Real Bible Rob: Affirming Christianity Podcast Real Bible Rob - Inclusive Christianity Discussions Real Bible Rob | PCUSA Ministry Insights

Send us Fan MailI am delighted to welcome Dr. Beverly Roberts Gaventa, Retired Distinguished Professor of New Testament Interpretation at Baylor University. She is also Professor Emerita at Princeton Theological Seminary. Many of my PCUSA colleagues took classes taught by Beverly at Princeton. I am a big fan of Beverly's books, including her accessible 2016 book When in Romans: An invitation to linger with the gospel according to Paul and her 2024 Romans: A Commentary. One of my colleagues said I should contact Beverly for an interview and she graciously accepted. Welcome Beverly! I am so excited to meet you. Romans scholarship has changed so much in the last few decades. I feel like I have spent a lifetime wrestling this amazing letter of spiritual reconciliation and freedom, only to experience the weight of the systematic theology laid on it as I learned about Reformed Theology as a young person. You have written a lot about the situatedness of Romans and Paul's sophisticated arguments to build connections between Jewish and Gentile communities in Rome. Reading your commentary and other recent scholarship has helped me see Romans in a new light. I've also heard from others how a fresh look at Romans has redeemed Paul in their eyes. As you wrote: "Writing a commentary on Paul's letter to the Romans is a bit like trying to capture the Atlantic Ocean with a liter bottle." Rather than boil the ocean, I'd rather ask about a few new insights I got from you. Hopefully, we can touch on the fascination that invites us to take off some of the interpretive shackles. 1. Starting with a general question. How have you seen this fresh perspective change students minds? How do you help people see the importance of the situatedness of Paul's letters?  Was that your goal for writing When in Romans? 2. You pay particular attention to Paul's diatribe in Romans 1:18-32 and the sudden jarring turn in 2:1 from third person "they" to second person plural "you all" which you translated as "You there!" I noticed how you reach back to this in subsequent chapters. How does this set up Paul's argument? Especially in Romans 9-11 when it seems to reverse again, putting the finger on the arrogance of Gentiles. Does understanding this help us avoid the theological cherry picking that is often done with the early chapters of Romans?3. I was blown away by your description and the usage of the hilasterion in Romans 3:25. Understanding the nuance of Christ being put forward as the very cover of the ark of the covenant rather than a figurative reference seems to be a very important detail. How does the importance of place help us see atonement in a new way? Hilasterion has been translated many different ways ("propitiation" in KJV, NASB, ESV; "expiation" in RSV; "sacrifice of atonement" in NRSVue; "mercy seat" in CSB; "place of sacrifice" in CEB). What does this say about theology in translation?4. I love Romans 8 as I think most people do. It seems like such relief and a highlight. N. T. Wright has called it the "essential chapter." This seems like a theological statement to me. Do you agree with this characterization? Should we see it as a culmination of the previous chapters about Sin and Death? 5. I am intrigued by the gentleness and grace of Chapter 14. Your heading "Differences over Dinner" is followed by "The Danger of Being Right." This caught my attention because I think we should highlight it more that we typically do. Is chapter 14 a kind of punchline for the letter? Using Chapters 12-13 as the build up toward 14.6. You consistently mention Phoebe's perspective as the carrier, reader and likely editor of the letter throughout your commentary. A careful reading of Chapter 16 should obliterate any notion of excluding women from church leadership. I love the way you say we should be naming our baby girls Tryphaena, Tryphosa, and especially Junia. I've spoken on the words Deacon, Benefactor, "among the Apostles", and the social location of Phoebe and Junia. This seems to redeem Paul the most in many women's eyes. Can you comment on the effect that your writing about this has had on our views of women in leadership?References: Romans: A Commentary (The New Testament Library) by Beverly Roberts Gaventa, 2024When in Romans: An invitation to linger with the gospel according to Paul by Beverly Roberts Gaventa, 2016

Send us Fan MailThe Jesus Seminar and its work to elucidate a historical Jesus ran out of steam. Robert Funk, Marcus Borg, John Dominic Crossan and others did done a lot of great work to put the gospels in historical context. They famously voted on the historical plausibility of the Jesus narrative using colored beads. But by the time the Jesus Seminar disbanded in 2006 after twenty years, they really have seemed to only show how tenuous the historical Jesus really is. I argue in this insightful podcast episode that the main problem of the Jesus Seminar is that they were answering the wrong question. They fall into the same trap of historical criticism that fundamentalists do. They rely on fact rather than narrative. This is a major fallacy of biblical apologetics. I describe how Walter Brueggemann's book "The Prophetic Imagination" was a watershed describing the shift to Narrative Criticism and other biblical interpretation methods that are much more widely adopted in today's scholarship.I was talking with someone who I really care about. He was frustrated that the liberal church he grew up in was obsessed with Historical Jesus, and the Jesus Seminar with Marcus Borg & John Dominic Crossan. He thought it cheapened the divinity of Christ, he was stunned when I agreed. The Historical Jesus sought to answer the wrong question however. It had its purpose, but whether Jesus, his life and the bible is historically correct is a fools game that comes from the enlightenment. It's the same game as fundamentalists play. It adds to scripture rather than illuminates it. That's why I love Walter Brueggemann’s work so much. It's the narrative that's important not historical fact. Even history is narrative depends on the author & the perspective of the reader. A very important lesson I learned in seminary. Prophetic Imagination is not a luxury, but the heart of biblical interpretation. God speaks to us in stories not bulletin points on PowerPoint. 

Send us Fan MailWe really must decolonize Christianity if we are ever going to free ourselves from Christian Nationalism and help people grow spiritually. Romans 3 is the heart of the doctrine of Total Depravity and the Penal Substitutionary theory of Atonement. This came from Augustine, Anselm and then culminated in Calvin. But it depends on a deeply antisemitic reading of Romans 3 and the coopting of Paul's message for systematic theology. In this episode, I describe a modern, open and affirming faith, that is free from the bondage of these outdated theologies. We can escape the tyranny of bad theology to develop a more holistic faith. Many people think Romans 3:10-18 “There is no one who is righteous, not even one” as proof of Total Depravity and Romans 3:25 “Christ Jesus whom God put forward as a propitiation by his blood, to be received by faith” as proof of PSA without a second thought. But Calvin literally ignored half of Paul's argument and then universalized it to create his theology. But if you read closely Romans is a grand argument between Paul & an imaginary opponent which scholars call the interlocutor. Paul purposely cherrypicked the Old Testament to create his diatribe of depravity as one side of the argument. He references the Hiiasterion, the Mercy Seat of Yom Kippur to show how Christ covers sin not substitutionary propitiation. 

Send us Fan MailIsrael is constantly in the news. Some people are very annoyed by this, others are dismissive, and others are hyperpartisan about it. While it feels like current events, Israel has actually had an outsized role for thousands. Israel has vexed some of the largest and most important empires throughout history. The Babylonians, Egyptians, Romans, the Catholic Church, Spaniards, Europeans and now Americans have all had a puzzling relationship with Israel and Judaism. And it continues. Today, our relationship with Israel is dividing the American left and causing the current administration to wage an ill-advised war against Iran. In this episode, I provide a personal perspective on Israel and its defense industry. I compare my conflicted feelings about modern Israel with Paul's feelings expressed in Romans 9.9 I am speaking the truth in Christ—I am not lying; my conscience confirms it by the Holy Spirit— 2 I have great sorrow and unceasing anguish in my heart. 3 For I could wish that I myself were accursed and cut off from Christ for the sake of my own brothers and sisters, my own flesh and blood. 4 They are Israelites, and to them belong the adoption, the glory, the covenants, the giving of the law, the worship, and the promises; 5 to them belong the patriarchs, and from them, according to the flesh, comes the Christ, who is over all, God blessed forever.[a] Amen.30 What then are we to say? Gentiles, who did not strive for righteousness, have attained it, that is, righteousness through faith, 31 but Israel, who did strive for the law of righteousness, did not attain that law. 32 Why not? Because they did not strive for it on the basis of faith but as if it were based on works. They have stumbled over the stumbling stone, 33 as it is written,“See, I am laying in Zion a stone that will make people stumble, a rock that will make them fall,    and whoever trusts in him[c] will not be put to shame.”

Send us Fan MailRomans 6 begins the heart of Paul's letter. Paul speaks in an imaginary dialogue in his arguments to the Romans. He asks a rhetorical question like "Should we continue in Sin in order that grace may abound?" and then says "By no means!" again and again. Sin is portrayed like a character and Christ is the alternative that defeats Sin. We don't have to be slaves to Sin anymore! In this episode, I talk about Sin expansively. What make destructive behavior in animals not sinful? Why is it sinful when humans do these things? Most people will say it is because animals have no choice and they operate out of instinct, but humans are far more instinctual than we realize. So there much be another explanation. Matthew Croasmun's book provides a fascinating discussion about the emergence of Sin in the Christian consciousness. I also reference my discussion with Mattie Mae Motl in Season 2, Episode 15 and her recent Substack article on Romans 6 & 7.Resource: The Emergence of Sin: The Cosmic Tyrant in Romansby Matthew Croasmun, 2019For the past several months there has been a civil war in Uganda. This civil war is different than you expect. Chimpanzees in Uganda's Kibale National Park have been brutally killing each other for months. These wars happen periodically every few decades. Primatologists from around the world have been studying it with great interest. What is interesting about these is that they have all the features of human warfare: strategy, battle tactics, weapons preparation and stockpiling, truces, alliances, and even peace treaties between these chimp clans.  The difference between chimpanzee and human warfare is the scale, the tools, and the sophistication of the weaponry. The underlying motives and rhythms of war are strikingly similar. Is this immoral? Is it immoral for a chimp to kill another chimp? Another example is that cats are often extremely cruel to their prey. Laming, torturing, and playing with their prey before killing them. Often just leaving the carcass uneaten. It looks like killing for fun. Is this immoral? When humans do these things, we think it is grossly immoral. What's different? Most of us say that humans are not cats or chimps. We have a choice. They are merely acting out of instinct. We are held to a moral standard that animals aren't.Is this true? Are we really less instinctual than animals? We are finding out that we probably aren't necessarily. Studies of human behavior show that when children who are less than 2-1/2 years old are consistently exposed to certain people like siblings and parents and friends, when the children become adults, they are far less likely to be sexually attracted to the people they knew as young children. Rather than social conditioning, the evidence is that we are biologically programmed to avoid incest. Disgust at incest between siblings and of children toward their parents and caretakers is instinctual. Our biology has a bias against inbreeding built in. The disgust response is so strong that we behave in many ways that we have no conscious control over. We all agree that incest is an abomination, but it usually has less to do with moral rectitude and righteousness than being in tune with our biology. Sadly, this doesn't work as well for adults toward children, or step parents, or aunts and uncles who did not have that early bond. So their disgust must come from morality and law. And children need to be listened to and protected. This is a bit of extreme example, but what is it that constitutes Sin is more than just our sinful nature or depravity. It is about empathy and care. It is also utilitarian. We simply don't want to hurt other people or our own wellbeing. That is why basic moral principles and laws are remarkably similar between societies that don't have historic contact between each other, regardless of religion or language or history. The differences are usually small and outbursts of gross societal immorality are usually based on trauma retribution and revenge. We must always ask, is Sin always a matter of choice? Are people who are psychopaths or have mental illness who do reprehensible things sinning? It is the brokenness of humanity that we see in Sin. It is always there. And it seems that sinning isn't just Sin, or breaking the law, but it is also anything that hurts other people and yourself. It is going against the organism, and the superorganism of community. More on this later. In Romans 6, Paul gives us one of the most cogent descriptions of Sin in ancient literature. He does this in a fascinating way that is worth exploring. Rather than just individual actions, small letter-s sin, he portrays sin as big letter-S Sin, like a character in the narrative. In the same way, he portrays Death as a character. In this way, Paul contrasts the character Sin and its brother Death in contrast to Christ and Life. This is formulation of Greek philosophy, especially from Plato, that is so familiar to us as Americans, it is hard to recognize. Making Sin a character acknowledges that it stands apart from choice. Paul will tell us in Romans 7:15, “I do not understand my own actions. For I do not do what I want, but I do the very thing I hate.” This is an early acknowledgment that we aren’t in control of ourselves and a pre-scientific insight that humans are far more instinctual than our consciousness recognizes. The truth is that we can’t control our attractions but we can only respond to them. The practical aspect of seeing Sin as Paul describes it is that Sin is Sin much like Shame is Shame. It just is. Because we live in Christ we can acknowledge Sin, and we can feel shame but then move on, forgiven. We are no longer enslaved by it. We can feel sorry and maybe guilty, but that is not the end. We can let it go without pretending that it doesn’t exist. I told you about the ambiguities of human nature vs. animal behavior, instinct vs. choice at the start of this sermon. We have all been biologically programmed for survival. Like all organisms we are very concerned with the self-preservation of our bodies. But our organism extends far beyond the individual, because we are inherently social beings. We live within the super-organism of society and also the earth around us. We are never just unto ourselves. Even the 10 trillion cells in your body aren’t only for themselves. That’s not all you are. Your body is host to something like another 40 trillion cells, bacteria, yeasts, molds, etc, meaning that you are a complete eco-system in your own body. So our super-organism is not just with other people, but with the organisms and environment of the whole earth. We can’t live without it. None of us is only unto ourselves. The denial of this and acting against this integrated super organism is the big S Sin. It is far more than just breaking the rules.I’ll close with another biological analogy to help understand what this means. Beehives are a fascinating super organism. Bees act as a team and they hyper organized. They innately organize themselves. And like we do, they depend on their environment, plants and a whole host of other organisms, even microorganisms in their own bodies to build hives. Individuals regularly sacrifice themselves and their own individual well-being for the sake of the hive and service to the queen bee. We would call this altruism. But it is really no different than loyalty or even patriotism. We think that bees do this purely by instinct and humans do it rationally. But we do far more by instinct, social pressure, altruism, loyalty that we realize. We also do things that are destructive and selfish, sometimes willfully and other other times instinctually far more than we realize. This is Sin. Being in Christ not only frees us from Death, but also frees us from having to sort out every twist and turn of our own behavior. Christ frees us from Shame. Because we know what whether willful or not, we are already forgiven. That we are set free from the tyranny of Sin hanging over our heads. To live in harmony with our bodies, with our fellow human beings, but also with our environment and earth. Being free from the destructive forces that tell us that we and all that is around us are not valuable. That death is never the end of the story. To be a fully integrated person, wounded and healed, sinful and forgiven, dead and resurrected. This is what living in Christ is. 

Send us Fan MailThe conquering of Jerusalem by the Babylonians was the worst thing that ever happened to the ancient Israelite people. Some of the people were dragged off to Babylon and many of them were left behind. For 50 long years, they were separated. Then suddenly King Cyrus allowed the people who were taken away to go home, back to Jerusalem. Would the people be able to get along with the people who stayed behind. In this episode, I tell you about the troubles of the chief priest Ezra, what it was like to have people against him. It is the like the story of a teacher of mine, who moved to Korea. They felt in between. They weren't sure they felt American or whether they felt Korean. Many people who come from other countries feel like this. Perhaps you have felt confused about where you fit. The books of Ezra and Nehemiah is all about finding a new sense of home. Reference: Roger S. Nam, "The Theology of the Books of Ezra and Nehemiah (Old Testament Theology)", 2024Ezra 1:1 In the first year of King Cyrus of Persia’s rule, to fulfill the Lord’s word spoken by Jeremiah, the Lord stirred up the spirit of Persia’s King Cyrus. The king issued a proclamation throughout his kingdom (it was also in writing) that stated:2 Persia’s King Cyrus says: The Lord, the God of heaven, has given me all the kingdoms of the earth. He has commanded me to build him a house at Jerusalem in Judah. 3 If there are any of you who are from his people, may their God be with them! They may go up to Jerusalem in Judah and build the house of the Lord, the God of Israel—he is the God who is in Jerusalem. 4 And as for all those who remain in the various places where they are living, let the people of those places supply them with silver and gold, and with goods and livestock, together with spontaneous gifts for God’s house in Jerusalem

Send us Fan MailPeople take the Bible way too seriously. By reading it out loud and you can see the humor and irony. Paul was a master at using hyperbole to shake up his audience. He often uses "vice lists" where he throws the kitchen sink in obliterate a con  Romans 1:18-32 is the famous diatribe against pagan worship. While its audience is not clear, it purpose is. It sets up the rest of the letter. In this fun episode, I do a dramatic reading of two passages to highlight how it must have sounded to the listeners in Rome when Phoebe read it to them. I also give a few other examples of diatribe being used in the New Testament. I also make an endorsement for Eugene Peterson's The Message, which does such a good job of making Bible reading fun. Romans 1:24 Therefore God gave them over in the desires of their hearts to impurity, to the dishonoring of their bodies among themselves. 25 They exchanged the truth about God for a lie and worshiped and served the creature rather than the Creator, who is blessed forever! Amen.26 For this reason God gave them over to dishonorable passions. Their females exchanged natural intercourse[e] for unnatural, 27 and in the same way also the males, giving up natural intercourse[f] with females, were consumed with their passionate desires for one another. Males committed shameless acts with males and received in their own persons the due penalty for their error.28 And since they did not see fit to acknowledge God, God gave them over to an unfit mind and to do things that should not be done. 29 They were filled with every kind of injustice, evil, covetousness, malice. Full of envy, murder, strife, deceit, craftiness, they are gossips, 30 slanderers, God-haters,[g] insolent, haughty, boastful, inventors of evil, rebellious toward parents, 31 foolish, faithless, heartless, ruthless. 32 They know God’s decree, that those who practice such things deserve to die, yet they not only do them but even applaud others who practice them.Romans 3:9 What then? Are we any better off?[c] No, not at all, for we have already charged that all, both Jews and Greeks, are under the power of sin, 10 as it is written:“There is no one who is righteous, not even one;11     there is no one who has understanding;        there is no one who seeks God.12 All have turned aside; together they have become worthless;    there is no one who shows kindness;        there is not even one.”13 “Their throats are opened graves;    they use their tongues to deceive.”“The venom of vipers is under their lips.”14     “Their mouths are full of cursing and bitterness.”15 “Their feet are swift to shed blood;16     ruin and misery are in their paths,17 and the way of peace they have not known.”18     “There is no fear of God before their eyes.”This hodgepodge comes from a scattering of cherry picked verses. This is where I will take you down a rabbit hole for a moment. I promise, it is worth it. First is total depravity.  Paul cites a grab bag of verses in Old Testament, from Ecclesiastes 7:20, Psalms 5, 14, 53, and 140 and sprinkles in a little Proverbs 1 and Isaiah 59 for seasoning. That’s an awful lot for just 9 verses.Revelation 21:6 Then he said to me, “It is done! I am the Alpha and the Omega, the Beginning and the End. To the thirsty I will give water as a gift from the spring of the water of life. 7 Those who conquer will inherit these things, and I will be their God, and they will be my children. 8 But as for the cowardly, the faithless,[f] the polluted, the murderers, the sexually immoral,[g] the sorcerers, the idolaters, and all liars, their place will be in the lake that burns with fire and sulfur, which is the second death.”Revelation 22:13 I am the Alpha and the Omega, the First and the Last, the Beginning and the End.”14 Blessed are those who wash their robes,[c] so that they will have the right to the tree of life and may enter the city by the gates. 15 Outside are the dogs and sorcerers and sexually immoral[d] and murderers and idolaters and everyone who loves and practices falsehood.The Message, Romans 5:12-14 You know the story of how Adam landed us in the dilemma we’re in—first sin, then death, and no one exempt from either sin or death. That sin disturbed relations with God in everything and everyone, but the extent of the disturbance was not clear until God spelled it out in detail to Moses. So death, this huge abyss separating us from God, dominated the landscape from Adam to Moses. Even those who didn’t sin precisely as Adam did by disobeying a specific command of God still had to experience this termination of life, this separation from God. But Adam, who got us into this, also points ahead to the One who will get us out of it.

Send us Fan MailBible publishing is big business. Hundreds of millions of dollars are spent on marketing both in advertising and promotion and giving away free copies every year. One way to build confidence in a Bible version is to say that it is the most word-for-word version and by implication the most reliable version. This is contrasted with meaning-for-meaning. The New American Standard Bible (NASB) and its predecessors is routinely described as the most word-for-word. As a version that most strictly applies word equivalents to Hebrew and Greek, this is mostly true. But is it really more accurate? Does the reader gain a better understanding of the text? In this informative episode, I argue that word-for-word versions often inject more theological bias than illumination. I highlight a contentious verse, Romans 3:25, as an example. I also touch on two other verses where the NASB is less word-for-word than the far more scholarly based NRSVue Bible. The best version is the one that clearly transmits the intent of the author as much as we can discern. CSBGod presented him as the mercy seat by his blood, through faith, to demonstrate his righteousness, because in his restraint God passed over the sins previously committed.CEBThrough his faithfulness, God displayed Jesus as the place of sacrifice where mercy is found by means of his blood. He did this to demonstrate his righteousness in passing over sins that happened before,LSB/NASBwhom God displayed publicly as a propitiation in His blood through faith, for a demonstration of His righteousness, because in the forbearance of God He passed over the sins previously committed;NRSVUEwhom God put forward as a sacrifice of atonement by his blood, effective through faith. He did this to demonstrate his righteousness, because in his divine forbearance he had passed over the sins previously committed;Beverly Gaventa, along with many scholars, interprets hilasterion in Romans 3:25 primarily as a reference to the mercy seat (kapporet) of the Old Testament Ark of the Covenant, rather than just "propitiation" or "expiation." In this view, Christ is the "place" where atonement is made, bringing together divine justice and mercy. Key aspects of this interpretation include:• The "Place" of Atonement: Rather than a mere action, hilasterion functions as a location where God’s glory dwells, and through Christ’s blood, this becomes accessible to all believers.• Replacement of the Temple: This imagery signifies that the cross replaces the Temple as the functional place of atonement, setting it in public view rather than in the hidden Holy of Holies.• Atonement Context: It ties Christ’s sacrifice to the Day of Atonement rituals, focusing on the purification and reconciliation of sinners and the overcoming of sin's power.Leviticus 19:16 CSBDo not go about spreading slander among your people; do not jeopardize your neighbor’s life; I am the Lord.CEBDo not go around slandering your people. Do not stand by while your neighbor’s blood is shed; I am the Lord.NRSVUEYou shall not go around as a slanderer among your people, and you shall not stand idly by when the blood of your neighbor is at stake: I am the Lord.Romans 16:7 CSBGreet Andronicus and Junia, my fellow Jews and fellow prisoners. They are noteworthy in the eyes of the apostles, and they were also in Christ before me.LSBGreet Andronicus and Junia, my kinsmen and my fellow prisoners, who are outstanding to the apostles, who also were in Christ before me.NASBGreet Andronicus and Junia, my kinsfolk and my fellow prisoners, who are outstanding in the view of the apostles, who also were in Christ before me.NRSVUEGreet Andronicus and Junia, my fellow Israelites who were in prison with me; they are prominent among the apostles, and they were in Christ before I was.MSGHello to my&

Send us Fan MailOne of the strangest things you will hear when speaking about the Bible online is "I don't need to learn Hebrew or Greek to understand the Bible." I agree that you can do great work with good solid English translations, but there is always more to learn. In this practical episode, I speak about the strengths and weaknesses of different study methods. I describe how to use Interlinear Bibles and Concordances. Nowadays, the best language study can be done online. I tell you about the pitfalls. Greek and Hebrew word study can be very helpful, but you must be very careful because there is must more than just the definition of words. Verbal aspect and idiom are very important. Don't be afraid to approach the biblical languages, just be sure to listen to good scholarship and know how to use the tools well. The Bible was written in ancient languages long before we got it in English. English like we know it wasn't even around until about 500 years ago, but the Bible is over 2000 years old. The Old Testament was written in Hebrew and the New Testament in Greek. A lot of people work hard to understand what the Bible really said, because it is hard to translate from one language to another. You know this if you speak Spanish or French or any other language than English too. What makes it even harder with the Bible is that Hebrew and Greek are so old that we can't just ask someone what they meant. I had to learn about Hebrew and Greek to become a pastor. I am not an expert, but I know enough to know what is important. In this episode, I tell you about the history of the Bible and how it came into English. Then I tell you why it is still important to know something about these ancient languages. We continue to learn so much more and our English bibles are still changing. It is always interesting and exciting. 

Send us Fan MailIn this episode, I tell about one of the most important people in the whole New Testament. There are only two verses about her, but her story is much deeper. She was a prominent Christian leader because she was a deacon and a benefactor. Mostly likely a wealthy widow, she was many who strongly supported the Christian mission and who were crucial in the spread of Christianity. She was the person who carried the letter to the Romans. This was Paul's most important letter and Phoebe as a single woman had to carry 500 miles and then read and explain it to people in Rome. How do we know all of this? Bible scholars know what the cultures were like. They know how Paul worked with other people. Most of all they know how the early church was supported. The story of Phoebe tells us so much about how we can know so much about the Bible almost 2000 years after it was written, especially about how women worked in the church. Introduction to Phoebe16 I’m introducing our sister Phoebe to you, who is a deacon (servant) of the church in Cenchreae. 2 Welcome her in the Lord in a way that is worthy of God’s people, and give her whatever she needs from you, because she herself has been a sponsor (benefactor) of many people, myself included.Greetings to Roman Christians3 Say hello to Prisca and Aquila, my coworkers in Christ Jesus, 4 who risked their own necks for my life. I’m not the only one who thanks God for them, but all the churches of the Gentiles do the same. 5 Also say hello to the church that meets in their house. Say hello to Epaenetus, my dear friend, who was the first convert in Asia for Christ. 6 Say hello to Mary, who has worked very hard for you. 7 Say hello to Andronicus and Junia, my relatives and my fellow prisoners. They are prominent among (as) the apostles, and they were in Christ before me. 

Send us Fan MailYoung Christians live in fear of committing the "unforgivable sin"—a false doctrine rooted in harmful theology that keeps people trapped in shame. In this healing episode, Real Bible Rob explores how affirming Christianity and modern Bible interpretation can free you from this fear. Whether you've struggled with intrusive thoughts about blasphemy or questioned punitive theology, this conversation offers grace-centered perspective grounded in Scripture.I tell you about the most heartbreaking messages I receive from young people when ask me if they have committed the unforgivable sin. They worry they are doomed to hell because of blasphemy. I always wonder if it was a pastor or a Sunday school teacher that filled them with this fear. In this hard hitting episode, I tell you why you don’t need to fear it. Blasphemy is a very aggressive and special kind of sin that few of us, and virtually no teenager, can commit. Also, blasphemy against the Holy Spirit was something very special that Jesus spoke about in Matthew 12:31-32 and Mark 3:28-30. If you are worried about this, it is really important to understand what it means and how people use this fear to scare and control you. This is important knowledge to have. The Parable of the Prodigal Son (Luke 15:11-32) is a story of unconditional love, repentance, and forgiveness. This is super useful for understanding the character of God. The unforgivable sin, or "unpardonable sin," in the Gospels is blasphemy against the Holy Spirit, specifically described in Matthew 12:31-32, Mark 3:28-30, and Luke 12:10. It involves willfully and persistently attributing the work of the Holy Spirit to Satan, as the Pharisees did when accusing Jesus of using demonic power, indicating a hard-hearted, final rejection of Christ's salvific work.Outline: The heartbreak of hearing people fret about the unforgivable sin. Unforgivable Sin MisconceptionBlasphemy Biblical OriginDefining BlasphemyWhy Blasphemy against the Holy Spirit is differentProdigal Son ForgivenessRejecting Fear Tactics - pushing punishment and reward

Send us Fan MailDaniel is such a fun book. It has the men with funny names thrown into the fiery furnace. They are saved without even the slightest burn and with an angel appearing in the fire with them. It has Daniel thrown into the Lion's Den by King Belshazzer in a fit of rage. Then the lion's mouth is shut. These miraculous stories are amazing. A follower of mine said, "why don't you talk about Daniel's dreams in Chapter 7?" So I will tell you about this amazing dream because it connects the two parts of Daniel: the first part with these amazing stories and the second part with all these crazy images, just like Revelation. Dreams are such a big part of the Bible. Daniel was the last book of the Old Testament written between 167 and 165 BC. That is confusing, because our Bibles put Malachi last, but they did this to link the Old Testament with the New Testament. Even though Daniel was written about things that happened 400 years before, it's story telling tells us so much about the people living just before Jesus. If you could take your Bible apart and put it back together, you should put Daniel last. I explain how this timeline is so interesting and how it helps to make this weird dream make sense.Reference: "Strong As Death Is Love" by Robert Alter

Send us Fan MailDoes your pastor tell you “the heart is deceitful” and “lean not on your own understanding” to get you to not trust yourself or your intuition? This is pure gaslighting and you should run away from them. It’s often a trick played by dominant men to push down women and minorities. I call it depravity porn and you don't have to fall for it.The verses Jeremiah 17:9 and Proverbs 3:5 are grossly misused for this. They mean the opposite of what these pastors use it for. In this episode, I explain what these verses mean in context, looking at Hebrew and its interpretation. I also talk about the psychological manipulation that reformed evangelists like Paul Washer use. Like boot camp, the goal is to weaken and breakdown a person and then fill them with your perspective. Depravity porn is their main tool for psychological gaslighting.The NET does by far the best job of translating Jeremiah 17:9-10 "The human mind is more deceitful than anything else. It is incurably bad. Who can understand it?I, the Lord, probe into people’s minds. I examine people’s hearts. I deal with each person according to how he has behaved. I give them what they deserve based on what they have done."Proverbs 3:5 Trust in the Lord with all your heart, and do not rely on your own understanding.

Send us Fan MailThomas was one of the most impressive apostles for a number of reasons. He is the instigator of change and perception in the Gospel of John. He is unfairly called Doubting Thomas to highlight his saying he wouldn't believe in the risen Christ until he put his hands on Jesus’s wounds to believe Jesus had risen. Without we would not have had such a clear physical manifestation of Christ. Thomas shows up 3 times in the Gospel of John. He also inspired the Gospel of Thomas which many people thought should have been in the Bible. The “doubting” was really more about being practical and smart than about unbelief. In this episode I explain why we should look up to Thomas. Also why many people really admire him even today. 

Send us Fan MailHow does trauma shape sacred law? In this episode, Rob explores trauma responses woven through Exodus and Leviticus with Elle @literallythebible, examining how the Israelites' PTSD from slavery informed the Levitical legal codes. Discover how codifying law wasn't oppressive rule-making—it was communal healing. A trauma-informed Bible interpretation for affirming Christianity, showing how understanding biblical trauma reshapes modern faith and pastoral care. I wish more people would read the Bible like Elle does. I highly recommend following her on TikTok @literallythebible. 

Send us Fan MailI am so excited to welcome Mattie Mae Motl to the podcast. She has made a big splash on social media. With lots of knowledge and some considerable sass in her videos, she is changing the conversation about biblical scholarship for a popular audience. This is incredibly important to reclaim rationality in Christianity especially for young people. There is so much disinformation about scriptures. She is a PhD candidate in Biblical Studies focused on Gender and Sexuality in the New Testament at the University of St. Andrews in Scotland. I ask about her research, especially around the changing ideas about marriage and consent. How does this relate to our use of scripture versus historical uses? I explore where she wants to take this and how it will impact the future of the church especially as young people reject the patriarchal church of the past.  Resource: The Emergence of Sin: The Cosmic Tyrant in Romansby Matthew Croasmun, 2019

Send us Fan MailIn this insightful episode, we explore the story of Gideon from Judges 6 & 7 through the lens of inclusive Christianity and affirming faith. This narrative of 'less is more' not only reflects the underdog spirit embedded throughout the Bible but also offers profound lessons for modern Christian faith and spirituality. As a Presbyterian USA minister, I delve into Bible interpretation that challenges imperial and persecution myths historically prevalent in Christianity, emphasizing a subversive, anti-empire perspective. Join me this Easter season for a personal reflection on how the story of Gideon sustains and inspires a truly inclusive, affirming Christianity in today's context.Less is more when it comes to warfare. This is often the case with faith. Apologists load up theology with proofs. Churches load up worship with entertainment. The story of Gideon is the ultimate less is more story in the Bible. In this highly personal episode, I describe how the story of Gideon is sustaining me during this Easter season. The Bible is a story of underdogs from start to finish. The Israelites were always on the verge of extinction. The Jewish people continued this legacy through the ages into modern times. It is tricky to take these stories for encouragement while avoiding the common persecution myth that is so prevalent in Christianity. This myth is behind all imperial forms of Christianity from Constantine to the Crusades to the American Christian Nationalism. But if we take it to heart the story of Gideon is always subversive and sneaky. When read in context, it is always anti-empire. 

Send us Fan MailIn this episode, we explore the challenging topic of grief and lament within evangelical communities, focusing on Psalm 88 as a powerful expression of authentic sorrow often suppressed in favor of performative happiness. Drawing a contrast with the commonly used Psalm 23 at funerals, this discussion delves into how evangelical teachings can shame genuine feelings, impacting spirituality and individual grief processes. As a Presbyterian USA minister committed to affirming and inclusive Christianity, I examine how these dynamics reflect broader issues within modern Christian faith and the cultural wars surrounding empathy. Join me to uncover why embracing true lament is essential for spiritual growth and healing within the church and beyond.This is a companion to my episode about Psalm 23. Wanting to keep it peaceful, I saved my ranting for this episode. Why aren't you allowed to feel? Erika Kirk, the wife of slain conservative activist Charlie Kirk, is a case study in case study in evangelical Christian performance covering up genuine feelings. Ask anyone who has deconstructed from high control religion and they will say the first thing they say is that it was all a lie. They don't mean spirituality or even Christianity itself. They mean the substituted feelings and performative happiness. It is an exaggeration of the American ethos of individualism. Even the choice of the most beautiful Psalm 23 for funerals belies the substitution. Real grief comes in the form of Psalm 88. I explain where this comes from. Then I explain how the war on empathy is also a war on grief and lament, and how this is driving so much of the division in the Culture Wars. Two John Piper quotes that show this.Previous episodes:S2 E5 "Misreading Scripture to push Fascist Ideology - Inclusive Affirming Christianity Romans 13 & Jeremiah 17"S2 E12 "Psalm 23's Beauty: An Affirming Christian Interpretation Beyond Grief"

Send us Fan MailIn this peaceful and soulful episode of 'Real Bible Rob,' an affirming Christian and PCUSA minister delves into the incredible beauty of Psalm 23, exploring its rich imagery through a fresh, inclusive interpretation. Often read in times of grief, this Psalm offers more than comfort—it reveals God's boundless love and grace through intimate Hebrew language and modern Christian spirituality. Join us as we reinterpret David's famous Psalm, unpacking its biblical depth and spiritual significance in the context of affirming Christianity and inclusive faith practices. Featuring insights from Robert Alter's 'The Book of Psalms' and a unique translation by Rob Christ, this episode highlights how scripture can speak to contemporary seekers of spiritual growth and understanding within the PCUSA ministry framework.Rob Christ's translation of Psalm 23 from the original Hebrew:A song of David: The Lord is my shepherd, I will lack nothingHe causes me to sprawl on fresh grass, He leads me to waters of calmHe saves my life, He guides me on the right paths on account of his name.Even though I walk through ravines of deep darkness, I will not fear danger, because you are with me; your club and your shepherd crook bring me comfort.You prepare a lavish meal before me in front of my enemies, you honor me with oil on my head, my wine cup is always full.Surely goodness and loyal love will pursue me all my days: and I will stay in the Lord’s house all my life.

Send us Fan MailIn this episode, we dive deep into the Book of Joshua, exploring its complex narratives through modern Bible interpretation. While highlighting the well-known story of the destruction of Jericho, we challenge traditional views held by many and examine the political and spiritual implications behind the first 12 chapters. As part of an affirming Christianity perspective, we reflect on how violent conquest narratives contrast with inclusive and compassionate Christian faith. Drawing lessons from this foundational myth, we connect it with contemporary issues in diplomacy and nation-building, underscoring the importance of spiritual growth and thoughtful engagement in modern Christian faith. Whether you're interested in PCUSA ministry insights or inclusive Christianity, this episode offers a critical, nuanced look at scripture and spirituality.Joshua is a fascinating book for several reasons. Everyone knows the story of the destruction of Jericho and the string of conquests. It is a foundational myth of Israel's occupation and spread throughout Canaan. There are big problems with this narrative. First, it isn't true. There is no archeological evidence. Secondly, it blames their political divisions and lack of success on not being genocidal and brutal enough. God's command of Herem (also known as the Ban or total war) is not consistent with a loving God, but entirely tied to the politics of a unifying national myth. In this episode, we describe how the conquest of the first 12 chapters overshadows the nation building and negotiations of the last 12 chapters. While the first part is myth building, the second half tells us more about politics and power dynamics. There is a big lesson for us today. Americans have achieved great success in bombing adversaries and decapitating dictatorships, but have often failed at nation building and diplomacy. Joshua shows that violence is an easy quick fix but diplomacy is hard and delicate. This is a far greater part of the story of the Old Testament than violent conquests.  Reference:Robert Alter's "The Hebrew Bible, Prophets, Introduction to Joshua", 2019.

Send us Fan MailWe welcome New Testament Professor Lynn Huber back to the podcast to discuss how gender switching and the queering of the characters are a central crucial message of the Book of Revelation. In her amazing "Revelation: A Wisdom Commentary," Dr. Huber shows how the author of Revelation, John uses gender to describe, oppose, and mock Roman societal norms. We focus a few passages, such as the Lion of Judah vs. the Wounded Lamb in chapter 5, the Woman Clothed in the Sun vs. the Dragon in chapter 13, the over-the-top everyone-including-the-kitchen-sink Beast and its phallic imagery in chapter 14, and the great prostitute of Babylon in chapter 17, to tell us about John's motivations and our modern feminist interpretations of Revelation. With the war in Iran and the conversation about end times theology, Revelation is in the news and in our conversation. Join us for an insightful, uplifting, and fun discussion.Previous Episode with Lynn: Season 1, Episode 57, August 9, 2025 "Revelation Queerness with Professor Lynn HuberUseful Resources:"Revelation: A Wisdom Commentary" by Lynn R. Huber and Gail R. O'Day, 2023Good use of the Lion and Lamb images:https://characterofgod.org/lion-of-the-tribe-of-judah/Bad use of the Lion and Lamb image: https://hopespringministries.org/2010/12/01/the-lamb-and-the-lion/

Send us Fan MailIn this episode, we explore the nature of God through the story of Moses receiving the law on Mount Sinai, highlighting God's willingness to listen, change, and negotiate rather than rule as a dictator. As an affirming Christian and PCUSA ministry leader, I delve into how this narrative illustrates inclusive Christianity and challenges traditional views of God's immutability and impassibility. We journey through detailed Bible interpretation to understand God's relationship with humanity, emphasizing that faith in the modern Christian context involves partnership and dialogue with God. Discover how these ancient stories inform contemporary spirituality and the embodiment of God in Jesus Christ during the Transfiguration. This discussion aims to deepen understanding of an open, affirming faith embracing the messiness and complexity of scripture and life.Previous episodes: Calvinism vs. Reality: Determinism and Probablity, S1E17, Jan 18, 2025Theology of Nonsense: Questioning Systematic Theology and Calvinism, S1E73, Nov 29, 2025Exploring Free Will and Complexity: Hope for a Modern Faith, S2E7, Feb 14, 2026

Send us Fan MailIn this episode, we delve into the complex interpretation of the story of the woman caught in adultery, a passage often misunderstood and misused by Christians. As part of my work in affirming Christianity and inclusive Christian faith, I explore how this woman's story has been subjected to abuse—both in the original context and through modern misapplication. We examine the history of this passage, including its selective inclusion in the Gospel of John, and challenge the traditional evangelical use of Jesus' words "Go and sin no more" as a tool for shame rather than mercy. There are many verses that show that God's mercy is not conditional on repentance. Join me, a Presbyterian USA minister committed to thoughtful Bible interpretation and spiritual growth, as we reframe this verse to uphold compassion and reject evangelical cruelty. This episode offers fresh insights into modern Christian faith and encourages a more inclusive and affirming approach to scripture.The woman caught in adultery was an abused woman. And we keep just abusing her. And it is time to stop doing it. We have no idea why she was singled out and why the man was not also accused, but this tells a lot about the motives of the Pharisees in the story. I review the history of the passage, which was not part of the Gospel of John in the early church. Verse 11 where Jesus tells the woman to "Go and sin no more" is used by Christians today to shame people and to hold sin over people's heads. But it doesn't make sense for Jesus to say this as admonishment rather than an act of mercy. There are many verses that show that God's mercy is not conditional on repentance. To use this verse as admonishment is essentially abusing the woman again. It is an act of evangelical cruelty. I explain why we must reframe the way this verse is used. Previous episode: S1 E19 Jan 24 2025 The Abused Woman in John 8:1-11Theories of why Jesus said Go and sin no more to the woman:Modern evangelical: Admonishment. He meant her individual sin had caused the situation and that the way to redemption is repentance and renouncing her sin. Doesn't fit the paralytic man story.Ancient contextual: Protection. He told her to stay away from the abuser (the unknown man) and the Pharisees, because they were using her. Does fit the paralytic man story.Textual Negotiation: Compromise. This verse was added to allow John 8:1-11 to be included in the canon. Church Fathers feared the story was too merciful and that adding the admonishment would be a clear rebuke of her sin. Classical slut shaming. This does not explain the paralytic man story.Community reconciliation: He told her to return to purity. Continuous and general admonition for all people in Christ. Makes sense for Jewish purity laws, but contextually weird because it is said only to the two most pathetic characters in the Gospels.   

Send us Fan MailIn this episode, we delve into the challenging questions surrounding free will and its role in inclusive Christianity. As an affirming Christian and PCUSA minister, I explore the intersection of modern science, theology, and spirituality, particularly how complex systems and uncertainty in physics offer new hope beyond determinism. We examine the surprising alignment between extreme Calvinist theology and reductionist scientific views, both of which challenge traditional ideas of free will. Drawing from notable works and recent physics discoveries, this discussion aims to deepen our understanding of Bible interpretation and spirituality within a modern Christian faith context. Join us as we seek a fresh perspective on free will that embraces complexity and affirms an inclusive Christianity.Resources:"The Truth Physics Can No Longer IgnoreThe fundamental nature of living things challenges assumptions that physicists have held for centuries."By Adam Frank, in The Atlantic, December 15, 2025Brian Greene, "Until the End of Time: Mind, Matter, and Our Search for Meaning in an Evolving Universe", 2020.Margaret Wheatley, " Who Do We Choose To Be?, Second Edition: Facing Reality, Claiming Leadership, Restoring Sanity", 2023. Wikipedia article on "Complex Systems": The 2021 Nobel Prize in Physics was awarded to Syukuro Manabe, Klaus Hasselmann, and Giorgio Parisi for their work to understand complex systems.

Send us Fan MailJoin me on the Real Bible Rob podcast as I welcome Pastor Bethany Nass Cseh, co-pastor of Arcata United Methodist Church and Catalyst Church Humboldt. In this episode, we dive into her inclusive and affirming approach to ministry that centers on a Jesus-centered faith. Pastor Bethany shares her unique storytelling style that brings the stories of Jesus to life in an accessible way, encouraging spiritual growth and deeper understanding through Bible interpretation. Additionally, she discusses her experiences as a foster and adoptive parent and the inspiration behind her books "Stepping Into Advent" and "Stepping Into Lent," which provide daily reflections driving spiritual reflection during key Christian seasons. Whether you're exploring inclusive Christianity or seeking insights into modern Christian faith and spirituality, this episode offers heartfelt perspectives and practical inspiration.

Send us Fan MailIn this episode, we dive deep into the critical examination of how scripture, specifically Romans 13:1-7 and Jeremiah 17:9-10, can be misread to support fascist ideology. Through an affirming Christianity lens, we challenge these interpretations while emphasizing inclusive Christianity and the importance of nuanced Bible interpretation in modern Christian faith. Drawing on insights from theologians like Bonhoeffer and Barth, and historical documents such as the Barmen Declaration, this discussion aims to empower listeners to engage thoughtfully with scripture. We also reference Jonathan Rauch's article "Yes, It's Fascism" to provide a contemporary context. Join us as we explore how the Bible supports spiritual growth and social justice, aligning with the mission of PCUSA ministry to foster open and affirming Christian communities.This is a follow up to my podcasts:Pastors and Fascism, Romans 13:1-7 & JeremiahS1E36, March 22, 2025War on Empathy, 2 Corinthians 1:3-7, Psalm 103:13S1E53, July 16, 2025Jonathan Rauch “Yes, It’s Fascism” The Atlantic, January 25, 2026

Send us Fan MailIn this episode, we explore the complex intersection of Christian Nationalism and military chaplaincy with Leigh Larson, a theologian and former USAF Reserve Chaplain Corps candidate. Leigh discusses how Christian Nationalism, often aligned with conservative evangelical theology, influences the military chaplaincy and the spiritual care available to service members. We examine the theological origins of this movement, its impact on ministry within the armed forces, and why this approach is neither truly Christian nor patriotic. As an advocate of inclusive Christianity and affirming Christianity, Leigh expands on the challenges faced by those seeking spiritual guidance in a context often shaped by exclusionary beliefs. Drawing on her Master's thesis and ongoing work, this episode also touches on modern Christian faith and the need for nuanced Bible interpretation to support a more inclusive and affirming spirituality. Tune in for a thoughtful and critical discussion relevant to PCUSA ministry, mainline Christianity and beyond.

Send us Fan MailIn this episode of Real Bible Rob, we explore one of the most contentious issues in Christianity: the doctrine of Original Sin and its evolution into Total Depravity within Protestant theology. As an affirming Christianity podcast, we challenge traditional views rooted in Roman Catholic dogma and examine how these ideas have influenced modern Christian faith and Bible interpretation, especially in reformed PCUSA ministry contexts. We discuss how Original Sin, originally a control mechanism, transformed through concepts like Imputed Sin in Calvinism, reflecting on its role at the heart of the Reformation. This episode aims to foster inclusive Christianity by proposing a shift from Original Sin to Original Grace and Original Blessing, encouraging spiritual growth and a more open understanding of scripture.Join us for an insightful conversation that blends history, theology, and spirituality, helping you navigate and possibly transcend these long-standing doctrines in pursuit of a more affirming and inclusive Christian belief system.

Send us Fan MailIn this episode, I sit down with Rev. Dawie De Koker, Senior Pastor at Aurora Community Church Nazarene, to explore what it means to embody affirming Christianity and the missional nature of the inclusive church. Drawing from his Wesleyan roots in predominantly Reformed cultures, we discuss how these theological traditions shape a modern Christian faith that embraces diversity and spiritual growth. As a PCUSA minister myself, I reflect on my personal connections to the Nazarene church and how these shared values influence our collective understanding of faith today. Join us as we delve into Bible interpretation and inclusive Christian spirituality that invites all to participate in God's mission, bridging traditions across South Africa, Germany, and Washington state.

Send us Fan MailAs veterans of the church culture wars, the Presbyterian Church (PCUSA ministry) has witnessed significant transformations over the past several decades. Despite some critics blaming the Church's 40% membership decline largely on its affirmation of LGBTQ people, this episode explores how deeper historic conservatism and slow adaptation are more accurate factors. We trace the ongoing journey of affirming Christianity and inclusive Christianity from 1998 to 2025, highlighting how modern Christian faith and innovative Bible interpretation play pivotal roles in the remaking of the church. The evolving PCUSA ministry serves as a vital window into the broader changes reshaping Christianity and culture today, emphasizing a renewed Christ-centered focus essential for the Church's future.#affirmingchurch #lgbtq #emergingchurch #edmonds #edmondspres #pcusaReference:"The Great Emergence" by Phyllis Tickle, 2012

Send us Fan MailIn this heartfelt and affirming year-end homily, based on Titus 2:11-14 and Isaiah, we explore themes central to affirming Christianity and the inclusive nature of God's salvation. As a PCUSA ministry, this sermon emphasizes that the love and salvation offered through Jesus Christ is meant for everyone — not just a select few. The birth of Christ as Emanuel, "God with Us," highlights the inclusive spirit of modern Christian faith and spirituality that embraces all people. Reflecting on a challenging year, this message brings comfort, hope, and reassurance that "You are enough and it will be OK." Join us as we discuss affirming, inclusive Christianity and how embracing this understanding can foster spiritual growth and healing in our communities.

Send us Fan MailIn this episode, we dive into Mary’s central but often misunderstood role in Christianity, exploring the themes of affirming Christianity and inclusive faith perspectives. While traditional views focus on Mary's purity, both Catholic and Protestant interpretations often miss the deeper significance of her story. Struggling with the dogma of the Virgin Birth, we discuss its historicity, theological implications, and how it has affected women over time. This Christmas episode reveals how Mary's story symbolizes a transfer of power, highlighting Joseph's obedience that prioritizes mercy over law. We also explore how Mary’s description as Parthenos connects to Greek mythology and what this means for modern Christian faith. Join us for a fresh, affirming interpretation that shows God's loving presence as Emmanuel through Mary and Jesus.#virginmary #parthenos #joseph #christmas #edmonds #edmondspres #pcusa

Send us Fan MailIn this insightful episode, I welcome my longtime friend and mentor, Rev. Jeff Sievert, a respected leader within the PCUSA ministry known for his commitment to inclusive Christianity and affirming worship practices. Having been my pastor and guide for 25 years, Jeff shares his extensive experience designing beautiful, liturgical worship services that resonate deeply in modern Christian faith communities.We discuss the ongoing evolution of worship, including the recent history of the worship wars and the rediscovery of liturgical traditions by younger generations seeking authentic and inclusive Christian experiences. Jeff offers valuable perspectives on how affirming Christianity can be expressed through worship and how the church can embrace diverse voices in Bible interpretation and practice.Join us as we explore the future of worship in an inclusive PCUSA ministry context and learn how to create worship services that are not only beautiful but deeply meaningful for all believers.#worship #liturgy #edmonds #edmondspres #pcusa

Send us Fan MailIn this episode, we explore the trajectory of the Emergent Church movement within modern Christian faith, examining its promises, challenges, and ongoing relevance. As an affirming Christianity and PCUSA ministry perspective, we discuss influential voices like Diana Butler Bass, Brian McLaren, and Phyllis Tickle, alongside the rise of patriarchal movements and the contrasting growth of inclusive Christian traditions such as the Eastern Orthodox and Episcopal churches. We reflect on the socio-political factors like Trumpism that have affected church dynamics and consider whether a truly inclusive and affirming emergent church can thrive in today's religious landscape. Join us as we navigate the complex intersections of Bible interpretation, modern faith, and the quest for an inclusive Christianity.#emergentchurch #liturgy #liturgicalchurch #edmonds #edmondspres #pcusaReference:"The Great Emergence: How Christianity is Changing and Why" by Phyllis Tickle, 2012.The Great ReformationThe Great EmergenceQuadrilateralLiturgists - Cath, EOSocial Justice Christians - PC, UMC, UCCRenewalists - CharismaticsConservatives - FundamentalistsOuter Ring - TraditionalistsNext Ring - Re-traditioningNext inner - ProgressivesInner Ring - Hyphenateds

Send us Fan MailAll major religions explore the concept of ego death, or transcendence, with Buddhism being a clear example. Within the context of affirming Christianity and inclusive Christian theology, this idea is foundational and deeply present in the writings of Christian mystics over centuries. In this episode, we delve into the concept of kenosis—the self-emptying nature of Christ as described in Philippians 2:7—and how it serves as the core of modern Christian faith and spirituality. We examine how the cross symbolizes this ego death, a message often obscured by the legacy of triumphalism and imperialism in American Christianity, including challenges faced within PCUSA ministry. Further, the episode contrasts Catholic and Protestant views on the cross and crucifix, enriching our understanding of scripture and spirituality in inclusive Christianity today.#cross #crucifix #kenosis #egodeath #apotheia #edmonds #edmondspres #pcusa

Send us Fan MailIn this episode, we deeply explore the challenges of systematic theology and the problematic aspects of Calvinism. As an advocate for affirming Christianity and inclusive Christian faith, I share my skepticism about traditional theology, especially how it can sometimes be used to control rather than uplift believers. Drawing on influential works like Richard Rohr's "The Universal Christ" and D. Stephen Long's "The Sovereignty of God Debate," this conversation critiques rigid biblical interpretations and advocates for a theological approach grounded in loving grace rather than authoritarianism. Whether you're questioning classical theology or seeking a more open and affirming Christianity, this episode offers honest reflection on modern Christian faith and the complexities of Bible interpretation. #systematictheology #calvinism #opentheology #processtheology #theology #edmonds #edmondspres #pcusa

Send us Fan MailExplore the importance of the temple in the biblical narrative and its impact on modern Christian faith in this episode of the Affirming Christianity Podcast. Discover how the temple's role shaped Judaism and how Jesus' prophetic words in Luke 21:5-8 reflect the spread of the Jesus movement beyond Jerusalem. As a Presbyterian USA minister committed to inclusive Christianity, we delve into how these themes challenge our views on orthodoxy, reform, and the spreading of the word. Join us for a thoughtful Bible interpretation that honors all voices within the faith and the ongoing journey of affirming Christianity today.#temple #oldtestament #newcovenant #edmonds #edmondspres #pcusa

Send us Fan MailAffirming Christianity invites us to explore the true meaning of love through the lens of 1 Corinthians 13:4-7. This episode unpacks how Bible interpretation of this key passage reveals the heart of an inclusive Christian spirituality that often contrasts with exclusive or manipulative understandings of love. We discuss the impact of gaslighting within the church and why this passage is pivotal for modern Christian faith and the affirmation of LGBTQ+ inclusion. Join us as we dive deep into understanding why love, central to both Scripture and affirming Christianity, is often misunderstood—and how embracing its full meaning can transform our ministry and personal spiritual growth.#love #lovenothate #lgbtq #inclusion #edmonds #edmondspres #pcusa

Send us Fan MailWelcome to the Real Bible Rob podcast. I am delighted to welcome Charmella today. She speaks on TikTok about American history, religion, race, and politics in such an insightful way. What really caught my attention was her realism about our moment coupled with a sense of optimism. With all the terrifying changes we are going through, how can we see any of this change as good? With old and young alike pining for days that never were, can we grasp what's really happening. It's reckoning. Charmella said something that blew my mind, "The only way out is through." The reckoning is uncomfortable, but it's necessary. We have been avoiding for too long and we need to change. I've quoted Charmella in several sermons and a few podcasts. So I really wanted to speak with her here. References:"People of the Lie: The Hope for Healing Human Evil" by M. Scott Peck, 1985"A Peoples History of the United States" by Howard Zinn, 1980"The Third Reconstruction" by Rev. Dr. William Barber, 2016"Shalom and the Community of Creation: An Indigenous Vision" by Dr. Randy Woodley, 2012#deconstruction #reconstruction #peopleshistory #journalism #edmonds #edmondspres #pcusa

Send us Fan MailI have been shocked at how Jesus has been used in recent years to cover hate. I recently said, "The Jesusing of Charlie Kirk is neither about Jesus nor Charlie Kirk." His assassination and raising him to be a martyr is completely genuine for some and completely cynical for most. And we know this by how Christian nationalists have latched on to him. The casual use of Christianity to hurt people who aren't Christians, or even Christians of a certain type is very old. But it is shocking to see how this old tool of ignorance is pulled out as a weapon all the time. So why are Christians so mean nowadays and so willing to toss aside the principles of Jesus for the principles of power? I offer three parallels which are at once comforting and frightening. One is the Second Great Awakening and the massive rise of spirituality of the era. It was both the source of great good and tremendous harm. And it was a movement primarily based on fear, especially of slave rebellion and war. The next one is the Cold War in which there are so many parallels. Author Tom Nichols recently asked, "What happened to the fear of the apocalypse of nuclear war? The weapons are still there." Finally, I will talk again about Rapture. The rapture narrative and its popularity even though it is not biblical tells us everything about which Jesus we are following. Tom Nichols article: https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2025/10/kathryn-bigelow-house-of-dynamite/684569/#charliekirk #martyr #heathercoxrichardson #jesus #pharisee #taxcollector #zacchaeus #christiannationalism #revival #edmonds #edmondspres #pcusa

Send us Fan MailThe "gospel of peace" in Ephesians 6:15: How can this sit in the midst of descriptions of weapons and warfare? This is the paradox of Spiritual Warfare. It is not against flesh and blood but it is against rulers and principalities. It is ideas over brute force. I go in and out of love for various scriptures. I spent years fighting against the terrible use of Ephesians 6, especially to support slavery, patriarchy and Christian Nationalism which are inextricably linked. But whenever this happens and I am compelled to do a deep dive into the scripture, I fall in love with it again. Ephesians 6 has done this for me once again. Submission of slaves in the household codes must be seen in the context of Spiritual Warfare. Slave uprisings were a huge fear in ancient Rome, with over 30% of the population being slaves. But insurrections always end bloody. Spiritual Warfare is akin to Civil Rights marches. Active, but non-violent. Good trouble as John Lewis said. The change in society that lasts. The warfare is for justice and peace, not with devils and end times. Paul spoke against the extinction of the movement. Recalls the temptation of Jesus for expediency and cheap grace. There is a lot of debate about the sword being an offensive or defensive weapon. Hebrews 4:12 may give us a clue.References:Sandra Glahn, "Nobody's Mother", 2023.Lynn Cohick, "Letter to the Ephesians (NICNT)", 2020.#spiritualwarfare #bible #sworddrills #civilrights #nonviolentresistance #resist #nokings #edmonds #edmondspres #pcusa

Send us Fan MailThe best antidote for a nightmare is to turn the lights on. When you screamed in the middle of the night, nothing was more comforting than mother coming in cradling you in her arms. We’ve been living with a 2400 year long nightmare of Satan and devils. It’s time to turn the lights on and dispel the myths that have propped up religious bullies for so long. Satan was a vague Hebrew word meaning Adversary but it didn’t take on a personality until it became The Satan in the Persian period and then happily lapped up by the New Testament writers with heavy Greek mythological influences. How did such a minor character in the Old Testament become a central character in the New Testament, especially in modern Christian churches? Is there evil in the world? Yes. Is there a hierarchy of evil beings tempting and tormenting you? No, they vanish when you flip the lights on. #satan #lucifer #devil #hell #edmonds #edmondspres #pcusa

Send us Fan MailThere's a common question among pastors: "What's the most unbiblical thing your congregation believes is biblical but isn't?" Some are quite funny, but I think the most harmful one is the Rapture. It is a theology developed by John Nelson Darby in 1833 based on a fundamental misunderstanding of the Greek word "harpazo." Modern dispensationalists (Darby's theology) claim harpazo proves the Rapture is true. I discuss the use of this word. I also discuss why Paul used the imagery of Jesus meeting people in the air in 1 Thessalonians 4:17. There is nothing that says this is about separating believers from non-believers, or the saved from the unsaved. That was entirely fabricated by mashing this verse with Matthew 24:40-41 and Revelation 20:4-6. I also discuss the great harm to civic life and the environment Rapture theology has done. It is the main source for Christian Zionism, anti-environmentalism, and anti-intellectualism in American evangelicalism. #rapture #harpazo #endtimes #saved #unsaved #edmonds #edmondspres #pcusa

Send us Fan MailEinstein famously said, "Everything should be made as simple as possible, but not simpler."  This is a topic I am comfortable with. Why? Because I studied Thermodynamics and Randomness in college and I have been pondering it ever since. If you know how these work in biology and nature, then you quickly realize that all the arguments of "Creation Science" are nonsense. Rather than debating point by point, which is pointless with creationists who are driven by ideology and not science, I discuss the scientific method and the faithful use of scripture. Someday we will find strong evidence of life on Mars or Europa or Enceladus and then we will be confronted with another milestone where human beings on Earth are not at the center of the universe. So discussing who God is and our relationship with faith must always face the reality of nature.Note: For my biochemistry friends, I did a pretty lousy job describing Gibbs energy. Please accept my apologies. #evolution #genesis #lifeonearth #originoflife #science #thermodynamics #edmonds #edmondspres #pcusa

Send us Fan MailOne way to tell how people approach religion is to express your admiration for another belief. I certainly admire Judaism, not just in the way of supersession like more Christians, but as a way of getting to know God. Over the years I have become much more aware of Islam and more recently Hinduism. But none of these impacted me like getting to know more about Buddhism, through great authors and discussion. I can confidently say that the Buddha saved my faith in Jesus. This may be offensive to you or at least incongruous. For me it hasn't been a passing fad in open-mindedness, but it has rooted deeply, because there is no conflict between Buddhist thought and Christianity. Buddhism is not a theistic faith. Of course there are Buddhist who are theistic, but it is not a requirement as it is in Christianity. In this episode, I discuss how I came to understand this, how it challenged me in a way I needed it to and how I found compatibility and peace. I have always been ecumenically minded, but my experience has opened my heart to a deeper appreciation for the sharing of faiths. References:Charlotte Joko Beck, "Nothing Special: Living Zen", 1993Pema Chödrön, "Comfortable with Uncertainty", 2003David Brazier, "The Feeling Buddha", 1997Thich Nhat Hanh, "Living Buddha, Living Christ", 1995#buddhism #christianity #zen #ecumenism #edmonds #edmondspres #pcusa

Send us Fan MailI'm excited to welcome Rev. Rebecca Craig to the Real Bible Rob podcast today! Rebecca is a pastor in the Evangelical Lutheran Church in America, an Artist, and an Author. She has a terrific new book called "Through Her Eyes" telling the stories of women in the Bible in a creative new way. It gives a narrative of 26 different women from their perspective and then several insightful study questions for each. It's a fascinating approach to understanding their stories. Reference:"Through Her Eyes: Biblical Women Speak" by Rebecca J. Craig, 2025."Once Upon a Nightmare: Through the looking glass of narcissistic abuse" by Rebecca J. Craig, 2024."Womanist Midrash, Vols 1 & 2" by Dr. Wilda C. Gafney, 2017 & 2024."The Prophetic Imagination" by Walter Brueggemann, 2nd Ed. 2001#womeninministry #womenpastor #biblicalwomen #elca #edmonds #edmondspres #pcusa

Send us Fan MailMy New Testament professor Dr. Nijay Gupta has written much about Galatians and is endlessly fascinated by Paul's letter. I didn't exactly understand why this angry letter was so important. Like many Christians, I usually favored Ephesians and Philippians, maybe Timothy, but Galatians? Why? It is pivotal as an early window into the first major crisis in the early church in which Paul had to intervene: the relationship between Jewish and Gentile Christians. My friend Rev. Adina Meyer just finished a series of sermons on Galatians, so she is the perfect person to discuss our changing views of the letter and why it is so important.References: Nijay K. Gupta, "Galatians - The Story of God Commentary", 2023.Scot McKnight, "James and Galatians - New Testament Everyday Bible Study", 2022.Brigette Kahl,  "Galatians Re-Imagined", 2010J Louis Martyn, "Galatians - The Anchor Bible series", 1997

Send us Fan MailSomething’s seriously wrong with America and we all know it. What was the long path toward equality of men and women, of the races in civil rights, of religious people integrating progress into theology has faced ever-increasing headwinds. In many ways we can rejoice especially when we remember how women and minorities were treated in the 1960s and 1970s. I’ve spoken about the rise of the religious right during the late 70s and on into the Reagan era. Much of that was overt but they were operating on two levels and the groundwork was quietly being laid for the backlash we see now. It’s really coming out now in all the talk about James Dobson and John MacArthur, who recently passed away. But the dark under-belly of Doug Wilson and John Piper haven't yet received enough attention. The war on women’s rights and the subversive war on history especially the retelling of slavery and genocide have yet to be told enough. The “war on woke” and DEI are really about wrestling Christianity back to the dark-ages. The church must oppose it if it is to survive. As a favorite tiktoker of mine @ohmellyeah says “the only way is through, not around.” This is a cause for optimism. * Pamela Brown inverviewed Douglas Wilson on CNN in which he said “Women are people who people come out of.”#jamesdobson #douglaswilson #johnmacarthur #johnpiper #paulwasher #fundamentalism #slavery #christiannationalism #edmonds #edmondspres #pcusa

Send us Fan MailLet's talk about 17th century England. Why? Because so much about American Protestant beliefs and culture come from it. The King James Bible was a political stake in the ground. The Westminster Confession was an Act of Parliament during the English Civil War. It was a compromise between Anglicans and Presbyterians to oppose radical Puritans and Catholics. The 1689 Second London Confession legitimized the Baptists as a result of the Act of Toleration passed by Parliament as part of the Glorious Revolution. The creation of these documents was incredibly political. It harkens back to the creation of the Nicene Creed, the Council of Chalcedon, and the formation of the biblical canon in the early church. I discuss why people still look at these periods with rose-colored glasses, and how the propaganda of those times still deeply affects us today. I won't call it a sham, but there's lots of power politics and chicanery in Christian history. It was always there, and it is still here. There was never a purer period in the history of the church than today. I made an error about the Three Forms of Unity: They are the Heidelberg Catechism (1563), Belgic Confession (1561), and the Canons of Dort (1618-1619). These are the basic documents for the Dutch Reformed Church. These informed the creation of the Westminster Confession of Faith (1646-1649).#christianhistory #KingJamesBible #KJV #WesterminsterConfession #WestminsterStandards #EnglishCivilWar #1689Confession #GloriousRevolution #Theology #edmonds #edmondspres #pcusa

Send us Fan MailDoes God express emotions? This is a more central question than it seems. It’s a significant clue to how you see the sovereignty of God, whether God changes, and whether God is affected by prayer. If God shows the emotion of regret, does that mean God is weak? To illustrate these differences, I do a deep dive into two verses that feature the Hebrew word Neecham. The theological bias of Bible translations are revealed in what words are used for Neecham: repent, relent, regret, feel sorrow, grieve, have compassion or comfort. I review the implications of these in two different passages. #ESV #NRSV #bible #calvinism #hebrew #edmondspres #pcusaJeremiah 42:10ESV If you will remain in this land, then I will build you up and not pull you down; I will plant you, and not pluck you up; for I relent of the disaster that I did to you.NRSVue If you will only remain in this land, then I will build you up and not pull you down; I will plant you and not pluck you up, for I am sorry for the disaster that I have brought upon you.RSV If you will remain in this land, then I will build you up and not pull you down; I will plant you, and not pluck you up; for I repent of the evil which I did to you.