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Pearls & Swine Podcast

by Kelly Dehnert

Bringing Hope and Healing to Targets of Abusive Leadership in Christian Organizations. Giving voice to our blogs!

From the show's RSS feed, refreshed May 11, 2022. Source feed.

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Episodes

  1. Kissing Up: Abusive Middle Managers

    It is an extraordinary thing what the God of the universe has done on our behalf. It is written all over the Bible and experienced by millions upon millions through the millennia. Jesus illustrated this reality in Matthew 18 when he told a parable (or story) of a middle manager (MM), his boss…

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  2. A Word of Great Value: Pearls Before Swine

    The CEO was known to use people's words to turn on them. He would simply lie and justify and blame shift when exhorted. We were concerned that he would simply kick us off the mission then and there and we would be stuck half way around the world from our home. Our children were in their last two...

  3. Jesus Was Given All Authority: So . . .

    The king sat down to his royal feast with some of his closest advisers. His power was felt by all who sat with him. Yet, the king knew that he was going to be betrayed by one of those advisers. His secret service had uncovered the plot. He knew an overthrow of his kingdom was at hand.

  4. Toxic Followership: Moses and Korah

    There have been numerous cases where leaders in the church—though not perfect in character or in leadership skill—have been rejected by followers who instead wish to be the leader. The motive behind the rebellion is not that the leader is disqualified from leadership but rather the follower...

  5. Traumatic Praise: Well-Meaning Re-Abuse

    Praising abusive leaders, no matter how much good they have also done, can further traumatize those who have suffered under their leadership. When should we keep our mouths shut when speaking well of the dead?

  6. Susie's Story: The Care and Feeding of an Autocrat

    “Susie” was employed as the Programming and Missions Director in a non-denominational church with 400 members. She served under an autocratic pastor. The lack of respect shown by the senior pastor created significant hurt. However, Susie only realized the significance of the emotional injury later.

  7. Crazy Making and Abusive Leadership: Who is Crazy Here?

    As my friends and I discussed John 11, I was struck by verses 47 and 48. These couple sentences are so appropo for those who have faced abuse in any setting. The term "Crazy-Making" is often used to describe this infurtiating experience. Jesus has just raised his friend, Lazarus from the dead . .…

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  8. Making a Difference: Research that is Boots on the Ground in Dracula's Neighborhood

    Truly toxic leadership always ends badly. This is a type of leadership distinguished by a lack of humility to see and respond to their own failings. Sure, there are "grey" leaders who might be too harsh or somewhere along the line of narcisissm, but they respond to confrontation with…

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  9. Leadership Wisdom and Humility: God Chose What is Foolish in the World to Shame the Wise

    1st Corinthians 1 says so many things to leaders as well as subordinates in Christian organizations. It speaks of calling and of wisdom and of foolishness and of power and of weakness and of arrogance—all of it which are related to leadership and those who follow.

  10. How Good Leaders are Chosen: Moses and the Exodus

    What makes a leader good is not that he simply rejects prevailing political approaches, speaks his mind, displays power, or brings wealth and fortune to an organization. However, what is fundamental to good leadership is someone who has skills, humility, and cares for the needs of others,...

  11. Tongues Are Sharp As Swords: Verbal Abuse in the Bible

    Those who suggest emotional or verbal abuse is not really abuse need to reconsider scripture.

  12. Why Leave a Toxic Organization?

    In my study of toxic leadership over the years, I have found that many experts in their various fields want to give hope to their readers. They provide many excellent ideas on how to remain under a toxic leader while pursuing a flourishing ministry. I am going to suggest in this blog that they…

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  13. Janet's Story: God's Man & Misuse of Spiritual Authority

    Janet's abusive pastor disregarded church protocol, manipulated his congregation, and exerted authority. She eventually sought healing and learned valuable lessons. She advises others to trust their instincts, uphold core values, seek support, and educate the church on abusive leadership.

  14. Facing a Terrifying Leader: Choosing When to Leave and When to Stay

    To some Christians, the choice of whether to stay under a toxic leader in the home, workplace, or organization is not a question. They may consider leaving, but the go-to is a belief that God has called them to suffer for Christ’s sake. I assure them, their consciences are not bound by Scripture.

  15. The Prevalence of Toxic Leadership: Are They Under Every Rock?

    Clearly, according to a survey/study done in Sweden bad leadership is not under every rock. Only 42% of those surveyed don’t trust their company’s management team. Is the glass half full?

  16. Insolent Opponents: Can Toxic Leaders Change?

    Like in domestic abuse research, there is debate as to the malleability of abusive people in leadership. I would guess that in most people's experience, there is little hope for such change.

  17. As a Brother: Respecting Subordinates

    Often the focus of Bible teaching—when it comes to leadership and followership—is on the follower. In particular, the focus is on being submissive more often than not. I understand that. However, Scripture also speaks to those in authority.

  18. Flesh and Blood and Spiritual Forces: How do we view Toxic Leaders

    How do we view the world around us? And more specifically, how do we view our “enemies”, particularly those who have abused their authority and deeply wounded those who work under their authority?

  19. Bowing the Knee to Pharisaism: It Never Goes Well

    Pharisaism cannot be mollified. Paul, nor Jesus, ever makes excuses for it. Pharisaic teaching and practice are destructive.

  20. The Effective Leader: Temperance, Empathy, and Humility

    A friend of mine says, "Leadership is easy when things are easy. But real leadership happens when things are difficult." It is in those challenging times that the real heart of the leader becomes evident. All sorts of airs can be put on when everyone is getting along, the production is going...

  21. Followership: Obedience to Toxic Leadership

    Scripture is full of twists and turns that help us navigate the complexities of our world. One such twist is how Scripture handles "turning the other cheek" (Matthew 5:39). Do we with toxic leaders?

  22. Hypocricy: Boasting of Rightness, Living Wrong

    One of the most damaging things to an organization is a leader who is a hypocrite. The Oxford Dictionary defines hypocrisy as the practice of claiming to have moral standards or beliefs to which one's own behavior does not conform; pretense.

  23. James and Oppression 4: Hear the Cries

    In this four-part series on the book of James I have sought to look into how the brother of Jesus handles the evil of abusive behavior and motives. This final installment looks at how James wraps up his theme. It is very helpful in providing the prescription for leaders seeking to turn from...

  24. James and Oppression 3: Concupiscence

    In the American church we have a determined focus on desires for wrongful sex, but James—the writer of the book by that name in the New Testament—has a distinctively different focus: broken relationships. He zeros in on fights of which there are many between a toxic leader and his/her subordinates.

  25. James and Oppression 2: The Center of Toxic Leadership

    In this second look at the book of James, we will consider the center of toxic leadership. As was noted in part one of this series, much teaching in leadership circles looks at the outward behavior of the leader as the standard. But that isn't the standard for Christians.

  26. James and Oppression 1: Murderous Words

    The book of James has profound insights on oppressive leadership, hypocrisy, and the power of words in Christian contexts. This is the first in a series on James and oppression.

  27. What's Their Problem: Diagnosing Toxic Leaders

    Have you wondered why your boss acts the way he does? This is a study of personality disorders and other behavioral problems toxic leaders commonly have.

  28. Submission and the Harsh Boss: 1 Peter 2:18

    In my own experience with toxic leaders, it was common to hear 1 Peter 2:18 quoted or paraphrased by those who wished to protect the authority of leaders. But there is much more to the passage than meets the eye.

  29. The Heart of Leadership: Seeing Subordinates as Souls

    What would leadership look like if the leader viewed his or her subordinates as living souls? What does that even mean?

  30. On Forgiving Because You Have Been Forgiven: There are Qualifications However

    According to much of Scripture on forgiveness, the one who needs forgiveness, needs to ask for forgiveness in order to receive it. But there is another kind of forgiveness.

  31. Jealousy and Leadership: A Toxic Mix

    For the leader who considers his authority questioned whenever another human being in his orbit receives accolades for his or her skills, the temptation to not only covet but attempt control over that gifted one is a problem.

  32. The Gold Standard: When Unacceptable is Better than Those Others

    In the domestic violence world it is common to hear, "Well at least he doesn't hit her." We see the same dynamic in the organization when fellow leaders, boards, or even co-workers suggest that the boss isn't as bad as the last guy.

  33. A Servant vs. a Do[e]g: Complicity with Toxic Leaders

    How do organizations develop systemically abusive leadership? Whether in Nazi Germany or a church in a small town, followers can have a huge impact.

  34. The Heart of [Abusive] Leadership: Becoming leaders with a desire for the good and the capacity to carry it out

    When seeking change in an abusive leader, it must be kept in mind that he or she is deeply deceived. And this is why abuse advocates have so little confidence in the abusive leader to change.

  35. Go On and Kiss the Girl: People-Pleaser-Ahab

    I think I have King Ahab figured out...he is a people-pleaser. This is how people-pleasing and leadership can make a mess.

  36. Ted's Story: A Band of Brothers

    Ted's story is hard to even start the telling. His story is a call to the church to be the church.

  37. Image Management: Lying to the World

    Image management can be a temptation for churches and Christian organizations. We all want others to see us personally in the best light and that gets transferred into how we market our church or organization.

  38. Mission Agency Leaders & Matthew 18

    Sandi has worked for mission agencies almost her entire adult career. And she has experienced multiple toxic leaders in nearly all those agencies.

  39. The 2nd Chair: Suffering a Toxic Leader When 2nd in Command

    Being an Assistant can be very difficult when serving under a toxic leader. Here is some help.

  40. Sin or Safety: Where is Our Focus?

    When it comes to abuse, are we more focused on sin or safety?

  41. Shalom: Peace in the Serving

    Beat up relationships, financial struggle, and thankless service are commonplace in our service in God's kingdom. We find shalom (peace) knowing God is in our work. However, there is an added layer of trial when the employee serves under a toxic leader.

  42. The Golden Rule: How Can Leaders Interpret it Accurately?

    No matter your background, you have likely heard this maxim used. It is simple, to the point, and can be helpful in determining a course of action that is selfless. But is there another interpretation of it that is biblical?

  43. How Toxic Leaders Respond to Strength: Toxic Leadership Goes from Bad to Worse

    The toxic leader will be threatened by the slightest show of strength from subordinates. This was the story of the new king of Egypt in the time following the death of Joseph. But it only gets worse for subordinates.

  44. Creating a Compliant Mega Church: Mark's Story of Abusive Pastoral Leadership

    Mark was a church planter, establishing an off-site satellite campus. He was hired by a large, multi-campus ministry to resurrect a church with less than twenty members. Mark said there were signs of toxicity he should have seen before he signed on.

  45. Sinking a Christian Organization: Normal Leadership Failures

    With multiple degrees and experience in psychology and business, Kets de Vries describes several toxic leadership styles in Leader on the Couch. Though he discusses at length narcissistic and anti-social leaders - unfortunately common toxins among leaders - he names several less psychotic...

  46. Abuse Strips People of Their Hope

    The stories told by participants in my research of toxic leadership portray a range of damage wrought by abusive bosses. In my experience, there is emotional, physical, and spiritual damage done by toxic bosses to their subordinates. No one is unscathed by their abuse.

  47. John & Susan: The Power of Pastor

    John and Susan faced abuse from church leadership, leading to rejection and emotional harm. Despite this, they found healing in a new church community, highlighting the importance of addressing spiritual abuse.

  48. Sheol: For What is Imprecatory Praying Really Asking?

    Praying for those, who are so destructive to other people, to be stopped completely—sent to the grave—is a prayer for the victim and predator. It is for the victim's freedom. And, it is to stop the destruction wrought by the oppressor.

  49. The Failure of Boards and Preempting Toxic Strikes

    The extent of board dysfunction and lack of accountability is shocking. Boards of organizations are normally given authority and responsibility for keeping their CEOs and chairmen accountable. Yet, among the Christian organization employees who were under abusive leadership with whom I have…

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  50. Who is the Greatest: Turn and Become Like a Child

    There was a time—and culture—when children were considered more of a bother and thought much more lowly than now. Yet, Jesus used them as a good example. Leaders, learn from the child.

About this show

Bringing Hope and Healing to Targets of Abusive Leadership in Christian Organizations. Giving voice to our blogs!

Hosted by

Kelly Dehnert

Frequently asked questions

How many episodes does Pearls & Swine Podcast have?

Pearls & Swine Podcast has 50 episodes on PodParley. The most recent episode was published on October 5, 2026.

What is Pearls & Swine Podcast about?

Bringing Hope and Healing to Targets of Abusive Leadership in Christian Organizations. Giving voice to our blogs!

How often does Pearls & Swine Podcast release new episodes?

Pearls & Swine Podcast publishes monthly, based on its 50 episodes since March 2021.

Who hosts Pearls & Swine Podcast?

Pearls & Swine Podcast is created and hosted by Kelly Dehnert.
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