Let's Talk about CBT- Members Matters

Your hosts Rachel Handley, Steph Curnow and Helen Macdonald are back with your monthly member updates from across BABCP. Helen introduces you to Erin Graham, BABCP's Accreditation and Registration Liaison Manager. You'll hear how Erin and her team work to support members through the accreditation and registration process, the challenges of growing demand, and her personal commitment to advocating for wellbeing practitioners. In 'Spotlight On', Steph chats with James Gregory and Helena Drury from the Hoarding Special Interest Group, exploring their work to raise awareness of hoarding disorder, build CBT therapists' confidence in working with this client group, and develop accessible treatment pathways across the UK. In 'Ask Me Anything', Helen responds to a member's concern about being scheduled back-to-back clients with no time to write notes or address risk queries. She talks through the clinical, ethical, and wellbeing considerations that make protected time between sessions not just important, but essential. This podcast is made for you, the BABCP Members, so why not get in touch and send your questions to our Senior Clinical Advisor for 'Ask Me Anything' or tell us what's important to you for your CBT practice. Email us: [email protected] Links and resources: Join a Special Interest Group (SIG): https://babcp.com/Membership/Special-Interest-Groups Find a CBT supervisor on the CBT Register: https://www.cbtregisteruk.com Check out our other podcasts Let's Talk About CBT, Practice Matters, and Research Matters in our podcasts hub: https://babcp.com/Podcasts Contact us: [email protected] New episodes every month. If you subscribe now, you'll get every episode to your feed!  

Your hosts, Rachel Handley, Steph Curnow and Helen Macdonald, are back with your monthly member updates from across BABCP. Rachel introduces you to Angela Dingwall, the BABCP's Course Accreditation Manager. You'll hear how the values of the BABCP are being woven into courses and CBT training in different institutions across the country. Angela shares how her team ensures trainees are getting the best in CBT training and what the future of competency measures in CBT looks like. In 'Spotlight On', Steph chats with Cat Mercer from the Neurodiversity Special Interest Group, highlighting their work, upcoming events, and promoting NDeavour- a peer support space for neurodivergent therapists. This time on 'Ask Me Anything', Senior Clinical Advisor Helen answers a member's voice note about dealing with a therapy space that feels too small. She talks through practical guidance and best practices, helping you think about how to choose a space that works for both you and your clients, and enables high-quality CBT. This Podcast is made for you, the BABCP Members, so why not get in touch and send your questions to our Senior Clinical Advisor, for 'Ask Me Anything' or tell us what's important to you for your CBT practice. Email us: [email protected]                               Links and resources: More information about Reviewing our Standards of Conduct, Performance and Ethics can be found here Join a Special Interest Group (SIG): https://babcp.com/Membership/Special-Interest-Groups Find a CBT supervisor on the CBT Register: https://www.cbtregisteruk.com More information on our Journals Special Issues can be found here  Check out our other podcasts Let's Talk About CBT, Practice Matters, and Research Matters in our podcasts hub: https://babcp.com/Podcasts Contact us: [email protected] New episodes every month – If you subscribe now, you'll get every episode to your feed!  

Members Matters brings you updates from across BABCP with your hosts, Steph Curnow, Helen Macdonald and Rachel Handley. This month, there are plenty of opportunities for members to get involved as the organisation continues to grow and develop. You'll hear what's new across BABCP, from team growth and new hires, to updated good practice guides.  Plans are afoot for the 2026 Annual Conference, and Helen even reveals how she made it into January's edition of Hello! magazine. Rachel speaks to Michelle Livesey, Head of Membership Services, one of the key people working behind the scenes for BABCP members. Michelle talks about how the membership offer is evolving with more support and where you can play a more active role. Steph explores exciting developments within the Perinatal Special Interest Group with Beth ​Chapman including how the group is developing education and support for therapists working with fertility treatment, pregnancy, and the first two years of parenthood. In "Ask Me Anything", Senior Clinical Advisor Helen Macdonald talks through the updates to the BABCP Standards of Conduct, Performance and Ethics, that are a fundamental part of your membership that informs everyday practice. Helen explains what the review process involves and why member voices are essential in informing future standards. Find out how you can stay connected with the evolving landscape of CBT and catch valuable member tips for beating the January blues. Members Matters always wants to hear from you! Send your questions to our Senior Clinical Advisor, Helen, and tell us what you do outside of being a therapist, we'd love to get to know our members better. Email us: [email protected] Links and resources: More information about Reviewing our Standards of Conduct, Performance and Ethics can be found here Join a Special Interest Group (SIG): https://babcp.com/Membership/Special-Interest-Groups Find a CBT supervisor on the CBT Register: https://www.cbtregisteruk.com More information on our Journals Special Issues can be found here  Check out our other podcasts Let's Talk About CBT, Practice Matters, and Research Matters in our podcasts hub: https://babcp.com/Podcasts Contact us: [email protected] New episodes every month – If you subscribe now, you'll get every episode to your feed!  

In this episode of Members Matters, hosts Rachel Handley, Steph Curnow and Helen Macdonald bring you updates from across BABCP and introduce two in depth conversations from the heart of the organisation. Helen is joined by Patricia Canedo, Head of External Affairs, who explains her role in shaping BABCP's public voice. They explore how policy, media and advocacy work can influence access to CBT, support members across the five nations, and raise public understanding of evidence-based therapy. Patricia also shares how members can get involved and help shape future priorities. Steph then speaks with Richard Thwaites, Editor in Chief of The Cognitive Behaviour Therapist, about the journal's ethos, audiences, and commitment to supporting first time and practitioner authors. Richard reflects on special issues, misconceptions papers, and the importance of clinically useful research. The episode closes with Helen answering a member question on how to decide whether work falls outside your scope of practice, offering clear and practical guidance grounded in professional standards. Plus, we want to hear from you! Let's us know your tips and tricks to help beat the January blues… Email us with your thoughts [email protected] Links and resources: More information about Reviewing our Standards of Conduct, Performance and Ethics can be found here Join a Special Interest Group (SIG) More information on our Journals Special Issues can be found here  Check out our other podcasts Let's Talk About CBT, Practice Matters, and Research Matters in our Podcasts Hub New episodes every month – subscribe now so you don't miss out.

In this episode of Members Matters, we explore how CBT practitioners are responding to the realities of the climate crisis. The Climate Change SIG joins us to discuss their work supporting therapists and clients experiencing climate related distress, and they introduce their new practice guide designed to help clinicians feel more confident in this area. We also hear from Colin Hughes about the unique context in which IABCP operates across both Northern Ireland and Ireland, and the challenges and opportunities facing CBT therapists there. Plus, our Senior Clinical Advisor answers an important question from the mailbag about what to do if the police request access to therapy notes. Join your hosts: Rachel Handley, Helen Macdonald and Steph Curnow guide you through this month's insights to the people and practices of the BABCP. In This Episode: BABCP News & UpdatesRachel, Steph and Helen share what's new in the BABCP as well as the events you can get involved with for the rest of the year. Introducing… CBT on the Island of Ireland, Colin Hughes from IABCP talks to Rachel about the recent changes in law that affecting practitioners and why Ireland's healthcare system and history has created a resilient and adaptable workforce. Spotlight on, Creating the EABCT Annual ConferenceSteph Curnow introduces you to Steve Killick and Catherine Parker from the Climate Change Special Interest Group, you'll hear about their recently released guide on why climate change matters in your practice and how you could see it impacting clients in the near future. Ask Me Anything What if you're in a scenario where the police ask for your notes? Senior Clinical Advisor Helen Macdonald tackles this particular question: how you can respond when asked for your notes, what's in the client's best interest, and how you should be taking notes in the first place. Podcast Picks, The BABCP have plenty more podcasts you can listen to this month: Let's Talk About CBT – Sally Tribe talks about how menopause influences wellbeing and how CBT can help during this stage of life.  Research Matters -   Steph Curnow chats with clinical psychologist Katherine Newman-Taylor about her recently published paper Ten Misconceptions about CBT for psychosis Practice Matters – Prof Zindel Segal looks at the mindfulness practices creating change and the origins of MBCT Links and resources: Read the Climate Change SIG's guide: Changing the Climate Conversation: A CBT approach to addressing the crisis here Join a Special Interest Group (SIG): https://babcp.com/Membership/Special-Interest-Groups Find a CBT supervisor on the CBT Register: https://www.cbtregisteruk.com More information on our Journals Special Issues can be found here  Check out our other podcasts Let's Talk About CBT, Practice Matters, and Research Matters in our podcasts hub: https://babcp.com/Podcasts Contact us: [email protected] New episodes every month – subscribe now so you don't miss out.  

What did you take away from this year's Annual Conference? This month, Members Matters brings you reflections from conference delegates, insights from Senior Clinical Advisor Helen Macdonald, and a spotlight on the Mindfulness SIG with Anna-Maria Newell. Your monthly Members Matters update is your place for BABCP news, meeting key members, and getting practical guidance from the CBT community with your hosts: Rachel Handley, Steph Curnow, and Helen Macdonald. In This Episode: BABCP News & UpdatesRachel and Steph reflect in this episode about what happened in Glasgow at the recent EABCT Conference, and you can hear from some of your fellow members as Steph found out what attendees were learning and enjoying most over the week.  Introducing… A familiar voice, Helen Macdonald, get to know your Senior Clinical Advisor a little better, as Rachel finds out what keeps Helen busy in the role and what goals she's working toward for the BABCP and you, the members. Spotlight on, MindfulnessThis month, Steph speaks to Anna-Maria Newell, who introduces the Mindfulness Special Interest Group (SIG). She shares the group's vision for creating space where members can embody mindfulness and bring it into their CBT practice. Hear about how you can take part in their regular 'Breathe and Eat' meetings, a lunchtime pause to reflect, recharge, and network with intent. Links and resources: Join a Special Interest Group (SIG): https://babcp.com/Membership/Special-Interest-Groups Find a CBT supervisor on the CBT Register: https://www.cbtregisteruk.com More information on our Journals Special Issues can be found here  Check out our other podcasts Let's Talk About CBT, Practice Matters, and Research Matters in our podcasts hub: https://babcp.com/Podcasts Contact us: [email protected] New episodes every month – subscribe now so you don't miss out.

Want to make the most of this year's EABCT Conference? This episode of Members Matters, brings you a preview of what's in store and how the event comes together. Meet your BABCP President, Stirling Moorey, and find out what's happening in Glasgow from 3–6 September as the Annual Conference draws near. Join your hosts: Rachel Handley, Helen Macdonald and Steph Curnow for your monthly update on what's new at the BABCP. In This Episode: BABCP News & Updates Rachel, Steph and Helen share their insights on the upcoming EABCT Conference, some of the sessions you can look forward to, plus tips on navigating the event and making valuable connections with fellow members. Introducing… Your new BABCP President, Stirling Moorey, joins Rachel to talk about his vision for the association, the challenges and opportunities in leading the organisation and how he sees the profession evolving. Spotlight on, Creating the EABCT Annual Conference Steph Curnow welcomes Jo Daniels and Simon Blackwell from the National Conference Program Advisory Group (formerly the BABCP Scientific Committee) to share what goes into creating a conference of this scale, including the presentations, workshops, networking opportunities, and themes that delegates can look forward to, both in Glasgow and online. Ask Me Anything Senior Clinical Advisor Helen Macdonald takes on more of your questions as she looks at why safeguarding is important for BABCP members, and how new training initiatives aim to strengthen standards across the profession. Podcast Picks, The BABCP have plenty more podcasts you can listen to this month: ·        Let's Talk About CBT- How can low-intensity CBT interventions have a big impact? ·         Research Matters - Katherine Wakelin covers moral injury and PTSD ·        Practice Matters-  A look at perinatal depression and anxiety, with Prof Heather O'Mahen and Dr Sarah Healy Links and resources: Find out more about the conference: https://eabct2025.org/  Check out our other podcasts Let's Talk About CBT, Practice Matters, and Research Matters in our podcasts hub: https://babcp.com/Podcasts Contact us: [email protected] New episodes every month – subscribe now so you don't miss out.

What's changing at the BABCP, and what does it mean for you? Your monthly instalment of Members Matters brings updates on digital developments, fresh guidance on registration and accreditation, and a spotlight on our WOMGEND SIG with your hosts: Rachel Handley, Helen Macdonald and Steph Curnow. In This Episode: BABCP News & UpdatesRachel and Helen bring you the latest on the launch of the new BABCP website and member database and introduce the new registration route for Mental Health & Wellbeing Practitioners (MHWPs). Introducing… Chief Accreditation Officer and Registrar Rebecca Light joins Rachel to talk about the key differences between registration and accreditation, the evolving role of accreditation, and what she does for her mental health while balancing all of her roles. Spotlight on, Gender Equality and Men's Mental Health Steph Curnow welcomes Amy Beddows and Mat Wilding to introduce the Women's Equality and Gender Diversity Special Interest Group (WOMGEND). They explain the group's work, dealing with gender-based violence, and why they're encouraging men to show up for gender equality matters in CBT. Ask Me AnythingAnother of your questions from the mailbag, Senior Clinical Advisor Helen Macdonald, explains what kinds of member queries fall outside BABCP's remit and where to find the support you need. Podcast Picks, there's lots more to hear from the BABCP. Here are the podcasts you can listen to this month: Let's Talk About CBT – Accessing CBT in 'low data' areas of the world Practice Matters – Getting to the heart of CBT with Dr Judith Beck. Links and resources: Join a Special Interest Group (SIG): https://babcp.com/Membership/Special-Interest-Groups Find a CBT supervisor on the CBT Register: https://www.cbtregisteruk.com More information on our Journals Special Issues can be found here  Check out our other podcasts Let's Talk About CBT, Practice Matters, and Research Matters in our podcasts hub: https://babcp.com/Podcasts Contact us: [email protected] New episodes every month – subscribe now so you don't miss out.

Your monthly Members Matters update is packed with news of what's going on at the BABCP, interviews with our key members, and practical guidance from the CBT community from your hosts; Rachel Handley, Steph Curnow and Helen Macdonald. In This Episode: BABCP News & Updates Helen Macdonald gives you fresh perspectives on ethical and inclusive CBT practice as she shares updates on anti-racist and anti-oppressive practice webinars and gives a sneak peek into the upcoming EABCT conference. Introducing… Past President Saiqa Naz Helen welcomes Saiqa to the podcast as they reflect on her presidency, key achievements, and the work she did to support underrepresented groups in the CBT field. Spotlight on, Mental Health Wellbeing Practitioner Registration Erin Graham, the Accreditation and Registration Liaison Manager joins Steph Curnow to shed light on the importance of registration for Mental Health Wellbeing Practitioners (MHWP) for public protection and professional recognition. Ask Me AnythingSenior Clinical Advisor Helen Macdonald answers a listener question: When might CBT not be the right fit for a client? Podcast Picks, hear what other podcasts are coming up this month from the BABCP Let's Talk About CBT – featuring Tafi and Sherrie Research Matters – with insights from Kerry Young Practice Matters- Augmented Depression Therapy with Barney Dunn Links and resources: Join a Special Interest Group (SIG): https://babcp.com/Membership/Special-Interest-Groups Find a CBT supervisor on the CBT Register: https://www.cbtregisteruk.com More information on our Journals Special Issues can be found here  Check out our other podcasts Let's Talk About CBT, Practice Matters, and Research Matters in our podcasts hub: https://babcp.com/Podcasts Contact us: [email protected] New episodes every month – subscribe now so you don't miss out. Credits: This podcast was produced by Purposeful Podcasts Music is Autmn Coffee by Bosnow from Uppbeat Music from #Uppbeat (free for Creators!): https://uppbeat.io/t/bosnow/autumn-coffee License code: 3F32NRBYH67P5MIF Transcript: Rachel: Hello and welcome to Members Matters, the podcast made exclusively for BABCP members. I'm Rachel Handley, and I'm here with my co-host, Steph Curnow and Helen Macdonald. In each episode of this podcast, we'll bring you the latest news and information from members. You'll get to meet some of the key figures in the organization in our introducing section, and you'll get the chance to get involved too and ask me anything. Our senior clinical advisor, Helen Macdonald is going to take any question you'd like to ask. You'll also hear a bit more about the new Mental Health Wellbeing Practitioner registration in our spotlight on session. But first up, hello to my co-host, Steph and Helen. How are you both? Steph: Hi, I'm good. Thanks. So it's been really busy here at BABCP. How about you, Helen? Helen: Yeah, I'd agree with you. It's been busy. I guess some of the things that I've been up to in my role here is I've been part of a working party where we're reviewing our Standards of Conduct, Performance and Ethics at the moment, which is a big piece of work and so far we've been working with the Standards And Ethics Committee and we'll be bringing proposed updates and asking for feedback from all our members in the next few months while we try to make sure that what we are doing is really up to date and consistent with our values and ethical principles. So that's one of the pieces of work in other things that I've been up to thinking about our series of anti-racist, anti-oppressive practice webinars that have just started with the wonderful Leila Lawton and Rani Griffiths on Friday, and we've got a whole series coming up for you. And then other things, we responded to the Supreme Court ruling on gender and put out a statement, particularly supporting people who are trans, non-binary or intersex in terms of the impact that the ruling might have on people. Then finally, the other thing is that we are coming up soon to the EABCT conference, the European Association for Behavioural and Cognitive Therapies Conference that we are hosting in Glasgow in September, and all of our members are by being a member of BABCP they're also members of EABCT, and there's a really exciting program developing with experts from all over, speaking on such a variety of things. There'll be something for everybody. Rachel: So there's two for the price of one there. EABCT, and BABCP membership. And please come to the conference. It's going to be fantastic up in Glasgow. There's a lot going on, Helen, in the, in this space of diversity, but also kind of all these kind of ongoing developments around ethical practice, et cetera. So that. Sounds like again, you haven't been sitting with your feet up. How about you, Steph? How, how are things going in the, the world of the journals? Steph: Yeah, journals are good. They've been very busy at the moment. We've had a bumper month for submissions lately. Not just to our special issues, but also just general papers coming in as well. So thank you to everyone who's been submitting to us. I think people are desperate to get things off their desk before they finish for the summer. So it's keeping us very busy. We've also been really busy working on the new BABCP website that is coming out. Hopefully it should be out before this podcast is. Um, and yeah, so it's really exciting, but there's a lot of work going on behind the scenes to get that all up and ready and running. Rachel: So we're all ready to surf our away to that website and see all the, the brand new shop window for BABCP. Looking forward to that very much. Okay. So should we get into the podcast? First up is our introducing section where we'll be bringing you an in-depth conversation with some of the key people here at the BABCP. In this episode, Helen's going to be chatting to Saiqa Naz, our past president. Helen, it must have been really interesting to talk with Saiqa cause she was a president who forged a new path in many directions, both personally and professionally in the role. Helen: Yes, absolutely. I mean, it's a real pleasure always to talk to Saiqa and she does indeed, pioneers new pathways. She comes from a background, which unfortunately is, is perhaps unusual in our profession in the sense of coming from a working class background as a British Muslim from the northwest of England, coming from her personal involvement in community supporting and advocating for her community and that leading her into a career in mental health where she's eventually become our president of BABCP at the same time as being a clinical psychology student, which really speaks to her motivation and determination. And along that way, she's, for example, been the first chair of our Equalities and Culture Sig, our first recipient of the Engagement and Involvement Award. So she's a real example of someone who has overcome a number of different intersecting barriers to success and has succeeded anyway. Rachel: So let's hear from Saiqa and I'm particularly fascinated to hear what she does in her spare time given all of that Helen: Saiqa, would you like to introduce yourself? Saiqa: Hi Helen. I'm Saiqa Naz, past president of BABCP. So I completed that role in November 2024, so I'm not that long ago. I'm still on the board until September. I'm a CBT therapist. I'm also clinical psychologist. Helen: We're absolutely delighted to have you with us today, and I just wondered whether you would tell us a little bit about your reflections now that you've completed two years as president and it's a little bit further down the line since you became past president. Saiqa: In hindsight, I think it was a bit of a brave move. There's no, no regrets. And if I was presented with the same option again, I'd be like, yeah, I'm going to do this. So yeah, I think that's what I'd say. Sometimes we, we do things where we take the plunge, let's call it, but nothing can prepare you for the role. Helen: Okay. So when you say take the plunge, it really felt like you were in the deep end some of the time. Saiqa: Yeah. And there was things happening that we couldn't have foreseen to be fair. And it was those moments like, oh, okay. Didn't see that one coming. But then that's, that's the thing about leadership. You have curve balls thrown at you from different angles sometimes, sometimes at once, and you have to try and battle with them or manage them. So it was an eventful presidency for sure. Helen: Okay, so I wonder if I can ask you a bit about things that stand out to you about perhaps things that you are really proud of, either proud of our members, proud of the association, and proud of your work while you were president of BABCP. Saiqa: I think in terms of representation, we've not had many female past presidents, so I think on that front, I was probably the youngest, you know, I probably wasn't one of the few that wasn't a professor towards the end of their careers. So actually I, in terms of the intersectionality and what I was bringing, I think I was bringing a lot into the role, I think. But in terms of, you know, and I was thinking about this today and I was thinking, you know, BABCP, it is gone through a huge transformation and there's things happening around NHS England at the minute, you know, the media and lots of organizations are going through a transformation, and I think the BABCP have done it really well. If I may say, some staff and, you know, credit to the staff. We made some quick decision, bold decisions. We try to drive the association forward and staff are on board with that change. And I really would like to thank the staff and the membership. COVID got in the way and it created disconnect, I think not just within our association, I think in society. In general, the members like coming back into the room and getting more involved with the association. We had some tricky conversations about the relationship between the membership and the association and what does that look like, and those conversations are still ongoing. So trying to bring the membership back in. I think we had some conversations, didn't we, about a year ago, and I was like, no, I want to focus on the membership now. So yeah, so what did I bring to it? I think I've brought a level of energy, enthusiasm, and drive that actually we've got to move on quite quickly. And be at the forefront of conversations in the media, research, clinical skills, and actually continue to be leaders in that field and think about succession planning for the next generation as well. Helen: I mean, that's fantastic to reflect on just how much happened in the two years that you were president and still happening, and I just wonder if anything stands out in your mind as the most fun or the most informative event that you attended while you were president? Saiqa: The bits I really loved was the connection with the staff, so popping into the office. The staff are lovely. I remember going to a staff team meeting and I was just going go, right, I'm going to say this to them. And I just saw a bunch of lovely faces on the screen. I think I've shared this story before and my heart just bit melted and I, I just, yeah, I just remember Alistair's smile and Ann was there, and it's about, so, you know, there's a lovely workforce that we have, but members and the public don't get to see 'cause obviously they're working hard behind the association and the association's expanded. So there's that moment and that taught me just like pipe down Saiqa, but I think, yeah, it was just it. I think that was one of my defining things, but also the conferences are just amazing. You know, after you've been apart and then you come back together. So although I'd have a had a stressful first year and those things happening, and we recruited a new CEO and we added lay directors to the board as well, those things made a difference. But I just remember being at conference and going, today, I'm not president, you know, I'm going to just enjoy my time with my membership, and, and that was it. So there was moments like that that I really hold onto, I think. Helen: So in the midst of a lot of rapid change and some really significant challenges that connecting with people, both the members and the staff has been part of the highlights for you. Saiqa: Absolutely. It's all about, I always say it's all about the membership from the public protecting the public. Helen: So Stirling has now been president for a few months, and one of  the things that I was going to ask you about was whether you had any words of wisdom or particular things that you would like to say to somebody who's stepping into the President's shoes? You've already said that it was very much taking the plunge, going in the deep end. Is there anything that you would really want to say to somebody who's recently become the president or might be the next one? Saiqa: Absolutely. I think it is a brilliant opportunity to serve the membership and it's a brilliant opportunity cause my fingerprints are all over this association. Literally, you know, everywhere policies and governance and strategy, and we're working on the comms, we are doing men's mental health, you know, so there's so much that I've been involved in and it's a real opportunity. Bring your creative streak. I think even in the midst of challenge and general mayhem at times, actually. That, that is an opportunity to drive change and innovate so not to be scared when you get your curve balls. Helen: And what you've mentioned there about men's mental health, that was very much in your manifesto and you are continuing to work on that. And I know that Stirling, as our current president has said that staff wellbeing is one of the things that he would really like to promote. And again, I just wondered from your perspective, Saiqa, whether you've got any really good staff wellbeing tips. How do you manage to say so cheerful, so motivated in the face of lots of demand and lots of challenges. And like you say, having your fingers, fingerprints all over it. Saiqa: Yeah. Um, I think, I think there's different layers to this. Helen. I think there's one around, you know, have that break from work and my involvement with the BABCP, it nourishes me. Even when it, I was challenged, you know, I had to remind myself why I'm involved with this association. It's a charity and think sometimes we forget it's a charity. So we, it's an opportunity to give back something, but also we get something back, which is relationships and opportunities to, to grow and innovate. Um, so from a membership wellbeing perspective, it's, I know it's hard. I know working in your services is hard and I know the workforce is often looked at less favourably than other psychological therapies, professions, and I just want to acknowledge that, that you're experts in your own right. I want to see more of you in leadership. so that's what I'd say to you. So think about your professional development and also outside of work is connect with branches and special interest groups. Connect with family and friends because it gives you that break away from where, where it can feel a bit relentless or if you're being marginalized or excluded because you're just a CBT therapist and you know, and I think I want us to move towards a place which is we are no less than any other profession cause we don't speak about any other profession in denigrating way. So don't speak about this profession in that way. That's where I'm at with it. So I want us to have courage to actually put some boundaries in place around some of these narratives that I perpetuate, I think. Helen: Okay. So even though you're not the president anymore, and like you said earlier, your, your term of being past president officially comes to an end in September, although you'll be past president forever. What are looking forward to doing more of, I mean, what are your next projects or things that you are hoping to see now that your official role in that level of leadership is changing? What are you looking forward to? Saiqa: Um, do you know there's one point I was like, yeah, I could just go and not do anything else really. You know I became president because I wanted to raise a profile of the association. I was in the media, I was talking about CBT and I was going, hang on, why isn't BABCP doing this? And as you know, that's something that we've been looking at and I've been trying to force that. And I'm pleased that we are developing a communication strategy and that's going to get resourced. Part of the association will be resourced. So I'll still be involved. I want to see that to completion to some extent, and then step back.And men's mental health, I'll still be involved with BABCP to some extent. I think I carry all this knowledge now, but at the same time, what I really want to see is I want to see people being supported and mentor to get involved from underrepresented groups. This includes working class backgrounds and from a working class background, um, to be able to sit on the board. Actually on these higher positions, and I know we're developing a leadership program within the association and it really was to think about giving our members the opportunity to develop the leadership skills, but also have leadership opportunities. So quite looking forward to seeing, sitting back and, uh, seeing where the next generation takes us. But yeah, I think I'm delving a little bit more towards research. You know, CBT is a gold standard, but we want to make sure as many people can benefit from it. So I think on my personal side of things, I'm thinking maybe a little bit of clinical work, a little bit of research, but I'm just being curious, Helen. I'm just being curious. I just sit back and see what happens. Helen: That's absolutely fantastic, Saiqa, thank you very much indeed for talking to me today. Thank you, Helen. Steph: Welcome to our Spotlight on Sessions. This is the part of the podcast where we aim to spotlight a branch or a special interest group, or a particular area of BABCP that we want our members to know a bit more about. Today I'm joined by Erin Graham to talk all about Mental Health And Wellbeing Practitioner registration. Hi Erin. Welcome to Members Matters. Erin: Hi Steph. Steph: Would you like to introduce yourself a bit to listeners who might not know you? Erin: Certainly, so my name's Erin Graham and I'm the Accreditation and Registration Liaison Manager here at the BABCP. My role essentially is the oversight and a lot of operational matters around Wellbeing Practitioner Registration, and Cognitive Psychotherapist Accreditation. Steph: So we are here today to talk about the Mental Health And Wellbeing Practitioner Registration, which is quite a mouthful. Erin: MHWP's for short. Steph: MHWP's for short. I think that's what we'll call them. Could you tell us a little bit about what an MHWP does? Erin: Yeah. So a qualified MHWP focuses on the delivery of brief wellbeing, psychologically informed interventions, but they also support collaborative care planning within a multidisciplinary team, and they work with adults with severe mental health problems. The MHWP role has been developed as part of a wider initiative, I think, within the NHS to increase access to psychological interventions for people with more severe mental health problems. So when we're thinking about what an MHWP does in terms of what we've looked at within and what's outlined in the registration requirements is that all of the work that an MHWP undertakes should be psychologically informed and formulation driven. And there has to be a balance of the personalized care planning and the delivery of the psychological interventions. Um, and we have kind of specified that there has to be a minimum of percent of the time spent on those psychological assess formulations and interventions that were taught within the MHWP national curriculum. So some of the interventions that MHWP's might be familiar, and will be similar to interventions provided by other types of wellbeing practitioners. But some of them will also be quite different. So some of the kind of similarities will be in behavioural activation and exposure and improving kind of sleep. But the MHWPS are also trained in looking at kind of problem solving skills in a slightly different way. They're also kind of trained in looking at recognizing and managing emotions and building confidence as well as working with worry as well. Steph: Okay. So what kind of training or qualifications would you need for this role? Erin: Essentially, to be eligible for registration and to be working within these roles and will need to have completed the MHWP specific training. That is a BPS accredited training as there is for all of the different psychological wellbeing practitioners, there is specific training for each of those roles that people do need to have undertaken to be working with and to be registered for that role. Steph: And why is it important for us to register MHWP's? Erin: Well, I think ultimately there are kind of two main reasons why we should. And the first one, which is always kind of our ultimate priority is around protection of the public. And I suppose the second is around professional registration and having a community to be part of. So when we think about protection of the public, MHWP's like most psychological professionals that are not subject to statutory regulation. However, being part of an appearing on a PSA accredited register alongside guidance from NHS Commission Services offers the public assurances, regards the professional that they're working with and the training that they've received, and that they continuing to meet those registration requirements. In terms of protection of the public, I think it also offers a place outside of services that individuals might be accessing to raise concerns about an individual if needed. And that's another, you know, key function that we serve here at the BABCP. When we are thinking about kind of individuals and we're thinking about professional recognition, again, registration offers that recognition of the training and the skills and the experiences, um, that MHWPS have gained and are bringing to their role. And it's a really important opportunity for individuals to be part of a wider wellbeing practitioner community if members and individuals and MHWP's do choose to register with the BABCP, we really hope to be able to provide a place for MHWPs to be part of a community and they would be joining nearly 5,000 other wellbeing practitioners within the BABCP and will have the opportunity to then become more involved. Steph: So how can MHWP's register with us? Erin: So registration will be launching on the 30th of June and when it's live and when that registration is launched, MHWP members will be able to apply online. So it's a, a fairly straightforward application form, they will be able to apply online. They will need to have all of their details to be able to complete the application and they will need to upload their certificate to evidence their training as part of the application, and their supervisors will also be contacted on submission of the application to also supply a supervisor report. So they're going to be the two main additional things alongside the application form itself that MHPS will need to provide. So they'll need to provide their qualification, the certificate, and they will need to provide the details of their supervisor, and their supervisor will need to submit a supervisor report. Steph: Brilliant. So you've mentioned the BPS already a little bit. How does it work when two different bodies are registering MHWP's? Erin: So essentially the requirements for registration are the same. So we have worked collaboratively with the BPS and with NHSE around the registration scheme. And part of kind of what we have to do is make sure that everything is aligned. So all of the requirements are essentially exactly the same, regardless of which body individuals might choose to register with. So I think what it will then just come down to is individual preferences about which organization they feel they want to be part of. Steph: Okay, brilliant. Well, Erin, that's been great. Thank you so much for coming and talking to us about this. It's been really, really helpful. Erin:: You're welcome. Rachel: So now we return to Ask Me Anything, the part of Members Matters where we get to hear from you as Helen as our senior clinical advisor hat on and addresses your questions. Steph: Yeah. So Helen, we have another one from the mailbag. This came in a couple of weeks ago from a member, and the question is, when do you know CBT is not right for a client? Helen: Well, that's a really good question. Thank you. And in some ways, on the surface of it, it sounds like the answer to that would be fairly straightforward, but I think there's some subtleties to it. So I think one of the things is that we need to make sure that what we're offering in CBT fits with the evidence base. So somebody is coming to us with a difficulty where CBT isn't the best approach for dealing with those difficulties, then CBT probably isn't right for them. And we might say if somebody doesn't want CBT also that it wouldn't be right for them. But I think there's a number of things that we need to take into consideration that sometimes people have had experience of things where perhaps somebody suggested it was a CBT approach, which we wouldn't necessarily agree, met our understanding of what the evidence base is. So we need to make sure that if we have a client that we've properly ensured that they've understood what CBT is and why it might help and how it might help. And then we have things like thinking about what suitability is, and we have to think about the suitability of the therapist. Um, but in terms of client characteristics, there are some people who will benefit more easily without adaptations. But we need to think very carefully about adaptations. We make to ensure that if we're offering the right therapy, it's also accessible for the person we're seeing. So, for example, we talk about motivation and people aren't necessarily motivated when they walk in the room. It's something that we as therapists can do to help people become more motivated. It may well be that there are individual characteristics of that person that might make it more important for us to make sure we've made appropriate adjustments so that they can access what we're offering. And then people talk about things like psychological mindedness. So we might have to help someone to understand the connection between thoughts, feelings, and behaviours. People don't necessarily automatically know that. Again, it helps if people are able to agree, a shared understanding, which is again, very much the job of the therapist to help somebody develop a shared understanding of what the difficulties are and help someone to articulate goals in a way that they can be smart so that they're, they're realistic and achievable, and I guess there will be things around whether somebody has learning difficulties or perhaps really severe and complex difficulties that would affect whether the service they've come to can really meet their needs, even if CBT is suitable, considering whether somebody needs a more specialist service or a more specifically specialist therapist in order to meet those needs. So I've just done a lot of talking there. I'm just wondering, Rachel, do you think I've covered what I needed to Rachel: You covered that very comprehensively I think Helen and I think, you know, it's hard, isn't it, as therapists? cause we, we do this job because we want to help people and sometimes one of the hardest things we have to do is to be able to say, actually I don't think this is right for you, or hopefully more often agree that very collaboratively with our patient. So it's really good to have that awareness in our own minds that we're not always the answer. Um, and sometimes that's simply about timing. Helen: Yeah, that's a really good point, Rachel, about sometimes that we have exactly the right toolkit to help somebody, but perhaps their social support network or their current circumstances mean that there are other priorities right now and isn't the right time for CBT, but it might be in the future. Rachel: Fantastic. Well, thank you so much, Helen. For answering that question, which we just threw it at you. So, um, and remember folks, if you want to take part in ask me anything, please do email us [email protected]. We'll also put that email in the show notes and the episode notes. So please do get in touch if you have any burning questions that you want us to again, Chuck at Helen, and see how she does. Rachel: So before we go, do you want to tell us what's been happening in the Let's Talk Podcasts, Helen. What's been happening in the, in the flagship show? Helen: Well, in, Let's Talk About CBT, the most recent episode that we put out there. I'm talking with Tafi and Sherrie. So Tafi is a man from a black African background who found himself in difficulties when he was living in London and really benefited from the NHS Talking Therapies service that he received and he happened to have a friend who is Sherrie, who's a CBT therapist, and together they went on to create an app which essentially uses CBT principles to help to prompt people, and it's very much designed for a context where people don't have access to, for example, a lot of data. They might have a, a mobile phone. So for example, in the African context where lots of people have a phone but don't have much in the way of, of access to data. And so the apps designed on CBT principles to be accessible to the broadest possible range of people. And it's really interesting to talk to them and hear what they've got to say from that perspective. Rachel: Fantastic and on Research Matters, Steph? Steph: Yeah, so I've got a podcast with Kerry Young where she's talking through the model of working with CT-PTSD for people who have experienced rape. And so it's, it's not the lightest of subjects, but it's really important and you can just tell just how passionate Kerry is about working with this client group as well. It's such a good episode. Rachel: And having interacted with Kerry in, in lots of ways over the years, I've never failed to come away inspired or actually full of hope, which is quite extraordinary given the work that she talks about. So yeah, really recommend that to folk to listen to that podcast. Helen: I'm really looking forward to hearing it Steph: Yeah. And Rach, you've got another podcast coming out in your miniseries of depression. Rachel: Yes, I've really enjoyed talking to Professor Barney Dunn from Exter University on his new treatment, well, not so new, he's been going for a while now, but Augmented Depression Therapy or ADEPT as it's known, which focuses particularly on positive affect. Um, and I think it can be really inspiring for folk particularly working with depression, which again, in the context of our previous discussion could feel a bit heavy and sometimes quite hard going to continually think about how they can adapt their cognitive therapy constantly to put their patient's values and aspirations at the heart of the work, which is what this model does so well. And again, you know, full, full of hope and, and light actually in, in those dark places that people find themselves in. Steph: And Barney talks really eloquently about it as well, doesn't he? It's just very clear, isn't it? And really straightforward Rachel: An editor's dream, right Steph? Steph: He was an absolute dream. Rachel: So that's about it for today. So all that remains to be said is a huge thank you for listening to Members Matters and all that you, the members do to make the BABCP a great organization to be part of. We'll be back in a month's time with more BABCP news and updates, and until then, it's bye from me.    

Welcome to the first episode of Members Matters, the new BABCP podcast made exclusively for our members. This podcast will bring all the latest news and information from BABCP and we will be introducing our members to key figures in the organisation and you get to have your say in our Ask me Anything section. In this episode: Meet our CEO – Rachel Handley chats with Tommy McIlravey, Chief Executive Officer of BABCP. Tommy shares his personal journey, what brought him to BABCP, his vision for the organisation, and how he plans to support members through better communication, inclusion, and strategic leadership. Spotlight on… Low Intensity SIG – Steph Curnow speaks to Sam Torney, Chair of the Low Intensity Special Interest Group (SIG), about the challenges and opportunities for wellbeing practitioners. Sam shares how the SIG supports members, upcoming CPD opportunities, and how to get involved. Ask Me Anything – Helen Macdonald answers a member's question about finding the right CBT supervisor and what to look for in terms of accreditation, qualifications, and fit. Links and resources: Join a Special Interest Group (SIG): https://babcp.com/Membership/Special-Interest-Groups Find a CBT supervisor on the CBT Register: https://www.cbtregisteruk.com More information on our Journals Special Issues can be found here BCP Hoarding Special Issue can be found here  Check out our other podcasts Let's Talk About CBT, Practice Matters, and Research Matters in our podcasts hub: https://babcp.com/Podcasts Contact us: [email protected] New episodes every month – subscribe now so you don't miss out. Transcript: Rachel: Hello and welcome to Members Matters, the podcast made exclusively for BABCP members. I'm Rachel Handley, also to be found hosting the BABCP Practice Matters podcast. And I'm here with my co-host, Steph Curnow and Helen Macdonald. Guys, do you want to say a little bit to introduce yourselves? Steph: Yeah, sure. I'll start. Hi everyone, I am Steph Curnow. I am the BABCP Journals Managing Editor, and also the host of our Let's talk about CBT- Research Matters podcast. Helen: And Helen. Hi, so I'm BABCP's Senior Clinical Advisor, and I host the Let's talk about CBT Podcast. Rachel: So in this podcast, we're going to bring you the latest news and information for members. We're going to be packed full of information like meeting some of the key figures in the organization in our introducing section, and you'll get a chance to get involved too and ask me anything where Helen with her Senior Clinical Advisor hat on is going to take any questions you'd like to ask. You can find out more about that a little later on. You'll also hear from the low intensity special interest group in our spotlight on session. But first up, Steph Helen, how have things been in the world of BABCP? Steph: Yeah, things have been really good from the journal's perspective. We have been super busy lately. We have four special issues on the go at the moment across CBT for addictions, a neurodiversity special issue, one for the low intensity workforce, which we'll hear a bit more about later, and also one on hoarding, which is very exciting. Helen: I'm looking forward to those coming out. When are we going to see them? Steph: So the closing date for the first one has just happened, so that should hopefully be published later this year or early next year.That's going to be the first one on CBT and addictions. So, yeah, really exciting. Rachel: Helen, what's been going on in your world? Helen: There's quite a few things as usual going on. We're about to publish an issue of CBT today where there's another ethics article coming out, so you can look forward to seeing another question from one of our members about number of sessions when you're working in CBT. I've been doing some work with the children and young people's special interest group on updating the Good Practice guide on working with children, young people and families, and we are just about to complete work on a good service and good practice guide as well. So there's a lot going on in terms of building up guidance and information for members. And apart from that, doing a lot of answering questions from members, which is another reason for having the Ask Me Anything section here. Rachel: You're never lacking in work, are you, Helen? Helen: I don't get bored. Rachel: Fantastic. So shall we get into the podcast? First up is our introducing section where we'll be bringing you an in-depth conversation with some of the key people here at BABCP. This episode I'm going to introduce to you our CEO Tommy McIlravey, here's our chat. Across the Members Matters podcast episodes. We're hoping to introduce you to some of the key figures in the BABCP. I know that we have fellow members who've been part of the BABCP for so long they know the organization, like they know their own family, and for many, it really does feel like a family and will lead aside any stereotypical therapist jokes about family dysfunction for now, but for many of you, the organization is something you signed up for, maybe for a very specific purpose like accreditation and as the organization has grown so much over the years, the heart of who, what, and how BABCP business has done can seem very remote or vague to you. So today we'd like to introduce Tommy McIlravey, chief Executive Officer of the BABCP since mid 2023 I believe, Tommy. Tommy: Yeah, that's about right. I started the week of the conference in 2023 and worked part-time for the first few weeks cause I was finishing off some other stuff. And then full-time from September 23. Rachel: Wow. So conference is either a baptism of fire or a total immersion in the joy of BABCP depending on how you see it. But welcome and thank you so much for joining us. Tommy: Oh no. It's great to be here. Rachel: So before we get into the ins and outs of what it means to be CEO of the BABCP, can you tell us a little bit about yourself? So, what would your friends and family tell us about what's important to you? What gives you joy, gets you out of the bed in the morning? Or, or if someone wanted to make conversation with you at the at the conference, what would be a good opening topic? Tommy: I think I probably like to think of myself as being quite interested in lots of stuff. So there's not, there's probably not one go-to, I, I'm always interested in meeting other people. I think I'm probably quite extrovert, and so I, I do my best thinking while I'm speaking to other people as well. So there's things that I love Luton Football club, and we are both wearing orange today. Bizarrely, Rachel: What colour could I have worn that would've been the enemy, the chief opposition. Tommy: Oh yeah. So yellow for Watford would be particularly problematic, although I have a lovely yellow jumper that I'm very fond of, so I'm not that precious about it. Rachel: Okay. You've told us a little bit about yourself. What brought you to the role of Chief Executive Officer at the BABCP? Tommy: Well, firstly, I've been a charity CEO now for, I think it's 17 years. Rachel: Oh, wow. Tommy: Most of that time was in CEO roles for what I'd call frontline mental health charities. So those working much more directly with people using services, and that started off in a wonderful charity called Sahir House in Liverpool which does work around HIV and sexual health across Merseyside and Cheshire. Rachel: It sounds like you had an early interest then in both mental health and diversity. Why the interest in mental health? Tommy: Well, actually for much longer than that, so from the mid nineties or late nineties, I volunteered at a mental health drop-in for LGBTQ plus people. And I suppose that interest in mental health I think was continued through working in sexual health because most people living with HIV. Experienced some kind of mental health. So a lot of the work we did there was mental health focused, and so that led me on to working for Mind, and I ran Lancashire Mind for about five or six years. It is one of the larger local Minds within the Federation and Lancs is a really interesting place to work because it's a bit like a microcosm of England. You have the seaside, you have forests, you have built up areas, you have a lot of farmland. You have places that are kind of very wealthy and been the same for hundreds of years. You have some of the most ethically diverse towns in the UK so you, you kind of get almost a little bit of everything you get in England in one big county. And so some of the mental health challenges there were interesting, but also really different from one side of it to the other. Rachel: So you had that sort of Mini Britain experience again, you, something about the diversity of how what you're seeing in terms of people's backgrounds and experience coming to mental health and how that made a difference to what they're coming with as well. Tommy: Absolutely. And things like particularly I suppose, working in Blackburn around ethnicity and the lack of visible clinicians who were able to help people who looked like the people who lived across a lot of Blackburn Darwin. So there's very large numbers of people with South Asian heritage. And very few NHS therapists who weren't white. And that was a, that was a real challenge. And actually when I went to Lancaster Mind, the staff team of around 40 were all white as well. By the time I left, I think we were up to about, it was seven or eight non-white staff, and they were both representative of the communities, some of the communities that we served. Just some other backgrounds as well. So a really interesting mix of backgrounds. Rachel: And was that a deliberate strategy to break down some of those barriers and make the organization more representative? Tommy: Well, there was certainly something, there was some soul searching about how have we ended up in a place where I everybody looks the same and sounds the same actually cause there's lots of sort of white middle class people who were there and looking at things like person specs for jobs and what we asked for them. And we did ask for things like psychology degrees for lots of people and for some posts where maybe we didn't need them. Actually thinking about how, if, if that's a barrier, what does that say about psychology degrees and that that's a challenge that universities have probably faced and have maybe tackled because we can see a much more diverse workforce coming through in psychological professions. But you do wonder, what was it before? That was the barrier as well. Yeah, absolutely. And was that about role models or was that about indirect discrimination or what was it about? Rachel: And it's so fabulous, isn't it? Seeing these really strong role models now coming through and having the opportunity to take up roles in these organizations, but not a job that's done, I don't suppose. Tommy: Yeah, and I, I, I guess the other bit about equity, diversity, and inclusion is about everybody's responsibility within that. I guess from my own experience of being a gay man and when I worked for a university 30 years ago when they started to look at issues around that, you felt that you had to bear some of the responsibility for helping them understand how to deal with sexuality in the workplace. And actually you need, you need everybody else to do the heavy lifting. So I was always aware that if we were going to be an anti-racist organization, it's not about getting all the, all the people who aren't white and putting them in a room and saying like, what do we need to do? Yeah. That's, that communication is an important part of it, but it's not, you can't leave it to the people who are. In some way, different or other, or whatever else they've lived with in their life, to then be the solution to that problem. Rachel: So getting a picture of your leadership emerging through Lancaster Mind and where did you go next? What brought you into the B-A-B-C-P? Tommy: I was doing some work for National Mind after that. I start, I started to do some freelance work and was interested in, in seeing if I could just work on my own for a bit, and I, I very quickly realized it wasn't really for me. I did want to get back into the driving seat, but when the opportunity with BABCP came up, I was just very interested cause of how different it looked to some of the  other opportunities that were coming up at that point in time. And I knew nothing really about BABCP at the point when that landed in my inbox. So it was from a position of blissful ignorance really, that I came to it. Rachel: And I think sometimes that's a, that's a good thing without any sort of prior assumptions or opinions in a way that might've narrowed down your vision. Tommy: Absolutely, and I was very open about how little I knew when I came into post and I said, you know, I'm here because I have skills in governance. I have skills in running charities. I have skills in culture and strategy and those kind of things, but not in evidence-based psychotherapy at all. And that then was a good framing for the conversations that I then had with so many people because I had one-to-ones with every member of staff, whatever their role with all of the board members, with committee chairs, and then with some wide stakeholders as well. And that really gave me a flavour of where the association had come from and where it had got to. And then that helped inform those conversations about where we're going next as well. Rachel: And you said there was something intriguing, even though you didn't know a lot about it, there was something intriguing that seemed different. What was that difference? If you can put a finger on it, Tommy: It wasn't showy. Yeah. Like I said, the application pack and all of the stuff, sometimes people spend a lot of money on the hard sell of who they are, and it was more just actually, this is what we do. This is why we do it. This is what we need. It was really to the point and written in a way that I could understand and relate to. Rachel: It sounds like there was something about that that was values consistent for you by an organization that sort of wanted to do what it said on the tin and wasn't pretending to be something it wasn't. Tommy: Yeah, I think that's right. Rachel: And it also sounded like you're someone who likes to influence to be in an organization, to be leading and involved in something bigger. Is that right? Is that fair to say? Tommy: I think if you want to make change, then you need to bring other people with you. And I could see in BABCP, a lot of people who individually probably make absolutely revolutionary changes to individual people's lives. And so how can you harness all of that intelligence and skill at doing something a bit wider? The whole of psychotherapy is about making profound change for one person at a time, and I'm interested in how people who can make that change one person at a time can bring that learning to making societal change. That's not too grandiose. Sorry. Rachel: Well, I'm hearing already your passion and your vision coming through. Even these, these early discussions we're having around, you know, you've got these big values around diversity and people not feeling othered in mental health services and inclusion and also passionate about making a big change. And those sound like even if they are grandiose, really good impulses to have, and I guess they're not, because these are things we all want to be engaged in, aren't they? So just stepping back a little bit, your CEO and I, for those of us therapists who possibly only encountered the term CEO in the likes of news of the post office or water company scandals or on glamorous Netflix shows, what, what actually is a CEO and, and more specifically, what's the purpose of the role in an organization like BABCP? Tommy: I think it's important to note that BABCP is a registered charity. So its status is different and protected in law. So it's different from being a company for profit or from being a public body, although it is a company as well. For reasons that lots of charities are companies too, for the protection of trustees and in any charity, the legal person is the board. Same in a company. Really, if you want to sue a charity, you're essentially suing the board of that charity and the board is drawn from BABCP members, and until recently, actually was drawn entirely from members through election. Over the last couple of years, we've put in some lay directors who bring different skills and actually that diversity of thought to the board, and that's how stuff runs. But in order for a group of people who will give their time and give their wisdom in order for their vision to be turned into reality. They need people there to do it. So the CEO's ultimate responsibility is, well ultimately in a charity is to the public, but via that board. And I don't know if people always get that dynamic. Rachel: So I mean, wonderful that people are willing to do that and give their time and energies to those roles. But it sounds really like your role is really importantly in support of that and actualizing that vision, making those things happen. Tommy: Yeah. Rachel: Can you ground us in that a little bit? So what does a typical day or week look like? What, what are you typically doing with your life from nine to five and beyond, and who might you be meeting with? What decisions might you be making Tommy: So often the CEOs cycle is, is a lot longer than a day. So I'm often thinking about what needs to happen this year or what needs to happen this quarter. So I probably would have a typical month rather than a typical day. I suppose the top level thing is, is the governance. So making sure that that the board's issues are implemented, but in line with some kind of strategy and in line with the various bits of law. So Charity law, company law. Qualities, law, information, governance, health and safety and so on. So there's making sure stuff happens and happens in a way that's proper. The point of having a strategy is not just that you can do something different from what you're currently doing or make some change in the world, but also you can demonstrate that you're making that change. So a big thing that I've done as CEO is that consultation with members. Putting together a new strategy with the board, and now we're just at the stage of, well, how will we know we've done it? And writing some performance measures. That's something we're quite excited about so that members can see the direction of travel of the association and they can see what we are doing with their money. Importantly. Yeah, and have some demonstrable improvements in some of the things that we're doing with that and some new things that we'll be doing for members that we haven't done before. And I guess that's the exciting bit of the job. There's a role around communications, so at a strategic level. Making sure that we're talking to the right people, we're sending the right messages, that we are, have a diverse range of opinions within the association, but that we find something that we all agree on. I think that's really important with the communication goes the influencing. So speaking to people who can change what's going on in the health systems in England, Ireland, Northern Ireland, Scotland and Wales. That's one of the things you do as you mature into a role. So I guess in my first year there's been more about consultation and writing the strategy, but then as you get to the stage of actually everybody agreeing on what it is that you're going to do, then you can have more influence on what happens in the rest of the world. And then there's just some other bits and bobs that CEOs do. So I am managing the senior team also trying to lead and motivate the wider team, which has been a real challenge with, this is the first role I've ever done that's entirely remote. I've done a, did the working from home during Covid, but you know, we got people back together in rooms as soon as we could. And other than that, I think just being another person that members can tell how they see things, that there are other channels for them to communicate with us through the membership team, through the complaints team, through the accreditation team or whatever. But going out to conferences and events and meeting members, they're some of the best quality conversations I have cause often they have solutions that are really simple and really powerful, but for some reason we wouldn't have thought of on our own. Rachel: Fantastic. So it sounds like there's something really important about consultation and setting vision. Who do you interact with? You've talked about your role in relation to the board. How do you interact with other team members, other senior team leaders? Tommy: So I meet with my senior team once a week, which is really the driving force of the leadership within the organization. And then with the, the next level of leadership down once a quarter. We do have full staff team meetings once a month and we do now have twice a year we'll meet as a staff team in person, which actually is incredibly valuable cause you get people from across different teams who might not have interacted with each other, having conversations for the first time. And that ultimately has a real benefit for members because they will work out ways of shortcutting some of the processes and challenging why we do the things the way that we do. Rachel: I'm hearing a lot, and we will speak more about your positive vision for the organization, but I'm also interested in since joining the BABCP what the most significant challenges or issues the organization or you have faced or is facing currently that you've had to engage with as CEO? Tommy: I think getting the workforce and capacity right is difficult. I think we've quite rightly taken a cautious approach. Spending members money on putting, putting more people onto the staff team. But we've seen some areas behind their targets. So processing memberships, processing accreditation, processing complaints particularly was really under-resourced cause it's all very well having that great vision, isn't it, Rachel? But like, if you're not getting the basics right. You know, you're not doing the things that nobody are paying you for, then there's a real problem. So I think there is some housekeeping stuff has been some of the most challenging because it's about not rushing in and just throwing money at problems, but understanding, well, what is it actually that we need other things that are wider and more about the world. I mean, a big challenge for the association is that understanding the public understanding of CBT, of other evidence-based mental health therapies. I'm doing a lot of work at the moment, both within the BABCP and with other associations around how do we better protect the public from things like rogue therapists who don't have any qualifications or people who may have some qualifications, but then do a weekend course in CBT and call themselves CBT therapists and stuff. Rachel: And got an online certificate. Tommy: Yeah, quite. And it's difficult because like anything else with the public, there's so much information, there's so much messaging. People only really find out about stuff like CBT when they need it. And even then, they may not know where to go for good quality information. Rachel: And so I guess that the flip side of that is what's exciting you about the future? And you've talked about some of the challenges. I hear inherent in that lots of things you really want to do, you want the organization to do what's exciting, what's going on that you think is really going to make a difference? Tommy: There's loads of potential to improve the way that we communicate with members and members communicate with each other. And one of the things that will ultimately enable us to do is to have an online forum for members where they can communicate with the whole membership, with their branch, with their specialist interest groups, whether there'll be resources on there that they can go and look up, that'd be great when that's here. The other one at the minute that I'm very excited about  is the leadership program. So we are looking to find that next generation of leaders within CBT and wellbeing practitioners and do some development with them. So that they can go on to help us through being on committees and on board but also help CBT by taking up leadership roles in the NHS or in academia or in private practice, or just getting them to the next stage of their career and the next stage of influencing the, the wider world. Rachel: So at risk of sounding like a bad job interview, Tommy, what's your big vision in five years, 10 years? How would you like the organization to be different? From how it is now or more over what it is now. Tommy: I think more transparency so people can see where each pound of their membership fee goes. What gets delivered for it, what of that is business as usual, and what of that is re reinvestment? What are the new things that, through those conversations with members that we're going to try? I don't believe in innovation just for its own sake, but I think if there are things that that members want, let's bring that. Part of the vision is also about not losing bits along the way as well. You know, I think we do very well at bringing together a broad coalition of people from different parts of that whole evidence-based psychotherapy spectrum. So I think it's important to, to keep those together. And it's important to have other voices have prominence. So making sure that, not just in terms of EDI, but the EDI bit is important that our board and our leadership reflects that wider demographics but also reflects the fact that we work across five nations of the UK and the Republic of Ireland, and that we have that equal voice for people on different professional routes as well. So, you know, what is it that wellbeing practitioners want as opposed to CBT therapists and making sure that that's in there. And also that general comms bit, if you get better at the comms externally as well. So helping the public understanding. Making some real progress on that, whatever that looks like. Rachel: So an inclusive organization that is transparent and communicates well and internally and externally sounded like big aspects of your vision. Tommy: Definitely. Rachel: And, and what, if any, message, Tommy, would you like to give the members of the organization from your role, from where you're sitting? Tommy: Oh, well, I don't want to sound condescending or too grandiose or anything when I say this, but I really want to say just well done to all of those members of BABCP cause it's been a tough few years, we've been through a pandemic. We know there's a climate emergency that's not getting better. We know that there's increased intentions around the world. We've had a change of government, but there hasn't really been a change of austerity that people can see yet. So there's a lot of additional pressures on people's mental health, both as practicing clinicians, but also in the wider world. So there's, there's more demand for services, whether they're NHS or private services or wherever they are from. And I think just to keep going and to keep operating professionally as a psychotherapist is a big ask. And I know people will take support from things like supervision and. And their own wellbeing practices and stuff, but that doesn't make it easy. So I've got such admiration for the membership, and I suppose I'd just like to express that. I think, I don't think it'd be any more complicated than that, to be honest. Rachel: And finally, Tommy, what, what then now is your personal top tip for good mental health? Tommy: I, I never know if these apply to other people, but I just love finding stuff out. I love meeting new people, going to new places, doing something I haven't done before, and I think that is harder probably as you get older as well. But it's so rewarding. Just take yourself out of your comfort zone every now and again. And if someone invites you to go and do something and you're not sure if you can be bothered, give it a go cause think of all the things you've ever tried in your life that were new or different. There'd be some that were great. There'd be some that you could have taken left. There'd be the odd one that wasn't. But on balance, you always get more. From doing different stuff and particularly speaking to people who are different from you. Rachel: I'm sure folk really value getting to meet you today. Tommy, thank you so much for sharing a bit about you, about the role, the organization, and it's really heartening to me to know that there's someone in your role who is so passionate about those core values that we have in the BABCP around evidence-based practice around inclusion, around reaching the public, around supporting our members about transparency and about using our influence widely and disagreeing to coin a phrase from another podcast agreeably, um, in, in an emotionally intelligent way, hopefully to influence the world for the better. Thanks so much, Tommy. Tommy: Thanks Rachel. Be great speaking with you. Steph: Welcome to our Spotlight on Sessions. This is the part of the podcast where we aim to spotlight a branch or a special interest group, or a particular area of BABCP that we would like our members to know a bit more about. Today, I am delighted to be joined by Sam Torney, the chair of the Low Intensity SIG who is going to talk to us all about the SIG and what they do.So, hello Sam. Sam: Hi Steph. Thanks for having me on the podcast. Steph: Thank you so much for coming on. So would you like to introduce yourself to the listeners? Sam: Yeah, so I'm from the West Midlands in England. I have been a PWP now for the last 10 years or so, and I also work as a team lead for the Shropshire, Telford and Wrekin Talking Therapy service. And then in my spare time, I am the chair of the Low Intensity special Interest Group for the BABCP. So we are really here to represent the interest and the voices of wellbeing practitioners across the BABCP, so that is PWP's- Psychological Wellbeing Practitioners, but also Children's and Young People Wellbeing Practitioners, the Educational Mental Health Wellbeing Practitioners. And then shortly we're hoping to be joined on official registration by the Mental Health Wellbeing Practitioners that I think that's coming up this summer. A big group of people were ever growing and the SIG is just here to support those people to listen to their point of views, make sure that what wellbeing practitioners need is being heard in the BABCP across the board. Steph: So could you tell us a little bit about how the SIG works? Sam: Yeah, so the SIGs all work in a similar sort of way, really. It's a committee of volunteers, which for us is obviously made up of wellbeing practitioners but can be anybody that's within the BABCP across the UK. So all of the SIGs have elected positions. You have an elected chair as well as a treasurer, a secretary, and a branch liaison that liaises with the other branches and the local branches within the BABCP and feeds back. SIGs have a yearly, a GM and as is coming up this summer as well. So we're governed quite officially from that perspective. And then we feed back into the other committees, to the branches and the BABCP in general. As a committee, we meet approximately six to eight weekly depending on the time of year and what's going on, and we discuss anything that's been brought to our attention. So we plan things like training, like open forums, we bring anything that the BABCP has asked us to look at to discuss and then feed that back in as well. We do all of that online and because obviously being across the country, it makes it very difficult for us all to meet in person that regularly. Steph: Yeah, I can understand that. Sam: Yeah, and then that's, we just have an open membership, so anybody that's a member of the BABCP can join as a regular member and they can attend our open forums, attend our journal club, get regular emails from us and updates that kind of thing as well. Steph: Okay, so you don't actually have to be a low intensity practitioner to join? Sam: No, absolutely not. We don't discriminate, we promise, and we have people that aren't low intensity practitioners join us at Journal Club. Occasionally we have people who are aspiring low intensity practitioners as well, which is really nice getting involved and come and talk to us so anybody can join. Steph: And so are there any challenges that you face as a sig or are there any opportunities that you're able to pursue? Sam: Yeah, I think particularly with being a low intensity sig, that the issues that we have is our workforce are very busy, they're very high volume workforce, and trying to engage with people when they have got those kind of responsibilities can be really difficult. So wellbeing practitioners. They tend to be employed in the public sector with huge demands on their time in services that struggle to provide time outside their clinical work to allow for development opportunities. And we know when you are working for the NHS when you're working for the public sector, that there's huge demands on clinical output and it can be really difficult for services to allow that time, that space for reflection, for development. Also traditionally wellbeing practitioners are lower paid than our CBT colleagues, which makes things like self-funding conferences, entering into research, things like that really inaccessible for people. So those are the things that we facing mostly as a challenge, trying to engage with workforce that has all of that going on and engage differently. Equally, that can be a bit of an opportunity as well. So when I was first A PWP, now I had nothing to do with the BABCP, I didn't see what they had to offer me because we weren't a registered practitioner workforce. I didn't see that they were looking at us in any way. I think that's very different now. There are now over 4,000 people registered within the BABCP, on the wellbeing practitioner registration. So huge numbers compared to where we were previously, and that's growing all the time. Every time I ask for an update, there's another few hundred on there. We have strength in numbers, so we can start thinking about, well, actually, if this traditional way of engaging doesn't work for us, what does work? How can we move it forward? How can we discuss what research looks like for us as wellbeing practitioners? Not necessarily what has been done before. So I think there's more opportunity now than there ever has been. It's just finding a way of bringing people together and bringing all that together in a way that works. Steph: So as you are the chair of the SIG, what is on your desk right now? What are the things that you are working on? Sam: So I tend to find with the SIG that we have a lot of ambition, but again, the time and then you drive that forward up and mix it a little bit slow. But we're working really hard. So some of the big things that we've got on the desk right now, we have a little bit of a manifesto of what we want to work on. So part of that is producing a program of CPD within the BABCP that is accessible to all wellbeing practitioner roles. Previously the focus has only been on PWPs, but we have all the wellbeing practitioner roles that we really want to include and develop with as well. Making sure we're not overlapping with other training offer, but giving people something that a works for their registration so they're ticking that box and something that's really worthwhile and valuable for them. We've got a plan that we want to run a full online day of CPD in November of this year. So we're currently putting that together, getting some speakers, getting people involved, and looking at how we can work that in a way that is accessible to everybody as well. So there'll be more information about that coming soon. One of my projects that I really am interested in doing for people is looking at career development within these roles. So again, previously career development has been, you go on to be a CBT therapist or a clinical psychologist. There's nothing wrong with that. If that's your ambition and that's what you want to do, it's fantastic. But actually with finding, there're a career pathways within the wellbeing practitioners that people can develop into as well. So I'm trying to put together a series of blog posts from people in different careers where their pathways have gone where they are developing what's happening for them next. And I'd be really interested in hearing from anybody who'd like to be involved in that and just write us a little bit of a blog about what they're doing, what they've see their career being like in the future so people can see the different opportunities that are available to them. We are really, really keen on getting people more involved with research as well. Again, wellbeing practitioner research and low intensity CBT research has often been led from a high intensity perspective, and we want to try and make sure that that's led from within house more and along. So within the SIG we have a journal club, which runs normally the first Wednesday evening of the month at 7:00 PM. And we talk about articles, we look at research, we look at where we can develop, how we can use that in practice. What I would say about journal club is people I think sometimes feel a little bit intimidated about coming there if they don't feel they really understand research or know where we're coming from. We are very, very low key, so please don't ever be put off thinking, oh, I don't know enough. It's very relaxed environment. I don't know a lot about research either. We just calm, we explore it together, there's no stupid question. We ask what we can learn from it, and we take it forward. And then I also wanted to mention the special edition of the Cognitive Behavioural Therapist, which will be coming up soon. Yes. And I know you are very involved with that, Steph. Steph: Yeah, I was like, yes, please. Yes, do mention this. Sam: So I'm so excited about this. The idea is that there's going to be a full edition of low intensity research that's published altogether and all at once, so we can begin to again, drive that research forward. And you guys on that team have been really great in supporting wellbeing practitioners. If they do feel like, well, what can I write? I don't know how to do a piece of research. It's not necessarily just about that. You can write a case study, you can get involved in other ways. So it's a really exciting opportunity if that's something you'd like to look into to be involved. Steph: Yeah, and just on that, I would really definitely recommend that people go check out the webinars as well that we did not so long ago with Eve Bampton Wilton, and some others who talk through how to do research from a low intensity perspective and how to write for papers, and that's really, really helpful resource as well if anyone's thinking of submitting to the journal. And do get in touch with us if people have ideas as well, we'd love to hear them. Sam: And we do have people popping along to Journal Club to discuss that as well. So if anybody has any questions and they want to pop in there, we quite have Liz Kell or Richard Thwaites come along and, answer any questions that you've got as well. Steph: Yeah, it sounds like the first rule of Journal Club is come to Journal Club. Sam: Absolutely. Come and chill and bring a cup of tea. And if you don't know anything, that's fine. You can say that. It's not a problem. We all learn as we go. Steph: That's such a good message. Thank you, Sam. Finally, before we wrap up, is there anything you'd like to say to anyone who might be thinking about joining the SIG? How can people get involved? Sam: Absolutely. So there's lots of different ways to get involved. Again, I'm very aware of people's time in a workforce that often has young children and a lot of other things on their plates. You don't need to dedicate huge of time to this if you just want to be a little bit involved. So there actually an article coming out into the next CBT today, discussing ways for wellbeing practitioners to be involved. Whether you've got five minutes, whether you've got half an hour, whether you want to give a little bit more time, discusses all the different ways that you can be. So I'd say look out for that first of all. We have quarter open forums, which we are planning out for the next year, and I'll get those dates out soon. So we'll have our AGM coming up so you can just pop into that. Again, that's online. Bring up anything that you want to or just sit in the background and listen to kind of things that we're doing. You can sign up for the SIG via the website and we send regular emails for invites, for forums as well as journal club out on there. And we also have a LinkedIn page. So again, anything that we're doing I'll put on there, so you'll be able to access it easily. And if you are wanting to be a little bit more involved and be on the committee, you can just pop us an email, [email protected]  Let know and we can talk to you about how you get on the committee kind of things. Steph: Brilliant. Well, thank you so much, Sam. As always, it's been super lovely to chat to you, and I really hope that this encourages people to come join the SIG or come check out who you are or go to Journal Club. Sam: Yes, please. It'd be lovely to see some people there. Steph: It was really lovely to hear from Sam, wasn't it, and all the work that the low intensity SIG are up to. So just a reminder to anyone who's interested in joining the SIG, please do go and check them out. Any of our members can join any of the SIGs. We'll link to the special interest group page from our website in the show notes. So please do go have a look for them if you are interested in joining any. Rachel: So, as we said earlier, this podcast is all about you as members of the BABCP and this is your chance to get involved. We really want this podcast to be a two-way conversation about which we don't mean you shouting at your phones at home, but we really want a conversation. And to that end, Helen is here as our Senior Clinical Advisor to answer your questions, and you can ask her anything. No pressure, Helen. Steph: So Helen, as I was in charge of the podcast mail bag, I have pulled out a first question from one of our members who have emailed in and they have asked, how can I find a supervisor and what credentials do they need to have? Helen: Right. Thanks Steph. Well, that's quite a broad question, so let me talk a little bit around it first and I'll do my best to answer it. So firstly, the key principle for anybody looking for a supervisor is we need to find somebody who meets our supervision needs. I guess that's fairly obvious and if somebody's working in low intensity practice, my expectation is that they're working in a system of care where the supervision, including both clinical skills and case management, will be part of that system of care that they're working in. So I'm going to make the assumption that we're talking about cognitive behavioural psychotherapists, high intensity practitioners, for example, and if somebody, I suppose also is in training, if they're on one of our accredited programs, the clinical supervisor must be accredited, and we will find that out by looking on the CBT Register, UK and Ireland. And even if you're not on an accredited program, if you're training in CBT, that would be the first priority from my perspective, is looking for somebody who's accredited as a practitioner. Still better if they're accredited as a supervisor. But at the moment, relatively few of our accredited members, even if they provide supervision, are also accredited as supervisors. And if you are looking for specialist supervision, word of mouth, joining the special interest group and asking for recommendations can be a good way of finding the right supervisor. And if you are looking for someone and you don't find the right supervisor who's accredited in exceptional circumstances. It might be that you find somebody who's got an international qualification, for example, they're accredited by the European organization, the EABCT, or at least they have a postgraduate qualification and training in CBT, and they're practicing and being supervised themselves. So those are the credentials that they have to have. A lot of people find supervisors by word of mouth if it's not provided as part of their organization or employers setting, or as I say, through the SIG, through your regional BABCP branch, for example. And of course it can be online, it can be in a group setting. And perhaps for more experienced practitioners, arranging a peer supervision contract can be a way of finding the right supervision with the right person. Rachel: And Helen, would you have anything to say about fit, who you get on with, how it feels in the room? Helen: I think that's a really important part of making sure that the supervision meets your needs, and a good supervisor will be challenged by a good supervisor. That's for sure, and mine certainly challenges me at times, but having a really sound and trusting relationship with your supervisor is so important. We're going to make ourselves vulnerable in supervision. We're going to talk about things that aren't going well or show videos of our practice that we're perhaps not feeling like it's our finest hour. And being open to learn with somebody is going to be a vital part of that supervisory relationship. Rachel: And I guess it's not always, in my experience of supervision, it's not always completely straightforward. Sometimes you hit bumps because of that important aspect of challenge or coming at things from slightly different perspectives, and that can be a really fruitful part of supervision, can't it? But equally, if it feels too challenging and it's not meeting your needs, I think it's also important to be able to say that that's not anyone's fault necessarily It's just not quite a fit. Helen: Quite. Yeah, I agree with you, and I think being able to have that conversation and having a contract that's got a review built into it so that you can have that conversation and it's expected that you will do that. And also making sure that your supervisor also has supervisory supervision is another important part of that process. Just making sure that we're all being supported in doing what we're doing and that we can have those transparent and if necessary, difficult conversations as part of that. Rachel: Helen, thank you so much for answering that member question. I'm sure that'd be really useful for lots of people. And thank you for listening to Members Matters from the BABCP. Just a reminder of our other podcasts. Helen, do you want to tell us what's coming up on the flagship Let's talk about CBT podcast. Helen: Well, we just released a State of Mind Sport podcast where we talk to people from the charity, State of Mind Sport about mental health and reaching. perhaps particularly men who wouldn't normally talk about their mental health and mental fitness sessions as a way of improving wellbeing in that part of our population. And coming up soon, we'll have podcasts about menopause with both lived experience and expertise in CBT, and we've also got a podcast coming up where I talk to someone from a black Afro-Caribbean background about his journey, including CBT on the pathway to improve mental health. Rachel: Fantastic. And those podcasts are really brilliant. Both I find as a practitioner, but also to recommend to your clients and family members and people you know who are just interested. What's coming up in the Journals podcast, Steph. Steph: Yeah, so I've recently put out a podcast with Dr. Daniel Wilson, who is actually based in Queensland talking about CBT-E for eating disorders, which is really interesting. And I've just recorded a session with Katherine Wakelin about working with PTSD and moral injury and bringing in religious beliefs and how people can work with that. And I'm also going to be speaking to Kerry Young later this week as well, talking about working with PTSD, with rape survivors as well. So I would imagine that's going to be a hard listen, but a really fascinating one as well. Rachel: And the Research Matters podcast is just brilliant. You know, whether you love sitting down and reading a paper, or whether that's your nemesis, having to focus on the written word for a period of time, it just really brings all of that to life. And you, we get to hear so much about the passion and the hard work and the application of those research studies as Steph talks to those folk. On the Practice Matters Podcast, we've been doing a bit of a mini-series on depression. We've had some really excellent contributors like Kim Wright and Tom Richardson on Bipolar. Very recently we have just released a first for the Practice Matters podcast, which was a two part interview with Steve Hollan on cognitive therapy of depression. When you listen, you'll understand why it needed to be two parts. There was so much in that podcast. It was really fantastic talking to Steve. We've got a number of further episodes coming up in that series. I'm looking forward to talking to Heather O'Mahen and Sarah Healy on perinatal work. So that's going to be really fun. So yeah, do listen into the podcast. And remember, if you want to take part in this podcast, in the Ask Me Anything, please just email us [email protected] and we'll also put out an email to get in touch with us in the episode notes. So please do get in touch. We'll be back in a month's time with more BABCP news and updates, and it's goodbye from me and bye from me. Bye.