Leading Second Podcast

We can find ourselves caught between two competing narratives when it comes to seeking help: the fear of appearing weak and the cultural tendency to wear our struggles as badges of identity. Brandon sits down with Roger and Sarah Stanton, licensed mental health counselors, to discuss how important it is for leaders to receive the care they need to be able to carry on in ministry. The call is clear: stop carrying the weight alone and step into the freedom God has waiting for us. To learn more about Leading Second Care, visit https://leadingsecond.com/care

Take a behind-the-scenes look at Lead It Like You Own It with the author, Brandon Stewart, as he dives deep into what went into writing the book and shares the three key tension statements that Second Chair Leaders will face.

Leading Second is proud to announce the release of our first book, Lead It Like You Own It. Brandon sits down with Lindsay, Matt Martin (NorthRock Church, San Antonio, TX), and Jon Hatto (Hillsong Church, Toronto, Canada) to discuss the process Brandon walked through to write the book and how it can help every leader in ministry.

Brandon, Travis Marshall (Christian World Church, Richardson, TX), Jennifer Martin (NorthRock Church, San Antonio, TX), and Joseph Kelley (Discovery Church, Yukon, OK) jump back into the discussion of the six enemies of ownership. This week, they address the last three. We are challenged to examine what it truly means to take ownership in God’s house, starting with the most difficult person we’ll ever lead: ourselves.

We’re living in a time where ownership seems to be fading from our everyday lives, and the church isn’t immune to this cultural shift. Joining Brandon this week to address the first three enemies of ownership are Travis Marshall (Christian World Church, Richardson, TX), Jennifer Martin (NorthRock Church, San Antonio, TX), and Joseph Kelley (Discovery Church, Yukon, OK). This conversation exposes a critical reality: our world has traded sacrificial service for self-protective boundaries, and commitment has become a burden rather than a calling. But here’s the hope—this is actually our moment to be radically countercultural.

To kick off 2026, Brandon sits down with Dr. Christopher Palmer, Dean of the Barnett College of Ministry & Theology at Southeastern University, Lakeland, FL, to examine what truly defines a leader God can use. Beyond charisma, talent, and social media influence lies something far more enduring: character forged through testing. We're reminded that leadership isn't about the position we hold but about the person we'rebecoming. We're called to lead from vision, strength defined as steadiness, and character that's been tested in the fire.

What if grace doesn’t always feel good, but it’s exactly where you’re meant to be? In this episode, Brandon Stewart and Dillon Ritchie (CoastLife Church, Venice, FL) sit down with Pastor Julian Lowe (Oasis Church, Los Angeles, CA) for a powerful conversation about the difference between your grace zone and your personal preferences in leadership. Together, they unpack how grace and passion aren’t the same thing, why burying your wants is the path to true fulfillment, and how submission to authority can lead to freedom in ministry. If you’ve ever wrestled with calling, contentment, or comparison in your role, this conversation will bring clarity and conviction for the road ahead.

This month on the Leading Second Podcast, we are honored to welcome back Pastor Kevin Gerald to the conversation. In this new episode, Pastor Kevin and Brandon Stewart explore how teaming is not just a human strategy but a reflection of God’s design. This episode is packed with practical and spiritual insights for every leader. You will learn why teaming is sacred, why every team member matters, and why leaders who try to go it alone risk burnout and disconnected teams. Whether you lead a church team or serve in any capacity. This conversation will inspire you to embrace the blessing and responsibility of leading in unity and shared purpose.

To start Pastor Appreciation Month, Brandon is joined by Joseph Kelley (Discovery Church, Oklahoma, OK), Jennifer Martin (NorthRock Church, San Antonio, TX), and Alan Cooper (Soul Church, Norwich, UK), to challenge us to examine our hearts and attitudes towards leadership in the church. The conversation pushes us to consider: How might our churches and ministries thrive if we cultivated a culture of genuine honor?

In this episode, Pastor Charlotte Gambill unpacks the privilege and responsibility of holding up your pastor’s arms, embracing unseen moments, and carrying vision with humility and maturity. If you serve in the second chair, this conversation will strengthen your perspective and remind you: second chair is not second class.

Brandon and Leading Second bring some exciting announcements to the podcast. Join us for some behind-the-scenes fun. To be a part of the pre-sale for the book, visit: https://books.manuscripts.com/product/lead-it-like-you-own-it/ We've created an Episode Guide for you to follow along with the conversation, find discussion questions to use with your team, and discover additional resources to help you take your second-chair leadership to the next-level. Download this free resource at leadingsecond.com/podcast

Brandon, along with Dillon and Leydanis Ritchie (CoastLife Church, Venice, FL), sit down with Leading Second partner James Grout from OneChild. OneChild is a global community of child champions who partner with the local church to reach children in assistance-needed communities. Through initiatives like Hope Centers, we see how the local church becomes a beacon of light, offering not just physical support, but holistic development that nurtures the body, mind, and spirit. We've created an Episode Guide for you to follow along with the conversation, find discussion questions to use with your team, and discover additional resources to help you take your second-chair leadership to the next-level. Download this free resource at leadingsecond.com/podcast

This week, Brandon goes Inside the Second Chair with James Fam (Coastal Church, Vancouver, BC) to discover the mindsets, habits, and disciplines of great second chair leaders. Joined by Joseph Kelley (Discovery Church, Oklahoma City, OK), they discuss how, through abiding, we find refreshment, clarity, and a deeper trust in God’s plan for our church and our individual roles within it. We've created an Episode Guide for you to follow along with the conversation, find discussion questions to use with your team, and discover additional resources to help you take your second-chair leadership to the next-level. Download this free resource at leadingsecond.com/podcast

Brandon, along with Joseph Kelley (Discovery Church, Oklahoma City, OK) and Jodi Cameron (Champions Centre, Tacoma, WA), welcomes Jake Sweetman (Cathedral, Los Angeles, CA) to help guide us on how to align our actions with God's purpose, highlighting that organizational structure and spirit work hand-in-hand, just as Paul teaches in Ephesians. As we dive into this discussion, we're prompted to ask: Are we creating environments that welcome both spiritual fervor and effective organization? How can we courageously step into the changes God is calling us to make? We've created an Episode Guide for you to follow along with the conversation, find discussion questions to use with your team, and discover additional resources to help you take your second-chair leadership to the next-level. Download this free resource at leadingsecond.com/podcast

Brandon, Dillon Ritchie (CoastLife Church, Venice, FL), and Alan Pastian (River Valley Church, Minneapolis, MN) discuss the power of self-awareness and its impact on our leadership journey. The parable of the talents, where faithful servants multiplied their resources, reminds us that we're called to be good stewards of the people God has entrusted to us. Are we truly seeing the potential in others as Jesus did? We've created an Episode Guide for you to follow along with the conversation, find discussion questions to use with your team, and discover additional resources to help you take your second-chair leadership to the next-level. Download this free resource at leadingsecond.com/podcast

In ministry, we often encounter the need to 'level up' our leadership and personal growth. Brandon, Jennifer Martin (NorthRock Church, San Antonio, TX), and Joseph Kelley (Discovery Church, Oklahoma City, OK), sit down with Larry Brey (Elevation Church, Charlotte, NC) to discuss how skill development is crucial for an effective ministry. As we strive to level up, let's remember that our growth impacts not just us, but those we lead and influence. We've created an Episode Guide for you to follow along with the conversation, find discussion questions to use with your team, and discover additional resources to help you take your second-chair leadership to the next-level. Download this free resource at leadingsecond.com/podcast

This week, we explore the challenges and opportunities of leading in various contexts, including multi-site churches, family leadership transitions, and navigating cultural shifts. Brandon is joined by Tanisha Stromberg (Parallel Church, Okotoks, AB), Bryce Birmingham (Home Church, Calgary, AB), and Isaac Varty (Celebration Church, Edmonton, AB) for a conversation that emphasizes the importance of faithfulness, adaptability, and maintaining strong relationships in leadership roles. We've created an Episode Guide for you to follow along with the conversation, find discussion questions to use with your team, and discover additional resources to help you take your second-chair leadership to the next-level. Download this free resource at leadingsecond.com/podcast

What really happens when you step away from a thriving corporate career to follow the call of ministry? In this episode, Brandon, along with Dillon and Leydanis Ritchie (CoastLife Church, Venice, FL), sit down with Troy Pollock - entrepreneur, former executive, and now location pastor - for a candid conversation about the transition from marketplace to ministry. Troy shares the surprising lessons, transferable skills, and hidden challenges that don’t make the highlight reel. If you’re standing at the crossroads of career and calling, or wondering what it means to truly live out your purpose in any environment, this episode is for you. We've created an Episode Guide for you to follow along with the conversation, find discussion questions to use with your team, and discover additional resources to help you take your second-chair leadership to the next-level. Download this free resource at leadingsecond.com/podcast

In ministry, each seat of leadership carries its own unique weight and perspective. Brandon, along with Dillon and Leydanis Ritchie (CoastLife Church, Venice, FL) and Jason Parrish (The Well, Salt Lake City, UT) explore the dynamics between first and second chair leaders in ministry. Just as a driver must be aware of multiple factors beyond what a passenger sees, those in the first chair often carry responsibilities and insights that may not be immediately apparent to those in the second chair. We've created an Episode Guide for you to follow along with the conversation, find discussion questions to use with your team, and discover additional resources to help you take your second-chair leadership to the next-level. Download this free resource at leadingsecond.com/podcast

Trusting God’s timing isn’t always easy, especially when our desire for security clashes with the call to obedience. But longevity in ministry is built on faithfulness over the long haul - choosing to stay the course even when the future feels uncertain. In this episode, Brandon sits down with Joseph Kelley (Discovery Church, Oklahoma City, OK) and Brandon Catoe (Christ Fellowship Church, West Palm Beach, FL) to talk about the tension between waiting and stepping out in faith. When we learn to pause, pray, and trust, we often find that what God has ahead is bigger and better than we imagined. Faithfulness today leads to an impact that lasts a lifetime. We've created an Episode Guide for you to follow along with the conversation, find discussion questions to use with your team, and discover additional resources to help you take your second-chair leadership to the next-level. Download this free resource at leadingsecond.com/podcast

In our leadership journeys, we often encounter moments of uncertainty about our roles and the extent of our empowerment. This conversation delves into the heart of these challenges, reminding us that clarity is indeed king. Brandon, Jodi Cameron (Champions Centre, Tacoma, WA), Joseph Kelley (Discovery Church, Oklahoma City, OK), and Ken Hester (LifeFamily Church, Austin, TX) remind us that, just as Jesus spent time with His disciples, teaching through proximity and example, we too can grow in our leadership through a process of continuous learning and development. We've created an Episode Guide for you to follow along with the conversation, find discussion questions to use with your team, and discover additional resources to help you take your second-chair leadership to the next-level. Download this free resource at leadingsecond.com/podcast

This podcast episode celebrates the 200th episode of Leading Second, focusing on the importance and dignity of second chair leadership in ministry. Brandon, Tracy Keene from StrongPoint Church in Columbus, OH; Dillon and Leydanis Ritchie along with their pastor, Jason Warman, from CoastLife Church in Venice FL; and Dan Lord from Gracelife Chapel in St. Louis, MO; reflect on leading in an uncommon way from the second chair. We've created an Episode Guide for you to follow along with the conversation, find discussion questions to use with your team, and discover additional resources to help you take your second-chair leadership to the next-level. Download this free resource at leadingsecond.com/podcast

Brandon sits down with some of the Leading Second team in a discussion to explore the challenges of dealing with division and strife within church ministry teams. Dillon Ritchie (Coastlife Church, Venice, FL), Jennifer Martin (NorthRock Church, San Antonio, TX), and Dom Gianino (Elevation Church, Rock Hill, SC) emphasize the importance of addressing conflicts promptly, maintaining team alignment with the church’s vision, and the necessity of having difficult conversations to maintain a healthy team culture. We've created an Episode Guide for you to follow along with the conversation, find discussion questions to use with your team, and discover additional resources to help you take your second-chair leadership to the next-level. Download this free resource at leadingsecond.com/podcast

In our rapidly changing world, we’re faced with an exciting yet challenging technological revolution: artificial intelligence. As people of faith, we’re called to navigate this new landscape with wisdom and discernment. This week Brandon, along with Dillion and Leydanis Ritchie from CoastLife Church in Venice FL, sit down with Michael Whittle, the founder of Pulpit AI to discuss AI’s positive and negative impacts on the church. We've created an Episode Guide for you to follow along with the conversation, find discussion questions to use with your team, and discover additional resources to help you take your second-chair leadership to the next-level. Download this free resource at leadingsecond.com/podcast

In this powerful discussion, the true essence of faithfulness in leadership is discussed. Brandon, Joseph Kelley from Discovery Church in Oklahoma City, OK, and Devon Torres from The Rock of KC in Kansas City, MO, sit down with Marcus Mecum, Lead Pastor of 7 Hill’s Church in Florence, KY, to help us examine our hearts, realign our priorities, and recommit to serving God and others with authenticity and love. We've created an Episode Guide for you to follow along with the conversation, find discussion questions to use with your team, and discover additional resources to help you take your second-chair leadership to the next-level. Download this free resource at leadingsecond.com/podcast

In the Season 7 finale of the Leading Second Podcast, we discuss how we can better ourselves and our teams by taking ownership of our lives, both in and out of ministry. Start 2025 with strength as you realize It Starts With Me. We've created an Episode Guide for you to follow along with the conversation, find discussion questions to use with your team, and discover additional resources to help you take your second-chair leadership to the next-level. Download this free resource at leadingsecond.com/podcast.

Join us for our last Inside the Second Chair conversation for Season 7 with Dr. Manny Arango, Founder and Lead Pastor at The Garden in Houston, TX, and Larry Brey, Executive Pastor at Elevation Church in North Carolina. Brandon sits down for a second interview with Larry and Manny to dive deeper into leading from the Second Chair. We've created an Episode Guide for you to follow along with the conversation, find discussion questions to use with your team, and discover additional resources to help you take your second-chair leadership to the next-level. Download this free resource at leadingsecond.com/podcast

Join us as Brandon sits down with Jim Wideman, author and Executive Ministries Pastor at Conduit Church in Franklin, Tennessee. With almost 50 years in ministry, Jim provides unique wisdom and insight into leading from the Second Chair. We've created an Episode Guide for you to follow along with the conversation, find discussion questions to use with your team, and discover additional resources to help you take your second chair leadership to the next level. Download this free resource at leadingsecond.com/podcast.

Brandon, Jason Warman, Lead Pastor at CoastLife Church in Venice, FL, and Josh Bingle, Lead Pastor at Genesis Church in Spokane, WA, came back together for another discussion on how we as leaders in the church are to navigate and lead in the world and culture we are currently in. We've created an Episode Guide for you to follow along with the conversation, find discussion questions to use with your team, and discover additional resources to help you take your second-chair leadership to the next-level. Download this free resource at leadingsecond.com/podcast

Larry Brey, Executive Pastor at Elevation Church in North Carolina, sits down with Jacob Williamson, Executive Pastor at Celebration Church in Texas, to talk about leading in the Second Chair. We've created an Episode Guide for you to follow along with the conversation, find discussion questions to use with your team, and discover additional resources to help you take your second-chair leadership to the next-level. Download this free resource at leadingsecond.com/podcast

As leaders in ministry, we are called to use our gifts to advance the Kingdom. We all have a part to play so we must work to understand what seat we are called to in this moment and know when (or if) we are to move to a new calling. Brandon, Pace Hartfield from One Place Church in Hayden, ID, Nathan Green from Skybreak Church in College Station, TX, and Matt Martin from NorthRock Church in San Antonio, TX sit down to discuss the unique callings of the First and Second Chair. We've created an Episode Guide for you to follow along with the conversation, find discussion questions to use with your team, and discover additional resources to help you take your second-chair leadership to the next-level. Download this free resource at leadingsecond.com/podcast

We continue with the Inside the Second Chair series by hearing from Jody Franke from Keystone Church in Keller, TX. Brandon keys in on Jody’s close relationship with his pastor and how that relationship has impacted his walk in ministry. We've created an Episode Guide for you to follow along with the conversation, find discussion questions to use with your team, and discover additional resources to help you take your second-chair leadership to the next-level. Download this free resource at leadingsecond.com/podcast

This week, we jump back into the Inside the Second Chair series. Brandon is joined by Abram Gomez from Cross Church in Texas to discuss Abram’s unique perspective of serving in the second chair. We've created an Episode Guide for you to follow along with the conversation, find discussion questions to use with your team, and discover additional resources to help you take your second-chair leadership to the next-level. Download this free resource at leadingsecond.com/podcast

In this episode, Brandon and Lindsay Stewart (Leading Second Pastors), Dillon and Leys Ritchie (Coastlife Church, Venice, FL), and Jodi Cameron (Champions Centre, Tacoma, WA) sat down during the Team Church Conference 2024 to answer questions about leading from the Second Chair. We've created an Episode Guide for you to follow along with the conversation, find discussion questions to use with your team, and discover additional resources to help you take your second-chair leadership to the next-level. Download this free resource at leadingsecond.com/podcast

Gen Z and the Church can be known to have an interesting dynamic. As church leaders, we must understand this generation and learn how to steward them well. Brandon sits down with Elijah Lamb, a traveling speaker and teaching team member at Cathedral Church in Los Angeles as well as with TheosU to work to better understand this generation and how to lead them. We've created an Episode Guide for you to follow along with the conversation, find discussion questions to use with your team, and discover additional resources to help you take your second-chair leadership to the next-level. Download this free resource at leadingsecond.com/podcast.

Continuing in our series, Inside the Second Chair, we hear from Nicole Moore, Location Pastor at Champions Centre in Tacoma, WA as she brings insight into the rhythms, disciplines, and practices that shape her Second Chair leadership. We've created an Episode Guide for you to follow along with the conversation, find discussion questions to use with your team, and discover additional resources to help you take your second-chair leadership to the next-level. Download this free resource at leadingsecond.com/podcast

Brandon is joined by Dr. Manny Arango to discuss what Biblical Literacy is, how church leaders can and should be growing in it, and how the church benefits from strong Biblical Literacy in today’s culture. We've created an Episode Guide for you to follow along with the conversation, find discussion questions to use with your team, and discover additional resources to help you take your second-chair leadership to the next-level. Download this free resource at leadingsecond.com/podcast

Ep 184: As Second Chair Leaders, we are leading while also following. This week, Brandon, Lindsay Stewart, and Larry Brey discuss having a healthy, thriving, trust-anchored relationship with the person we follow and how important it is for success and longevity in ministry. We've created an Episode Guide for you to follow along with the conversation, find discussion questions to use with your team, and discover additional resources to help you take your second-chair leadership to the next-level. Download this free resource at leadingsecond.com/podcast

There are tensions going on in our world. It is vital for all of us to speak Kingdom truth in all situations. Brandon, Jason Warman, Lead Pastor at CoastLife Church in Venice, FL, and Josh Bingle, Lead Pastor at Genesis Church in Spokane, WA, discuss how leaders in the Church can rise up and speak truth to a culture that is working to devalue the Church’s opinions. We've created an Episode Guide for you to follow along with the conversation, find discussion questions to use with your team, and discover additional resources to help you take your second-chair leadership to the next-level. Download this free resource at leadingsecond.com/podcast

The Church needs uncommon leaders.This week, we hear from our founder, Brandon Stewart, as he shares what it takes to lead in today's culture and breaks down the four keys to uncommon leadership. To learn more on today's topic, stream our course UNCOMMON by Brandon Stewart on Leading Second+ today. We've created an Episode Guide for you to follow along with the conversation, find discussion questions to use with your team, and discover additional resources to help you take your second-chair leadership to the next-level. Download this free resource at leadingsecond.com/podcast.

Brandon is joined by Jodi Cameron, Teaching Pastor at Champion Centre in Washington, to continue the Kingdom Centered Leader summer series. They discuss the importance of having a Biblical Worldview, how to know a leader’s worldview, and how the Church must rise up in helping people develop a Biblical worldview. To learn more on this topic, stream our course Biblical Worldview I: Leading with Clarity by Jodi Cameron on Leading Second+ today. We've created an Episode Guide for you to follow along with the conversation, find discussion questions to use with your team, and discover additional resources to help you take your second-chair leadership to the next-level. Download this free resource at leadingsecond.com/podcast

We start our summer series, the Kingdom Centered Leader, with Kevin Gerald, founder and Lead Pastor of Champions Centre in Washington. This discussion centers around how the two colliding kingdoms we navigate through in ministry affect our worldview and how we lead those around us. We've created an Episode Guide for you to follow along with the conversation, find discussion questions to use with your team, and discover additional resources to help you take your second-chair leadership to the next-level. Download this free resource at leadingsecond.com/podcast

Jabin Chavez, founder and Lead Pastor at City Light Church in Las Vegas, NV, gives us an inside look at the heart of a lead pastor. In this conversation, we discuss the weight of being the lead pastor, different ways his team has focused on running with the vision of the church well, and the alignment of a Second Chair Leader. We've created an Episode Guide for you to follow along with the conversation, find discussion questions to use with your team, and discover additional resources to help you take your second-chair leadership to the next-level. Download this free resource at leadingsecond.com/podcast

This week Larry Brey, Associate Pastor at Elevation Church, sits down with Temi Pope, Chief of Staff at Union Church in Maryland. They have a powerful conversation on calling vs career, facing overwhelming seasons in ministry, and staying in alignment with your pastors. This episode is part of our series, Inside the Second Chair, where we are diving in with different leaders to discover the secret sauce that keeps leaders focused and in the game. We've created an Episode Guide for you to follow along with the conversation, find discussion questions to use with your team, and discover additional resources to help you take your second-chair leadership to the next-level. Download this free resource at leadingsecond.com/podcast

Developing team members is vital in leadership. However, it can be a daunting task to begin initiating a system for this. This week, we hear from Phil Klein, founder of focus412, about the importance of incorporating leadership development into an organization and how to begin that process. We've created an Episode Guide for you to follow along with the conversation, find discussion questions to use with your team, and discover additional resources to help you take your second-chair leadership to the next-level. Download this free resource at leadingsecond.com/podcast

There’s something about intentionality that moves us forward. This week we are joined by Leading Second Coaching Group Coaches Dillon Ritchie, Operations Pastor at CoastLIfe Church in Venice, FL; Kelly Goff, Location Pastor at The Rock Church in Phoenix, AZ; and Jon Hatto, Campus Pastor at Hillsong Church in Toronto, Canada. The coaches respond to questions asked by the Leading Second Tribe on how to be intentional in several aspects of ministry. We've created an Episode Guide for you to follow along with the conversation, find discussion questions to use with your team, and discover additional resources to help you take your second-chair leadership to the next-level. Download this free resource at leadingsecond.com/podcast

Join us for another behind the scenes conversation on leading from the Second Chair. This week we are joined by Vance Roush, Executive Pastor at Vive Church in California and founder of Overflow. We take a new look at Second Chair leadership as a bi-vocational leader. We've created an Episode Guide for you to follow along with the conversation, find discussion questions to use with your team, and discover additional resources to help you take your second-chair leadership to the next-level. Download this free resource at leadingsecond.com/podcast

Church planting is not for the faint of heart. This week we get the opportunity to hear from Noah Herrin, Lead Pastor of Way Church in Nashville, TN, and Connor Crumpton, Executive Pastor at Way Church, as they provide a unique viewpoint of how they work together as First and Second Chair Leaders to build this new space for their community. This discussion is insightful for anyone serving in the Second Chair, not just for church planters. We've created an Episode Guide for you to follow along with the conversation, find discussion questions to use with your team, and discover additional resources to help you take your second-chair leadership to the next-level. Download this free resource at leadingsecond.com/podcast

This week, we are joined by Philip Engle, Senior Coach and General Manager at focus412, as we continue our series Inside the Second Chair. Philip offers a unique perspective on ministry as he represents both ministry and the corporate world. We talk about creating healthy leadership habits, being a trustworthy leader, and defining what success looks like in the second chair. We've created an Episode Guide for you to follow along with the conversation, find discussion questions to use with your team, and discover additional resources to help you take your second-chair leadership to the next-level. Download this free resource at leadingsecond.com/podcast