Mormon Discussion by Bill Reel

Who won the debate? Bill Reel or Robert Gurr? Bill Reel and RFM dissect Bill’s recent debate about Mormonism with Robert Gurr. This one is going to be a lot of fun! Don’t miss it! The post Another Mormon Bites The Dust! appeared first on Mormon Discussion by Bill Reel.

Today we take a look at the connections between Masonry and Mormon rituals. We explore what the prophet Joseph Smith claimed about the Temple Endowment, and how the Modern Church and its apologists frame the endowment today. We look at the changes that have happened overtime with an emphasis on the penalty oaths and signs with a focus on recognizing those penalties are in some ways still present within the temple endowment. RESOURCES: http://www.ldsendowment.org/index.html http://www.ldsendowment.org/masonry.html http://www.ldsendowment.org/timeline.html https://mit.irr.org/mormon-temple-endowment-ceremony https://thoughtsonthingsandstuff.com/pre-1990-temple-endowment/ https://www.jstor.org/stable/45228107?seq=1 https://www.sacred-texts.com/mas/dun/dun03.htm http://www.ldsendowment.org/1931.html http://www.rickgrunder.com/Newspapers%20for%20Sale/lucindaharris.htm The post Mormon Discussion: 363: Signs, Tokens & Penalties – The LDS Mormon Temple Ceremony appeared first on Mormon Discussion by Bill Reel.

Mormon Discussion: 362: The LDS Church’s 2021 Membership Statistical Report Bill takes a look at the 2021 membership numbers the LDS Church released coinciding with the April 2022 General Conference to examine what the numbers say & what they don’t say, and if they can be trusted. The post Mormon Discussion: 362: The LDS Church’s 2021 Membership Statistical Report appeared first on Mormon Discussion by Bill Reel.

Bill and RFM dive into the apocryphal book of Judith and point out the many similarities between that apocryphal story and the Book of Mormon’s story about Nephi and his encounter and eventual beheading of Laban. RESOURCES: https://debunking-cesletter.com/book-of-mormon-1/view-of-the-hebrews-joseph-smith-sr-dream/ http://jur.byu.edu/?p=21296 https://rsc.byu.edu/doctrine-covenants-revelations-context/joseph-smith-emanuel-swedenborg-section-76-importance-bible https://i.redd.it/uckai9n1qyn81.jpg https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/manual/doctrine-and-covenants-student-manual/section-91-the-apocrypha?lang=eng https://www.ksl.com/article/11790001/joseph-smith-family-bible-goes-on-sale https://i.redd.it/71fpzs9h69x01.png https://www.slideshare.net/canadaduane/the-late-war-the-book-of-mormon-and-big-data http://wordtree.org/thelatewar/ https://www.fairlatterdaysaints.org/answers/Question:_Did_Joseph_Smith_create_the_story_of_Nephi_and_Laban_by_plagiarizing_concepts_and_phrases_from_the_story_of_Judith_and_Holofernes_in_the_Apocrypha%3F https://ebible.org/pdf/eng-kjv/eng-kjv_JDT.pdf The post Mormonism LIVE: 071: Nephi & Judith – Beheadings & other Similarities appeared first on Mormon Discussion by Bill Reel.

RFM and Bill sit down once again with Dan Vogel and Brent Metcalfe to examine the problems with the Book of Abraham as a translation of an ancient document in a sacred text for Mormonism generally and the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints specifically. Dan and Brent share their scholarship and help us grasp some of the messiness around this issue. The post Mormonism LIVE: 070: Critical Scholarship and Book of Abraham Historicity appeared first on Mormon Discussion by Bill Reel.

Bill Reel and RFM will dive into Mormon Gaslighting. They will discuss the psychology of gaslighting, discuss its origin, and then delve into a handful of examples among the hundreds that could be explored and conclude discussing the harm that comes to the one being gaslit. RESOURCES: https://mormonismlive.org/wp-content/uploads/2022/04/Gaslighting-Examples.pdf Movie Gaslight – https://youtu.be/UYmtzaHwCKo?t=828 Elder Ballard not knowing where Baptism invitations after the first discussion came from – https://www.thechurchnews.com/leaders-and-ministry/2019-06-26/president-ballard-said-missionaries-shouldnt-invite-people-to-be-baptized-without-feeling-the-spirit-heres-why-701 Where Baptism invitations after the first discussion came from – https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/bc/content/shared/content/english/pdf/language-materials/36617_eng.pdf Mormons not getting their own planet – https://l.facebook.com/l.php?u=https%3A%2F%2Fnews-ca.churchofjesuschrist.org%2Farticle%2Fmormonism-101-faq%3Ffbclid%3DIwAR0V8Q2Ti4xp1oUJ5-xDnOrGE5oBxaP43_fLetCr31Z1Qc5n3Rhm0KlDuds&h=AT3P_IMMUNCvo18LtNAbs3zw8i7Y2LAgJk_b9y80Mw8AyOhEtDsWgZYsVoDVIM1CKJYoiKjPq3FWgcb1yhFOokdzL3D9Nh2brA5WfewMZSXAHX4UFB4loc4s4ob1hdz4XO0 Mormons getting their own planet – https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/broadcasts/article/christmas-devotional/2018/12/four-gifts-that-jesus-christ-offers-to-you?lang=eng Mormons getting their own planet – https://youtu.be/sd52qp2mxC8?t=941 Mormons getting their own planet – https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/bc/content/shared/content/english/pdf/language-materials/31129_eng.pdf Ronald Poelman 1984 – https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6qIr30dtCvo Mormonism has never been racist – https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/study/ensign/2000/09/no-more-strangers?lang=eng Mormonism’s Racism – https://www.mormonstories.org/other/Lowry_Nelson_1st_Presidency_Exchange.pdf Mormonism’s Racism – https://www.fairlatterdaysaints.org/answers/Mormonism_and_racial_issues/Blacks_and_the_priesthood/Statements#1949 Mormonism’s Racism – https://missedinsunday.com/memes/race/pure-blood/ Mormonism’s Racism – https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_people_and_Mormonism Elder Oaks laughing about hiding the 1832 account and Elder Ballard saying we never hid anything – https://youtu.be/Uj2VWhuW50w?t=2849 Weird Alma Song Gaslighting – https://weirdalma.bandcamp.com/track/gaslighting Spencer Kimball Gaslighting about Adam-God Doctrine – https://www.fairlatterdaysaints.org/answers/Mormonism_and_doctrine/Repudiated_concepts/Adam-God_theory?fbclid=IwAR2v60FTK6jT1Imxro1VKvhPXOx8e2HXftteH2t5iOlk2_TkRbxaxTrbFCE Bruce R McConkie Gaslighting regarding Adam-God – https://faenrandir.github.io/a_careful_examination/bruce-r-mcconkie-misled-on-adam-god/ The post Mormonism LIVE: 069: Gaslighting From Mormon Leadership appeared first on Mormon Discussion by Bill Reel.

David Peck, host of the podcast “Of Saints and Sufis” sits down with Bill Reel to explore the juxtaposition of Religion & Spirituality. They dive into what it means for Bill to describe himself as an atheist and a mystic and they then explore where Religion seems to miss the mark defining the undefinable while… Read More »Guest Episode: Bill Reel & David Peck – Religion & Spirituality The post Guest Episode: Bill Reel & David Peck – Religion & Spirituality appeared first on Mormon Discussion by Bill Reel.

RFM and Bill Reel sit down with special guests to discuss what The LDS Church looks like in Africa and how its membership upon this continent is affected uniquely. The post Mormonism LIVE: 068: Out of Africa appeared first on Mormon Discussion by Bill Reel.

TikToker under name “nuancehoe”. In our conversation we delve into Prophets, Evolution, the argument against there being free will, and if time we hope to delve into dogma as debated by Sam Harris and Jordan Peterson Resources: The post Mormonism LIVE: 067: nuancehoe Carah Burrell appeared first on Mormon Discussion by Bill Reel.

RFM and Bill sit down with David Bokovoy and with a title like that, who knows  here the conversation might go………… David Bokovoy holds a PhD in Hebrew Bible and the Ancient Near East and an MA in Near Eastern and Judaic Studies both from Brandeis University. He received his BA from Brigham Young University, majoring in History and minoring in Near Eastern Studies. In addition to his work in Mormon studies, David has published articles on the Hebrew Bible in a variety of academic venues including the Journal of Biblical Literature, Vetus Testamentum, Studies in the Bible and Antiquity, and theFARMS Review. He is the co-author of the book Testaments: Links Between the Book of Mormon and the Hebrew Bible.RESOURCES:https://www.bbc.com/news/magazine-26089486 https://www.frontiersin.org/articles/10.3389/fpsyg.2019.02955/full https://theconversation.com/homosexuality-may-have-evolved-for-social-not-sexual-reasons-128123 https://www.amazon.com/Mating-in-Captivity-Esther-Perel-audiobook/dp/B000IB0EYI/ref=sr_1_1?crid=37GYYI3COZDM6&keywords=mating+captivity&qid=1646880888&sprefix=mating+cap%2Caps%2C127&sr=8-1 The post Mormonism LIVE: 066: David Bokovoy – Sex, Eden and The Family appeared first on Mormon Discussion by Bill Reel.

What happens when rather than get in close to the sticky issues of Mormonism you step back? In fact step back so far as to see the 30,000 foot view and look at what Mormonism has standing in the way of its truth claims. And how such speaks to just how reasonable and rational it is to release one’s belief in the faith and to step away having allowed oneself to be a rational logical critical thinking human being. What happens when rather than get in close to the sticky issues of Mormonism you step back? In fact step back so far as to see the 30,000 foot view and look at what Mormonism has standing in the way of its truth claims. And how such speaks to just how reasonable and rational it is to release one’s belief in the faith and to step away having allowed oneself to be a rational logical critical thinking human being. Scriptural Issues Book of Mormon 19th Century Material Book of Mormon Anachronisms Plagiarism from New Testament Book of Abraham issues Bible Translation plagiarized from Adam Clarke’s commentary Theological changes in canon over time 2nd and 3rd Isaiah Spiritual Manifestation Issue Moroni vs Nephi First Vision Discrepancies Seeing the Cumorah Cave in Palmyra New York in spite of being a clean hill Peter James and John PH restoration added late Moroni blessing Manti Brigham Young Transfiguration Issues with Joseph Smith’s Character Lying about polygamy to Emma and others Manipulating Lucy Walker Pattern of approaching girls or young women in his home for intimate relationships (Lucy Walker, Fanny Alger, Partridge Sisters, Lawrence Sisters) Polyandry Nancy Rigdon & The Happiness Letter Underage girls (two 14 year olds, two 16 year olds, two 17 year olds) Treasure Digging Other financial frauds: Kirtland anti-bank, land issues, bad loans Science and Critical Thinking Great Flood Tower of Babel Shiz rises after head cut off 2000 stripling warriors in a battle with a more experienced larger military force and not a single soul was lost not to the battle and not to infection afterwards inspite of many fainting from bloodloss Battles in the Millions around Cumorah and what it takes to have military engagement that large Moroni blessing Manti Trans Oceanic Voyage Lamanite DNA Age of the earth & Evolution Church Administration Second Anointings 100’s of Billions of dollars saved in investments rather than solving world problems Nepotism Leaders are insulated and promote yes men Well paid Leaders SCMC Past Prophetic Deception Adam God Doctrine Racial Curse and Racial Valiancy Joseph Smith mock wedding with Partridge Sisters Treasure Digging Mountain Meadows (Brigham’s destruction of the marker and lying about it and blaming the Native Americans) 1890, 1904 Manifesto 1933 lying about the 1886 John Taylor Revelation Modern Prophetic Deception Elder Holland (BBC Interview, Story about missionary meeting his brother, Double Digit Stake Creation every week of our lives) Paul Dunn President Nelson (Flight of Death, Zimbabwe, Lady in the hat) Bruce R McConkie lying about Brigham teaching Adam God Elder Oaks lying about Electroshock Therapy at BYU under his presidency Whitewashing and carefully worded denials of the Gospel Topic Essays Tom Monson Jr Quinton Cook – Hospital Gordon B Hinkley “I don’t know that we teach it. I don’t know that we emphasize it” Ronald Poelman and the re-do of his conference talk False or embellished Faith Promoting stories Seagulls and Crickets Sweetwater Crossing Holland, Nelson yarn stretchers Brigham Young Transfiguration Whale of a tale Wilfor Woodruff Founding Fathers Lorenzo Snow’s Jesus Visitation Trauma Placed On Members Temple (Sexism, Objectifying Women, Penalties) One on One interviews with children and others by an untrained clergy “Worthiness” interviews Toxic Perfectionism Patriarchy Marginalizing women Marginalization of people of color Destruction of idiginous people’s identity “Indian Placement Program” Diminishing those who lose faith with labels (chaff, lazy, sinful) Not having a single good story about those who leave Gaslighting people continuously regarding their history All the harm with polygamy Claiming Tithing will get you out of Poverty Social Issues Women have lesser place in mortality and in heaven Church still currently maintains that God actually sorted people via their skin color (Be One Celebration) Church imposes significant harm on LGBT members Civil Rights was Communism Not Proactive or reactive on Sexual Abuse People who stop believing are less than and believers should stay at distance Always 30-40 years late on almost every social issue in spite of being led by Prophets, Seers, and Revelators Global/government influences: Defeating ERA, Prop 8, LDS Senator votes for Iraqi War “where boots go, missionaries follow,” the two LDS men (one a Bishop) part of US Govt torture program, cultural appropriation/erasure among Native Americans, Polynesians etc, lobbying against church clergy being mandatory reporters, attempt to make Utah a two-party recording consent state, etc Stop here and discuss how every facet of Mormonism’s truth claims when dealt with logically are in favor of the critic.  That when understood collectively, the only fall back Mormonism has is Spiritual Testimony.   That in spite of all the issues, I still believe because I know by the Holy Ghost that it is true.  Except the Holy Ghost doesn’t get a free pass Ineffectiveness of the Holy Ghost as a tool to convey truth Elevation Emotion Illusory Truth Effect Taking Seriously the Spiritual experiences of those outside your faith How completely wrong past leaders were in spite of their “Knowing” How wrong members have been at past times holding views with certainty when such views have been abandoned or disavowed Holy Ghost can be tested and it does no better than no Holy Ghost Leaders have been deceived members have been deceived And as if that isn’t enough if you apply the same critical thinking to Jesus of Nazareth you end up having another pillar of challenges that hits at the truth of Mormonism (Though I admit also all of Christianity) Historical Jesus Dating of New Testament Authors Wrestling with New Testament gospel contradictions Understanding the prevalent views of Biblical Criticism How myths are created (Sapiens) How stories easily get embellished (compare with Mormonism) How much easier in an age of unverifiable history When supernatural happens and when it doesn’t Issues with the nativity narrative BONUS ROUND (Not Covered In Episode) Immoral, harmful beliefs taught as moral and good. Problems with the concept of “fallen” man (unnecessary guilt and/or lack of personal accountability) Idolizing parricide as act of “love” and “loyalty” (God + Abraham) Justifying God’s abusive and narcissistic behaviors as “love” Forgiveness expected for misbehaving leaders “give Brother Joseph a break” Lack of empathy/blame for victims Theological: the Flood, Hell for non-believers, misfortune as punishment (LGBTQ, apostates, etc) Local/current: blaming SA victims, clergy abuse victims, etc Internal morality given to God or those perceived to speak for him Biblical atrocities excused, even genocide Gives space for modern atrocities to be committed/accepted (even victims sometimes) Early and modern polygamy/underage rape/trafficking Modern spouse/child abuse Murder, theft, imprisonment of apostates/defectors/outsiders (Oliver Cowdery, Danites, Lori Vallow/Chad Daybell) Obligations to support systems that harm self/others (sexism, Prop 8, etc) Personal choices/freedoms overridden in favor of the group ideals The post Mormonism LIVE: 065: Mormonism & The 30,000 Foot View appeared first on Mormon Discussion by Bill Reel.

Mormonism LIVE: 064: The Role of Women In The Church RFM and Bill dive into the issue of Women in the Church and their role. What does the Church want women to think and believe and what does the system of Mormonism actually tell Women about their place within the Church? We have a guest on Nicole, who along with Maven share their personal journey navigating the hurtful and unhealthy sexist messaging of the LDS Church. The post Mormonism LIVE: 064: The Role of Women In The Church appeared first on Mormon Discussion by Bill Reel.

Bill Reel, Executive Director of Mormon Discussion Inc., was interviewed on 2.233.22 on 21st Century Saints.  Check them out at https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCLESyNtVAdYF52HVt5Cu-Ew  This interview can be watched from there channel here.  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oVzaIc7oDD8 Please Subscribe to our friends across the waters.  They do great work, please consider supporting them. The post Bill Reel – Executive Director of Mormon Discussion Inc. Interviewed by 21st Century Saints appeared first on Mormon Discussion by Bill Reel.

The earliest account of the First Vision poses some conflict within Mormon Truth Claims about what Joseph Smith experienced and what was invented about the Founding event in Mormonism. If there is no First Vision, there is significant reason to believe the rest of Mormonism is on shaky ground. So how do apologists deal with the 1832 account of that First Vision and what does logic and common sense say about that. RESOURCES: https://www.ldsliving.com/a-closer-look-at-critiques-of-joseph-smiths-first-vision/s/92128 https://www.josephsmithpapers.org/paper-summary/history-circa-summer-1832/1 https://www.fairlatterdaysaints.org/answers/Question:_Why_is_Joseph_Smith%27s_struggle_with_Satan_not_mentioned_in_the_1832_account_of_the_First_Vision%3F https://www.fairlatterdaysaints.org/answers/Question:_Was_Joseph_Smith%27s_First_Vision_Vision_set_in_heaven_or_on_earth%3F https://www.dropbox.com/s/ooewni4lmhdul9m/Rod%20Decker-Vogel-Peterson-2004.wmv?dl=0 https://www.dropbox.com/s/tooif2mz619x5h2/Brad%20Wilcox%201st%20Vision.mp4?dl=0 The post Mormonism LIVE: 063: First Vision Apologetics appeared first on Mormon Discussion by Bill Reel.

BYU has a history of manipulating & pressuring its educators into consistently stopping short of teaching modern best accepted ideas and research. While it claims to be a university that values education what it really does it limit the critical thinking skills and works to prevent its students from having access to the best information. We start by discussing the modern moment where BYU has changed its policy around the worthiness of BYU and CES Educators to control what is taught in the classroom and then we dive deep into the past to show the more things change the more they stay the same. And lastly we demonstrate that agency really is a value that The Church’s mouth writes but their actions just aren’t cashing. A.) BYU’s (All of CES) New policy for its staff (Notice the Church speaks officially for BYU as it is one and the same) The old Wording vs the new wording The new policy is: “to hold and be worthy to hold a current temple recommend.” The Old policy is “ “accept as a condition of employment the standards of conduct consistent with qualifying for temple privileges” Friend and One of the Mole Professors I have on the inside of BYU. (We’ll call him Elder Dyches for anonymity) “Elder Dyches” told me that “Under that condition, I could tell my bishop I qualify, but am not interested in having a recommend and it wouldn’t affect my employment.” The permutations of such a change Gives more control to Salt Lake over local leaders and the CES staff those leaders have stewardship for as “worthiness issues arise in an employees behavior (AKA – Apostate Teachings in Seminary or BYU college classes Imagine Pressure to stay in line this adds.  Is it significant? Maybe not versus the old wording but it absolutely feels like additional undue influence.  BYU is simply looking for just cause AKA – breaking the “Worthiness Standard”.  Even if on a loophole that involves abusive underhanded methods intended to manipulate people into obedience and loyalty over conscience. B.) Which led me to wanting to share with you The 1911 Brigham Young University modernity controversy In 1907, then BYU president George H. Brimhall (No you silly gooses Elder Oaks wasn’t BYU president back then.  He’s not that old) began hiring a new group of faculty to increase the academic reputation of his school.  His goal “to include in [his] faculty … the best scholars of the church.” (Brimhall was 55 yr old) 1907 Joseph Peterson – Psychology (Joseph Peterson was the first Ph.D on the faculty of BYU) 1907 Henry Peterson – College of Education. 1908 Ralph Vary Chamberlin – Biology 1909 William Henry Chamberlin- Philosophy These were devout Mormons but who were sought out intentionally to bring the Church’s College approach into Modernity including increasing the intellectual atmosphere of the university and community.This led to these four facilitating discussion and debates on evolution and the Bible, and attempting  to convey that evolutionary ideas and Mormon theology were not mutually exclusive, but rather complementary These four professors were popular. They liberal ideas are being met with disapproval Horace H. Cummings, superintendent of the church schools (and largely self-educated) was deeply bothered by the non-approved curriculum being brought in. Church officials accused the professors of promoting heretical views. First Presidency of the LDS church, consisting of Joseph F. Smith, John R. Winder, Anthon H. Lund (Around the beginning of 1910 the First Presidency asked Orson F Whitney to draft an official statement on “the Origin of Man”) It was decided that these men “were out of harmony with the brethren” and Horace H. Cummings offered the Petersons and Ralph Chamberlin a choice: alter their teachings or lose their jobs. Privately, Joseph B. Keeler told Ralph Chamberlin he could stay (His curriculum must have been pretty Vanilla), but he refused, as the Petersons weren’t given the same offer. Brimhall – “There are some people who predict the death of the college if these men go. I am ready to say that if the life of the college depends upon any number of men out of harmony with the brethren who preside over the church, then it is time for the college to die.” Ralph Chamberlin responded during the meeting between these four teachers and the School administration (which included 6 Church leaders) “If you can bring me one student whose faith I have injured in Mormonism, I will bring you five that you, through your narrowness, have driven out of the church. … I never gave a public lecture on evolution until I had consulted you as to whether it would be all right. You urged me to do it. Now, why have you changed suddenly?” Brimhall could only feebly joke, “Well, I’ll tell you, Brother Chamberlin, I know whi ch side my bread’s buttered on.” Unwilling to change their teachings, the Petersons and Ralph Chamberlin left the university in 1911, while William remained for another 5 years, resigning in 1916. The University of Utah in Salt Lake City had a similar controversy — what some at the time described as ‘a tempest in a teapot’ — erupted four years later in February 1915. There, the dismissals of two professors and two instructors by President Joseph T. Kingsbury — and the subsequent resignations of 14 faculty members in protest — launched the American Association of University Professors’ first institutional academic freedom inquest, spearheaded by AAUP founders Arthur O. Lovejoy and John Dewey. The 1911 BYU controversy — involving some of the same professors, including the Peterson brothers and the Chamberlins — led in part to the University of Utah debacle The BYU and University of Utah incidents were a big impetus for the passing of the 1915 declaration of principles on academic freedom and academic tenure Conclusion: The Salt Lake Tribunes many as 80 percent of the faculty sympathized with the Petersons and Chamberlin. When Joseph F. Smith was told that “a number of [Provo] merchants and others favoring the … teachers had withdrawn their patronage from the [White and Blue],” he “spoke up immediately and said that the First Presidency wanted no change in the paper’s policy and … [said] he would instruct [Zion’s Savings Bank] to keep the paper out of financial difficulties.” Smith also admonished his son, Andrew, a student at the high school adjoining BYU: “For my sake, my son, as well as your own[,] eschew the Petersons’ and Chamberlin’s evolution and all such things.” On 13 March over 100 undergraduates assembled on campus in a mass rally to “stand by their teachers.” The students distributed a petition “ratifying and endorsing the teaching of the professors, and praying for their retention by the Board of Trustees.” Of a total college enrollment of 114 undergraduates, as well as a handful of professors, over 90 students and faculty signed the statement, which both the Tribune and the Herald-Republican printed. Predictably, the Deseret News chastised the students for airing their criticisms in print, especially in the Tribune, while Brimhall publicly scolded them for “dictating” to the “prophets.” Brimhall discussing the issue with Reed Smoot – Throughout the following weeks, Brimhall was left to deal as best he could with dissatisfied faculty and students. In mid-May, he wrote again to Smoot, “I would be in perfect misery if I were not in harmony with those over me—I can stand it to be out of harmony with others. My policy has been to follow the interests of our faculty and also follow the interests of the student body, [but] I cannot be expected to follow either of the latter unless they are in perfect harmony with those above me.” Smoot replied supportively, “If the time ever comes that it is impossible for me to be in harmony with my presiding officer, I will quickly resign, if it involves any great principle affecting my conscience or my religious beliefs.” Joseph Keeler (a counselor to Brimhall in the BYU presidency) later asked, “Brother Chamberlin, why can’t you teach this subject the way we want it taught, [instead of] the way you’re teaching it?” Chamberlin replied, “I’m so constituted that I can’t teach what I don’t believe.” Following the controversy, many faculty and students were reluctant to discuss some “matters of scientific and sociological value [p.36]for fear of losing their positions and receiving the boycott of the church.” Others began asking if there were “any [other] doctrines of the church which [were] inconsistent with the commonly accepted conclusions of science.” School trustees approved a new teaching contract in October 1911 which required loyalty to church authorities as a condition of employment. Back to current moment The Voluntary adoption of the new policy Mouth of 2 or 3 witnesses –  “https://catalog.byu.edu/about-byu/administration –  Who is at the head of BYU (They are one and the SAME RESOURCES: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1911_Brigham_Young_University_modernism_controversy In 1911, a professor was fired from BYU for teaching evolution. 80% of student body signed a petition in the Salt Lake Tribune to save him. Today, BYU exhibit describes firing of highly qualified teacher as "righteous sacrifice." from exmormon 13) 3 BYU PROFESSORS: Why did President Joseph F. Smith dismiss three professors from Brigham Young University for teaching organic evolution? https://www.aaup.org/NR/rdonlyres/A6520A9D-0A9A-47B3-B550-C006B5B224E7/0/1915Declaration.pdf George H. Brimhall’s Legacy of Service to Brigham Young University https://en.wikisource.org/wiki/The_Salt_Lake_Tribune/B._Y._U._Students_Destroy_Reply_of_the_Presidency_and_Make_Public_the_Protest_They_Formulated https://www.sltrib.com/religion/2021/09/07/can-unique-byu-really-be/ The Cyclical Nature of BYU’s Religious Education https://byu.us8.list-manage.com/track/click?u=2ba3f012bcd865407204981a0&id=b74a02af7a&e=f9fae89146 https://hrs.byu.edu/byu-employment-standard https://newsroom.churchofjesuschrist.org/article/church-educational-system-employment-standards-refinements https://hrs.byu.edu/byu-employment-standard https://news.byu.edu/announcements/a-message-from-president-worthen http://signaturebookslibrary.org/the-1911-evolution-controversy-at-brigham-young-university/ https://web.archive.org/web/20181013203310/https://www.sunstonemagazine.com/pdf/013-10-16.pdf https://biology.byu.edu/00000172-29e6-d079-ab7e-69efe5890000/byu-evolution-packet https://catalog.byu.edu/about-byu/administration Church Board of Education and Board of Trustees President Russell M. Nelson Chairman President Dallin H. Oaks First Vice Chairman President Henry B. Eyring Second Vice Chairman Elder Jeffrey R. Holland Board Member Elder D. Todd Christofferson Board Member Elder Paul V. Johnson Board Member Elder Michael T. Ringwood Board Member Bishop Gérald Caussé Board Member Sister Jean B. Bingham Board Member Sister Bonnie H. Cordon Board Member Brother Steven J. Lund Board Member R. Kelly Haws Secretary The post Mormonism LIVE: 062: BYU’s Fight Against Modernity Past & Present appeared first on Mormon Discussion by Bill Reel.

RFM and Bill Reel sit down with Dan Vogel and Brent Metcalfe on this week’s episode of Mormonism LIVE ! And you aren’t going to believe the stories these two have. The post Mormonism LIVE: 061: Vogel & Metcalfe In Da HOUSE ! appeared first on Mormon Discussion by Bill Reel.

Tonight’s episode delves into the recent addition to Mormonism LIVE, Maven. Maven recently joined RFM and Bill Reel as the show manager. She does all the dirty work and increases the shows production value and from time to time she adds a powerful informed female voice to the show. Up until now she has remained anonymous and tonight Maven will be for the first time stepping out of anonymity and introduce herself to the audience helping them better get to know her. The post Mormonism LIVE: 060: The Unmasking of Maven appeared first on Mormon Discussion by Bill Reel.

Mormon Discussion: 361: Revisiting my Understanding of the First Vision I wanted to sit down and have a conversation with you about how I learned, understood, and contextualize various topics within Mormonism. In this episode we do that around the First Vision RESOURCES: https://www.dialoguejournal.com/wp-content/uploads/sbi/articles/Dialogue_V47N02_210.pdf https://youtu.be/Uj2VWhuW50w?t=2795 https://www.josephsmithpapers.org/paper-summary/history-circa-summer-1832/1 https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/study/magazines/before-2021/new-era?lang=eng The post Mormon Discussion: 361: Revisiting my Understanding of the First Vision appeared first on Mormon Discussion by Bill Reel.

RFM and Bill Reel sit down with Kelly Whited Jones and Jana Spangler to dive into the history and current standing of Women and the Equal Rights Amendment and specifically that history within Utah and the Mormon Church. Resources: utaheracoalition.org The post Mormonism LIVE: 059: The Equal Rights Amendment and Utah appeared first on Mormon Discussion by Bill Reel.

Playing off of last week’s “Two Hills Cumorah” episode we investigate the claim of a “2nd Watson letter”. What we find is not only more apologist obfuscations but perhaps one of the biggest underhanded maneuvers LDS apologists have ever pulled off. The post Mormonism LIVE: 058: Mormon Apologist Skullduggery – The Mystery of the Second Watson Letter appeared first on Mormon Discussion by Bill Reel.

How Elevation Emotion is used as a trump card and corrupted by giving it a new name, that of “The Holy Ghost” The post Mormon Discussion: 360: The Holy Ghost as a Trump Card appeared first on Mormon Discussion by Bill Reel.

RFM and Bill Reel tackle the two Hills Cumorah theory. The explain how Cumorah fits within our scriptures, show us how it was understood and taught all through early Church history and when in the modern times it changed and how that course adjustment has the Church approaching it today. To the believers who always wished for these things to be simple and faithful, eat your heartlander out ! IMAGES FOR SHOW   https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/media/collection/bmvl-moroni-10-images?lang=eng OPENING: Heartlanders digging for Evidence (Don’t want to spend valuable time here. Just show and explain it led me to create this episode) A.) What the Scriptures Tell us about Cumorah   Mormon 6:4 – we did pitch our tents round about the hill Cumorah; and it was in a land of many waters, rivers, and fountains – SHOW MAP OF PALMYRA SURROUNDING AREA (It must be conceded that this description fits perfectly the land of Cumorah in New York, as it has been known since the visitation of Moroni to the Prophet Joseph Smith, for the hill is in the proximity of the Great Lakes and also in the land of many rivers and fountains.)   Mormon 6:6 –  Mormon hid the records in the Hill Cumorah with the exception of the plates that would make up the Book of Mormon PHOTO   Ether 15:11 – The Jaredites hill Ramah and the Nephites Hill Cumorah are the same hill (He saw that there had been slain by the sword already nearly atwo millions of his people, and he began to sorrow in his heart; yea, there had been slain two millions of mighty men, and also their wives and their children.) PHOTO LOGISTICS OF A BATTLE THIS BIG   D&C 128:20 And again, what do we hear? Glad tidings from Cumorah! Moroni, an angel from heaven, declaring the fulfilment of the prophets—the book to be revealed PHOTO   B.) What early Church Leaders and Official sources said about The Hill Cumorah in New York   History of the Church 1:184 “This Book, which contained these things, was hid in the earth by Moroni, in a hill called by him Cumorah, which hill is now in the state of New York, near the village of Palmyra, in Ontario county.   PHOTO 1835 Messenger and Advocate – Page 4 Oliver Cowdery under Joseph Smith declares Cumorah is the hill in New York (Joseph Smith had the letter reprinted )   PHOTO The Prophet Joseph Smith himself is on record declaring the present hill called Cumorah to be the exact hill spoken of in the Book of Mormon. History of the Church  History of the Church, 1948 ed., vol. 2, pp. 79–80  PHOTO   David Whitmer, Oliver Cowdery, and Joseph Smith are visited by Moroni – Moroni says Cumorah as the word is new to David  (Tangential point.  David Whitmer says his plowed was field and he didn’t know who did it.  Lucy Mack Smith though claims David knew it was the three nephites page 4 bottom left) page 4 right hand side  PHOTO   Mark E. Petersen, “A Work of Conversion,” General Conference address, in Messages of Inspiration (SLC: Deseret Book Co., 1957), pp. 98-106. I do not believe that we should give credence to the highly speculative theories about Book of Mormon geography. I do not believe that there were two Hill Cumorahs, one in Central America and the other one up in New York, for the convenience of the Prophet Joseph Smith, so that the poor boy would not have to walk clear to Central America to get the gold plates. (Last part of Page 3) PHOTO   Doctrines of Salvation by: Joseph Fielding Smith http://www.mormonthink.com/backup/Cumorah-JFeS-DofS3.pdf  PHOTO   https://scholarsarchive.byu.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1360&context=jbms All of the quotes regarding Cumorah’s Cave.  I want to synopsize because there is too much here and deeply overlapping PHOTO   Anthony W Ivins (Counselor First Presidency) General Conference talk in April 1928 https://www.dropbox.com/s/0zan98tml1mr4kq/conferencereport1928a%20%20page%2015.pdf?dl=0  (Page 12 of the PDF)    PHOTO   The Messenger, July 1960, No. 51   (COVER) (Page w/ pertinent section) Bishops “Attention Called To ‘Book of Mormon’ Maps” Our attention has been brought in the past few weeks to certain “Book of Mormon Lands” maps which are being offered to Church leaders and auxiliary workers by a California organization. They are apparently being distributed free of charge. We wish to refer bishops to the printed matter at the bottom of the map, which contains an inference that there are two, rather than one, Hills Cumorah — one in Mexico as well as the one in New York. The Church has never accepted this contention. Bishops are requested to make cognizant of this discrepancy those in their wards who might be sending for these maps or using them for instructional purposes. This concept of two Cumorahs should not be taught as official Church doctrine.(WOULD LOVE A IMAGE OR DOCUMENT)   Official Letterhead 1990 Letter   F. Michael Watson – Context of that letter (Frank Michael Watson was a secretary to the First Presidency of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints from 1986 to 2008. He was assistant secretary from 1972 until April 1986. Prior to that call, he served as assistant secretary and then secretary to the Quorum of the Twelve Apostles (1970–1972). He was called to serve in the First Quorum of the Seventy in April 2008 and served until October 2013 when he was designated an emeritus general authority.) Fair Claims “The First Presidency’s secretary apparently answered a question according to his own understanding”   C. Something Changed   What changed in Mormonism Environment – The events including number of deaths and the supplies present in the Book of Mormon simply doesn’t match what has been located on that hill – Views seem to change in the 1940’s and 1950’s 1992 Encyclopedia of Mormonism Last paragraph and subsequent finish on next page F. Michael Watson’s Second Letter 1993 “He (F. Michael Watson)  responded that the First Presidency would like to clear up that Issue and he would FAX me with that clarification.” LINK to this message Similar message from official channels    John Clark 2004 – “the Hill Cumorah. Archaeologically speaking, it is a clean hill. No artifacts, no walls, no trenches, no arrowheads. The area immediately surrounding the hill is similarly clean. Pre-Columbian people did not settle or build here. This is not the place of Mormon’s last stand. We must look elsewhere for that hill.”   D.) The Church in the present modern moment   New Approach Hill Cumorah as defined by the Church ““In the 1820s, the hill did not have a name. It later became known as the Hill Cumorah because Moroni, the Book of Mormon’s final author and the angel who met with Joseph Smith, wrote that he had hidden the golden plates in a hill called Cumorah (see Mormon 6:6)”   Still old remnants of the old approach Hill Cumorah Photo   Cumorah, Hill Poem to be read at the end  PHOTO to show while I read RESOURCES: https://www.google.com/maps/place/Rochester,+NY/@43.3706202,-78.7467864,7.74z/data=!4m5!3m4!1s0x89d6b3059614b353:0x5a001ffc4125e61e!8m2!3d43.1565779!4d-77.6088465  (MAP OF NY AREA –  https://sites.google.com/site/bomgeography/discoveries/fountains-that-spray-no-water  (What Fountain mean) http://www.mormonthink.com/backup/Cumorah-JFeS-DofS3.pdf  https://newsroom.churchofjesuschrist.org/article/elder-curtis-hill-cumorah-preservation  “These sacred events are central parts of what the Church calls the Restoration, an ongoing process of God revealing key truths to men and women on earth.”  #3 – Upgrade the messaging of the hill’s historical and sacred significance https://scholarsarchive.byu.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?referer=https://www.google.com/&httpsredir=1&article=1367&context=jbms  Https://knowhy.bookofmormoncentral.org/knowhy/where-is-the-location-of-the-hill-cumorah https://doctrineandcovenantscentral.org/knowhy/where-is-the-location-of-the-hill-cumorah/ http://ldsarchaeology.com/cumorah/where-is-the-hill-cumorah/ https://debunking-cesletter.com/book-of-mormon-1/hill-cumorah-location/ https://www.fairlatterdaysaints.org/answers/Book_of_Mormon/Geography/New_World/Hill_Cumorah http://www.utlm.org/onlineresources/cumorah.htm https://podcastaddict.com/episode/37201863 https://www.mormonstories.org/truth-claims/the-books/the-book-of-mormon/hill-cumorah/ https://knowhy.bookofmormoncentral.org/knowhy/where-is-the-location-of-the-hill-cumorah https://www.google.com/maps/place/Hill+Cumorah+Visitors’+Center/@43.0275235,-77.7122062,11z/data=!4m5!3m4!1s0x0:0x416565d22288af00!8m2!3d43.0069794!4d-77.2259677  (Many Waters, Rivers and Fountains) https://daytrippingroc.com/natural-swimming-areas-around-rochester/  (39 natural swimming holes) https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/learn/historic-sites/new-york/hill-cumorah?lang=eng (carefully worded) https://sites.google.com/site/bomgeography/internal-map/new-world-commentary/h/hill-ramah  https://www.dropbox.com/s/hqork9sw7bnpe7b/Resurrecting_Cumorah_The_Semi_Limited_Me.pdf?dl=0 https://www.mormonstories.org/truth-claims/the-books/the-book-of-mormon/hill-cumorah/ http://www.moronisamerica.com/nevilles-summary-post/ https://scholarsarchive.byu.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1357&context=jbms http://www.salamandersociety.com/library/the_golden_bible-m_t_lamb.pdf  The post Mormonism LIVE: 057: The Two Hills Cumorah Theory appeared first on Mormon Discussion by Bill Reel.

Bill Reel sits down with Jared Anderson to discuss the inner work of Transformation. Along the way they hit on ideas of Consciousness, Tools that alter consciousness, human development, spiral dynamics, Men’s work, and leaving unhealthy systems. They cover a lot of ground and the conversation is insightful. If you wish to contact Jared you can email him at [email protected] or visit his website linked below.  You can watch the video version of this episode here https://youtu.be/a4LcQx88wj0 RESOURCES: https://www.jaredandersoncoaching.com/ https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dYSQ1NF1hvw https://spiraldynamicsintegral.nl/en/about-sdi/integral-theory/ The post Mormon Discussion: 359: Jared Anderson – Consciousness, Transformation, and Men’s Work appeared first on Mormon Discussion by Bill Reel.

RFM and Bill sit down with a former BYU Professor to discuss the experience of losing your faith while working for the Lord’s University. RESOURCES: https://www.louisakillian.com/ www.youtube.com/watch?v=qpUN29orJmM www.youtube.com/watch?v=tg36L1989Ss&t mylifebygogogoff.com/2020/08/how-a-new-instagram-page-is-exposing-apostate-byu-professors.html The post Mormonism LIVE: 056: Apostate BYU Professors appeared first on Mormon Discussion by Bill Reel.

Bill Reel and RFM take a look at the Historical Jesus and hit on the main points that Biblical criticism brings into focus and once they are done, your Christmases may never be the same. Jesus son of Mary – Illegitimate birth. Mark infers. The early church theologian Origen (d. 251 CE) has a polemical tract in which he writes an apologetic for Jesus’ virgin birth against Celsus, a pagan skeptic of Christianity (around 178 CE). Celsus was a proponent of the idea that the virgin birth story was a fiction invented by Jesus, when the truth was (as he apparently believed) Jesus was the biological product of his mother and a Roman soldier named Pantera. Also Virgin births were a common trope and polemic device in ancient mythology. Manger – ACU scholar Stephen Carlson writes that the word “kataluma” (often translated “inn”) refers to guest quarters. Most likely, Joseph and Mary stayed with family but the guest room was too small for childbirth and hence Mary gave birth in the main room of the house where animal mangers could also be found. use the links below from Dan McllellanManger/Inn – Scripture Translation Supervisor for the LDS Church, PhD in theology and religion https://www.tiktok.com/@maklelan/video/7037619189456358703?lang=en&is_copy_url=1&is_from_webapp=v1   More on the nativity – Daniel McClellan https://www.tiktok.com/@maklelan/video/7037685245172256046?lang=en&is_copy_url=1&is_from_webapp=v1 Traditional Account of the nativity – Daniel McClellan Scripture Translation Supervisor for the LDS Church, PhD in theology and religionhttps://www.tiktok.com/@maklelan/video/7040144974750731566?lang=en&is_copy_url=1&is_from_webapp=v1 Inconsistencies in the narrative – Matthew and Luke, the only Christian gospels which give us the virgin birth story, contain problematic details-both internally and in comparison to each other. For example, it’s been pointed out often that Luke’s dating of the census (while Quirinius was governor of Syria) in Luke is problematic. There are also difficulties when the accounts are compared to each other. The two genealogies don’t exactly reinforce each other and there are a number of striking differences when compared alongside each other–in particular the migration to Egypt in Matthew (2:13-14) which is completely absent from Luke. In Luke’s account, Mary and Joseph take Jesus home immediately to Nazareth (2:39-40), with no reference to a flight to Egypt or a conflict with Herod. Live in Bethlehem? – According to the Matthean infancy narrative, Joseph and Mary are natives to Bethlehem! They live in their house there! Houses would be part of patriarchal compounds with as many as 50 to 100 people.  There is no Lukan manger mentioned, and definitely no stables! The author “Matthew” expects his audience to understand this, being that he writes for people equipped with culturally-appropriate auxiliary background information. We Western Christians, reading with spurious familiarity, are blind to this. Did the Holy Family go from Bethlehem to Jerusalem and then straight back to Nazareth, as “Luke” tells us? Or did they reside in Bethlehem, give birth to Jesus there, live about two years there until the magi come, then flee to Egypt, then some years after go to a place they’ve never been to before and take up residence there, as “Matthew” says? (No need to read the following but in case someone asks why 2 years – Notably, the magi visit Jesus in a house (not an inn or stable) and their visit is as late as two years after the birth. Matthew 2:16 records King Herod’s orders to kill baby boys up to the age of two based on the report about Jesus’s age from the magi. This delay is why most Christian churches celebrate the visit of the magi on “Epiphany” or January 6) the slaughter of the innocents – given that Bethlehem probably had fewer than 1,000 residents, it’s possible the slaughter of the innocents involved just three or four babies, Witherington said. “We’re not talking about streets lined with dead babies,” Witherington told Live Science. In a world full of brutality and violence, it’s not clear the death of a few no-name babies in a sleepy village would have made the history books. Erroneous History about a Census – A similar situation exists with the Lukan census of the whole world when Quirinius was governor of Syria (Luke 2:1–2). This census was presumably made when Herod the Great reigned over Judea (1:5), and who was alive when Jesus was born and for some time after. Copious records exist from the time of Caesar Augustus’ reign (27 BCE—14 CE). These records describe many events during that reign, particularly the most important. None of them mention anything about a worldwide census. And consider how “Luke” describes this census: people must return to the home of their ancestors. Consider what the Empire would look like in order to accomplish that—throngs of millions migrating all over for the census. And yet all historical records remain silent on it? In his own history, Augustus himself fails to mention this achievement! That’s simply not credible.   RESOURCES: https://www.patheos.com/blogs/messyinspirations/2019/12/history-discrepancies-jesus-birth/ https://www.patheos.com/blogs/unsystematictheology/2016/03/six-problems-with-the-virgin-birth-biblical-and-historical-perspective/   https://theconversation.com/what-history-really-tells-us-about-the-birth-of-jesus-89444   http://www.paulonpaul.org/jesus/narr_2_birth.htm   https://www.livescience.com/49228-nativity-story-facts-history.html https://tabletalkmagazine.com/posts/the-controversial-birth-of-jesus/ https://www.patheos.com/blogs/messyinspirations/2019/12/different-jesus-birth-stories/   The post Mormonism LIVE: 055: Christmas & The Historical Jesus appeared first on Mormon Discussion by Bill Reel.

RFM & Bill Reel explore Missions and how an LDS Mission can contain some strange experiences and difficulty. They accomplish this by sitting down with with someone who had just that sort of Mission. The post Mormonism LIVE: 054: Mission Impossible appeared first on Mormon Discussion by Bill Reel.

Mormonism LIVE: 053: One Year Anniversary RFM and Bill Reel kick of the second year of Mormonism LIVE with a look back of the past 52 weeks since Mormonism Live’s inception. We look at the favorite episodes of both us and the viewers. We look back at any funny moments, and wonder where the next 52 episodes might take us The post Mormonism LIVE: 053: One Year Anniversary appeared first on Mormon Discussion by Bill Reel.

On November 12, 2021, Dallin H. Oaks, a member of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints’ First Presidency addressed the community in a meeting. The meeting included Question and Answer on the University of Virginia Campus. In that Q&A Elder Oaks is asked about his treatment and his own development of views on LGBT folks over the course of his life. In his answer he denies that Electroshock therapy was used during his time as BYU President. In tonight’s episode we review the evidence that says otherwise and wrestle with Elder Oaks seeming to be directly lying about such an atrocious process under his administration.   RESOURCES: https://youtu.be/5F92V-P9msQ?t=294 https://newsroom.churchofjesuschrist.org/article/interview-oaks-wickman-same-gender-attraction Anxiety in Stressful Times https://youtu.be/5F92V-P9msQ?t=294   https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UIJ6gL_xc-M&t=1490s   https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CsSlnNx7mgY   https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PXbl4iuBLN4   https://www.mormonstories.org/podcast/did-dallin-h-oaks-lie-about-byu-electroshock-therapy/   https://www.losangelesblade.com/2021/11/17/mormon-leader-denies-byu-used-electroshock-therapy-on-gay-students/   https://www.sltrib.com/religion/2021/11/16/dallin-oaks-says-shock/   https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dallin_H._Oaks   https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=biGQs20JhW0   https://www.reddit.com/r/mormon/comments/qsusr4/elder_oaks_states_electroshock_therapy_never/   https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brigham_Young_University_LGBT_history#Aversion_therapy_at_BYU   https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=biGQs20JhW0   https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B1u3K43P-3JoY2Q5NDY3ZjYtNWUyMi00YWJiLWFhM2EtYTE4MjViNWVjOGEz/view?sort=name&layout=list&num=50&pli=1&resourcekey=0-hCSFHXaW9-fct0G1CTYPDw   https://affirmation.org/in-gods-name-the-treatment-of-homosexuals-by-the-christian-church/   https://abcnews.go.com/amp/Health/mormon-gay-cures-reparative-therapies-shock-today/story?id=13240700   https://m.imdb.com/title/tt0402338/   https://abcnews.go.com/Health/mormon-gay-cures-reparative-therapies-shock-today/story?id=13240700   https://www.exmormon.org/phorum/read.php?2,1337886http://www.mormonthink.com/glossary/electroshock-therapy-at-byu.htm   https://catalog.lib.byu.edu/uhtbin/pcnum/387154 (Smoking Gun)   https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dallin_H._Oaks#BYU_president   https://newsroom.churchofjesuschrist.org/article/interview-oaks-wickman-same-gender-attraction  ( Oaks and Wickman –  suggest shunning your gay kids)   https://affirmation.org/wp-content/uploads/2018/05/oaks_paper_02.pdf (Oak’s initial paper telling the church how to handle the LGBT issue) – it has been their blueprint since the beginning   “The church denounces any therapy, including conversion and reparative therapies,” the Mormon Church wrote. “That subjects an individual to abusive practices, not only in Utah, but throughout the world.” – Official statement from the Church “‘BYU will respond to homosexual behavior rather than to feelings or attraction, and welcomes as full members of the university community all whose behavior meets university standards,” said Jenkins. “Members of the university community can remain in good standing if they conduct their lives in a manner consistent with Gospel principles.'” Official Statement from BYU   “Dallin H. Oaks  had Gerald J. Dye over the HCO. Dye stated that part of the “set process” for homosexual BYU students referred to his office was to require that they undergo some form of therapy to remain at BYU, this included “electroshock and vomiting aversion therapies.”   https://web.archive.org/web/20131021171348/http://www.affirmation.org/therapy/with_all_thy_getting.shtml (During Oaks Time) http://www.connellodonovan.com/images/harker.jpg (Later BYU President can’t confirm\   https://www.fairlatterdaysaints.org/answers/Mormonism_and_gender_issues/Same-sex_attraction/Aversion_therapy_performed_at_BYU#Question:_Did_the_Church_of_Jesus_Christ_of_Latter-day_Saints_.28Mormons.29_ever_conduct_aversion_therapy.3F Fairmormon Denies   https://www.lds-mormon.com/legacies.shtml/   The Values Institute http://www.connellodonovan.com/images/BYU_9_15_77.jpg https://www.reddit.com/r/exmormon/comments/1l08kq/mormons_use_electroshock_therapy_to_cure/ In March of 1979, Marion G. Romney asked Thomas S. Monson to get a concrete budget for the Values Institute. (Which they did, and I might add that all of the money to fund the Values Institute and its projects were received directly from tithing funds paid by LDS members).” http://exposingmormonism.blogspot.com/2008/02/thomas-s-monson-new-president.html https://affirmation.org/in-gods-name-the-treatment-of-homosexuals-by-the-christian-church/   http://signaturebookslibrary.org/the-abominable-and-detestable-crime-against-nature/   https://lattergaystories.org/download/4223/   https://www.reddit.com/r/mormon/comments/qsusr4/elder_oaks_states_electroshock_therapy_never/   The post Mormonism LIVE: 052: Elder Oaks’ Electroshock Hoax appeared first on Mormon Discussion by Bill Reel.

Wednesday Nov. 24th, RFM and Bill sat down with Denver Snuffer and discuss his life and the happenings around the Christian fellowships of “the Remnants” movement. Denver Snuffer is an author of Restorationist devotional books, a lecturer, a speculative theologian, and a revelator to fellowships of the remnants movement, a spiritual movement in schism with The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints (LDS Church). The movement has a few thousand adherents, many of them members or former members of the LDS Church. He was excommunicated by the LDS Church in 2013 for refusing to cease publication of his 2011 book, Passing the Heavenly Gift which challenges many points of LDS orthodoxy. He subsequently has been identified as a prophet by many, and several of his teachings have been canonized as scripture. RESOURCES: https://denversnuffer.com/ https://medium.com/the-seer-stone/mormonism-has-a-new-religion-and-it-has-a-prophet-named-denver-snuffer-282f5e24df1e https://kutv.com/news/local/lds-church-holds-special-meeting-to-denounce-false-prophet http://ldspioneerarchitecture.blogspot.com/2016/02/architecture-highlights-prayer-circle.html The post Mormonism LIVE: 051: Denver Snuffer appeared first on Mormon Discussion by Bill Reel.

Preparing on a short week with our focus on Thrive & the Midnight Mormon’s Debate with RFM has us selecting an interesting topic that is light and fun. So Wednesday November 17th RFM and Bill Reel dive into the old folklore surrounding Bigfoot being none other than Cain. The origination story, and how Prophets, Seer’s, and Revelators have turned a strange story into some sort of pseudo doctrine, How FairMormon really screwed the pooch, and how Mormonism’s and Sasquatch’s narratives intertwine in other strange places you may not have seen coming. RESOURCES: Is Cain Bigfoot? The Truth Behind 5 Mormon Folklore Stories – https://www.ldsliving.com/is-cain-bigfoot-the-truth-behind-5-mormon-folklore-stories/s/64534 Awareness of racism eased Mormon folk tales regarding Cain, Bigfoot https://www.standard.net/lifestyle/2015/oct/18/awareness-of-racism-eased-mormon-folk-tales-regarding-cain-big/ Bigfoot In Mormon lore … is Bigfoot Cain? https://utahstories.com/2019/07/bigfoot-in-mormon-lore-is-bigfoot-cain/ Journal of Mormon History Vol. 33, No. 3, 2007 (pg 74) https://digitalcommons.usu.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1051&context=mormonhistory Question: Does Cain still roam the earth, and does this account for stories about “Bigfoot”? – FAIR https://www.fairlatterdaysaints.org/answers/Question:_Does_Cain_still_roam_the_earth,_and_does_this_account_for_stories_about_%22Bigfoot%22%3F Mormon theory of Bigfoot traces monster to Garden of Eden https://www.syracuse.com/strangecny/2008/02/morman_theory_of_bigfoot_trace.html The Mormon Bigfoot Genesis Theory – 10 Zen Monkeys http://www.10zenmonkeys.com/2008/02/05/the-mormon-bigfoot-genesis-theory/ When Cain Appeared to Joseph Fielding Smith’s Brother & Talked with an Apostle https://www.ldsliving.com/when-cain-appeared-to-joseph-fielding-smiths-brother-talked-with-an-apostle/s/83424 The Mark of the Curse: Lingering Racism in Mormon Doctrine? https://www.jstor.org/stable/pdf/45228364.pdf Poems 476–507 – Eliza R. Snow Lexicon https://erslexicon.wordpress.com/poems-476-507/ https://mormondiscussionpodcast.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/2/2021/11/Cain-Bigfoot-Mathew-Bowman.pdf https://archive.org/details/lifeofdavidwpatt00wilsrich/page/44/mode/2up https://www.jstor.org/stable/pdf/45228364.pdf http://www.boap.org/LDS/Early-Saints/DPatten.html (nothing about Cain) https://catalog.churchofjesuschrist.org/assets/c7b775e0-ef6c-4ebe-b205-f159d8f4cdd7/0/1 https://www.dropbox.com/s/d5811ffxhgbph5v/MS_603-David_W_Patten_journal-ORIGINAL.pdf?dl=0 (Nothing about Cain) https://www.gutenberg.org/cache/epub/51730/p The post Mormonism LIVE: 050: Bigfoot, Cain, & Prophetic Mormon Mythmaking appeared first on Mormon Discussion by Bill Reel.

We sit down with author and Illustrator of the book “The Glass Looker”, Mark Elwood and discuss how he incorporated Joseph Smith’s Treasure Digging into a beautiful animated book. We discuss how he decided what to include and what impact he hopes this book has RESOURCES: How the Project Came Together – https://theglasslooker.com/behind-the-scenes/ Order the Book – https://theglasslooker.com/product/volume1/ Mormon Discussion “168: Seer Stones, Folk Magic, and Alvin’s Hand” – https://mormondiscussionpodcast.org/2015/09/seer-stones-folk-magic-and-alvins-hand/ Mormonism LIVE !: 016: Peek Stones, Sheep’s Bones, and Gold Thrones all on Miner’s Hill – https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U4qiP2hZtcA The post Mormonism LIVE: 048: Mark Elwood & The Glass Looker appeared first on Mormon Discussion by Bill Reel.

Radio Free Mormon & Jonathan Streeter (Filling in for Bill Reel) deliver a special Halloween Episode fielding live phone calls where listeners can share their spooky tales. The post Mormonism LIVE: 047: Spooky Halloween Call In Show appeared first on Mormon Discussion by Bill Reel.

WARNING: We will be dealing with the sensitive topic of Self Harm. If you have self harm ideation and are triggered by discussion around such, please skip this episode in lieu of another. In Tonight’s Episode Bill Reel and RFM will take a deep historical dive into the topic of Suicide within Mormon Theology and take a look at how the LDS Church has approached this issue giving historical context. What we learn is that LDS Leaders and Mormon Doctrine have had some ups and downs dealing with approaching such in a healthy way with healthy attitudes. Like everything else in Mormonism, this issue too is messy. RESOURCES: https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/study/liahona/1988/03/suicide-some-things-we-know-and-some-we-do-not?lang=eng https://www.deseret.com/2018/7/2/20648210/lds-apostle-totally-false-that-suicide-leads-to-permanent-hell https://eom.byu.edu/index.php/Suicide https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/study/manual/gospel-topics/suicide?lang=eng https://www.heraldextra.com/news/2015/sep/20/church-teachings-on-suicide-have-changed-through-the-years/ https://kutv.com/news/local/lds-apostle-speaks-about-church-responsibility-in-mormon-lgbt-suicides-for-first-time https://www.mrm.org/suicide-and-mormonism https://www.pewforum.org/2013/11/21/religious-groups-views-on-end-of-life-issues/ https://deseretbook.com/p/suicide-some-things-we-know-do-not-m-russell-ballard-437?variant_id=112173-paperback http://mormonscholar.org/an-old-sectarian-notion-lds-teachings-on-suicide-sin-and-damnation/ https://mormonleaks.io/wiki/documents/6/6b/1958-Mormon_Doctrine-Bruce_R_McConkie.pdf (Agency & Suicides) https://lds365.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/08/Preventing-Suicide-Responding-After-Loss-LDS.pdf https://childfriendlyfaith.org/2019/06/the-homophobic-teachings-of-the-mormon-church-killed-my-son/ https://www.dropbox.com/s/24uta1hgckvtzk0/MStar_19213.pdf?dl=0 (Millenial Star) https://archive.org/details/juvenileinstructor1993/page/352/mode/2up?view=theater&q=juvenile+instructor https://www.deseret.com/opinion/2021/10/13/22672169/are-latter-day-saint-lgbtq-youths-less-suicidal-a-new-study-asks-the-question-mormon https://dsamh.utah.gov/pdf/sharp/2019/State%20of%20Utah%20Report.pdf https://discussmormonism.com/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=154136&start=10 https://suicidepreventionlifeline.org National Suicide Prevention Lifeline We can all help prevent suicide. The Lifeline provides 24/7, free and confidential support for people in distress, prevention and crisis resources for you or your loved ones, and best practices for professionals. 1-800-273-8255 Tonight’s Episode will be dealing with the sensitive topic of suicide. If this topic might be triggering or such ideation is present. Please skip this episode and return back for next week’s. While we have consulted best practices National Suicide Prevention Lifeline We can all help prevent suicide. The Lifeline provides 24/7, free and confidential support for people in distress, prevention and crisis resources for you or your loved ones, and best practices for professionals. 1-800-273-8255   https://suicidepreventionlifeline.org/talk-to-someone-now/ The post Mormonism LIVE: 046: Suicide Within Mormon History & Theology appeared first on Mormon Discussion by Bill Reel.

Radio Free Mormon takes Bill Reel and the rest of us through Shakespeare’s Macbeth in order to connect some dot in Mormonism on two issues. The First is the Apologetic response that if the critic can’t explain how something is done then it must be a miracle and second how Church Leaders always seem ambiguous on the issue of having seen Christ. RESOURCES: https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/study/general-conference/1971/04/the-spirit-beareth-record?lang=eng https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/study/general-conference/2014/04/the-witness?lang=eng https://youtu.be/g0js6xWv6bc?t=3453 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TAt4Od0teNg&t=545s https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GrMJ2YZD62M https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2xRO4nPbrxk The post Mormonism LIVE: 045: Mormonism and Macbeth appeared first on Mormon Discussion by Bill Reel.

Today we take a look at the Logical Fallacy of the Straw Man argument and juxtapose it against what it means to Steel Man someone. A Straw Man argument is when you misrepresent someone’s argument to make it easier to attack. We define a Straw Man argument, share an example, discuss how to incorporate good faith in a disagreement by instead choosing to Steel Man the disagreement, and then show how Mormonism holds up to the actual argument being made when that argument is represented fairly. RESOURCES:   https://youtu.be/zYVBA8n9-pU?t=25 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Straw_man https://mormondiscussionpodcast.org/2016/08/post-nuanced-view-church-gods-plan/ https://mormondiscussionpodcast.org/2016/10/premium-holy-ghost-conundrum/ https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/broadcasts/face-to-face/oaks-ballard?cid=HP_SU_19-11-2017_dPFD_fBCAST_xLIDyL1-B_&lang=eng https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/church/news/apostles-answer-questions-about-standards-doubts-during-ysa-face-to-face?lang=eng https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/study/general-conference/2004/10/be-not-deceived?lang=eng   https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/study/manual/doctrine-and-covenants-student-manual-2017/chapter-19-doctrine-and-covenants-50?lang=eng https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/study/manual/preach-my-gospel-a-guide-to-missionary-service/how-do-i-recognize-and-understand-the-spirit?lang=eng https://www.jw.org/en/library/books/good-news-from-god/recognize-true-worshippers/ https://www.learnreligions.com/how-to-find-a-church-700487 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ycUvC9s4VYA https://youtu.be/lwkh_aliF3E   https://youtu.be/UJMSU8Qj6Go   https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/study/general-conference/2002/10/the-marvelous-foundation-of-our-faith?lang=eng https://www.sltrib.com/religion/2019/07/12/commentary-latter-day/   https://emp.byui.edu/SATTERFIELDB/Talks/Feb%2015%2019798%20First%20Presidency%20Gods%20Love%20for%20all%20mankind.html https://mormondiscussionpodcast.org/2017/12/premium-lucy-walker-spiritual-experiences/ The post Mormonism LIVE: 044: Straw Man vs Steel Man: A Lesson In Rational Thinking appeared first on Mormon Discussion by Bill Reel.

operandi is at work today inside Modern Mormonism through the SCMC, and other people and processes that work to ensure that believing members are kept at arms length from people, voices, and information that is both accurate and contradictory to the inaccurate but faithful dominant narrative. RESOURCES: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Danite https://benjaminepark.com/ https://journal.interpreterfoundation.org/sensationalism-a-one-sided-perspective/ https://www.sltrib.com/religion/2021/09/10/jana-riess-why-did-byu/ https://web.archive.org/web/20210120130850/https:/mi.byu.edu/scholars/benjamin-park/ https://mi.byu.edu/scholars/benjamin-park/ The post Mormonism LIVE: 043: Modern Day Mormon Danites appeared first on Mormon Discussion by Bill Reel.

In 1886 LDS Prophet and Church President John Taylor documented a Revelation whereby Jesus Christ himself informed Taylor that Polygamy (The New and Everlasting Covenant) can and will NEVER be done away. Only to have the Church later disavow and distance themselves from Polygamy. On this Episode Bill Reel and RFM will help us understand the context of the 1886 Revelation/Vision, How the Church avoided dealing with Taylor’s Documented Revelation, How Apologists deal with it today, and lastly what it demonstrates about the integrity and honesty of the Church and its leaders around this event. RESOURCES: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1886_Revelation https://mormondiscussionpodcast.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/2/2020/09/John-W.-Taylor-Trial.pdf https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1886_Revelation#/media/File:1886_Revelation.jpg https://rsc.byu.edu/champion-liberty-john-taylor/john-revelator-written-revelations-john-taylor (Notice which is missing) https://www.fairlatterdaysaints.org/answers/Mormonism_and_polygamy/John_Taylor https://mormondiscussionpodcast.org/2016/03/202-replay-life-trial-john-w-taylor/ https://www.mormonwiki.com/John_W._Taylor https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_W._Taylor_(Mormon) http://www.gapages.com/taylojw1.htm https://bycommonconsent.com/2010/03/13/correlation-an-uncorrelated-history-part-4-john-w-taylor-excommunicated/ https://mormonpolygamydocuments.org/wp-content/uploads/2020/10/1886-Revelation-article.pdf https://www.scribd.com/document/23201016/1886-Priesthood-Succesion https://gospeltangents.com/2020/04/taylors-1886-revelation/ https://rsc.byu.edu/champion-liberty-john-taylor/john-revelator-written-revelations-john-taylor#_edn88 Mismanaging God – Book The post Mormonism LIVE: 042: Revelation, Excommunications, Lies & Obfuscations: The 1886 John Taylor Divination appeared first on Mormon Discussion by Bill Reel.

Mormonism LIVE!: 041: Solving the LDS Church Homosexuality Issue Elder Holland recently explained ““I and many of my Brethren have spent more time and shed more tears on this subject than we could ever adequately convey to you this morning, or any morning. We have spent hours discussing what the doctrine of the Church can and cannot provide the individuals and families struggling over this difficult issue. So, it is with scar tissue of our own that we are trying to avoid — and hope all will try to avoid — language, symbols and situations that are more divisive than unifying at the very time we want to show love for all of God’s children.” In spite of being Prophets, Seers, and Revelators; He seemingly also is acknowledging that Jesus isn’t coming into the room and they are trying to figure it out without him. So Radio Free Mormon and Bill Reel decide to be of assistance and offer solutions to the problem they are struggling to get an answer for. So on this episode, we will give these 15 men the theological and historical and doctrinal space to resolve this issue once and for all. RESOURCES: https://newsroom.churchofjesuschrist.org/article/elder-jeffrey-r-holland-2021-byu-university-conference https://abn.churchofjesuschrist.org/study/manual/gospel-topics/kingdoms-of-glory?lang=eng https://abn.churchofjesuschrist.org/study/general-conference/2019/10/17oaks?lang=eng https://abn.churchofjesuschrist.org/study/general-conference/2019/10/17oaks?lang=eng https://radiofreemormon.org/2017/03/extra-radio-free-mormon-amazing-contradicting-joseph-smith/ https://radiofreemormon.org/2017/12/radio-free-mormon-022-ghost-homophobias-past/ The post Mormonism LIVE!: 041: Solving the LDS Church Homosexuality Issue appeared first on Mormon Discussion by Bill Reel.

Since its inception in 1830 LDS Leaders have been consistent at one thing. While lip service is given to being a Church that has Prophets, Seers, and Revelators who claim to speak for God and give direction from on high, these men seem to always be behind the times, stating outdated false misconceptions and teaching false and at times harmful rhetoric. No where can this be more easily recognized than on the LGBT issue. But….. sadly It doesn’t stop there. RESOURCES: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tg36L1989Ss&ab_channel=BYUSpeeches https://www.dropbox.com/s/ay5dk9mky0p0sm7/OnTheRecord7-27.pdf?dl=0 https://www.dropbox.com/s/y9z40tx8wd9rt9m/homosexuality.pdf?dl=0 https://newsroom.churchofjesuschrist.org/article/interview-oaks-wickman-same-gender-attraction https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/study/manual/gospel-topics/same-sex-attraction?lang=eng https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Homosexual_behavior_in_animals https://newsroom.churchofjesuschrist.org/article/explaining-religious-freedom-and-lgbt-rights The post Mormonism LIVE! 040: Symphony Of LGBT Mis-Direction & Mr. Holland Dopus appeared first on Mormon Discussion by Bill Reel.

In this weeks episode of Mormonism LIVE, RFM and Bill Reel delve into some debauchery among past Mission Presidents. What they find is a common theme creating a pattern of bad behavior learning once again that unethical behavior can be made righteous within Mormonism. RESOURCES: https://byteline.blogspot.com/2007/09/sects-and-violence-part-5-continued.html https://www.dialoguejournal.com/wp-content/uploads/sbi/articles/Dialogue_V21N03_29.pdf https://www.exmormon.org/d6/drupal/France-and-Polygamous-Mormon-Missionaries https://www.reddit.com/r/exmormon/comments/8fbs7u/1980s_australia_sydney_mission_prez_was_aspiring/ https://www.mormonstories.org/podcast/dr-dave-christian-on-epistemology-and-the-polygamous-mission-president/ https://www.legacy.com/us/obituaries/deseretnews/name/orson-wright-obituary?pid=186032306 https://www.reddit.com/r/exmormon/comments/8f98mh/philander_knox_smartt_the_excommunicated_puerto/ https://voices.uchicago.edu/religionculture/2018/05/20/1522/ https://www.sltrib.com/news/2018/04/26/the-case-of-puerto-rico-when-the-mormon-church-promptly-removed-a-mission-president-who-deceived-and-victimized-young-female-missionaries/ https://universe.byu.edu/2018/04/27/mormon-church-kicks-out-man-who-supervised-young-women/ The post Mormonism LIVE: 039: When Mission Presidents Behave Badly appeared first on Mormon Discussion by Bill Reel.

In Mormonism the very elite of membership including Stake Presidents, Mission Presidents, along with Seventies and the top 15 along with all their wives receive a secret ritual that confers to them that their “Calling and Election” has been made sure. What is this ritual? What do we know about it? How has the church framed it in their theology? and why do only a select few receive it? This and more on this week’s episode. RESOURCES:   https://www.dialoguejournal.com/wp-content/uploads/sbi/articles/Dialogue_V16N01_12.pdf https://l.facebook.com/l.php?u=https%3A%2F%2Fmyldshistory.blogspot.com%2F%3Ffbclid%3DIwAR0YbteylqfjyBp3P_E8vU6c3WdGzGrCsOldzbCteN1jHdANClh8-TNfGPQ&h=AT0n2SeXpCqsisJ4BybEBV99LV5oOGWdD4p1HtYeYqON6tSYCRjkkxg7aHU-9f2gtlBVUUcy0PkhgbhWw6H5-T9wuBaTiuWCo1PeaxDh-KypeEmBY6CoYcW_Kl-seflSHqc   https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Second_anointing   https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/study/manual/doctrines-of-the-gospel/chapter-19?lang=eng Do not attempt in any way to discuss or answer questions about the second anointing.   www.mormonstories.org/podcast/tom-phillips-and-the-second-anointing/   http://www.mormonthink.com/glossary/secondendowment.htm   https://www.exmormon.org/mormon/mormon508.htm   http://archives.lib.byu.edu/repositories/14/archival_objects/255732   http://academickids.com/encyclopedia/index.php/Second_Anointing   http://www.fact-index.com/s/se/second_anointing.html https://www.lds-mormon.com/2danointing-shtml/   https://blog.mrm.org/2013/01/the-second-anointing-of-modern-day-mormonism/ https://eom.byu.edu/index.php/Calling_and_Election https://www.jstor.org/stable/44368772 The post Mormonism LIVE: 038: The Second Anointing appeared first on Mormon Discussion by Bill Reel.

Today Bill and RFM will look into events that the Church and/or its Leaders were involved in that seem to have the “appearance of Evil”. From Elder Ballard’s time selling cars to buying Valley Music Hall to becoming an Apostle of the Lord, to what appeared to be a Hostile Takeover by Quentin Cook of a Hospital in California, to what appears to be A giant favor done by Kirton and McConkie towards Thomas Monson and his family. We may touch on a few others as well….. you never know !!! All of these stories involve allegations and viewers and listeners should make up their own mind as to what the data seems to imply. We also welcome the individuals involved as well as the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints to contribute to a more informed story RESOURCES FOR BALLARD SECTION en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M._Russell_Ballard wheatandtares.org/2016/08/22/dunn-and-other-bad-business-deals/ www.churchofjesuschrist.org/study/ensign/1986/03/elder-m-russell-ballard-true-to-the-faith?lang=eng historyofmormonism.com/2008/07/08/m_russell_ballard/ familypedia.wikia.org/wiki/Melvin_Russell_Ballard_(1928) churchofjesuschrist.org/learn/m-russell-ballard?lang=eng RESOURCES FOR COOK SECTION caselaw.findlaw.com/ca-court-of-appeal/1464984.html dropbox.com/s/c8n69kc96rx32th/new-l-d-s-apostle-quentin-l2026.pdf?dl=0 en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quentin_L._Cook exmormon.org/phorum/read.php?2,1503537 exploringmormonism.com/quenton-l-cook-and-fraud/ mormoncurtain.infymus.com/topic_quentinlcook.html albionmonitor.com/community/ch-marin.html sfweekly.com/news/sutters-empire-strikes-back/ RESOURCES FOR MONSON JR SECTION groups.google.com/g/alt.religion.mormon/c/6quMKuVd8RY?hl=ja&pli=1#0910f00c9d7d7efb lawyers.findlaw.com/profile/view/1825333_1 www.reddit.com/r/exmormon/comments/8akrof/thomas_l_monson_sexual_harassment_coverup/ www.zoominfo.com/p/Thomas-Monson/52373910 The post Mormonism LIVE: 036: Hostile Takeovers, Bailouts, & Other Backroom Deals appeared first on Mormon Discussion by Bill Reel.

In this week’s episode of Mormonism Live, we will investigate the integrity of the not only the President of the Church but also the integrity of the Quorum of the 12. Once one grasps the systemic issue within LDS Leadership, One’s trust in them becomes anything other guaranteed. RESOURCES: https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/media/video/2016-01-1000-worldwide-devotional-january-2016?lang=eng 45:35 – 46:38 Time Stamp https://www.sltrib.com/religion/2019/04/10/mormon-land-lds-churchs/ 4:47 – 5:46 Time Stamp In his memoirs, An Abundant Life, Elder Hugh B. Brown explained “the Apostolic Charge” that every apostle is apparently given upon admittance to the Q12. It reads as follows: “Always be willing to subjugate his own thoughts and accept the majority opinion not only to vote for it but to act as though it were his own original opinion after it has been approved by the majority of the council of the twelve and the First Presidency.” The post Mormonism LIVE: 035: Will The Real Apostle Please Stand Up ! appeared first on Mormon Discussion by Bill Reel.

This weeks episode will feature RFM and Bill Reel unveiling a new show under the Mormonism Discussion Inc. umbrella and some reflection on last weeks episode regarding Nelson’s flight and we touch on the passing of Robert Ritner and spend the last half of the Show doing an AMA. RESOURCES: https://backyardprofessor.org/ http://fornspollfira.blogspot.com/2021/07/robert-kreich-ritner-jr-1953-2021.html https://newsroom.churchofjesuschrist.org/article/general-conference-saturday-evening-session-update The post Mormonism LIVE: 034: Ask Us Almost Anything & More appeared first on Mormon Discussion by Bill Reel.

Today We explore a story President Nelson has told for years about a flight he was on in the 1970’s. He reports the plane’s engine exploding, the wing catching fire, a death spiral by the plane, the chaos aboard, and the plane’s landing in a farmer’s field. This story had many questioning the truthfulness of his account but there was never a smoking gun to get to the truth of the matter………. until now. WHERE PRESIDENT NELSON OR OTHERS HAVE TOLD THE STORYhttps://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/study/ensign/1992/05/doors-of-death?lang=enghttps://newsroom.churchofjesuschrist.org/article/president-nelson-argentina-2019https://www.deseret.com/faith/2021/3/28/22355277/president-nelson-invites-all-to-feel-the-peace-and-hope-of-easter-by-focusing-on-the-savior https://www.youtube.com/watch?app=desktop&v=EMwKxmTLaCs&ab_channel=TheChurchofJesusChristofLatter-daySaints Russell M. Nelson, From Heart to Heart: An Autobiography (Salt Lake City: Nelson, 1979) Russell M. Nelson: Father, Surgeon, Apostle – Spencer J Condie: Author https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/study/friend/1994/06/most-important?lang=eng Russell M. Nelson, The Gateway We Call Death (Salt Lake City: Deseret Book, 1995)https://www.thechurchnews.com/archives/2004-09-18/gospel-principles-vital-to-correct-living-94995 https://www.deseret.com/2006/4/15/19948411/death-is-part-of-life-ex-surgeon-says https://www.thechurchnews.com/leaders-and-ministry/2018-09-03/president-nelson-delivers-historic-message-to-dominican-latter-day-saints-in-spanish-8931 https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/church/news/president-nelson-shares-5-lessons-life-has-taught-me-with-49000-in-safeco-field?lang=eng https://www.thechurchnews.com/leaders-and-ministry/2018-10-26/president-nelson-finds-church-thriving-in-uruguay-thanks-to-multiple-generations-of-members-missionaries-156122 https://newsroom.churchofjesuschrist.org/article/president-nelson-argentina-2019THE CLAIMS PRESIDENT NELSON HAS MADE THAT WERE RED FLAGS1.) One Engine on a small Two Engine plane Exploded.2.) Said Engine caught fire.3.) In the Explosion flammable material was spread to the plane and the plane itself was on fire.4.) The plane did a “Death Spiral” which extinguished the fire5.) The Pilot “turned on the Other Engine”6.) The plane landed in a “Farmer’s Field”THE FACTS THAT ALLOWED OTHERS TO NARROW WHAT TO LOOK FOR 1.) The Date of the flight was reported as November 12, 1976 2.) He was flying from SLC to St. George to attend the inauguration of W. Rolfe Kerr as the president of Dixie College. 3.) Anytime a plane incurs a malfunction or there is a mechanical flight issue or pilot error the Law requires such to be recorded. The Explosion would necessitate a publicly available recorded log report. The plane on fire would necessitate a publicly available recorded log report. The Death Spiral would necessitate a publicly available recorded log report. The landing in a Farmer’s Field would necessitate a publicly available recorded log report.IF THE STORY OCCURRED THE WAY PRESIDENT NELSON HAS REPORTED, THERE ABSOLUTELY WOULD BE A REPORT THAT IS PUBLICLY AVAILABLE. MOST FABRICATIONS HINGE ON SOME GRAIN OF TRUTH, SO MANY IN THE POST-MORMON COMMUNITY WENT INTO DETECTIVE MODE.THE FLIGHT REPORT FOR THIS FLIGHT WAS FINALLY LOCATED (IT WAS DIFFICULT TO FIND DUE TO THE MUNDANE ISSUES INCURRED THAT SEEMINGLY CONTRADICT NELSON’S STORY )https://www.google.com/books/edition/_/wNa3AAAAIAAJ?hl=en&gbpv=1&pg=PA1090&dq=skywest+incidents+19761.) Engine never exploded and continued to run though rough2.) There was no Engine Fire.3.) The Plane itself was never on fire4.) The Other Engine was never off4.) The plane made a “Precautionary landing at the airport in Delta Utah and not a farmer’s field5.) There are other smaller issues with number of passengers, length of flight, cutting fuel line to both engines, and the date of the flight but we grant some benefit of the doubt for distorted memory. If the Church or its defenders want to claim the conclusion that this flight one day earlier is NOT the flight President Nelson is speaking about, then the burden of proof is on them to provide the evidence. To claim there was another “SKY WEST” flight also going from SLC TO SAINT GEORGE” that had “WORSE ISSUES” “ONE DAY LATER”, then provide the “MANDATORY PUBLICLY AVAILABLE FLIGHT REPORT” of said flight. Without such, said conclusion by the defenders would require more conjecture and allowances.The Plane believed to be the One Nelson rode that day The post Mormonism LIVE: 033: President Nelson’s Flight of Death appeared first on Mormon Discussion by Bill Reel.

We sit down with Lindsay Hansen Park, host of “The Year of Polygamy” podcast and discuss the most troubling aspects of Joseph Smith’s polygamy and LDS Polygamy at large. Lucy Walker, the Partridge Sisters, Fanny Alger, Helen Mar Kimball, and others. RESOURCES:https://www.yearofpolygamy.com/ https://mormondiscussionpodcast.org/2017/12/premium-lucy-walker-spiritual-experiences/ https://mormondiscussionpodcast.org/2019/08/mormon-discussion-342-nancy-rigdon-and-the-happiness-letter/ mormondiscussionpodcast.org/2020/08/gospel-topic-essays-011-plural-marriage-in-kirtland-and-nauvoo/ http://wivesofjosephsmith.org/2021-EmilyandElizaPartridge.htm Also don’t forget to support Sunstone by purchasing the magazine or better yet register and attend the Sunstone Symposium by clicking this link https://sunstonemagazine.com/registration/ Lindsay Hansen Park is an American Mormon feminist blogger, podcaster, and the Executive Director for the Salt Lake City-based non-profit Sunstone Education Foundation. She blogs for Feminist Mormon Housewives (FMH) about women’s issues inside and outside of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. She is the main voice behind the Year of Polygamy podcast. Her work and voice have been referenced in The Wall Street Journal, The Salt Lake Tribune’s Trib Talk, Salt Lake City Weekly, The Guardian and Quartz.     The post Mormonism LIVE: 032: Lindsay Hansen Park – Troubling Aspects of Joseph Smith’s Polygamy appeared first on Mormon Discussion by Bill Reel.

Today we catch up on current events namely discussing the recent property purchases by the Church in Washington and Hawaii. We then discuss the recent language of judgement by famous LDS author and now General Authority (second counselor in the Young Men general presidency) Brad Wilcox about how those who leave can be seen to have their Countenances changed for the worse and seem to have their lives in a mess. If there is time we will also hit on the possible removal of the “Becoming Like God” Gospel Topic Essay. RESOURCES: https://www.sltrib.com/religion/2021/06/24/latest-mormon-land-church/ https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o0W71YTn_fE https://abn.churchofjesuschrist.org/study/general-conference/1975/10/the-privilege-of-holding-the-priesthood?lang=eng&fbclid=IwAR0thqKeYOxHIZK_x4RDeDvsOM4-aYvI6eeh8VCDPuQYvZyk9XRCBeDlgpE The post Mormonism LIVE: 031: Property Purchases & Changed Countenances appeared first on Mormon Discussion by Bill Reel.

RFM and Bill will sit down with a listener from England who will share with us an exciting discovery he made regarding the Liahona in Book of Mormon. This is likely the first time this discovery will be shared publicly. The post Mormonism LIVE: 030: Brass Balls – A Startling New Discovery in Mormon History? appeared first on Mormon Discussion by Bill Reel.

We sit down with Taylor Drake to talk about his new book, “Joseph in the Gap”, and how this book has led to a disciplinary council with his Stake President on June 30th.Book “Joseph in The Gap” – https://www.amazon.com/Joseph-Gap-History-Explains-Mormonisms/dp/B08YQCQB87 The post Mormonism LIVE: 029: Another One Bites the Dust appeared first on Mormon Discussion by Bill Reel.

Today we wit down with John Dehlin, host of Mormon Stories and Pioneer who blazed the trail into historical transparency regarding Mormon History and Social Dysfuntion using the internet as the vehicle. His podcast pioneered a new phase in Mormonism where Scholars talked openly and and the Church could be held accountable for its unhealthiness. The post Mormonism LIVE: 028: John Dehlin and the Origination of Mormon Stories appeared first on Mormon Discussion by Bill Reel.