No Small Endeavor with Lee C. Camp

When the world feels like it's ending, some people buy bunkers, some people move to Argentina, some people stop reading the news entirely. How should Christians behave in the face of existential dread? Paradise got renewed for a third season, and we're using it as an excuse to ask a question we've all been quietly avoiding: how do you cope when the threat is real? In this episode, Savannah and Lee dig into a Hulu thriller about who gets saved when civilization collapses, Annie Jacobsen's minute-by-minute account of nuclear war, a billionaire building escape routes out of the country he helped shape, and one man in Ohio who decided the only sane response was to stop paying attention entirely. What do we do with existential dread? For those of us with faith, what are we actually supposed to do with it? Things we mentioned in this episode: Kevin Morby Nuclear War: A Scenario by Annie Jacobsen Paradise on Hulu The Truman Show Allison Russell on No Small Endeavor Meditations for Mortals by Oliver Burkeman Follow The Subtext: Instagram | Threads | X | YouTube | TikTok Follow Lee: Instagram | Twitter | Lee's Newsletter Follow Savannah: Instagram | Substack Join our Email List: nosmallendeavor.com Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

How do we learn to live with grief when healing takes longer than we hoped? Author and advocate Marisa Renee Lee learned about grief early, watching her mother move through years of illness before losing her to cancer. Years later, after becoming a mother herself and developing long COVID, Marisa found herself facing a new kind of uncertainty. One that reshaped her body, her work, and her understanding of hope. In this conversation, she reflects on grief, chronic illness, faith, joy, and the healing that becomes possible when we stop pretending we can carry everything alone. Key ideas in this episode: Choose Realistic Hope Hope does not have to mean pretending everything will be fine; it can mean committing to the next faithful action toward a better place. Make Space to Heal Marisa challenges a productivity-driven culture by reminding us that grief, illness, and uncertainty require time, attention, and real support. Ask for Help Healing becomes possible when we name our limits honestly and let other people carry pieces of the burden with us. Let Joy Do Its Work Laughter, beauty, concerts, television, family stories, and small daily pleasures can create room for the brain and body to process pain. Honor the Body’s Grief Loss is not just emotional; grief can affect the brain, weaken the immune system, and make ordinary tasks feel impossible. ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Show Notes, Resources, and Transcript⁠ for abridged episode with Marisa Renee Lee⁠⁠ The Wonder Project: Subscriber support makes more great content like I Gotta Ask with Annie F. Downs possible. The Wonder Project subscription on Prime Video is available in the U.S. for $8.99/month or $89.99/year after a 7-day free trial. Visit ⁠⁠⁠⁠IGottaAsk.com⁠⁠⁠⁠ to learn more! ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Join NSE+⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ — our subscriber-only community — for ad-free listening, member-only bonus content, and early access to live show tickets. Your membership helps make No Small Endeavor sustainable. No Small Endeavor: An award-winning podcast that asks what it means to live a good life. Through conversations with leading thinkers across theology, philosophy, psychology, politics, and the social sciences, we explore human flourishing, meaning and purpose, faith and culture, science and religion, virtue and character, religion and spirituality, community, and the practices that help shape a good life grounded in truth, beauty, and goodness. Follow ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠@nosmallendeavor⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠  Host Lee C. Camp: Lee has worked as a professor of theology & ethics for more than 25 years, teaching and writing on topics of faith & politics, inter-religious dialog, and human flourishing at the intersection of theology, moral philosophy, and social sciences. Follow ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠@leeccamp ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

This is our unabridged interview with Hunter Prosper. What happens when caring for others costs you the ability to feel? During the COVID pandemic, Hunter spent his days caring for critically ill patients in the ICU. Over time, the emotional weight became overwhelming. He found himself pulling away not only from patients, but from friends, family, and even his own emotions. Then one day, desperate to reconnect with the world, he walked outside and struck up a conversation with a stranger. That simple interaction eventually became the viral project Stories From A Stranger, a series built around honest conversations with ordinary people about love, fear, meaning, loss, and what it means to be human. Key Ideas Silence Can Heal Hunter explains why meaningful listening often requires resisting the urge to interrupt, fix, or fill the silence. Connection Requires Vulnerability After COVID burnout left him emotionally numb, Hunter discovered that healing meant risking closeness again instead of avoiding it. Every Person Wants To Be Seen From ICU patients to strangers in the park, Hunter’s work reveals how deeply people long to feel heard and understood. Shared Emotions Unite Us While our stories differ, Hunter argues that emotions like grief, anxiety, love, and hope connect every human being. Authenticity Builds Confidence Hunter reflects on how embracing vulnerability — rather than performing strength — made him more grounded and secure in himself. Conversation Can Restore Humanity Through thousands of interviews, Hunter has learned that authentic conversation can transform loneliness into community and fear into compassion. ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Show Notes, Resources, and Transcript⁠ for abridged episode with Hunter Prosper⁠ The Wonder Project: Subscriber support makes more great content like I Gotta Ask with Annie F. Downs possible. The Wonder Project subscription on Prime Video is available in the U.S. for $8.99/month or $89.99/year after a 7-day free trial. Visit ⁠⁠IGottaAsk.com⁠⁠ to learn more! ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Join NSE+⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ — our subscriber-only community — for ad-free listening, member-only bonus content, and early access to live show tickets. Your membership helps make No Small Endeavor sustainable. No Small Endeavor: An award-winning podcast that asks what it means to live a good life. Through conversations with leading thinkers across theology, philosophy, psychology, politics, and the social sciences, we explore human flourishing, meaning and purpose, faith and culture, science and religion, virtue and character, religion and spirituality, community, and the practices that help shape a good life grounded in truth, beauty, and goodness. Follow ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠@nosmallendeavor⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠  Host Lee C. Camp: Lee has worked as a professor of theology & ethics for more than 25 years, teaching and writing on topics of faith & politics, inter-religious dialog, and human flourishing at the intersection of theology, moral philosophy, and social sciences. Follow ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠@leeccamp ⁠⁠⁠ Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

When a cage fight lands on the White House lawn, it's worth asking… what exactly are we celebrating? On June 14, 2026 (Flag Day, Trump's 80th birthday, and the eve of America's 250th anniversary) the White House South Lawn will host something it never has before: a UFC cage fight. We're going beneath the spectacle to ask what it actually means when the symbols we use to celebrate a nation reveal something uncomfortable about who that nation has become. Things we mentioned in this episode: Nuclear War: A Scenario by Annie Jacobsen Yesteryear by Caro Claire Burke Meditations for Mortals by Oliver Burkeman Kin by Tayari Jones Follow The Subtext: Instagram | Threads | X | YouTube | TikTok Follow Lee: Instagram | Twitter | Lee's Newsletter Follow Savannah: Instagram | Substack Join our Email List: nosmallendeavor.com Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

What happens when caring for others costs you the ability to feel? During the COVID pandemic, Hunter spent his days caring for critically ill patients in the ICU. Over time, the emotional weight became overwhelming. He found himself pulling away not only from patients, but from friends, family, and even his own emotions. Then one day, desperate to reconnect with the world, he walked outside and struck up a conversation with a stranger. That simple interaction eventually became the viral project Stories From A Stranger, a series built around honest conversations with ordinary people about love, fear, meaning, loss, and what it means to be human. Key Ideas Silence Can Heal Hunter explains why meaningful listening often requires resisting the urge to interrupt, fix, or fill the silence. Connection Requires Vulnerability After COVID burnout left him emotionally numb, Hunter discovered that healing meant risking closeness again instead of avoiding it. Every Person Wants To Be Seen From ICU patients to strangers in the park, Hunter’s work reveals how deeply people long to feel heard and understood. Shared Emotions Unite Us While our stories differ, Hunter argues that emotions like grief, anxiety, love, and hope connect every human being. Authenticity Builds Confidence Hunter reflects on how embracing vulnerability — rather than performing strength — made him more grounded and secure in himself. Conversation Can Restore Humanity Through thousands of interviews, Hunter has learned that authentic conversation can transform loneliness into community and fear into compassion. ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Show Notes, Resources, and Transcript⁠ for abridged episode with Hunter Prosper⁠ The Wonder Project: Subscriber support makes more great content like I Gotta Ask with Annie F. Downs possible. The Wonder Project subscription on Prime Video is available in the U.S. for $8.99/month or $89.99/year after a 7-day free trial. Visit ⁠⁠IGottaAsk.com⁠⁠ to learn more! ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Join NSE+⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ — our subscriber-only community — for ad-free listening, member-only bonus content, and early access to live show tickets. Your membership helps make No Small Endeavor sustainable. No Small Endeavor: An award-winning podcast that asks what it means to live a good life. Through conversations with leading thinkers across theology, philosophy, psychology, politics, and the social sciences, we explore human flourishing, meaning and purpose, faith and culture, science and religion, virtue and character, religion and spirituality, community, and the practices that help shape a good life grounded in truth, beauty, and goodness. Follow ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠@nosmallendeavor⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠  Host Lee C. Camp: Lee has worked as a professor of theology & ethics for more than 25 years, teaching and writing on topics of faith & politics, inter-religious dialog, and human flourishing at the intersection of theology, moral philosophy, and social sciences. Follow ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠@leeccamp ⁠⁠⁠ Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

This is our unabridged interview with Norman Wirzba. How does the pursuit of independence distort our understanding of the good life? Before Norman Wirzba became a theologian, philosopher, and public intellectual, he was a farm boy in Southern Alberta, waking before sunrise to tend to the land and animals in his care, and he says that these early experiences working with the natural world taught him one essential lesson: life does not exist on our terms. Now a professor at Duke University working at the intersection of theology, philosophy, and agrarian studies, Norman argues that modern culture has trapped us in an illusion of self-reliance, when the key to a good life may simply require a deeper understanding of our place in what he calls the meshwork world.  Key Ideas: See Beyond Self-Sufficiency Norman challenges the modern myth of the isolated individual and invites us to recognize how deeply our lives depend upon others. Let Care Shape Your Life Farming taught Norman that flourishing begins with patience, attentiveness, and responsibility toward living things. Rediscover the Sacred Ordinary Everyday realities, from baking a pie to tending animals, become windows into gratitude, beauty, and shared human creativity. Resist the Culture of Control The pursuit of frictionless living and technological mastery can erode our capacity for compassion, humility, and wonder. Practice Rest Rest is not just about stopping work, but making time to cherish one another. ⁠⁠⁠⁠Show Notes, Resources, and Transcript⁠ for abridged episode with Norman Wirzba⁠ The Wonder Project: Subscriber support makes more great content like I Gotta Ask with Annie F. Downs possible. The Wonder Project subscription on Prime Video is available in the U.S. for $8.99/month or $89.99/year after a 7-day free trial. Visit ⁠IGottaAsk.com⁠ to learn more! ⁠⁠⁠⁠Join NSE+⁠⁠⁠⁠ — our subscriber-only community — for ad-free listening, member-only bonus content, and early access to live show tickets. Your membership helps make No Small Endeavor sustainable. No Small Endeavor: An award-winning podcast that asks what it means to live a good life. Through conversations with leading thinkers across theology, philosophy, psychology, politics, and the social sciences, we explore human flourishing, meaning and purpose, faith and culture, science and religion, virtue and character, religion and spirituality, community, and the practices that help shape a good life grounded in truth, beauty, and goodness. Follow ⁠⁠⁠⁠@nosmallendeavor⁠⁠⁠⁠  Host Lee C. Camp: Lee has worked as a professor of theology & ethics for more than 25 years, teaching and writing on topics of faith & politics, inter-religious dialog, and human flourishing at the intersection of theology, moral philosophy, and social sciences. Follow ⁠⁠⁠⁠@leeccamp ⁠⁠ Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

We have a substitute teacher on today's episode! Lee is out of town, so Savannah called upon All the Buried Women co-host Beth Allison Barr to step in. The trad wife dream might look beautiful on camera, but what if you actually have to live it? What happens when a woman who sells the fantasy of "traditional" womanhood wakes up and has to actually live it? Using Yesteryear as a jumping-off point, Savannah sits down with historian and author Beth Allison Barr to dissect the trad wife movement, what it promises, what it erases, and what women actually lost before they had the legal right to say no. Things we mentioned in this episode: All the Buried Women podcast For All Mankind on Apple TV A Rome of One's Own by Emma Southon Yesteryear by Caro Claire Burke Meditations for Mortals by Oliver Burkeman The Five by Hallie Rubenhold Follow The Subtext: Instagram | Threads | X | YouTube | TikTok Follow Lee: Instagram | Twitter | Lee's Newsletter Follow Savannah: Instagram | Substack Join our Email List: nosmallendeavor.com Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

This is our unabridged interview with Norman Wirzba. How does the pursuit of independence distort our understanding of the good life? Before Norman Wirzba became a theologian, philosopher, and public intellectual, he was a farm boy in Southern Alberta, waking before sunrise to tend to the land and animals in his care, and he says that these early experiences working with the natural world taught him one essential lesson: life does not exist on our terms. Now a professor at Duke University working at the intersection of theology, philosophy, and agrarian studies, Norman argues that modern culture has trapped us in an illusion of self-reliance, when the key to a good life may simply require a deeper understanding of our place in what he calls the meshwork world.  Key Ideas: See Beyond Self-Sufficiency Norman challenges the modern myth of the isolated individual and invites us to recognize how deeply our lives depend upon others. Let Care Shape Your Life Farming taught Norman that flourishing begins with patience, attentiveness, and responsibility toward living things. Rediscover the Sacred Ordinary Everyday realities, from baking a pie to tending animals, become windows into gratitude, beauty, and shared human creativity. Resist the Culture of Control The pursuit of frictionless living and technological mastery can erode our capacity for compassion, humility, and wonder. Practice Rest Rest is not just about stopping work, but making time to cherish one another. ⁠⁠⁠Show Notes, Resources, and Transcript⁠ for abridged episode with Norman Wirzba The Wonder Project: Subscriber support makes more great content like I Gotta Ask with Annie F. Downs possible. The Wonder Project subscription on Prime Video is available in the U.S. for $8.99/month or $89.99/year after a 7-day free trial. Visit IGottaAsk.com to learn more! ⁠⁠⁠Join NSE+⁠⁠⁠ — our subscriber-only community — for ad-free listening, member-only bonus content, and early access to live show tickets. Your membership helps make No Small Endeavor sustainable. No Small Endeavor: An award-winning podcast that asks what it means to live a good life. Through conversations with leading thinkers across theology, philosophy, psychology, politics, and the social sciences, we explore human flourishing, meaning and purpose, faith and culture, science and religion, virtue and character, religion and spirituality, community, and the practices that help shape a good life grounded in truth, beauty, and goodness. Follow ⁠⁠⁠@nosmallendeavor⁠⁠⁠  Host Lee C. Camp: Lee has worked as a professor of theology & ethics for more than 25 years, teaching and writing on topics of faith & politics, inter-religious dialog, and human flourishing at the intersection of theology, moral philosophy, and social sciences. Follow ⁠⁠⁠@leeccamp ⁠ Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

This is our unabridged interview with Joe Vukov. What if AI’s greatest revelation isn’t about technology at all — but about us? Philosopher Joe Vukov joins Lee C. Camp for a conversation about artificial intelligence, human dignity, and the spiritual dangers hidden beneath our technological optimism. Drawing from philosophy, theology, neuroscience, and Catholic social thought, Vukov argues that AI exposes how modern culture has already reduced human beings to data processors, forgetting the importance of bodies, relationships, and rooted human presence. To hear more on this topic from Joe, along with other scholars and experts in the technology space, listen to our two-part series: The Human Cost of AI Part 1 - Money, Sex, and Tools ⁠https://pod.link/1513178238/episode/NjgzOWVkY2MtMmQzOC0xMWYxLTkzOTYtY2Y0MDMzMjMyMTVh?view=apps&sort=popularity⁠ Part 2 - What Is It All For? ⁠https://pod.link/1513178238/episode/MWE5OGRlOWEtMzJjNy0xMWYxLTlhNzEtYWI0YzMzZDZjOWI2?view=apps&sort=popularity⁠ ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Show Notes, Resources, and Transcript⁠ for part one of our AI series⁠⁠ ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Join NSE+⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ — our subscriber-only community — for ad-free listening, member-only bonus content, and early access to live show tickets. Your membership helps make No Small Endeavor sustainable. No Small Endeavor: An award-winning podcast that asks what it means to live a good life. Through conversations with leading thinkers across theology, philosophy, psychology, politics, and the social sciences, we explore human flourishing, meaning and purpose, faith and culture, science and religion, virtue and character, religion and spirituality, community, and the practices that help shape a good life grounded in truth, beauty, and goodness. Follow ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠@nosmallendeavor⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠  Host Lee C. Camp: Lee has worked as a professor of theology & ethics for more than 25 years, teaching and writing on topics of faith & politics, inter-religious dialog, and human flourishing at the intersection of theology, moral philosophy, and social sciences. Follow ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠@leeccamp ⁠ Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

You asked, we answered. From how Savannah and Lee became friends to whether Jesus is God (no big deal), this episode covers the questions YOU asked. We get into faith and doubt, how to stay hopeful when the world feels chaotic, what it looks like to do ministry well right now, and the books that have shaped us most spiritually.  Things we mentioned in this episode: Mere Christianity by CS Lewis New Seeds of Contemplation by Thomas Merton Markings by Dag Hammarskjöld The Practice of the Presence of God by Brother Lawrence The Politics of Jesus by John Howard Yoder In Good Company: The Church as Polis by Stanley Hauerwas Bonus: Stanley Hauerwas on No Small Endeavor Brother to a Dragonfly by Will D. Campbell Who Will Be A Witness byDrew G.I. Hart The Cross and the Lynching Tree by James Cone Acts: A Theological Commentary on the Bible by Willie James Jennings Emilie Maureen Townes books A More Christlike Word by Bradley Jersak Sinners in the Hands of a Loving God by Brian Zahnd Telling Secrets by Frederick Buechner Mighty Poplar Stephen Wilson Jr. The Human Cost of AI Part 1 - No Small Endeavor The Human Cost of AI Part 2 - No Small Endeavor The Friendship Recession - The Subtext Your Favorite Musician Isn't Real - The Subtext How the Story Ends by Savannah Locke Follow The Subtext: Instagram | Threads | X | YouTube | TikTok Follow Lee: Instagram | Twitter | Lee's Newsletter Follow Savannah: Instagram | Substack Join our Email List: nosmallendeavor.com Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Today we're sharing something a little different: a conversation Lee recently had as a guest on the With & For podcast with Dr. Pam King. Pam is a developmental psychologist, Executive Director of the Thrive Center for Human Development at Fuller Seminary, and an ordained Presbyterian minister. Like Lee, she has spent much of her career exploring how faith, spirituality, and virtue can help people live with purpose, love, and meaning. Their conversation centers on the classical cardinal virtues, what Lee calls the "hinge virtues": prudence, justice, courage, and temperance. Lee unpacks how these ancient philosophical ideas can be broken down into concrete daily habits and practices, including the story of a student whose work with the virtues led her to jump out of an airplane and rebuild her relationship with her mother. Pam and Lee also get personal, talking honestly about the work of moving through shame and why healthy vulnerability is essential to our closest relationships. We're grateful to Dr. Pam King and the With & For team for letting us share this episode with you. If it resonates, go follow ⁠With & For⁠ wherever you get your podcasts. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

This is our unabridged interview with Linley Dixon. What does it mean to live a good life in a world increasingly disconnected from the land that sustains it?  Before Linley Dixon became co-director of the Real Organic Project, she spent years in academia studying plant pathology and soil microorganisms, peering through microscopes at the unseen relationships beneath our feet. But a passion for organic farming and the well-being of workers and the planet led her into her current role as an activist in a farmer-led movement working to restore integrity to the practice of Organic Farming. Linley offers us a vision of human flourishing rooted not in speed, efficiency, or endless consumption, but in patience, stewardship, and radical generosity. She explains why healthy soil lies at the heart of authentic organic farming, why the word “radical” is actually a botanical term, and why she believes true change begins when ordinary people are willing to tell difficult truths. ⁠⁠⁠Show Notes, Resources, and Transcript⁠ for abridged episode with Linley Dixon ⁠⁠⁠Join NSE+⁠⁠⁠ — our subscriber-only community — for ad-free listening, member-only bonus content, and early access to live show tickets. Your membership helps make No Small Endeavor sustainable. No Small Endeavor: An award-winning podcast that asks what it means to live a good life. Through conversations with leading thinkers across theology, philosophy, psychology, politics, and the social sciences, we explore human flourishing, meaning and purpose, faith and culture, science and religion, virtue and character, religion and spirituality, community, and the practices that help shape a good life grounded in truth, beauty, and goodness. Follow ⁠⁠⁠@nosmallendeavor⁠⁠⁠  Host Lee C. Camp: Lee has worked as a professor of theology & ethics for more than 25 years, teaching and writing on topics of faith & politics, inter-religious dialog, and human flourishing at the intersection of theology, moral philosophy, and social sciences. Follow ⁠⁠⁠@leeccamp ⁠ Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

NSE Present CBC's Understood. What happens when a human becomes intimately enmeshed with a chatbot? From people who’ve married their bots or who grieve their loved ones with the help of AI, host Victoria Hetherington (author of The Friend Machine) dives into the stories of the people who have invited these digital avatars into their hearts, minds, and even beds. And asks what do we gain and what do we stand to lose? Our intimacy, our resilience, even our grasp on reality? Understood takes you deep inside the seismic shifts reshaping our world right now. From online porn and crypto chaos to the rise of tech oligarchs, deepfake AI, and the broken promises of the internet — we explore the stories that define our digital age with hosts and characters embedded in the heart of the action.  More episodes of Artificial Intimacy are available here: https://link.mgln.ai/UAIxNSE Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Dr. Erin Calipari thinks we're getting a lot wrong about addiction, so she and her lab are working to change that by conducting research that could save lives and destigmatize unhelpful narratives. In this episode, we dig into The Pitt's portrayal of high-functioning addiction and what it gets right that most TV gets wrong.  We sit down with Dr. Erin Calipari to unpack what addiction actually is at the molecular level, and why so much of what society believes about it is not just wrong, but harmful. From the brain's hijacked learning systems to the gender-specific realities of addiction, Dr. Calipari breaks down the gap between cutting-edge science and the policies, stigmas, and drug wars shaping real lives. Things we mentioned in this episode: Follow Erin! Euphoria on HBO Slow Horses on Apple TV Flight of Passage by Rinker Buck Down the Drain by Julia Fox The Handmaid's Tale on Hulu The Pitt on HBO Follow The Subtext: Instagram | Threads | X | YouTube | TikTok Follow Lee: Instagram | Twitter | Lee's Newsletter Follow Savannah: Instagram | Substack Join our Email List: nosmallendeavor.com Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

What does it mean to live a good life in a world increasingly disconnected from the land that sustains it?  Before Linley Dixon became co-director of the Real Organic Project, she spent years in academia studying plant pathology and soil microorganisms, peering through microscopes at the unseen relationships beneath our feet. But a passion for organic farming and the well-being of workers and the planet led her into her current role as an activist in a farmer-led movement working to restore integrity to the practice of Organic Farming. Linley offers us a vision of human flourishing rooted not in speed, efficiency, or endless consumption, but in patience, stewardship, and radical generosity. She explains why healthy soil lies at the heart of authentic organic farming, why the word “radical” is actually a botanical term, and why she believes true change begins when ordinary people are willing to tell difficult truths. ⁠⁠⁠ ⁠⁠⁠Show Notes, Resources, and Transcript⁠ for abridged episode with Linley Dixon⁠⁠⁠ ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Join NSE+⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ — our subscriber-only community — for ad-free listening, member-only bonus content, and early access to live show tickets. Your membership helps make No Small Endeavor sustainable. No Small Endeavor: An award-winning podcast that asks what it means to live a good life. Through conversations with leading thinkers across theology, philosophy, psychology, politics, and the social sciences, we explore human flourishing, meaning and purpose, faith and culture, science and religion, virtue and character, religion and spirituality, community, and the practices that help shape a good life grounded in truth, beauty, and goodness. Follow ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠@nosmallendeavor⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠  Host Lee C. Camp: Lee has worked as a professor of theology & ethics for more than 25 years, teaching and writing on topics of faith & politics, inter-religious dialog, and human flourishing at the intersection of theology, moral philosophy, and social sciences. Follow ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠@leeccamp ⁠⁠ Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

This is our unabridged interview with Tish Harrison Warren. What if burnout isn’t failure, but an invitation to become more fully human? Back in 2023, Anglican priest and author Tish Harrison Warren hit a wall. She was exhausted by her work  on faith and public discourse at the New York Times, and discouraged by the constant controversy that came hand in hand with writing about religion in a public forum. So she left. What followed was a 2 year exploration of burnout in modern culture, and her most recent book: What Grows in Weary Lands. In it, she explores the wisdom of early Christian teaching, and the many ways that embracing limits, difficulty, and the “arduous good” can lead to deeper meaning and authentic human flourishing. Key Ideas: -Embrace the Arduous Good: The most meaningful parts of life (relationships, faith, vocation,) are often difficult, and their difficulty is part of their inherent value. -Grow Roots Through Limits: Depth comes not from endless options but from accepting constraints and staying present long enough for roots to form. -Practice Faith as Craft: Like any meaningful discipline, faith is shaped through daily habits and persistence. -Walk Toward the Desert: Seasons of burnout and spiritual dryness are not failures but invitations to deeper growth and transformation. -Choose the Local Act of Love: Real flourishing happens in embodied, everyday acts of care, not abstract ideals or grand ambition. ⁠⁠Show Notes, Resources, and Transcript⁠ for abridged episode with Tish Harrison Warren ⁠⁠Join NSE+⁠⁠ — our subscriber-only community — for ad-free listening, member-only bonus content, and early access to live show tickets. Your membership helps make No Small Endeavor sustainable. No Small Endeavor: An award-winning podcast that asks what it means to live a good life. Through conversations with leading thinkers across theology, philosophy, psychology, politics, and the social sciences, we explore human flourishing, meaning and purpose, faith and culture, science and religion, virtue and character, religion and spirituality, community, and the practices that help shape a good life grounded in truth, beauty, and goodness. Follow ⁠⁠@nosmallendeavor⁠⁠  Host Lee C. Camp: Lee has worked as a professor of theology & ethics for more than 25 years, teaching and writing on topics of faith & politics, inter-religious dialog, and human flourishing at the intersection of theology, moral philosophy, and social sciences. Follow ⁠⁠@leeccamp ⁠ Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

What happens when the Bible becomes a stage prop for national identity instead of a text that interrogates it? This episode explores “America Reads the Bible,” a high-profile event where political leaders, actors, and influencers recited Scripture from the nation’s capital, and, drawing on Bonhoeffer’s warning about reading the Bible for ourselves instead of against ourselves, Savannah and Lee examine how the same text is used to fuel both nationalism and its critique, alongside debates like Tennessee’s Ten Commandments bill. Things we mentioned in this episode: Endurance by Alfred Lansing The Wright Brothers by David McCullough Flight of Passage: A Memoir by Rinker Buck The Congruent Life by C.E. Jarnagin Running Point on Netflix Slow Horses on Apple TV Eboo Patel on No Small Endeavor AJ Levine on No Small Endeavor Live Follow The Subtext: Instagram | Threads | X | YouTube | TikTok Follow Lee: Instagram | Twitter | Lee's Newsletter Follow Savannah: Instagram | Substack Join our Email List: nosmallendeavor.com Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

What if burnout isn’t failure, but an invitation to become more fully human? Back in 2023, Anglican priest and author Tish Harrison Warren hit a wall. She was exhausted by her work  on faith and public discourse at the New York Times, and discouraged by the constant controversy that came hand in hand with writing about religion in a public forum. So she left. What followed was a 2 year exploration of burnout in modern culture, and her most recent book: ⁠What Grows in Weary Lands⁠. In it, she explores the wisdom of early Christian teaching, and the many ways that embracing limits, difficulty, and the “arduous good” can lead to deeper meaning and authentic human flourishing. Key Ideas: -Embrace the Arduous Good: The most meaningful parts of life (relationships, faith, vocation,) are often difficult, and their difficulty is part of their inherent value. -Grow Roots Through Limits: Depth comes not from endless options but from accepting constraints and staying present long enough for roots to form. -Practice Faith as Craft: Like any meaningful discipline, faith is shaped through daily habits and persistence. -Walk Toward the Desert: Seasons of burnout and spiritual dryness are not failures but invitations to deeper growth and transformation. -Choose the Local Act of Love: Real flourishing happens in embodied, everyday acts of care, not abstract ideals or grand ambition. ⁠⁠⁠Show Notes, Resources, and Transcript⁠ for abridged episode with Tish Harrison Warren⁠ ⁠⁠⁠Join NSE+⁠⁠⁠ — our subscriber-only community — for ad-free listening, member-only bonus content, and early access to live show tickets. Your membership helps make No Small Endeavor sustainable. No Small Endeavor: An award-winning podcast that asks what it means to live a good life. Through conversations with leading thinkers across theology, philosophy, psychology, politics, and the social sciences, we explore human flourishing, meaning and purpose, faith and culture, science and religion, virtue and character, religion and spirituality, community, and the practices that help shape a good life grounded in truth, beauty, and goodness. Follow ⁠⁠⁠@nosmallendeavor⁠⁠⁠  Host Lee C. Camp: Lee has worked as a professor of theology & ethics for more than 25 years, teaching and writing on topics of faith & politics, inter-religious dialog, and human flourishing at the intersection of theology, moral philosophy, and social sciences. Follow ⁠⁠⁠@leeccamp ⁠⁠ Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

This is our unabridged interview with Nicholas Ma. What if the goal of disagreement isn’t to win, but to stay in relationship? After producing the smash hit documentary “Won’t You Be My Neighbor,” on the life of Fred Rogers, filmmaker Nicholas Ma had one lingering question: Where is the kindness and acceptance that Mr. Rogers embodied in today’s divided world? He found the answer in his latest documentary, Leap of Faith, which follows 12 pastors as they navigate the deep theological and cultural challenges that divide them. Nicholas discusses the process of making the film, the unlikely friendships that developed, and the quiet power of sitting with another person’s pain. Key Ideas: -Love Beyond Understanding True friendship grows when we learn to love the parts in others that we cannot understand. -Stay Present in Pain Transformation often begins not by fixing or debating, but by sitting with another’s pain and bearing witness together. -Choose Relationship Over Certainty Clinging to certainty can make our worldview fragile, while embracing the unknown creates space for growth, faith, and connection. -Endure the Process of Change Meaningful change requires time; like any deep human process, it cannot be rushed without losing its depth. -Practice Proximate Care Human flourishing begins locally—by loving our neighbors well and cultivating communities of care where we are. ⁠⁠Show Notes, Resources, and Transcript⁠ for abridged episode with Nicholas Ma⁠⁠ ⁠⁠Join NSE+⁠⁠ — our subscriber-only community — for ad-free listening, member-only bonus content, and early access to live show tickets. Your membership helps make No Small Endeavor sustainable. No Small Endeavor: An award-winning podcast that asks what it means to live a good life. Through conversations with leading thinkers across theology, philosophy, psychology, politics, and the social sciences, we explore human flourishing, meaning and purpose, faith and culture, science and religion, virtue and character, religion and spirituality, community, and the practices that help shape a good life grounded in truth, beauty, and goodness. Follow ⁠⁠@nosmallendeavor⁠⁠  Host Lee C. Camp: Lee has worked as a professor of theology & ethics for more than 25 years, teaching and writing on topics of faith & politics, inter-religious dialog, and human flourishing at the intersection of theology, moral philosophy, and social sciences. Follow ⁠⁠@leeccamp ⁠⁠ Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Noah Kahan’s The Great Divide is a brutally honest soundtrack to growing up, drifting away, and figuring out how to make peace with the place you come from. This episode dives into The Great Divide, the latest record from Noah Kahan, and unpacks its themes of home, relationships, love, and friendship. In it, they explore their own connections to their hometowns, Wendell Berry’s hot take about automobiles, and Kahan’s own eschatology (that he may or may not know about). Things we mentioned in this episode: The Great Divide album by Noah Kahan The Frozen River by Ariel Lawhon Alabama I Am Bound by Walker Burroughs Out of Your Car, Off Your Horse by Wendell Berry Against the Machine by Paul Kingsnorth Center Church by Tim Keller Follow The Subtext: Instagram | Threads | X | YouTube | TikTok Follow Lee: Instagram | Twitter | Lee's Newsletter Follow Savannah: Instagram | Substack Join our Email List: nosmallendeavor.com Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

What if the goal of disagreement isn’t to win, but to stay in relationship? After producing the smash hit documentary “Won’t You Be My Neighbor,” on the life of Fred Rogers, filmmaker Nicholas Ma had one lingering question: Where is the kindness and acceptance that Mr. Rogers embodied in today’s divided world? He found the answer in his latest documentary, Leap of Faith, which follows 12 pastors as they navigate the deep theological and cultural challenges that divide them. Nicholas discusses the process of making the film, the unlikely friendships that developed, and the quiet power of sitting with another person’s pain. Key Ideas: -Love Beyond Understanding True friendship grows when we learn to love the parts in others that we cannot understand. -Stay Present in Pain Transformation often begins not by fixing or debating, but by sitting with another’s pain and bearing witness together. -Choose Relationship Over Certainty Clinging to certainty can make our worldview fragile, while embracing the unknown creates space for growth, faith, and connection. -Endure the Process of Change Meaningful change requires time; like any deep human process, it cannot be rushed without losing its depth. -Practice Proximate Care Human flourishing begins locally—by loving our neighbors well and cultivating communities of care where we are. ⁠Show Notes, Resources, and Transcript⁠ for abridged episode with Nicholas Ma⁠ ⁠Join NSE+⁠ — our subscriber-only community — for ad-free listening, member-only bonus content, and early access to live show tickets. Your membership helps make No Small Endeavor sustainable. No Small Endeavor: An award-winning podcast that asks what it means to live a good life. Through conversations with leading thinkers across theology, philosophy, psychology, politics, and the social sciences, we explore human flourishing, meaning and purpose, faith and culture, science and religion, virtue and character, religion and spirituality, community, and the practices that help shape a good life grounded in truth, beauty, and goodness. Follow ⁠@nosmallendeavor⁠  Host Lee C. Camp: Lee has worked as a professor of theology & ethics for more than 25 years, teaching and writing on topics of faith & politics, inter-religious dialog, and human flourishing at the intersection of theology, moral philosophy, and social sciences. Follow ⁠@leeccamp ⁠ Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

This is our unabridged interview with Kristin T. Lee. What happens when we question the faith that formed us? Dr. Kristin T. Lee, physician and author of We Mend with Gold: An Immigrant Daughter’s Reckoning with American Christianity, reflects on her journey as a Chinese American navigating faith and identity in the immigrant church of her youth. In this conversation, she explores the beauty and complexity of immigrant communities, the unconscious bias that can undermine true belonging, and the courageous work of reconstructing a more authentic and life-giving spirituality. Together, we consider what it means to pursue faith and community in a fractured world. Key Ideas: Embrace Complex Identity Authentic living begins by integrating, not erasing, the contradictions that exist between one's culture, faith, and personal history. Question Inherited Faith Honest spiritual growth often means examining what we’ve been taught and discerning for ourselves how those ideas might lead to true flourishing. Redefine What’s “Normal” Cultural norms and unconscious bias often hide power and privilege, and naming them opens the door to deeper healing and justice. Practice Honest Community Flourishing relationships depend on vulnerability, where hidden pain can be shared and transformed in community. Resist the Endless Climb The pursuit of the American Dream can rob us of true meaning and purpose if we don’t also consider the people it leaves behind. Find Beauty in Brokenness Like kintsugi, a meaningful life is not about avoiding fractures, but allowing them to be mended into something more whole and honest. ⁠Show Notes, Resources, and Transcript⁠ for abridged episode with Kristin T. Lee⁠ ⁠Join NSE+⁠ — our subscriber-only community — for ad-free listening, member-only bonus content, and early access to live show tickets. Your membership helps make No Small Endeavor sustainable. No Small Endeavor: An award-winning podcast that asks what it means to live a good life. Through conversations with leading thinkers across theology, philosophy, psychology, politics, and the social sciences, we explore human flourishing, meaning and purpose, faith and culture, science and religion, virtue and character, religion and spirituality, community, and the practices that help shape a good life grounded in truth, beauty, and goodness. Follow ⁠@nosmallendeavor⁠  Host Lee C. Camp: Lee has worked as a professor of theology & ethics for more than 25 years, teaching and writing on topics of faith & politics, inter-religious dialog, and human flourishing at the intersection of theology, moral philosophy, and social sciences. Follow ⁠@leeccamp ⁠ Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Are our shrinking attention spans rewriting the rules of storytelling? This week on The Subtext, we dig into the claim that streaming platforms like Netflix are deliberately dumbing down storytelling to accommodate distracted viewers. What is being lost when stories are engineered for half-watching? Are we shaping content around distraction, or training ourselves to expect it? And in a world where story is increasingly reduced to “content,” what does it mean to tell something true, meaningful, and worth paying attention to? Things we mentioned in this episode: Trust Me on Netflix Waiting for God by Simone Weil Jefferson Fisher on Diary of a CEO Follow The Subtext: Instagram | Threads | X | YouTube | TikTok Follow Lee: Instagram | Twitter | Lee's Newsletter Follow Savannah: Instagram | Substack Join our Email List: nosmallendeavor.com Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

What happens when we question the faith that formed us? Dr. Kristin T. Lee, physician and author of We Mend with Gold: An Immigrant Daughter’s Reckoning with American Christianity, reflects on her journey as a Chinese American navigating faith and identity in the immigrant church of her youth. In this conversation, she explores the beauty and complexity of immigrant communities, the unconscious bias that can undermine true belonging, and the courageous work of reconstructing a more authentic and life-giving spirituality. Together, we consider what it means to pursue faith and community in a fractured world. Key Ideas: Embrace Complex Identity Authentic living begins by integrating, not erasing, the contradictions that exist between one's culture, faith, and personal history. Question Inherited Faith Honest spiritual growth often means examining what we’ve been taught and discerning for ourselves how those ideas might lead to true flourishing. Redefine What’s “Normal” Cultural norms and unconscious bias often hide power and privilege, and naming them opens the door to deeper healing and justice. Practice Honest Community Flourishing relationships depend on vulnerability, where hidden pain can be shared and transformed in community. Resist the Endless Climb The pursuit of the American Dream can rob us of true meaning and purpose if we don’t also consider the people it leaves behind. Find Beauty in Brokenness Like kintsugi, a meaningful life is not about avoiding fractures, but allowing them to be mended into something more whole and honest. Show Notes, Resources, and Transcript⁠ for abridged episode with Kristin T. Lee Join NSE+ — our subscriber-only community — for ad-free listening, member-only bonus content, and early access to live show tickets. Your membership helps make No Small Endeavor sustainable. No Small Endeavor: An award-winning podcast that asks what it means to live a good life. Through conversations with leading thinkers across theology, philosophy, psychology, politics, and the social sciences, we explore human flourishing, meaning and purpose, faith and culture, science and religion, virtue and character, religion and spirituality, community, and the practices that help shape a good life grounded in truth, beauty, and goodness. Follow @nosmallendeavor  Host Lee C. Camp: Lee has worked as a professor of theology & ethics for more than 25 years, teaching and writing on topics of faith & politics, inter-religious dialog, and human flourishing at the intersection of theology, moral philosophy, and social sciences. Follow @leeccamp  Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

This is our unabridged interview with Shankar Vedantam. We all like to believe that we live our lives rationally, deliberately, and consciously. But what if our conscious decision-making is just the tip of the iceberg? “ I feel like I have a full picture of what's happening inside my own mind,” says Shankar Vedantam. But it turns out “there is a large portion of our mind that's working outside of our conscious awareness.” Shankar founded Hidden Brain Media in order to teach people what science has uncovered about our brains. In this episode, he discusses why we’re not as autonomous as we think we are, and the profound implications for the ways we act, think, and live. ⁠⁠Show Notes, Resources, and Transcript⁠ for abridged episode with Shankar Vedantam⁠⁠ ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Join NSE+⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ — our subscriber-only community — for ad-free listening, member-only bonus content, and early access to live show tickets. Your membership helps make No Small Endeavor sustainable. No Small Endeavor: An award-winning podcast that asks what it means to live a good life. Through conversations with leading thinkers across theology, philosophy, psychology, politics, and the social sciences, we explore human flourishing, meaning and purpose, faith and culture, science and religion, virtue and character, religion and spirituality, community, and the practices that help shape a good life grounded in truth, beauty, and goodness. Follow ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠@nosmallendeavor⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠  Host Lee C. Camp: Lee has worked as a professor of theology & ethics for more than 25 years, teaching and writing on topics of faith & politics, inter-religious dialog, and human flourishing at the intersection of theology, moral philosophy, and social sciences. Follow ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠@leeccamp ⁠⁠ Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

From a Gen Z grunge pop artist’s critique of Bible interpretation to politics to the Artemis II mission, God had a big week in pop culture. This week on The Subtext, we unpack a wave of God-talk across pop culture, from Sofia Isella’s haunting critique of biblical “context,” to Paula White-Cain’s eyebrow-raising comparison of Trump to Jesus, to Perez Hilton’s post-near-death approach to scripture. We also zoom out (literally!) with a powerful Easter message from the Artemis II crew that reframes faith, humanity, and our place in the universe. Things we mentioned in this episode: Endurance by Alfred Lansing The Wright Brothers by David McCullough The Monkey Wrench Gang by Edward Abbey Desert Solitaire by Edward Abbey  There There by Tommy Orange Cross Vision by Gregory A. Boyd  Jesus was a Feminist by Leonard Swidler  Follow The Subtext: Instagram | Threads | X | YouTube | TikTok Follow Lee: Instagram | Twitter | Lee's Newsletter Follow Savannah: Instagram | Substack Join our Email List: nosmallendeavor.com Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

We all like to believe that we live our lives rationally, deliberately, and consciously. But what if our conscious decision-making is just the tip of the iceberg? “ I feel like I have a full picture of what's happening inside my own mind,” says Shankar Vedantam. But it turns out “there is a large portion of our mind that's working outside of our conscious awareness.” Shankar founded Hidden Brain Media in order to teach people what science has uncovered about our brains. In this episode, he discusses why we’re not as autonomous as we think we are, and the profound implications for the ways we act, think, and live. ⁠Show Notes, Resources, and Transcript⁠ for abridged episode with Shankar Vedantam⁠ ⁠⁠⁠⁠Join NSE+⁠⁠⁠⁠ — our subscriber-only community — for ad-free listening, member-only bonus content, and early access to live show tickets. Your membership helps make No Small Endeavor sustainable. No Small Endeavor: An award-winning podcast that asks what it means to live a good life. Through conversations with leading thinkers across theology, philosophy, psychology, politics, and the social sciences, we explore human flourishing, meaning and purpose, faith and culture, science and religion, virtue and character, religion and spirituality, community, and the practices that help shape a good life grounded in truth, beauty, and goodness. Follow ⁠⁠⁠⁠@nosmallendeavor⁠⁠⁠⁠  Host Lee C. Camp: Lee has worked as a professor of theology & ethics for more than 25 years, teaching and writing on topics of faith & politics, inter-religious dialog, and human flourishing at the intersection of theology, moral philosophy, and social sciences. Follow ⁠⁠⁠⁠@leeccamp ⁠⁠ Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

This is our unabridged interview with Rosalind Picard. What if the technologies we build to serve us begin to quietly shape who we become? As part of our series The Human Cost of AI, Rosalind Picard offers a profound window into both the promise and the peril of artificial intelligence. A pioneer in affective computing, her work sits at the intersection of neuroscience, ethics, and the search for meaning raising urgent questions about human dignity, embodiment, and care. We’re sharing the full, unabridged conversation between Rosalind Picard and Lee recorded live at the Baylor Symposium on Faith & Culture: Technology and the Human Person in the Age of Al. ⁠⁠⁠⁠Show Notes, Resources, and Transcript⁠ for abridged episode 2 of The Human Cost of AI⁠⁠⁠⁠ ⁠⁠⁠⁠Join NSE+⁠⁠⁠⁠ — our subscriber-only community — for ad-free listening, member-only bonus content, and early access to live show tickets. Your membership helps make No Small Endeavor sustainable. No Small Endeavor: An award-winning podcast that asks what it means to live a good life. Through conversations with leading thinkers across theology, philosophy, psychology, politics, and the social sciences, we explore human flourishing, meaning and purpose, faith and culture, science and religion, virtue and character, religion and spirituality, community, and the practices that help shape a good life grounded in truth, beauty, and goodness. Follow ⁠⁠⁠⁠@nosmallendeavor⁠⁠⁠⁠  Host Lee C. Camp: Lee has worked as a professor of theology & ethics for more than 25 years, teaching and writing on topics of faith & politics, inter-religious dialog, and human flourishing at the intersection of theology, moral philosophy, and social sciences. Follow ⁠⁠⁠⁠@leeccamp ⁠⁠ Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

What happens when a church starts thinking like a brand, and hires people to protect its image? In this episode, we explore the rise of reputation management inside religious institutions, starting with The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints and its growing ecosystem of influencers, media strategy, and image control. From the “second Mormon moment” on social media to The Secret Lives of Mormon Wives, we ask what it means when faith communities adopt the tools of PR and branding. Along the way, we look at how reputation management can shape not just perception, but truth, connecting it to broader questions of power, storytelling, and what gets protected (or buried) in the name of a larger mission, including the complicated legacy of figures like Cesar Chavez. When reputation matters most, who pays the price? Things we mentioned in this episode: New Seeds of Contemplation by Thomas Merton Follow The Subtext: Instagram | Threads | X | YouTube | TikTok Follow Lee: Instagram | Twitter | Lee's Newsletter Follow Savannah: Instagram | Substack Join our Email List: nosmallendeavor.com Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

We’re building smarter, faster tools every day, but are they helping us live better lives or just accelerating us in the wrong direction? In part two of The Human Cost of AI, Lee C. Camp shifts from diagnosing the forces behind the AI revolution to discerning how we might live well within it. Drawing on voices from neuroscience, theology, and philosophy, this episode explores three essential questions around purpose, human dignity, and agency. At stake is nothing less than authentic human flourishing in a technological age. Guests in this episode: Carissa Carter, Scott Doorley, Josh Brake, Rosalind Picard, Baratunde Thurston, Joe Vukov, and Carlos Whittaker. Key Ideas: -Clarify Your Purpose In a culture obsessed with speed and efficiency, we must ask why we are using AI and whether it serves meaningful living or misdirected progress. -Reimagine What’s Human As machines replicate language and reasoning, we are invited to rediscover human dignity through embodiment and relationship. -Practice Courageous Agency Even without control over systems, we can resist, choose differently, and cultivate habits that align technology with the common good. ⁠⁠⁠Show Notes, Resources, and Transcript⁠ for abridged episode 2 of The Human Cost of AI⁠⁠⁠ ⁠⁠⁠Join NSE+⁠⁠⁠ — our subscriber-only community — for ad-free listening, member-only bonus content, and early access to live show tickets. Your membership helps make No Small Endeavor sustainable. No Small Endeavor: An award-winning podcast that asks what it means to live a good life. Through conversations with leading thinkers across theology, philosophy, psychology, politics, and the social sciences, we explore human flourishing, meaning and purpose, faith and culture, science and religion, virtue and character, religion and spirituality, community, and the practices that help shape a good life grounded in truth, beauty, and goodness. Follow ⁠⁠⁠@nosmallendeavor⁠⁠⁠  Host Lee C. Camp: Lee has worked as a professor of theology & ethics for more than 25 years, teaching and writing on topics of faith & politics, inter-religious dialog, and human flourishing at the intersection of theology, moral philosophy, and social sciences. Follow ⁠⁠⁠@leeccamp ⁠⁠ Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

This is our unabridged interview with Josh Brake. What if the tools shaping our future are also reshaping our humanity? As part of our series The Human Cost of AI, Josh Brake stands out as a uniquely thoughtful voice, bringing together engineering, philosophy, and theology to ask deeper questions about technology and human flourishing. We wanted to bring you the full, unabridged conversation that Josh and Lee had. This is a rich and honest exploration of what it means to live wisely, faithfully, and humanly in an age of artificial intelligence. ⁠⁠⁠⁠Show Notes, Resources, and Transcript⁠ for abridged episode 1 of The Human Cost of AI⁠⁠⁠⁠ ⁠⁠⁠⁠Join NSE+⁠⁠⁠⁠ — our subscriber-only community — for ad-free listening, member-only bonus content, and early access to live show tickets. Your membership helps make No Small Endeavor sustainable. No Small Endeavor: An award-winning podcast that asks what it means to live a good life. Through conversations with leading thinkers across theology, philosophy, psychology, politics, and the social sciences, we explore human flourishing, meaning and purpose, faith and culture, science and religion, virtue and character, religion and spirituality, community, and the practices that help shape a good life grounded in truth, beauty, and goodness. Follow ⁠⁠⁠⁠@nosmallendeavor⁠⁠⁠⁠  Host Lee C. Camp: Lee has worked as a professor of theology & ethics for more than 25 years, teaching and writing on topics of faith & politics, inter-religious dialog, and human flourishing at the intersection of theology, moral philosophy, and social sciences. Follow ⁠⁠⁠⁠@leeccamp ⁠⁠ Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Lee and Savannah welcome a guest on this week’s episode to discuss why everyone hates poetry! In the hot seat is professor and poet Donovan McAbee, who recently published Holy the Body, a collection of poems exploring loss, grief, and doubt. Together, they talk about the beauty of uncertainty and how poetry can be the translator of life’s darkest experiences. If you liked the selected poems McAbee read on this episode, make sure to pick up a copy of Holy the Body! Things we mentioned in this episode: Holy the Body by Donovan McAbee Selected Poems by Seamus Heaney Endurance by Alfred Lansing The Frozen River by Ariel Lawhon Viola Davis on Good Hang with Amy Poehler Falling by James L. Dickey Praying Drunk by Andrew Hudgins Models of the Church by Avery Dulles Follow Donovan McAbee: Instagram Follow The Subtext: Instagram | Threads | X | YouTube | TikTok Follow Lee: Instagram | Twitter | Lee's Newsletter Follow Savannah: Instagram | Substack Join our Email List: nosmallendeavor.com Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

What if the greatest danger of AI isn’t that it becomes human, but that it reshapes what it means to be one? In part one of this series, we explore artificial intelligence through a sobering insight: every ship we build also creates the possibility of a shipwreck. The question is not whether AI will save us or destroy us, but how our own formation may already be the collateral damage of its rise. To trace the human cost of AI, we follow three fault lines: tools, sex, and money. We examine how these technologies shape our habits and desires, and how they are shaped by the systems of power we live within. Along the way, we hear from leading scholars and technologists, including computer scientist Josh Brake, philosopher Joe Vukov, MIT professor Rosalind Picard, journalist Garrett Graff, and data scientist Rumman Chowdhury. Together, they challenge the idea that AI is merely a neutral tool, revealing how it quietly directs our attention, relationships, and sense of purpose and inviting us to reconsider what it means to live well and remain human, in an age of powerful machines. Key Ideas: -Rethink “Just a Tool” Technologies are never neutral; their design subtly shapes our habits, attention, and even our sense of agency. -Ask Who You’re Becoming The deeper question isn’t what we use AI for, but how it forms our character and communities over time. -Resist the Illusion of Understanding AI systems can mimic human thought, but they do not understand meaning—reminding us to value uniquely human forms of knowing. -Guard Your Desire AI’s ability to simulate intimacy risks reshaping our longings, training us toward convenience over genuine relationship. -Follow the Incentives Behind every AI system are economic forces that prioritize engagement and profit, often at the expense of human flourishing. -Recover a Fuller Humanity Being human is more than intelligence—it includes embodiment, relationships, and moral responsibility that no machine can replicate. Show Notes, Resources, and Transcript⁠ for abridged episode 1 of The Human Cost of AI Join NSE+ — our subscriber-only community — for ad-free listening, member-only bonus content, and early access to live show tickets. Your membership helps make No Small Endeavor sustainable. No Small Endeavor: An award-winning podcast that asks what it means to live a good life. Through conversations with leading thinkers across theology, philosophy, psychology, politics, and the social sciences, we explore human flourishing, meaning and purpose, faith and culture, science and religion, virtue and character, religion and spirituality, community, and the practices that help shape a good life grounded in truth, beauty, and goodness. Follow @nosmallendeavor  Host Lee C. Camp: Lee has worked as a professor of theology & ethics for more than 25 years, teaching and writing on topics of faith & politics, inter-religious dialog, and human flourishing at the intersection of theology, moral philosophy, and social sciences. Follow @leeccamp  Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

This is our unabridged interview with Matt Lee. What if flourishing isn’t something you achieve, but something you share? Sociologist and human flourishing scholar Matthew T. Lee reflects on his unlikely journey from studying homicide to exploring love as a social practice. Drawing on research, philosophy, and lived experience, he challenges individualistic definitions of success and offers a richer vision rooted in community, dialogue, and mutual care. He insists that all flourishing is mutual. Key Ideas: -Flourish Together or Not at All True human flourishing is mutual, it cannot exist at the expense of others or the world around us. -From Isolation to Interdependence His “forest” metaphor reveals that our lives are deeply interconnected, sharing resources and meaning beneath the surface. -Love as a Social Practice Flourishing grows through lived practices of love, not just ideas, especially in restorative justice and everyday relationships. -Rethink Success and Happiness The Global Flourishing study has found that material wealth and personal satisfaction alone are insufficient; flourishing includes virtue, relationships, and contribution to others. -Dialogue Over Monologue Transformation begins when we move beyond certainty and enter into genuine dialogue that reshapes how we see others and ourselves. -Build Small Communities of Hope Change doesn’t start at scale; it begins with small, intentional communities practicing a better way of being human. ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Show Notes, Resources and Transcript⁠⁠ for abridged episode with Matt Lee ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Join NSE+⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ — our subscriber-only community — for ad-free listening, member-only bonus content, and early access to live show tickets. Your membership helps make No Small Endeavor sustainable. No Small Endeavor: An award-winning podcast that asks what it means to live a good life. Through conversations with leading thinkers across theology, philosophy, psychology, politics, and the social sciences, we explore human flourishing, meaning and purpose, faith and culture, science and religion, virtue and character, community, and the practices that help shape a good life grounded in truth, beauty, and goodness. Follow ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠@nosmallendeavor⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠  Host Lee C. Camp: Lee has worked as a professor of theology & ethics for more than 25 years, teaching and writing on topics of faith & politics, inter-religious dialog, and human flourishing at the intersection of theology, moral philosophy, and social sciences. Follow ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠@leeccamp ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Is being an influencer on social media a calling? Can public-facing work align with a life of service? In this episode, Savannah and Lee unpack a viral influencer video and explore what it means to have a dream, how it connects to vocation, and what it really means to make an impact in the world. Things we mentioned in this episode: NYT Cooking Black Sesame Rice Krispies Treats Dept. Q Paradise Cup of Tea by Kacey Musgraves Who is My Enemy by Lee C. Camp  The Seven Storey Mountain by Thomas Merton The Summer Day by Mary Oliver Markings by Dag Hammarskjold The Pretender by Jackson Browne Follow The Subtext: Instagram | Threads | X | YouTube | TikTok Follow Lee: Instagram | Twitter | Lee's Newsletter Follow Savannah: Instagram | Substack Join our Email List: nosmallendeavor.com Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

What if flourishing isn’t something you achieve, but something you share? Sociologist and human flourishing scholar Matthew T. Lee reflects on his unlikely journey from studying homicide to exploring love as a social practice. Drawing on research, philosophy, and lived experience, he challenges individualistic definitions of success and offers a richer vision rooted in community, dialogue, and mutual care. He insists that all flourishing is mutual. Key Ideas: -Flourish Together or Not at All True human flourishing is mutual, it cannot exist at the expense of others or the world around us. -From Isolation to Interdependence His “forest” metaphor reveals that our lives are deeply interconnected, sharing resources and meaning beneath the surface. -Love as a Social Practice Flourishing grows through lived practices of love, not just ideas, especially in restorative justice and everyday relationships. -Rethink Success and Happiness The Global Flourishing study has found that material wealth and personal satisfaction alone are insufficient; flourishing includes virtue, relationships, and contribution to others. -Dialogue Over Monologue Transformation begins when we move beyond certainty and enter into genuine dialogue that reshapes how we see others and ourselves. -Build Small Communities of Hope Change doesn’t start at scale; it begins with small, intentional communities practicing a better way of being human. ⁠ ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Show Notes, Resources and Transcript⁠⁠ for abridged episode with Matt Lee⁠ ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Join NSE+⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ — our subscriber-only community — for ad-free listening, member-only bonus content, and early access to live show tickets. Your membership helps make No Small Endeavor sustainable. No Small Endeavor: An award-winning podcast that asks what it means to live a good life. Through conversations with leading thinkers across theology, philosophy, psychology, politics, and the social sciences, we explore human flourishing, meaning and purpose, faith and culture, science and religion, virtue and character, community, and the practices that help shape a good life grounded in truth, beauty, and goodness. Follow ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠@nosmallendeavor⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠  Host Lee C. Camp: Lee has worked as a professor of theology & ethics for more than 25 years, teaching and writing on topics of faith & politics, inter-religious dialog, and human flourishing at the intersection of theology, moral philosophy, and social sciences. Follow ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠@leeccamp ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

This is our unabridged interview with Laurie Santos. Many of us spend years chasing the things we believe will make us happy, success, recognition, the next promotion, the perfect relationship, only to discover they don’t satisfy the way we expected. Why are we so often wrong about what will make our lives better? Yale psychologist Dr. Laurie Santos, creator of the most popular course in Yale’s history, Psychology and the Good Life, joins Lee C. Camp to explore the science of well-being. Drawing from decades of research in psychology and happiness science, Santos explains why our minds often “miswant” things we think will make us happy, but won’t actually do so. We cover how social comparison continually moves the goal post of our satisfaction and why practices like gratitude, social connection, and self-compassion actually do move the needle on well-being.  Key Ideas Correct Our “Miswanting” Humans consistently mispredict what will make them happy, often overvaluing achievements, money, or status while underestimating the power of relationships, gratitude, and meaningful activity. Practice the Bronze Mindset Happiness often depends on our reference point; learning to focus on what we have rather than what we narrowly missed can transform how we experience success and disappointment. Invest in Real Connection Genuine social interaction—from deep friendships to small conversations with strangers—remains one of the strongest predictors of long-term well-being. Embrace Negative Emotions as Signals Feelings like sadness, loneliness, or overwhelm are not failures of happiness but important psychological signals that guide us toward needed changes. Turn Knowledge Into Practice Knowing the science of happiness isn’t enough; lasting flourishing comes through habits—small, repeated behaviors like gratitude, rest, and time affluence. Take Baby Steps Toward Well-Being Even small practices—ten minutes of meditation, a gratitude journal entry, or a meaningful conversation—can gradually shift our lives toward greater happiness. ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Show Notes, Resources and Transcript⁠⁠ for abridged episode with Laurie Santos⁠ ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Join NSE+⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ — our subscriber-only community — for ad-free listening, member-only bonus content, and early access to live show tickets. Your membership helps make No Small Endeavor sustainable. No Small Endeavor: An award-winning podcast that asks what it means to live a good life. Through conversations with leading thinkers across theology, philosophy, psychology, politics, and the social sciences, we explore human flourishing, meaning and purpose, faith and culture, science and religion, virtue and character, community, and the practices that help shape a good life grounded in truth, beauty, and goodness. Follow ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠@nosmallendeavor⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠  Host Lee C. Camp: Lee has worked as a professor of theology & ethics for more than 25 years, teaching and writing on topics of faith & politics, inter-religious dialog, and human flourishing at the intersection of theology, moral philosophy, and social sciences. Follow ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠@leeccamp ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Back by popular demand! Class is back in session this week as Lee and Savannah walk through Dispensationalism for Dummies, Christian Nationalism, and Just War Tradition in light of our current moment. So grab your notebooks and pens because you’re going to need them! What do you think? Do we need a part 3? Things we mentioned in this episode: Theo of Golden by Allen Levi Lady Tremaine by Rachel Hochhauser Man in the High Castle The Just War Tradition by Daniel Bell Follow The Subtext: Instagram | Threads | X | YouTube | TikTok Follow Lee: Instagram | Twitter | Lee's Newsletter Follow Savannah: Instagram | Substack Join our Email List: nosmallendeavor.com Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Many of us spend years chasing the things we believe will make us happy, success, recognition, the next promotion, the perfect relationship, only to discover they don’t satisfy the way we expected. Why are we so often wrong about what will make our lives better? Yale psychologist Dr. Laurie Santos, creator of the most popular course in Yale’s history, Psychology and the Good Life, joins Lee C. Camp to explore the science of well-being. Drawing from decades of research in psychology and happiness science, Santos explains why our minds often “miswant” things we think will make us happy, but won’t actually do so. We cover how social comparison continually moves the goal post of our satisfaction and why practices like gratitude, social connection, and self-compassion actually do move the needle on well-being.  Key Ideas Correct Our “Miswanting” Humans consistently mispredict what will make them happy, often overvaluing achievements, money, or status while underestimating the power of relationships, gratitude, and meaningful activity. Practice the Bronze Mindset Happiness often depends on our reference point; learning to focus on what we have rather than what we narrowly missed can transform how we experience success and disappointment. Invest in Real Connection Genuine social interaction—from deep friendships to small conversations with strangers—remains one of the strongest predictors of long-term well-being. Embrace Negative Emotions as Signals Feelings like sadness, loneliness, or overwhelm are not failures of happiness but important psychological signals that guide us toward needed changes. Turn Knowledge Into Practice Knowing the science of happiness isn’t enough; lasting flourishing comes through habits—small, repeated behaviors like gratitude, rest, and time affluence. Take Baby Steps Toward Well-Being Even small practices—ten minutes of meditation, a gratitude journal entry, or a meaningful conversation—can gradually shift our lives toward greater happiness. ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Show Notes, Resources and Transcript⁠⁠ for abridged episode with Laurie Santos⁠ ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Join NSE+⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ — our subscriber-only community — for ad-free listening, member-only bonus content, and early access to live show tickets. Your membership helps make No Small Endeavor sustainable. No Small Endeavor: An award-winning podcast that asks what it means to live a good life. Through conversations with leading thinkers across theology, philosophy, psychology, politics, and the social sciences, we explore human flourishing, meaning and purpose, faith and culture, science and religion, virtue and character, community, and the practices that help shape a good life grounded in truth, beauty, and goodness. Follow ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠@nosmallendeavor⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠  Host Lee C. Camp: Lee has worked as a professor of theology & ethics for more than 25 years, teaching and writing on topics of faith & politics, inter-religious dialog, and human flourishing at the intersection of theology, moral philosophy, and social sciences. Follow ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠@leeccamp ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

This is our unabridged interview with Sonja Lyubomirsky. What if the secret to happiness isn’t success, status, or even positive thinking, but the simple act of letting yourself be known? Psychologist and bestselling author Sonja Lyubomirsky has spent more than three decades studying human happiness. She shares from her new book, ⁠How to Feel Loved: The Five Mindsets That Get You More of What Matters Most⁠, about what science reveals about gratitude, kindness, hedonic adaptation, and the surprising limits of life circumstances. Her newest research goes even deeper: happiness flourishes when we feel genuinely loved, and that begins not by impressing others, but by becoming known. Key Ideas: Rethink What Happiness Is: Happiness is both feeling good in your life and feeling satisfied with your life—an interplay of emotion, meaning, and progress toward what matters. Don’t Chase Circumstances: Beyond basic needs, new cars, promotions, and bigger houses bring only temporary boosts because of hedonic adaptation. Practice What You Can Control: Gratitude, acts of kindness, and intentional habits can measurably increase well-being—even influencing immune health. Lead With Curiosity: The first step to feeling loved is helping someone else feel loved—through genuine questions, deep listening, and real presence. Choose Vulnerable Connection: We feel loved not when we impress others, but when we allow ourselves to be seen in our full humanity. Adopt the Multiplicity Mindset: No single behavior defines you—or anyone else; compassion grows when we remember we are all complex, unfinished quilts of strengths and flaws. ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Show Notes, Resources and Transcript⁠⁠ for abridged episode with Sonja Lyubomirsky⁠ ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Join NSE+⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ — our subscriber-only community — for ad-free listening, member-only bonus content, and early access to live show tickets. Your membership helps make No Small Endeavor sustainable. No Small Endeavor: An award-winning podcast that asks what it means to live a good life. Through conversations with leading thinkers across theology, philosophy, psychology, politics, and the social sciences, we explore human flourishing, meaning and purpose, faith and culture, science and religion, virtue and character, community, and the practices that help shape a good life grounded in truth, beauty, and goodness. Follow ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠@nosmallendeavor⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠  Host Lee C. Camp: Lee has worked as a professor of theology & ethics for more than 25 years, teaching and writing on topics of faith & politics, inter-religious dialog, and human flourishing at the intersection of theology, moral philosophy, and social sciences. Follow ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠@leeccamp ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Let’s talk about the billion-dollar industry that turns friendship into a sales funnel, and women into its favorite target. They show up in your DMs with compliments before they show up with a pitch. They promise community, purpose, and financial freedom. But behind the glossy before-and-afters and the "girl boss" energy, multi-level marketing companies have a darker history, and a devastatingly predictable math. This week, Savannah and Lee trace the origins of MLMs from a vitamin salesman in the 1930s all the way to your Instagram inbox, unpack why women have always been the primary target, and ask the harder questions: what happens when community gets weaponized for profit, and what does it mean that 99% of recruits lose money, and keep recruiting anyway? Things we mentioned in this episode: Strangers by Belle Burden Savannah's new album Songs of Peace in Times of War Apple Music | Spotify Humoresque by Antonín Dvořák AI Series on No Small Endeavor releases on April 6th! Follow The Subtext: Instagram | Threads | X | YouTube | TikTok Follow Lee: Instagram | Twitter | Lee's Newsletter Follow Savannah: Instagram | Substack Join our Email List: nosmallendeavor.com Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

What if the secret to happiness isn’t success, status, or even positive thinking, but the simple act of letting yourself be known? Psychologist and bestselling author Sonja Lyubomirsky has spent more than three decades studying human happiness. She shares from her new book, ⁠How to Feel Loved: The Five Mindsets That Get You More of What Matters Most⁠, about what science reveals about gratitude, kindness, hedonic adaptation, and the surprising limits of life circumstances. Her newest research goes even deeper: happiness flourishes when we feel genuinely loved, and that begins not by impressing others, but by becoming known. Key Ideas: Rethink What Happiness Is: Happiness is both feeling good in your life and feeling satisfied with your life—an interplay of emotion, meaning, and progress toward what matters. Don’t Chase Circumstances: Beyond basic needs, new cars, promotions, and bigger houses bring only temporary boosts because of hedonic adaptation. Practice What You Can Control: Gratitude, acts of kindness, and intentional habits can measurably increase well-being—even influencing immune health. Lead With Curiosity: The first step to feeling loved is helping someone else feel loved—through genuine questions, deep listening, and real presence. Choose Vulnerable Connection: We feel loved not when we impress others, but when we allow ourselves to be seen in our full humanity. Adopt the Multiplicity Mindset: No single behavior defines you—or anyone else; compassion grows when we remember we are all complex, unfinished quilts of strengths and flaws. ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Show Notes, Resources and Transcript⁠⁠ for abridged episode with Sonja Lyubomirsky⁠ ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Join NSE+⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ — our subscriber-only community — for ad-free listening, member-only bonus content, and early access to live show tickets. Your membership helps make No Small Endeavor sustainable. No Small Endeavor: An award-winning podcast that asks what it means to live a good life. Through conversations with leading thinkers across theology, philosophy, psychology, politics, and the social sciences, we explore human flourishing, meaning and purpose, faith and culture, science and religion, virtue and character, community, and the practices that help shape a good life grounded in truth, beauty, and goodness. Follow ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠@nosmallendeavor⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠  Host Lee C. Camp: Lee has worked as a professor of theology & ethics for more than 25 years, teaching and writing on topics of faith & politics, inter-religious dialog, and human flourishing at the intersection of theology, moral philosophy, and social sciences. Follow ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠@leeccamp ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

This is our unabridged interview with Ronald Rolheiser. What if the final chapter of your life could become your greatest gift? In this deeply wise conversation, Father Ronald Rolheiser joins Lee C. Camp to explore the spiritual invitation of aging. Drawing from his latest book ⁠Insane for the Light: A Spirituality for Our Wisdom Years⁠, Rolheiser reflects on loneliness, diminishment, forgiveness, and what it means to give not only our lives—but our deaths—away. This episode offers profound wisdom for anyone seeking authentic human flourishing in the final seasons of life. Key Ideas: Give Your Death Away The final stage of life invites us to offer our vulnerability and diminishment as a gift, leaving behind a spirit of peace rather than resentment. Choose Your Old Fool Aging makes us all “old fools”—but we can become pathetic, angry, or holy, depending on whether we cling, resent, or receive with grace. Grieve So You Don’t Grow Bitter Unhealed wounds harden into anger over time, but grieving what cannot be undone allows the soul to mellow. Live from the “Above Mind” Jesus’ call to metanoia invites us out of defensive paranoia into open-handed trust, courage, and love. Practice Gratitude and Forgiveness In the wisdom years, the spiritual vocabulary simplifies. Two words remain: gratitude and forgiveness.⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ ⁠⁠ ⁠⁠⁠Show Notes, Resources and Transcript⁠⁠ for abridged episode with Ronald Rolheiser⁠⁠⁠ Thank you to our sponsors: Boll and Branch: Get 20% off plus free shipping by visiting ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠BollAndBranch.com/NSE⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Join NSE+⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ — our subscriber-only community — for ad-free listening, member-only bonus content, and early access to live show tickets. Your membership helps make No Small Endeavor sustainable. No Small Endeavor: An award-winning podcast that asks what it means to live a good life. Through conversations with leading thinkers across theology, philosophy, psychology, politics, and the social sciences, we explore human flourishing, meaning and purpose, faith and culture, science and religion, virtue and character, community, and the practices that help shape a good life grounded in truth, beauty, and goodness. Follow ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠@nosmallendeavor⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠  Host Lee C. Camp: Lee has worked as a professor of theology & ethics for more than 25 years, teaching and writing on topics of faith & politics, inter-religious dialog, and human flourishing at the intersection of theology, moral philosophy, and social sciences. Follow ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠@leeccamp ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

What happens when dispensational theology or Christian nationalism directly informs foreign policy without critical reflection or moral accountability?  In this episode, we get to hear from the Professor himself, Lee C. Camp, as he takes the podium to trace the historical roots of Christian nonviolence, exploring how followers of Jesus have wrestled with war and peace across the centuries. Savannah and Lee examine reports that more than 200 complaints have been filed by members of the U.S. armed forces regarding commanding officers invoking “God’s divine plan” to justify military action. These stories raise a pressing question at the intersection of faith, power, and policy: War—what is it good for? Things we mentioned in this episode: Jemar Tisby on No Small Endeavor Christian Attitudes Toward War and Peace by Roland H. Bainton Christian attitudes to war, peace, and revolution: a companion to Bainton by John Howard Yoder Who Is My Enemy? by Lee C. Camp With God on Our Side by Bob Dylan Also: pre-save Savannah's album! Some of our sources! US troops were told war on Iran was ‘all part of God’s divine plan’, watchdog alleges (The Guardian) MRFF Inundated with Complaints of Gleeful Commanders Telling Troops Iran War is “Part of God’s Divine Plan” to Usher in the Return of Jesus Christ (MRFF) Jemar Tisby on Threads Why Would Some Christians Be Excited About War With Iran? Benjamin Cremer on Substack Follow The Subtext: Instagram | Threads | X | YouTube | TikTok Follow Lee: Instagram | Twitter | Lee's Newsletter Follow Savannah: Instagram | Substack Join our Email List: nosmallendeavor.com Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

What if the final chapter of your life could become your greatest gift? In this deeply wise conversation, Father Ronald Rolheiser joins Lee C. Camp to explore the spiritual invitation of aging. Drawing from his latest book ⁠Insane for the Light: A Spirituality for Our Wisdom Years⁠, Rolheiser reflects on loneliness, diminishment, forgiveness, and what it means to give not only our lives—but our deaths—away. This episode offers profound wisdom for anyone seeking authentic human flourishing in the final seasons of life. Key Ideas: Give Your Death Away The final stage of life invites us to offer our vulnerability and diminishment as a gift, leaving behind a spirit of peace rather than resentment. Choose Your Old Fool Aging makes us all “old fools”—but we can become pathetic, angry, or holy, depending on whether we cling, resent, or receive with grace. Grieve So You Don’t Grow Bitter Unhealed wounds harden into anger over time, but grieving what cannot be undone allows the soul to mellow. Live from the “Above Mind” Jesus’ call to metanoia invites us out of defensive paranoia into open-handed trust, courage, and love. Practice Gratitude and Forgiveness In the wisdom years, the spiritual vocabulary simplifies. Two words remain: gratitude and forgiveness.⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ ⁠⁠ ⁠⁠⁠Show Notes, Resources and Transcript⁠⁠ for abridged episode with Ronald Rolheiser⁠⁠⁠ Thank you to our sponsors: Boll and Branch: Get 20% off plus free shipping by visiting ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠BollAndBranch.com/NSE⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Join NSE+⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ — our subscriber-only community — for ad-free listening, member-only bonus content, and early access to live show tickets. Your membership helps make No Small Endeavor sustainable. No Small Endeavor: An award-winning podcast that asks what it means to live a good life. Through conversations with leading thinkers across theology, philosophy, psychology, politics, and the social sciences, we explore human flourishing, meaning and purpose, faith and culture, science and religion, virtue and character, community, and the practices that help shape a good life grounded in truth, beauty, and goodness. Follow ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠@nosmallendeavor⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠  Host Lee C. Camp: Lee has worked as a professor of theology & ethics for more than 25 years, teaching and writing on topics of faith & politics, inter-religious dialog, and human flourishing at the intersection of theology, moral philosophy, and social sciences. Follow ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠@leeccamp ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

This is our unabridged interview with Kim Stanley Robinson. Do you feel the weight of climate dread—and wonder whether hope is still intellectually honest? Acclaimed science fiction writer Kim Stanley Robinson joins Lee C. Camp to name our shared fear about the future without surrendering to despair. Drawing from ⁠The Ministry for the Future⁠, Robinson offers a sober, deeply hopeful vision of change, one rooted not in heroics or denial, but in ordinary people, communal action, and the slow work of making things better. Together they explore how science, faith, and moral imagination can help us live well, even in a warming world. Key Ideas: Hope Without Illusion Robinson shows how genuine hope can coexist with fear, grounding optimism in science, collective action, and moral resolve rather than denial. Ordinary People Matter History often turns not on heroes or villains, but on everyday people, bureaucrats, scientists, neighbors, who do the right thing at critical moments. Utopia as Process A better future isn’t a flawless destination, but a continual movement toward less suffering, greater justice, and deeper solidarity. The Sacredness of the Biosphere Care for the planet is not just technical or political work, but a form of devotion rooted in humility, wonder, and reverence for life. Community Over Individualism Human flourishing depends on shared systems, food, labor, science, and governance that remind us how deeply we rely on one another. ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ ⁠⁠ ⁠Show Notes, Resources and Transcript⁠⁠ for abridged episode with Kim Stanley Robinson⁠ Thank you to our sponsors: Boll and Branch: Get 20% off plus free shipping by visiting ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠BollAndBranch.com/NSE⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Join NSE+⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ — our subscriber-only community — for ad-free listening, member-only bonus content, and early access to live show tickets. Your membership helps make No Small Endeavor sustainable. No Small Endeavor: An award-winning podcast that asks what it means to live a good life. Through conversations with leading thinkers across theology, philosophy, psychology, politics, and the social sciences, we explore human flourishing, meaning and purpose, faith and culture, science and religion, virtue and character, community, and the practices that help shape a good life grounded in truth, beauty, and goodness. Follow ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠@nosmallendeavor⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠  Host Lee C. Camp: Lee has worked as a professor of theology & ethics for more than 25 years, teaching and writing on topics of faith & politics, inter-religious dialog, and human flourishing at the intersection of theology, moral philosophy, and social sciences. Follow ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠@leeccamp ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

With their new EP Days of Ash, U2 turns up the volume on grief, protest, and hope. What exactly are they trying to say? This week on The Subtext, we dive into U2’s new Days of Ash EP. From Holocaust memory and lament in “The Tears of Things,” to Iranian resistance in “Song of the Future,” to questions about politics, rights, and God’s power in “American Obituary,” we explore how theology, politics, and art intertwine in U2’s latest offering to the world. Things we mentioned in this episode: Theo of Golden by Allen Levi Surrender by Bono Days of Ash - U2 Night by Elie Wiesel The Tears of Things by Richard Rohr With God on Our Side - Bob Dylan Stream Savannah's new single "God Have Mercy" (it's beautiful!)  Follow The Subtext: Instagram | Threads | X | YouTube | TikTok Follow Lee: Instagram | Twitter | Lee's Newsletter Follow Savannah: Instagram | Substack Join our Email List: nosmallendeavor.com Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Do you feel the weight of climate dread—and wonder whether hope is still intellectually honest? Acclaimed science fiction writer Kim Stanley Robinson joins Lee C. Camp to name our shared fear about the future without surrendering to despair. Drawing from ⁠The Ministry for the Future⁠, Robinson offers a sober, deeply hopeful vision of change, one rooted not in heroics or denial, but in ordinary people, communal action, and the slow work of making things better. Together they explore how science, faith, and moral imagination can help us live well, even in a warming world. Key Ideas: Hope Without Illusion Robinson shows how genuine hope can coexist with fear, grounding optimism in science, collective action, and moral resolve rather than denial. Ordinary People Matter History often turns not on heroes or villains, but on everyday people, bureaucrats, scientists, neighbors, who do the right thing at critical moments. Utopia as Process A better future isn’t a flawless destination, but a continual movement toward less suffering, greater justice, and deeper solidarity. The Sacredness of the Biosphere Care for the planet is not just technical or political work, but a form of devotion rooted in humility, wonder, and reverence for life. Community Over Individualism Human flourishing depends on shared systems, food, labor, science, and governance that remind us how deeply we rely on one another. ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ ⁠⁠ ⁠Show Notes, Resources and Transcript⁠⁠ for abridged episode with Kim Stanley Robinson⁠ Thank you to our sponsors: Boll and Branch: Get 20% off plus free shipping by visiting ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠BollAndBranch.com/NSE⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Join NSE+⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ — our subscriber-only community — for ad-free listening, member-only bonus content, and early access to live show tickets. Your membership helps make No Small Endeavor sustainable. No Small Endeavor: An award-winning podcast that asks what it means to live a good life. Through conversations with leading thinkers across theology, philosophy, psychology, politics, and the social sciences, we explore human flourishing, meaning and purpose, faith and culture, science and religion, virtue and character, community, and the practices that help shape a good life grounded in truth, beauty, and goodness. Follow ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠@nosmallendeavor⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠  Host Lee C. Camp: Lee has worked as a professor of theology & ethics for more than 25 years, teaching and writing on topics of faith & politics, inter-religious dialog, and human flourishing at the intersection of theology, moral philosophy, and social sciences. Follow ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠@leeccamp ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

This is our unabridged interview with Paul Rosolie. He’s been dragged through the Amazon on the back of a giant anaconda, stood in seventy-foot flames trying to save burning animals, and slept on jungle floors for decades to protect a forest most of us will never see. Conservationist and author Paul Rosolie joins Lee C. Camp to tell the extraordinary story of how a dyslexic kid from Brooklyn followed a calling into the Amazon rainforest — and gave his life to protecting it. From near-death encounters and viral moments to faith, sacrifice, and hope, this conversation explores what it truly takes to change the world and why the future of human flourishing is inseparable from the fate of the wild. Key Ideas: -Answer the Call: Paul’s life shows how vocation often begins not with credentials, but with saying yes to the next faithful step placed before you. -Love What You Protect: Conservation, Paul argues, is not driven by ideology but by intimacy — knowing rivers, animals, and people well enough to fight for them. -Stay Human in Crisis: Facing ecological collapse without despair requires resisting cynicism and choosing hope as a disciplined, courageous act. -Courage Is Costly: Following a true calling often demands sacrifice — financial, relational, and personal — but meaning grows precisely in that cost. -The World Is Connected: The Amazon is not “out there”; it regulates climate, water, and life everywhere, binding New York, Bangalore, and the jungle canopy together. ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ ⁠⁠Show Notes, Resources and Transcript⁠⁠ for abridged episode with Paul Rosolie⁠ Thank you to our sponsors: Boll and Branch: Get 20% off plus free shipping by visiting ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠BollAndBranch.com/NSE⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Join NSE+⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ — our subscriber-only community — for ad-free listening, member-only bonus content, and early access to live show tickets. Your membership helps make No Small Endeavor sustainable. No Small Endeavor: An award-winning podcast that asks what it means to live a good life. Through conversations with leading thinkers across theology, philosophy, psychology, politics, and the social sciences, we explore human flourishing, meaning and purpose, faith and culture, science and religion, virtue and character, community, and the practices that help shape a good life grounded in truth, beauty, and goodness. Follow ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠@nosmallendeavor⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠  Host Lee C. Camp: Lee has worked as a professor of theology & ethics for more than 25 years, teaching and writing on topics of faith & politics, inter-religious dialog, and human flourishing at the intersection of theology, moral philosophy, and social sciences. Follow ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠@leeccamp ⁠⁠⁠⁠ Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

What does it actually look like to take responsibility when you’ve shaped a culture that harmed people? Is saying “I’m sorry” enough? This week on The Subtext, we revisit the cultural reckoning around America’s Next Top Model and ask what meaningful accountability looks like for those who shaped, and benefited from, harmful beauty standards. Is acknowledging harm enough, or does repentance require repair? Turning to the story of Zacchaeus in Luke 19, we explore a biblical model of costly repentance that doesn’t just confess wrongdoing but restores what was taken. Things we mentioned in this episode: Ben Cohen on No Small Endeavor (don't forget to leave us a review!) Follow The Subtext: Instagram | Threads | X | YouTube | TikTok Follow Lee: Instagram | Twitter | Lee's Newsletter Follow Savannah: Instagram | Substack Join our Email List: nosmallendeavor.com Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices