about to get divorced, but your partner gets sick? Like really sick? Rebecca Woolf was just about to leave an unhappy marriage when her husband got sick and died. What followed was a crash course in performative grief, and the dismantling of one life in order to build the next.    This week on It’s OK, we cover love, sex, marriage, divorce, grief, shame, assumptions (both internal and external), and personal agency - it’s QUITE the conversation.    Sensitivity note: this episode contains the F word, and references sex.    In this episode we cover:  The conventions of marriage and grief that trap people in inauthentic versions of themselves How you can love someone AND be relieved they’re dead Why everyone has an opinion about how soon is too soon to date, have sex, or otherwise live your life after someone dies Grieving the time you lost living someone else’s life Building your own “house of hope,” according to your own desires   Looking for a creative exploration of grief? Check out the best selling Writing Your Grief course here.   Follow our show on Instagram, Facebook, Twitter, and TikTok @refugeingrief and @itsokpod on TikTok. Visit refugeingrief.com for resources & courses   About our guest: Rebecca Woolf has worked as a writer since her teens - it’s the way she understands both herself and the world. Her essays have appeared on Refinery29, HuffPost, Parenting, and more. She currently authors the bi-weekly column Sex & the Single Mom on romper.com. Her latest book is All of This: a Memoir of Death and Desire.   Find her on IG @rebeccawooolf (with three o’s) and at rebeccawoolf.com   About Megan:  Psychotherapist Megan Devine is one of today’s leading experts on grief, from life-altering losses to the everyday grief that we don’t call grief. Get the best-selling book on grief in over a decade, It’s Ok that You’re Not OK, wherever you get books. Find Megan @refugeingrief   Additional resources: Want to talk with Megan directly? Join our patreon community for live monthly Q&A grief clinics: your questions, answered. Want to speak to her privately? Apply for a 1:1 grief consultation here.    Check out Megan’s best-selling books - It’s OK That You're Not OK and How to Carry What Can’t Be Fixed   Books and resources may contain affiliate links.See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Everybody knows the stages of grief. Even if you didn’t go to grad school, I bet you can rattle them off. Thing is - those stages don’t help anyone: not the pros trying to support patients or clients, not the person trying to survive an impossible situation.    Tune in for the inside scoop on the stages of grief and what we should be doing instead, with a special shout-out to the tv shows getting grief right.     In this episode we cover: Where the stages of grief came from, and why their creator was Less Than Pleased with what happened next Whether an “innocent” mention of the stages of grief really matters in a movie or tv show (shout out to Netflix: HMU!)  What to do if your boss asks you to support your co-workers through a death in the company And much more, because I have a lot to say on these stages, apparently   We're re-releasing some of our favorite episodes from the first 3 seasons of It’s OK that You’re Not OK.   Looking for a creative exploration of grief? Check out the best selling Writing Your Grief course here.   Follow our show on Instagram, Facebook, Twitter, and TikTok @refugeingrief and @itsokpod on TikTok. Visit refugeingrief.com for resources & courses   About Megan:  Psychotherapist Megan Devine is one of today’s leading experts on grief, from life-altering losses to the everyday grief that we don’t call grief. Get the best-selling book on grief in over a decade, It’s Ok that You’re Not OK, wherever you get books. Find Megan @refugeingrief   Additional resources: Want to talk with Megan directly? Join our patreon community for live monthly Q&A grief clinics: your questions, answered. Want to speak to her privately? Apply for a 1:1 grief consultation here.    Check out Megan’s best-selling books - It’s OK That You're Not OK and How to Carry What Can’t Be Fixed   Books and resources may contain affiliate links.See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

How do we live in a world that’s at least half terrible, and that is a conservative estimate?If you recognize that line, you already know Maggie Smith. This week on the show, we’re talking about writing, marriage, divorce, and why you didn’t need whatever happened to you in order to become who you’re meant to be: as Maggie says, “trauma does not give you a “glow up.””    If you’ve ever wanted to write the story of your life - including the messy, difficult parts like divorce, miscarriage, and the loss of identity - this episode is for you.    In this episode we cover:    Why it’s ok if your story doesn’t have a happy ending (or even a happy middle) Do kids really need to learn about resilience?  Does anything remain after devastating loss?  What’s it like having your personal story out in the world for other people to talk about?  Divorce, miscarriage, and why sometimes the lemonade isn’t worth the lemons   We're re-releasing some of our favorite episodes from the first 3 seasons of It’s OK that You’re Not OK.   Looking for a creative exploration of grief? Check out the best selling Writing Your Grief course here.   Related episodes:  Kate Bowler on the difference between transactional hope and functional hope   Aubrey Hirsch on the power of storytelling    David Ambroz on “A Place Called Home”    Follow our show on Instagram, Facebook, Twitter, and TikTok @refugeingrief and @itsokpod on TikTok. Visit refugeingrief.com for resources & courses   About our guest: Maggie Smith is the award-winning author of You Could Make This Place Beautiful, Good Bones, The Well Speaks of Its Own Poison, Lamp of the Body, and the national bestsellers Goldenrod and Keep Moving: Notes on Loss, Creativity, and Change. She has been widely published, appearing in The New York Times, The New Yorker, The Paris Review, The Nation, The Best American Poetry, and more. You can follow her on social media @MaggieSmithPoet   About Megan:  Psychotherapist Megan Devine is one of today’s leading experts on grief, from life-altering losses to the everyday grief that we don’t call grief. Get the best-selling book on grief in over a decade, It’s Ok that You’re Not OK, wherever you get books. Find Megan @refugeingrief Additional resources: Get the best-selling Writing Your Grief course and join over 15,000 people who’ve explored their grief - and their identity - through writing. All the details here.   Maggie Smith’s website   Maggie’s memoir - You Could Make This Place Beautiful   “What would happen if one woman told the truth about her life? / The world would split open.” - feminist poet Muriel Rukeyser   Want to talk with Megan directly? Join our patreon community for live monthly Q&A grief clinics: your questions, answered. Want to speak to her privately? Apply for a 1:1 grief consultation here.    Check out Megan’s best-selling books - It’s OK That You're Not OK and How to Carry What Can’t Be Fixed   Books and resources may contain affiliate links.See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

“Wonder is the root of love, the lack of wonder is the root of violence.” Valarie Kaur is no stranger to violence. As a Sikh, as a woman, as a person of color, violence has shaped both her activism and her deep sense of community care. Her Revolutionary Love Project is the blueprint for organizers, activists, and really - anyone in love with the world and what it could be.    This week, the activist, and best-selling author of See No Stranger joins me to talk about love, action, and the power of wonder in the face of impossible things.    In this episode we cover:  How do you continue to work on behalf of EVERYONE for a more just and beautiful world, when some of those people cause great harm?  Getting outside of unbearable pain so you can survive Do you have to suffer in order to be of service? Being an activist for the long haul “Squad care” and what it means for activists and anyone alive in the world   Looking for a creative exploration of grief? Check out the best selling Writing Your Grief course here.   “I spent the last 20 years organizing my life around hate and I want to spend the next 20 years organizing around love. The pain of the world is the pain of the world, regardless.” - Valarie Kaur   Starting this week we’re releasing some of our favorite episodes from all three seasons of the show - some you may have missed, and some you need to listen to again and again just to absorb even more of their goodness.   Want grief support with Megan? Apply for 1:1 sessions here, or join the monthly Q&A here.  Related episodes: The Love-Filled World A Place Called Home: a conversation with child welfare advocate, David Ambroz Connection is the best medicine: with Dr. Rana Awdish   Follow our show on Instagram, Facebook, Twitter, and TikTok @refugeingrief and @itsokpod on TikTok. Visit refugeingrief.com for resources & courses About our guest:  Valarie Kaur is a renowned civil rights leader, lawyer, award-winning filmmaker, educator, author of the #1 LA Times Bestseller See No Stranger: A Memoir and Manifesto of Revolutionary Love, and founder of the Revolutionary Love Project. A daughter of Punjabi Sikh farmers in California, her work has ignited a national movement to reclaim love as a force for justice. Find her on IG @valariekaur.   About Megan:  Psychotherapist Megan Devine is one of today’s leading experts on grief, from life-altering losses to the everyday grief that we don’t call grief. Get the best-selling book on grief in over a decade, It’s Ok that You’re Not OK, wherever you get books. Find Megan @refugeingrief   Additional resources: Valarie Kaur’s website The Revolutionary Love Learning Hub   Want to talk with Megan directly? Join our patreon community for live monthly Q&A grief clinics: your questions, answered. Want to speak to her privately? Apply for a 1:1 grief consultation here.    Check out Megan’s best-selling books - It’s OK That You're Not OK and How to Carry What Can’t Be Fixed   Books and resources may contain affiliate links.See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Being fabulous can save your life.   The Old Gays are a social media sensation: flamboyant outfits, lip synched dance parties, and risque theatrics you might not expect of men in their 70s and 80s.    A lot of their media attention focuses on the joy they bring to all of us. But in their new book, The Old Gays’ Guide to the Good Life, they share a deeper story. This week on It’s OK, Bill, Bob, Mick, and Jessay talk about the missing generation of gay elders, and how being “discovered” late in life saved them.    In this episode we cover:    Finding beauty inside immense suffering Why is it so hard to talk about devastating collective events - like AIDS and COVID - once the initial danger is over? The role of luck in surviving when so many did not Learning to love yourself first - at any age Chosen family and the power of being truly seen for who you are - in good times and bad Looking for a creative exploration of grief? Check out the best selling Writing Your Grief course here.   Related episode:  What’s It All For? Loss and Meaning In Midlife with Chip Conley Follow our show on Instagram, Facebook, Twitter, and TikTok @refugeingrief and @itsokpod on TikTok. Visit refugeingrief.com for resources & courses About our guests: The Old Gays are best friends Mick Peterson, Bill Lyons, Robert Reeves, and Jessay Martin. Flamboyant social media celebrities - @oldgays - they’ve also become educators, teaching people about the strides that have been made over the last five decades in the LGBTQIA+ community. Get their new tell-all group memoir, The Old Gays Guide to the Good Life: Lessons Learned about Love and Death, Sex and Sin, and Saving the Best for Last Find them on IG at @theoldgays and on TikTok at @oldgays.   About Megan:  Psychotherapist Megan Devine is one of today’s leading experts on grief, from life-altering losses to the everyday grief that we don’t call grief. Get the best-selling book on grief in over a decade, It’s Ok that You’re Not OK, wherever you get books. Find Megan @refugeingrief   Additional resources: The San Francisco AIDS Foundation and UCSF house a lot of queer history related to the AIDS epidemic.    National AIDS Memorial    Want to talk with Megan directly? Join our patreon community for live monthly Q&A grief clinics: your questions, answered. Want to speak to her privately? Apply for a 1:1 grief consultation here.    Check out Megan’s best-selling books - It’s OK That You're Not OK and How to Carry What Can’t Be Fixed    Books and resources may contain affiliate links.See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

The scene is 1990’s New York City. Young David Ambroz and his two siblings are homeless, sleeping in bus shelters and bathing in public restrooms, under the care of his mentally ill mother. The child he was is still evident in the person he grew up to be: a nationally recognized expert on child welfare, and a staunch supporter of the foster care system. This week on It’s OK that You’re Not OK, we discuss both the horror and the joy of his childhood, landing on a vision of hope for the future that everyone (yes, you!) can help bring into fruition.    Sensitivity note: this episode explores the realities of being a homeless child, including brief examples of cruelty and non-graphic mention of sexual assault.    In this episode we cover:    The terrifying, liberating power of putting your personal story out into the world for everyone to see “Occasional angels” and how they helped young David survive the cruelty of his upbringing The intersections of mental illness, homelessness, and poverty  Beyond fostering: how anyone can take action to create the kind of world where kids are safe and loved and cared for   Looking for a creative exploration of grief? Check out the best selling Writing Your Grief course here.   Follow our show on Instagram, Facebook, Twitter, and TikTok @refugeingrief and @itsokpod on TikTok. Visit refugeingrief.com for resources & courses   About our guest: David Ambroz is a national poverty and child welfare expert and advocate. He currently serves as the Head of Community Engagement (West) for Amazon, coordinating with non-profits and community leaders for social good. David’s memoir, A Place Called Home, is a heart-wrenching yet inspiring story, depicting childhood poverty and homelessness as it is experienced by so many young people. Find him at davidambroz.com, on IG @hjdambroz, and on LinkedIn.   About Megan:  Psychotherapist Megan Devine is one of today’s leading experts on grief, from life-altering losses to the everyday grief that we don’t call grief. Get the best-selling book on grief in over a decade, It’s Ok that You’re Not OK, wherever you get books. Find Megan @refugeingrief   Additional resources: Just talking about foster care can help foster care. Check out FosterMore, the foundation David co-founded with his sister, Jennifer Perry.    Want to talk with Megan directly? Join our patreon community for live monthly Q&A grief clinics: your questions, answered. Want to speak to her privately? Apply for a 1:1 grief consultation here.    Books and resources may contain affiliate links.See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Lots of smart, high achieving people learned to greet pain with stoicism: by being mature and responsible, even as kids.    But what happens when you can’t maintain the facade of having your sh*t entirely together? Do you ever get to be less than Super Human?    In this episode we cover:    Perfectionism as a coping mechanism for all kinds of emotional wounds Is distraction bad for you?  When the worst has already happened, how do you control your anxiety?  Is there any good way to tell kids that someone they love is dying?  Working within systems where vulnerability is punished (looking at you, medicine & law) How medical aid in dying has changed over the years   Looking for a creative exploration of grief? Check out the best selling Writing Your Grief course here.   “I live with a constant fear of liking anyone or anything too much lest I lose it.” - Laurel Braitman Related episodes: Connection Is the Best Medicine: with Dr. Rana Awdish   Elise Loehnen: The 7 Deadly Sins and the Crown of Sadness   Follow our show on Instagram, Facebook, Twitter, and TikTok @refugeingrief and @itsokpod on TikTok. Visit refugeingrief.com for resources & courses About our guest: Laurel Braitman is a New York Times bestselling author - her new book, What Looks Like Bravery: An Epic Journey Through Loss to Love, is out now. She’s the founder of Writing Medicine, a global community of writing healthcare professionals, and the Director of Writing and Storytelling at the Medical Humanities and the Arts Program at the Stanford University School of Medicine. Find her at laurelbraitman.com and on IG @laurel_braitman. About Megan:  Psychotherapist Megan Devine is one of today’s leading experts on grief, from life-altering losses to the everyday grief that we don’t call grief. Get the best-selling book on grief in over a decade, It’s Ok that You’re Not OK, wherever you get books. Find Megan @refugeingrief   Additional resources: Writing Medicine - Laurel Braitman’s global writing community for healthcare workers   Want to talk with Megan directly? Join our patreon community for live monthly Q&A grief clinics: your questions, answered. Want to speak to her privately? Apply for a 1:1 grief consultation here.    Books and resources may contain affiliate links.See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Dementia means losing your person over and over again.    Margo Timmins and her siblings watched their father lose pieces of himself for years. They processed all that loss the way they always have: through music. The Cowboy Junkies vocalist joins us this week to talk about love, memory, and the ferocious beauty of turning towards what hurts.    *not sure who the Cowboy Junkies are? Google “cowboy junkies sweet jane” - I bet you’ll instantly recognize her voice.    In this episode we cover:    The endless “interpretation” of music - each song means something completely different to the writer and the vocalist and the audience  Why helping someone not be scared of dying isn’t the goal  Everybody's hell is the correct hell for them, and everyone’s hell is valid. (huh?)  How a neutral, logical approach to emotions helps you navigate truly impossible things (sometimes)   Looking for a creative exploration of grief? Check out the best selling Writing Your Grief course here. “Beauty contains death and suffering and outcomes you did not want.” - Margo Timmins Related episodes: The Love-Filled World   The Grief of Getting What You Want: with Chase Jarvis   Follow our show on Instagram, Facebook, Twitter, and TikTok @refugeingrief and @itsokpod on TikTok. Visit refugeingrief.com for resources & courses About our guest: Margo Timmins is the lead vocalist of the Cowboy Junkies, an iconic Canadian alternative country/blues/folk rock band. Find their new album, Such Ferocious Beauty, wherever you get your music. And get into their oldies, too.    About Megan:  Psychotherapist Megan Devine is one of today’s leading experts on grief, from life-altering losses to the everyday grief that we don’t call grief. Get the best-selling book on grief in over a decade, It’s Ok that You’re Not OK, wherever you get books. Find Megan @refugeingrief   Additional resources: For dementia support, we love Dr. Natali Edmonds (@dementia_careblazers)   Want to talk with Megan directly? Join our patreon community for live monthly Q&A grief clinics: your questions, answered. Want to speak to her privately? Apply for a 1:1 grief consultation here.    Books and resources may contain affiliate links.See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

We fight hard for the things we believe in. But HOW we fight for those things causes more damage than we realize.    Jameela Jamil is a lightning rod for criticism, but it’s not just how people treat her that she’s concerned about.   “The most punk thing I can do is move towards love and unity.” - Jameela Jamil   In this episode we cover:    Our odd habit of dehumanizing each other in the name of “progress” Do we believe, fundamentally, that human beings are allowed to change and grow?  What kids learn when we attack each other on social media (or in the news) Why vengeance - aka: cancel culture - isn’t going to help us get the world we want Why you should try to make more mistakes   Looking for a creative exploration of grief? Check out the best selling Writing Your Grief course here. “Most of our behavior on all political sides is coming from trauma and fear - it's not all just ignorance. We have to listen for that pain if we’re going to be effective.” - Jameela Jamil   Related episodes: Book Bans, Grief, and Love: What Do These Have to Do With Social Movements? with Malkia Devich-Cyril   Why Do We Celebrate Trauma (aka: Resilience)? with Dr. Gabor Maté   Follow our show on Instagram, Facebook, Twitter, and TikTok @refugeingrief and @itsokpod on TikTok. Visit refugeingrief.com for resources & courses About our guest: Jameela Jamil is an actress, advocate, and podcast host. You’ve seen her in The Good Place, She-Hulk: Attorney at Law, and Legendary, and all over social media commenting on the odd things we do to ourselves and each other. Follow her on IG @jameelajamil, and listen to her podcast I Weigh.   About Megan:  Psychotherapist Megan Devine is one of today’s leading experts on grief, from life-altering losses to the everyday grief that we don’t call grief. Get the best-selling book on grief in over a decade, It’s Ok that You’re Not OK, wherever you get books. Find Megan @refugeingrief   Additional resources: Want to talk with Megan directly? Join our patreon community for live monthly Q&A grief clinics: your questions, answered. Want to speak to her privately? Apply for a 1:1 grief consultation here.    Check out Megan’s best-selling books - It’s OK That You're Not OK and How to Carry What Can’t Be Fixed   Books and resources may contain affiliate links.See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Did anyone teach you that understanding your grief is the key to being (or becoming) a healthy human being? Probably not.    In this expansive episode, Megan speaks with world-renowned author and physician Gabor Maté about the role of trauma and grief in our personal lives and in society at large. Dr. Gabor Maté on grief, this week on It’s OK that You’re Not OK, the podcast.   In this episode we cover:    What is “personal agency” and why does losing personal agency create disease?  Why calling grief a disorder has social, relational and political ramifications How do elephants grieve? Is it really so different from humans?  Women as the emotional shock absorbers for the rest of the world Why we often ignore other peoples’ pain to make ourselves comfortable Does taking pain seriously make you more hopeful?  Dr. Gabor Maté’s conversation with Prince Harry (!)    Follow our show on Instagram, Facebook, Twitter, and TikTok @refugeingrief and @itsokpod on TikTok. Visit refugeingrief.com for resources & courses   About the guest: Dr. Gabor Maté is a renowned speaker and author, with expertise in trauma, stress, addiction, and child development. He’s the NYT best-selling author of The Myth of Normal, the award-winning In the Realm of Hungry Ghosts, and many other books. Find him at drgabormate.com About Megan:  Psychotherapist Megan Devine is one of today’s leading experts on grief, from life-altering losses to the everyday grief that we don’t call grief. The best-selling book on grief in over a decade, Megan’s It’s Ok that You’re Not OK, is a global phenomenon that has been translated into more than 25 languages. Her animations and explainers have garnered over 75 million views and are used in training programs around the world. Find her @refugeingrief Additional resources: Check out Megan’s best-selling books - It’s OK That You're Not OK and How to Carry What Can’t Be Fixed    Books and research mentioned in this episode  The Myth of Normal by Gabor Maté Scattered Minds by Gabor Maté The Wisdom of Trauma - documentary exploring Gabor Maté’s work to understand the connection between illness, addiction, trauma, and society.   Jaak Panksepp researched connections between human emotion processing and other mammals Hold Onto Your Kids by Gordon Neufeld & Gabor Maté Research on early trauma in elephants The Washington Post article about Megan’s loss NYT Mothers are The ‘Shock Absorbers’ Of Our Society  Article on Hillary Clinton’s traumatic family history  NYT Fighting Maternal Mortality Among Black Women   Books and resources may contain affiliate links.  See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

How do you turn the worst thing that’s ever happened to you into a comedy show?    Comedian Michael Cruz Kayne went viral for a tweet he posted on the 10th anniversary of his newborn son’s death. What followed was an outpouring of support, but also: of storytelling, with thousands of people sharing their own experiences of loss.    His one man show, Sorry for Your Loss, and his podcast, A Good Cry, have made the topic of child loss a little bit easier to approach. He’d like you to know you should ask your sad friend about the sad thing that happened to them: it’s ok to not know what to say.  In this episode we cover:    Can you make comedy about tragedy?  How telling the truth can make you less lonely Is it okay to say “sorry for your loss”?  If family members would be upset by what you say on stage, should you say it anyway? Does everything happen for a reason? (spoiler: no. but maybe yes.)    Looking for a creative exploration of grief? Check out the best selling Writing Your Grief course here. “Having half of infinity is also infinity. I got more than you could ever possibly get, and I thought I was gonna get twice that.” - Michael Cruz Kayne, on the enduring grief of his son’s death.  Related episodes: Tembi Locke - From Scratch   Can We Make This Place Beautiful? with Maggie Smith Follow our show on Instagram, Facebook, Twitter, and TikTok @refugeingrief and @itsokpod on TikTok. Visit refugeingrief.com for resources & courses About our guest: Comedian and writer Michael Cruz Kayne is the host of A Good Cry, and creator of the one man show, Sorry For Your Loss, from Audible theater. He’s an Emmy nominated, Peabody award winning writer on the Late Show with Stephen Colbert. Find him at michaelcruzkayne.com and on Instagram and Twitter @cruzkayne    About Megan:  Psychotherapist Megan Devine is one of today’s leading experts on grief, from life-altering losses to the everyday grief that we don’t call grief. The best-selling book on grief in over a decade, Megan’s It’s Ok that You’re Not OK, is a global phenomenon that has been translated into more than 25 languages. Her animations and explainers have garnered over 75 million views and are used in training programs around the world. Find her @refugeingrief   Additional resources: Want to talk with Megan directly? Join our patreon community for live monthly Q&A grief clinics: your questions, answered. Want to speak to her privately? Apply for a 1:1 grief consultation here.    Check out Megan’s best-selling books - It’s OK That You're Not OK and How to Carry What Can’t Be Fixed    Books and resources may contain affiliate links.See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Should you stop being “good”?    According to the 7 deadly sins, a “good person” needs no rest, has no appetite, has no desires, puts themselves last, and is never upset.    NYT best-selling author Elise Loehnen says we spend most of our energy denying the needs and instincts that make us human - like our needs for love, connection, success, and rest.    It’s hard to be “ok” when you’ve spent a lifetime denying your own needs. In this episode we cover:  How the 7 deadly sins morphed into a rulebook for everyday life Who does she think she is?!  Is the sin of greed keeping you from making friends? Why the most harmful thing you can do to a woman is destroy her reputation Why don't we allow men to be sad? (it’s not what you think) The grief in how much time you’ve lost trying to be good   Looking for a creative exploration of grief? Check out the best selling Writing Your Grief course here.   “You can't interrupt the status quo alone. This is communal work.” - Elise Loehnen   Related episodes: ⁣Horse Barbie & Cultivating Trans Joy with Geena Rocero   Book Bans, Grief, and Love: What Do These Have to Do With Social Movements? with Malkia Devich-Cyril   Follow our show on Instagram, Facebook, Twitter, and TikTok @refugeingrief and @itsokpod on TikTok. Visit refugeingrief.com for resources & courses About our guest: Elise Loehnen is the author of the New York Times bestseller, On Our Best Behavior: The Seven Deadly Sins and the Price Women Pay to Be Good. She’s written for The Oprah Magazine, Stylist, and The New York Times, and hosts the podcast, Pulling the Thread. Find her @eliseloehnen    About Megan: Psychotherapist Megan Devine is one of today’s leading experts on grief, from life-altering losses to the everyday grief that we don’t call grief. The best-selling book on grief in over a decade, Megan’s It’s Ok that You’re Not OK, is a global phenomenon that has been translated into more than 25 languages. Her animations and explainers have garnered over 75 million views and are used in training programs around the world. Find her @refugeingrief   Additional resources: Elise’s NYT best seller: On Our Best Behavior: The Seven Deadly Sins and the Price Women Pay to Be Good   Want to talk with Megan directly? Join our patreon community for live monthly Q&A grief clinics: your questions, answered. Want to speak to her privately? Apply for a 1:1 grief consultation here.    Check out Megan’s best-selling books - It’s OK That You're Not OK and How to Carry What Can’t Be Fixed    Books and resources may contain affiliate links.See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

When life feels hard, does “peak performance” mean anything?    Steven Kotler is known as the NYT best selling author of books like Stealing Fire and The Rise of Superman, but can the science of stretching limits apply to grief of any kind? If you look beyond the slick language of bio-hacking and extreme sports typically found in discussions on peak performance, it turns out there’s something here for all of us.  In this episode we cover:    How peak performance applies to your life - even if you’re not an athlete Why gratitude tends to work better than affirmations The scientific reason why play is good for you - and important for healthy aging The first three days of grief: what loss is like inside a hospice-based dog rescue How a change in mindset can extend your life by eight years (but that’s not the same as toxic positivity)   Related episodes:   What’s It All For? Loss and Meaning in Midlife with Chip Conley   Pet Loss and Veterinarians Who Cry: with Veterinary Oncologist and Author Dr. Renee Alsarraf   Connection is the Best Medicine: with Dr. Rana Adwish Notable quotes:  “Limits are liberating.” – Steven Kotler   “Hope is about the collaborative effort.” – Steven Kotler About our guest: Steven Kotler is one of the world’s most renowned experts on human performance. His NYT best selling books include The Art of Impossible and The Rise of Superman. He’s the co-founder of Planet Home and the Executive Director of the Flow Research Collective. Steven’s work has been nominated for two Pulitzer Prizes, and appears in over 100 publications, including the Wall Street Journal, TIME, and the Harvard Business Review. His latest book, Gnar Country: Growing Old, Staying Rad, details the application of peak performance tenets on an aging body. Find him at stevenkotler.com  About Megan:  Psychotherapist and bestselling author Megan Devine is recognized as one of today’s most insightful and original voices on grief, from life-altering losses to the everyday grief that we don’t call grief. She helms a consulting practice in Los Angeles and serves as an organizational consultant for the healthcare and human resources industries.    The best-selling book on grief in over a decade, Megan’s It’s Ok that You’re Not OK, is a global phenomenon that has been translated into more than 25 languages. Her celebrated animations and explainers have garnered over 75 million views and are used in training programs around the world. Additional resources: The Art of Impossible: a Peak Performance Primer    Stealing Fire: How Silicon Valley, the Navy SEALs, and Maverick Scientists Are Revolutionizing the Way We Live and Work   The Future Is Faster Than You Think by Peter H. Diamandis and Steven Kotler   The Rise of Superman: Decoding the Science of Ultimate Human Performance   A Small Furry Prayer: Dog Rescue and the Meaning of Life   Rancho de Chihuahua - Joy and Steven’s non-profit dog sanctuary   Want to become a more grief-informed, human-centered therapist or provider? Registration is open now for Megan Devine’s 6 month online Grief Care Professional Certificate Program. Details at this link.   Want to talk with Megan directly? Join our patreon community for an inexpensive monthly open video Q&A clinic for grieving people. Want to speak to her privately? Apply for a 1:1 grief consultation here.    Check out Megan’s best-selling books - It’s OK That You're Not OK and How to Carry What Can’t Be Fixed    Books and resources may contain affiliate links.   Get in touch: Thanks for listening to this week’s episode of It’s OK that You’re Not OK. Tune in, subscribe, leave a review, tag us on social with your thoughts, and share the show with everyone you know. Together, we can make things better, even when they can’t be made right.    Follow the show on TikTok @itsokpod and use the hashtag #ItsOkPod on all social platforms   For grief support & education, follow us at @refugeingrief on Instagram, Facebook, Twitter, and TikTok, and follow Megan on LinkedIn   For more information, including clinical training and consulting and to share your thoughts, visit us at megandevine.coSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

What if there’s nothing to fix? What if you could just, you know, be yourself - whatever that looks like today?    When I told people that this week’s guest was none other than adrienne maree brown - the excitement level was off the charts. adrienne maree brown is the author of Emergent Strategy and Pleasure Activism, among other works, and she’s instrumental in opening conversations about bodies, power, grief, and change (personal and collective).    This week, it’s all grief - and it’s all love. There is nothing to fix, and there is plenty to change.    In this episode we cover:    How self-sabotaging behaviors become addictive The freedom of being yourself (and why that pisses other people off) How can you make this day worthy of your grief?  Why humor sometimes fits “the shape of grief” and sometimes it does not Feelings are your body’s way of communicating needs What mycelium and mushrooms can teach us about death adrienne’s vision of the future - including aliens, education, poetry, and love  Want to learn the skills you need to work with grief? Join Megan’s grief intensive training right here.  Related episodes: Book bans, grief, and love: what do these have to do with social movements? Malkia Devich-Cyril   Is There Any Good News on Climate Change? With Bill McKibben   Coming Home to Yourself with Alex Elle Notable quotes: “The same Goddess of the ocean and stars and everything magnificent, is also the god of mosquitoes and bug bites and cancer.” - adrienne maree brown “People are so angry about all the ways that we're just being ourselves. And I'm like, you're only angry because you haven't given yourself permission to do it too.” -  adrienne maree brown About our guest: adrienne maree brown is the author of wildly influential books including Emergent Strategy, We Will Not Cancel Us and Pleasure Activism, plus the novellas Grievers and Maroons. She is a social media meme queen, writer, podcaster, musician, and movement facilitator based in Durham, NC.    Find her at adriennemareebrown.net, and on Instagram, Facebook, and Twitter. About Megan:  Psychotherapist and bestselling author Megan Devine is recognized as one of today’s most insightful and original voices on grief, from life-altering losses to the everyday grief that we don’t call grief. She helms a consulting practice in Los Angeles and serves as an organizational consultant for the healthcare and human resources industries.  The best-selling book on grief in over a decade, Megan’s It’s Ok that You’re Not OK, is a global phenomenon that has been translated into more than 25 languages. Her celebrated animations and explainers have garnered over 75 million views and are used in training programs around the world.   Additional resources: Boundaried in Love with Prentis Hemphill and adrienne maree brown   “The Pleasure Dome” by adrienne maree brown, Bitch Media   Want to become a more grief-informed, human-centered therapist or provider? Registration is open now for Megan Devine’s 6 month online Grief Care Professional Certificate Program. Details at this link.   Want to talk with Megan directly? Join our patreon community for an inexpensive monthly open video Q&A clinic for grieving people. Want to speak to her privately? Apply for a 1:1 grief consultation here.    Check out Megan’s best-selling books - It’s OK That You're Not OK and How to Carry What Can’t Be Fixed    Books and resources may contain affiliate links.   Get in touch: Thanks for listening to this week’s episode of It’s OK that You’re Not OK. Tune in, subscribe, leave a review, tag us on social with your thoughts, and share the show with everyone you know. Together, we can make things better, even when they can’t be made right.    Follow the show on TikTok @itsokpod and use the hashtag #ItsOkPod on all social platforms   For grief support & education, follow us at @refugeingrief on Instagram, Facebook, Twitter, and TikTok, and follow Megan on LinkedIn   For more information, including clinical training and consulting and to share your thoughts, visit us at megandevine.coSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Whether you’re interested in social justice or not, there’s no denying the grief simmering beneath the surface of daily life. It’s in our personal lives, it’s in the news, it’s in our communities. The thing is - we never really talk about it: just how much grief connects us.    If we learn to lean into that grief together, we might really create the beautiful world we all long for.    Malkia Devich-Cyril knows grief from the inside out. They grew up knowing their mom would die of her illness. They grew up immersed in the grief that is endemic to being Black in America. And they cared for their wife, comedian Alana Devich-Cyril through her death in 2018.   Malkia is a poet and media activist. They are the executive director of the MediaJustice, and a co-founder of the Media Action Grassroots Network. Their writings on media, race, justice, and grief frequently appear in national publications such as Politico, The Guardian, and The Atlantic, and in the Oscar nominated documentary film, 13th.    This episode is STUNNING. It has gifts for everyone, whether you’re grieving a personal loss, or you’re an activist of any kind.    If you ARE an activist or organizer, you need to hear what Malkia has to say about our narrative strategies, and what it really takes to make change happen.  In this episode we cover:  The difference between sorrow and grief How “feelings aren’t facts” relates to grief Is it normal to feel like you failed to keep someone alive?  Why do narrative strategists (aka: activists) need to understand grief?  Are book bans a form of grief? (spoiler: yes, but maybe not for the reasons you think) Why death is “the ultimate boundary” - and how to find hope in that Related episodes: Rage Becomes Her (and by “her” I mean US) with Soraya Chemaly Collective Grief and Communal Joy: with Baratunde Thurston Wonder in an Age of Violence: Valarie Kaur & See No Stranger For more on the shortage of compassion, see The Love Filled World: is there enough love to go around?  Notable quotes: “Sadness is a critical, crucial part of acknowledging the reality of our conditions. So I believe in sorrow. The point is not to exclude sorrow, it's to include joy. It's to include anger. It's to allow ourselves the full range of what acknowledging loss means.” - Malkia Devich-Cyril “A hurting person wants to bond with other hurting people, but they're also not gonna stay in a movement that is only dealing with pain.” - Malkia Devich-Cyril About our guest: Malkia Devich-Cyril is an activist, writer and public speaker on issues of digital rights, narrative power, Black liberation and collective grief. They are also the founding and former Executive Director of MediaJustice — a national hub boldly advancing racial justice, rights and dignity in a digital age. Their writing has appeared in publications like Politico, Motherboard, Essence Magazine, and three documentary films including the Oscar nominated 13th. Find them @culturejedi on Twitter and @radical_loss on Instagram. Read Grief Belongs in Social Movements: We Embrace it?    About Megan:  Psychotherapist and bestselling author Megan Devine is recognized as one of today’s most insightful and original voices on grief, from life-altering losses to the everyday grief that we don’t call grief. She helms a consulting practice in Los Angeles and serves as an organizational consultant for the healthcare and human resources industries.  The best-selling book on grief in over a decade, Megan’s It’s Ok that You’re Not OK, is a global phenomenon that has been translated into more than 25 languages. Her celebrated animations and explainers have garnered over 75 million views and are used in training programs around the world. Additional resources: “The Antidote to Authoritarianism” by Malkia Devich-Cyril, The Atlantic MediaJustice Media Action Grassroots Network   Want to become a more grief-informed, human-centered therapist or provider? Registration is open now for Megan Devine’s 6 month online Grief Care Professional Certificate Program. Details at this link.    Want to talk with Megan directly? Join our patreon community for live monthly Q&A sessions: your questions, answered. Want to speak to her privately? Apply for a 1:1 grief consultation here.    Check out Megan’s best-selling books - It’s OK That You're Not OK and How to Carry What Can’t Be Fixed    Books and resources may contain affiliate links. Get in touch: Thanks for listening to this week’s episode of It’s OK that You’re Not OK. Tune in, subscribe, leave a review, tag us on social with your thoughts, and share the show with everyone you know. Together, we can make things better, even when they can’t be made right.    Follow the show on TikTok @itsokpod and use the hashtag #ItsOkPod on all social platforms   For grief support & education, follow us at @refugeingrief on Instagram, Facebook, Twitter, and TikTok, and follow Megan on LinkedIn   For more information, including clinical training and consulting and to share your thoughts, visit us at megandevine.coSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.