Some of my Best Work with Eric Hoke

Takeaways:Say less, carry more weight: Restraint > Expressiveness. Speaking selectively makes your input more valuable. This is a learned skill for pastors transitioning to the marketplace.Transitions cost you your identity (at first) - Leaving ministry isn’t just a job change—it’s a loss of role, clarity, and belonging. You need to rebuild from scratch, but life does stabilize.When church systems ignore real life, people don’t lack commitment; they lack time and alignment. Work, family, and growth are part of formation, not distractions.Connect with Zach Monroe on Substack. This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit erichoke.substack.com

Are you a pastor or ministry leader who wants to transition into the marketplace in 2026? Schedule a free call below. Our team would love to meet you. Purpose in Work Often Emerges Through Seasons, Not Immediate Clarity: Many people expect to find a “perfect job” that fulfills their purpose immediately, but meaningful careers often develop through different seasons of work. Some jobs are focused on paying bills, others on learning skills, and others on leadership growth. Each stage serves a purpose in shaping experience and character. Recognizing the season you’re currently in can reduce frustration and help you see how present work contributes to future calling. High Achievers Must Guard Their Identity from Being Tied to Performance: As Enneagram “Type 3” achievers, people driven to make an impact often derive their identity from accomplishments. While ambition helps turn vision into reality, the shadow side is overworking, burnout, and seeking approval from others. A healthier approach is to remember that your value exists before achievements, titles, or success, and to protect rhythms like rest and Sabbath to maintain alignment with deeper purpose. Entrepreneurship Is Often Lonely & Community Is Essential: Entrepreneurship frequently involves uncertainty, isolation, and carrying a vision others may not fully understand. One of the biggest mistakes founders make is trying to build everything alone. Instead of immediately searching for a better strategy, entrepreneurs may need to find community, partners, or cohorts who understand the journey and provide perspective and encouragement.You can connect with Dr. Jen on her Website or her Substack. This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit erichoke.substack.com

IHelpPastorsGetJobs.com helps ministry leaders market themselves for corporate jobs. Download our free PDF to learn more. Episode Takeaways1. Mobilization Comes Before MultiplicationThe church often focuses on growth and scaling, but Jesus focused first on forming people. If there’s a multiplication problem, there’s usually a mobilization problem underneath it.2. Jesus Followed a Three-Phase RhythmYear one was about time and relationships. Year two focused on teaching and observation. Year three shifted to tactics—sending them out and activating them.3. Discipleship Is Not the Same as Disciple MakingDiscipleship often centers on believers and weekly study. Disciplemaking starts with unbelievers and happens through everyday life and mission.4. Activation Requires ActionTeaching informs and time transforms, but tactics activate. People don’t fully mature until they are sent and given responsibility.5. Build Multipliers, Not Just MinistriesInstead of building bigger congregations, invest deeply in a few people. If you intentionally reproduce yourself into 12 others, growth becomes organic rather than manufactured.You can purchase Peyon’s Book at DiscipologyBook.com. This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit erichoke.substack.com

Crisis Can Clarify Calling - Steve didn’t choose entrepreneurship — it chose him after he was fired 12 days after his daughter was born. Instead of reacting in panic, he took time to grieve and process the shock. That space allowed him to move from disruption into direction.Rejection Is a Core Entrepreneurial Skill - Steve emphasizes that entrepreneurs hear “no” constantly — and must learn to recover quickly. A verbal yes means nothing; only signed contracts and deposits matter. The advantage isn’t avoiding rejection, it’s developing the emotional endurance to keep moving.Faith Shows Up Through Consistency, Not Branding - Steve integrates his faith into his work through integrity, fairness, and intentional leadership, not overt marketing. He doesn’t weaponize belief, but he doesn’t hide it either. His conviction shows up more in character than in slogans.Organizations Avoid Urgency Around People Problems - Many companies delay addressing people issues until they become financially painful. In his view, people are the only real competitive advantage, yet they’re often the last to be prioritized for investment.You can connect with Steve on LinkedIn. Kingdom Focused Summit is on April 23rd in Lancaster, PA - Order your Tickets HERE. This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit erichoke.substack.com

Are you a pastor or ministry leader who wants to transition into the marketplace in 2026? Schedule a free call below. Our team would love to meet you. The 2026 Job Market Is Slower and More Relational: The post-COVID hiring surge is over. Fewer companies are hiring, fewer people are leaving, and trust levels are lower, which means networking and relational pathways matter more than polished resumes alone.Transparency Inside Your Church May Be the First Move: Before updating your LinkedIn, consider having honest conversations with your board or elders. Many pastors assume resistance, but flexibility around workload, compensation, or bi-vocational models is often more possible than expected Remote Work Is Harder to Land: Remote roles have dropped significantly since 2022, and competition is national instead of local. Hybrid or in-person roles often create faster traction and allow you to build relational equity before negotiating flexibility.Marketplace Doesn’t Mean Ministry Is Over: Leaving full-time pastoring isn’t abandoning your calling. Many former pastors discover deeper one-on-one ministry opportunities in corporate environments where people are hungry for a trusted, steady presence.Fear of Forced Exit Is Often Worse Than Reality: Termination, resignation, or career disruption can feel catastrophic, but they’re survivable. With boundaries, negotiation, and wise counsel, even worst-case scenarios can become short-term storms rather than life-defining disasters This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit erichoke.substack.com

Thank you for engaging with me over the last 31 episodes of this podcast, and thank you to all of my guests. I look forward to seeing you on the podcast in March.My big focus this winter: Hiring a Director of Operations for I Help Pastors Get Jobs. Skills required: Customer Success. Sales. Career Services. Occasional Pastoral Counseling.This remote position is flexible and requires 5-10 hours of work per week. Commission-based. Perfect for the Entrepreneur-Curious person who wants to learn the ins and outs of the professional coaching space. You must be organized, good with pastors (and their spouses), and capable of managing relationships with ministers who are simultaneously in vocational crisis and confused about LinkedIn settings.I provide training and mentorship, and you receive 75% of all new business you bring in. This is a perfect turnkey operation for someone who wants to build something without stressing about the backend work. If you know someone who might be a good fit, please send them my way, and I’ll pay you $500 after a successful 90-day onboarding period. This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit erichoke.substack.com

Episode TakeawaysThe Institutional Church Model Is Breaking Down and That’s a Holy Opportunity - Mid-20th-century church structures are collapsing under their own weight: aging congregations, shrinking budgets, exhausted clergy, and dwindling attendance. However, rather than lamenting this shift, it presents a spiritual opportunity to rediscover authentic ministry beyond denominational constraints. ‘Cage-Free Ministry’ Means Redefining Both Calling and Compensation - Instead of full-time, part-time, or quarter-time positions that still demand total availability, she models task-based contracts and entrepreneurial ministry. Ministers should develop a clear “business model for calling,” knowing who they serve, what transformation they offer, and how that sustains them financially. Substack Seminary, she’s launching, helps pastors map this out across four stages: Get Unstuck, Build the Structure, Bring Church to People, and Collaborate through Technology.The Future Church Is Agile, Networked, and Collaborative — Not Hierarchical - Imagine a future where ministry resembles an ecosystem more than an institution. Clergy and lay leaders become collaborators in networks of shared projects such as podcasts, retreats, digital gatherings, neighborhood worship, and spiritual direction, rather than employees of rigid systems. You can find Cathie on Substack. This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit erichoke.substack.com

Episode TakeawaysCareer pivots require both clarity and courage: Rodney’s journey, from Marine Corps officer to Goldman Sachs executive to church leader, illustrates that career transitions are often guided by both discernment and divine disruption. When he was laid off from Goldman, he realized it was something God did for him, not to him. The courage to pause instead of rushing into another high-paying job allowed him to discover work aligned with his calling.Faith-driven decision-making brings purpose through provision: During his post-Goldman season of uncertainty, Rodney and his wife chose to rely on “daily bread faith,” trusting God to provide for them. This period strengthened their dependence on God and clarified that clarity comes through obedience, not comfort. He described this as the Lord’s process of forming character more than achieving career success.Anointing reveals your lane, and peace follows clarity: Rodney shared that once he entered ministry, he experienced a sense of spiritual anointing; the things that used to feel hard suddenly became clear and natural. He realized that operating in one’s anointing feels like effortless clarity, while stepping outside of it brings fog and friction. Culture starts before the paycheck: Rodney described how he now meets with every new church staff member over lunch to set expectations. He emphasizes that ministry is both an organism and an organization, spiritual and operational. By naming tensions early (“you’ll make more copies than you’ll preach”), he reduces the likelihood of disillusionment. Healthy culture and accountability sustain ministry impact: Rodney reframed performance management in the church as both spiritual formation and organizational clarity. He introduced a “Cultural Alignment Plan” alongside traditional performance plans to address relational or attitudinal issues. His conviction: culture is where the Holy Spirit moves—and where the enemy moves. Leaders must intentionally guard against it because one unhealthy staff member can drag down the entire mission.You can follow Rodney on Substack at Field Manual for Church Leaders. This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit erichoke.substack.com

Episode TakeawaysSame Skills, New Arena - Phil shared how his career didn’t pivot, but he translated 15 years of ministry leadership into executive coaching. The CEO Trifecta - Every senior leader battles the same three: Direction. Decisions. Distraction.The Four Phases of Change: Every transition runs the cycle: Entry → Evaluation → Discernment → Direction.Lead from Wholeness - Detach from the role, stay grounded in faith and family, and lead with empathy. You can e-mail Phil at [email protected] or visit his company’s webpage at Cornerstone Coaching. This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit erichoke.substack.com

Episode Takeaways:* Slow is smooth, smooth is fast — Sustainable pace and preparation produce excellence. Leaders need deliberate rhythms, not frantic motion.* Build a rule of life (or rhythm) — Anchor your spiritual, emotional, relational, and physical health with consistent routines rather than reacting to chaos.* Relational health requires intentionality — Introverted or task-oriented leaders must proactively schedule connections to avoid isolation and burnout.* Emotional awareness drives healthy leadership — Unprocessed emotions leak into relationships; reflecting on your past and attachments builds maturity.* Retreat to advance — Step away for silence and solitude. The world won’t collapse if you rest; your inner world will collapse if you don’t.Follow Greg on Substack or his website. This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit erichoke.substack.com

Episode TakeawaysOvereating and Emotional Coping - Both you and Jon opened up about food as a coping mechanism for leadership stress and emotional exhaustion. Overeating has become an “acceptable vice” in ministry culture, one that masks deeper wounds like fear of rejection or unmet emotional needs. Physical Health and Leadership Credibility - Physical discipline impacts credibility and self-perception. Caring for your body is not cosmetic; it’s a reflection of stewardship.Identity Beyond the Job Title - Jon admitted that leaving pastoral ministry after 17 years triggered a crisis: “Who am I without the title?” His recovery involved rediscovering identity in lasting roles, husband, father, and child of God, rather than transient ones like “Pastor John” or “Firefighter John.”Faith Renewal After Ministry - How can faith deepen after leaving professional ministry? Without the pressure to “perform spirituality,” he began relating to God personally rather than transactionally. Action Over Indecision - For leaders stuck in “waiting on God’s will,” Jon reframed the question: stop worrying about walking in the will of God, start walking in the ways of God. When your actions align with His character, the path unfolds naturally. Connect with Jon on Facebook This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit erichoke.substack.com

Episode TakeawaysThe worst decision is indecision. Waiting for perfect clarity is paralyzing. Sometimes you just have to take a step of faith, even without all the answers.Certainty is rare, so embrace seasons. In life and career, there’s no 100% certainty (outside of “death and taxes”), so the better posture is committing to things for a season—six months, a year—rather than forever.Faith and courage matter more than perfection. Fear and “analysis paralysis” can keep people stuck, but he encouraged listeners to take action, even if it doesn’t look exactly as imagined, trusting God to guide them along the way.Community and confirmation guide calling. Randy described how God often confirmed major decisions through people around him, especially his wife, underscoring the importance of relationships and wise counsel in career and life pivots.Identity isn’t tied to one role: Across military, ministry, and corporate pivots, Randy’s story highlighted that identity is rooted deeper than a job title, and that reinvention requires resilience and humility, not certainty.You can find Randy on LinkedIn. This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit erichoke.substack.com

My new book, The Incongruent Professional, is live! 99 Cent Kindle ends today 10/2/25!Episode TakeawaysFrom Pastor to CCO – Kelly went from leading an international church in Paris to becoming Chief Communications Officer at a global investment firm.Leadership Lessons – Empowering young leaders early matters, and how “train and release” creates resilient talent.Transferable Skills – Surprising ways ministry honed her corporate edge: communication agility, confidence in ambiguity, and winning over diverse audiences.Resilience in Change – Navigating COVID, cross-cultural ministry, relocation, marriage, and parenthood while still growing in her career.Workplace Wisdom – Why integrity, owning mistakes, and simply doing what you say set you apart in high-stakes environments.Connect with Kelly at KellyDelp.com This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit erichoke.substack.com

My new book, The Incongruent Professional, is live! For this week only, Kindle is only $0.99!Episode TakeawaysGod can use even “mind-numbing office jobs” to build skills and character for future callings.Passion alone isn’t enough. Movements and nonprofits need people with real skills and aligned values.Leadership transitions can make or break mission-driven organizations; the wrong hire can tank the mission.Job hopping under 2 years raises red flags; staying 3–5 years builds credibility and trust.Remote, part-time, high-paying jobs are rare; flexibility is usually earned after proving value in person.Healthy organizations develop leaders internally, treat staff well, and reduce turnover by fostering a strong culture.Advanced degrees don’t always guarantee better prospects; experience and mentorship often yield more significant benefits.You can connect with Titus on LinkedIn or his Substack This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit erichoke.substack.com

My new book, The Incongruent Professional, is live! Order your copy (Kindle, Hardcover & Paperback) today. Episode TakeawaysCo-Vocational Calling - Dave serves as both an executive pastor and a fractional HR/operations leader for a construction company. He views this dual calling not as leaving ministry but as expanding it; living in obedience meant offering his skills to businesses as well as churches.Skills Translation & Lifelong Learning - Dave discovered his marketable strengths by paying attention to what people repeatedly came to him for (systems, HR, operations). Pursued certifications (IT, SHRM-CP, OSHA) and used early mornings (5–8 a.m.) to reskill. Learned that translating church skills requires humility, mentors, and conversations with business leaders, not just Google or AI searches.Navigating the Transition - Experienced culture shock moving from ministry to business (e.g., workplace language, different HR standards). Noted that church resumes and secular resumes differ dramatically, and auto-generated Indeed/LinkedIn resumes often fail to represent candidates well.Systems, Time, and Family Priorities - Lives by his calendar as both planner and journal, doing time audits to stay accountable. Emphasizes systems (e.g., Notion, automations) as the foundation for sustainable work, saying: “I exist to make vision sustainable.”Advice for Aspiring Co-Vocational Leaders - Try something small, don’t overthink it Take targeted risks, learn from failures, and keep iterating. Don’t underestimate the value of small businesses and nonprofits, they often need the skills pastors already have.You can learn more about David’s Business at Brock Office Solutions. This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit erichoke.substack.com

My new book, The Incongruent Professional, is available on Amazon in Hardcover, Paperback, and Kindle.Episode Takeaways:From Atheist to Pastor – Justin shares how he became an atheist at 15, moved to Ohio to explore the question of God’s existence, and experienced a transformative spiritual encounter that led him to return to New York to do ministry.Entrepreneurship as Calling, Not Just Career - Justin launched Matera Management (a marketing firm) shortly after college and later co-founded City League Coffee. His ventures weren't just for profit; they were purpose-driven, providing funds for his church plant and serving as community hubs.Ministry and Business Are Not Opposed - Justin critiques the false divide between ministry and entrepreneurship, especially in church culture. Drawing on his experience, he argues that pastors need to understand finances, profit and loss statements (P&Ls), and strategy, not only for stewardship but also to prevent organizational dysfunction.Coffee Shop Ministry - The coffee shop he “accidentally” started began as a workaround to rent space (landlords wouldn’t lease to a church). It became a missional outpost: their first barista, who had joined as an atheist, later came to faith, was baptized, and started his own business.Justin is the Founder of Zion NYC, Mattera Management and Co-Owner of City League Coffee. This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit erichoke.substack.com

My new book, The Incongruent Professional, is live! Order your copy (Kindle, Hardcover & Paperback) at a discounted rate for this week and this week only! Sale ends 9/5/25.Episode Takeaways:Clarity comes after obedience, not before – Sitting in a Wahlburgers with a journal and a question mark ("Church planting?") became the first step toward founding a multi-ethnic church in Minneapolis.Follow the cloud, not the crowd – Tabi’s posture wasn’t “prove it to me, God.” It was: “I’ll walk unless you stop me.” Bivocational doesn’t mean bi-committed – Tabi leads a learning & development team and a church and how having a career actually fueled her ability to plant without financial strain or burnout.The local church and resistance to female pastors - Tabi’s leadership was questioned more inside church walls than in corporate offices. Tabi Horne is the Pastor of The Gathering in Minneapolis. This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit erichoke.substack.com

My new book, The Incongruent Professional, is available for Kindle Pre-Order on Amazon. If you struggle to align your inner world and career, pick up a copy today. Releases in 4 days! Episode Takeaways:* Church planting shapes you as much as you shape the church – Planting in an urban context accelerates leadership growth, humbles you, and forces you to adapt to cultural realities you didn’t anticipate.* Shared leadership is essential in co-vocational ministry. Co-pastoring allows you to split preaching and pastoral duties, avoid burnout, and serve more effectively while holding full-time jobs.* Humility opens doors in multicultural ministry – Letting go of control, honoring cultural differences (even in worship style), and accepting you’re not “the star” can make a ministry more vibrant and healthy.* Urban and suburban ministry have different but equal challenges – Urban ministry faces resource constraints, long commutes, and financial sustainability struggles; suburban ministry can struggle with isolation and engaging people who appear to “have it all.”* Pastoral skills translate into SaaS sales – Empathy, listening, problem-solving, and building relationships proved directly transferable to selling software, leading to strong early success and significant financial stability.You can connect with Stephen on his LinkedIn. This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit erichoke.substack.com

My new book, The Incongruent Professional, is available for Kindle Pre-Order on Amazon. If you struggle to align your inner world (values, beliefs, convictions) and career, pick up a copy today. Releases in 11 days! Doug Black is a multi-passionate entrepreneur, digital strategist, and ministry leader with a knack for solving complex problems and bringing creative visions to life. He is the founder and CEO of Triple Nerd Score, a web development agency that builds websites, web apps, marketing campaigns, and SaaS products for clients ranging from small churches to Fortune 500 companies.He also leads M3Ridian and serves as the lead pastor of McKees Rock Assembly. In all his roles, Doug focuses on blending technical excellence with meaningful impact, helping organizations grow while staying grounded in faith and purposeEpisode Takeaways:Keys to Growing an Agency* Lead with service. Position yourself as a partner solving problems.* Keep overhead minimal; use remote work, AI, and low-cost tools.Lessons Learned Building* Hire slow, fire fast; wrong hires hurt culture.* Screen clients early with “vibe checks” and refer out if not a fit.Faith & Work* Triple Nerd Score is not branded as a “Christian company” to avoid limiting reach; sees all work as sacred.You can connect with Doug on his website This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit erichoke.substack.com

My new book, The Incongruent Professional, is available for Kindle Pre-Order on Amazon. If you struggle to align your inner world and career, pick up a copy today. Releases 9/1/25!Episode Takeaways:Ministry Outside the Mold - Andre shares how traditional church roles didn’t fit his entrepreneurial spirit, leading him to create Barbecue Church—a digital, grassroots ministry reaching thousands through smoked meats and the gospel.The Hidden Cost of Church Staff Roles - He reflects on the emotional and financial toll of leaving a church, revealing how many pastors are left without community, paycheck, or purpose when a role ends.Reaching Men with Real Talk and Real BBQ - Andre's work through the 225 Man initiative and Barbecue Church reframes men’s ministry.Authenticity over Assimilation - He unpacks the challenge of being a Black pastor in predominantly white church contexts, calling out how churches often want the “image” of diversity without embracing diverse voices.Your Calling Doesn’t Fit in a Box - Andre's journey through multiple careers, from youth pastor to parking logistics to diamond sales, illustrates that calling is layered, and faithfulness doesn’t always look like a 9-to-5 job in a church office.You can learn more about Andre’s Ministry at BBQ Church. This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit erichoke.substack.com

Are you an Incongruent Professional? Take my Free Assessment and find out where you are out of whack.Episode Takeaways:Running a Small Business Is More Than Doing the Craft - Many aspiring entrepreneurs think they can turn a skill into a business. But as Sierra learned from running a plumbing company with her husband, being good at the craft isn’t enough. Administrative duties, invoicing, scheduling, licensing, and taxes are often heavier burdens than expected.Know Yourself Before You Leap — Starting a business or side hustle requires self-awareness. Sierra points out that knowing your blind spots, such as time management, communication, or money handling, is crucial. Otherwise, you risk burnout or damaging relationships, especially when working with a spouse.Not All Pivot Years Are Chosen — Sierra’s 2020 included a new baby, the start of pastoral training, and the eventual closure of her business. She didn’t plan that year as a pivot, but embraced it as one. External events (like a pandemic) can catalyze internal transformation if we’re paying attention.There’s Value in Delayed Callings — Sierra didn’t pursue ministry until later in life and in hindsight, her earlier roles in business, marketing, and community leadership prepared her better to shepherd others. Her story shows that starting something meaningful in your 30s or 40s can be a strength, not a setback.God Doesn’t Waste Hard Things — Whether in business failure, infertility, or career transition, Sierra believes deeply in a personal God who shows up in unexpected ways. Her resilience comes from trusting that God redeems suffering even when plans change or dreams are delayed.Follow Sierra’s Work on Substack. This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit erichoke.substack.com

Is your career aligned with your values? Take my free assessment and find out in 3 minutes.Episode TakeawaysMine every season for transferable gold: Even “off-track” jobs are training grounds. Mike shares how banking years prepped him for pastoral work (problem-solving, steadiness, trust). He now treats each role like a field to be mined for skills he can carry forward.Purpose and community can outweigh the paycheck: He walked away from his highest-paying banking role to earn $25,000 in church work with no benefits, because the work felt more meaningful and provided the community he needed in that life chapter.Fail forward: Frustration is raw material for growth. After a painful job misstep, Mike adopted a “this is not the end” mindset (inspired by Failing Forward) and began using even bad decisions as learning fuel. He channels frustration into development instead of getting stuck.Count the real cost of leadership and guard your shadow: People often underestimate the emotional toll of leadership, as you carry others’ gifts, personalities, and pain, while stewarding people, not just hitting metrics. Your strengths can outrun your character if you ignore your shadow side.Calendar your values & do the inner work before saying “yes.” When weighing a CEO role, Mike mapped his real life, including time with God, family (his daughter’s sports), rest, and fun. Ask whether a job would move you toward or away from the person you hope to be at 75-90. You can find Mike on Instagram and Substack This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit erichoke.substack.com

Is your career aligned with your values? Take my free assessment and find out in 3 minutes. amicongruent.comEpisode Takeaways:To succeed in business, pick up the phone. Voice cuts through tone confusion, cools conflict, and signals genuine partnership. If you send a heated text/email, follow up in person to clarify and repair. Make “call first” your default when stakes or emotions rise.For career changers, translate your value when transitioning to a new sector. Honor what you’ve done, but get crystal clear on how success is measured in the new environment (often dollars: revenue up, expenses down). In interviews, skip vague “I’ll add value” claims; instead, ask, “What results will I be judged on, and when will I get feedback?” Normalize impostor feelings & lead with curiosity. Nearly everyone feels stretched when leveling up professionally. Don’t drag yesterday’s solutions into a new context; ask, learn, adapt. Expect some anxiety when you’re building.Why companies should hire non-traditional candidates. Businesses should consider broadening candidate pools beyond standard résumés; diverse backgrounds sharpen teams, provide a competitive edge, and become a meaningful way to give back.You can learn more about Paul and Raven Resources at their website. This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit erichoke.substack.com

Episode Takeaways:Fly Fishing as Spiritual PracticeFly fishing became a deeply spiritual practice for Tim, offering healing, rhythm, stillness, and connection to the divine.The flow state it brings is similar to long drives without music or waiting on a surfboard—moments where the mind slows and the soul speaks.It’s not about catching fish but about slowing down, being present, and finding clarity.What is Spiritual Direction?Spiritual direction is akin to mentoring for the soul—a relationship in which a more seasoned believer walks alongside someone seeking clarity, healing, or deeper intimacy with God.Inspired by the Celtic concept of Anam cara ("soul friend"), a spiritual director listens deeply and helps individuals reflect on their lives and spiritual journeys.It's not therapy or coaching but a form of sacred listening and mirroring that invites transformation.The Role of a "Soul Friend"A soul friend is not your best buddy or pastor, but someone you can be vulnerable and authentic with, without fear of judgment.Tim emphasizes the value of someone “holding up a mirror” to reflect what’s really going on—hence his nickname, “The Velvet Hammer.”First-Half vs. Second-Half of Life FaithMany churches are excellent at supporting the first half of life (identity formation, habits, community), but less so in the second half (questions, mystery, intimacy with God).Spiritual direction helps people in midlife ask: “What now?” when former practices or church structures no longer feel adequate or life-giving.The journey becomes less about formulas and more about art, nuance, and presence.Common Struggles Clients FaceDisenchantment with inherited theology or church structures.Feeling distant from God despite doing all the “right things.”A loss of spiritual vitality or excitement.Questions about whether the spiritual path they’ve been on still fits them.Deconstruction and Re-enchantmentTim encourages people to honor their spiritual past without being bound to it.Faith changes are developmental, not failures.Clients often seek to re-enchant their faith—to experience vitality, awe, and a renewed sense of divine connection.Practices to Reconnect with GodJournaling emotions daily with a sentence on how you feel and why.Daily gratitude or “God sightings”, noticing divine presence in ordinary life.Writing a personal psalm each day to express lament, joy, or frustration.Paying attention to your desires, especially new ones that surface—these may be spiritual breadcrumbs.Theology Checks and “Unsigned Contracts”Many people operate under an unspoken contract with God: “If I do X, God will do Y.” Tim calls this “a contract God didn’t sign.”Letting go of transactional theology is essential for spiritual freedom and maturity.You can follow Tim’s Work at his website. This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit erichoke.substack.com

Takeaways from today’s episode:Leadership & MinistryRelational capital is essential: Trust must be built before meaningful change can occur in any organization.Identity must be rooted in Christ: Healthy pastors don't derive their identity from their performance or congregation.Embrace adaptive leadership: Leaders must discern whether challenges are technical (clear solutions) or adaptive (requiring new thinking and more profound questions).Balcony leadership > Dance floor leadership: Leaders need to step back for perspective instead of constantly reacting on the front lines.Jiu-Jitsu as Professional ParallelsJiu-jitsu fosters humility, trust, and a deep sense of community, making it ideal for individuals in isolating roles, such as ministry or entrepreneurship.It's therapeutic and relational: Many practitioners find healing from social anxiety and develop close bonds.Marital Arts is a surprising model for discipleship: The structured mentorship, mutual accountability, and growth mirror spiritual formation.A powerful self-defense and confidence tool for kids, especially girls.Productivity & StrategyHustle isn’t sustainable: Ministry leaders must shift from a focus on hustle to a strategy-driven approach.Strategic productivity is key: Know what to focus on, when to rest, and when to push.Reactive leadership burns you out; responsive leadership builds stability.Slower, deeper work leads to sustainable growth, especially in post-COVID churches.Writing & Publishing: Self-publishing is a powerful tool: It allows for speed, ownership, and creating a legacy of practical, useful books.Think library, not masterpiece: Build a body of helpful content over time instead of aiming for a single magnum opus.Books are stepping stones, not capstones: Writing helps clarify and share what you’re already learning.You can find Chad on X/Twitter (@revchadbrooks) or Substack at Chad Brooks. His website is www.revchadbrooks.com Be sure to pick up his new book, “Is My Church Healthy?” This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit erichoke.substack.com

Takeaways on how to change industries:Networking (80% of effort): Spend 8 out of 10 weekly hours networking by connecting with industry professionals through coffee meetings, mutual connections, or local organizations like the Chamber of Commerce, PMI, or SHRM. Personal connections significantly increase the chances of getting interviews and job offers.Reskilling (10% of effort): Dedicate 1 hour to learning industry-relevant skills through affordable platforms like Coursera. Certifications in fields like Project Management or Data Analytics can demonstrate proactivity and help you stand out.Job Applications (10% of effort): Spend 1 hour perusing job boards, such as LinkedIn or Indeed, and tailor resumes for each role. Avoid "spray and pray" tactics, as they are inefficient. This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit erichoke.substack.com

Takeaways:Question 1: How can I network without being awkward? * Provide value first: Instead of asking for a job outright, offer something valuable, such as a free service or a coffee meeting that you pay for to build a connection. Give, then ask.* Find common ground: Use warm introductions through mutual connections (e.g., via LinkedIn) to make networking less cold and more comfortable.* Be clear about your goals: Clearly articulate your skills, desired role, and industry to make it easier for others to help you, avoiding vague requests like “any job openings?”Question 2: Why am I not getting past first-round interviews? * Do your research: Thoroughly understand the company’s operations, clients, and goals before the interview to show preparedness.* Solve their problem: Clearly articulate how your skills address the company’s specific needs, aligning your experience with the job’s requirements.* Nail the elevator pitch: You can prepare a concise 60-90-second summary of your professional background, skills, and how they align with the role, while avoiding any personal details.* Build rapport early: When asked “How are you?”, share a brief, personable response (e.g., weekend plans) to create a connection with the interviewer.* Ask thoughtful questions: End the interview by asking, “Is there anything you’d like me to expand on?” to show openness and invite further discussion.* Send a follow-up: Write a brief thank-you email or, if possible, a handwritten note to leave a lasting impression.Do you have questions that you’d like me to address on the AMA version of this podcast? If so, e-mail me - [email protected] or respond to this post. This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit erichoke.substack.com

Key Takeaways from today’s episode:* Calling Through Crisis:* After years in ministry, Anthony found himself disillusioned with the performance-driven model of the church. The pandemic triggered a personal and professional re-evaluation that led him to leave traditional ministry.* From Stage to Studio:* With a background in music production (as part of AC & Brady, with millions of streams), Anthony channeled his creative passion into launching 1010 Creative, a content agency serving mission-driven brands and small businesses.* The Limitations of Big Church Metrics:* Anthony vulnerably shares how his initial goal—building the “biggest youth ministry”—became an idol. Despite drawing large crowds, he recognized the need for sustainable discipleship and formation.* Missional Communities as a Future Church Expression:* Inspired by a more relational and incarnational model, Anthony now dreams of planting missional communities on Long Island that make disciples in everyday spaces—such as dinner tables and delis—rather than on large stages.* Entrepreneurship as Calling:* When job opportunities dried up, Anthony drew on his entrepreneurial instincts, learning to build a business that aligned with his calling while supporting his family outside of traditional church paychecks.* Rooted Vision for Long Island:* Anthony feels called back to his hometown—one of the most unreached and spiritually apathetic regions in America—to be a missionary and build culture-shaping communities and businesses.* Content with a Mission:* Through 1010 Creative, Anthony helps local businesses grow by creating strategic content marketing that generates leads, attracts customers, and tells authentic brand stories.You can connect with Anthony on YouTube, on Instagram @AnthonyCarraiJr, and his business Ten Ten Creative.Thanks for listening. If you have questions you’d like me to cover on this podcast, reply to this e-mail or DM me. Jeffrey Riggs produced this podcast episode.Music by Fyodor Zharkov from Pixabay This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit erichoke.substack.com

Key Takeaways from today’s episode:* Friendship and Adult Connection:We reflect on our deep friendship, how it has grown, and the intentionality required to maintain meaningful relationships as adults, particularly among men. Macho shares his background as a loner and how adulthood has allowed him to build lasting friendships.* Life Transitions and Calling:Macho discusses his and his family's major life moves—from Pittsburgh to Georgia and eventually to New York City. He recounts a pivotal moment when he sensed an unexpected call to return to NYC despite having just settled elsewhere, describing a process of discernment, prayer, and confirmation through the community.* Church Planting Journey:He shares the origin story of planting The Table NYC, a diverse faith community in Queens. Initially resistant to leading a church, Macho explains how events and growing leadership opportunities led him and his wife to recognize the call to plant a church. Their approach began with dinner gatherings in their apartment to build community organically.* Bivocational Ministry:Macho talks about the challenges and benefits of being bivocational—working in IT while leading a church. He distinguishes between bivocationalism as a necessity and strategy, ultimately embracing it as the latter. He reflects on how working outside the church has kept him connected to the broader community and how this model has become a sustainable way to live out his calling in an expensive city like New York.* Faithfulness in Uncertainty:The conversation ends with Macho discussing how he remains faithful through uncertainty, especially amid recent personal health challenges. He emphasizes learning to shorten his time in frustration and doubt, trusting in God's past faithfulness to sustain him through present struggles.Ways to Connect:Listeners can follow Macho’s writing at macholara.substack.com or find him by searching online. His church, The Table NYC, is based in Sunnyside, Queens.Macho is currently launching a Kickstarter for his forthcoming book, Ctrl+Alt➔Believe, I encourage you to support here.Thanks for listening. If you have questions you’d like me to cover on this podcast, reply to this e-mail or DM me. Jeffrey Riggs produced this podcast episode.Music by Fyodor Zharkov from Pixabay This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit erichoke.substack.com

Today’s Special Edition of “Your Best Work: The Podcast” is audio from Covo Con with Dr. Kevin Middleton and Covocational Ministry in the Black Church. Here are some practical takeaways.* Blend Marketplace and Ministry Skills* Pursue practical, marketable skills alongside ministry training. This dual approach provides financial stability and resilience, as seen during crises like COVID, and reflects Middleton’s pastor’s wisdom: “Bible doesn’t pay the bills, skills and marketplace degrees will.”* Embrace Shared Leadership* Move away from the solo-pastor model by identifying and empowering congregants’ gifts (e.g., through conversations or tools like the APES framework: Apostles, Prophets, Evangelists, Shepherds, Teachers). Delegate responsibilities to build a collaborative, sustainable church structure.* Prioritize Personal Health and Balance* Implement regular self-care practices: weekly therapy, monthly spiritual direction, a consistent Sabbath, and hobbies (e.g., gaming, hiking). Middleton’s use of a Google calendar to create margin and limit unnecessary meetings helps maintain sanity and vitality.* Engage Younger Generations Holistically* Recognize that Millennials and Gen Z value meaningful work outside traditional church roles (e.g., nonprofits, justice initiatives). Equip them to see all vocations as holy, fostering a church culture that integrates faith and daily life rather than competing with platforms like TikTok for influence.* Cultivate a Covocational Framework* Build a church culture where everyone’s calling is supported, not just the pastor’s. Host events like job fairs or faith-and-work series to affirm congregants’ marketplace roles, ensuring the church doesn’t stifle individuality but mobilizes it for mission.* Avoid the Celebrity Pastor Trap* Reject the mindset of being the sole decision-maker. Share responsibility to prevent burnout, enhance accountability, and ensure the church thrives beyond any single leader’s tenure, as Middleton illustrates with biblical examples like Moses and Jesus.* Have Fun and Stay Human* Incorporate enjoyment into ministry life (e.g., playing Mario Kart, walking in nature). Following Eugene Peterson’s advice to not take oneself too seriously, find hobbies and community moments that ground you and refresh your perspective.This Substack is reader-supported. To receive new posts and support my work, consider becoming a free or paid subscriber. This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit erichoke.substack.com

Section 1: Using AI in Job Seeking:I answer the question of a listener struggling to choose a job, get callbacks, pivot industries, and ask how to use AI effectively. * Treat AI as a Career Guide: Input your resume, skills, and interests into AI tools (e.g., ChatGPT or Grok) to get tailored job suggestions or rewrites. Ask questions like, “What jobs suit my skills?” or “How should I rewrite my resume for this role?”* Optimize for ATS (Applicant Tracking Systems): Copy a job description into AI, identify the top 10-20 keywords, and naturally embed them in your resume to improve visibility to recruiters. Avoid gaming the system (e.g., using hidden keywords).* Use AI as an Interview Coach: Paste a job description into AI and request 10 sample interview questions. Practice answering them, record responses, and ask AI for feedback to refine your answers.* Get Resume Feedback: Upload your resume to AI and ask for feedback on clarity, grammar, and redundancy to polish it.* Note: AI is ~80% accurate, so use it as a starting point and validate with professionals or industry peers for the remaining 20%.Section 2. How to write a book in Three Days:A listener with limited idea for a book asks me how I wrote a 40,000-word book in three days:* Preparation is Key: Over months, I outlined the book’s chapters, ideas, and stories in notebooks early in the morning. This created a “skeleton” before a writing retreat.* Distraction-Free Retreat: I wrote my manuscript over three days at Mount Savior Monastery (no Wi-Fi, spotty cell service). The monastery’s prayer schedule provided natural breaks every 2-3 hours, boosting focus.* Tools for Editing: Post-retreat, I used Grammarly (premium version) to fix over 2,000+ grammatical errors, spending ~20 hours refining the “crappy first draft.”* Book Details: The book, a hybrid of fiction and self-help, focuses on vocation, calling, and identity. Patrick Lencioni’s fable-style leadership books inspired it. It’s currently being queried for traditional or hybrid publishing.* Advice for Busy Writers: Jot ideas in notebooks over months, block a 3-day distraction-free retreat, and use tools like Grammarly for editing.Thanks for listening. If you have questions you’d like me to cover on this podcast, reply to this e-mail or DM me. Jeffrey Riggs produced this podcast episode.Music by Fyodor Zharkov from Pixabay This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit erichoke.substack.com

Today’s Special Edition of “Your Best Work: The Podcast” is audio from Covo Con with Keith Roseboro on Job Interview Tips. Here are some practical takeaways.Practical Takeaways* Identify and Translate Transferable Skills* Reflect on ministry experiences to pinpoint skills like leadership (managing volunteers), public speaking (delivering sermons), and counseling. Reframe these on your resume with corporate terms, e.g., “Led a team of volunteers for community outreach” becomes “Managed a team to execute community engagement initiatives, enhancing participation.”* Ditch Churchy Language for Broad Appeal* Avoid jargon like “evangelism” or “congregants” when speaking to recruiters unfamiliar with ministry. Instead, use terms like “community engagement” or “stakeholders” to make your experience relatable and professional, ensuring it resonates with diverse hiring managers.* Master LinkedIn for Networking* Build a complete, professional LinkedIn profile with a headshot, headline, and detailed experience. Engage actively by posting, commenting, joining groups (e.g., career or interest-based), and connecting strategically with personalized messages. Avoid passive use or spammy outreach—cultivate lasting relationships.* Prepare for Marketplace Interviews* Research the company’s mission and culture (e.g., via LinkedIn, Glassdoor) to show fit. Use the STAR method (Situation, Task, Action, Result) to answer behavioral questions, like handling a difficult person, drawing from ministry examples. Always ask insightful questions (e.g., “What’s the team dynamic?”) to demonstrate engagement.* Flex Your Achievements Confidently* Overcome ministry-trained humility by quantifying accomplishments on resumes and in interviews (e.g., “Impacted 250 people, with 20 joining our community”). Highlight your unique value, like volunteer coordination, to stand out to recruiters.* Adapt to a Tight Job Market* Optimize your online presence on platforms like Indeed and LinkedIn, as paper resumes are obsolete. Be open to temp or freelance roles to gain experience and potentially secure long-term positions. Connect with staffing agencies for support.* Stay Persistent and Positive* Job hunting is a marathon, not a sprint—especially in a tough economy. Leverage your network (e.g., peers from events like Covo Con) and maintain optimism, recognizing that consistent effort will eventually yield opportunities tailored to your skills.This Substack is reader-supported. To receive new posts and support my work, consider becoming a free or paid subscriber. This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit erichoke.substack.com

Part 1: Why I Left TwitterAfter 100 days off Twitter, I reflected on why I decided to step away:* I was tired of the persona.I realized I was developing an inauthentic, one-dimensional version of myself on social media. People liked "Twitter Eric," not the whole me. That wasn’t the legacy I wanted to leave behind.* The negativity wore me down.Trolls, haters, and anonymous accounts became exhausting. Waking up to dozens of comments—some nasty—started my days with stress. The tipping point was when a tweet I wrote was taken out of context and dragged on Facebook by strangers who never even spoke to me.* God prompted me to step away.In prayer at a Benedictine monastery, I clearly sensed the Lord telling me to leave Twitter. It took me nine months to obey, but I’m better for it.* I want my legacy to be deeper than social media.I don’t want my kids to remember me as “really popular online.” I want them to remember me for my presence, not my posts.* Life without Twitter is better.I spend less time online and more time creating meaningful, high-quality content on Substack and this podcast. Surprisingly, my work hasn’t suffered—in fact, I've gotten more opportunities.Part 2: When Is It Time to Quit Your Job?I tackled a listener’s tricky question about discerning when to leave a job. Here’s how I responded:* Quit when staying harms your professional growth or personal integrity.If a job makes me a worse spouse, parent, friend, or version of myself, it’s time to go.* Please do your diligence.I always research prospective employers (Glassdoor, LinkedIn outreach, etc.), ask bold interview questions, and check the culture to avoid jumping from one bad situation to another.* Accept the idea of a bridge job.The next role might not be perfect—it could be a stepping stone. One-year stints won’t hurt my resume if I’ve shown long-term loyalty in the past.* Leave well—don’t burn bridges.I’ve returned to previous employers because I left with grace. I try to remember: the foot I step on today might be attached to the butt I have to kiss tomorrow.* Always have a solid exit plan.Whether it's savings, a new offer in hand, or a supportive spouse, I make sure the logistics are lined up before I make a move—especially if others rely on me financially.Final ThoughtsI’m building a life and career that reflects who I truly am—not who I pretended to be online. And I want to help others do the same. Thanks for walking this journey of vocation, calling, and identity with me.If you're on the edge of a decision like this, I hope my story helps you take the next right step.This podcast episode was produced by Jeffrey Riggs.Music by Fyodor Zharkov from Pixabay This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit erichoke.substack.com

Big Ideas & Key Takeaways from the Podcast "Where Will Our Next Pastor Come From?"* The Future of Pastoral Leadership Is Uncertain* There's a growing clergy shortage, with more pastors over 65 than under 40.* Churches are struggling to fill pulpits, requiring a reevaluation of leadership development.* New Leadership Models Are Emerging* Younger leaders are resistant to traditional CEO-style pastoral roles.* They prefer collaborative leadership, team-based models, and flexible ministry pathways.* Many see ministry as integrated into everyday life rather than a full-time, church-centered profession.* Bi-Vocational & Co-Vocational Ministry Is the Present and Future* Financial and cultural shifts make it harder for churches to fully fund pastors.* More leaders are keeping marketplace jobs while serving in ministry.* This model aligns with younger generations' preference for side hustles and flexibility.* The Church Must Rethink Seminary Education* Theological education is vital but needs to be more accessible and practical.* Training should integrate more real-world engagement rather than isolating students in academic settings.* Leadership pipelines should start in the local church, not just in formal institutions.* A Shift in Discipleship & Evangelism Strategy* Many aspiring leaders don’t resonate with traditional church structures.* They want to live missionally in their neighborhoods rather than “run” a church.* The church must empower everyday believers to disciple and lead without requiring them to become full-time pastors.* Institutional & Denominational Challenges* Some denominations struggle to adapt, leading to a decline in traditional pathways to ministry.* A growing number of ex-evangelicals are exploring liturgical traditions but find them politically charged.* There’s a need for new models that balance theological depth with mission-driven flexibility.* Finding & Developing the Next Generation of Leaders* Pastors should focus on identifying people of character, not just traditional leadership skills.* Leadership development should happen organically—through mentorship, discipleship, and real-life ministry opportunities.* Churches already have potential leaders within them; they just need to be nurtured and empowered.* Economic & Structural Changes Are Forcing Innovation* The traditional full-time pastor model is fading due to economic realities.* Large churches may dominate in the short term, but micro-expressions of church are growing.* Future ministry models will likely require creative financial sustainability, with pastors working in both church and marketplace settings.As always, thanks for listening, and if you have questions you’d like me to address on the podcast - simply reply to this e-mail. This Substack is reader-supported. To receive new posts and support my work, consider becoming a free or paid subscriber. This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit erichoke.substack.com

Here are the main takeaways from Episode 5 of Your Best Work Podcast:Here are the main takeaways from **Episode 5** of *Your Best Work Podcast* hosted by Eric Hoke:1. Different Motivations: - Pastors/ministry leaders tend to be people-driven. - Business leaders tend to be outcome-driven.2. Hiring Approaches: - Ministry leaders often rely on intuition, choosing people they like—those who are charismatic, likable, and easy to get along with. - Business leaders tend to overlook personal qualities if someone is highly competent or brings unique value—even if that person is difficult to work with.3. Consequences of These Approaches: - Churches often promote people who are pleasant but not always the most capable. - Businesses often tolerate brilliant but toxic individuals, which can be corrosive to team culture.4. Mutual Lessons for both groups: - Church leaders can learn from business leaders about using objective outcomes and performance indicators to guide decisions. - Business leaders can learn from church leaders about valuing collaboration, kindness, and people skills as much as output.This podcast episode was produced by Jeffrey Riggs.Music by Fyodor Zharkov from PixabayIf you have questions on calling, vocation and identity that you’d like me to address on this platform, just respond to this e-mail and I’d be happy to answer. This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit erichoke.substack.com

Today’s Special Edition of “Your Best Work: The Podcast” features audio from Covo Con with Jon Rush. We discuss the next generation of leaders, side hustles, and embracing your weirdness in ministry. * Co-Vocational Ministry is Financially and Spiritually Sustainable – Jon Rush embraced co-vocational ministry after realizing that relying solely on a church salary wasn’t financially viable for his growing family. Having multiple income streams allows pastors to serve without financial strain.* Embracing Your Inner "Misfit" Can Lead to Effective Ministry – John reaches people who feel like outcasts, primarily through gaming and online spaces. He encourages embracing what makes you unique and connecting with those who might not fit into traditional church settings.* Gen Z and Gen Alpha Respond to Co-Vocational Leaders – Younger generations value flexibility and entrepreneurship. Seeing pastors who work in both ministry and the marketplace makes faith more relatable and accessible to them.* Authenticity and Niche Focus Are Key – Instead of being a generic "consultant" or "thought leader," Jon found success by focusing on his specific passions—youth ministry and video games. Pastors looking for side income should lean into their expertise and interests rather than chasing trends.* Being Co-Vocational Increases Ministry Freedom – John believes that additional income streams allow pastors to take roles where they feel called, rather than being forced into positions based on financial need. This also helps churches allocate more resources to outreach instead of salaries.* Relationships Matter More Than Networking – Building real relationships, rather than transactional networking, leads to genuine opportunities. John intentionally connects with people on social media in an organic way, which has led to unexpected ministry and business opportunities.* Ministry Should Engage with Culture, Not Avoid It – John leverages gaming culture to build a ministry, even organizing a communion service in Fortnite. Engaging with cultural trends rather than dismissing them helps reach people where they are.* Know and Serve the Next Generation – The best way to reach Gen Z and Gen Alpha isn’t through statistics and spending time with them. Instead of overanalyzing data, church leaders should invest in genuine relationships with young people.* Financial Stability Helps Long-Term Ministry – Co-vocational pastors avoid burnout by having multiple income sources, ensuring they can continue serving even if church finances change.* The Future of Ministry is Bi-Vocational and Digital – Jon sees digital platforms as a mission field. He encourages pastors to embrace online ministry, social media, and content creation as legitimate ways to disciple people.If you have questions on calling, vocation and identity that you’d like me to address on this platform, just respond to this e-mail and I’d be happy to answer. This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit erichoke.substack.com

Asking for a Raise When It’s Not Raise SeasonThis question was asked by someone who’s taken on extra work after a team member’s departure and wants to request a raise without seeming ungrateful:* Frame It as Contribution: Approach your boss with a solution, not a complaint. “I’ve handled Ken’s tasks for six months—could we nest their roles into my job description permanently?”* Extend Value, Not Demands: Highlight benefits to the company. “This could save hiring costs; I’d like to discuss fair compensation for the added scope.”* Market Test Yourself: Apply for other jobs every 3-5 years to know your worth—use offers to negotiate thoughtfully or switch if better.* Avoid Ultimatums: Don’t say “match this or I’m gone”; try “I’d prefer to stay—how can my growth here align with this offer?”* Build on Trust: Ensure a strong relationship with your manager, as leveraging external offers can risk trust if mishandled.* Increase Earning with Impact: More contribution justifies more pay—don’t ask for a raise without adding value first.Hiring a Spiritual Director for Life TransitionsA reader those curious about my decision to hire a spiritual director and how it differs from a pastor or therapist:* Seek Faith-Focused Guidance: Hire a spiritual director for major transitions (e.g., my move from New York to Pennsylvania) to discern God’s role in my transitions.* Define Your Need: Therapy digs into mental health; spiritual direction deepens faith and purpose—I chose it for a Christ-centered focus over self-focus.* Plan Midlife Intentionally: At 37, nearing half my lifespan, I used a director to shape my 40s-70s purposefully, inspired by Richard Rohr’s work.* Differentiate from Pastors: Pastors equip congregations, not individuals one-on-one long-term—their role as broader than personal direction.* Find the Right Fit: Unlike therapy’s mixed results, spiritual director Tim Pynes offers tailored, ongoing support twice monthly.* Explore for Yourself: If intrigued, research spiritual direction—it’s distinct from therapy’s coping tools or a pastor’s community leadership.This podcast episode was produced by Jeffrey Riggs.Music by Fyodor Zharkov from PixabayMy Spiritual Director is Tim PynesAs always, thanks for listening, and if you have questions you’d like me to address on the podcast - simply reply to this e-mail. This Substack is reader-supported. To receive new posts and support my work, consider becoming a free or paid subscriber. This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit erichoke.substack.com

Today’s Special Edition of “Your Best Work: The Podcast” is audio from Covo Con with Dr. Eun Strawser as we talk Shared Leadership. Here are some practical takeaways.* Shared Leadership is Essential – Ministry was never meant to be done alone. Eun Strasser emphasizes the importance of decentralizing leadership and empowering others to take ownership in the church.* Co-Vocational vs. Bi-Vocational Ministry – Co-vocational ministry is an intentional choice to remain financially independent from the church, whereas bi-vocational ministry is often a funding strategy. Co-vocational leaders demonstrate that discipleship isn't reserved for full-time clergy.* Discipleship Must Be Intentional – True discipleship isn’t about drawing crowds but about forming committed followers of Jesus who, in turn, disciple others. A smaller, deeper focus leads to greater long-term impact.* The Four Spaces of Belonging Matter – Discipleship happens in different contexts:* Intimate Space (3-4 people): Best for deep vulnerability and personal growth.* Personal Space (5-12 people): Best for learning and developing discipleship skills.* Social Space (20-50 people): Creates a sense of belonging and shared purpose.* Public Space (70+ people): Best for proclamation and making faith visible.* Missional Communities Multiply Effectively – Instead of a traditional church model, Eun’s church plants focus on missional communities, small groups deeply engaged in their neighborhoods. Their model grew from 12 people to 9 communities serving over 650 people.* Church is More Than Sunday Services – Many churches focus on attendance, but the true measure of success is whether a community is being transformed. Eun’s team prioritized serving the vulnerable, which led to long-term impact beyond a worship gathering.* Faith in Action Speaks Louder Than Words – During the pandemic, instead of trying to “pivot online,” her church asked, “Who needs help?” They fed 500 seniors monthly and created a sustainable model of discipleship through service.* Public Worship Should Engage the Community – Instead of traditional services, their church holds public gatherings that address societal issues, such as honoring marginalized groups and contending with systemic injustices.* Jesus’ Model of Leadership is Worth Following – Eun intentionally invests in a small group of disciples, just as Jesus did. By focusing deeply on a few, she has seen exponential multiplication in leadership and community impact.* Anyone Can Be a Disciple-Maker – The work of discipleship isn’t limited to pastors; every follower of Jesus is called to make disciples, regardless of their job or title.If you have questions on calling, vocation and identity that you’d like me to address on this platform, just respond to this e-mail and I’d be happy to answer. This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit erichoke.substack.com

Today’s episode of “Your Best Work: The Podcast” I am fielding your questions regarding how to stand out as a content creator and and creative ways to fund your church plant. Here is the highlights:How to Stand Out as a Content CreatorIf you want to write a book and build an audience, these strategies can help:* Find Your Niche: There are "riches in niches." Be very specific about who you're trying to reach.* Leverage Personal Experience: Identify a challenge you’ve overcome and serve those who need that guidance.* Prioritize Consistency Over Quality: Posting frequently matters more than perfect content.* Repurpose Content Across Platforms: One podcast can be turned into multiple social media posts, articles, and videos.* Build Community, Not Just Content: Engage with your audience rather than just pushing out content.* Grow an Email List: Emails are 50x more valuable than social media followers. Offer something free in exchange for sign-ups.2. Funding a Church Plant in a High-Cost AreaFor an aspiring church planter wondering whether to quit their job:* Don’t Quit Your Job Too Soon: Many church planters struggle financially when they jump in full-time too early.* Bi-Vocational Model: Keep a job while growing the church, though this method has limitations.* Fundraising Approach: Treat church planting like missionary work, raising funds from churches and individuals.* Creative Funding Model (Preferred Approach): Diversify revenue streams:* High-flexibility job for steady income.* Internal giving from the congregation.* Support from individuals and churches.* Grants and denominational backing.* Renting church space for community services.If you have questions on calling, vocation and identity that you’d like me to address on this platform, just respond to this e-mail and I’d be happy to answer.This Substack is reader-supported. To receive new posts and support my work, consider becoming a free or paid subscriber. This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit erichoke.substack.com

Highlights & Practical Takeaways from the How to Detox without Deconstructing:Main Themes:* Detox Without Deconstruction:* The conversation focuses on how pastors can transition out of ministry (or into a new phase of ministry) without losing their faith.* Detoxing from unhealthy aspects of ministry is different from fully deconstructing and abandoning faith.* Identity & Vocation:* Many pastors tie their identity to their role, making transitions difficult.* Guy shares how he had to redefine his identity beyond being a senior pastor.* Navigating Career Transitions:* Pastors often wrestle with vocational shifts but fear losing purpose.* The Patterson Life Plan was a pivotal tool in guiding Guy through career changes.* Church Planting Realities:* The romanticized vision of church planting often doesn’t align with reality.* The heartbreak of not seeing expected growth can lead to grief and even bitterness.* Challenges in the Modern Church Model:* Traditional church structures (financial models, leadership hierarchies) often hinder effectiveness.* Guy now prefers micro-church and community-driven models over large, attractional churches.* Finding Community After Leaving Ministry:* One of the biggest struggles after stepping away from full-time ministry is finding deep, meaningful community.* Many former pastors realize how much of their social life was built into their pastoral role.Practical Takeaways:* Reassess Your Calling Regularly:* Ministry doesn’t have to be tied to a local church staff position.* God’s calling may include work outside traditional church settings.* Prioritize Identity in Christ Over Role:* A role change doesn’t mean a loss of worth.* Be intentional about defining identity beyond “Pastor [Your Name].”* Expect Grief in Transition:* Leaving ministry can feel like a major loss.* Take time to process it healthily—don’t let grief turn into bitterness.* Invest in a Support System Early:* Build relationships outside of your ministry role before transitioning.* This prevents feelings of isolation when you leave a church position.* Consider a Life Plan Process:* Guy highly recommends structured life-planning frameworks to help with major transitions.* Having a coach or mentor to guide decision-making is invaluable.* Explore Alternative Church Models:* If traditional church leadership feels restrictive, microchurch or polycentric leadership structures might be a better fit.* Ministry can happen in new and innovative ways.* Be Mindful of Deconstruction vs. Detox:* Removing toxic elements of ministry (burnout, unrealistic expectations) is necessary.* But avoid throwing away faith altogether—healing and refining are possible.If you want to stay in touch with Guy or are interested in his services as a Certified LifePlan Facilitator, his e-mail is [email protected] always, thanks for listening, and if you have questions you’d like me to address on the podcast - e-mail me at [email protected] Substack is reader-supported. To receive new posts and support my work, consider becoming a free or paid subscriber. This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit erichoke.substack.com

Thank you so much for everyone who listened to and supported my debut podcasts last week (and for your feedback on making the audio better, I asked for a podcast mic for my birthday):Today’s episode is your questions answered, and here were the questions I was asked and aimed to answer:How do you ensure you don’t feel at your side hustle?* Failure is likely in early stages; expect to pivot rather than quit.* Start small with minimal risk before scaling up.* Reframe failure as an opportunity to iterate and improve.* Don’t let fear of others' opinions stop you from trying.How has prayer played a role in your side hustle?* Avoid using prayer as a form of procrastination—"When you pray, move your feet."* Balance introspection (alone time) with seeking counsel from mentors and peers.* Side hustles require perseverance; expect challenges and sacrifices.* Your work and struggles refine your character rather than define you.Takeaways:* Start small, test ideas, and iterate.* Don’t overthink—take action and learn from failure.* Use prayer for guidance, but don’t let it stall your progress.* Lean on mentors and community for direction.* Expect hardships as part of meaningful work.As always, thanks for listening, and if you have questions you’d like me to address on the podcast - simply reply to this e-mail. This Substack is reader-supported. To receive new posts and support my work, consider becoming a free or paid subscriber. This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit erichoke.substack.com

Today’s episode of “Your Best Work: The Podcast” I am fielding your questions regarding side hustles and how to find a mentor.Question 1: What kind of Side Hustle should I do? * Avoid generic side hustles (Uber Eats, barista jobs) and instead, leverage existing skills from your full-time job.* Identify what comes naturally to you and what people are already willing to pay for.* Example: If you’re skilled in operations, consider becoming a wedding coordinator as a niche, high-value side hustle. Call it Hitched without a Hitch!* Start small and focus on monetizing what you do best rather than taking on unrelated work.Question 2: How can I find a mentor? * Set realistic expectations—mentors are not therapists or lifelong guides.* Seek advice from people a year or two ahead of you, rather than high-profile experts.* Be specific in your requests; a quick email exchange can be more impactful than a formal mentorship.* Sometimes, mentorship is worth paying for, especially in areas like executive coaching or skill development.Takeaways:* Choose a side hustle that builds on your existing strengths.* Think strategically—don’t just trade time for money.* Mentorship is valuable, but keep your expectations reasonable.* Invest in guidance when needed—sometimes, paying for mentorship is the best move.If you have questions on calling, vocation and identity that you’d like me to address on this platform, just respond to this e-mail and I’d be happy to answer. This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit erichoke.substack.com