PODCAST · business
Life After Ministry
by Matt Davis
Many of us have experienced the sting of losing a job. But there’s something uniquely challenging about leaving a position in full-time vocational ministry. Whether you’re stepping down from a church or leaving a Christian nonprofit, it’s not as simple as just changing jobs. Suddenly, everything changes. You’re left navigating not just a career transition, but also a profound shift in identity, community, and daily routines. It feels like stepping into an unknown, filled with questions like, ”What now? What’s next? How do I redefine myself outside the ministry? How do I maintain my faith amidst this transition?” Welcome to the Life After Ministry Podcast. We’ve been there, navigating the complex journey from vocational ministry to a new chapter in our lives. We’ll explore stories of transformation, hear from those who’ve walked this path before, and provide practical strategies to turn your transition into transformation.
Episodes
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How Father-Son Ministry Succession Works (featuring Jonathan & David Shibley)
Who gets to lead when the founder is still in the room? For David and Jonathan Shibley, that question came with another relationship to protect: father and son. On Life After Ministry, I talk with them about the succession at Global Advance and the choices that helped it work. Jonathan served for...
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Lessons From 100 Ministry Transitions Stories (featuring the Ministry Transitions Team)
The church has a plan for who’s preaching next Sunday. Who’s checking on the pastor’s family on Monday? For episode 100, our team at Ministry Transitions - Bill Tom, Matt Davis, Noe Rivera, and Ron Henry - talk about what has surprised us, what still breaks our hearts, and why we keep hearing, “I...
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Succession Planning for the Ministry You Love (featuring Robin Fuller)
Why is it so hard to let go of a ministry you love before something forces the decision? Robin Fuller knows firsthand. After more than 23 years in pregnancy center ministry, she burned out and heard that only about 10 percent of ministry leaders finish well. She decided to be part of that 10...
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Leaving a Gift Or a Legacy? (featuring Anthony Barton)
Anthony Barton was a successful business owner when a trust attorney asked what his family mission statement was - not his business one. That question pushed him beyond leaving a gift toward building a legacy, and within 90 days he and his family were serving in Swaziland. Cancer later clarified...
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Leading Through the Trust Jungle (featuring Rob McKenna)
What happens when trust breaks inside a church, nonprofit, or leadership team? Dr. Rob McKenna explains why trust is more than a feeling, how leaders can rebuild it after failure, and why succession is really the transfer of trust. This conversation explores emotional maturity, candor,...
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Holding Gratitude & Grief (featuring Dennis Atwood)
Most ministry leaders expect to decide when they step away. Dennis Atwood never had that opportunity. After serving churches for nearly three decades, Dennis was diagnosed with early-onset Parkinson's disease. He quietly carried the diagnosis for years before the progression of the disease forced...
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When Home Becomes the Mission Field (featuring Nate & Brittany Bruns)
Missionaries spend years preparing to go to the field, but few are prepared for what it feels like to come home. After serving six years in Germany, Nate and Brittany Bruns share the unexpected challenges of returning to the United States, navigating reverse culture shock, raising third-culture...
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Ministry, Mercy & Moving Forward (featuring Scott Sauls)
Few ministry leaders expect the end of their pastoral chapter to unfold differently than they imagined. Yet for many, transition arrives carrying both grief and unexpected opportunity. In this honest conversation, Scott Sauls reflects on stepping away after more than 30 years of pastoral…
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Healthy Pastors Plan Healthy Exits (featuring Keith Spurgin)
Founder transitions are some of the most difficult moments in ministry leadership, but they don't have to end poorly. After leading the church he planted for 27 years, Keith Spurgin shares the lessons he learned about succession, feedback, sabbaticals, and letting go with confidence. He also...
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Finding Ministry at Home Depot (featuring Steve Cummings)
Many leaders secretly believe their value comes from what they do. But what happens when the title disappears, the ministry ends, or life takes a turn you never expected? In this deeply personal conversation, Steve Cummings shares his journey through ministry leadership, addiction recovery, job...
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Hope Is Within Reach (featuring Gary Blackard)
Most leaders know succession planning matters. Far fewer know how to start the conversation. In this episode, Gary Blackard, President and CEO of Adult & Teen Challenge USA, shares lessons from leading a national ministry, navigating leadership transitions, and helping people find hope in the…
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No Elevator to Everest (featuring Will Acuff)
Success in ministry can hide struggles that few people ever see. While Will Acuff was helping build a nonprofit that would eventually launch thousands of entrepreneurs and transform communities, his family was walking through years of exhaustion, medical challenges, and uncertainty. The contrast...
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A Wealth of Ministry Outside of Ministry (featuring Shawn Gwaltney)
Leaving ministry is rarely a simple decision. For many pastors, it comes after years of carrying responsibility, managing expectations, and trying to care for everyone around them while quietly neglecting themselves and their families. In this episode, Shawn Gwaltney shares the story of how...
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Mending the Fracturing Church (featuring Dr. Andrew Hale)
The Church is carrying more tension than many leaders know how to navigate. Political polarization, fractured trust, rising anxiety, and unrealistic expectations on pastors are reshaping congregations across the country. In this conversation, Dr. Andrew Hale shares why he believes the Church is…
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The Imperfect CEO (featuring Jim Brown)
Leadership transitions often expose something many leaders spend years trying to hide: the fear that they are not enough for the role they carry. Whether it is a pastor navigating succession, a nonprofit executive facing organizational change, or a CEO realizing old leadership methods no longer...
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How to Hand Off a Church Without Losing It (featuring Wayne Hoag)
Church transitions often expose what has been neglected for years. In this conversation, longtime pastor Wayne Hoag reflects on the painful lessons he learned after leaving one church unprepared for his departure and how that experience shaped a completely different approach to succession later…
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Missing Links in Ministry Successions (featuring John Pearson)
Leadership transitions often don’t fail in the moment they happen. They begin to unravel long before that. In unclear expectations, undefined roles, and decisions made without discernment. This episode explores how fear, lack of clarity, and misaligned leadership structures quietly shape…
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Lost in Transition (featuring Steve Woodworth)
Succession is one of the most important moments in the life of a ministry. And one of the most misunderstood. After decades working with leading Christian organizations, Steve Woodworth has watched leadership transitions unfold from behind the scenes. Some created momentum and clarity. Others...
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Leading Christian Organizations Through Change (featuring Tami Heim)
Leadership often looks clear in hindsight, but confusing in the moment. For Tami Heim, the journey into leadership began with a dramatic shift in ambition. Just days after graduating college, she surrendered her plans to follow Christ, stepping into a life where leadership was no longer about...
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A Conversation About Invisible Grief (featuring Drew Hensley)
There’s a kind of grief that doesn’t come with a clear loss. No funeral. No ending. Just the quiet ache of something that never came to be. For many in ministry, this kind of grief goes unnamed and unaddressed. Drew Hensley calls it “invisible grief.” It’s the pain of unrealized hopes, whether...
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Leadership Was Never My Calling (featuring Eric Reid)
Many ministry leaders begin their journey with a genuine desire to serve. But somewhere along the way, leadership can quietly become something else. Platforms grow. Expectations rise. Applause becomes affirmation. And before long, influence begins to shape identity. Eric Reid spent years…
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The New Dawn of Retirement (featuring Doug Bullock)
What happens when a pastor steps away after decades of leading a church? Many leaders imagine retirement will bring peace and freedom. But for pastors, the transition often carries unexpected weight. The loss of identity, the quiet grief of leaving a community, and the challenge of rediscovering...
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Why Men Need Men in Transition (featuring Don Ross)
What happens when the calling that once defined you no longer feels sustainable? When the work you love begins to cost you more than you can carry? For many ministry leaders, the hardest battles are not theological. They are personal. Emotional. Quiet. And often fought alone. In this episode…
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The Next Season WITH God (featuring Curt Swindoll)
Is there really a difference between ministry and the marketplace? Or have we created a divide that Scripture never intended? In this episode, Curt Swindoll shares insights from 40 years of leadership across nonprofit, church, and for-profit environments. Having transitioned multiple times -...
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Leaving Without Losing Continuity (featuring Chuck Proudfit)
What if the biggest lie Christian leaders believe is that ministry only happens inside church walls? When pastors and nonprofit leaders transition into the marketplace, many feel like they’ve stepped out of calling and into something lesser. But that assumption may be the very thing limiting the...
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The Wilderness Is Not a Detour (featuring Dustin Kleinschmidt)
Most ministry leaders expect relief after stepping away. What they don’t expect is the wilderness to begin after the resignation. In this honest conversation, Dustin Kleinschmidt shares how years of crisis leadership, misaligned values, and unresolved grief led to burnout, anxiety, and a deep...
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The Transition I Planned...The Transition I Got (featuring Jim West)
Stepping away from leadership is rarely just a strategic decision. It’s personal. Emotional. Spiritual. Especially for founders and long-term leaders who have poured their lives into a ministry. In this episode, Jim West reflects on what it meant to hand off leadership of the Barnabas Group, a...
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The Year-End Transition Checklist
Most ministry transitions don’t happen suddenly. They happen slowly, quietly, and later than they should. In this season-ending episode, we reflect on the patterns Ministry Transitions has seen over the past year while walking with pastors, boards, nonprofits, and faith-driven organizations. From...
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When Time Becomes Our Boss (featuring Andrew Hartman)
At some point in ministry, we start confusing busyness for faithfulness. We tell ourselves that exhaustion is just the cost of obedience - that being needed, stretched thin, and constantly available somehow means we’re doing it right. But deep down, we know something’s wrong. In this episode of...
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Leaving Before You See What's Next (featuring Brad Gray & Brad Nelson)
Most pastors imagine ministry as a lifelong calling, until something shifts - slowly, painfully, or all at once. In this episode, Brad Gray and Brad Nelson share their unfiltered stories of leaving pastoral ministry, wrestling through uncertainty, and discovering the faithful presence of God in...
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The Fourth-Quarter Question (featuring Dr. Nathan Baxter)
Dr. Nathan Baxter loved ten hours of his job. Those one-on-ones with staff fueled him. The rest slowly emptied him. Naming that truth started a two-year journey out of a role he’d held for decades. He didn’t abandon ministry. He changed vehicles so his calling could breathe again. In this...
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Real-Time Grace at the Speed of Jesus (featuring Duncan Robinson)
When the role that once fit like a second skin begins to suffocate, what do you do? For Duncan Robinson, it meant stepping away. No scandal. No collapse. Just honesty and courage to say, “I need to sit down and be fed.” That decision took him from church staff to radio hosting, from the pulpit to...
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A Christian Attorney on Ending Well (featuring John Melcon)
Ministry employment isn’t just HR. It’s covenant community, stewardship, and public witness. In this episode, attorney and former ministry leader John Melcon explains how churches and nonprofits can handle staff transitions without abandoning their values or ignoring real risks. John shares his…
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Building Mental Fitness in Ministry (featuring Vineet Rajan)
Quiet fatigue rarely announces itself. It hums under the surface until a crisis forces a decision. In this conversation, Marine veteran and Forte co-founder Vineet Rajan reframes care for leaders as mental fitness - a proactive, daily practice that keeps pastors and nonprofit teams clear-headed,...
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The Silent Cost of Transitions on Ministry Wives (featuring Kristen Joy Humiston)
When termination happens behind a closed door, the impact lands in the kitchen, the car line, and the kids’ bedrooms. In this episode, pastor’s wife Kristen Joy Humiston tells the story of being shut out of the room, hearing “you’re done here,” and driving home past the houses of those who voted...
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Finding Significance Again (featuring Joshua Gordon)
When a beloved role ends, identity gets loud. In this candid conversation, Joshua Gordon traces his journey from ministry-adjacent entrepreneur to a surprising new assignment after his business collapsed in COVID. A trusted friend’s hard words, deep prayer, and patient community became “spiritual...
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Leaving Willow, Finding Wilderness (featuring Steve Carter)
When the New York Times ran with allegations surrounding Willow Creek’s founding pastor, Steve Carter had a choice: keep the machine running or protect the trust of the people in the room. He chose integrity - and walked away from the stage that had defined his career. In this conversation, Steve...
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Why Ministry Leaders Don’t Talk About Retirement (featuring Gabe Pelphrey)
Many pastors find themselves at the end of their ministry career unable to retire - not because they lack calling, but because they lack financial security. Churches often avoid the money conversation, leaving leaders stuck in the pulpit longer than they should be. In this episode, financial...
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How the ECFA Is Redefining Care for Church Leaders (featuring Jake Lapp)
Behind every thriving ministry is a foundation you can’t always see - standards, accountability, and trust. Without them, the most passionate vision can unravel overnight. In this episode of Life After Ministry, ECFA’s Jake Lapp explains why accountability matters not just for auditors and boards...
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Why Ministry Needs a Mental Health Strategy (featuring Laura Howe)
What happens when the very act of caring for others leaves you depleted? Laura Howe, founder of Hope Made Strong, knows firsthand the toll of compassion fatigue. From her own season of burnout came a global movement equipping churches to address mental health with wisdom and grace. In this...
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Deeply Loved: Why Empathy Is Oxygen for the Soul (featuring Bill & Kristi Gaultiere)
What if the missing piece in your leadership is not more strategy but more empathy? Bill and Kristi Gaultiere say empathy is oxygen for the soul, and many leaders are gasping without realizing it. They join Matt to unpack how Jesus models secure attachment with the Father and how we can receive…
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Reflecting on Season Four: A Journey of Growth
Sixty episodes. More than 70,000 downloads. And countless stories of leaders who’ve walked through suffering, loss, and transition - and discovered God’s faithfulness in the middle of it all. In this season finale, Matt Davis pauses to look back on the lessons of Season Four. From…
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Starting Scared: Why You're More Ready Than You Think (featuring Holly Tate)
What if waiting until you’re ready keeps you from ever starting? In this episode of Life After Ministry, Matt Davis sits down with Holly Tate, founder of The Ready Network, to talk about leadership, courage, and stepping into the unknown. Holly shares her own story of transition - from years at...
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Ministry Transitions Nobody Prepares You For (featuring Tim Stevens)
Every ministry transition comes with both a push and a pull. Sometimes you’re drawn toward a new calling. Other times you simply know you can’t stay. For Tim Stevens, those moments have shaped four decades of leadership in the church - and given him a front-row seat to hundreds of leaders...
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Absolute Best Practices of Nonprofit Boards (featuring Dr. Michael Anthony)
What if the health of your ministry depends more on your board than you think? Dr. Michael Anthony has spent 40 years in boardrooms - as a member, chair, consultant, and C-suite leader - and he’s seen what works and what breaks ministries apart. In this candid conversation, Dr. Anthony unpacks...
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Positioned for This: Succession, Calling, and the Next Chapter (featuring Ron Henry)
What happens when a leader transitions not just into a new role - but into their calling? In this episode, Matt Davis introduces Ron Henry, the newly appointed Chief Succession Officer at Ministry Transitions. Ron brings decades of experience in executive placement and career development, but his...
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Balancing the Business Brain and the Pastoral Heart (featuring Dave Fletcher)
What do scuba diving, salary spreadsheets, and severance packages have in common? According to David Fletcher - everything. In this episode, Matt sits down with the founder of xPastor and longtime executive pastor, David Fletcher, to talk about the messy, complicated, and deeply human work of...
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"Ministry Didn't End, It Just Moved" (featuring Josh Taylor)
What if the scariest thing about leaving ministry wasn’t the loss of your job - but the loss of your identity? In this episode, Matt sits down with Josh Taylor, former executive pastor turned chief marketing officer, who opens up about what it’s really like to step off the platform and into the...
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Faithly and the Future of Ministry Connection (featuring Alicia Lee)
Alicia Lee didn’t leave ministry. She left Wall Street. After nearly two decades at Goldman Sachs, Alicia was managing a massive trading floor and rubbing shoulders with IPO titans. She loved the fast pace. She was good at it. And then God pulled the plug. A missed promotion became a divine pivot…
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Redeployed, Not Retired (featuring Jon Talbert)
What do you do when ministry success comes at the cost of your soul? In this episode, we sit down with Jon Talbert - pastor, coach, and co-founder of Forte - to talk about the quiet unraveling that often happens behind the scenes in leadership. Jon has led at the highest levels of church and...
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ABOUT THIS SHOW
Many of us have experienced the sting of losing a job. But there’s something uniquely challenging about leaving a position in full-time vocational ministry.
Whether you’re stepping down from a church or leaving a Christian nonprofit, it’s not as simple as just changing jobs. Suddenly, everything changes. You’re left navigating not just a career transition, but also a profound shift in identity, community, and daily routines.
It feels like stepping into an unknown, filled with questions like, ”What now? What’s next? How do I redefine myself outside the ministry? How do I maintain my faith amidst this transition?”
Welcome to the Life After Ministry Podcast. We’ve been there, navigating the complex journey from vocational ministry to a new chapter in our lives. We’ll explore stories of transformation, hear from those who’ve walked this path before, and provide practical strategies to turn your transition into transformation.
HOSTED BY
Matt Davis
CATEGORIES
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Frequently Asked Questions
How many episodes does Life After Ministry have?
Life After Ministry currently has 101 episodes available on PodParley. New episodes are automatically indexed when they're published to the podcast feed.
What is Life After Ministry about?
Many of us have experienced the sting of losing a job. But there’s something uniquely challenging about leaving a position in full-time vocational ministry. Whether you’re stepping down from a church or leaving a Christian nonprofit, it’s not as simple as just changing jobs. Suddenly, everything...
How often does Life After Ministry release new episodes?
Life After Ministry publishes regularly with 101 episodes available. Check the episode list for the typical release schedule.
Where can I listen to Life After Ministry?
You can listen to Life After Ministry on PodParley by clicking any episode. We provide an embedded audio player for direct listening, and you can also subscribe via your preferred podcast app using the RSS feed.
Who hosts Life After Ministry?
Life After Ministry is created and hosted by Matt Davis.
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