Lead & Follow

Send Fan Mail by Text!Most conversations about AI ask "how do we control it?" Sharna Fabiano asks a more useful question: how do you lead AI so it doesn't end up leading you? In this episode, she talks with Elena Filatova about the mechanics behind how AI actually generates answers — and why understanding those mechanics is what keeps a human in the lead role, instead of quietly following whatever the model produces.Elena Filatova spent seven years at Google in data infrastructure and business intelligence before going independent. She now runs BCB Code Labs, where she builds AI-driven applications and helps businesses automate with AI, and teaches AI literacy.You'll learn: How one changed word can completely change an AI's response, and the mechanism behind itWhy AI "hallucinations" aren't mistakes — they're a statistical feature, not a bug, and why that changes how much you should trust an answerA simple technique — assigning AI a "persona" — for sharper, more targeted answersWhy asking AI to "make a list" is a more useful prompt than it soundsWhere to draw the line between real human-AI collaboration and wasteful "AI slop"Episode ReferencesAttention is All You Need (2017), Google ResearchConnect with Elenawww.bcbcodelabs.com Support the show*Get a discounted coach session with Sharna with promo code PODCAST https://www.sharnafabiano.com/coaching/Order the book: Lead & Followhttps://www.amazon.com/Lead-Follow-Dance-Inspired-Teamwork/dp/1646632796/Support the Show!https://www.buzzsprout.com/1735834/support

Send Fan Mail by Text!The conventional approach to organizational development trains only a few select managers or directors. In this episode, Sharna asks Dr. Basil Read about an alternative approach taken at the Federal Deposit Insurance Corporation (FDIC), where he designed a multi-level leadership development curriculum for all employees, from top to bottom. Basil shares the impressive results of the initiative as well as key insights from his own research on the influence of Executive Assistants on decision-making.Basil is a retired US Navy Captain, Consultant and a Professor of Practice in Troy University’s PhD in global leadership program. You'll learn:How the FDIC went from the bottom to the top on employee satisfaction metricsWhy it’s essential for all employees to have a meaningful voice in the work being doneHow executive assistants influence decision-making by executives and boards through language, gatekeeping, prioritization, and emphasis.How to understand leading and following skills as a collaborative process independent of rank or title Episode References J. Basil Read, III, “Followership at the FDIC: A Case Study” https://www.emerald.com/jole/article-pdf/13/4/136/10069009/v13_i4_c14.pdfIra Chaleff, The Courageous Followerhttps://irachaleffauthor.com/Connect with Basil ReadLinkedIn - https://www.linkedin.com/in/j-basil-read-iii-ph-d-a1274b23/ Support the show*Get a discounted coach session with Sharna with promo code PODCAST https://www.sharnafabiano.com/coaching/Order the book: Lead & Followhttps://www.amazon.com/Lead-Follow-Dance-Inspired-Teamwork/dp/1646632796/Support the Show!https://www.buzzsprout.com/1735834/support

Send Fan Mail by Text!Dr. Robert Kelley shares his current thinking on citizen-level followership in an environment of authoritarian politics, as well as a few observations of how both business teams and community groups are moving beyond leader-follower structures to get things done.Robert Kelley is a Distinguished Service Professor of Management at the Tepper School of Business at Carnegie Mellon University. He pioneered the concept of "Followership" in his best-selling book The Power of Followership and his Harvard Business Review article "In Praise of Followers" (a top 25 best-selling reprint for HBR) which changed the prevailing view of leadership. Another one of Robert’s books, How to Be a Star at Work, was honored as one of "The 100 Best Business Books of All Time" and the #1 career book by the New York Daily News. As President of CEO Consulting LLC, Dr. Kelley helps national and international clients, like AT&T and Bosch, and consults with government officials and executives across the globe from the USA to China to the EU. “When we think as followers, is our major responsibility to be a guardrail, to help keep the leader from making mistakes, or is our job to enable the leader to do whatever the leader wants to do?” “Maybe leadership has run its course in terms of a societal institution.”“I think we’re testing out new models of how humans get things done together.” Episode ReferencesStrongmen, Ruth Ben-Ghiat Connect with Robert Kelleywww.kelleyideas.comCarnegie Mellon University Support the show*Get a discounted coach session with Sharna with promo code PODCAST https://www.sharnafabiano.com/coaching/Order the book: Lead & Followhttps://www.amazon.com/Lead-Follow-Dance-Inspired-Teamwork/dp/1646632796/Support the Show!https://www.buzzsprout.com/1735834/support

Send Fan Mail by Text!We usually hear that psychological safety as something leaders create for their teams. In this episode, Sharna explores new research with Dr. Kinsey Hansen that demonstrates something different–that every member of a team has a part in establishing and maintaining it. The co-creation of psychological safety happens in everyday interactions among all team members, not only the formal leader, and shapes the culture of an organization. Kinsey is an Associate Professor at Angelo State University, where she serves as Program Coordinator for the Master of Arts in Administrative Leadership and teaches in the Student Development and Leadership program. She is part of the team that designed and launched ASU's Doctorate of Education in Transformative Leadership and now serves as a dissertation chair.You'll learn:Why psychological safety is a shared responsibility, not just a leader’s taskHow every person influences whether others feel free to share their perspective, make mistakes, and challenge established ideasPractical ways to create more openness, trust, and collaboration right nowEpisode ReferencesAmy Edmondson, The Fearless OrganizationAmy Edmondson, TeamingGlobal Followership ConferenceConnect with Kinsey Hansen Angelo State University Support the show*Get a discounted coach session with Sharna with promo code PODCAST https://www.sharnafabiano.com/coaching/Order the book: Lead & Followhttps://www.amazon.com/Lead-Follow-Dance-Inspired-Teamwork/dp/1646632796/Support the Show!https://www.buzzsprout.com/1735834/support

Send Fan Mail by Text!Otto Henfling brings a distinctive lead–follow lens to the board–CEO relationship, helping boards govern well and CEOs both lead decisively and follow faithfully in service of mission. He is a consultant and governance advisor in Australia with more than 20 years’ experience in the for-purpose sector, including 15 years as a CEO. He also has over 20 years of board experience, including a substantial period as Chair. He works extensively with boards and CEOs on governance, role clarity, risk, and strategic alignment. Otto is currently completing a PhD exploring trust and followership in human services organisations, examining how leaders and followers sustain common purpose in complex environments. Episode ReferencesChristian Monö, Why We FollowS2 E21: Natural Followership - Chris MonöS4 E4: Collaborationship is our Superpower - Chris MonöJoseph Rost, Leadership for the Twenty-First CenturyGlobal Followership Conferenceswww.globalfollowership.comConnect with Otto Henfling Trusted Leadership Consulting: trustedleadership.com.au Linked In: www.linkedin.com/in/ottohenfling/ Support the show*Get a discounted coach session with Sharna with promo code PODCAST https://www.sharnafabiano.com/coaching/Order the book: Lead & Followhttps://www.amazon.com/Lead-Follow-Dance-Inspired-Teamwork/dp/1646632796/Support the Show!https://www.buzzsprout.com/1735834/support

Send Fan Mail by Text!This is a bonus episode of The Tango Waits For You, a 3-part audio documentary series that tells the story of the first year of building a brand-new tango community in Long Beach, California. It’s both my story, of losing a dream and finding it again, and it’s also a story of dozens of people coming together by chance in a way that feels like it was truly meant to be. It’s a story full of friendship, connection, trust, and discovery, all the things we seek together on the dance floor. Being together in person is so important right now. Whether you dance tango or not, I hope you enjoy these episodes.Episode 4: Night of Spirits -  LB Tango hosts its first ritual milonga for the greater LA tango community, in celebration of Dia de los Muertos.Episode References“Tar Liom Siar,” written and performed by Moya Brennan, Lynne Earls, and Cormac de Barra. Produced and recorded by Lynne Earls, from the album Timeless. Long Beach Tangohttps://www.sharnafabiano.com/tangoAltar Milonga (Photos by Andrei Andreev) https://www.sharnafabiano.com/altar-milongaElena's Elixirshttps://elenaselixirs.com/Altar Society Brewing & Coffee Co.https://altarsocietybrewco.com/Mike Cokley, Altar Society General [email protected] of the past (by Elena's Elixers)Ilegal Joven Mezcal • Largo Bay Coquito Liqueur • Cacao Liqueur • Fresh Lime Juice • Ancho Reyes Chile Liqueur • Egg White • Aztec Cacao BittersGarnished with fresh nutmeg and floating marigoldFrom the high deserts of Oaxaca to the sun-warmed shores of the Caribbean, this cocktail traces an invisible thread through the Americas—where every region honors those who came before. In Mexico, marigolds (cempasúchitl) carpet the paths for Día de los Muertos. Guatemala flies giant barriletes for Día de Todos Los Santos. Bolivia shapes bread into guaguas de pan for Día de Todos los Difuntos. Peru, Ecuador, El Salvador—each has its own name, its own ritual, yet all share the same November vigil.This drink brings together ingredients with no obvious reason to meet, yet they dance in surprising harmony.Un Abrazo Final (by Elena's Elixers)Tequila Reposado • Malbec • Fresh Lime Juice • Grenadine • Araceli Marigold Liqueur • Fernet-BrancaSea salt rim, finished with a spritz of rose and marigold for fragranceOn Día de los Muertos, the veil between worlds grows thin. The living and the dead draw close—not in sorrow, but in celebration, in one final dance of remembrance. This cocktail honors that tender moment when memory becomes presence, when those we've lost feel near enough to touch.Salt crystallizes like tears along the rim. Fernet-Branca whispers bitter truths of departure. Grenadine holds the sweetness of stolen moments, while Malbec bleeds with the complexity of love and loss. Tequila and marigold become golden offerings, guiding souls homeward, while rose and marigold scent lingers at the threshold between worlds.Support the show*Get a discounted coach session with Sharna with promo code PODCAST https://www.sharnafabiano.com/coaching/Order the book: Lead & Followhttps://www.amazon.com/Lead-Follow-Dance-Inspired-Teamwork/dp/1646632796/Support the Show!https://www.buzzsprout.com/1735834/support

Send Fan Mail by Text!This is a reverse interview with my coaching colleague and former teacher Amy Lombardo, originally recorded for Amy’s podcast, Human Not Hacked.  Through the lens of dance, art, and embodied practice, this conversation challenges one of our culture’s most persistent illusions: that power means control, and that growth requires constant self-improvement. In this soulful conversation, Sharna and Amy unpack what happens when we stop trying to master ourselves and instead learn to move with life, not against it.Together, they explore how the anti-self-help philosophy—the heart of Human Not Hacked—intersects with Sharna’s groundbreaking work on leadership and followership. From the dance floor to the boardroom, they talk about what it means to lead with presence, to follow with awareness, and to allow space for the unexpected. They also dive into how control shows up somatically: in the body, in relationships, and in the subtle ways we tighten around our desire to “get it right.”Sharna shares her lived experience of unlearning the toxic self-help conditioning that tells us we must be endlessly optimized, productive, and emotionally contained. She speaks candidly about the courage it takes to unhook from those narratives, to honor our imperfections, and to build a new relationship with power—one rooted in responsiveness, humility, and connection.Sharna also reflects on her experience in the Brilliance Coaching Academy, discussing how the training helped her shed the “shoulds” of performance-based leadership and reconnect to her authentic voice as a coach and teacher.About AmyAmy Lombardo is the founder of the Brilliance Coaching Academy and author of the award-winning book Brilliance. With more than 25 years of experience as a coach, leadership mentor, and yoga teacher, Amy weaves together somatic practices, deep listening, and inclusive leadership tools to guide people into authentic transformation. Her work is rooted in the belief that each of us has an inner brilliance waiting to be expressed—and that when we nurture it, we change not only our own lives but the world around us. Amy Lombardohttps://amylombardo.com/Brilliance Coaching Academyhttps://coach-brilliance.com/Human, Not Hacked: The Anti-Self Help Podcasthttps://www.iheart.com/podcast/269-human-not-hacked-the-anti-297892497/ Support the show*Get a discounted coach session with Sharna with promo code PODCAST https://www.sharnafabiano.com/coaching/Order the book: Lead & Followhttps://www.amazon.com/Lead-Follow-Dance-Inspired-Teamwork/dp/1646632796/Support the Show!https://www.buzzsprout.com/1735834/support

Send Fan Mail by Text!The Tango Waits For You is a 3-part documentary series that tells the story of the first year of building a brand-new tango community in Long Beach, California. It’s both my story, of losing a dream and finding it again, and it’s also a story of dozens of people coming together by chance in a way that feels like it was truly meant to be. It’s a story full of friendship, connection, trust, and discovery, all the things we seek together on the dance floor. Being together in person is so important right now. Whether you dance tango or not, I hope you enjoy these episodes.Episode 3: Community -  We start teaching two simultaneous classes, add a monthly práctica, and the group dynamic takes on a life of its own. Episode ReferencesAltar Milonga: Night of Spirits - Monday, Nov. 3https://www.sharnafabiano.com/tangoTango Resources & LB Tango Schedulehttps://www.sharnafabiano.com/tangoAltar Society Brewing & Coffee Co.https://altarsocietybrewco.com/Mike Cokley, Altar Society General [email protected] the show*Get a discounted coach session with Sharna with promo code PODCAST https://www.sharnafabiano.com/coaching/Order the book: Lead & Followhttps://www.amazon.com/Lead-Follow-Dance-Inspired-Teamwork/dp/1646632796/Support the Show!https://www.buzzsprout.com/1735834/support

Send Fan Mail by Text!The Tango Waits For You is a 3-part documentary series that tells the story of the first year of building a brand-new tango community in Long Beach, California. It’s both my story, of losing a dream and finding it again, and it’s also a story of dozens of people coming together by chance in a way that feels like it was truly meant to be. It’s a story full of friendship, connection, trust, and discovery, all the things we seek together on the dance floor. Being together in person is so important right now. Whether you dance tango or not, I hope you enjoy these episodes.Episode 2: Altar Society -  Partnership with a local venue provides an opportunity for Long Beach Tango to expand and grow. Episode ReferencesTango Resources & LB Tango Schedulehttps://www.sharnafabiano.com/tangoAltar Society Brewing & Coffee Co.https://altarsocietybrewco.com/Mike Cokley, Altar Society General [email protected] the show*Get a discounted coach session with Sharna with promo code PODCAST https://www.sharnafabiano.com/coaching/Order the book: Lead & Followhttps://www.amazon.com/Lead-Follow-Dance-Inspired-Teamwork/dp/1646632796/Support the Show!https://www.buzzsprout.com/1735834/support

Send Fan Mail by Text!The Tango Waits For You is a 3-part documentary series that tells the story of the first year of building a brand-new tango community in Long Beach, California. It’s both my story, of losing a dream and finding it again, and it’s also a story of dozens of people coming together by chance in a way that feels like it was truly meant to be. It’s a story full of friendship, connection, trust, and discovery, all the things we seek together on the dance floor. Being together in person is so important right now. Whether you dance tango or not, I hope you enjoy these episodes.Episode 1: The Dream -  After being retired from tango for seven years, Sharna meets four locals at a coffee meetup who want to learn to dance. Episode ReferencesTango Resources & LB Tango Schedulehttps://www.sharnafabiano.com/tangoAltar Society Brewing & Coffee Co. https://altarsocietybrewco.com/Mike Cokley, Altar Society General [email protected] the show*Get a discounted coach session with Sharna with promo code PODCAST https://www.sharnafabiano.com/coaching/Order the book: Lead & Followhttps://www.amazon.com/Lead-Follow-Dance-Inspired-Teamwork/dp/1646632796/Support the Show!https://www.buzzsprout.com/1735834/support

Send Fan Mail by Text!In this episode, Sharna shares her own history and experience with tango as a social dance form. It’s a reverse interview with Actor and Director Dan Istrate, who has been a guest on the show twice before. They talk together about Sharna's discovery and rediscovery of tango, and about what makes tango so compelling for so many people.“There’s a weight within this dance, within this concept, that speaks for itself.”"Tango comes like a revelation in one’s life and you just know it.""There was some kind of way that this particular form was changing me on all levels and that’s what made it feel so necessary and inevitable.""You bring yourself to it and it's scary in a way but then it's so beautiful when you really connect."More with Dan IstrateS3 E3: Connected Social Conversations – Dan Istratehttps://leadfollow.buzzsprout.com/1735834/episodes/14781194-connected-social-conversations-dan-istrateS1 E15: Lead/Follow Relationships in Live Theater Performance - Dan Istratehttps://leadfollow.buzzsprout.com/1735834/episodes/9621693-lead-follow-relationships-in-live-theater-performance-dan-istrateConnect with Dan Istratewww.danistrate.com Support the show*Get a discounted coach session with Sharna with promo code PODCAST https://www.sharnafabiano.com/coaching/Order the book: Lead & Followhttps://www.amazon.com/Lead-Follow-Dance-Inspired-Teamwork/dp/1646632796/Support the Show!https://www.buzzsprout.com/1735834/support

Send Fan Mail by Text!Dr. Maike Kugler shares her research on followership as voluntariness, a specific way of understanding followership behavior. She also speaks on the need to both expand and deepen followership research to account for a wide range of cultural contexts, variations of language and meaning, and relational dynamics, in order to fully understand the phenomenon of followership in organizations and beyond. “[Followership] is not something that’s defined in a book, but it’s something that happens between people. It’s a social thing. So it really depends on the expectations that both parties have.”“Followership in one situation can be different than followership in another situation.”“Culture and context are most underrated in current followership research.”“I’d like to see articles that define what followership means in that article, a wider range of methods, more exploration of foundational understanding, and all of that in a more context and cultural sensitive mindset.” Episode References "The (In)voluntary follower," Martin Blom and Mikael Lundgren https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/abs/10.1177/1742715019888078"Following the beaten paths: a systematic literature review of followership behavior," Maike Kugler and Ruth Sims https://www.emerald.com/insight/content/doi/10.1108/jmd-10-2024-0359/full/htmlS1 E4 – Influence of Followership Behaviors on Organizational Success - Ruth Simshttps://leadfollow.buzzsprout.com/1735834/episodes/8516582-influence-of-followership-behaviors-on-organizational-success-ruth-sims S3 E6 - The 4 Tiers of Followership - Eric McDermotthttps://leadfollow.buzzsprout.com/1735834/episodes/15254928-the-4-tiers-of-followership-eric-mcdermottConnect with Maike KuglerLinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/dr-maike-kuglerUniversity profile: https://www.ehip.eu/hochschule/team/professoren/prof-dr-maike-kugler/ Support the show*Get a discounted coach session with Sharna with promo code PODCAST https://www.sharnafabiano.com/coaching/Order the book: Lead & Followhttps://www.amazon.com/Lead-Follow-Dance-Inspired-Teamwork/dp/1646632796/Support the Show!https://www.buzzsprout.com/1735834/support

Send Fan Mail by Text!Many of us feel powerless when work environments become dysfunctional.  In this episode, Sharna speaks with Dr. Karen Perham-Lippman about her research on toxic leadership in the technology industry and the ways employees respond to it. Karen explains why some people remain silent, why others adapt to survive, and why some individuals choose to challenge the status quo despite personal and professional risks. Karen serves as Senior Manager of Global Inclusion and Belonging at Otis Worldwide Corporation. She is a Certified Diversity Professional and has worked with nonprofits, state government, municipal clients, and businesses across diverse industries and sectors globally. She earned her Doctor of Philosophy (Ph.D.) in Organizational Leadership and Business Management from Eastern University.You'll learn:Why workplace cultures can unintentionally enable destructive leadershipHow “Challengers” create positive change in difficult environmentsThe role of peer support and communities of coping in maintaining individual well-beingHow organizations can reduce the conditions that allow toxic leadership to persistAbout KarenDr. Karen Perham-Lippman serves as Senior Manager of Global Inclusion and Belonging at Otis Worldwide Corporation. As a pracademic and mission-driven business strategist with nearly fifteen years of demonstrated strategic and process thinking results in diversity, equity, and inclusion (DEI), ESG, and social impact, she has worked with nonprofits, state government, municipal clients, and businesses across diverse industries and sectors globally. She currently serves as Co-President of the League of Women Voters South Hampton Roads in Virginia and was appointed to the State League’s DEI Committee. Karen is a Certified Diversity Professional and holds a certificate in designing equitable courses from the Association of College and University Educators (ACUE). She earned her Doctor of Philosophy (Ph.D.) in Organizational Leadership and Business Management from Eastern University, where she received the College of Business and Leadership's 2025 Student Service Award presented to a graduating student who has exemplified the college and doctoral program's ideals of leadership and scholarship on and off campus through significant contributions to the field. Karen’s scholarship is published with Ethics International Press, Emerald Publishing, Forbes, Merits International Journal, and SAGE Publishing. Her forthcoming book, Bridging Generations: Transformative Intergenerational Leadership and Followership, will be available from Emerald Publishing in Spring 2026. Episode ReferencesILA Global Conference in PragueConnect with KarenLinkedIn - for general connectionsResearchGate – for research updates or to collaborate Forbes Human Resources Council – for writing contributions on Forbes  Support the show*Get a discounted coach session with Sharna with promo code PODCAST https://www.sharnafabiano.com/coaching/Order the book: Lead & Followhttps://www.amazon.com/Lead-Follow-Dance-Inspired-Teamwork/dp/1646632796/Support the Show!https://www.buzzsprout.com/1735834/support

Send Fan Mail by Text!Chris Monö is an author and consultant based in Sweden known for his innovative concepts of "natural followership" and "collaborationship." He has spent nearly two decades exploring leadership and followership from a follower’s perspective, and in this episode we discuss several of the powerful ideas in his new book, Why We Follow: Natural Followership in a World Obsessed with Leadership.If you missed the first interview with Chris back in Season 2, I strongly encourage you to go back and listen to that one first, since it provides a lot of background and will make this new episode more intuitive and useful.“Most people just want a group to work, and that’s a group with a shared objective, working together to achieve a goal. When you have a group like that you don’t need someone to guide them.”“While we can try to manipulate people into obeying us, true followership is always in the hands of the followers.” “It’s the group that’s supposed to make things happen and they just use the leader as a tool to get there and I think we need more of that mindset because that’s really what a democracy is.” Episode References:Why We Follow: Natural Followership in a World Obsessed with Leadership, by Chris Monöhttps://www.amazon.com/Why-We-Follow-Followership-Leadership/dp/9198847325 S2 E21 - Natural Followership - Christian Monöhttps://leadfollow.buzzsprout.com/1735834/episodes/13838983-natural-followership-christian-mono Global Followership Conferencehttp://www.followershipconference.com Support the show*Get a discounted coach session with Sharna with promo code PODCAST https://www.sharnafabiano.com/coaching/Order the book: Lead & Followhttps://www.amazon.com/Lead-Follow-Dance-Inspired-Teamwork/dp/1646632796/Support the Show!https://www.buzzsprout.com/1735834/support

Send Fan Mail by Text!Thomas Rieser is the owner of Nou Tango, a tango studio in Berlin, Germany that just celebrated its 20-year anniversary. In this episode, he shares his perspective on how simple yet powerful tango exercises, can be shared outside the world of social dance in supportive group settings to bring healing and joy in surprising and delightful ways.Over the past 20 years of teaching and organizing, Thomas has developed a focus on combining the individual development of each student with the requirements of a group. The individual person is at the center, and at the same time he encourages an active effort of everyone involved to create a social culture. He sees this as a reflection of the core, heart and potential of tango.“[Tango] is something that touches you emotionally and at the same time you don’t really know why.”“People see something [that] they don’t know exists, which is physically, spatially, and emotionally connecting to one another and being able to move in a way that is just magical.” “I don’t think it’s magical. I just think the body can do much more than the mind allows it.”“Being in a group setting where you open yourself and be present, your body takes over, and when you let your body take over, you can grow.”  Episode References Nou Tango Studiohttps://noutango.berlin/ Tango Connects Conferencehttps://tango.connects.berlin/ S4 E1 - Leading & Following in the Tango - Veronica Toumanovahttps://leadfollow.buzzsprout.com/1735834/episodes/16416925-leading-following-in-the-tango-veronica-toumanova"Efficacy of Tango Argentino for Cancer-Associated Fatigue and Quality of Life in Breast Cancer Survivors: A Randomized Controlled Trial"https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/37296883/Connect with Thomas RieserFB: https://www.facebook.com/Thomas.RieserLinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/thomas-rieser/ Support the show*Get a discounted coach session with Sharna with promo code PODCAST https://www.sharnafabiano.com/coaching/Order the book: Lead & Followhttps://www.amazon.com/Lead-Follow-Dance-Inspired-Teamwork/dp/1646632796/Support the Show!https://www.buzzsprout.com/1735834/support

Send Fan Mail by Text!Ashton R. Cooper is an assistant professor of higher education in the School of Education at the University of Cincinnati. In this episode, he shares his research on the participation of White activists in the South in the Black-led Civil Rights Movement of the 1960s, as well as insights into the lead and follow role switching of White activists from a recent paper titled "Antiracist followership: rethinking social justice leadership in education."Ashton's research and teaching seek to disrupt educational practices that are harmful to individuals and communities, and to empower practitioners and scholars alike to imagine and work toward equitable and inclusive futures. Doing so, he infuses his coursework with lessons in leadership and followership to model reciprocal and community-oriented learning.  As a researcher, he uses historical and narrative methods to understand and explore followership as it relates to disrupting systemic oppression and building diverse justice-oriented coalitions."In the case of my study, it really positions White activists as followers of the civil rights movement.""In the study of leadership as a whole, not only do we become romanticized with leadership in general, we fall back to this idea of great men, and the notion of great men being that of those men who are forged in whiteness.""It is less about what we can do to lead the charge but instead turning to the people who are being affected and ask 'how can I be of service to you?'""Learning how to put [yourself] in other people's shoes is really important to the act of followership."Episode ReferencesAshton R. Cooper (2024) Antiracist followership: rethinking social justice leadership in education, Whiteness and Education, DOI: 10.1080/23793406.2024.2433952 Helena Liu, Redeeming Leadership: An Anti-Racist Feminist Intervention. Bristol University Press, 2021 https://bristoluniversitypress.co.uk/redeeming-leadershipRobert M. McManus and Gama Perruci, Understanding Leadership: An Arts and Humanities Perspective, Routledge, 2015https://www.amazon.com/Understanding-Leadership-arts-humanities-perspective/dp/0415728738 Say Burgin, Organizing Your Own: The White Fight for Black Power in Detroit, NYU Press, 2024https://nyupress.org/9781479814145/organizing-your-own/  Connect with Ashton CooperEmail: [email protected]: https://www.linkedin.com/in/ashton-cooper-phd-13595816/ Support the show*Get a discounted coach session with Sharna with promo code PODCAST https://www.sharnafabiano.com/coaching/Order the book: Lead & Followhttps://www.amazon.com/Lead-Follow-Dance-Inspired-Teamwork/dp/1646632796/Support the Show!https://www.buzzsprout.com/1735834/support

Send Fan Mail by Text!Tango artist Veronica Toumanova shares her insights from 20+ years of learning, dancing, and teaching tango in both roles, how tango social dance communities are evolving in Paris, Europe, and beyond, and what tango has to teach about leading and following possibilities in life and work. Veronica has been dancing tango since 2000 and actively teaching and performing since 2007. She has Russian origins, but started dancing tango while living in The Netherlands. She has worked with different partners, performing and teaching in France, Sweden, Norway, UK, Italy, The Netherlands, Cyprus, Greece, Germany, Czech Republic, Russia, Ukraine, Belarus, Switzerland, Canada and USA. Veronica is an elegant dancer with a strong personality and a refined sense of music. She has extensive knowledge of both the follower and the leader’s role and is especially known for her in-depth technique classes. She is also a popular tango blogger, her essays on tango are translated in eighteen languages and she has recently published the second volume of her “Why Tango” essay collection.“Tango puts you into a context where you have to revise this understanding [of lead and follow] and realize that it is not about command and obey but it is more about having a conversation.” “In tango, you learn that true leadership is way more about listening and understanding the other person… and following is way more about taking a deliberate decision to collaborate with your leader.” “The real question is ‘how can we remove the violent component of what we now understand as leadership?’” “I think we as a humanity have misunderstood following, because following for me is flowing. I flow intuitively with whatever the situation is creating in me as a response.”  Episode ReferencesTango Connects Conference (Organising Team: Thomas Rieser, Veronica Toumanova, Juliana Thutlwa, Almut Knauß, and Stefan Knauß)http://tango.connects.berlin/ Thinking Fast and Slow, by Daniel Kahnemanhttps://www.amazon.com/Thinking-Fast-Slow-Daniel-Kahneman/dp/0374533555Connect with VeronicaWebsite - https://verotango.com Youtube - https://www.youtube.com/@verotangoFacebook - https://www.facebook.com/veronica.toumanova Support the show*Get a discounted coach session with Sharna with promo code PODCAST https://www.sharnafabiano.com/coaching/Order the book: Lead & Followhttps://www.amazon.com/Lead-Follow-Dance-Inspired-Teamwork/dp/1646632796/Support the Show!https://www.buzzsprout.com/1735834/support

Send Fan Mail by Text!Lately, I’ve been thinking a lot about the need to get away from digital life and back to in person life, and as beautiful as it is to connect online with folks everywhere, it’s also really important to be in both the same time and the same place with others in a full body way. So in 2025 I’m planning to teach more in person tango classes. And for the podcast, I plan to bring you more interviews with tango artists sharing their wisdom on embodied leading and following.In the meantime, I thought I would read for you the Preface from my book, Lead & Follow, which tells a condensed version of my tango origin story. If you haven’t yet picked up a copy, this will give you a sense of where my perspective on leading and following comes from.  Lead & Follow: The Dance of Inspired Teamwork is available anywhere you buy books. If you’re ordering from outside the US, I recommend betterworldbooks.com – they ship to nearly every country.Support the show*Get a discounted coach session with Sharna with promo code PODCAST https://www.sharnafabiano.com/coaching/Order the book: Lead & Followhttps://www.amazon.com/Lead-Follow-Dance-Inspired-Teamwork/dp/1646632796/Support the Show!https://www.buzzsprout.com/1735834/support

Send Fan Mail by Text!Dr. Ron Riggio has a uniquely broad and deep perspective on the evolution of followership research over the past two decades. He is the Henry R. Kravis Professor of Leadership and Organizational Psychology and former Director of the Kravis Leadership Institute at Claremont McKenna College, where the very first followership conference took place back in 2006.In this episode, Ron shares his thoughts on where the followership community has been and where it is going, as well as his own current work to expand the research on followership and its relationship to leadership. Learn about his current work and collaborations including the anatomy of followership, implicit peer theory, storytelling methodologies, and more.“When we put the term leader on something in our western culture, we sort of raise it up and kind of put it on a pedestal, and that leads to the follower being downgraded, and we need to change that.”“The traditional way is to say well the leader does something… and the followers perform, and we’re saying it doesn’t really work like that… it’s a collaboration.”“By focusing on follower identity and the role of followers, people don’t default to ‘the leader knows best.’” “If I’m looking at my co-follower, and saying, this is my ideal co-follower, there may be some clues in their for what ideal follower behavior looks like.” Episode ReferencesClaremont McKenna Collegehttps://www.cmc.eduArt of Followership, by Ronald E. Riggio, Ira Chaleff, & Jean Lipman-Blumen (Eds.)https://www.amazon.com/Art-Followership-Followers-Leaders-Organizations/dp/0787996653Global Followership Conferencehttp://www.followershipconference.com Liu, Z., Riggio, R.E., Reichard, R.J., & Walker, D.O. (2022). Everyday leadership: The construct, its validation, and developmental antecedents. International Leadership Journal, 14(1), 3-35.Beenen, G., Todorova, G., Pichler, S. & Riggio, R.E. (2022). Reconceptualizing multilevel leader-follower shared outcomes. Journal of Leadership and Organizational Studies, 29(2), 289-305. https://doi.org/10.1177/15480518221094481Riggio, R.E., Lowe, K.B., & Levy, L. (2023). Why are followers neglected in leadership research.Organization Development Review, 55(3), 44-48. Riggio, R.E. (2014). Followership research: Looking back and looking forward.  Journal of Leadership Education, 13, DOI: 10.12806/V13/I4/C4  Support the show*Get a discounted coach session with Sharna with promo code PODCAST https://www.sharnafabiano.com/coaching/Order the book: Lead & Followhttps://www.amazon.com/Lead-Follow-Dance-Inspired-Teamwork/dp/1646632796/Support the Show!https://www.buzzsprout.com/1735834/support

Send Fan Mail by Text!Dr. Alain de Sales currently teaches at the Queensland University of Technology’s Graduate School of Business (GSB) in Brisbane, Australia. In this episode, he describes a recent educational project he coordinated for a group of MBA alumni, analyzing patterns of destructive leadership in the 2024 US presidential election cycle.Back in Season 1 of the podcast, I interviewed Alain on his then and still groundbreaking PhD research on how courageous followership actions can interrupt and prevent the worst outcomes of destructive leadership actions – that episode is called Courageous Followers can Stop Destructive leadership. If you haven’t already, I suggest listening to that one first, before this one. It’s a detailed discussion of Alain’s theoretical work that will make this episode's real-time case study make more sense. GSB is among 1% of business schools worldwide to have triple accreditation for excellence from the world's leading accrediting bodies. At GSB Alain teaches leadership (and followership) nationally in the Executive MBA, MBA, and Public Service Management programs along with other executive education programs. “That’s the biggest challenge - you don’t get a big flashing neon sign: ‘Hey, destructive leadership here! Warning, turn back!’ It’s more akin to that old analogy of the frog in boiling water.” “When we look at the ultimate outcomes, if we can collectively say they’re not good, we’ve got to think differently, behave differently, no matter how uncomfortable that might be.”“If we can’t agree on basic facts, we will never change the way we believe and therefore the way we behave.”“One of the ways to increase trust in government is to increase transparency.”“We need to have an award system that publicly recognizes whistleblowers and encourages people to do that.”Episode ReferencesS1 E8 – Courageous Followers can Stop Destructive Leadership - Alain de SalesQueensland University of Technology’s Graduate School of BusinessArt Padilla, Robert Hogan, Robert B. Kaiser, “The toxic triangle: Destructive leaders, susceptible followers, and conducive environments,” The Leadership Quarterly, Volume 18, Issue 3, 2007Project 2025 Presidential Transition Project, The Heritage Foundationhttps://www.project2025.org/ Join or Die - documentary filmhttps://www.joinordiefilm.com/Ira Chaleff, To Stop A Tyranthttps://www.amazon.com/Stop-Tyrant-Political-Followers-Leader/dp/1637560567/ Support the show*Get a discounted coach session with Sharna with promo code PODCAST https://www.sharnafabiano.com/coaching/Order the book: Lead & Followhttps://www.amazon.com/Lead-Follow-Dance-Inspired-Teamwork/dp/1646632796/Support the Show!https://www.buzzsprout.com/1735834/support

Send Fan Mail by Text!Increasingly, leadership is understood as a relational process rather than as an authority granted by a formal title. In this episode, Sharna speaks with Dr. Eric Kaufman about how decision-making happens in community settings. Drawing from his research and experiences with civic organizations, volunteer groups, faith communities, and educational programs, Eric explores how collaboration works when people connect through a shared purpose.Eric is a professor at Virginia Tech, where he coordinates a graduate certificate in collaborative community leadership and supports an undergraduate minor in leadership and social change.  He also has a partial appointment at Virginia Cooperative Extension, and that role has focused his attention on best practices for working with community members to guide educational programming.  You'll learn:What shared responsibility looks like in volunteer-based groupsWhy many are eager to contribute but hesitant to take on official leadership positions How asking better questions can create more inclusive decision-makingWhy strong communities require both leadership and active participationEpisode ReferencesKaufman, E. K., Kennedy, R. E., & Cletzer, D. A. (2019). Understanding the Nature of Eco‐Leadership: A Mixed Methods Study of Leadership in Community Organizations. Journal of Contemporary Water Research & Education, 167(1), 33-49. Graduate Certificate: Collaborative Community Leadership, Department of Agricultural, Leadership, and Community Education, Virginia Techhttps://www.alce.vt.edu/student-info/graduate/commleader.htmlConnect with Eric Kaufman https://www.linkedin.com/in/erickkaufman/ Support the show*Get a discounted coach session with Sharna with promo code PODCAST https://www.sharnafabiano.com/coaching/Order the book: Lead & Followhttps://www.amazon.com/Lead-Follow-Dance-Inspired-Teamwork/dp/1646632796/Support the Show!https://www.buzzsprout.com/1735834/support

Send Fan Mail by Text!Dr. Jane Bentley is a percussionist and drum circle facilitator based in Glasgow, Scotland, specializing in rhythm, improvisation, group dynamics and communication skills. She completed a Ph.D on drum circle improvisation and facilitation, highlighting the effects of group music making on human wellbeing, and revealing its fascinating leadership and followership dynamics. Jane’s work as a facilitator has broken new ground in the field of health and wellbeing, through her long-term collaborations with mental health occupational therapy staff in the UK National Health Service. She has worked with children in hospitals; in mental health care settings; in prisons, and with people with dementia. In this episode, she shares what she has discovered over the years about the power of fluid leading and following in improvised music.“The drum is a tool to deepen group relationship and understanding. “If you can just be aware enough to follow somebody and to find that meeting point that becomes a key that unlocks this door to going somewhere new and probably unexpected.” “Our educational process is to become a better follower: to become more aware of larger and larger chunks of our environment so that we can then formulate a response to it and co-construct things together.” “Its never one-way and it’s very important that that role switches over – that’s what makes the relationship.” Jane’s TEDx Talkhttps://www.youtube.com/embed/MQo-1qlKUBE  Connect with Jane Bentley https://artbeatmusic.org/https://www.linkedin.com/in/jane-bentley-a2550631/  Support the show*Get a discounted coach session with Sharna with promo code PODCAST https://www.sharnafabiano.com/coaching/Order the book: Lead & Followhttps://www.amazon.com/Lead-Follow-Dance-Inspired-Teamwork/dp/1646632796/Support the Show!https://www.buzzsprout.com/1735834/support

Send Fan Mail by Text!What does it mean to be a truly effective contributor? In this episode, Sharna speaks with Eric McDermott about his innovative 4 Tiers of Help framework—a model of learnable behaviors that immediately show you how to become genuinely more helpful to others, not by working more, but by noticing different things and making different choices. Eric developed this framework through decades of his own work in a variety of businesses, including as an equity partner in the financial services industry.By day, Eric is an equity partner at a financial services firm with more than 60,000 clients. But behind the suit, in his other company, Eric was named "Best Business Influencer of the Year" winning two Stevies (the Oscars of the business world) for his social media channels. He is also a USA Today and Amazon best-selling author, and has numerous published Forbes articles.You'll learn:Why helping others succeed is a direct way to be recognized and promotedWhat help looks like from the leading role vs from the following role How to decide what kind of help is most appropriate in the moment Episode ReferencesS2 E21 – Natural Followership with Chris Monöhttps://leadfollow.buzzsprout.com/1735834/13838983-natural-followership-christian-mono Leadership is Only Half the Equation, Forbeshttps://www.forbes.com/sites/forbesbusinesscouncil/2023/08/14/leadership-is-only-half-the-equation/ Four Tiers of Help, Forbeshttps://www.forbes.com/sites/forbesbusinesscouncil/2021/07/19/four-tiers-of-help-for-unlocking-career-and-team-success/Eric McDermott, Team Amplifiers: 8 Ways Teams Thrive in Rapid Changehttps://www.amazon.com/Team-Amplifiers-Teams-Thrive-Change-ebook/dp/B0BWXGD1P9Eric McDermott, Career Amplifiers: A Field Guide for Getting Aheadhttps://www.amazon.com/Career-Amplifiers-Field-Guide-Getting-ebook/dp/B0CLGLJK1M Connect with Eric McDermottNextpectationshttps://access.nextpectations.com/ Support the show*Get a discounted coach session with Sharna with promo code PODCAST https://www.sharnafabiano.com/coaching/Order the book: Lead & Followhttps://www.amazon.com/Lead-Follow-Dance-Inspired-Teamwork/dp/1646632796/Support the Show!https://www.buzzsprout.com/1735834/support

Send Fan Mail by Text!Paul McGachey shares his theoretical research on Ira Chaleff's Courageous Follower model plus lots of terrific examples from his own professional work demonstrating what it takes to follow courageously at the higher levels of an organization, whether that's  in the US military or in the business sector. Paul is a scholar-practitioner with 18 years of experience in the United States military and is currently pursuing a PhD in Education and Human Resources at Colorado State University. His primary research interests are followership and scenario planning, a tool that uses multiple future scenarios to drive strategic action and decision-making.  “The follower has to see themselves as an active participant in the organization.”“If you’re in a relationship with a leader who does not want your feedback, you need to resist the urge to take a passive role, just because that’s how the leader or the organization sees you.”“You need to build that leader-follower relationship and that’s going to be built on trust and results over time.” “As you build a follower role orientation within yourself and within your organization, you’re going to gain more influence over your leader.” “Scenario planning has been very successful at changing mental models.”“Regardless of whether you have input in the vision, you have direct action in the implementation and culture of the organization.” Episode References Robert Kelley, Power of Followership - https://www.amazon.com/Power-Followership-Robert-Kelley/dp/0385413068Robert Kelley, “In Praise of Followers,” Harvard Business Review - https://hbr.org/1988/11/in-praise-of-followersIra Chaleff, The Courageous Follower - https://www.amazon.com/Courageous-Follower-Standing-Our-Leaders/dp/1605092738 Connect with Paul McGacheyLinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/paulmcgachey/Email: [email protected] Support the show*Get a discounted coach session with Sharna with promo code PODCAST https://www.sharnafabiano.com/coaching/Order the book: Lead & Followhttps://www.amazon.com/Lead-Follow-Dance-Inspired-Teamwork/dp/1646632796/Support the Show!https://www.buzzsprout.com/1735834/support

Send Fan Mail by Text!Your lead and follow coaching tip for today is Focus your email.I recently received an auto-responder email message from a colleague that read, and I’m not kidding about this, QUOTE “I’m out of the office this week, and your message will be deleted. If you’d like a response, please re-send your message after next Monday when I return.” UNQUOTEYour message will be deleted. This is probably the most extreme example I’ve seen of email management, but I share it to illustrate the point. We are all drowning in an excessive flood of email. You probably receive hundreds of messages a week, maybe hundreds a day, and there’s no way you can read them all. In fact, in addition to the latest spam blockers and content filters, there is still a certain amount of time and effort required to figure out what email you need to read, before you actually read any of it. So, knowing this situation, you can make it easier for your coworkers to read and respond to your messages with a couple of guidelines. These won’t work in all situations, but they will cover you for the majority of everyday work exchanges.First, whenever possible, follow the rule of one topic per message. This makes it easy for people to organize your message by category and especially by time sensitivity. If you ask someone for two pieces of information, one of which you need today and the other of which you need next week, that makes your message harder to organize and you’ll probably get either one or neither of your questions answered. If you send them separately, not only is each one shorter, which is almost always better, but the person will have an easier time mentally dropping them into the appropriate buckets, and responding to them in the appropriate time-frame.Second, if you do have several related questions pertaining to the same project or the same deadline, use a numbered list so that your reader can more quickly and easily take in what you are asking. You’ll often get an itemized response in return, following your original list, which also makes it easier for you.Third, whenever possible, keep your messages to five sentences or less, stating your purpose, your request, and any time constraints.  If you have additional relevant reference material, attach them or list them below your main message, separated by an asterisk or some other obvious character. Too much text is overwhelming, and people will. not. read it, especially if it’s not necessary. There is definitely a skill to writing concisely, and it’s most definitely a valuable one that you want to have no matter what your work environment. I promise that once you start restricting yourself to five sentences, it will get easier and easier.And finally, fourth, being crisp and focused does not mean being rude. It’s still important to be polite and positive even while you avoid unnecessary explanations or “filler” language. Remember to use the person’s name at the top of your message, and include a thank you at the end. Here’s a quick tip within a tip: include Thank you, or Thanks in your automatic signature.Try this out, experiment, and let me know how it goes!Support the show*Get a discounted coach session with Sharna with promo code PODCAST https://www.sharnafabiano.com/coaching/Order the book: Lead & Followhttps://www.amazon.com/Lead-Follow-Dance-Inspired-Teamwork/dp/1646632796/Support the Show!https://www.buzzsprout.com/1735834/support

Send Fan Mail by Text!Something changes radically when we see conflict not as a problem but as an opportunity to expand our understanding of our shared goal. In this episode, Sharna speaks with Lindsay Burr about Polarity Thinking and how this framework can transform the way we understand leadership, teamwork, conflict, and collaboration. Lindsay is CEO of the Yarbrough Group and based in Washington, DC. She has worked in business contexts, international political spaces and in US policy and elections, focusing on helping people clearly see and then navigate the systems that they're in.You'll learn:How Polarity Thinking helps identify both benefits and limitations of two opposing perspectivesHow people can hold different views while still working toward shared goals How “both/and” thinking can reduce conflict by clarifying the real problem to be solved collaboratively*Episode ReferencesGlobal Followership Conference http://www.followershipconference.com4-Day Training with Lindsay at the CPSI Conference June 23-27, 2024https://cpsiconference.com/Polarity Map Download (scroll down to the bottom of the page)https://www.yarbgroup.com/publicationsS2 E 14 - Simultaneous Leading and Following in Complex Organizations - Chris Fuziehttps://leadfollow.buzzsprout.com/1735834/13112770-simultaneous-leading-and-following-in-complex-organizations-chris-fuzie*Connect with Lindsay BurrYarbrough Group - https://www.yarbgroup.com/LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/lindsayyburr/ Support the show*Get a discounted coach session with Sharna with promo code PODCAST https://www.sharnafabiano.com/coaching/Order the book: Lead & Followhttps://www.amazon.com/Lead-Follow-Dance-Inspired-Teamwork/dp/1646632796/Support the Show!https://www.buzzsprout.com/1735834/support

Send Fan Mail by Text!Your lead and follow coaching tip for today is Visual focus. In most Western contexts, eye contact signals to the other person that you are paying attention to them. A lack of eye contact can signal the opposite: disconnection, dismissal, or disinterest. Just think about the last time you tried to share information or ask a question of someone who was looking at their screen, at their phone, or out the window. You may have had to repeat yourself because they literally didn’t hear you.On stage, the quickest way to move the audience’s focus from one place to another is for the performers to deliberately look in the new direction. The exception to this guideline of course is when you’re both looking at the same thing and talking about that thing, a power point slide, a white board, or maybe a beautiful sunset.In a physical sense, our thoughts tend to follow our visual gaze. That doesn’t mean you can’t look at someone and be thinking about the laundry or some urgent deadline, but it’s harder. In general, wherever you look, that’s what you’ll be thinking about. This is part of how the scrolling feature on your phone traps your thoughts – by trapping your eyes.So the tip this week is to look at the person you are speaking to or listening to. It sounds simple, but it can feel uncomfortable if you are not used to it, or if you have a challenging history with the other person, or if you’re just feeling distracted or rushed.One way to help yourself focus visually is to remove distractions. Put your phone away, put down anything you’re carrying, and if you can, sit down in a chair facing the person. If you can’t do that, angle your body toward them as much as you can. Sitting actually lowers your heart rate and it’s a quick way to narrow your field of vision.You can also tidy up your own space or your desk or your Zoom background so that it’s easier for other people to look at you. Here’s another Zoom tip that completely changed my life. Turn off self-view box, so that you cannot see yourself. Likewise, in shared physical spaces, remove any mirrors. Seeing yourself is incredibly distracting.If you still have trouble maintaining visual focus, ask yourself, what are you feeling or thinking that’s making it hard? Are you self-conscious about your appearance? Do you need to clear the air with this particular person?  Address any internal discomfort over visual focus at a separate time, in a way that feels appropriate and meaningful to you. If you’re not sure how to do that, start with some private journaling.Try this out, experiment, and let me know how it goes!Support the show*Get a discounted coach session with Sharna with promo code PODCAST https://www.sharnafabiano.com/coaching/Order the book: Lead & Followhttps://www.amazon.com/Lead-Follow-Dance-Inspired-Teamwork/dp/1646632796/Support the Show!https://www.buzzsprout.com/1735834/support

Send Fan Mail by Text!Your lead and follow coaching tip for today is Take turns. One summer I attended a large afternoon bbq, and a person I’d just met walked over and asked me about my work. Perfectly normal, right? But then he interrupted me before I could finish, and asked me another question. So, I started answering the new question, and then he interrupted again. Another question. Finally, I had to not answer at all and instead ask him a question just to break the pattern. You might be able to imagine how irritating this rapid fire question asking can be, especially at a relaxing afternoon party, and also how little interest you would probably have in spending more time with that person in the future. One reason interrupting is irritating is that it makes us feel that the other person isn’t listening. To feel connected, we need to be heard, whether we’re at a bbq or in a work meeting. When someone doesn’t feel heard, they instinctively pull away. They don’t want to talk or share or help or collaborate. Repeated interruption is basically a disconnection device.Now, once in a while, if it’s really important and if it’s done calmly and for a good reason, interrupting someone is actually fine. It’s when we do it a lot and without clear purpose that it can be damaging to relationships.So, as a proactive measure, the habit of taking turns can improve your relationships by preventing interruptions and increasing the chances that people around you feel heard and are therefore more comfortable and willing to connect with you. Taking turns means that when someone else is speaking, wait until they are completely finished before responding or before asking another question. If for some reason you need to interrupt, acknowledge that you are interrupting by saying something simple like, “Forgive me for interrupting but the wedding cake is being served right now, let’s go have some.” Or even, “I’m sorry to interrupt but I have another meeting at the top of the hour. Thank you so much for your time.” This will preserve the connection you have with that person.If you aren’t sure if the person is finished, you can ask, “Are you finished?” The urgent fast-paced flow of many workplaces can sometimes make it tempting to interrupt, assume you know what’s going to be said, or discount the response entirely. That’s a connection killer, and if you do this too much, you may have to start all over again building your connection with that person. The need to be heard is so strong that even if you think you DO already know what the person is going to say, it’s still important that you hear them say it. Try this out, experiment, and let me know how it goes!Support the show*Get a discounted coach session with Sharna with promo code PODCAST https://www.sharnafabiano.com/coaching/Order the book: Lead & Followhttps://www.amazon.com/Lead-Follow-Dance-Inspired-Teamwork/dp/1646632796/Support the Show!https://www.buzzsprout.com/1735834/support

Send Fan Mail by Text!Actor/Director Dan Istrate shares his thoughts on presence, connection, and social leading and following.  Dan grew up in Romania and has lived for the past 25 years in the United States. He’s had thousands of both painful and hilarious experiences of language and culture translation and mis-translation, working on both stage and screen in a wide variety of creative collaborations.Socially, his way of being seems to invite other people to be more open, more brave, more playful, more free. It’s something that’s hard to describe in words but it’s an area of leading and following that we nevertheless experience every single day. It just might transform how you see simple conversations all around you, with friends, at home, with strangers, and even maybe especially on dates. If you’re someone who feels at all anxious about talking to people, or like me feels that they are still recovering from the pandemic, this episode might be especially helpful."If you think about the fact that you cannot really influence the way people perceive you–in that idea I find freedom.""We think that the words are the thing, but the thing is the vibration.""The conversation can feel better if it is anchored in the depths of our being." "The most beautiful thing in the world is to connect with another human being." Episode ReferencesS1 E 15 - Lead/Follow Relationships in Live Theater Performance - Dan Istratehttps://leadfollow.buzzsprout.com/1735834/9621693-lead-follow-relationships-in-live-theater-performance-dan-istrate Connect with Dan Istrate:Website: www.danistrate.comIG: @DanIstrateDCFB: Dan.Istrate.796 Support the show*Get a discounted coach session with Sharna with promo code PODCAST https://www.sharnafabiano.com/coaching/Order the book: Lead & Followhttps://www.amazon.com/Lead-Follow-Dance-Inspired-Teamwork/dp/1646632796/Support the Show!https://www.buzzsprout.com/1735834/support

Send Fan Mail by Text!Yulia Tolstikov-Mast, Ph.D.  shares the concept of a global follower and especially of global followership as a force of power that can and does influence the far-reaching decisions of global leaders. Yulia is a global leadership and followership expert, an award-winning international leadership scholar, and an educator. Her scholarship and training focus on the internalization of leadership and followership education, non-Western approaches to leadership and followership, global followership and citizenship behaviors, and leader-follower role switching.  Her most significant contribution is the Handbook of International and Cross-Cultural Leadership Research Processes. The publication is a guide on conducting international research grounded in local epistemologies. Yulia was also Co-Investigator in Russia for the GLOBE 2020 Research Project.“The message that was initiated by soccer players and was amplified by the followers, and it started making changes in the world.” “I suggest we start posing the question, ‘Who are you as a global follower?’ and really attach energy to that question.”“I envision global followers as a force in numbers, in opinions, in actions.”Episode ReferencesTolstikov-Mast, Y. (2016). Global followership: The launch of the scholarly journey. In J. S. Osland, M. Li, & Y. Want (Eds.), Advances in Global Leadership (Vol. 9, pp. 109-150). Bingley, UK: Emerald.Tolstikov-Mast, Y., & Aghajanian, C. (2023). Intersectional approach to combating human trafficking: Applying an Interdisciplinary Global Leader-Follower Collaboration Paradigm. In: Dhiman, S.K., Marques, J., Schmieder-Ramirez, J., Malakyan, P.G. (eds) Handbook of Global Leadership and Followership. Springer. https://doi.org/10.1007/978-3-030-75831-8_38-1"What is Global Leadership?" https://blog.utc.edu/mark-mendenhall/files/2015/05/World-Financial-Review_What-is-Global-Leadership.pdf"10 socially-conscious players who showed footballers don’t need to 'stick to sport'"https://www.squawka.com/en/socially-conscious-footballers-dont-need-to-stick-to-sport/Title IX Company https://www.titlenine.com/who-we-are.htmlMighty Be Our Powers: How Sisterhood, Prayer, and Sex Changed a Nation at War, by Leymah Gbowee https://www.amazon.com/Mighty-Be-Our-Powers-Sisterhood/dp/0984295194 National Whistleblower Centerhttps://www.whistleblowers.org/how-whistleblowers-changed-the-world/ Global Followership Conference www.followershipconference.com *Connect with Yulia Tolstikov-Masthttps://www.linkedin.com/in/yulia-tolstikov-mast-ph-d-b8b18611/ Support the show*Get a discounted coach session with Sharna with promo code PODCAST https://www.sharnafabiano.com/coaching/Order the book: Lead & Followhttps://www.amazon.com/Lead-Follow-Dance-Inspired-Teamwork/dp/1646632796/Support the Show!https://www.buzzsprout.com/1735834/support

Send Fan Mail by Text!Most of us like to believe we'd make the ethical choice. But in the moment, competing pressures—loyalty, fear of consequences, career ambitions, or uncertainty about what's right—can make ethical decisions far more complicated than they appear. In this episode, Sharna talks with Dr. Kyle Payne about why good people sometimes stay silent, what makes it difficult to challenge authority, and how individuals can respond with integrity when faced with questionable decisions or behavior.Kyle works in technical services at the American Welding Society, teaches in the Heller College of Business at Roosevelt University, and supports clients with Development Dimensions International and his own consultancy, Quality Culture. He has a PhD in human capital management and master’s degrees in philosophy, education, and business. You'll learn:Why ethical dilemmas at work are often more complicated than they seemThe barriers that keep people from speaking upHow employees can influence ethical leadership without formal authorityStrategies for responding to difficult situations Why creating ethical organizations is a shared responsibility—not just a leader's job Research References Mary Uhl-Bien, Ronald E. Riggio, Kevin B. Lowe, Melissa K. Carsten. Followership theory: A review and research agenda. The Leadership Quarterly, Volume 25, Issue 1, 2014, Pages 83-104. Carsten, M. K., & Uhl-Bien, M. (2013). Ethical Followership: An Examination of Followership Beliefs and Crimes of Obedience. Journal of Leadership & Organizational Studies, 20(1), 49-61. Chaleff, I. (2009). The courageous follower: Standing up to and for our leaders (3rd ed.). Berret-Koehler Publishers.Hernandez, M., & Sitkin, S. B. (2012). Who is leading the leader? Follower influence on leader ethicality. In D. D. Cremer, & A. E. Tenbrunsel (Eds.), Behavioral business ethics: Shaping an emerging field (pp. 81-104). Routledge. Kassing, J. (2011). Dissent in organizations. Polity Press.Payne, Kyle (2024) "“Making Room for Followers: A Grounded Theory Study of Ethical Followership Among Professional Engineers”," The International Journal of Ethical Leadership: Vol. 11, Article 6.Other References Kasia Urbaniak, Unbound S1 E8: How Courageous Followers can stop Destructive Leadership - Alain de Sales Global Followership Conference Connect with Dr. Kyle Payne: Website: http://www.kylepaynephd.com LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/kyle-payne-phd-98567b50/ Support the show*Get a discounted coach session with Sharna with promo code PODCAST https://www.sharnafabiano.com/coaching/Order the book: Lead & Followhttps://www.amazon.com/Lead-Follow-Dance-Inspired-Teamwork/dp/1646632796/Support the Show!https://www.buzzsprout.com/1735834/support

Send Fan Mail by Text!Hi Everyone, this is Sharna. I’ve spent the beginning of the year in a resting phase with the podcast, letting the new season slowly take shape in my mind. New episodes are coming soon, in early March, and I’m hoping this little preview will give you a sense of how I’m thinking about season 3 as a collection of conversations.*Democrats Have a Better Option Than BidenThe Ezra Klein Show https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/democrats-have-a-better-option-than-biden/id1548604447?i=1000645559771Support the show*Get a discounted coach session with Sharna with promo code PODCAST https://www.sharnafabiano.com/coaching/Order the book: Lead & Followhttps://www.amazon.com/Lead-Follow-Dance-Inspired-Teamwork/dp/1646632796/Support the Show!https://www.buzzsprout.com/1735834/support

Send Fan Mail by Text!In this short, end-of year episode, host Sharna Fabiano reflects on season 2 and shares three  compelling lead and follow ideas to try out in your own life and work in 2024. Please send feedback on Season 2 along with suggestions for Season 3 directly to Sharna at [email protected] thanks to Glover Gill for providing our music.Lead & Follow, by Sharna Fabianohttps://www.sharnafabiano.com/book/ The FREE Lead & Follow  Skill Sheethttps://www.sharnafabiano.com/book/Unbound: A Woman's Guide to Power, by Kasia Urbaniakhttps://www.kasiaurbaniak.com/unbound-bookS1 E 23: The Necessity of Followership in Peace Building – Pedro Portelahttps://leadfollow.buzzsprout.com/1735834/10291927-the-necessity-of-followership-in-peace-building-pedro-portelaS1 E12: Followership Skills as Part of Professional Development - Brian Rookhttps://leadfollow.buzzsprout.com/1735834/9075187-followership-skills-as-part-of-professional-development-brian-rookS1 E8: Courageous Followers can Stop Destructive Leadership - Alain de Saleshttps://leadfollow.buzzsprout.com/1735834/8716279-courageous-followers-can-stop-destructive-leadership-alain-de-salesSupport the show*Get a discounted coach session with Sharna with promo code PODCAST https://www.sharnafabiano.com/coaching/Order the book: Lead & Followhttps://www.amazon.com/Lead-Follow-Dance-Inspired-Teamwork/dp/1646632796/Support the Show!https://www.buzzsprout.com/1735834/support

Send Fan Mail by Text!Dr. Wendy M. Edmonds is Interim Chair of the Management, Marketing, and Public Administration Department in the College of Business at a Historically Black University, and Co-Chair of the Global Followership Conference 2024.  Her research focus is on toxic followership (people following bad people).  She is an author, and internationally recognized toxic followership expert with a passion for positive change.  Dr. Edmonds describes herself as a Workplace Toxicologist whose mission is to dismantle toxic followership and foster healthier, more productive environments. Wendy shares the characteristics of this important - if darker - aspect of followership and how it influences how powerful or powerless we may feel in our every day lives as employees, as members of a community, or as citizens.  We also discuss how to use popular media and physical role plays in the classroom to inspire rich conversations about different kinds of followership and leadership choices.  “Toxic followership is consistent destructive behavior over and over again.”  “We have to begin to have others understand that it doesn’t matter where you are – you have power that you can make the change.”  “How you use power is what’s most important.” Episode ReferencesCNN: Escape From Jonestownhttps://vimeo.com/244066619  S1 E8- Courageous Followers can Stop Destructive Leadership - Alain de Saleshttps://leadfollow.buzzsprout.com/1735834/8716279-courageous-followers-can-stop-destructive-leadership-alain-de-sales Time of Essence documentary - the story of Essence Magazinehttps://www.oprah.com/app/time-of-essence-full-episodes.html Self-made TV series – inspired by the life of Madame CJ Walkerhttps://www.netflix.com/title/80202462Intoxicating Followership, by Wendy M Edmondshttps://www.amazon.com/Intoxicating-Followership-Jonestown-Wendy-Edmonds/dp/1800714599Global Followership Conferencehttp://www.followershipconference.com  Connect with Dr. Wendy M. Edmondshttps://www.drwendymedmonds.com/ Support the show*Get a discounted coach session with Sharna with promo code PODCAST https://www.sharnafabiano.com/coaching/Order the book: Lead & Followhttps://www.amazon.com/Lead-Follow-Dance-Inspired-Teamwork/dp/1646632796/Support the Show!https://www.buzzsprout.com/1735834/support

Send Fan Mail by Text!Langley Sharp is the former head of the Centre for Army Leadership, responsible for championing leadership excellence across the British Army.  After graduating from Sandhurst two decades ago, his career in the Parachute Regiment, which included operational command at every rank, saw him deployed to Northern Ireland, Macedonia, Afghanistan and Iraq. Among his many varied roles, he led a counter-insurgency Task Force operation, commanded a Parachute Regiment Battalion and delivered the Ministry of Defence’s training programme for the London 2012 Olympics venue security. He is the author of the British Army’s official account of leadership, The Habit of Excellence, distilling over three centuries of the Army's experience in the art, science and practice of leadership. And he is Founder and Director of the consultancy firm Frontier Leadership.In this episode, Langley shares how and why followership is now becoming more explicit in the Army’s official documentation of itself, and how that articulation will in turn refine the way service members are trained in the future."Warfare is not a place for individuals."“When you have to think about who’s following and who’s leading, there’s probably something wrong in the team”“You need good followership to have good mission command.”“Our ability to scale collaboration enables us to do great things when it works well.” Episode References> Langley Sharp, The Habit of Excellence> British Army Doctrine Note on Followership> Centre for Army Leadership Conference 2023 - Creating Effective Followership“Freedom, however, is not the last word. Freedom is only part of the story and half of the truth. Freedom is but the negative aspect of the whole phenomenon whose positive aspect is responsibleness. In fact, freedom is in danger of degenerating into mere arbitrariness unless it is lived in terms of responsibleness.” –Frankl. V.E. (1992). Man’s Search for Meaning, 4th edition. Boston: Beacon Press, 134.Kelley R.E., The Power of Followership: How to Create Leaders People Want to Follow and Followers Who Lead Themselves, New York: Doubleday, 1992Chaleff, I. (1995). The courageous follower: Standing up to and for our leaders. San Francisco: Berrett-Koehler Publishers."For the strength of the Pack is the Wolf, and the strength of the Wolf is the Pack.”–Rudyard Kipling, The Jungle Book Connect with Langley Sharphttps://frontierleadership.co.uk/https://www.linkedin.com/in/langley-sharp/ Support the show*Get a discounted coach session with Sharna with promo code PODCAST https://www.sharnafabiano.com/coaching/Order the book: Lead & Followhttps://www.amazon.com/Lead-Follow-Dance-Inspired-Teamwork/dp/1646632796/Support the Show!https://www.buzzsprout.com/1735834/support

Send Fan Mail by Text!David Elser, author of Doing the Chores, shares his concept of smart followership through personal stories of growing up on a small family farm in northwest Ohio.  David is a learning and development professional based in Coldwater Lake, Michigan who has over 30 years of experience in the transportation industry. He works with employees at all levels, from essential front-line workers to executive leaders. David has a master's degree in organizational management and is a Certified Professional Coach. “[Smart followership] is having the willingness and ability to enthusiastically and effectively provide support.” “What if we brought into the organization smart followership skills training, what would that mean?” "Sometimes its best to step back and let others come up with the solution."Episode ReferencesShirtless Dancing Guyhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fW8amMCVAJQTrust, Followership, and Leadership in Non-Profit Change Processes - Tom Klaushttps://leadfollow.buzzsprout.com/1735834/9340458-trust-followership-and-leadership-in-non-profit-change-processes-tom-klausTraining Everyone in Both Leadership and Followership – Samantha Hurwitzhttps://leadfollow.buzzsprout.com/1735834/13325495-training-everyone-in-both-leadership-and-followership-samantha-hurwitz HR Perspective on Followership and Leadership Training - Julie Newmanhttps://leadfollow.buzzsprout.com/1735834/13364704-hr-perspective-on-followership-and-leadership-training-julie-newman Connect with David ElserDoing the Chores Websitehttps://doingthechores.comDoing the Chores Book (adults)https://a.co/d/esqqdoSDoing the Chores Book (kids)https://a.co/d/9QvryVqFacebookhttps://www.facebook.com/FollowSmartLinkedInhttps://www.linkedin.com/in/david-r-elser-5a17655  Support the show*Get a discounted coach session with Sharna with promo code PODCAST https://www.sharnafabiano.com/coaching/Order the book: Lead & Followhttps://www.amazon.com/Lead-Follow-Dance-Inspired-Teamwork/dp/1646632796/Support the Show!https://www.buzzsprout.com/1735834/support

Send Fan Mail by Text!David Scott is a PhD Researcher at the University of Strathclyde in Glasgow, Scotland. He is exploring Followership Salience as a factor of Leadership in Organisations, and is also a Visiting Lecturer in Business at Leeds Trinity University. In this episode, he shares his concept of followership as informal leadership, and his view on how the universal practice of followership and followership-centric leadership within organizations can help diversify executive teams and boards to meet UN Sustainable Development Goals.  David is a highly experienced Company Director and Charity Trustee with particular interest in effecting positive environmental and social change through people. He is  Co-Chair of the 2024 Global Followership Conference hosted by the University of Strathclyde in Glasgow.“We came up with the definition of followership as ‘purpose-focused informal leadership’” “It’s impossible to be a role model without being a leader.”“By me thinking of myself first and foremost as a followership practitioner. It removes the fear when someone else wants to lead me, even as a chief executive of a large organization.”“Taking this followership-centric approach enabled so many more team players to come into the mix…to ensure that we as an organization stayed true to our purpose.”Episode ReferencesJimmy Collins, Creative Followershiphttps://www.amazon.com/Creative-Followership-Greatness-Jimmy-Collins/dp/1929619480Philip Meilinger, “The 10 Rules of Good Followership”https://engineeringmanagementinstitute.org/wp-content/uploads/2015/09/10_Followship_Rules_Meilinger.pdfIra Chaleff, The Courageous Follower: Standing up To and For our Leadershttps://www.amazon.com/Courageous-Follower-Standing-Our-Leaders/dp/1605092738Edmonstone, J. (2003), "Learning and development in action learning: the energy investment model", Industrial and Commercial Training, Vol. 35 No. 1, pp. 26-28.Mango, E. (2018) 'Rethinking Leadership Theories'. Open Journal of Leadership, 7 (01), pp. 57-88.Barbara Kellermanhttps://barbarakellerman.com/Julian B. Rotter, Locus of Control https://www.simplypsychology.org/locus-of-control.htmlConnect with David Scotthttps://www.linkedin.com/in/davidhunterscott/ Support the show*Get a discounted coach session with Sharna with promo code PODCAST https://www.sharnafabiano.com/coaching/Order the book: Lead & Followhttps://www.amazon.com/Lead-Follow-Dance-Inspired-Teamwork/dp/1646632796/Support the Show!https://www.buzzsprout.com/1735834/support

Send Fan Mail by Text!Christian Monö is a Speaker, Author and Sweden’s first and only followership expert. In this episode, he shares what he has discovered in more than 15 years exploring what he calls “natural followership." We discuss how our human ancestors self-organized in egalitarian band societies, and also how the leadership industry is affecting people, businesses and societies today. Among Chris' clients are the Swedish Armed Forces, and he has a new book coming out in English in 2024.“[Natural followership] is the process of how people instinctively follow each other without being guided by formal rules or regulations.”“We like to follow people who can help us get where we already want to go.”“As soon as you create an environment in which people feel they are not free, they will start reacting to it.”“In natural followership the group sets the vision not a leader.”“When it comes to changing the world it’s not the leaders who do it; it’s the followers.” Episode ReferencesRobert Kelley, Power of FollowershipValve Softwarehttps://www.valvesoftware.com/en/ Buurtzorghttps://www.buurtzorg.com/https://www.theguardian.com/social-care-network/2017/may/09/buurtzorg-dutch-model-neighbourhood-care Björn Lundén Informationhttps://bjornlundenblogg.se/sv/mina-bocker/2021/10/sim-metoden/Connect with Chris MonöWebsite - https://www.followership.se/LinkedIn - https://www.linkedin.com/in/christian-monoe/Facebook - https://www.facebook.com/followership.se/ Support the show*Get a discounted coach session with Sharna with promo code PODCAST https://www.sharnafabiano.com/coaching/Order the book: Lead & Followhttps://www.amazon.com/Lead-Follow-Dance-Inspired-Teamwork/dp/1646632796/Support the Show!https://www.buzzsprout.com/1735834/support

Send Fan Mail by Text!This episode is a conversation about integrated leadership-followership education, featuring both Fatema Haque, Academic Program Manager & LEO Adjunct Lecturer at the Barger Leadership Institute at the University of Michigan, and also Dorine Lawrence-Hughes, Assistant Dean of Undergraduate Education at the University of Michigan. They are both involved in the introduction of followership to the Barger Leadership Institute curriculum and I’m excited to have them on the show together to talk about that process and how it’s preparing students for both professional and community work. “It helps students to see the necessity of the critical consciousness that comes with good followership.”“Giving students agency to pick what they want to work has been really essential.”“Talking about what it means to be a good follower, what it means to be ethical, what it means to hold our leaders accountable, is good and necessary work that we need to be doing now.”“This topic blows students away.” Episode Resources Barger Leadership Institute, University of Michiganhttps://lsa.umich.edu/bliBarbara Kellerman, Bad Leadershiphttps://www.amazon.com/Bad-Leadership-Happens-Matters-Common/dp/1591391660Ira Chaleff, The Courageous Follower https://www.amazon.com/Courageous-Follower-Standing-Our-Leaders/dp/1605092738Basil Read, Read & Read Leadership and Management Consultants, LLChttps://www.read-read.com/Marc and Samantha Hurwitz, Leadership is Half the Storyhttp://www.teachingfollowerscourage.comBrazen Communicationhttps://brazencommunication.com/ Support the show*Get a discounted coach session with Sharna with promo code PODCAST https://www.sharnafabiano.com/coaching/Order the book: Lead & Followhttps://www.amazon.com/Lead-Follow-Dance-Inspired-Teamwork/dp/1646632796/Support the Show!https://www.buzzsprout.com/1735834/support

Send Fan Mail by Text!I speak with Erica Dawson, Professor of Practice and Nancy and Bob Selander Executive Director of the Engineering Leadership Programs at Cornell University.Erica’s Montana upbringing instilled in her a deep sense of connection to the mountains and outdoors. But her thirst for adventure was too big even for the Big Sky State, so eventually she made the leap to New York to pursue a PhD in Social Psychology at Cornell University. She went on to become a professor at the Yale School of Management, where her intellectual interests expanded from judgement and decision-making to themes of developing human potential. As a Faculty Fellow of the Dalai Lama Center for Ethics and Transformative Values at MIT, she has traveled the world teaching ethical leadership to audiences as diverse as Tibetan monks, European women pharmaceutical scientists, and Colombian judges. Erica left Yale after a decade to found the US-Israel Center for Innovation and Economic Sustainability at UC-San Diego, then returned to Cornell in 2012 as the founding Executive Director of the Cornell Engineering Leadership Program.  As you can see, Erica has a fascinating and varied background. I invited her to speak on the podcast because she has built and continues to build followership into the engineering leadership curricula in very fundamental and transformative ways, and there is a lot to learn from what’s been happening there over the past decade.“If you don’t have an appreciation for what it is to be an active, effective, powerful follower, you absolutely cannot be an active, effective, powerful leader.” “Some people have never identified that if I’m showing up and I’m just disengaged, I’m costing the group something. There’s a responsibility to either become engaged or exit myself, because it’s a cost.” “For some…understanding that followership is a very active role, where you own your own ability to both support and challenge, that’s pretty novel.”  “When we teach followership we are teaching the fundamental skills of being able to have influence from any position in a team or an organization, and that’s actually what people want.” Episode ReferencesIra Chaleff, The Courageous Follower https://irachaleffauthor.com/books-the-courageous-follower/Cornell Engineering Leadership Programshttps://leadership.engineering.cornell.edu/S1 E5: Equitable Leading and Following in the Coaching Relationship - Amy Lombardo https://leadfollow.buzzsprout.com/1735834/8586603-a-model-of-equitable-leading-and-following-in-the-coaching-relationship-amy-lombardo Support the show*Get a discounted coach session with Sharna with promo code PODCAST https://www.sharnafabiano.com/coaching/Order the book: Lead & Followhttps://www.amazon.com/Lead-Follow-Dance-Inspired-Teamwork/dp/1646632796/Support the Show!https://www.buzzsprout.com/1735834/support

Send Fan Mail by Text!Dr. David Leitner has spent the last 15 years as a followership, leadership, and strategy educator.  In this episode, he shares his passion and perspective on followership and leadership not only interpersonally but also as a way of analyzing relationships between states, communities, or companies.Dr. D not only teaches these topics academically, he runs workshops, seminars, and lectures on for multinational companies, the Israeli Defense Forces, Military Preparation Academies, Israel Gap Year programs, Youth groups and more. As an IDF disabled veteran suffering from CRPS, David has been an advocate for accessibility and inclusion for over 20 years. He is married with 3 kids, and he is the only International Practical Shooting Confederation wheelchair competitor in Israel. “Followership is the decision to ascribe to a strategic process that supports and furthers the manifestation of a mutually defined purpose.”“Followership in and of itself is a choice.”“Emergent leadership is lost because people don’t want to be followers especially when they’re in a [formal] position of leadership.”Episode References Robert Kelley, "In Praise of Followers," HBR 1998 Barbara Kellerman, "What Every Leader Needs to Know about Followers," HBR 2007S1 E20 - Listening as a Core Followership Skill - Eran MagenConnect with Dr. David LeitnerWebsite: https://www.drdleitner.com/LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/davidleitner/Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/david.a.leitner Support the show*Get a discounted coach session with Sharna with promo code PODCAST https://www.sharnafabiano.com/coaching/Order the book: Lead & Followhttps://www.amazon.com/Lead-Follow-Dance-Inspired-Teamwork/dp/1646632796/Support the Show!https://www.buzzsprout.com/1735834/support

Send Fan Mail by Text!Nixon Jallo is Husband, Father, Chief Executive of FOLDEVIN Consults Ltd., Bishop of Supernatural Love Ministries, Rector of Agape Bible College, Writer and Researcher based in Jalingo, Taraba State, Northeast Nigeria. He speaks about teaching followership in both faith communities and business communities, how followership differs at each level of an organization, and why recognizing the value of followers and followership is critical to success in organizations of all kinds.Jallo completed a Master’s degree in Theology and is now completing another one in Organizational Leadership, and is the author of several books on followership including Principles of Followership, Understanding Followership and Leadership Fusion, and My Ideal Leader: The Heart Cry of Followers. “Followership is a sign of humility that I am willing to be led. I am willing to help the leader lead well.”“There are people who are vision writers and those who are vision runners. And those people who run with the vision are the followers.” “Every organization succeeds because the followers are given the room to show their ability and their skill.” Principles of Followership, by Nixon Jallohttps://www.amazon.com/PRINCIPLES-FOLLOWERSHIP-NIXON-JALLO/dp/B08SRFBW4B/ Nixon Jallo on LinkedIn https://www.linkedin.com/in/nixon-jallo-a60a4b27/ Support the show*Get a discounted coach session with Sharna with promo code PODCAST https://www.sharnafabiano.com/coaching/Order the book: Lead & Followhttps://www.amazon.com/Lead-Follow-Dance-Inspired-Teamwork/dp/1646632796/Support the Show!https://www.buzzsprout.com/1735834/support

Send Fan Mail by Text!Your lead and follow coaching tip for today is Choose an inner orientation. This technique is also called choosing a mindset or an intention. I’m calling it an inner orientation because I want you to use it as a deliberate and methodical way to orient to people and situations you are in.Most of the time, our inner state is reactive, and we’re not really choosing it. You like some people and dislike others. You feel comfortable or uncomfortable, inspired or bored, and you attribute those inner states to external circumstances. That’s a normal process AND at the same time, we have the ability as humans to choose a specific way of orienting from the inside.For example, if you’re thinking about how you want to orient in an upcoming meeting, you might choose a quality like receptivity, openness, curiosity, or any other quality that will help you participate in a positive and productive way. Different situations may call for different orientations, especially if you are switching back and forth between leadership and followership functions throughout your day, as many of us do.When you choose your inner orientation, make sure you take a moment to feel it in your body, and to notice what it feels like, so you can track yourself, and remind yourself to return to being receptive or curious or open when you find yourself becoming distracted. Practice sitting, standing, and walking in a way that you can feel this quality in your body and recognize it.This tip may sound super simple, but I assure you, it is one of the most powerful techniques I teach. When you embody positive inner states on a regular basis, you’ll feel more comfortable in your own skin, communication will become clearer, and relationships with the people around you will begin to improve.Try this out, experiment, and let me know how it goes!Support the show*Get a discounted coach session with Sharna with promo code PODCAST https://www.sharnafabiano.com/coaching/Order the book: Lead & Followhttps://www.amazon.com/Lead-Follow-Dance-Inspired-Teamwork/dp/1646632796/Support the Show!https://www.buzzsprout.com/1735834/support

Send Fan Mail by Text!Julie Newman, a Certified Human Resources Leader in Ontario, Canada, shares her experience coordinating a recent implementation of leadership and followership training for a nonprofit client.Julie is a well-rounded HR professional with 15 years of experience in all areas of HR, from building organizational culture, performance management, recruitment, employee relations, and health and safety. She’s really done it all! Prior to transitioning to HR consulting, Julie spent over 11 years in senior leadership within the non-profit sector.  Since discovering followership several years ago, she has become an advocate for using the leadership-followership model in organizations and in her own work to create and support welcoming and inclusive workplaces.  "How better can you tell your people that they mean something to you than to say all of you are leaders and all of you are followers. ""It sends such a strong message to your people that you value them in their development but also in what they have to say. ""Diving into followership opens this whole amazing great world and a different view and once you go there you can’t go back.""You need to be a leader in the HR specialty but also the follower to really apply those pieces in the best possible way for the organization that you are supporting."Connect with Julie NewmanLinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/julie-newman-chrl/Email: [email protected]: www.willowhallhr.com  Support the show*Get a discounted coach session with Sharna with promo code PODCAST https://www.sharnafabiano.com/coaching/Order the book: Lead & Followhttps://www.amazon.com/Lead-Follow-Dance-Inspired-Teamwork/dp/1646632796/Support the Show!https://www.buzzsprout.com/1735834/support

Send Fan Mail by Text!Your lead and follow coaching tip for today is Deepen your breath. Many of us are in the habit of shallow breathing, sometimes called chest breathing, where the collarbones and sometimes shoulders move up and down with each inhale and exhale. Because of tension in the muscles, or sometimes just because of the general speed of working life, our bodies can get used to a shallow, fast rhythm of breathing, using only a small amount of our lung capacity and giving us only a small amount of oxygen. Shallow breathing can also increase heart rate and blood pressure, making you feel anxious, or it can prevent CO2 from exiting the body, making you feel sleepy.  There are lots of great breathing techniques out there to try, but my suggestion today is a very simple one. It’s to focus on the location of your inhale and exhale. More specifically, I’d like you to think about the location of the sensations of inhaling and exhaling. This is not a clinical anatomical question, and there’s no right answer. Rather it’s an imaginative exercise.First notice where you are most aware of the feeling of your inhale and exhale. It might be your chest or belly, but it may be somewhere else, your nose for example. If the location is high, in your face or upper chest, try to gently shift the location down a few inches, imagining that the air was entering the filling your body lower down. Keep going down a few inches at a time until you reach your lower belly. Don’t overthink this exercise, just imagine air filling your body. If you’re already feeling your breath in your belly, you might imagine it expanding upward instead, filling also your middle abdomen and chest. Don’t force anything, just imagine opening more space for the air to flow in and out.Not only does deep, full breathing reduce all kinds of anxiety and stress, research shows that it improves concentration and mental clarity as well. It will likely make you appear more relaxed and approachable to other people as well. Try this breath location exercise a few times throughout the day, maybe before and after meetings, or anytime you want to feel more calm, more centered, or more focused.  Try this out, experiment, and let me know how it goes!Support the show*Get a discounted coach session with Sharna with promo code PODCAST https://www.sharnafabiano.com/coaching/Order the book: Lead & Followhttps://www.amazon.com/Lead-Follow-Dance-Inspired-Teamwork/dp/1646632796/Support the Show!https://www.buzzsprout.com/1735834/support

Send Fan Mail by Text!Together with her partner in all things, Marc Hurwitz, my guest Samantha Hurwitz is co-author of the game-changing book Leadership is Half the Story and co-founder of the innovative training and development company FliP University, based in Waterloo, Ontario, Canada. Samantha and Marc are also co-founders of the Global Followership Conference, which is where she and I first met in 2019. She describes herself as a recovered corporate executive, and as Chief Encouragement Officer of Flip University, she and Marc are setting the gold standard for "pracademic" leadership and followership training in organizations of all sizes.In this episode, Samantha shares both methods and strategies for training whole organizations in both leadership and followership, how this approach boosts inclusion and other crucial ROIs in today's professional landscape.“When it comes to leadership development, the strongest return on investment is actually closer to the front lines than your senior executives.” “Anytime when an organization has agreed to teach everyone at every level in both leadership and followership, it has been transformative.” “If your organization is truly striving for equity… then you absolutely have to provide leadership development to everyone.”“We want people to stop thinking about a leader-centric world and start thinking about a partner-centric world”Episode ResourcesFlip Universityhttp://flip.universityLeadership is Half the Story, Marc Hurwitz and Samantha Hurwitz https://www.amazon.com/Leadership-Half-Story-Followership-Collaboration/dp/1487522460Samantha Hurwitz on LinkedInhttp://ww.linkedin.com/in/samanthakerrhurwitz/Global Followership Conferencehttp://ww.followershipconference.comReferenced ArticlesMeindl, J. R., Ehrlich, S. B., Dukerich, J. M. (1985). The romance of leadership. Administrative Science Quarterly, 30(1), 78-102. https://doi.org/10.2307/2392813Hurwitz, M., & Hurwitz, S. (2009). The romance of the follower: Part 1. Industrial and Commercial Training, 41(2), 80-86. https://doi.org/10.1108/00197850910939117Hurwitz, M., & Hurwitz, S. (2009). The romance of the follower: Part 2. Industrial and Commercial Training, 41(4), 199-206. https://doi.org/10.1108/00197850910962788Hurwitz, M., & Hurwitz, S. (2009). The romance of the follower: Part 3. Industrial and Commercial Training, 41(6), 326-333. https://doi.org/10.1108/00197850910983929 Support the show*Get a discounted coach session with Sharna with promo code PODCAST https://www.sharnafabiano.com/coaching/Order the book: Lead & Followhttps://www.amazon.com/Lead-Follow-Dance-Inspired-Teamwork/dp/1646632796/Support the Show!https://www.buzzsprout.com/1735834/support

Send Fan Mail by Text!Dr. Chris Fuzie, owner of CMF Leadership Consulting, talks through the development and delivery of his Effective Followership training program and how it works in combination with leadership training. We also discuss how most employees in large complex organizations are actually leading and following at the same time, whether they realize it or not! And how focusing more on consistent, desired behaviors can often be more impactful than focusing solely on leadership vs followership role awareness. Chris is a Leaderologist II with the National Leaderology Association. He is a developer, trainer, and consultant for leadership of public, private, for-profit, and non-profit organizations. Chris is a graduate of the FBI National Academy and a former National Instructor for the International Association of Chiefs of Police. After 28 years of public service, he is an honorably retired Lieutenant/Commander from the Modesto Police Department where he led teams such as the Homicide Investigations Team, Hostage Negotiations Team, and Street-Level Drug Enforcement Team. He currently serves as the Business/HR Manager for the Stanislaus County District Attorney’s Office in California.*“There’s no rank in the chopper.”“You can’t just delegate tasks without delegating the authority for those tasks… but the positional person still takes responsibility for what happens.”“A lot of this is raising awareness of what it is to be a good follower, and that it’s so synonymous with being a good leader.”“When we focus on the behaviors, then it doesn’t matter whether you’re in a leadership role or a followership role. You’re still doing the same behavior.” Connect with Chris Fuziehttps://www.cmfleadership.com/effectivefollowership Support the show*Get a discounted coach session with Sharna with promo code PODCAST https://www.sharnafabiano.com/coaching/Order the book: Lead & Followhttps://www.amazon.com/Lead-Follow-Dance-Inspired-Teamwork/dp/1646632796/Support the Show!https://www.buzzsprout.com/1735834/support

Send Fan Mail by Text!My guest Erin Barry is currently working on her PhD in Health Professions Education focusing on leadership and followership within healthcare teams. She shares her observations of how meaningful and flexible followership impacts the quality of care delivered to patients, as well as the necessity of regular peer feedback and personal reflection.Erin Barry is Assistant Professor in the Department of Anesthesiology at the Uniformed Services University (USU). She is a health professions education researcher who develops and delivers curriculum and education assessments, and conducts research and scholarship related to leadership, followership, and healthcare teams. She has a secondary appointment as Assistant Professor in the USU Department of Military and Emergency Medicine as well as the Center for Health Professions Education. She contributes to leadership education, development, assessment, scholarship, and online learning. Additionally, she is a Leadership Coach with certification from the Kansas Leadership Institute and the Innovative Leadership Institute. She has co-authored more than 50 papers and chapters as well as the book, Innovative Leadership for Healthcare. She is a co-founder of the International Leadership Association's Healthcare Leadership Community. In addition, she helps to mentor faculty, staff, and students with regard to research activities.  “Healthcare is a team sport”“We get [students] to think about what their dominant style of followership is so that they can see that it’s probably going to shift depending on the situation.”“We talk a lot about how even as a follower you have a lot more influence than you might assume.”“Our different roles really do need to change depending on what’s needed by the team.”Connect with Erin Barryhttps://www.usuhs.edu/node/11086Episode ReferencesEd O’Malley and Julia Fabris McBride, Kansas Leadership Center, When Everyone Leads: How The Toughest Challenges Get Seen And SolvedPrevious episode: Leadership, Followership and Emotional Intelligence (IWU Part 3) - Yolonda Tonette Sanders  Support the show*Get a discounted coach session with Sharna with promo code PODCAST https://www.sharnafabiano.com/coaching/Order the book: Lead & Followhttps://www.amazon.com/Lead-Follow-Dance-Inspired-Teamwork/dp/1646632796/Support the Show!https://www.buzzsprout.com/1735834/support

Send Fan Mail by Text!Your lead and follow coaching tip for today is Tune in. You’ve probably heard many times that active listening is an important skill for just about anything, including leadership and followership. Tuning in does include listening with your ears, but it’s much more than that. It’s more like listening with your whole body, directing your attention with all of your senses open toward one person or one group of people. Think of the phrase reading the room. To do that well we need to do more than listen to what people say. We need to tune in on a nonverbal level, or become attuned to the person or people we’re interacting with. Think of adjusting an old analog radio dial or radio antenna to clear the static and hear the signal more clearly. That’s what we want to do when we tune in. We’re clearing the static from our own perception so that we can receive clear signals from the people in front of us, at least as clear as possible, so that we can respond to them appropriately.So start noticing subtle things like emotional tone, speech volume, energy level, facial expression and body posture. Does the person seem upbeat? Tired? Concerned? Enthusiastic? Distracted? It could be a lot of things, and to be clear, you will never know exactly what another person is feeling or experiencing, unless they tell you. We misread each other all the time, because we think that like professional actors, we’re transparent, that what we express in our facial expression what we’re feeling on the inside. But most people are actually NOT transparent. Tuning in is not mind-reading.Still, observing the other person’s nonverbal signals does a couple of very useful things. One: like a mindfulness practice, it brings you into the present moment, making it less likely that you’ll get distracted by your own thoughts. And two: it makes the other person feel a little bit more seen by you, as a human being, and that one of the most reliable ways to create connection, even with a stranger, and set the stage for a more honest, more productive conversation. Try this out, experiment, and let me know how it goes!Support the show*Get a discounted coach session with Sharna with promo code PODCAST https://www.sharnafabiano.com/coaching/Order the book: Lead & Followhttps://www.amazon.com/Lead-Follow-Dance-Inspired-Teamwork/dp/1646632796/Support the Show!https://www.buzzsprout.com/1735834/support

Send Fan Mail by Text!This week on the podcast, I speak with Maddie Gray, a Leadership & Organizational Studies major at the University of Southern Maine and a member of this year’s USM Collegiate Leadership Competition team.  She has been involved with 4-H for fifteen years, competing in public speaking competitions and building her leadership and followership skills. Maddie speaks eloquently and candidly about supporting others, having difficult team conversations, and her experience leading and following as a member of the 4-H youth development program. This episode also has great examples of the twin concepts of situational leadership and situational followership, plus lots of subtle yet powerful tips for anyone working in teams, especially for those who are frequently sharing or rotating the leadership role.“People aren’t afraid knowing they’re going to have a follower.” This episode is part 2 of the USM series, so if you haven't already, please also go back and listen to Part 1 with Professor Dan Jenkins.Episode References Ira Chaleff, The Courageous Follower https://www.amazon.com/Courageous-Follower-Standing-Our-Leaders/dp/1605092738/4-H Youth Development Organizationhttps://4-h.org/Dancing Guy – First Follower Videohttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fW8amMCVAJQ Support the show*Get a discounted coach session with Sharna with promo code PODCAST https://www.sharnafabiano.com/coaching/Order the book: Lead & Followhttps://www.amazon.com/Lead-Follow-Dance-Inspired-Teamwork/dp/1646632796/Support the Show!https://www.buzzsprout.com/1735834/support