PODCAST · science
Safe As Podcast
by Ben Hutchinson
A podcast dedicated to the thrifty analysis of safety science, risk, systems, and performance research. Jump onto SafetyInsights.Org for more research.Intro/Output "Dark Synth Wave" by ElephantGreen (PixaBay.com)
Episodes
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108: Professor Robin Dillon-Merrill Part 2: Resilient Vs Vulnerable Near misses
Can AI help us identify critical safety blind-spots before disaster?Part 2 interview with Professor Robin Dillon-Merrill (Georgetown University, McDonough School of Business), who unpacks her 20+ years of research on decision-making under risk, outcome bias, and how organizations misinterpret…
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E107: Skip-Order-Action Framework: Measuring Work-As-Done in the Field (HOP / Safety-II)
Today we unpack a study tracking 1,422 procedural steps across 40 petrochemical operations. Using their Skip-Order-Action (SOA) Framework, they explored how frontline personnel navigate written instructions in practice: revealing that roughly 1/3 of steps depart from prescribed methods even when...
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E106: Boeing 737 MAX Disaster: When High-Authority Systems Go "Strong, Silent, and Wrong"
What happens when a high-authority automated system operate with an incorrect model of reality?This question is explored via Dekker & Woods’ (2024) article on automated systems that are Strong, Silent, and Wrong.We explore the breakdown of human-automation coordination, mode confusion, and...
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E105: Does Fatigue Cause Attentional Blindness? (Quickisode)
Can fatigue cause visual blindness in plant operators and drivers?In this video, I review a 2019 study from Li et al. (Automation in Construction) who used wearable eye-tracking tech to measure how prolonged excavator operation / time-on-task fatigue impacts hazard detection and visual...
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E104: Professor Robin Dillon-Merrill Part 1: Near Misses & Confusing Luck with Resilience
Do we routinely mistake good luck with systemic resilience – until something blows up? Today I speak with Professor Robin Dillon-Merrill (Georgetown University, McDonough School of Business), who breaks down her 20+ years of research on decision-making under risk, outcome bias, and how...
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E103: Does HOP Actually Work? Real Data From a 5-Year Study (Quickisode)
Does a Human & Organizational Performance (HOP) initiative improve learning and the quality of actions? And what happens when the initiative stops?This quickisode unpacks Christopher Mastrangelo’s 2026 Master’s thesis examining a multi-year HOP implementation at a large biopharmaceutical company....
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E102: Writing Better Safety Procedures Part 2: Rules vs Reality, WAI/WAD, Safety-II & Workarounds
In a 5-year petrochemical study examining over 1,400 work steps, 1/3 were performed differently from what was written in the procedure, but every task was completed successfully.Is this non-compliance or a display of worker aptitude and resilient skill? In Part 2 of our series on procedures, we...
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E101: From Blame to Restorative Justice: A Just Culture Tool (HOP / Safety-II / New View)
Do traditional approaches unintentionally blame front-line workers instead of fixing broken organisational systems?This Quickisode unpacks how an international energy company redesigned its Just Culture (JC) framework to shift focus from individual culpability to systemic weaknesses.This company...
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E100: Dr Linda Bellamy Part 2: Fatal vs Minor hazards, SIFs & Barrier Failures
Part 2 discussion with Dr Linda Bellamy on SIFs, fatal accidents, and barrier failures. Resources & Links:Website & Articles: https://safetyinsights.orgSupport the channel: https://buymeacoffee.com/benhutchinson
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E99: 25 Questions for Better Incident Investigations | Safety-II / HOP
Do your investigations often conclude when you've identified 'human error', or a pesky person not following rules?Do you want to improve the quality and depth of your learning opportunities?One way is via local rationality: understanding why decisions & actions made sense to people at the time....
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E98: Writing better procedures part 1: Action verbs, human factors & more
Why are so many procedures technically accurate, but barely workable in practice?In Part 1 of this two part series on procedural systems, we unpack the technical side of writing better, more useable procedures: exploring how to reduce safety clutter, choosing the right type of rule, and structure...
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E97: Investigating when 'Nothing' Failed: a Safety-II/HOP debrief tool (Quickisode)
This quickisode races through a Safety-II / HOP inspired debrief tool which can help unearth 'hidden' insights about work that doesn't rely on incidents for learning.Resources & Links:Website & Articles: https://safetyinsights.orgSupport the channel: https://buymeacoffee.com/benhutchinson
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E96: Dr Linda Bellamy Part 1: Fatal vs Minor hazards, SIFs & Barrier Failures
Is there a relationship between fatal and minor hazard exposures? Recent SIF research & movements suggest 'NO' - what kills people aren't the same as what hurts them. But is that scientifically accurate? Part 1 discussion with Dr Linda Bellamy, who undertook perhaps the largest study of this kind...
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E95: Critical Controls & Barriers - Part 4: What do barrier models leave out? A Safety-II critique
A bowtie or critical control register may be useful tools, but they aren't the work.In Part 4 of this series, I unpack what control / barrier models can leave out: e.g. changing conditions, competing goals, control dependencies, unintended consequences and the adaptations people make to keep work...
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E94: Dr Marcin Nazaruk Part 2: HOP, New View, Learning from Daily Work
Today I interview Dr Marcin Nazaruk, who shares his practical experience and research on learning from normal work / daily work, HOP / New View / Safety-II, to improve learning and risk management.The discussion also explores themes around risk controls, work constraints, risk assessments, and...
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E93: Critical Controls & Barriers & Safeguard | Part 3: Human Factors & Human Performance
How do we set realistic and effective human performance expectations in our barrier approaches?In part 1 we looked at definitions of controls and barriers, whereas in part 2 we explored a deeper dive into their applications and escalation factors.This episode unpacks a few key sources to explore...
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E92: Dr Marcin Nazaruk Part 1: HOP, New View, Learning from Daily Work
Today I interview Dr Marcin Nazaruk, who shares his practical experience and research on learning from normal work / daily work, HOP / New View / Safety-II, to improve learning and risk management.The discussion also explores themes around risk controls, work constraints, risk assessments, and...
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E91: Critical Controls & Barriers & Safeguards | Part 2: From paper to practice (e.g. bow-ties & more)
How do we translate a paper barrier system into one that's functional and verified as effective?Whereas part 1 looked at key definitions of control, barrier, safeguard, support, and verification activity - this episode dives deeper into the use of such frameworks.In particular, we unpack…
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E90: Dr Guido Carim Jr Part 2
Part 2 of our interview with Dr. Guido Carim Junior, Associate Professor of Aviation, pilot, researcher, and safety scientist. We pick up the conversation with digital checklists, examining the potential role of AI and how "smart" features risk narrowing human decision-making rather than…
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E89: Critical Controls, Barriers & Safeguards | Part 1: Definitions & Inconsistencies
Is that a control, barrier, safeguard, support, or verification activity? Is it an object, a human act, a system or just a procedure? Does it actually address the hazardous energy, or does it sound good on paper?If we label every single checklist and administrative task a "critical control," do…
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E88: Dr Guido Carim Jr Part 1
Interview with Guido part 1
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E87: Risk Management vs. Rule Compliance: The False Choice
When you're standing on the front line making an operational call, risk doesn't come with a green or red light. You have to make a binary decision: stop or go.We don't necessarily make it easy for our decision-makers to make good, defendable decisions.This video unpacks Andrew Hopkins’ 2011…
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E86: CEO speeches: Talking Our Way to Disaster #DeepWaterHorizon #BP
On April 15, 2010, BP CEO Tony Hayward reassured shareholders that the company was safer and more efficient than ever. Five days later, the Deepwater Horizon disaster happened. This video unpacks a study that evaluated CEO speeches and how rhetoric and slogans can be disconnected with actual...
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E85:When Success Leads to Disaster: Practical Drift & the 1994 Black Hawk Friendly Fire Shootdown
In 1994, two US Air force F15 fighters shot down two friendly US Army Black Hawk helicopters.This event shouldn't have been possible: there were experts, radio communications, radar, AWACS and more.However, this isn't a tragedy due to human error or a lack of safeguards, it happened in spite of…
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E84: The pitfalls of safety reporting metrics and 'safewashing' our way to disaster
Can our safety reporting and indicators mask signals that organizations are drifting to major accident?This episode unpacks two reports from O'Neill and colleagues looking at the pitfalls of safety reporting measures, and also explores weaknesses in annual safety reports - particularly how…
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E83: Why Smart Managers Ignore Deadly Warning Signs: Gretley & Moura Mine Disasters
This ep unpacks two articles from Andrew Hopkins, exploring the similarities between the Gretley and Moura mine disasters.Namely, Hopkins argues that a 'culture of denial' existed at both mines, and probably exists across large, high-risk organisations, too. This culture of denial involved a…
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E82: Why Good Leaders Make Terrible Decisions (The Science of Bias)
Our mental shortcuts (heuristics) serve us well. They help us navigate a complex, ambiguous world normally safely and efficiently. But in modern organisations, they can sometimes lead us astray - via biases. In this context biases are systematic distortions away from an expected decision or...
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E81: Is Safety Culture a Failed or Useful Concept for Organizations? A review of the Scientific Research
Is 'Safety Culture' a nebulous construct, or even a myth, that obscures more than it reveals? Or is its persistence because it provides a useful vehicle for explaining phenomena in organisations and groups? This episode unpacks several articles (at least 10), from authors like Borys, Guldenmund,...
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E80: Is Your Boss Just "Peacocking"? The Science of Leader Walkarounds
Leadership walkarounds seem simple on paper: get a leader to walk around, talk with some people, and then bounce out with a gleeful smile, and warm hearts.But is it that simple? Do walkarounds improve any measures of teams or organisations? Do they improve safety climate, engagement, or even…
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E79: AI Makes you Smarter but not Wiser: How AI affects your Cognition
Does using AI make us smarter, or just more confident?This ep covers a recent study on how generative AI affects our "metacognition" - our ability to judge our own performance. Researchers tracked hundreds of people solving logical reasoning problems with and without AI.They found: a) AI improved...
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E78: The most effective safety tactics according to science
There are a lot of safety practices in industry. How do we know which are the most effective interventions to use?This systematic review of the evidence assesses the best evidence to answer this question. More research at SafetyInsights.Org Intro/Output "Dark Synth Wave" by ElephantGreen...
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E77: Behavior-based safety (BBS) - a balanced review of the science
When I say BBS - what is your initial impression? A big smile and thumbs up, or visible disgust?It certainly divides people. But is that division deserved? What does the evidence say are both the pros and cons of BBS approaches?And, how can we move forward with this debate and incorporate the…
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E76: Dreamworld disaster and the pathways to failure
This episode unpacks the Dreamworld Thunder Rapid ride disaster, using the Ten Pathways to Failure model. Ref: Gregson, S., & Quinlan, M. G. (2024). Death at Dreamworld: Ten pathways to disaster and failure to learn. The Economic and Labour Relations Review, 35(2), 436-453. Support the channel…
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E75: Better indicators for your risk control system
How can you develop better indicators targeting the effectiveness of your risk control system?This episode draws on a few sources, including the HSE UK's HSG254 and the ICMM's critical control framework, among others, outlining an approach to safety indicators that targets measuring the most...
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E74: Zombie leadership - old ideas that refuse to die
Re-recording of an older episode for YouTube
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E73: When business indicators become the problem
Does counting change what counts? If we create indicators on actions that we'd like to monitor, like injuries, profits, tendering, productivity, do we inadvertently focus on managing the numbers instead of the core issues?Source: Chang, L. W., Kirgios, E. L., Mullainathan, S., & Milkman, K. L....
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E72: Fatal Blind Spot: Why Leader Safety Walkarounds Failed Deepwater Horizon
Seven hours before the Deepwater Horizon rig exploded, four senior executives were on-site congratulating the crew for achieving seven years without a lost-time injury. It wasn’t that these leaders ignored risk; it’s that they were systematically blinded to it by a focus on the 'wrong' metrics.…
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E71: Leaders, schmeaders...the age of FOLLOWERSHIP is here
Leadership captures the headlines and conference topics worldwide, but what is the role of followers in team and organisational performance? How can one lead, without those that follow? Refs: 1. Leung, C., Lucas, A., Brindley, P., Anderson, S., Park, J., Vergis, A., & Gillman, L. M. (2018)....
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E70: Learning Teams: Why Blaming Staff Doesn't Make Workplaces Safer
How well do Learning Teams compare to RCAs for the number and quality of findings? This study compares the two. Note: Update and reupload of a previous episode, now in video format. Ref: Robbins, T., Tipper, S., King, J., Ramachandran, S. K., Pandit, J. J., & Pandit, M. (2021). Evaluation of...
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E69: Precursors of SIFS & ineffective corrective actions
What are the precursor factors that kill people at work? And are our investigations effectively fixing these factors? Ref: Stockel, L. R. (2023). What Causes Accidents at Work? Workplace Serious Incident & Fatality Investigations: A Study of Precursors. More research at SafetyInsights.Org...
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E68: Do warning signs work? A dive into the science
You saw the sign, and read the words. So, apparently you understand the risk, or do you?Source: Hancock, P. A., Kaplan, A. D., MacArthur, K. R., & Szalma, J. L. (2020). How effective are warnings? A meta-analysis. Safety Science, 130, 104876.Support the channel at:...
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E67: Designing safer and healthier shift work systems/rosters
How can we design better - as in safer, healthier, more productive shift work systems and rosters? Let's find out. Sources: QGN 16. Guidance Note for Fatigue Risk Management. Department of Natural Resources, Mines and Energy Knauth, P. (1996). Designing better shift systems. Applied ergonomics,...
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E66: Is AI BS'ing you?
Are AI models BS'ing you? Do they have such an indifference--a lack of understanding even--about the truth, that their outputs constitute BS? Note: This is an update and recording of #33, where I rerecord interesting topics for my YouTube channel. Source: Hicks, M. T., Humphries, J., & Slater, J....
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E65: The use and abuse of safety indicators
Safety indicators, metrics, measures, KPIs...whatever. Are these indicators used primarily for genuine learning and improvement - or more often misinterpreted and misused?Ref: Oswald, D., Zhang, R. P., Lingard, H., Pirzadeh, P., & Le, T. (2018). The use and abuse of safety indicators in...
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E64: How can we move forward from notions of 'human error'?
This paper explores how complex systems not only fail, but succeed, and provides 9 ways that we can move beyond simplistic notions of system failure due to 'human error'. Ref: Woods, D. D., & Cook, R. I. (2002). Nine steps to move forward from error. Cognition, technology & work, 4(2), 137-144....
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E63: Should we, or even can we, analyse 'safety culture' in investigations?
'Safety Culture' is treated by some as the holy grail of organisational safety concepts: valourised and promoted uncritically. But should we, or even can we, analyse 'safety culture' in investigations? More research at SafetyInsights.Org Intro/Output "Dark Synth Wave" by ElephantGreen…
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E62: Types of error - error as cause, event, or harm
What do we mean when we say 'human error'? Do you mean as a cause, event, or harm? And does error language more broadly mask more underpinning human variability, and increase the risk of blame? Sources: 1. Hollnagel, E. (2007). Human error: Trick or treat. Handbook of applied cognition, 219-238.…
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E61: Another deep dive on human performance in barrier systems
How should we plan, design and integrate human performance into our risk control and barrier systems? This episode draws on four sources: Mantom, M., Johnson, M., Pitblado, R., Cowley, C., & Krishna, K. (2017). Standardisation of Bow Tie Methodology and Terminology via a CCPS/EI Book. In Chem.…
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E60: Psychology of risk and motivating less risky decisions
How can we motivate--or even design for--more desirable, safer decisions on health, safety and life, and disincentivise riskier decisions? This episodes explores Gerald Wilde's four tactics of motivating safer behaviour, from his book 'Target Risk 3'. More research at SafetyInsights.Org...
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E59: Predictors of the use of higher-order risk controls
What factors predict the use of higher-order risk controls? This study unpacks the predictors via use of HECA (High-Energy Control Assessment). Source: Oguz Erkal, E. D., Hallowell, M. R., Ghriss, A., & Bhandari, S. (2024). Predicting serious injury and fatality exposure using machine learning in...
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Frequently Asked Questions
How many episodes does Safe As Podcast have?
Safe As Podcast currently has 107 episodes available on PodParley. New episodes are automatically indexed when they're published to the podcast feed.
What is Safe As Podcast about?
A podcast dedicated to the thrifty analysis of safety science, risk, systems, and performance research. Jump onto SafetyInsights.Org for more research.Intro/Output "Dark Synth Wave" by ElephantGreen (PixaBay.com)
How often does Safe As Podcast release new episodes?
Safe As Podcast publishes regularly with 107 episodes available. Check the episode list for the typical release schedule.
Where can I listen to Safe As Podcast?
You can listen to Safe As Podcast on PodParley by clicking any episode. We provide an embedded audio player for direct listening, and you can also subscribe via your preferred podcast app using the RSS feed.
Who hosts Safe As Podcast?
Safe As Podcast is created and hosted by Ben Hutchinson.
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